Boston has thrown Porziņģis out of the boat as well.

[Kblaze8855]

As expected

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2506250431340350.jpeg

[Meticode]

I guess that's what happens when a 20PPG, shot blocking, three point shooting 7'3" center can't stay on the court and has a mysterious virus. His worth turns into Georges Niang + a second rounder.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Niang is the not that good player in the opposing t team that I found myself disliking whenever they played the Celtics. Ugh.

Atlanta may have gotten a steal and also may have been robbed. KP's health is a Rollercoaster like that. I wish him well though, can't hold the health issues against him and when he was right the Celtics were the best team in the league.

Raises the odds the team keeps Kornet.

[Meticode]

Niang is the not that good player in the opposing t team that I fitness myself disliking whenever they played the Celtics. Ugh.

Atlanta may have gotten a steal and also may have been robbed. KP's health is a Rollercoaster like that. I wish him well though, can't hold the health issues against him and when he was right the Celtics were the best team in the league.

Raises the odds the team keeps Kornet.
Niang a 7th or 8th guy off the bench basically. Serviceable, will give you effort and threes, but will make dumb mistakes too.

[Wally450]

The Nets now have 5 first round picks after this. Wonder if they’re going to offer them for Giannis?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Niang a 7th or 8th guy off the bench basically. Serviceable, will give you effort and threes, but will make dumb mistakes too.I would trade him for a bottle of Sam Adam's cherry wheat and a pound of smoked brisket.

[Mask the Embiid]

https://media.tenor.com/Ke7Hwf-Gp-QAAAAM/dancing-spiderman.gif

[FultzNationRISE]

Makes sense, Hawks are kind of the perfect team to gamble on KP, theyre on the treadmill as is with no surefire way to get off it quickly in one direction or the other. If he doesnt ever play a game for them it doesnt really change what they were doing anyway and they gave up relatively little. If he plays the full season and plays well, and so does the rest of the team, their ceiling could be a second round, *maybe* conference finals team if everything bounces their way in a depleted east. Which is obviously better than missing the playoffs like they did this year.

I also thought KP was very underused as a rim roller in Boston. That shouldnt be an issue playing alongside Trae. They should be a fun tandem to watch.

With the obvious caveat that everything is predicated on him being able to stay on the court.

[Real Men Wear Green]

https://media.tenor.com/Ke7Hwf-Gp-QAAAAM/dancing-spiderman.gif Is wide open for Philly now. I'm sure they'll have another great year.

[Xiao Yao You]

I like niang. Worked himself into a rotation player from the gleafue

[Kblaze8855]

Multiple reputable people have said they started listening to offers for Brown too though they aren’t outright soliciting them. Apparently it’s gone from ignoring them to considering it.

They really might go scorched earth. They really could get themselves a thunder like haul where they have 20ish first round picks the next 5 to 7 years if they wanted to.

If they get rid of brown, they might as well try to find four first rounders for white as well.

Get themselves more than a dozen total picks have 80 or 90 million in cap space tank next season And see who wants to come play with Tatum and all the first rounders in the world.

if you’re gonna blow it up, don’t **** around with it.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I wouldn't say JB is untradeable but if Desmond Bane can get 5 firsts then the price needs to be astronomical. Especially when seeing how the team looks when Tatum returns is a pretty good option. They could even still tank next year by just giving Brown a ridiculous amount of rest.

[Xiao Yao You]

I wouldn't say JB is untradeable but if Desmond Bane can get 5 firsts then the price needs to be astronomical. Especially when seeing how the team looks when Tatum returns is a pretty good option. They could even still tank next year by just giving Brown a ridiculous amount of rest.

Should be playoff team in the lEast anyway

[Real Men Wear Green]

Should be playoff team in the lEast anyway
They can if they want but if they traded or have the year odd to Brown or would be a bad team. You can't lose 4 or
Utof 5 starters including the only two Allstars and still be competitive I don't care who you are.

[Xiao Yao You]

They can if they want but if they traded or have the year odd to Brown or would be a bad team. You can't lose 4 or
Utof 5 starters including the only two Allstars and still be competitive I don't care who you are.
Jazz lost their only all star and were 6th seed in the better conference

[Xiao Yao You]

Als9 barely missed playoffs after stockton and malone. If you are in the east you should expect to make it to the play in. Got to be trying real hard not to or be philly

[Proctor]

https://media.tenor.com/Ke7Hwf-Gp-QAAAAM/dancing-spiderman.gif

:roll:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Jazz lost their only all star and were 6th seed in the better conference The Jazz roster has nothing to do with the Celtics. Completely different set of players. No one cares about your team or your issues. Go away.

[Kblaze8855]

Sure Brown is worth more than Bane, but I’m not sure how much bigger the Hauls can get when you aren’t looking to get a star player in return. You’d have to identify a potential star like SGA in the Paul trade and get picks on top of it.

The Cavs in the 80s ****ed it up for everybody so the NBA has a max on picks you can trade and how many consecutive ones you can include.

To go on five you have to trade some that you own from somebody else already. It’s a whole ordeal to arrange it. And you can’t trade more than seven years out. You can trade no more than five of your next seven…of your own. It’s why teams include pick swaps instead.

It’s hard for packages to get much bigger than five first rounders and a prospect.

I might call a young team on the cusp of something like the Pistons, maybe. Magic already gave up a haul. Really don’t know who to target.

with the Mavs in full win now mode, what do you think they would say if you call and ask for Flagg an offer a replacement for Kyrie that gives them a window this coming year?

I assume they say no, but those are the kind of deals I would be looking for

[FultzNationRISE]

Sure Brown is worth more than vain, but I’m not sure how much bigger the holes can get when you aren’t looking to get a star player in return. You’d have to identify a potential star like SGA in the Paul trade and get picks on top of it.

The Cavs in the 80s ****ed it up for everybody so the NBA has a max on picks you can trade and how many consecutive ones you can include.

To go on five you have to trade some that you own from somebody else already. It’s a whole ordeal to arrange it. And you can’t trade more than seven years out. You can trade no more than five of your next seven…of your own. It’s why teams include pick swaps instead.

It’s hard for packages to get much bigger than five first rounders and a prospect.

I might call a young team on the cusp of something like the Pistons, maybe. Magic already gave up a haul. Really don’t know who to target.

with the Mavs in full win now mode, what do you think they would say if you call and ask for Flagg an offer a replacement for Kyrie that gives them a window this coming year?

I assume they say no, but those are the kind of deals I would be looking for


Brown also has a contract 33% larger than Bane.

And honestly Bane with his shooting might be the more valuable "fit" for a lot of teams even if he's not "better" the way most people measure it in terms of iso scoring ability. In reality if Bane is a 6, Brown is probably a 7. It's only in a Celtic homer's mind that Bane is a 6 and Brown is a 20.

But yeah theres just not a lot of avenues for giving away a guy making 50 million without taking back commensurate salary. Teams that would want to add him are all generally over the salary cap and would have to move a lot of role players to clear the way, and then it might not even be worth it.

[NBAGOAT]

Maybe offer brown to spurs. It be vassell Kelton and like 6 1sts. This is unless the 2nd overall pick is included then might be like 2-3 other picks

[Mask the Embiid]

Is wide open for Philly now. I'm sure they'll have another great year.

The Celtics are not done trading. They are trying to move off jalen brown right now too for a Center. I personally wanted to be the one to tell you before the news breaks.


https://media.tenor.com/LFeZJ6KRIkYAAAAM/pop-thumbs-up.gif

[Real Men Wear Green]

The Celtics are not done trading. They are trying to move off jalen brown right now too for a Center. I personally wanted to be the one to tell you before the news breaks.


https://media.tenor.com/LFeZJ6KRIkYAAAAM/pop-thumbs-up.gif Philly would like to trade Embiid and George they just can't find anyone to take them.

[Mask the Embiid]

Philly would like to trade Embiid and George they just can't find anyone to take them.

O you are here perfect. You're not trading with us. But im glad i was the one to break the news to you lol. Enjoy your new center

[Patrick Chewing]

Boston gonna be in the lottery next year.

[FultzNationRISE]

I could see the Hornets having interest in pairing Jaylen Brown with Lamelo Ball to add some defense and leadership to the starting backcourt. They could send the Celtics Mark Williams and Grant Williams and Miles Bridges.

Thatd be about 5 million less salary coming in to the C's than going out, plus they could further distribute any of those guys elsewhere if need be.

The Hornets would still suck but Brown would at least give the roster some degree of credibility which it severely lacks at the moment. They have nobody who is accomplished and nobody who is going to be accomplished. Including Sideshow Melo, other than some all star fan votes. With JB they would simply be "a pretty bad team" which is a step up from their current and foreseeable status of "absolute irrelevant joke."

[Real Men Wear Green]

O you are here perfect. You're not trading with us. But im glad i was the one to break the news to you lol. Enjoy your new center
What news? You stated an opinion. Enjoy your same old center. For about 30 games.

[Mask the Embiid]

Boston gonna be in the lottery next year.

add the S to that last word. its about to be plural


https://i.postimg.cc/43906msK/dTuG357.gif

[Carbine]

Maybe offer brown to spurs. It be vassell Kelton and like 6 1sts. This is unless the 2nd overall pick is included then might be like 2-3 other picks

I don't think you understand how much value Harper has around the league if you think Harper is worth between 3 and 4 draft picks in a Brown trade proposal.

[NBAGOAT]

I don't think you understand how much value Harper has around the league if you think Harper is worth between 3 and 4 draft picks in a Brown trade proposal.

ah i assume unprotected future picks tbf. then celtics get 0-1 other picks then

[Manny98]

Yikes just got rid of their two most important players with mediocre returns

Boston back to mediocrity for the next 10 years :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Not sure why Boston is gutting their stacked team but I love it.

Keep Brown there. Let Tatum and Brown try to win with this. They won‘t.

Hopefully they trade Pritchard or some shit.

[ImKobe]

Not sure why Boston is gutting their stacked team but I love it.

Keep Brown there. Let Tatum and Brown try to win with this. They won‘t.

Hopefully they trade Pritchard or some shit.

Money. Pritchard is not getting traded, he has an amazing contract. They can tank next year and get another rotation guy/potential star on a rookie deal from the draft. With the new CBA rules more teams will look to stack 1st round picks and build a young roster with guys on rookie deals around their star player (like OKC). It buys them a window where they can have a stacked team before the rookie deals expire like they did with Tatum & Brown.

[JohnnySic]

The tank is all fueled up. Celtics with a top 5 pick next year.

I'll probably watch more hockey next season.

[tpols]

Crazy how Zingis had just one great playoff series for Boston and was trash otherwise in the playoffs, either hurt or mid, but it just so happened to occur at the best moment for them. If Zingis played how he has in any of these other playoff series in the Finals vs Dallas, Luka and Kyrie would've won that shit.

[ShawkFactory]

Crazy how Zingis had just one great playoff series for Boston and was trash otherwise in the playoffs, either hurt or mid, but it just so happened to occur at the best moment for them. If Zingis played how he has in any of these other playoff series in the Finals vs Dallas, Luka and Kyrie would've won that shit.

He played 60 total minutes in the finals.

For your math, that's one game and one quarter.

[beasted]

Celtics rotation 2025-2026 with no other significant changes:

PG: Pritchard / Simons
SG: White / Simons
SF: Brown / Hauser
PF: Horford* / Niang
C: Kornet / Queta

*Pending retirement decision

TRASH defense. Mediocre offense. Not terrible enough to guarantee a top 4 pick.

[Wally450]

Crazy how Zingis had just one great playoff series for Boston and was trash otherwise in the playoffs, either hurt or mid, but it just so happened to occur at the best moment for them. If Zingis played how he has in any of these other playoff series in the Finals vs Dallas, Luka and Kyrie would've won that shit.

I appreciate what he did in helping us during his 2 seasons here (really 1 with the time he missed), but they guy can not be relied upon when the lights are the brightest.

[tpols]

I appreciate what he did in helping us during his 2 seasons here (really 1 with the time he missed), but they guy can not be relied upon when the lights are the brightest.

That was the only time he showed up.


https://youtu.be/1-9_3ixfsww?si=QYxt094zoqi8w9No

You guys didn't even really need him for the 1st three rounds given context of what your opponents were.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't hold the injuries and illnness against him either but he did nothing in the Ƙnicks series when the Celtics got eliminated. Had he been up to his healthy standard the Celtics could have won that series even worth Tatum getting hurt. It's not his fault that he's unreliable but it's the reality. The game and a half of minutes vs a Dallas team that got mashed 4-1 doesn't change that fact. The way he tried to play with his various issues did get him permanent respect from most Celtic fans but we fully understand why he was a target when it came to cutting costs.

[sdot_thadon]

So their management really wasn't too high on the team a year from now? They haven't completely blown it up but this is pretty significant. What's the plan here?

[Xiao Yao You]

So their management really wasn't too high on the team a year from now? They haven't completely blown it up but this is pretty significant. What's the plan here?

Get under 2nd apron. Maybe under tax. Flexibility and assets until ttatum comes back. What else would they do?

[FultzNationRISE]

That was the only time he showed up.

You guys didn't even really need him for the 1st three rounds given context of what your opponents were.


Yeah, what he clearly meant was he can't be relied on to be available when the lights are brightest. In the rare moments he's been healthy on the big stage he's played great. Unfortunately that constituted about 1 playoff series over the course of 2 years, and a couple season openers/national TV games against the Knicks where he would always go off.

He is a nice fit on paper with the Hawks. Not gonna expect him to have a healthy successful season next year based on his track record but it is possible, and would be cool if he does. I honestly think the Hawks are potentially a better fit than Dallas OR Boston were in terms of maximizing his particular skills. Him and Trae will have kind of a "my giant" thing going on, and the two of them could be a deadly combination on offense. Also helps a lot getting an elite shot blocker behind Trae. With Atlanta's emerging young guys on the perimeter I think it can be a formidable team on paper, but a big part of it will be gelling and developing quality basketball chemistry. If they all buy in I think COTM can get more out of this team than could ever have been expected of him with Rudy's Jazz.

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah, what he clearly meant was he can't be relied on to be available when the lights are brightest. In the rare moments he's been healthy on the big stage he's played great. Unfortunately that constituted about 1 playoff series over the course of 2 years, and a couple season openers/national TV games against the Knicks where he would always go off.

He is a nice fit on paper with the Hawks. Not gonna expect him to have a healthy successful season next year based on his track record but it is possible, and would be cool if he does. I honestly think the Hawks are potentially a better fit than Dallas OR Boston were in terms of maximizing his particular skills. Him and Trae will have kind of a "my giant" thing going on, and the two of them could be a deadly combination on offense. Also helps a lot getting an elite shot blocker behind Trae. With Atlanta's emerging young guys on the perimeter I think it can be a formidable team on paper, but a big part of it will be gelling and developing quality basketball chemistry. If they all buy in I think COTM can get more out of this team than could ever have been expected of him with Rudy's Jazz.

More talented on paper. Dont have a fuy that has carried bad teams though. Luckily cotm is in the east

[sdot_thadon]

Get under 2nd apron. Maybe under tax. Flexibility and assets until ttatum comes back. What else would they do?

I dunno, maybe let their proven championship core develop even more reliability without their top guy and then go win another one? (With zero financial consideration obviously)

[Real Men Wear Green]

I dunno, maybe let their proven championship core develop even more reliability without their top guy and then go win another one? (With zero financial consideration obviously)
The problem with that statement is that the rebuild is being driven mainly by financial consideration, somewhat also by the expectation Tatum won't play next year. Before trades the luxury tax penalties are coin ng to cissy ownership a half billion in total for payroll and then without Tatum they are at best a 50 win second round team in a normal year. Owners decided that was too much to pay. If you ignore the money the Porzingis trade would be crazy. You consider that second apron money though and it makes sense it's just not something that as fans we're going to care about.

[Xiao Yao You]

Little flexibility in the 2nd apron. Multiple years in a row paying tax also a penalty sp it makes sense to look towards 2026-27. Id think you keep brown ideally.

[Kblaze8855]

Shams is saying the Jazz are making significant offers for brown.

[sdot_thadon]

The problem with that statement is that the rebuild is being driven mainly by financial consideration, somewhat also by the expectation Tatum won't play next year. Before trades the luxury tax penalties are coin ng to cissy ownership a half billion in total for payroll and then without Tatum they are at best a 50 win second round team in a normal year. Owners decided that was too much to pay. If you ignore the money the Porzingis trade would be crazy. You consider that second apron money though and it makes sense it's just not something that as fans we're going to care about.

Completely understand that, I think what bothers me is they didn't get a player that moves the needle in return. Im not a C's fan but from where im sitting Porzingas was that last piece to get them over the hump. If they were my team I'd hate to see them build a champion then pivot away a year later. We saw Dallas do that and not reach the finals again for a while.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Shams is saying the Jazz are making significant offers for brown.
Believable. Ainge drafted him after all. I think it may be hard for Ainge and Stevens to come to an agreement on such a major asset though. Stevens had already dealt with the second apron issue so he's free to focus exclusively on improving the roster/assets in any deals. He and Ainge both have a history of getting the better end of the deal in big trades, so how do Utah and Boston both win big in a deal?

[RRR3]

Stevens isn't letting the Jazz have Brown unless they give up their pick

[Real Men Wear Green]

Completely understand that, I think what bothers me is they didn't get a player that moves the needle in return. Im not a C's fan but from where im sitting Porzingas was that last piece to get them over the hump. If they were my team I'd hate to see them build a champion then pivot away a year later. We saw Dallas do that and not reach the finals again for a while.
I'm not enjoying these trades I just understand why they're happening. My hope going into this, which is still alive, was that they do enough to get below second apron while keeping a good amount of talent and come back with Tatum and Brown in 2026. KP and Holiday were as good as it gets when it comes to a supporting cast but Holiday is missing games, may be getting old and Porzingis just can't stay on the floor making it tough to become a team that gets used to him scoring and protecting the basket and then he's gone for whole playoff series. They got nothing but cap relief for Porzingis but they even managed to get a good player back when they traded Holiday. All things considered if they keep the rest of the team reasonably intact I won't be mad at the new owner.

[Xiao Yao You]

Shams is saying the Jazz are making significant offers for brown.


Not surprising with 2 ainges and their treasure trove of assets

[tpols]

Shams is saying the Jazz are making significant offers for brown.

The Celtics are about to be the Charlotte Hornets.

:roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

The Celtics are about to be the Charlotte Hornets.

:roll:

Like they were before tatum/brown or like theyvwere before kg and allen?

[Xiao Yao You]

With the framework of pick five and a few other expiring contracts, it'd likely put the expiring deals John Collins, Collin Sexton and Jordan Clarkson in the package to match Brown's $53 million salary for the 2025-26 season, and could even include a young player/draft pick compensation along with to sweeten the pot for Boston.

Would mss sexton. Hopefully not hendricks or collier

[90sgoat]

Zingis stock is criminally undervalued. Celtics don't win that ring without him.

I bet he'll show up and make Trae look good. Pick and Pop all day.

[Xiao Yao You]

Better odds that hes on the sidelines like most of his career

[Meticode]

Zingis stock is criminally undervalued. Celtics don't win that ring without him.

I bet he'll show up and make Trae look good. Pick and Pop all day.

We know they don't. They didn't win a ring without him this season. Problem is he's usually not on the court when it matters.

[Meticode]

Zingis stock is criminally undervalued. Celtics don't win that ring without him.

I bet he'll show up and make Trae look good. Pick and Pop all day.

We know they don't. They didn't win a ring without him this season. Problem is he's usually not on the court when it matters.

[Mask the Embiid]

Completely understand that, I think what bothers me is they didn't get a player that moves the needle in return. Im not a C's fan but from where im sitting Porzingas was that last piece to get them over the hump. If they were my team I'd hate to see them build a champion then pivot away a year later. We saw Dallas do that and not reach the finals again for a while.

You dont seem to understand how terrified of the 2nd apron these teams are. These owners start losing out on millons. The Celtic owner would be paying 100's of millions of dollars every year in repeater tax. Thats never going to happen. Maybe the clippers. no one else can afford to burn 100's of millions of dollars except steve ballmer who has more money than every other nba owner combined. We are closer to the Celtics owners in lifestyle than they are to steve ballmer....let that sink in



They dont care about moving the needle. The new owner told the gm to get under the luxury tax by any means.



This is a business after all.


rest in piss 2015-2025 Celtics run. its finally over. they are finally gone

[Jasper]

priz is to tall ,, for his frame .. but can be used 18-25 minutes a game if managed correctly.
Boston did not know what they had ...

[Xiao Yao You]

priz is to tall ,, for his frame .. but can be used 18-25 minutes a game if managed correctly.
Boston did not know what they had ...

They knew. Made it a lot easier to trade him

[90sgoat]

We know they don't. They didn't win a ring without him this season. Problem is he's usually not on the court when it matters.

I'm surprised it was Hawks that got him. I could see a lot of contenders wanting to take a chance at him, particularly younger teams with good contracts.

Why didn't Houston get Zingis instead of Durant? Denver? Pacers?

[Gudo]

Should have gotten rid of Brown instead. Overrated and overpaid.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Should have gotten rid of Brown instead. Overrated and overpaid.
What award has JB gotten in his entire career that he didn't deserve? The word "overrated" is frequently misused. As for who they should have/will gotten rid of, you will move Brown if you want to tank. He has led the team to 5 Conference Finals (and been part of 6). He's still under 30 but has done enough to get his jersey retired. On the flip side Porzingis has missed close to half the games in his time in Boston, a fact that people that want to act like he was just as important as Tatum and Brown always seem to ignore. He'll deserve his tribute video when the Hawks come to town but it's not even close.

[beasted]

We get it, you're a homer and you're willing to die on that hill. But nearly every advanced stat says that DeMar Derozan had a better offensive season than Brown last season. That's NASTY work considering DeRozan is 35, on the decline and paid less than half of Brown.

Yes, Brown is a much better defender, but it speaks to the absolute thoroughness of Brown's good-not-at-all great impact. He's an important cog of an overall well oiled machine and Celtics fans should have no reason to try and fix something that hasn't been broken this far. If the Celtics hold onto Brown, next year will cement his market level as the lead guy. If the team falls off a total cliff and Brown's stats are just as mediocre, his value will shrink 4 fold from its peak around 2.5 years ago.

[Real Men Wear Green]

We get it, you're a homer and you're willing to die on that hill. But nearly every advanced stat says that DeMar Derozan had a better offensive season than Brown last season. That's NASTY work considering DeRozan is 35, on the decline and paid less than half of Brown.Demar Derozan had a Finals MVP award? He was an allstar? Guess I didn't notice. I guess all the GMS that contacted Boston trying to trade for JB must be Celtic homers too. You already died on the hill last year and at this point just seen to want attention.


Yes, Brown is a much better defender,Are you sure?
but it speaks to the absolute thoroughness of Brown's good-not-at-all great impact. I know the Finals MVP award doesn't impress you much, but perhaps it could be used as a paperweight?
He's an important cog of an overall well oiled machine and Celtics fans should have no reason to try and fix something that hasn't been broken this far. No you've convinced me, they would be just as good with Derozan. Don't know why Stevens hasn't made the move yet, he could save a lot of money. Terrible GM.
If the Celtics hold onto Brown, next year will cement his market level as the lead guy. If the team falls off a total cliff and Brown's stats are just as mediocre, his value will shrink 4 fold from its peak around 2.5 years ago. Most mediocre all-star Finals MVP to ever make an AllNBA team?

[ImKobe]

We get it, you're a homer and you're willing to die on that hill. But nearly every advanced stat says that DeMar Derozan had a better offensive season than Brown last season. That's NASTY work considering DeRozan is 35, on the decline and paid less than half of Brown.

Yes, Brown is a much better defender, but it speaks to the absolute thoroughness of Brown's good-not-at-all great impact. He's an important cog of an overall well oiled machine and Celtics fans should have no reason to try and fix something that hasn't been broken this far. If the Celtics hold onto Brown, next year will cement his market level as the lead guy. If the team falls off a total cliff and Brown's stats are just as mediocre, his value will shrink 4 fold from its peak around 2.5 years ago.

Well, it would make sense for them to let Brown put up career numbers next year and then move him when his value is at it's highest, right? He had a "meh" season and Playoffs and I don't think he's a great long-time partner for Tatum. Let him jack up 20+ shots a game and average 28 and move him for assets that make sense long-term.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Well, it would make sense for them to let Brown put up career numbers next year and then move him when his value is at it's highest, right? He had a "meh" season and Playoffs and I don't think he's a great long-time partner for Tatum. Let him jack up 20+ shots a game and average 28 and move him for assets that make sense long-term. They could have traded the "meh" allstar to Utah for their lottery pick, some players, and a general haul of assets. Then next year, with 4/5ths of the starting 5 gone, they have a lottery pick. But apparently the Celtics value Brown more than you and some of the posters on this board seem to. Meanwhile Brandon Ingram is on his threes team and counting. Go figure.

[ImKobe]

They could have traded the "meh" allstar to Utah for their lottery pick, some players, and a general haul of assets. Then next year, with 4/5ths of the starting 5 gone, they have a lottery pick. But apparently the Celtics value Brown more than you and some of the posters on this board seem to. Meanwhile Brandon Ingram is on his threes team and counting. Go figure.

Who's to say Jaylen Brown wouldn't have Ingram's career trajectory if he played on the Pelicans as well? Jaylen had years to develop on stacked teams that were coached well as a role player before turning into a star while BI played for one of the worst franchises in the league that still have no idea what they're doing to this day..

There are people here that argued to me in another thread that Bane's 40 million was too much, but apparently paying 50-60 million a year for a guy who puts up 22 points on mediocre efficiency because he can't shoot 3s is well worth the supermax.

[RRR3]

Who's to say Jaylen Brown wouldn't have Ingram's career trajectory if he played on the Pelicans as well? Jaylen had years to develop on stacked teams that were coached well as a role player before turning into a star while BI played for one of the worst franchises in the league that still have no idea what they're doing to this day..

There are people here that argued to me in another thread that Bane's 40 million was too much, but apparently paying 50-60 million a year for a guy who puts up 22 points on mediocre efficiency because he can't shoot 3s is well worth the supermax.
Ingram is a Dion Waiters level player

[Real Men Wear Green]

Who's to say Jaylen Brown wouldn't have Ingram's career trajectory if he played on the Pelicans as well? Jaylen had years to develop on stacked teams that were coached well as a role player before turning into a star while BI played for one of the worst franchises in the league that still have no idea what they're doing to this day..

There are people here that argued to me in another thread that Bane's 40 million was too much, but apparently paying 50-60 million a year for a guy who puts up 22 points on mediocre efficiency because he can't shoot 3s is well worth the supermax. Sure let's ignore the fact that Ingram was drafted by the Lakers and played with years of lottery picks as well as one of the greatest players of all time. A team that promptly won a championship after they traded him. And let's also ignore that in his second year Brown led the Celtics (alongside another one of your favorites) to the conference finals after the Celtics two best players got injured. But it's all because Ingram got drafted by the Pelicans (who didn't draft him).

[Xiao Yao You]

Ingram would play d and stay hraltjy on a different franchise?

[beasted]

Demar Derozan had a Finals MVP award? He was an allstar? Guess I didn't notice. I guess all the GMS that contacted Boston trying to trade for JB must be Celtic homers too. You already died on the hill last year and at this point just seen to want attention.

Are you sure? I know the Finals MVP award doesn't impress you much, but perhaps it could be used as a paperweight?No you've convinced me, they would be just as good with Derozan. Don't know why Stevens hasn't made the move yet, he could save a lot of money. Terrible GM. Most mediocre all-star Finals MVP to ever make an AllNBA team?

I've already enumerated how Brown has something like the 3rd worst PPG for a Finals MVP over the last like 40 years. I have no clue why you keep harping on it. Someone from the winning team has to win it. Nobody is trying to take away his Finals MVP from him, so you can give it a rest.

But, ultimately, in the backdrop of comparison to other years Finals MVPs, he's literally statstically far below the average, which is not an opinion whatsoever. This is a clear indicator of his talent level overall.

As far as Brown's 2024-2025 regular season vs Derozan, I don't understand why you disagree with a pure fact since the 2023-2024 Finals MVP playoffs has nothing to do with it.

Derozan nearly across the board basic stats, advanced stats, comprehensive advanced stats like rAPM, basically universally in favor of DeRozan. Well, newsflash, nobody is raving about Derozan or how awesome of a player he is. Nearly everyone thinks of him as just a good solid player. The main problem is Brown is the 6th highest paid in the league, and Derozan is 70th, and nobody thinks Derozan is a underpaid.

Just say you hate facts and are biased.

[beasted]

Well, it would make sense for them to let Brown put up career numbers next year and then move him when his value is at it's highest, right? He had a "meh" season and Playoffs and I don't think he's a great long-time partner for Tatum. Let him jack up 20+ shots a game and average 28 and move him for assets that make sense long-term.

Yes, that would be the best case scenario and great for them. If he has a Beal type season where he puts up inflated stats far above his usual, he will fetch a king's ransom. I could literally envision a Paul George haul.

[beasted]

Who's to say Jaylen Brown wouldn't have Ingram's career trajectory if he played on the Pelicans as well? Jaylen had years to develop on stacked teams that were coached well as a role player before turning into a star while BI played for one of the worst franchises in the league that still have no idea what they're doing to this day..

There are people here that argued to me in another thread that Bane's 40 million was too much, but apparently paying 50-60 million a year for a guy who puts up 22 points on mediocre efficiency because he can't shoot 3s is well worth the supermax.

You get it. There's been 1 season from Brown to indicate he's can be much better than Ingram, but otherwise he's been slightly better as an individual, more durable, and had benefited from his team's success.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I've already enumerated how Brown has something like the 3rd worst PPG for a Finals MVP over the last like 40 years. I have no clue why you keep harping on it. Someone from the winning team has to win it. Nobody is trying to take away his Finals MVP from him, so you can give it a rest.I point out that he was the finals MVP because he was the finals MVP. He played great defense on the opposing superstar, hit major baskets for the Celtics throughout the playoffs and was a great leader in and out the court. You don't have to like it.


But, ultimately, in the backdrop of comparison to other years Finals MVPs, he's literally statstically far below the average, which is not an opinion whatsoever. This is a clear indicator of his talent level overall. This statement is a clear indicator of your opinion, which doesn't seem particularly important to the Celtics, so they signed him to that huge deal and have rebuffed the various offers from other teams that apparently wish they could overpay him.


As far as Brown's 2024-2025 regular season vs Derozan, I don't understand why you disagree with a pure fact since the 2023-2024 Finals MVP playoffs has nothing to do with it. The only fact I see here is that you're a stat dork losing an argument.


Derozan nearly across the board basic stats, advanced stats, comprehensive advanced stats like rAPM, basically universally in favor of DeRozan. Well, newsflash, nobody is raving about Derozan or how awesome of a player he is. Nearly everyone thinks of him as just a good solid player. The main problem is Brown is the 6th highest paid in the league, and Derozan is 70th, and nobody thinks Derozan is a underpaid. Let me know when Derozan plays great defense on Luka Doncic in the finals em route to the Finals MVP. No one is raving about "rAPM" period because it's only nerds like you bringing that crap up after a star leads a team to the championship.


Just say you hate facts and are biased.Or you will what, continue to be wrong? That's going to happen regardless of whether or not my post makes you feel better about yourself.

[beasted]

I'll leave it at this, RE:

This statement is a clear indicator of your opinion, which doesn't seem particularly important to the Celtics, so they signed him to that huge deal and have rebuffed the various offers from other teams that apparently wish they could overpay him.

People were lining up to trade for Beal 2 years ago. People were lining up give Paul George his latest contract. People were lining up to get Markkanen.

People in high places in basketball make absolute shit decisions on a constant basis, just like Blazers trading away 32 year old expiring contract Jrue Holiday for Brogdon and a 1st 2 years ago, and then trading back for him 2.5 years later by giving up Simons and two 2nd rounders when he's making $34M for the next 3 years and is over 35.

Ultimately most of the time I've seen non perennial allstars get a max contract, it always ends the Beal, Middleton route. The good thing is the Celtics seem to be very smart in being able to fleece teams into taking garbage.

So, as a fan, I totally understand you don't believe there is much risk in paying Brown what he's paid. Again, what's not broken, don't try to fix. He's been a key contributor to winning and they're going to try and ride that until they need to dump him.

[Real Men Wear Green]

One more correction: Jaylen Brown is a perennial allstar. The difference between the Celtics and these teams you say are doing the wrong things is that they've consistently had a high level of success with Brown. There is a huge difference between Brown, a guy that can guard Luka Doncic for an entire finals and have that be a key factor in the Celtics winning and Derozan, who I'm going to guess no one can recall doing something like that on defense. Making the conference finals as many times as they have with Brown you would think people would realize that they know what they're doing. Guess not.

[ImKobe]

Sure let's ignore the fact that Ingram was drafted by the Lakers and played with years of lottery picks as well as one of the greatest players of all time. A team that promptly won a championship after they traded him. And let's also ignore that in his second year Brown led the Celtics (alongside another one of your favorites) to the conference finals after the Celtics two best players got injured. But it's all because Ingram got drafted by the Pelicans (who didn't draft him).

He played for bad Laker teams and got a blood clot as soon as he started taking that next step which cut his season short. On the Pels he never had a chance to do anything because Zion was hurt every single year.

Brown was the 3rd-4th best player on a ECF team his 2nd year, great.. A team that won a Game 7 without him and was up 1 - 0 in the next series before he even played.

Brown was drafted to a team that won 48 games, Tatum got drafted to a team that won 53.. You can't be serious.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You continue to ignore that Irving and Hayward had season-ending injuries. The team record they got led to by Isaiah Thomas the year before is completely irrelevant when he's playing in Cleveland. Why are you always so full of shit? You act like no one knows how these things went down. Even if I wasn't watching Google exists. Knock it off.

[beasted]

You continue to ignore that Irving and Hayward had season-ending injuries. The team record they got led to by Isaiah Thomas the year before is completely irrelevant when he's playing in Cleveland. Why are you always so full of shit? You act like no one knows how these things went down. Even if I wasn't watching Google exists. Knock it off.

The problem is that you don't see the other side of the coin and think we don't have Google also. Because you're tallying ECF appearances for a rookie who played all of 12 minutes per game in the playoffs with upside down defensive stats and poor efficiency as if he had any role or influence at all.

You don't think you have any bias and pretend as if facts don't exist.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The problem is that you don't see the other side of the coin and think we don't have Google also. Because you're tallying ECF appearances for a rookie who played all of 12 minutes per game in the playoffs with upside down defensive stats and poor efficiency as if he had any role or influence at all.

You don't think you have any bias and pretend as if facts don't exist. Wrong again. Nowhere do I talk about Jaylen Brown's rookie ECF appearance as if it was an accomplishment. I consistently mention five ECF appearances. But guess what? He's been to six. Yes, facts are important You should stick to them. :no:

[beasted]

Wrong again. Nowhere do I talk about Jaylen Brown's rookie ECF appearance as if it was an accomplishment. I consistently mention five ECF appearances. But guess what? He's been to six. Yes, facts are important You should stick to them. :no:

You clearly said been part of 6 in this same thread, as if he contributed in any meaningful way just because he played garbage time 5 minutes a game in his rookie season ECF. THOSE are the facts.

[Real Men Wear Green]

With that said... acknowledging that one of those years was not sure to his own play, before we rose the voices in beasted head again...6 Conference Finals in nine years is one hell of a ratio. And that's with one of those years they came up short him getting a season-ending injury and another of those years he didn't get a chance to lead the team the same way, losing his starting job with Hayward's return. That's an amazing ratio to think about.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You clearly said been part of 6 in this same thread, as if he contributed in any meaningful way just because he played garbage time 5 minutes a game in his rookie season ECF. THOSE are the facts.
This is sad. He was on the team as a rookie, so yes, he was "a part of" an ECF team as a rookie. Did not say he led it. Just that he was a part of it. You're getting desperate. This is pathetic. Go to sleep.

[beasted]

This is sad. He was on the team as a rookie, so yes, he was "a part of" an ECF team as a rookie. Did not say he led it. Just that he was a part of it. You're getting desperate. This is pathetic. Go to sleep.

No, no, no...:no:

You can't call someone else out for stating facts under the backdrop of bad context when you're doing the same. You need to finish your beer and step back inside off your porch, old man.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You need someone to explain to you what the word "part" means? Go argue with Miriam Webster.

[ImKobe]

You continue to ignore that Irving and Hayward had season-ending injuries. The team record they got led to by Isaiah Thomas the year before is completely irrelevant when he's playing in Cleveland. Why are you always so full of shit? You act like no one knows how these things went down. Even if I wasn't watching Google exists. Knock it off.

You're grasping at straws here. Celtics were a good team, a high seed because of Kyrie in the RS and they only had to beat the likes of Milwaukee and Philly who had next to no Playoff experience at the time and no HCA.

I'm not even sure what your argument is. I guess the rebuilding Laker squads and the Pelicans were comparable to the situation in Boston at the time. Yikes.

[warriorfan]

Lmao a poster brings up statistical evidence about Brown’s offense being below Derozan

Rmwg: but he has all star appearances and fmvp!

:roll:

rmwg is the ultimate homer casual

[Real Men Wear Green]

You're grasping at straws here. Celtics were a good team, a high seed because of Kyrie in the RS and they only had to beat the likes of Milwaukee and Philly who had next to no Playoff experience at the time and no HCA.

I'm not even sure what your argument is. I guess the rebuilding Laker squads and the Pelicans were comparable to the situation in Boston at the time. Yikes. The winning percentage with and without Irving was the same and more importantly Irving did not play in the playoffs. Again you try to ignore easily researched facts that I already knew. But if comparing second season Brown to what Ingram couldn't do playing with LeBron James I'll tell you what: pull out any part of Ingram's playoff career and show something as impressive as leading a team to the conference finals

[Real Men Wear Green]

Lmao a poster brings up statistical evidence about Brown’s offense being below Derozan

Rmwg: but he has all star appearances and fmvp!

:roll:

rmwg is the ultimate homer casual
With all the allstar teams Brown had made over Derozan there must be a lot of gone casuals. Or maybe you're just an idiot.

[warriorfan]

With all the allstar teams Brown had made over Derozan there must be a lot of gone casuals. Or maybe you're just an idiot.

Bringing up something as pointless as all star games when people are citing multiple advanced stats is as low iq as it gets.

Par for the course I guess.

[tpols]

With all the allstar teams Brown had made over Derozan there must be a lot of gone casuals. Or maybe you're just an idiot.

Youre done-zo bro. Just like how New York beat you up after you criticized them all year. Boston is going to be lotto without the whole crew Tatum and Brown ain't gonna save you.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Bringing up something as pointless as all star games when people are citing multiple advanced stats is as low iq as it gets.

Par for the course I guess.
There are more important things in the basketball world than "rAPM." Let me know when the NBA starts holding an annual awards weekend for honoring their best players based on this random advanced stat, the formula for which you would have to look up because you don't actually know what it means. Or much else beyond your pusher's phone number.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Youre done-zo bro. Just like how New York beat you up after you criticized them all year. Boston is going to be lotto without the whole crew Tatum and Brown ain't gonna save you.
Tatum and Brown made the Conference Finals 5 of the 8 years they played together and have never even lost in the first round the years that they both played in the playoffs. They may choose to tank next year but even that is doubtful if they keep White and Brown. If Tatum comes back strong they will resume their place in the upper echelon.

[warriorfan]

There are more important things in the basketball world than "rAPM." Let me know when the NBA starts holding an annual awards weekend for honoring their best players based on this random advanced stat, the formula for which you would have to look up because you don't actually know what it means. Or much else beyond your pusher's phone number.

lmfao

I do understand it. It’s plus minus refined through ridge regression to weigh the value of players in context of the plus minus.

Sometimes a player can have high raw plus minus if he was playing against a lot of second unit guys on the other team consistently. Or had playing time in garbage time. RAPM will not give as much credit to this player because it weighs in the quality of the players/lineup they are facing.

And it’s not just RAPM, like the other poster said, Derozen has him beat in many others as well. Knowing you, you will spaz out and not understand any of the stats and project your low iq that no one else does either. We all get it. You don’t. You having a low iq and not understanding statistics isn’t a valid talking point.

You are such a fat idiot. It’s quite insane.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You failed to post the formula of course. Idiots propping things they don't understand often post crap like you are right now. Meanwhile 30 out of 30 GMs would take Brown over Derozan.

[warriorfan]

You failed to post the formula of course. Idiots propping things they don't understand often post crap like you are right now. Meanwhile 30 out of 30 GMs would take Brown over Derozan.

I’m not going to do research for you that you won’t even understand. Educate your own fat ass and stop begging other people to do it for you.

You are straw manning, no one said derozan is better than Brown. The poster said if you look at it statistically Derozan has Brown beat in a lot of areas offensively.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So you don't understand rAPM. Already knew that thanks. The door's to the left.

[warriorfan]

So you don't understand rAPM. Already knew that thanks. The door's to the left.

I just explained it to you :roll:

Dumb ass fat f.uck

[Real Men Wear Green]

I just explained it to you :roll:

Dumb ass fat f.uck No you posted what it is supposed to represent. The actual formula, which you clearly do not understand, is not being posted and I "suspect" you have never actually seen it. If you had seen it and understood it you would shut me up with an intelligent post instead of the repetitive shitposting you always do.

RAPM supposedly adjusts plus-minus to account for one player having better teammates than another. Ok, how?When he was a Bull what did the RAPM formula do to account for him playing with Zach Lavine vs Brown playing with Tatum? Advanced stat formula are often influenced by the creator of the formulas opinion on the value of various stats. So which stat did the RAPM creator multiply by 0.79 or whatever random number they thought led to a more balanced result? How did they actually use "linear regression" (it's just an x vs y formula dumbass)?

You can't answer these questions because you don't know what you are talking about. Calling your knowledge here"superficial" would actually be overrating it.

[warriorfan]

No you posted what it is supposed to represent. The actual formula, which you clearly do not understand, is not being posted and I "suspect" you have never actually seen it. If you had seen it and understood it you would shut me up with an intelligent post instead of the repetitive shitposting you always do.

RAPM supposedly adjusts plus-minus to account for one player having better teammates than another. Ok, how?When he was a Bull what did the RAPM formula do to account for him playing with Zach Lavine vs Brown playing with Tatum? Advanced stat formula are often influenced by the creator of the formulas opinion on the value of various stats. So which stat did the RAPM creator multiply by 0.79 or whatever random number they thought led to a more balanced result? How did they actually use "linear regression" (it's just an x vs y formula dumbass)?

You can't answer these questions because you don't know what you are talking about. Calling your knowledge here"superficial" would actually be overrating it.

Figure it out fat man.

Saying “I’m too stupid to understand it” isn’t a valid talking point.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Still pretending your ignorance isn't obvious? Have fun.

[FultzNationRISE]

You failed to post the formula of course. Idiots propping things they don't understand often post crap like you are right now. Meanwhile 30 out of 30 GMs would take Brown over Derozan.

For just one season, with both at current salary (Demar making half what Brown makes) I do not think it would be 30 out of 30.

If you remove the long term value difference due to their ages, and just put each guy on a team and try to build around them for one season right now? It's not that big a difference. DeRozan IS a better and more consistent scorer, which is clear just from watching them play, so it's no surprise the metrics back it up as well. JB is a much better defender and probably a bit better playmaker. Overall they're not that different in impact IMO. JB has been fortunate to play on much better teams. Straight up I'd rather have Brown as most people would, but with the extra 25 million in salary you're gonna be able to put a better player next to Derozan, which probably makes their respective values close to even. Possibly even slighty favoring Derozan.

Some GM's would take Brown at his 50 million dollar salary, but I'm sure some would take Demar at $25M and the extra flexibility. Again, especially if it's just with an eye toward the next season or two, not in picking a long term cornerstone.

[beasted]

For just one season, with both at current salary (Demar making half what Brown makes) I do not think it would be 30 out of 30.

If you remove the long term value difference due to their ages, and just put each guy on a team and try to build around them for one season right now? It's not that big a difference. DeRozan IS a better and more consistent scorer, which is clear just from watching them play, so it's no surprise the metrics back it up as well. JB is a much better defender and probably a bit better playmaker. Overall they're not that different in impact IMO. JB has been fortunate to play on much better teams. Straight up I'd rather have Brown as most people would, but with the extra 25 million in salary you're gonna be able to put a better player next to Derozan, which probably makes their respective values close to even. Possibly even slighty favoring Derozan.

Some GM's would take Brown at his 50 million dollar salary, but I'm sure some would take Demar at $25M and the extra flexibility. Again, especially if it's just with an eye toward the next season or two, not in picking a long term cornerstone.

No no, this makes no sense. Brown by himself is better than Derozan + Reid, or Derozan + Josh Hart + $6M left over, or better than Derozan + JJJ, don't you see his Finals MVP??

[NBAGOAT]

No you posted what it is supposed to represent. The actual formula, which you clearly do not understand, is not being posted and I "suspect" you have never actually seen it. If you had seen it and understood it you would shut me up with an intelligent post instead of the repetitive shitposting you always do.

RAPM supposedly adjusts plus-minus to account for one player having better teammates than another. Ok, how?When he was a Bull what did the RAPM formula do to account for him playing with Zach Lavine vs Brown playing with Tatum? Advanced stat formula are often influenced by the creator of the formulas opinion on the value of various stats. So which stat did the RAPM creator multiply by 0.79 or whatever random number they thought led to a more balanced result? How did they actually use "linear regression" (it's just an x vs y formula dumbass)?

You can't answer these questions because you don't know what you are talking about. Calling your knowledge here"superficial" would actually be overrating it.

Apm uses a linear regression. No it’s not just a x and y formula. You can solve for as many variables as you want not just one. A 5 man lineup vs another 5 man lineup will produce some plus minus. You take every scenario and solve for every player. When you have too many variables you have a multicollinearity problem which means multiple variable are too correlated so you can’t isolate impact. In nba terms means say Tatum plays so many of his minutes with brown so is his plus minus good because of himself or because of brown. You can determine that by watching the games but that’s purely subjective a stat isn’t that.

Idk the Math to ridge regression well but rapm uses it to take care of the multicollinearity problem so there’s much less of a is Tatum only good because he plays with brown problem. https://apbr.org/metrics/viewtopic.php?t=8232. This thread explains it better than me. Yes you have to pick some lambda but you use cross validation to pick out those values it’s not based on creators biased opinion about nba players. That means you divide say a whole season into multiple datasets(the program does it for you). You run your regression on the other datasets to make sure it performs well on every dataset not just the initial one you test on. You bringing up the 0.79 like you’re talking about PER shows you don’t know the stat. Source: I did this damn shit in stats class even though I’m rusty.

Also there are other ways to take of multicollinearoty mainly just having multi year larger sample sizes. Say you think Derozan was only good because of lowry. You can’t really say that if his 3 yr apm including his years in San Antonio were good and you have more minutes of Derozan playing without Lowry

[ImKobe]

The winning percentage with and without Irving was the same and more importantly Irving did not play in the playoffs. Again you try to ignore easily researched facts that I already knew. But if comparing second season Brown to what Ingram couldn't do playing with LeBron James I'll tell you what: pull out any part of Ingram's playoff career and show something as impressive as leading a team to the conference finals

What Ingram couldn't do? He had to sit out the rest of his season because of a blood clot.. He grew into a #2 role that year playing next to Lebron and averaged over 20 a game on elite efficiency for months before he was forced to stop playing. Him leading the Pelicans to the Playoffs (a team that was 7 - 20 without him) with Zion sitting out the '22 season was more impressive than Brown being a #3 on a team that won 2 series with home court.


Either way, Brown is not worth the supermax and the Celtics should look to move him if they want to build a new contender around Tatum. They're taking offers for Brown/White as we speak.

[ReturnofJPR]

Kblaze still has that stupid Spider-Man thing going. At least he is a bulls fan. Boston has almost 3/4 of a billion dollars invested. They have to shed payroll somehow. And here is one way

[ReturnofJPR]

Multiple reputable people have said they started listening to offers for Brown too though they aren’t outright soliciting them. Apparently it’s gone from ignoring them to considering it.

They really might go scorched earth. They really could get themselves a thunder like haul where they have 20ish first round picks the next 5 to 7 years if they wanted to.

If they get rid of brown, they might as well try to find four first rounders for white as well.

Get themselves more than a dozen total picks have 80 or 90 million in cap space tank next season And see who wants to come play with Tatum and all the first rounders in the world.

if you’re gonna blow it up, don’t **** around with it.

Kblaze is most likely Asian with a small peen

[Real Men Wear Green]

No no, this makes no sense. Brown by himself is better than Derozan + Reid, or Derozan + Josh Hart + $6M left over, or better than Derozan + JJJ, don't you see his Finals MVP??
Brown by himself does have more trade value than any of those combinations.
Apm uses a linear regression. No it’s not just a x and y formula. You can solve for as many variables as you want not just one. A 5 man lineup vs another 5 man lineup will produce some plus minus. You take every scenario and solve for every player. When you have too many variables you have a multicollinearity problem which means multiple variable are too correlated so you can’t isolate impact. In nba terms means say Tatum plays so many of his minutes with brown so is his plus minus good because of himself or because of brown. You can determine that by watching the games but that’s purely subjective a stat isn’t that.It's an a,b, c, d,e....formula. Which no one discussing it in this thread actually knows.
Idk the Math to ridge regression well but rapm uses it to take care of the multicollinearity problem I give you a small amount of credit for honesty but this line means that you don't truly understand RAPM, you just know what it's supposed to represent.
You bringing up the 0.79 like you’re talking about PER shows you don’t know the stat.I never said I did, Been pretty upfront about not valuing it at all because most of the people talking about it don't know where the number is coming from. Real world fans don't care about this at all, never even heard of it.
What Ingram couldn't do? He had to sit out the rest of his season because of a blood clot.. He grew into a #2 role that year playing next to Lebron and averaged over 20 a game on elite efficiency for months before he was forced to stop playing. Him leading the Pelicans to the Playoffs (a team that was 7 - 20 without him) with Zion sitting out the '22 season was more impressive than Brown being a #3 on a team that won 2 series with home court.9 years of excuses and counting.



Either way, Brown is not worth the supermax and the Celtics should look to move him if they want to build a new contender around Tatum. They're taking offers for Brown/White as we speak.And yet somehow it's other teams trying to trade for him with his supermax and the Celtics saying"no."

[NBAGOAT]

Brown by himself does have more trade value than any of those combinations.It's an a,b, c, d,e....formula. Which no one discussing it in this thread actually knows.I give you a small amount of credit for honesty but this line means that you don't truly understand RAPM, you just know what it's supposed to represent. I never said I did, Been pretty upfront about not valuing it at all because most of the people talking about it don't know where the number is coming from. Real world fans don't care about this at all, never even heard of it.9 years of excuses and counting.


And yet somehow it's other teams trying to trade for him with his supermax and the Celtics saying"no."

A,b,c,d,e jist represent the 5 players. Easier to not explain it in a too mathey way on this forum however so I don’t. I mean I only don’t know the math too well though if I put some time in I could make my own rapm I think. It uses a different regression than linear regression that’s the main difference. I do know how cross validation works it’s a really good method to take estimate the lambda. You’ll get a slightly different lambda and different results because of variance not bias. A bunch of people online have coded and produced their own rapm creator posted his methodology.

Fans don’t care but who cares about what we think. NBA front offices use them and send bunch of guys to Sloan every year. Rapm is a bit outdated but there are better impact metrics out there not even publicly available. The reason pipm isn’t publicly available anymore is the creator got hired by the wizards. Front offices are using some all in one metric

[beasted]

Brown by himself does have more trade value than any of those combinations.
You have a nasty habit of bringing up totally irrelevant points during a discussion, such as a 2023-24 Finals MVP when comparing two player's performances in the 2024-25 season.

As an FYI, my reply was to this post and in the context framework of this post which has absolutely nothing to do with trade value, even though I don't agree with your position anyway.


For just one season, with both at current salary (Demar making half what Brown makes) I do not think it would be 30 out of 30.

If you remove the long term value difference due to their ages, and just put each guy on a team and try to build around them for one season right now? It's not that big a difference. DeRozan IS a better and more consistent scorer, which is clear just from watching them play, so it's no surprise the metrics back it up as well. JB is a much better defender and probably a bit better playmaker. Overall they're not that different in impact IMO. JB has been fortunate to play on much better teams. Straight up I'd rather have Brown as most people would, but with the extra 25 million in salary you're gonna be able to put a better player next to Derozan, which probably makes their respective values close to even. Possibly even slighty favoring Derozan.

Some GM's would take Brown at his 50 million dollar salary, but I'm sure some would take Demar at $25M and the extra flexibility. Again, especially if it's just with an eye toward the next season or two, not in picking a long term cornerstone.

[ReturnofJPR]

Boston gave it a great run but this isn’t baseball. Their payroll is too high, way too high. With key players coming off of serious injuries, they will shed more players since they didn’t win a thing. Go Thunder!