The Top 10 Defenders in NBA History (In terms of impact)

[1987_Lakers]

1. Bill Russell
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. David Robinson
4. Dikembe Mutombo
5. Tim Duncan
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Ben Wallace
8. Draymond Green
9. Dwight Howard
10. Nate Thurmond

HM: Wilt, Gobert, Pippen, Ewing (overshadowed by Hakeem & Robinson)

[SouBeachTalents]

My slight nitpicks

I would've probably added Wilt to the list, but I understand all these guys have legitimate claims to make it

I would've probably put Duncan & KG ahead of Dikembe, but if you have data to support otherwise I'd love to see it

Rodman would have at least been an HM

[Xiao Yao You]

Leaving off a 4 time dpoty :rolleyes:

[L.Kizzle]

1. Bill Russell
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. David Robinson
4. Dikembe Mutombo
5. Tim Duncan
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Ben Wallace
8. Draymond Green
9. Dwight Howard
10. Nate Thurmond

HM: Wilt, Gobert, Pippen, Ewing (overshadowed by Hakeem & Robinson)
Impact as far as what? KG is here but not Wilt, explain.

[1987_Lakers]

My slight nitpicks

I would've probably added Wilt to the list, but I understand all these guys have legitimate claims to make it

I would've probably put Duncan & KG ahead of Dikembe, but if you have data to support otherwise I'd love to see it

Rodman would have at least been an HM

I have a hard time ranking Wilt defensively. I tried to take defensive longevity into consideration in these rankings and Wilt in particular didn't peak until the 2nd half of his career on that end, even then there are some things I question about that time frame.

- Lakers didn't see much improvement on the defensive end when they added him in 1969.
- Lakers had a top 4 defense in 1970 with Wilt only playing 12 games that season
- Lakers had an average defense in 1971 with Wilt playing 82 games

Just some inconsistencies that make me question if he deserves top 10.

Someone like Dwight Howard at his defensive peak was leading a below average cast defensively to a top 1-3 on defense for 3 straight years.

[L.Kizzle]

I have a hard time ranking Wilt defensively. I tried to take defensive longevity into consideration in these rankings and Wilt in particular didn't peak until the 2nd half of his career on that end, even then there are some things I question about that time frame. Lakers didn't see much improvement on the defensive end when they added him in 1969.

- Lakers had a top 4 defense in 1970 with Wilt only playing 12 games that season
- Lakers had an average defense in 1971 with Wilt playing 82 games

Just some inconsistencies that make me question if he deserves top 10.

Someone like Dwight Howard at his defensive peak was leading a below average cast defensively to a top 1-3 on defense for 3 straight years.
Every player is the 60s and 70s states Wilt was the strongest and blocked like 10+ shots a game on top of 30 rebounds.
What other information do you need, a stat from basketball reference?

[highwhey]

Not surprised that its pretty much a big-only exclusive list. defensive wings are overrated unless you're capable of guarding 5 out which most wings/guards cannot. rodman and lebron come to mind as far as being able to guard pretty much anyone. also another reason why some chips are more valuable than others...you think luka makes the finals without lively? hell nah. shai without chet? FVCK no, wouldn't make it past nuggets without caruso even. the list goes on. but then there's lebronzo, didn't need no defensive anchor, he was an independent man https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/5I5s8.png

[1987_Lakers]

Every player is the 60s and 70s states Wilt was the strongest and blocked like 10+ shots a game on top of 30 rebounds.
What other information do you need, a stat from basketball reference?

Where the team ranks on the defensive end is usually a good indicator of how impactful they are. Wilt doesn't cut it for me, but I don't have an issue with anyone having him top 10.

I know that is not the perfect system. Mutombo played on some bad defensive teams, until you dig deeper on how impactful he was.

'91 Nuggets: #27 ranked defense (Dead last)
'92 Nuggets: #13. With rookie Mutombo.

'96 Nuggets: #17 defense
'97 Nuggets: #24 defense (No Mutombo). Nuggets replaced him with a good defensive player, Ervin Johnson, who was #3 in blocks that season. Still a noticeable drop off.

'96 Hawks: #16 defense
'97 Hawks: #3 defense (With Mutombo)

[ArbitraryWater]

Every player is the 60s and 70s states Wilt was the strongest and blocked like 10+ shots a game on top of 30 rebounds.
What other information do you need, a stat from basketball reference?

Definitely. Players exaggerate hard from their era.


Here is Shumpert talking about a random Kobe game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvuaGxOVXyo&lc=Ugz07jvDc-ebsG7mKuN4AaABAg&ab_channel=CBSSports



This is that game:

https://i.gyazo.com/217c02608ed26c6f93cc11fc45988e2b.png


11/29, lost by 7, game was never even ****ing close in the 4th quarter. Even in said 4th quarter Kobe was a measy 5/12.

[Xiao Yao You]

Where the team ranks on the defensive end is usually a good indicator of how impactful they are. Wilt doesn't cut it for me, but I don't have an issue with anyone having him top 10.

I know that is not the perfect system. Mutombo played on some bad defensive teams, until you dig deeper on how impactful he was.

'91 Nuggets: #27 ranked defense (Dead last)
'92 Nuggets: #13. With rookie Mutombo.

'96 Nuggets: #17 defense
'97 Nuggets: #24 defense (No Mutombo). Nuggets replaced him with a good defensive player, Ervin Johnson, who was #3 in blocks that season. Still a noticeable drop off.

'96 Hawks: #16 defense
'97 Hawks: #3 defense (With Mutombo)

Blocks and steals dont mean someone is a good defender

[warriorfan]

Blocks and steals dont mean someone is a good defender

Getting hunted and cooked off the floor when playoffs come around does?

:lol

[1987_Lakers]

Blocks and steals dont mean someone is a good defender

For steals? I agree. I think blocks are a better indicator even though there are inconsistencies.

Johnson led the Nuggets in defensive rating in '97 which means he was most likely their most impactful defender.

[Xiao Yao You]

Getting hunted and cooked off the floor when playoffs come around does?

:lol

Cant skip me!

[Xiao Yao You]

For steals? I agree. I think blocks are a better indicator even though there are inconsistencies.

Johnson led the Nuggets in defensive rating in '97 which means he was most likely their most impactful defender.

Im reminded often that drtg means nothing. Supposedly gobert is the reason wolves lost despite leading in ofrtg and drtg. Whiteside blocked shots. A bum. Kessler blocks shots. Jazz worst d in league past 2 years

[L.Kizzle]

Definitely. Players exaggerate hard from their era.


Here is Shumpert talking about a random Kobe game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvuaGxOVXyo&lc=Ugz07jvDc-ebsG7mKuN4AaABAg&ab_channel=CBSSports



This is that game:

https://i.gyazo.com/217c02608ed26c6f93cc11fc45988e2b.png


11/29, lost by 7, game was never even ****ing close in the 4th quarter. Even in said 4th quarter Kobe was a measy 5/12.
We can go back and watch this game, not Wilt. And it's freaking Iman Shumpert. These Wilt stories are from Hall of Famers.

[Baller234]

Blocks and steals dont mean someone is a good defender

If you're leading in these categories it's usually an indication of effort and hustle.

The guys who were usually at the top of the league in steals (Jordan, Pippen, Payton, Stockton, Mookie) were all known for being absolute pests on defense. The guys who led in blocks (Dream, Admiral, Mutumbo) were all elite interior guys.

Not a coincidence.

[L.Kizzle]

I have a hard time ranking Wilt defensively. I tried to take defensive longevity into consideration in these rankings and Wilt in particular didn't peak until the 2nd half of his career on that end, even then there are some things I question about that time frame.

- Lakers didn't see much improvement on the defensive end when they added him in 1969.
- Lakers had a top 4 defense in 1970 with Wilt only playing 12 games that season
- Lakers had an average defense in 1971 with Wilt playing 82 games

Just some inconsistencies that make me question if he deserves top 10.

Someone like Dwight Howard at his defensive peak was leading a below average cast defensively to a top 1-3 on defense for 3 straight years.I just checked his team's defensive rankings. Warriors and Sixers were usually 2nd (behind Boston) a few 3rd and even had a 1st place defensive ratings. He was hurt the majority of his Laker career.

[Xiao Yao You]

If you're leading in these categories it's usually an indication of effort and hustle.

The guys who were usually at the top of the league in steals (Jordan, Pippen, Payton, Stockton, Mookie) were all known for being absolute pests on defense. The guys who led in blocks (Dream, Admiral, Mutumbo) were all elite interior guys.

Not a coincidence.

Getting steals could be playing in passing lanes and gambling while giving up many buckets. Guys that try to block everything arent in position to secure rebounds and give up east put backs. rubio got steals playing behind his man hoping gobert would cover for him if he failed

[1987_Lakers]

We can go back and watch this game, not Wilt. And it's freaking Iman Shumpert. These Wilt stories are from Hall of Famers.

I didn't realize people who make the hall of fame are usually better people who don't exaggerate. :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

I just checked his team's defensive rankings. Warriors and Sixers were usually 2nd (behind Boston) a few 3rd and even had a 1st place defensive ratings. He was hurt the majority of his Laker career.

Lie.

1961: #3
1962: #3
1963: #5

Keep in mind this is in a 8-9 team league. So it's not the same as being #3 in today's league out of 29 teams.

In 1962 for example, when ranked #3, the Warriors had a 92.4 DRTG when the league average was 93.3. They were not too far off league average.

[ArbitraryWater]

We can go back and watch this game, not Wilt. And it's freaking Iman Shumpert. These Wilt stories are from Hall of Famers.

Your point being?


And it's freaking Iman Shumpert. These Wilt stories are from Hall of Famers.

So what?

[1987_Lakers]

L.Kizzle, weren't you supposed to make this project during the offseason?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?521883-New-Topic-Projects-For-The-Offseason

[tpols]

To put Dray above Pat Ewing and Wilt Chamberlain is pure lunacy.

[1987_Lakers]

To put Dray above Pat Ewing and Wilt Chamberlain is pure lunacy.

And saying Siakam > Giannis isn't.

[L.Kizzle]

Lie.

1961: #3
1962: #3
1963: #5

Keep in mind this is in a 8-9 team league. So it's not the same as being #3 in today's league out of 29 teams.

In 1962 for example, when ranked #3, the Warriors had a 92.4 DRTG when the league average was 93.3. They were not too far off league average.
You have Garnett at like 5 and his Minnesota teams were below average.

[L.Kizzle]

L.Kizzle, weren't you supposed to make this project during the offseason?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?521883-New-Topic-Projects-For-The-Offseason
Which topic should we roll with?

[tpols]

And saying Siakam > Giannis isn't.

Its even more absurd than that. You didn't even mention Dennis Rodman either. This a clown thread. :lol

[1987_Lakers]

2007 Wolves: #21 defense
2008 Wolves (Without KG): #27 defense. Wolves saw their DRTG increase more than +3.

2007 Celtics: #16 defense
2008 Celtics with KG: #1. Historically dominant too.

[1987_Lakers]

Which topic should we roll with?

I'm cool with this one or peaks.

[warriorfan]

2007 Wolves: #21 defense
2008 Wolves (Without KG): #27 defense. Wolves saw their DRTG increase more than +3.

2007 Celtics: #16 defense
2008 Celtics with KG: #1. Historically dominant too.

KG replaced Ryan Gomes.

Rondo in his second year got a significantly bigger role. No more Telfair.

Ray Allen was playing instead of Delonte West.

Perk played a lot more minutes at C instead of Al Jefferson.


KG was the anchor of the defense obviously but the 2008 team was very different from the 2007.

[1987_Lakers]

KG replaced Ryan Gomes.

Rondo in his second year got a significantly bigger role. No more Telfair.

Ray Allen was playing instead of Delonte West.

Perk played a lot more minutes at C instead of Al Jefferson.


KG was the anchor of the defense obviously but the 2008 team was very different from the 2007.

Rondo was far from his prime & since when was Allen a defensive stopper?

2013 Celtics: #7 on defense
2014 Celtics: #18 (No KG)

This is old man KG btw.

[warriorfan]

Rondo was far from his prime & since when was Allen a defensive stopper?

2013 Celtics: #7 on defense
2014 Celtics: #18 (No KG)

This is old man KG btw.

The team was obviously a lot better in 2008 for many reasons.

Rondo >Telfair
Allen isn’t a known stopper but he isn’t a slouch and a much higher iq and better player than Delonte West

A competitive team will naturally have better defense. Correlation doesn’t equal causation.

2007 Celtics were basically a 60 loss team. In tons of those games it becomes a blow out and it’s not a competitive game.

KG obviously is a huge factor but you are lumping all these other factors in and crediting it all to KG, which is inaccurate.

[1987_Lakers]

The team was obviously a lot better in 2008 for many reasons.

Rondo >Telfair
Allen isn’t a known stopper but he isn’t a slouch and a much higher iq and better player than Delonte West

A competitive team will naturally have better defense. Correlation doesn’t equal causation.

2007 Celtics were basically a 60 loss team. In tons of those games it becomes a blow out and it’s not a competitive game.

I agree with Rondo/Perkins getting more playing time it contributed to them being better on defense, I just find it odd how you mention Ray Allen as some plus defensively over Delonte West, when West was always known as a plus defender. Allen wasn't some upgrade over him on defense.

[1987_Lakers]

Even then, Perkins only played a few more minutes per game in 2008 compared to 2007 for Boston.

With what you said, the only real difference was Rondo and of course KG. And Rondo was still green. (no pun)

You could have gone with the Tony Allen route, who played more games in 2008, but instead went with Ray Allen. :lol

[warriorfan]

Even then, Perkins only played a few more minutes per game in 2008 compared to 2007 for Boston.

With what you said, the only real difference was Rondo and of course KG. And Rondo was still green. (no pun)

You could have gone with the Tony Allen route, who played more games in 2008, but instead went with Ray Allen. :lol

You are low iq and don’t understand how offense influences defense.

[Carbine]

Wemby should be on there if it's just about impact

[Xiao Yao You]

Wemby should be on there if it's just about impact
Than you would have to put walton if we are going on limited games

[97 bulls]

1. Bill Russell
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. David Robinson
4. Dikembe Mutombo
5. Tim Duncan
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Ben Wallace
8. Draymond Green
9. Dwight Howard
10. Nate Thurmond

HM: Wilt, Gobert, Pippen, Ewing (overshadowed by Hakeem & Robinson)

How did Green make the list over Pippen?

[L.Kizzle]

135 games of Bill Russell data where he avg 8.1 blocks
112 games of Wilt Chamberlain data where he avg 8.8 blocks.
Wilt one blocked Walt Bellamys first 9 shots because "he wanted to."
This would be like Hakeem blocking Alonzo Mourning first 9 shots because he wanted to.
Old Laker career blocked Kareems sky-hook twice in a row.

Go head and add Wilt Chamberlain bruh and stop playing.

[tpols]

135 games of Bill Russell data where he avg 8.1 blocks
112 games of Wilt Chamberlain data where he avg 8.8 blocks.
Wilt one blocked Walt Bellamys first 9 shots because "he wanted to."
This would be like Hakeem blocking Alonzo Mourning first 9 shots because he wanted to.
Old Laker career blocked Kareems sky-hook twice in a row.

Go head and add Wilt Chamberlain bruh and stop playing.


Wilt is probably the most disrespected GOAT.

The guy was literally 7 foot black superman. And scrubs get placed ahead of him. :facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

You are low iq and don’t understand how offense influences defense.

You are low IQ who doesn't know how to refute what I said.

[1987_Lakers]

How did Green make the list over Pippen?

Better at guarding 1-5
Better rim protector
Better off-ball defender

Just a bit more versatile and more of an anchor. Steve Kerr played with peak Pippen and has said Draymond is the better defender.

[diamenz]

no wind defenders?

[1987_Lakers]

no wind defenders?

Damn, you went way back in time. I remember that thread from around 2015. :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

Better at guarding 1-5
Better rim protector
Better off-ball defender

Just a bit more versatile and more of an anchor. Steve Kerr played with peak Pippen and has said Draymond is the better defender.

Toughest era to defend in.. only 1 from that era top 10? :facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

Toughest era to defend in.. only 1 from that era top 10? :facepalm

Can't quit me.

[Xiao Yao You]

Not trying to :coleman:

[L.Kizzle]

KG over Ben Wallace too, how?

[1987_Lakers]

KG over Ben Wallace too, how?

KG was a much better man defender & more versatile. Wallace was obviously the better rim protector, but there was a lot to be desired with his man defense mostly because of his size. You could argue they had similar peaks in terms of impact, might even say Wallace was more impactful, but KG's defensive prime was much longer. There was a 6 year stretch or so when Ben Wallace was a top tier defender, KG was a defensive menace for 12+ years.

[L.Kizzle]

KG was a much better man defender & more versatile. Wallace was obviously the better rim protector, but there was a lot to be desired with his man defense mostly because of his size. You could argue they had similar peaks in terms of impact, might even say Wallace was more impactful, but KG's defensive prime was much longer. There was a 6 year stretch or so when Ben Wallace was a top tier defender, KG was a defensive menace for 12+ years.
You literally said Ben Wallace was more impactful. KG miss be paying you under the table to be ranked over Wilt and Big Ben Wallace.

[1987_Lakers]

You literally said Ben Wallace was more impactful. KG miss be paying you under the table to be ranked over Wilt and Big Ben Wallace.

KG was more impactful for more years.

If I just ignored longevity, I would have listed Walton. Easily would have made top 5.

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYYR4imoi-I

[L.Kizzle]

KG was more impactful for more years.

If I just ignored longevity, I would have listed Walton. Easily would have made top 5.
Don't you list McHale over Karl Malone due to one season lol.

What's more impactful than Ben's defense. He won 4 DPOY, twice back to back. They were in the NBA Finals or Conference Finals the seasons he won the award. Funny enough the years he comes in 2nd the Pistons win the championship.
What's more impactful than that?

[1987_Lakers]

Don't you list McHale over Karl Malone due to one season lol.

What's more impactful than Ben's defense. He won 4 DPOY, twice back to back. They were in the NBA Finals or Conference Finals the seasons he won the award. Funny enough the years he comes in 2nd the Pistons win the championship.
What's more impactful than that?

I don't have McHale ranked ahead of Malone as a player, if we are talking peaks though. I'm taking McHale.

Duncan never won a DPOY award. Should he be left off the list? I already gave you my reasoning. Wallace was an elite defender for 6 years, both Duncan and KG dominated on defense from their early 20's well into their mid 30's. Hell, I remember Duncan getting DPOY buzz well into his late 30's.

The fact that I have Ben Wallace at #7 with such a short defensive prime compared to other bigs should already tell you how much I value his defense.

Let's see your top 10.

[Axe]

https://assets-cms.thescore.com/uploads/image/file/769159/w640xh480_GettyImages-2197302625.jpg?ts=1738820343 (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPZqPRPHIF2xVI5uiUFQ7DcZyo3SNqM MQAlw&usqp=CAU)

He's a great player but why isn't he included in your top 10? He's been said to be the best two-way player the league has seen in the modern era.

At least according to the most narcissistic homocasual itb.

[L.Kizzle]

I don't have McHale ranked ahead of Malone as a player, if we are talking peaks though. I'm taking McHale.

Duncan never won a DPOY award. Should he be left off the list? I already gave you my reasoning. Wallace was an elite defender for 6 years, both Duncan and KG dominated on defense from their early 20's well into their mid 30's. Hell, I remember Duncan getting DPOY buzz well into his late 30's.

The fact that I have Ben Wallace at #7 with such a short defensive prime compared to other bigs should already tell you how much I value his defense.

Let's see your top 10.
Russell
Wilt
Hakeem
Wallace
Mutombo
Duncan
Robinson
Dwight
Thurmond
Garnett

Right below
Rodman
Zo
Giannis
Draymond
Ewing

Didn't do any wings/guards

[iamgine]

I have a hard time ranking Wilt defensively. I tried to take defensive longevity into consideration in these rankings and Wilt in particular didn't peak until the 2nd half of his career on that end, even then there are some things I question about that time frame.

- Lakers didn't see much improvement on the defensive end when they added him in 1969.
- Lakers had a top 4 defense in 1970 with Wilt only playing 12 games that season
- Lakers had an average defense in 1971 with Wilt playing 82 games

Just some inconsistencies that make me question if he deserves top 10.

Someone like Dwight Howard at his defensive peak was leading a below average cast defensively to a top 1-3 on defense for 3 straight years.

Even when Wilt left Warriors to Philly in the middle of 1965, it didn't seem Philly improved their defense nor Warriors defense got worse that season. You'd think a defensive monster with 10+ blocks a game playing 44+ minutes a game would improve defense.

Such strange case.

[John8204]

To make the John Stockton argument...why do blocks count more than steals? If you are getting possessions through turnovers that is successful defense.

[1987_Lakers]

Russell
Wilt
Hakeem
Wallace
Mutombo
Duncan
Robinson
Dwight
Thurmond
Garnett

Right below
Rodman
Zo
Giannis
Draymond
Ewing

Didn't do any wings/guards

Wilt at #2 is insane. :oldlol:


Even when Wilt left Warriors to Philly in the middle of 1965, it didn't seem Philly improved their defense nor Warriors defense got worse that season. You'd think a defensive monster with 10+ blocks a game playing 44+ minutes a game would improve defense.

Such strange case.

Strange case indeed.

1965

Warriors full season: 87.7 ORtg, 92.8 DRtg
Warriors with Wilt: 90.3 ORtg, 94.4 DRtg
Warriors without Wilt: 86.2 ORtg, 92.3 DRtg

Sixers full season: 94.1 ORtg, 94.2 DRtg
Sixers with Wilt: 94.7 ORtg, 94.5 DRtg
Sixers without Wilt: 93.5 ORtg, 93.9 DRtg

I really don't understand it, Wilt made both teams worse on defense :oldlol:

To me, the only years where it seemed Wilt played some ATG defense was in '67, '68, '72, & '73.

[L.Kizzle]

Wilt at number two insane how?
If they kept blocked shots as a stat, he'd easily be number 1 plus he's number one in rebounds by a wide margin.

He's also number 5 in defense win shares. Do with that information what you'd like.

[1987_Lakers]

Wilt didn't even make the All-Defensive team (1st or 2nd team) in 1969 & 1971. :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Wilt at #2 is insane. :oldlol:



Strange case indeed.

1965

Warriors full season: 87.7 ORtg, 92.8 DRtg
Warriors with Wilt: 90.3 ORtg, 94.4 DRtg
Warriors without Wilt: 86.2 ORtg, 92.3 DRtg

Sixers full season: 94.1 ORtg, 94.2 DRtg
Sixers with Wilt: 94.7 ORtg, 94.5 DRtg
Sixers without Wilt: 93.5 ORtg, 93.9 DRtg

I really don't understand it, Wilt made both teams worse on defense :oldlol:

To me, the only years where it seemed Wilt played some ATG defense was in '67, '68, '72, & '73.

And maybe '66.

[L.Kizzle]

Wilt didn't even make the All-Defensive team (1st or 2nd team) in 1969 & 1971. :lol

Wilt also didn't make the All NBA teams in 69 or 71. That's was back when players voted and they obviously didn't like him that season to vote Rudy LaRusso over him lol.
He also made first team in 72 and 73.
But, I'm looking at the voting and Dave DeBusschere is number one in votes for five seasons straight

[1987_Lakers]

Imagine someone like a prime Duncan leaving the Spurs and they get better defensively, or KG leaving Boston, or even Draymond. It wouldn't happen.

You saw this happen with Wilt a couple of times.

#2 is insane.

[L.Kizzle]

Imagine someone like a prime Duncan leaving the Spurs and they get better defensively, or KG leaving Boston, or even Draymond. It wouldn't happen.

You saw this happen with Wilt a couple of times.

#2 is insane.

Season after a Wilt left Warrors, they win 35. Last full season with him they win 48 and in the Finals.

Season before he joined Sixers, they're 34-46. First full season with Sixers they're 55-25. 2nd full season with Philly they win the championship.

[1987_Lakers]

2009 Celtics

DRTG with KG: 99.2
DRTG without KG: 109.5

KG > Wilt

[1987_Lakers]

Season after a Wilt left Warrors, they win 35. Last full season with him they win 48 and in the Finals.

Season before he joined Sixers, they're 34-46. First full season with Sixers they're 55-25. 2nd full season with Philly they win the championship.

Can you explain why the 2nd greatest defender in NBA history has this on his resume?

1965

Warriors full season: 87.7 ORtg, 92.8 DRtg
Warriors with Wilt: 90.3 ORtg, 94.4 DRtg
Warriors without Wilt: 86.2 ORtg, 92.3 DRtg

Sixers full season: 94.1 ORtg, 94.2 DRtg
Sixers with Wilt: 94.7 ORtg, 94.5 DRtg
Sixers without Wilt: 93.5 ORtg, 93.9 DRtg

1968 Lakers (without Wilt): #7 defense ( DRTG -0.2 worse than league average)
1969 Lakers: #8 defense ( DRTG +0.6 better than league average)
1970 Lakers (without Wilt): #4 defense (DRTG +1.6 better than league average)
1971 Lakers: #8 defense: (DRTG +1.2 better than league average)

Wilt only slightly improves their defense when he arrives in 1969. The Lakers had their best defensive team in that 4 year period in 1970 when Wilt basically misses the whole season. :lol

That is not the type of impact I expect from the 2nd greatest defender ever.

[L.Kizzle]

Can you explain why the 2nd greatest defender in NBA history has this on his resume?

1965

Warriors full season: 87.7 ORtg, 92.8 DRtg
Warriors with Wilt: 90.3 ORtg, 94.4 DRtg
Warriors without Wilt: 86.2 ORtg, 92.3 DRtg

Sixers full season: 94.1 ORtg, 94.2 DRtg
Sixers with Wilt: 94.7 ORtg, 94.5 DRtg
Sixers without Wilt: 93.5 ORtg, 93.9 DRtg

1968 Lakers (without Wilt): #7 defense ( DRTG -0.2 worse than league average)
1969 Lakers: #8 defense ( DRTG +0.6 better than league average)
1970 Lakers (without Wilt): #4 defense (DRTG +1.6 better than league average)
1971 Lakers: #8 defense: (DRTG +1.2 better than league average)

Wilt only slightly improves their defense when he arrives in 1969. Lakers have their best defense in that 4 year period in 1970 when Willt basically misses the whole season. :lol

That is not the type of impact I expect from the 2nd greatest defender ever.
So, they got better defensively but lost more games each time he left. Got it.

[Im Still Ballin]

Don't you list McHale over Karl Malone due to one season lol.

What's more impactful than Ben's defense. He won 4 DPOY, twice back to back. They were in the NBA Finals or Conference Finals the seasons he won the award. Funny enough the years he comes in 2nd the Pistons win the championship.
What's more impactful than that?

Don't disrespect peak McHale, bruh. Don't make me pull out The Facts.

[1987_Lakers]

So, they got better defensively but lost more games each time he left. Got it.

You thought I was done?

Wilt returned to the playoffs in 1970 and the Lakers DRTG during that postseason run was -0.4 worse than league average.

:oldlol:

Wilt at #2 is INSANE!

You talk about blocked shots, but fail to realize guys like Hakeem, Mutombo, & D-Rob would have had just as many if not more blocks than Wilt if they played in that fast paced era.

[L.Kizzle]

You thought I was done?

Wilt returned to the playoffs in 1970 and the Lakers DRTG during that postseason run was -0.4 worse than league average.

:oldlol:

Wilt at #2 is INSANE!

You talk about blocked shots, but fail to realize guys like Hakeem, Mutombo, & D-Rob would have had just as many if not more blocks than Wilt if they played in that fast paced era.
Wait, 1970. The season he only played 2 weeks in the regular
seaaon and they still made the Finals. Just checking.

[1987_Lakers]

Wait, 1970. The season he only played 2 weeks in the regular
seaaon and they still made the Finals. Just checking.

You just keep ignoring the actual defensive data. Stop deflecting.

A simple search will tell you the Lakers offense got better in 1970 when Wilt came back, they were the best offensive team during the postseason with Wilt, but got worse on defense.

[tpols]

Wilt was a 7foot plus Olympian level Athlete... a total freak. We probably haven't seen a big man talent like him physically ever outside of Shaq. Who was lazier and slower. If anything because he had to totally carry his teams offense, he didn't have as much juice for defense. But I dont even know about that. Dude was absolute Titan in the paint in a way tweeners could never be. He would embarrass tiny Dray worse than AD has.

[L.Kizzle]

You just keep ignoring the actual defensive data. Stop deflecting.

A simple search will tell you the Lakers offense got better in 1970 when Wilt came back, they were the best offensive team during the postseason with Wilt, but got worse on defense.
Stop reading this data bruh and just trust me on this.

[1987_Lakers]

Posters who has defended Wilt haven’t posted any data proving his case.

You have Lkizzle saying he had a lot of blocks in a fast paced era

And tpols just saying he was an Olympian athlete.

[tpols]

Bro I thought it was bad enough you take Dray over peak KG, but now youre acting like Wilt ****ing Chamberlain isn't in the convo?

:biggums:

Youre on some truly wild shit.

[L.Kizzle]

Posters who has defended Wilt haven’t posted any data proving his case.

You have Lkizzle saying he had a lot of blocks in a fast paced era

And tpols just saying he was an Olympian athlete.

Wilt blocked Hall of Famer Walt Bellamy 9 times in a row.
What more data do you need?
Data also showed that Stephen Curry was not even in the top 25 for 3 point percentage this season.
According to data, Nicolas Batum has a better shot at making a 3 pointer than Steph Curry.

[1987_Lakers]

Still no data. :sleeping

“He blocked someone 9 times in a row”

[L.Kizzle]

Still no data. :sleeping

“He blocked someone 9 times in a row”

Lol, not just someone it's Walt Bellamy.

[L.Kizzle]

Fun fact:
Kevin Garnett played Wilt Chamberlain in the Earl Manigault bio film Rebound. Probably the only time they were ever mentioned in the same sentence.

[iamgine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnyqI8VajL0

here's a random eye test sample

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnyqI8VajL0

here's a random eye test sample

14:06 mark.

Russell makes a spectacular block at the rim and makes sure the ball went to one of his teammates, Wilt on the other end has a chance to block or at least contest a shot at the rim but just stands there. :lol

[L.Kizzle]

14:06 mark.

Russell makes a spectacular block at the rim and makes sure the ball went to one of his teammates, Wilt on the other end has a chance to block or at least contest a shot at the rim but just stands there. :lol

I mean, did you see the other blocks he took out of the sky?

[1987_Lakers]

I mean, did you see the other blocks he took out of the sky?

He had some nice blocks for sure. But compare the movements of Russell & Wilt on the defensive end. Russell looks more fluid and active, Wilt looks like a stiff out there.

[L.Kizzle]

Took me a while to find this, but this is poster GOAT hypothetical All-NBA Defense Teams and DPOYs in the 50s and 60s. He had Wilt coming in 2nd to Russell in just about every season and even had him winning twice over Russell.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?190405-All-Defensiev-teams-1955-1968

[Axe]

14:06 mark.

Russell makes a spectacular block at the rim and makes sure the ball went to one of his teammates, Wilt on the other end has a chance to block or at least contest a shot at the rim but just stands there. :lol
Yet he's top 3 all-time according to the biggest braindead casual itb. Lmao.