What is the main reason why some consider Lebron the GOAT?

[Walk on Water]

After all these years, I'm still trying to understand how someone can think Lebron is the GOAT. I can see a case for top 15 but definitely not number 1. People say no Scottie no chips. I told my friend that. And he asked why is it not okay for Jordan to have a supporting cast, but Lebron gets to play with his stars? And I realized that doesn't make any sense. It's not okay for Jordan to have Pippen but Lebron can have Wade/Bosh, Irving/Love or Anthony Davis or Luca Doncic?

When you team hop like that, stack the deck, focus on your stats, don't play defense- it really hurts team chemistry. You can't build teams like that in the long run.

So I think the issue is that some people are truly deceived with what they are seeing. Lebron actually hurts team chemistry so when he leaves the team, it takes the team a while to recover from all their bad habits. And when he dominates the play, it takes away from chemistry and team play and can make other stars look smaller as they try to fit in with Lebron. If Lebron is good enough to get away with it and WIN then fine, but when it doesn't work out, no you cannot just blame the organization for not supplying him with enough talent. That is a dead end for the most part. That's why having a system like that will always require more and more talent to cover up the flaws of that system.

Then when you look at scoring titles, defensive teams, Championships and playoff percentages in general, Lebron falls short. So I just don't understand which angle makes sense for Lebron to be goat. Sure, you can look at the competition Jordan faced and focus on things like assists or rebounds or just say No Pip no Chip, but let's be honest, that's not getting us anywhere. And the whole longevity thing, should he get credit for preserving his body by half assing and not playing defense? I don't think that's a standard we can start embellishing. You really count that pandemic chip? It counts in the record books but most people don't respect it.

[StrongLurk]

OP it's not that serious. Go outside and touch some grass.

[SouBeachTalents]

OP’s mom told me she thought LeBron was the GOAT.

[sdot_thadon]

This guy. Whenever someone says some bs like top 15 i automatically assume they are mentally ill. You know why people think it. You begrudgingly have watched his every move for who knows how long. So you know buddy, I'll play along tho just for shits and giggles.

Whats Lebron's goat case? All you have to do is ask yourself what's Mjs goat case before Lebron was even in high-school? All those things you'll list, Lebron checks all the same boxes over most other players to ever play, and adds a few of his own that distinguish him from Mj. Does this make him the goat? Maybe, depending on what you value but not necessarily. Like Mj and only a few others it gives him a pretty good case.

[Tavr]

Its a combination of things, but what I see highlighted is longevity...mixed in with individual accolades and stats. Big emphasis on longevity though.

The debate isn't really something you should sweat, OP. There are more people who don't think LeBron is "GOAT" and with timing passing, that number will only get bigger. You're also beginning to see a shift in how he's covered by the media. The talking heads who had his back are now taking the kid gloves off.

[sdot_thadon]

Its a combination of things, but what I see highlighted is longevity...mixed in with individual accolades and stats. Big emphasis on longevity though.

The debate isn't really something you should sweat, OP. There are more people who don't think LeBron is "GOAT" and with timing passing, that number will only get bigger. You're also beginning to see a shift in how he's covered by the media. The talking heads who had his back are now taking the kid gloves off.

I dont understand why people think longevity is the biggest case hes got whenever this debate has been raging since the early 2010s, getting respectable by the mid 2010s....long before there was any longevity to speak of. The longevity honestly is just championed because its one of those things hes done Mj can't touch.

[StrongLurk]

I dont understand why people think longevity is the biggest case hes got whenever this debate has been raging since the early 2010s, getting respectable by the mid 2010s....long before there was any longevity to speak of. The longevity honestly is just championed because its one of those things hes done Mj can't touch.

100% agree. I've said that plenty of times, the longevity stuff is really just now overshadowing things because it's whats happening in the moment. Lebron has at least a top 5 peak/prime of all time and might just have the most sheer "talent" of any NBA ever. GOAT talks with Lebron were literally starting by the end of 2013.

[Tavr]

I dont understand why people think longevity is the biggest case hes got whenever this debate has been raging since the early 2010s, getting respectable by the mid 2010s....long before there was any longevity to speak of. The longevity honestly is just championed because its one of those things hes done Mj can't touch.

Well, LeBron quite literally has the best longevity of any player ever. It being a great reason is really just a no-brainer lol. I never saw any debate "raging" in the early 2010s. After 2016? Sure, but that was mostly LeBron who actually came out and declared himself the greatest. Not a lot of humility there if you couldn't tell :lol

[Carbine]

Best longevity ever, tied for most winning of his era. Most MVPs of his era. Most Finals MVPs.

Laundry list of career accolades.

His career is not without blemishes, but the resume speaks for itself. Also passed the eye test as a GOAT.

Not hard to understand.

[sdot_thadon]

Well, LeBron quite literally has the best longevity of any player ever. It being a great reason is really just a no-brainer lol. I never saw any debate "raging" in the early 2010s. After 2016? Sure, but that was mostly LeBron who actually came out and declared himself the greatest. Not a lot of humility there if you couldn't tell :lol

It started in the mainstream literally days before the 2011 finals when Pippen said Lebron just might be the greatest basketball player ever. I think thats the 1st time i ever heard it myself. Skip and steph A , etc ran with it from there to the point i cant even watch sports talk tv anymore lol. Whats crazy is he said this when him and Mj hadn't fell out to the ugly point they're at currently. You probably werent around forums during that time either or youd know this has been a long term discussion already. And 2016 is just when it picked up steam and many people started to agree in the public eye. I mean could you blame them? 2016 was some of the greatest basketball cinema of our lifetimes lol.


100% agree. I've said that plenty of times, the longevity stuff is really just now overshadowing things because it's whats happening in the moment. Lebron has at least a top 5 peak/prime of all time and might just have the most sheer "talent" of any NBA ever. GOAT talks with Lebron were literally starting by the end of 2013.

Yeah he had a really solid case long before Kareems record fell. Its just the latest thing so all the low effort debates are fixated on the recent thing. Same way hes been playing so long these guys think they are watching prime lebron in 2025 lol.

[Gudo]

Let's be honest. This argument only picked up when Lebron and his peons started to claim it and preach it. Then they doubled down by shitting on every player. If Lebron were to ever have become GOAT, that should have been evident and clear early on in his prime.

[sdot_thadon]

Let's be honest. This argument only picked up when Lebron and his peons started to claim it and preach it. Then they doubled down by shitting on every player. If Lebron were to ever have become GOAT, that should have been evident and clear early on in his prime.

Thats just when his accomplishments started getting tol close for comfort for Mj stans. It was long running before that, you just didn't take it seriously until that point.:oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

When people see longevity mentioned, they think about just how long he's been playing and doesn't put "how well" he's been playing into perspective also.

[ArbitraryWater]

cmon dude give it a rest :lol

you make the lebron goat thread every day

[highwhey]

OP’s mom told me she thought LeBron was the GOAT.

was this after u clapped her cheeks?

[jayfan]

100% agree. I've said that plenty of times, the longevity stuff is really just now overshadowing things because it's whats happening in the moment. Lebron has at least a top 5 peak/prime of all time and might just have the most sheer "talent" of any NBA ever. GOAT talks with Lebron were literally starting by the end of 2013.

What? Umm... No.

He's neither, but he has a better argument for overall goat than for most talented player ever.

.

[John8204]

I mean their are plenty of other reasons to rank as the goat. He's a five position player who has won rings on three different teams. He walked into the league as a teenager NBA ready and has managed to play at an All-NBA level into his 40's. The biggest thing he's got over everyone else is he's had to compete against both a global community and a player empowered era where Super teams are created every season.

He might not be my goat but I respect the case for him, GOATS are genertational because every generation in the NBA is different.

[Full Court]

I mean their are plenty of other reasons to rank as the goat. He's a five position player who has won rings on three different teams. He walked into the league as a teenager NBA ready and has managed to play at an All-NBA level into his 40's. The biggest thing he's got over everyone else is he's had to compete against both a global community and a player empowered era where Super teams are created every season.

He might not be my goat but I respect the case for him, GOATS are genertational because every generation in the NBA is different.

He was gifted all NBA the last few years. He's been a net negative and it certainly wasn't deserved.

[HylianNightmare]

11>8>6>5>4>3

[sdot_thadon]

What? Umm... No.

He's neither, but he has a better argument for overall goat than for most talented player ever.

.

Why not? His peak has been studied amongst the greatest ever and he usually comes out pretty favorably. And he may be the most talented basketball player ever if youre following the common meaning of talent. His physical properties and athletic ability, being ambidextrous, being able to read and compute the entire floor for split second decisions? That's all talent.