Haliburton, Tatum, Lillard torn Achilles: freak accidents or noteworthy trend?

[beasted]

This playoffs we've had 3 of the top 25 players in the league all go down with a torn achilles.

What do you make of it? Trend related to low top sneakers? Is this a call for the NBA to re-allow load management? Shorten the regular season? Is this a curse associated with the #0 jersey number? Or is this something else?

[1987_Lakers]

Crazy how we had so many days off in between the Finals, but you still have a player tear his Achilles in the 7th game.

All these rest days in the Finals were brutal. It killed a lot of the fun, wasn't as hyped to watch a game when the previous game seemed like it happened a week ago.

[ArbitraryWater]

why is it always lightskin players

[tpols]

I think they get hurt more than in the 90s because its more of a speed game today. The pace is more frantic in general and these are running issues. If you look in the 90s stars almost always survived playoff runs and played all 82. Now we have a cascade of injuries every single year. Dudes might just be softer too.

[ArbitraryWater]

I think they get hurt more than in the 90s because its more of a speed game today. The pace is more frantic in general and these are running issues. If you look in the 90s stars almost always survived playoff runs and played all 82. Now we have a cascade of injuries every single year. Dudes might just be softer too.

:oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

why is it always lightskin players
All light skinned, all wear number 0 too.

[ArbitraryWater]

All light skinned, all wear number 0 too.

And the prev ones, PG, Kobe(kinda light skinned), KD not. Who else?

[tpols]

Reggie was light skin and he was ****ing beast longevity wise. Big runner too so he was moving those legs and Achilles.

[beasted]

I think they get hurt more than in the 90s because its more of a speed game today. The pace is more frantic in general and these are running issues. If you look in the 90s stars almost always survived playoff runs and played all 82. Now we have a cascade of injuries every single year. Dudes might just be softer too.

By comparison, NBA players seem like they are 10x more likely to tear their achilles than say a tennis player. NBA players play 67 games per regular season on average and pro tennis players 60-80 matches per year on average. NBA starters run 2-2.5 miles on average vs Tennis players 1.5-3 miles on average. There is more sharp changes in direction I think in tennis, but to be fair, they don't have the jumping element in their game and are not 6'3"+ on average weighing 200+ lbs.

I think the NBA should shorten the meaningless regular season, hinestly.

[ArbitraryWater]

Tennis players never have achilles injuries.

Its usually back, shoulder, wrist.. something like that. actually abs often too. oblique. Its kinda full body, achilles injuries are a specific basketball thing no?

I cant remember many in soccer having them.

[tpols]

By comparison, NBA players seem like they are 10x more likely to tear their achilles than say a tennis player. NBA players play 67 games per regular season on average and pro tennis players 60-80 matches per year on average. NBA starters run 2-2.5 miles on average vs Tennis players 1.5-3 miles on average. There is more sharp changes in direction I think in tennis, but to be fair, they don't have the jumping element in their game and are not 6'3"+ on average weighing 200+ lbs.

I think the NBA should shorten the meaningless regular season, hinestly.

I dont know if extra rest is going to fix it. They gave Haliburton tons of rest and it still happened. Tatum too. Dame as well was out resting for a while before it happened. Dudes are just softer.

[beasted]

Tennis players never have achilles injuries.

Its usually back, shoulder, wrist.. something like that. actually abs often too. oblique. Its kinda full body, achilles injuries are a specific basketball thing no?

I cant remember many in soccer having them.

Seems so, this what I found on the topic:

Higher Incidence in Basketball: Studies show that basketball is a much more common cause of Achilles tendon ruptures, especially in younger athletes. One study reported that basketball accounted for a significantly higher percentage of Achilles ruptures compared to tennis.

Sport-Specific Movements: Basketball often involves more explosive movements like jumping and sudden changes of direction, which put a greater strain on the Achilles tendon. Tennis also involves these movements but perhaps to a lesser degree than in basketball.

Study Data: According to one study, basketball was responsible for a large percentage of sport-related Achilles tendon ruptures, while tennis accounted for a smaller proportion.

[GOBB]

Less games doesn’t solve the problem. The fact Haliburton played on an injured calf. You could’ve placed a bet that he would’ve blown his Achilles. That was one of the risks. Players sneakers could be a reason. There’s a lot of factors. No one size fits all.

[Baller234]

Less games doesn’t solve the problem. The fact Haliburton played on an injured calf. You could’ve placed a bet that he would’ve blown his Achilles. That was one of the risks. Players sneakers could be a reason. There’s a lot of factors. No one size fits all.

How can you say that? Less games means less strain.

As a fan I don't remember the last time injuries were this frequent, so something has changed. Chalk it up to whatever you want. The training, the conditioning, the frantic speed at which the game is played, the softness of the players...

... fact is the season is bloated as it is. It's long and boring and half the league makes it to the playoffs anyway. Might as well trim the games down and make each game count more. Plus it may help the injury problem. It's a win win.

[Im Still Ballin]

Modern style of play = more lateral movements & changes of direction, resulting in more acute joint angles of the ankle, knee, and hip. Less about pace and more about how players are moving around the court to cover the three-point line and dribble penetration.

[tpols]

Modern style of play = more lateral movements & changes of direction, resulting in more acute joint angles of the ankle, knee, and hip. Less about pace and more about how players are moving around the court to cover the three-point line and dribble penetration.

yea thats a good explanation. The frantic, manic 3pt line chasing and spaced out action in general requires more of what you said. More flexibility is needed instead of muscular rigidity.

[Im Still Ballin]

Teams cover way more miles than even 10 years ago, let alone 20-40+.


Thanks to NBA tracking data, we now know how many miles an NBA team covers in a given season dating back to the 2013-14 season. Fundamentally, this is a very good measure of league-wide physical load. Over the past ten seasons, teams have gone from covering, on average, 1,384.1 miles per 82 games to 1,492.3, and as of a few days ago, the league average was on pace to hit 1,528 [2025]. However, this leaves us with a predicament. Yes, players are covering more ground, but load management has been around longer than the tracking data. Thankfully, I found two bellwether statistics that will allow us to take a glimpse into the past and how much has changed over the past 45 years.

On offense, the league-wide pace had a linear correlation to offensive miles covered of 0.935, and on defense, the league-wide 3-point attempt rate (3PAr) came in at 0.903. This makes sense, pace measures how many possessions in a game, or how many times a team goes up and down the court, and 3PAr is an excellent proxy for how much ground a defense has to cover.

With that discovery, I simply added pace and 3PAr multiplied by 100 to create “Pace + 3PAr”. And much to my delight, the metric had a linear correlation of 0.935 to the average distance covered. When you find a linear correlation this strong, you know you’re onto something. Using a linear forecast model, I calculated how many miles teams covered on average dating back to 1980 based solely on league average pace and 3PAr. While these figures are not exact, there is a high likelihood that the overall trend is accurate, and the results are staggering.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!64WG!,w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_pro gressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1b34013 2-ba0b-4d29-8b71-55311831e2c3_1328x750.png

According to the linear forecast, it’s estimated that teams on average covered 1,282.5 miles in the 1979-80 season and that figure would hold steady for the next 15 seasons. In fact, the slight blip in the mid-90s coincides with the relative explosion in 3-pointers due to moving the 3-point line in. If we take those figures with a grain of salt, it isn’t until the mid-2000s that we’re consistently above 1,300 miles, and following the 2012-13 season, we see a massive explosion in distance traveled as pace and 3PAr spike. It took 34 years, from 1979-80 to 2013-14, for the league average distance traveled to grow 100 miles, but it only took five seasons to grow its next 100 miles. The load on players is coming fast and furious, and star players are bearing the brunt.

[Im Still Ballin]

yea thats a good explanation. The frantic, manic 3pt line chasing and spaced out action in general requires more of what you said. More flexibility is needed instead of muscular rigidity.

Eh, flexibility and muscle & strength are not at odds with each other. See gymnastics & Olympic weightlifters. I'd argue that players need to start lifting more and embracing the weight room to a greater extent. Tim Grover more or less said the same thing.

Like with anything, if implemented incorrectly, yes: the weightroom can slow you down, stiffen you up, and lead to injury. Subpar periodization, exercise selection, and poor form represent a failure to execute strength and conditioning in ideal fashion. Only will muscle mass potentially limit joint flexibility/range of motion when pro bodybuilder-level LBM (lean body mass) is attained. Which no basketball player will ever have to worry about.

Proper implementation entails intelligent periodization, the right exercise selection to promote structural balance and ideal strength ratios, and the use of a full range of motion and mobility work to maintain flexibility.

https://i.ibb.co/VJSdBVg/no2.png

[GOBB]

How can you say that? Less games means less strain.

As a fan I don't remember the last time injuries were this frequent, so something has changed. Chalk it up to whatever you want. The training, the conditioning, the frantic speed at which the game is played, the softness of the players...

... fact is the season is bloated as it is. It's long and boring and half the league makes it to the playoffs anyway. Might as well trim the games down and make each game count more. Plus it may help the injury problem. It's a win win.

Damien Lillard played 58gms this season. Not 82. Less games means less strain. I mean thats you just told me. Theres no sweet spot for games played to prevent this injury. You can make the season 40gms with the woe is me cries and if a player is training too much? That could be a cause. Or the sneaker. Or *insert many reasons why*. YOU don’t want long seasons. It’s not because you care about players health. Cut it out. Paul George was injured. He was healthy and in great conditioning. Boom injured early in the season. Too many games? He rushed back and should’ve rehabbed more. He wasn’t the same. Stops playing. Too many games?

It’s multilayered why guys are getting injured. Especially Achilles injuries. You lessen the games. A player blows his Achilles and what’s your next line?


Also non athletic, sedentary fans need to shut up calling players soft. You never done anything physically demanding in your life. It’s weird to see so many fans label a guy blowing his Achilles as being soft.


anyway as far as prevention who knows. Embiid has been injured for I don’t know how long. Long seasons isn’t the reason for it. It’s unfortunate but apart of sports. I get wanting to minimize them but focusing solely on less games ain’t solving the injury issue at all. They will still occur

[beasted]

They players wouldn't need to run as much if they let players actually defend. Instead, all of the rule changes over the last 30 years have been offensive favored.

From the looseness on carry, travels, gather, and moving screens... to the take fouls and clear path fouls, to the tightening of flagrant fouls definitions. The NBA has transparently promoted that they wanted to speed the game up.

[Im Still Ballin]

Tim Grover explains why there are more Injuries happening in today's game.

https://streamable.com/4gf6b9

[FKAri]

Seems so, this what I found on the topic:

Tennis has much more changes of direction but you're not following it up by getting as high up into air as you can, while avoiding stepping on someone or having your own foot get stepped on.

[GOBB]

Tim Grover explains why there are more Injuries happening in today's game.

https://streamable.com/4gf6b9

Good video I dig it

[Real Men Wear Green]

Tim Grover explains why there are more Injuries happening in today's game.

https://streamable.com/4gf6b9

He may be right overall but Tatum does a lot of weight training.

[coin24]

Lots of change of direction, stop/start motion and changing of pace..

Years previous you had more post play, backing guys down etc. game was slower

[Phoenix]

I haven't seen the Tim Grover vid yet,but the reality is today's players have to cover more ground due to how spaced out the game is now. Having to defend 40-50 three pointers a game is going to lead to more blown achilles. The only answer I see to this is lowering the amount of games( when's the last time a star player hit 80 games?), because obviously the cat is out of the bag in terms of the modern 3point heavy strategies.

[GOBB]

I haven't seen the Tim Grover vid yet,but the reality is today's players have to cover more ground due to how spaced out the game is now. Having to defend 40-50 three pointers a game is going to lead to more blown achilles. The only answer I see to this is lowering the amount of games( when's the last time a star player hit 80 games?), because obviously the cat is out of the bag in terms of the modern 3point heavy strategies.

How does lowering the game change how the game is played tho? Your argument is how players have to cover more ground due to spacing. How you have to defend 40-50 3’s. You’re going to do that if it’s 30 games 40 games or 50 games in a season. I’m not following the Logic of less games when that doesn’t change the style of play. Which some are hinting may be the cause.

Also Haliburton blew his Achilles not defending a 3. He went to drive. Tatum went to get a loose/tipped pass. Lillard did the same. Each player blew their Achilles with explosive movement. What we do know of a calf injury you’re chances of messing up that Achilles is high. What events led to Tatum and Lillard injuries is the unknown. It’s it repeated explosive moves over and over? I don’t know. What I do see is a bunch of theories some of which make sense to why. But lowering the games? Nah. Now if you want to give me host of reasons before lowering games that needs to be done? Sure I’ll be on board. Just lowering games solves nothing. Sorry

[ArbitraryWater]

How does lowering the game change how the game is played tho? Your argument is how players have to cover more ground due to spacing. How you have to defend 40-50 3’s. You’re going to do that if it’s 30 games 40 games or 50 games in a season. I’m not following the Logic of less games when that doesn’t change the style of play. Which some are hinting may be the cause.

Also Haliburton blew his Achilles not defending a 3. He went to drive. Tatum went to get a loose/tipped pass. Lillard did the same. Each player blew their Achilles with explosive movement. What we do know of a calf injury you’re chances of messing up that Achilles is high. What events led to Tatum and Lillard injuries is the unknown. It’s it repeated explosive moves over and over? I don’t know. What I do see is a bunch of theories some of which make sense to why. But lowering the games? Nah. Now if you want to give me host of reasons before lowering games that needs to be done? Sure I’ll be on board. Just lowering games solves nothing. Sorry

Bruh sometimes you really take it to another level.


less games means you do less of all that.

You really dont get degrees, right? You just dont get.

less games means less wear.

It always needs to be explained in extremes to you.

If you shorten the regular season to 40 games, would it make an impact on the likelihood of getting injured?

[Phoenix]

How does lowering the game change how the game is played tho? Your argument is how players have to cover more ground due to spacing. How you have to defend 40-50 3’s. You’re going to do that if it’s 30 games 40 games or 50 games in a season. I’m not following the Logic of less games when that doesn’t change the style of play. Which some are hinting may be the cause.

Also Haliburton blew his Achilles not defending a 3. He went to drive. Tatum went to get a loose/tipped pass. Lillard did the same. Each player blew their Achilles with explosive movement. What we do know of a calf injury you’re chances of messing up that Achilles is high. What events led to Tatum and Lillard injuries is the unknown. It’s it repeated explosive moves over and over? I don’t know. What I do see is a bunch of theories some of which make sense to why. But lowering the games? Nah. Now if you want to give me host of reasons before lowering games that needs to be done? Sure I’ll be on board. Just lowering games solves nothing. Sorry

I wasn't arguing that lowering the games changes the style of play. Like, there's no reason for you to think that's the connection I was making. I expressly stated that the cat is out of the bag on that. The only thing they possibly can do is shorten the season, because shortening the season obviously means less wear and tear. Like, that concept on it own merits doesn't need to be explained. I think the thing is for you.... is the Achilles issue specifically tied to the increase in player court coverage? That's the speculative part, but outside of doing something to decrease general wear and tear and HOPE that correlates to a lower possibility of Achilles injuries, what is the solution? A change in how shoes are made? Special exercises to reduce chance of an Achilles pop? The only thing we know is that Achilles injuries are on the rise from 30, even 20 years ago. The only thing we can point to as an obvious shift is style of play and what the modern players are doing. There's only but so many ways you can tackle the issue.

You expressed the reasons why those players blew their Achilles but you're asking if it's repeated explosive moves. Haliburton blew his on a drive, but who's to say that wasn't the net result of general wear and tear due to the nature of the modern game? Same for Lillard. And of course, everyone's body is different. Nobody in here knows the answer to this. We only see an uptick in this kind of injury. You're not going to change the style of play, so what is the only thing they possibly can change? The number of games. Why? Because 65 games is 17 games less of wear and tear than 82. Will that make a difference? We won't know, obviously less games is less general wear and tear. 4-2=2.

[GOBB]

I wasn't arguing that lowering the games changes the style of play. Like, there's no reason for you to think that's the connection I was making. I expressly stated that the cat is out of the bag on that. The only thing they possibly can do is shorten the season, because shortening the season obviously means less wear and tear. Like, that concept on it own merits doesn't need to be explained. I think the thing for you is... is the Achilles issue specifically tied to the increase in player court coverage? That's the speculative part, but outside of doing something to decrease general wear and tear and HOPE that correlates to a lower possibility of Achilles injuries, what is the solution? A change in how shoes are made? Special exercises to reduce chance of an Achilles pop? The only thing we know is that Achilles injuries are on the rise from 30, even 20 years ago. The only thing we can point to as an obvious shift in style of play and what the modern players are doing. There's only but so many ways you can tackle the issue.

You expressed the reasons why those players blew their Achilles but you're asking if it's repeated explosive moves. Haliburton blew his on a drive, but who's to say that wasn't the net result of general wear and tear due to the nature of the modern game? Same for Lillard. And of course, everyone's body is different. Nobody in here knows the answer to this. We only see an uptick in this kind of injury. You're not going to change the style of play, so what is the only thing they possibly can change? The number of games. Why? Because 65 games is 17 games less of wear and tear than 82. Will that make a difference? We won't know, obviously less games is less general wear and tear. 4-2=2.

Haliburton blew his Achilles because he had a calf injury in the finals. That was the net result. From non pro athletes who played sports. From pro athletes (podcasts). They all suggested he shouldn’t have played on the calf. They know why but they also said the risk of that happening was high. And how calf injuries are nothing to play with. Dame didn’t play 82gms. I want to say he got injured game 58? So the weak spot is what 30 games of wear and tear you’re less likely and over 50 you enter the danger zone? No one knows the answer to that. They just say shorten the season, less wear and tear. No one knows if these explosive moves are a result of wear and tear or other issues. Or a combination of all of the above. Seems multilayered. Also seems one case isn’t the same as another.

I dont know why these 3 blew their Achilles. I’ve read and listened to informed folks in the sports world or who have torn their Achilles before. Nothing about the long season being a result of these injuries seem to be the theme.

I don’t have a solution. I don’t concretely know why these 3 blew their Achilles. I just don’t think making the season 35 games would reduce these injuries. If haliburton doesn’t injure his calf he doesn’t blow his Achilles. But then we can say wear and tear to why he injured his calf huh?

[GOBB]

During a live NBA Finals watch party on Gil's Arena, former NBA All-Star Gilbert Arenas revealed that both Lillard and Tatum told him they had been dealing with calf issues prior to their injuries.

"Even with Jayson Tatum when I asked him about the Achilles — and Dame — [I asked] was your calf hurting before? And they both said yes," Arenas said


Something I just came across

[Cangri]

I think them changing the shot clock reset to 14 seconds after offensive rebounds in 2018, instead of the old 24 seconds has def sped up the game and also contributed to the injuries.

[Phoenix]

Haliburton blew his Achilles because he had a calf injury in the finals. That was the net result. From non pro athletes who played sports. From pro athletes (podcasts). They all suggested he shouldn’t have played on the calf. They know why but they also said the risk of that happening was high. And how calf injuries are nothing to play with. Dame didn’t play 82gms. I want to say he got injured game 58? So the weak spot is what 30 games of wear and tear you’re less likely and over 50 you enter the danger zone? No one knows the answer to that. They just say shorten the season, less wear and tear. No one knows if these explosive moves are a result of wear and tear or other issues. Or a combination of all of the above. Seems multilayered. Also seems one case isn’t the same as another.

I dont know why these 3 blew their Achilles. I’ve read and listened to informed folks in the sports world or who have torn their Achilles before. Nothing about the long season being a result of these injuries seem to be the theme.

I don’t have a solution. I don’t concretely know why these 3 blew their Achilles. I just don’t think making the season 35 games would reduce these injuries. If haliburton doesn’t injure his calf he doesn’t blow his Achilles. But then we can say wear and tear to why he injured his calf huh?

No, he 'shouldn't' have played on the calf. If this was a regular season game, hell if it was game 5 of the ECFs, he likely sits out. Game 7 of the finals? It's do or die time, and unfortunately he paid the price. The obvious alternate reality is he doesn't play, he gets over the strained calf and he's ready to go for next year. This was a worst case 'shit happens' scenario.

You are correct in two things I already said, no one knows the answer nor do any of us have solutions. The players are covering more ground than before. Like, someone above posted this about the miles today's players are incurring. So that's basically objective reality. And I would say that leading to increased wear and tear is a reasonable cause and effect assumption. Correlating all of that as to why we're getting all these Achilles issues is the speculation part, I don't claim to say reducing games is the definitive solution. Only that I don't know how else they would go about trying to tackle it if you don't start from the premise that the players will naturally have less wear and tear from less games, and then maybe you look at ways to slow down the game in some way along with the change in gear/training. How many miles are teams covering on average per game? Is there a way to reduce that without severely impacting the minute to minute action, and the reality that the 3pointer is something that will only continue to go up in attempts, not down, so the court coverage will not change. Multi-faceted issues, multi-faceted responses. Or....do nothing? I mean as I said before, there's only a few ways they can go here or just leave it as is and scratch our heads every-time someone's Achilles splits in two.

Load management is the end result of some nerd in the back looking at the data on player miles over a game, game pace, minutes played, games played, and coming to a conclusion that the players are playing too fast, covering too much ground, and for too many games. It's very much a multilayered problem just off the basis that players bodies will react to the stresses the games put on them differently, that's not just an Achilles issue, that's for any player at any point in the games history where you have some players who are durable or somewhat durable and someone who is more injury-prone. From what I read, 7 players this year had Achilles related injuries. What's the connection? Why them?

[90sgoat]

It's the low cut shoes.

They're like running shoes, no ankle support.

[Phoenix]

Something I just came across

I looked up KD's injury history before the Achilles. The immediate one before the Achilles on 6/10/19..... Calf on 5/9/19. So we may be onto something. In all of these cases these guys went out to play before they were ready to, maybe based on the urgency of the moment, and paid the price. I can't find anything on Kobe calf-wise but I get the sense he ran his legs into the ground getting the Lakers into the playoffs that year and it cost him. These are all perimeter players out on the wings having this issue. Someone like Jokic isn't going to get an Achilles tear, plays too slow and methodical. Luka had several calf-related injury notes on his report this year, but I suspect at the pace he plays he's not at large risk either, but I can only guess.

[GOBB]

I looked up KD's injury history before the Achilles. The immediate one before the Achilles on 6/10/19..... Calf on 5/9/19. So we may be onto something. In all of these cases these guys went out to play before they were ready to, maybe based on the urgency of the moment, and paid the price. I can't find anything on Kobe calf-wise but I get the sense he ran his legs into the ground getting the Lakers into the playoffs that year and it cost him. These are all perimeter players out on the wings having this issue. Someone like Jokic isn't going to get an Achilles tear, plays too slow and methodical. Luka had several calf-related injury notes on his report this year, but I suspect at the pace he plays he's not at large risk either, but I can only guess.

Wow nice find on Durant. So I saw you mentioned Kobe and decided to dig a little…



Yes, Kobe Bryant had a history of battling calf issues before he ultimately ruptured his Achilles tendon in 2013.

Here's why this is significant:
Calf and Achilles connection: The calf muscles are connected to the Achilles tendon. Overworking or injuring the calf can place increased stress on the Achilles, making it more vulnerable to a tear.
Pushing through: Players like Kobe Bryant, who are known for their competitive drive, often push through minor calf discomfort, potentially risking more severe damage.
The brutal stretch leading up to the injury: In the weeks leading up to his Achilles tear, Bryant played a demanding schedule, often logging significant minutes. This could have further exacerbated any underlying calf issues.
While a calf strain may not always lead to an Achilles rupture, ignoring the warning signs and continuing to play with pain can increase the risk. Kobe's dedication and the Lakers' playoff push might have factored into his continued playing despite any potential calf problems

[Phoenix]

Wow nice find on Durant. So I saw you mentioned Kobe and decided to dig a little…

So yeah.....Mike Brown pretty much ran Kobe into the ground in 2013, not good for someone with a background of calf issues and his legendary( but perhaps ill-fated) ethic of playing with injuries. He also did employ a good deal of athleticism in his game on top of his existing skillset, and we're talking a guy who had logged HEAVY minutes by that point. Then you have someone like Lebron who's had insane minutes over his career playing a high impact game, and his entire 2023 season had 'calf' all season long as injury notes, he played 55 games but never blew out his Achilles ( and he seems acutely aware of his body, so there's that). It's hard to find the connective tissue with all these injuries of late as far as the player profile, we can only point to the game itself.

[Phoenix]

Wow nice find on Durant. So I saw you mentioned Kobe and decided to dig a little…

So yeah.....Mike Brown pretty much ran Kobe into the ground in 2013, not good for someone with a background of calf issues and his legendary( but perhaps ill-fated) ethic of playing with injuries. He also did employ a good deal of athleticism in his game on top of his existing skillset, and we're talking a guy who had logged HEAVY minutes by that point. Then you have someone like Lebron who's had insane minutes over his career playing a high impact game, and his entire 2023 season had 'calf' all season long as injury notes, he played 55 games but never blew out his Achilles ( and he seems acutely aware of his body, so there's that). It's hard to find the connective tissue with all these injuries of late as far as the player profile, we can only point to the game itself.

EDIT: Can I just say what the fukk with these double posts? This is like my third one in the last 20 minutes or so. Would be nice if the admins took a bit of money out of what they pay 3ball to spam threads and fix the problem. Too much to ask?

[jstern]

Whenever I go play, I'm freaked out about the possibility of tearing my Achilles, so I've researched this a lot just for peace of mind. The calf muscles absolve a lot of the energy, and when it's injured, more force and mechanical stress is transferred to the Achilles tendon. Also, long layoffs, calfs getting atrophied, that's why it's common for a tear to happen to people who only play basketball in the weekend.

I think more posting up would help NBA players.

[Hakkim90cc]

Tim Grover explains why there are more Injuries happening in today's game.

https://streamable.com/4gf6b9

Just look at Zion

[ArbitraryWater]

Interesting finds here.


looks like theres a common denominator: lightskin anatomy

[Kblaze8855]

Last night I was Talking about how the increase in using the three-pointer to pump fake and drive has to lead to an increase in that motion and I woke up this morning to a bunch of discussions about this:



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2506240708270348.jpeg


apparently, it’s been pretty heavily beaten into guys the last 10 years or so as threes have increased. It’s the footwork they’re teaching you to use to go by when you get someone to bite on the fake.


teams are out here taking 50 threes at times. How many of them are pump fakes into this drive? The amount of stress on that part of the body has to go up considerably.


Guys taking five or six hundreds threes and near as many pump fakes. How many full power push-off using that tendon you think happen these days that wouldn’t have happened 30 years ago running more plays and with considerably more post ups that would send your body the opposite direction?

seriously. Who do you think is more likely to put a massive amount of stress on that tendon? A guard who posted up to get into the paint or one who fakes the shot and explodes to the basket like that from 28 feet seven times a game for 10 years and just as much in practice?

am I overthinking it?

[jstern]

Last night I was Talking about how the increase in using the three-pointer to pump fake and drive has to lead to an increase in that motion and I woke up this morning to a bunch of discussions about this:



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2506240708270348.jpeg


apparently, it’s been pretty heavily beaten into guys the last 10 years or so as threes have increased. It’s the footwork they’re teaching you to use to go by when you get someone to bite on the fake.


teams are out here taking 50 threes at times. How many of them are pump fakes into this drive? The amount of stress on that part of the body has to go up considerably.


Guys taking five or six hundreds threes and near as many pump fakes. How many full power push-off using that tendon you think happen these days that wouldn’t have happened 30 years ago running more plays and with considerably more post ups that would send your body the opposite direction?

seriously. Who do you think is more likely to put a massive amount of stress on that tendon? A guard who posted up to get into the paint or one who fakes the shot and explodes to the basket like that from 28 feet seven times a game for 10 years and just as much in practice?

am I overthinking it?

That's the foot work that I wanted to talk about in my previous post, but I didn't have a proper name for it. What I've been doing is that instead of stepping back with my foot align straight with my leg, which puts all the weight on your toes, I've been tilting the foot around 45 degrees more outward from the heal, putting all the weight mainly on my big toe. I don't know if it puts less stress on the Achilles, so I just don't do that move as often, but if you stand up and try the two styles, putting all of your weight on the big toe area feels a lot more solid.

[Walk on Water]

The answer is not to reduce games. It's to go back to traditional basketball. This is another reason why there needs to be less 3s. It's ironic because we thought we were seeing players extend their careers by playing this soft basketball. But it's hurting people because they aren't tough enough. The only way to toughen them up is to get them playing contact ball again and learn how to post up and hand check. Less running, but a more balanced physical approach. They might get more bumps and bruises, but there will be less achilles tears.

[Phoenix]

The answer is not to reduce games. It's to go back to traditional basketball. This is another reason why there needs to be less 3s. It's ironic because we thought we were seeing players extend their careers by playing this soft basketball. But it's hurting people because they aren't tough enough. The only way to toughen them up is to get them playing contact ball again and learn how to post up and hand check. Less running, but a more balanced physical approach. They might get more bumps and bruises, but there will be less achilles tears.

That's the problem as I said before: they're not going back to 'traditional' basketball unless they outright eliminate the 3 or cap attempts. Or push it the line out 3 feet and eliminate the corner 3. Teams are now basing their offense specifically around creating 3 point opportunities. I think many(most?) of us would like a return to more diversified offenses, teams and players as the whole thing feels homogenized now, but I don't know how they get that horse back in the barn.

[Phoenix]

The answer is not to reduce games. It's to go back to traditional basketball. This is another reason why there needs to be less 3s. It's ironic because we thought we were seeing players extend their careers by playing this soft basketball. But it's hurting people because they aren't tough enough. The only way to toughen them up is to get them playing contact ball again and learn how to post up and hand check. Less running, but a more balanced physical approach. They might get more bumps and bruises, but there will be less achilles tears.

That's the problem as I said before: they're not going back to 'traditional' basketball unless they outright eliminate the 3 or cap attempts. Or push it the line out 3 feet and eliminate the corner 3. And reversing a few rule changes like the shotclock resetting at 14 seconds off an offensive rebound, change that back to 24 seconds. Maybe even change the shotclock itself from 24 to 28 or 30. Slow it down. Teams are now basing their offense specifically around creating 3 point opportunities. I think many(most?) of us would like a return to more diversified offenses, teams and players as the whole thing feels homogenized now, but I don't know how they get that horse back in the barn.

[GOBB]

Hahaha I thought I was the only one experiencing the double posts. With the pop up ads, double posts or random site going down. Only site that does this for me.

[Phoenix]

Hahaha I thought I was the only one experiencing the double posts. With the pop up ads, double posts or random site going down. Only site that does this for me.

It feels like every third post I make this shit happens. Annoying as fukk....

[beasted]

Adam Silver says league taking serious look at Achilles tears

The NBA had already convened a panel of experts to study Achilles tendon injuries even before Indiana star Tyrese Haliburton ruptured his in Game 7 of the NBA Finals, Commissioner Adam Silver said Wednesday night. The league had seven known Achilles injuries this season – Pacers forwards James Wiseman and Isaiah Jackson, New Orleans guard Dejounte Murray and Miami guard Dru Smith had them in the regular season, and Boston’s Jayson Tatum, Milwaukee’s Damian Lillard and Haliburton were hurt in the playoffs. Silver, speaking to ESPN as part of its NBA draft coverage, said there weren’t any in the NBA in the previous season. “We had already convened a panel of experts before Tyrese’s most recent Achilles rupture,” Silver said on the telecast. “We had seven this year. We had zero last year under the exact same circumstances. The most we’ve ever had in a season is four.”

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45585272/adam-silver-says-league-taking-serious-look-achilles-tears

[John8204]

Just look at Zion

One of the more interesting things about ACL injuries is the bigger guys seem to avoid them.

Zion, Jokic, Embiid, Lebron, Shaq, Mutombo, Ewing, Robinson, Walton, Barkley...all went there careers without ACL tears

Durant, Kyrie, Nique, Kobe, Dame, Rose, Tatum...all skinnier more "in shape" guys.

I can't think of a 300lber that tore his ACL in the NBA...

[3ba11]

The greater floor space that defenders must cover from the 3-pt shooting is made infinitely harder by having this spacing responsibility put exclusively on a player's LEGS, since they can't use their hands or upper body to help them manage the offensive player (no hand-checking, bumping or "impeding").. Essentially, it's the hands-off spaced-out beginner format that makes scoring automatic and defense a track meet - thanks Silver

[beasted]

One of the more interesting things about ACL injuries is the bigger guys seem to avoid them.

Zion, Jokic, Embiid, Lebron, Shaq, Mutombo, Ewing, Robinson, Walton, Barkley...all went there careers without ACL tears

Durant, Kyrie, Nique, Kobe, Dame, Rose, Tatum...all skinnier more "in shape" guys.

I can't think of a 300lber that tore his ACL in the NBA...

You said ACL but I assume you meant achilles

[tpols]

It does kind of fascinate me that guys on top of being more durable, we're also drinking and smoking and even abusing drugs as well... still dominated. Shawn Kemp and Lawrence Taylor probably smoked a mountain of crack cocaine between the two of them. Or the one of them. Rarely hurt and athletic as ****. I feel like guys were just tougher back then.

[GOBB]

It does kind of fascinate me that guys on top of being more durable, we're also drinking and smoking and even abusing drugs as well... still dominated. Shawn Kemp and Lawrence Taylor probably smoked a mountain of crack cocaine between the two of them. Or the one of them. Rarely hurt and athletic as ****. I feel like guys were just tougher back then.

Kemp didn’t do crack

[Baller234]

That's the problem as I said before: they're not going back to 'traditional' basketball unless they outright eliminate the 3 or cap attempts. Or push it the line out 3 feet and eliminate the corner 3. And reversing a few rule changes like the shotclock resetting at 14 seconds off an offensive rebound, change that back to 24 seconds. Maybe even change the shotclock itself from 24 to 28 or 30. Slow it down. Teams are now basing their offense specifically around creating 3 point opportunities. I think many(most?) of us would like a return to more diversified offenses, teams and players as the whole thing feels homogenized now, but I don't know how they get that horse back in the barn.

This is gonna be a controversial take but I'm starting to think the 3pt shot actually ruined the integrity of the game. We were raised on it and we have a lot of great memories with it but you can't deny it undermines the game.

First of all it inflates the value of shooters. Guys who can't do much else but space the floor and shoot are now capable of dominating a game on any given night because they can hit open 3's.

Second, it achieves the opposite of what the game is supposed to be. The goal of basketball on offense is to generate the highest percentage FGA. The goal on defense is to generate the lowest percentage FGA.

But the 3pt line undoes all that strategy. It rewards and incentivizes low percentage shots. Now teams are just chucking (gambling) every other possession. Meanwhile on defense you could force a guy to chuck from 25 feet but still get punished. The 3pt element takes the some strategy out of the game and adds a wild card.

When I think about it now the 2011 Mavs should have been the telling sign. That Game 4 they just totally shot the Lakers out of the gym. Felt like every other possession someone was wide open for a 3, like they were playing a totally different game. In reality they were.

But is that really basketball is the question. Don't get me wrong they were a great team and they proved themselves, showed up big in a lot of games, but their 2nd best scorer was Jason Terry. Tough as nails but not a guy who could have been the 2nd best scorer on a championship team in an era without the 3. Like I said the value of certain guys gets inflated.

[Jasper]

all the players were drinking the same juice water ... and it affected their heels.

[Hey Yo]

"I think the one thing we have to do is get away from the defensive nature of trying to convince people, players and teams that there's no connection between the loads and the injuries," Presti said. "We're kind of bordering on a level of -- it's almost insulting, you know? It doesn't mean it's anyone's fault. It doesn't mean we don't want our best players playing every single night. It's not a matter of players not wanting to play or being soft or anything like that. But I don't think we should be putting our head in the sand and acting like there's no correlation."

"If we're pointing to data, the data is from 20 years ago or 10 years ago," Presti said. "The game is a totally different sport than it was even several years ago because of the amount of possessions, the way the offenses work now. It's not people standing around the 3-point line waiting for double teams and then the ball to get kicked out. There's so much movement in every possession. We're playing almost like two games compared to 10 years ago and how involved the bodies are."

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/thunder-gm-sam-presti-says-nba-cant-put-head-in-the-sand-about-injuries-its-almost-insulting/