How important was Shaq's mid-post game to his offensive impact?

[Im Still Ballin]

I was going over some old threads when I stumbled across this comment from Ben Taylor/Thinking Basketball/ElGee:


I'm not sure what other play in NBA history gives me that combination. There really is no such thing with redundancy with O'Neal, on either end of the court. The secret to his success, IMO, and something Phil Jackson understood, was that he could play the mid-post game. That allowed for proper spacing, but it also took advantage of Shaq's good passing. And since he really was an efficient scoring beast going one-on-one -- how do you like your whole front line being fouled out otherwise you give up like 1.4 to 1.5 ppp against his isolation? -- he dictated to basically ANY defense in the league.

Do you agree with that assessment? The downside of the mid-post is that it's further away from the basket where the higher-percentage shots are and where shooting fouls and and-1s are more frequent. The upside is that it opens up the paint for cutters and is an easier entry pass, resulting in fewer bad pass turnovers. Lower raw TS%/FG%/FTr but offset by lower TOV% and more high-value passing opportunities.

Shaq was a strong passer with quality court vision and had good-but-not-great scoring range, although he could dribble well enough to back down his man defender into the low & deep post. He could make a nice face-up attack now and then off one dribble, but it was not common. I'd like to think O'Neal would utilize his functional handle for more face-up moves out of the mid & high posts and PnR in today's NBA, but that may be wishful thinking.

This comment by Ben Taylor/Thinking Basketball/ElGee surprised me because I have always thought Shaq's off-ball low-post/deep-post game is what made him special. What made him stand out among post-players regarding on-court ORtg and team ORtg in both the regular season and the postseason.

Some definitions if you don't know what the mid-post is & how it differs from the low-post and high-post:




In basketball, the mid-post is the area on the court located between the low post (closer to the basket) and the high post (near the free throw line extended). It's generally considered to be between the block (the area next to the lane, often painted) and the free throw line extended, typically around 10-15 feet from the basket.




Low Post:
This area is directly adjacent to the lane and near the basket, often including the block.

Mid-Post:
This area is further out from the basket than the low post, but not as far as the high post. It's often visualized as the area between the free throw line extended and the block.

High Post:
This area is near the free throw line extended, usually at the elbows of the free throw lane.

https://liversedge.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/basketball-court-diagram.gif

[Reggie43]

Its basically what made him unguardable, being able to shoot over double/triple teams while having the ability to find the open man.

Allstar level bigs get stopped when you send the extra man but a guy like Shaq would still get his numbers regardless what is in front of him.

[Overdrive]

Its basically what made him unguardable, being able to shoot over double/triple teams while having the ability to find the open man.

Allstar level bigs get stopped when you send the extra man but a guy like Shaq would still get his numbers regardless what is in front of him.

It's his 10ft jump hook that made him special paired with his willingness to pass the ball. The dunks are what stuck with most ppl. Therw was a jump hook compilation on yt. Still one of my fav basketball vids. Will try to look it up.

[Overdrive]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRXZwg3YcGA

[Phoenix]

^ This reminds me of the other thread this week ( by the same OP I think?) showing Shaq,Kobe and Wade's percentages playing with and without each other. Unsurprisingly, Wade and Kobe suffered dropoffs in efficiency while Shaq's literally remained the same or went up without either. Just goes to show the degree to which peak Shaq was able to generate his own offense even if his elite guard wasn't on the floor feeding him. He wasn't Hakeem on Mchale on the block visually, but he was extremely punishing down low and as said above, during that 3peat run you pretty much needed 3-4 bigs just to have enough fouls. He singularly dictated how teams composed their rosters. Really, the only other big that you could have put on that Lakers team at that point pairing with Kobe and win multiple titles is probably Duncan, and even that may have been partially dictated but what team Shaq was on at that point and who his running mate was.

[Im Still Ballin]

10 feet was the extent of Shaq's scoring range, but outside the restricted area, he did most of his damage between 4 and 8 feet. Shaq's average jump hook was probably 5-6 feet.

[dankok8]

Shaq was amazing with that baby hook from mid-post. Especially from the left block where he could spin towards the middle. When on the right block, he would usually just go for low post position and try to throw down the hammer. But I remember extensive data on peak Shaq and he was the only all-time great C who was equally great from the left and right side. Another interesting tidbit...

[Phoenix]

But I remember extensive data on peak Shaq and he was the only all-time great C who was equally great from the left and right side. Another interesting tidbit...

Yes, he could spin off you on either side, dribble himself into the lane off either block for his jump hook, or bank it( mostly on the left block but he could do it off the right too IIRC). Basically he either missed or you fouled out your frontline to put him on the line.

[Im Still Ballin]

Shaq was amazing with that baby hook from mid-post. Especially from the left block where he could spin towards the middle. When on the right block, he would usually just go for low post position and try to throw down the hammer. But I remember extensive data on peak Shaq and he was the only all-time great C who was equally great from the left and right side. Another interesting tidbit...

...


It was in that game, but it's not that drastic when I tracked more games. Here is post FGA contribution for all centers I finished tracking by the side of the court:


2000-01 Shaq (678 FGA):

Left block: 50.3%
Right block: 49.7%

1993-94 Hakeem (437 FGA):

Left block: 72.8%
Right block: 27.2%

1971-79 Kareem (390 FGA):

Left block: 59.5%
Right block: 40.5%

1979-83 Moses (353 FGA):

Left block: 70.5%
Right block: 29.5%

2002-03 Duncan (didn't finish yet, 254 FGA):

Left block: 58.3%
Right block: 41.7%

1973-82 Gilmore (279 FGA):

Left block: 30.1%
Right block: 69.9%

1962-73 Wilt (229 FGA):

Left block: 68.1%
Right block: 31.9%


Notes:

1. Only Shaq showed no clear preference for either side of the block.
2. Kareem and Duncan also were versatile in terms of choosen side, but they prefer the left block like most right handed post players.
3. It's quite normal that players show clear preference for one side over the other and Wilt isn't an outlier in that respect. The most significant difference can be observed in Hakeem's case, whose post game is quite one dimensional despite the reputation (he was extremely effective though and he had plenty of counters).


Here's the results of the expanded data. Rather than doing left block and right block, I did full left side and right side (as defined by the NBA zones). So this might include a few e.g. 3 pointers, but it would not differentiate a left layup vs a right layup or a dunk coming from the left dunker's spot vs the right. There's slight difference in methodology from above, but nothing crazy. Filtering out shots in the center so we're only looking at what percentage of shots from the side come from the left vs right, we find:

2022–24 Jokic (RS+PS):

Left side: 42.0%
Right side: 58.0%

2002–04 Garnett (RS+PS):

Left side: 63.4%
Right side: 36.6%

2001–03 Duncan (RS+PS):

Left side: 59.3%
Right side: 40.7%

2000–03 Shaq (RS+PS):

Left side: 54.6%
Right side: 45.3%

1997–99 Robinson (RS+PS):

Left side: 34.9%
Right side: 65.1%

1997 Hakeem (RS+PS):

Left side: 27.1%
Right side: 72.9%

So from most balanced in their preferred side to most one-sided, combining with 70sFan's earlier (partial historical) data, we get the following Full list:
-Shaq (54.6% left side)
-Jokic (58.0% right side)
-Duncan (59.3% left side)
-Kareem (59.5% left side)
-Garnett (63.4% left side)
-Robinson (65.1% right side)
-Wilt (68.1% left side)
-Gilmore (69.9% right side)
-Moses (70.5% left side)
-Hakeem (72.9% left side)

-Compared to before: most of the new data for Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem is consistent with the earlier hand-tracking data.
-Shaq is still the most balanced in his side preference, while Hakeem is still the least balanced.
-The new data for Jokic puts him in the next most balanced tier with Duncan and Kareem, while Garnett and Robinson slip in between them and the next tier of Wilt, Gilmore, and Moses.
-Most players prefer the left side, as expected from their hand. Only Jokic, Robinson, and Gilmore prefer the right side. One wonders if this makes it easier for these players to fit next to other right-handed stars.



Definitely interested [in average shot distance]! Hope you had a happy holidays!

Here they are (in feet):


2000-01 Shaq: 4.2 (5.2 in RS, 4.9 per BBall-Reference)
1973-82 Gilmore: 4.2
1979-83 Moses: 4.6
1962-73 Wilt: 5.0
1971-79 Kareem: 6.0
2002-03 Duncan: 6.9 (7.7 in RS, 8.1 in PS per BBall-Reference)
1993-94 Hakeem: 8.0

As you can see, my estimations are not perfect, so keep in mind that the difference around one feet is not much. Especially in Wilt's case, when some of his game came from the era with narrower paint, which made me hard to estimate distance of some of his shots outside the paint. The better way to look at it is to look at the shooting charts I created - I will post them in the future.


As for average shooting distance, here's the list with the new players added:

1973-82 Gilmore: 4.2
2000-03 Shaq: 4.5
1979-83 Moses: 4.6
1962-73 Wilt: 5.0
1971-79 Kareem: 6.0
2001-03 Duncan: 7.9
1997-99 Robinson: 8.0
1994/97 Hakeem: 9.0
2022–24 Jokic: 9.7
2002–04 Garnett: 11.3
(source: BBR since 1997, 70sFan tracking pre-97)

This is mostly as expected:
- Gilmore, Shaq, Moses, and Wilt are closest to the basket.
-Kareem, Duncan, and Robinson fall in the middle. Kareem's closest, although relative to era, he likely has more midrange spacing than the raw value suggests. Hakeem comes next
-Jokic and Garnett provide the most spacing, which makes sense given their 3 point volume in the modern era.

Cool stuff! :D

[Im Still Ballin]

...


Highest Shaq scoring game I tracked so far: 61 points vs Clippers (1999-00)

https://i.ibb.co/jJF8CKm/61-pts.jpg

24/35 FG +13 FTs

3/4 fadeaways
3/7 jumphooks
5/8 layups
8/8 dunks
3/4 alley-oops
1/2 one handers
1/1 finger roll

[tpols]

Its unfair how smooth shaqs coordination was for his size. This dude is 350-400 lbs and moves like a guard.


https://youtube.com/shorts/Vj0GPNUcx7E?si=uy_a5e7EShfeINRf

Jumper wet too. It came way too naturally for him. I dont even think he practiced shooting.

[eliteballer]

I told you to stop copying other peoples threads, and get a job and a girlfriend!