Why don't the mid-late 80's Utah Jazz get talked about as an all-time great defense?

[1987_Lakers]

1985: #1 Defense | 103.4 DRTG
1985 League Average: 107.9
Net: +4.5

1987: #1 Defense | 103.7 DRTG
1987 League Average: 108.3
Net: +4.6

1988: #1 Defense | 103.1 DRTG
1988 League Average: 108 DRTG
Net: +4.9

1989: #1 Defense | 101.5 DRTG
1989 League Average: 107.8 DRTG
Net: +6.3

They were the best defensive team in the league in 4 out of 5 seasons. How many teams have done that besides Russell's Celtics? I thought maybe Duncan's Spurs maybe accomplished this, but they fell a little short. Mid 90's Knicks also fell short.

They had a defensive monster in Eaton, who gets kind of forgotten nowadays. Alongside Eaton, Stockton & Malone were one of the better defenders in the league by the late 80's. And who here knows about Bob Hansen? Dude looks like a plumber, but I guess he was known for his defense as well on those Jazz teams. Jerry Krause liked his defense so much, he signed him the season the Bulls won in '92.

[Xiao Yao You]

Eaton and hansen were a joke.

[warriorfan]

Eaton and hansen were a joke.

Eaton would fold Rudy Gobert like a small piece of paper and dunk his ass straight through the rim

[L.Kizzle]

1985: #1 Defense | 103.4 DRTG
1985 League Average: 107.9
Net: +4.5

1987: #1 Defense | 103.7 DRTG
1987 League Average: 108.3
Net: +4.6

1988: #1 Defense | 103.1 DRTG
1988 League Average: 108 DRTG
Net: +4.9

1989: #1 Defense | 101.5 DRTG
1989 League Average: 107.8 DRTG
Net: +6.3

They were the best defensive team in the league in 4 out of 5 seasons. How many teams have done that besides Russell's Celtics? I thought maybe Duncan's Spurs maybe accomplished this, but they fell a little short. Mid 90's Knicks also fell short.

They had a defensive monster in Eaton, who gets kind of forgotten nowadays. Alongside Eaton, Stockton & Malone were one of the better defenders in the league by the late 80's. And who here knows about Bob Hansen? Dude looks like a plumber, but I guess he was known for his defense as well on those Jazz teams. Jerry Krause liked his defense so much, he signed him the season the Bulls won in '92.
Were they really the best defense team at that time or are you just going by numbers? This era of the Jazz win over 47 games once.
Not saying they weren't bad, the the best is a huge statement. Most would say the Bad Boy Pistons from the same time period you picked are number one.

[Xiao Yao You]

Eaton would fold Rudy Gobert like a small piece of paper and dunk his ass straight through the rim

Cant skip me!

[Xiao Yao You]

Were they really the best defense team at that time or are you just going by numbers? This era of the Jazz win over 47 games once.
Not saying they weren't bad, the the best is a huge statement. Most would say the Bad Boy Pistons from the same time period you picked are number one.

Cant expect much when you arr playing 4 on 5 offensively because eaton being tall and holding his arms above hos head doesnt work the same at the other end of the floor. Theres a reason their best years came after he had to retire

[1987_Lakers]

Were they really the best defense team at that time or are you just going by numbers? This era of the Jazz win over 47 games once.
Not saying they weren't bad, the the best is a huge statement.

It just shows how bad their offense was. 21st ranked offense in '85 & '87, (out of 23 teams).

Below average offense in '88 & '89. Not once did they yield an average offense at least.

[1987_Lakers]

Cant expect much when you arr playing 4 on 5 offensively because eaton being tall and holding his arms above hos head doesnt work the same at the other end of the floor. Theres a reason their best years came after he had to retire

Or maybe you can't expect much offensive production with this guy as your head coach


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqvYhOpb8ZE

Jazz offense instantly became better under Sloan. Hell, in '92 they were the #4 offense with a 35 year old Eaton starting 81 games that year.

[1987_Lakers]

You hear more talks about the '90's Bulls in particular the '96 version being an all-time great defense.

1996 Bulls: 101.8 DRTG
League average: 107.6 DRTG
Net: +5.8

1989 Jazz: 101.5 DRTG
League Average: 107.8 DRTG
Net: +6.3

'89 Jazz > '96 Bulls?

Utah's defense seemed better. Chicago during MJ's run were the #1 defense in only one season, in 1996. Utah under Eaton were the #1 defense in 4 different seasons.

[Xiao Yao You]

Or maybe you can't expect much offensive production with this guy as your head coach


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqvYhOpb8ZE

Jazz offense instantly became better under Sloan. Hell, in '92 they were the #4 offense with a 35 year old Eaton starting 81 games that year.

The best offense i ever saw from them was under the comedian as the out ran showtime in the 88 playoffs. Stockton with thurl and malone running alongside while eaton stayed at one end of the floor using his great skill to hold his arms above his head.

[Xiao Yao You]

Looking at the rosters the biggestvdifference i see between 91-92 and the previous yearbis stockton finally had a backup that didnt suck. Of course they traded him. Makes sense that your ofrtg would go up if you dont suck when your hofer goes to the bench which was the case for much of his career

[L.Kizzle]

It just shows how bad their offense was. 21st ranked offense in '85 & '87, (out of 23 teams).

Below average offense in '88 & '89. Not once did they yield an average offense at least.
Actually makes Karl Malone look that much better, he's dropping 30+ on this terribly ranked offense.

[Xiao Yao You]

Actually makes Karl Malone look that much better, he's dropping 30+ on this terribly ranked offense.

Stockton had nothing to do with it :coleman:

[L.Kizzle]

Stockton had nothing to do with it :coleman:

Are you saying Stockton made Karl Malone?
Malone was 22/12 before Stockton was even a full-time starter.

[Xiao Yao You]

Are you saying Stockton made Karl Malone?
Malone was 22/12 before Stockton was even a full-time starter.

22 and 12 isnt 30 a game. Stockton was an all star on those crappy offensive teams too

[jayfan]

Because they were a nothing team. The Jazz never made it out of the 2nd round in the 80's. No one really pays any attention to defense until the conference finals. Particularly back then. Defense is only appreciated if it gets you somewhere.

[ShawkFactory]

You hear more talks about the '90's Bulls in particular the '96 version being an all-time great defense.

1996 Bulls: 101.8 DRTG
League average: 107.6 DRTG
Net: +5.8

1989 Jazz: 101.5 DRTG
League Average: 107.8 DRTG
Net: +6.3

'89 Jazz > '96 Bulls?

Utah's defense seemed better. Chicago during MJ's run were the #1 defense in only one season, in 1996. Utah under Eaton were the #1 defense in 4 different seasons.

There is quite a lot of nuance missed here. Because the Jazz were so middling offensively, they create the entire style of play around mucking things up every night.

The 1996 Bulls didn't need to do that every game, but when the playoffs came around and things naturally tighten up its pretty clear what level they were capable of rising to defensively. And I would be very surprised if the Jazz in the 80s could match that.

If you've played ball before (assuming you have) you'll also understand that when you're scoring well the game tends to move a little more freely and you'll give up more points too.