when are we getting our billions back from the welfare whores in ukraine and israel?

[diamenz]

give me my america first. where is my america first?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZomwVcGt0LE

...because no matter who you vote for, you just end up getting john mccain.

[Baller234]

If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.

[TheMan]

If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.

Interesting...because by all international accounts, the IAEA and others including US intelligence, Iran hasn't been pursuing a nuclear bomb since the early 2000s, even their Ayatollah issued a fatwa against the pursuit of nuclear weapons calling them evil and immoral. This last attack might convince Iran to pursue one though because apparently just like North Korea, we don't mess with nuclear powers, it's common sense. Iran having a nuke would overall be good, it would stop Israel fukking with all their neighbors knowing there's a nation there that could wipe them off the face of the earth if they keep on warmongering.

Also, Israel ain't our friends, allies don't spy and blackmail allies. AIPAC owning a bunch of US politicians =/= friends. They've bombed Christian churches numerous times, Israel ain't our friend.

[Baller234]

If Iran wasn't pursuing a nuclear weapon, why did they build a secret base 300 feet underground? :oldlol:

[TheMan]

If Iran wasn't pursuing a nuclear weapon, why did they build a secret base 300 feet underground? :oldlol:

I don't know but you must have more reliable intelligence than the IAEI and other nuclear nonproliferation agencies including the Director of National Intelligence whom stated they weren't pursuing a nuke and who were 100% complying with international inspections until our Orange Idiot tore up the agreement. What are your sources other than "trust me, bro"?

[diamenz]

If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.

that's but a mere snapshot of the big picture.

but if iran was such a threat, we'd do best to disarm india, pakistan and nk as well, who are all arguably just as unstable of nuclear powers as iran and refuse to join the rest of the civilized world as part of the npt. we are imperial America, afterall and tell the entire world how to operate

ah, that's right. they're not a direct threat to Israel so it's not a priority. or maybe our congress just isn't getting paid enough to act.

[TheMan]

that's but a mere snapshot of the big picture.

but if iran was such a threat, we'd do best to disarm india, pakistan and nk as well, who are all arguably just as unstable of nuclear powers as iran and refuse to join the rest of the civilized world as part of the npt. we are imperial America, afterall and tell the entire world how to operate

ah, that's right. they're not a direct threat to Israel so it's not a priority. or maybe our congress just isn't getting paid enough to act.

Israel refuses to let international nuclear nonproliferation agencies inspect their nuclear weapons, in fact they haven't even admitted to having nukes even though everyone knows they have them. That reeks of an unstable nuclear power to me

[TeflonDonTrump]

If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.

Here's the problem.

The west keeps claiming that Iran is building its nuclear war program for the past 25 years. Over the course of these 25 years, they either 1. should have succeeded by now; 2. If they did succeed, they haven't even bombed anyone with it. So who is to say that the USA has the right to dictate who gets what weapons and what not?

Why does the West only gets to play with bombs and other countries do not? I'm certain that the USA has killed more and bombed more than Iran.

[Baller234]

that's but a mere snapshot of the big picture.

but if iran was such a threat, we'd do best to disarm india, pakistan and nk as well, who are all arguably just as unstable of nuclear powers as iran and refuse to join the rest of the civilized world as part of the npt. we are imperial America, afterall and tell the entire world how to operate

ah, that's right. they're not a direct threat to Israel so it's not a priority. or maybe our congress just isn't getting paid enough to act.

Disarm them? Lol, those countries already have nukes pal. It's a little too late for that. I'm sure if Trump could go back in time and wave a magic wand then he would.

The goal was keeping Iran from entering the chat.

[Baller234]

Here's the problem.

The west keeps claiming that Iran is building its nuclear war program for the past 25 years. Over the course of these 25 years, they either 1. should have succeeded by now; 2. If they did succeed, they haven't even bombed anyone with it. So who is to say that the USA has the right to dictate who gets what weapons and what not?

Why does the West only gets to play with bombs and other countries do not? I'm certain that the USA has killed more and bombed more than Iran.

Because the world is a poker table and we want to remain the big stack?

Why would you as an american be in favor of something that would hurt our standing as superpower?

[j3lademaster]

Here's the problem.

The west keeps claiming that Iran is building its nuclear war program for the past 25 years. Over the course of these 25 years, they either 1. should have succeeded by now; 2. If they did succeed, they haven't even bombed anyone with it. So who is to say that the USA has the right to dictate who gets what weapons and what not?

Why does the West only gets to play with bombs and other countries do not? I'm certain that the USA has killed more and bombed more than Iran.

Big Carl comin in hot with the facts.

[HoopsNY]

If Iran wasn't pursuing a nuclear weapon, why did they build a secret base 300 feet underground? :oldlol:

Who cares? Worry about America. You're literally only saying this because the media and zionists are obsessed with that sh!t country Israel that puts the entire world at risk.

[highwhey]

If Iran wasn't pursuing a nuclear weapon, why did they build a secret base 300 feet underground? :oldlol:

IF it's so secretive, how do we know about it? :eek:


one thing is for sure however, there's no epstein-trump activities down there.

[Bill Gates]

We dumped $Trillions on ourselves during covid and now with BBB Trump is dumping more $Trillions on us.

Giving ourselves money is seen as an inflationary. Throwing money elsewhere? It does not cause inflation within the US.

[Hey Yo]

Who cares? Worry about America. You're literally only saying this because the media and zionists are obsessed with that sh!t country Israel that puts the entire world at risk.

Citizens have been telling that to the left the last 4yrs but all they cared about was letting in as many illegals as possible. Put them up in hotels, feed em', get em' gift cards etc.. etc.. all just for votes to keep Dems in charge.

It's pretty safe to say which side cares about America and it's tax paying citizens

[Baller234]

IF it's so secretive, how do we know about it?


Because of Israeli intelligence.

[Baller234]

Who cares? Worry about America. You're literally only saying this because the media and zionists are obsessed with that sh!t country Israel that puts the entire world at risk.

Hey dipshit, if Iran becomes a nuclear power, that's not good for America.

This fukking idiot actually said "who cares".

[diamenz]

Disarm them? Lol, those countries already have nukes pal. It's a little too late for that.

yeah that was mindless of me to say that. :rolleyes:


If it weren't for Israel, Iran wouldn't be disarmed right now.

surely you're skeptical or at the least willing to entertain the possibility that task wasn't executed on behalf of our safety or for the 'greater good of the world' but instead carried out on behalf of israel's interests; due to lately what seems to be a limitless influence on our government.

iran is a threat to israel and israel alone - iran's advocation of the palestinian cause in particular. the houthis, hezbollah, hamas - all of the terrorist organizations that they fund all exist because of the gaza occupation. so they're not just a military threat but an ideological one. per usual israel leveraged us for action and because our government is comprised, we obliged.

but us? they pose zero threat to us. if we hadn't been meddling in ME affairs for decades, we would be on neutral terms with iran and doing business with them, similar to how russia would be doing business with us if we weren't meddling in their affairs.

speaking of which, trump has been a great disappointment in that regard. that war should be coming to a slow crawl by now if trump were doing what he campaigned on.

[diamenz]

Because the world is a poker table and we want to remain the big stack?

Why would you as an american be in favor of something that would hurt our standing as superpower?

because we thrive as a commercial superpower, not an imperial one. always have. peace abroad, prosperity at home. who are we to tell other countries how to live? "if you're not a liberal democracy like us, you're the enemy" is what we convey to the world. look no further than our failed "containment" of russia and the mess that's left us in.

in addition to that, this isn't a unipolar world anymore and we can't seem to want to accept that fact. we think we run the show and can bully everyone else without consequence. we're pushing russia into the arms of our peer competitor superpower in china and the dollar is losing it's standing as the world's reserve currency. there's not very much to be optimistic about in terms of our standing on the world stage.

[HoopsNY]

Hey dipshit, if Iran becomes a nuclear power, that's not good for America.

This fukking idiot actually said "who cares".

Yes, because we've been hearing for 30 years that they're days away from a nuke. The agreement in 2013 was to scrap uranium enrichment once sanctions and their money was lifted. Trump squashed that deal so what did you think was the natural outcome?

And all of this is because Israel ACTUALLY has nukes. So where does this leave everyone? And honestly, who gives a shit. Let them blow each other up, why the hell do we care? We can't take care of the entire world.

But for some reason we feel the need to bleed our own tax dollars into worldwide conflicts all for the sake of Israel. Iraq war ring a bell? NATO and Libya ring a bell? I'm tired of this garbage and you should be too.

[TeflonDonTrump]

Because the world is a poker table and we want to remain the big stack?

Why would you as an american be in favor of something that would hurt our standing as superpower?

There's absolutely no reason for us to be some police force for the world.

The problem with the US is they always accuses other countries of atrocities but overlook their own. Who's to say your "democracy" is a better form of government over others. Don't use the guise of "democracy" to invade other countries. There's no reason for that.

[highwhey]

the elite benefit from this country being the world's police, not only through military channels but domestically through law enforcement. you think trump gives a flying fck about illegals? no, it's just a scam to syphon money into his friend's pockets that will later end up in his pocket. saw a 1 billion dollar contract was awarded to some small company with little experience to build a new deportee prison. no facility requires 1 billion dollars, unless there's payoffs behind the curtains. that's ONE BILLION to build a prison. to staff it and maintain it is an entirely separate process and likely extremely expensive. extremely bloated contracts to build a facility, and more bloated contracts to staff it. gee, i wonder which of his donors are getting those contracts...would LOVE to see an independent audit report on all of those expenditures extending into the contractors involved. Afterall, any federal contract requires certified payroll reports....:eek:

[diamenz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB7SCpqODOE

[Baller234]

There's absolutely no reason for us to be some police force for the world.

The problem with the US is they always accuses other countries of atrocities but overlook their own. Who's to say your "democracy" is a better form of government over others. Don't use the guise of "democracy" to invade other countries. There's no reason for that.

Huh? Other countries literally rely on us for protection.

Being the leader of the free world comes with obligations and responsibilities. In this case we have an obligation to maintain order and ensure our position on top. You should be grateful we even have the authority and leverage to police the world, because if we didn't then someone else would be doing it. All these other countries want what we have. They all want to dictate the terms and if given the opportunity, all of them would take it. The world is a poker game, not a PTA meeting. You should be rooting for the west to win at all costs.

I just don't understand the hate for Israel. I feel like a lot of it echoes the hate for America. "Zionist" is really just another way of saying "colonizer".

[Baller234]

Yes, because we've been hearing for 30 years that they're days away from a nuke. The agreement in 2013 was to scrap uranium enrichment once sanctions and their money was lifted. Trump squashed that deal so what did you think was the natural outcome?

And all of this is because Israel ACTUALLY has nukes. So where does this leave everyone? And honestly, who gives a shit. Let them blow each other up, why the hell do we care? We can't take care of the entire world.

But for some reason we feel the need to bleed our own tax dollars into worldwide conflicts all for the sake of Israel. Iraq war ring a bell? NATO and Libya ring a bell? I'm tired of this garbage and you should be too.

Uhh...

Because one of them is an invaluable ally and shares our values, and the other one is ruled by radical islamists???

Are you fukking stupid???

[Baller234]

because we thrive as a commercial superpower, not an imperial one. always have. peace abroad, prosperity at home. who are we to tell other countries how to live? "if you're not a liberal democracy like us, you're the enemy" is what we convey to the world. look no further than our failed "containment" of russia and the mess that's left us in.

in addition to that, this isn't a unipolar world anymore and we can't seem to want to accept that fact. we think we run the show and can bully everyone else without consequence. we're pushing russia into the arms of our peer competitor superpower in china and the dollar is losing it's standing as the world's reserve currency. there's not very much to be optimistic about in terms of our standing on the world stage.

Lmao.

You think the U.S. would be in the position it's in if it weren't for the might of it's military?

:oldlol:

[diamenz]

Lmao.

You think the U.S. would be in the position it's in if it weren't for the might of it's military?

:oldlol:

lmao.

you think we can't thrive on the old adage of peace through strength? just to reiterate, i denounced our imperial tendencies.

...so what you're saying is that this "position" that you say we're in was achieved by our foreign interventions? now that's interesting.

[diamenz]

Uhh...

Because one of them is an invaluable ally and shares our values, and the other one is ruled by radical islamists???

Are you fukking stupid???

when two allied countries share similar interests there's generally no controversy over it. it's when the smaller country, in this case israel, leverages the larger power to act against their interests is when things get dicey.

as is the case currently in our relationship with israel. I find it funny how you seem to have no issues with how manipulated and bought our government is by this supposed ally of ours.

[TeflonDonTrump]

Huh? Other countries literally rely on us for protection.

Being the leader of the free world comes with obligations and responsibilities. In this case we have an obligation to maintain order and ensure our position on top. You should be grateful we even have the authority and leverage to police the world, because if we didn't then someone else would be doing it. All these other countries want what we have. They all want to dictate the terms and if given the opportunity, all of them would take it. The world is a poker game, not a PTA meeting. You should be rooting for the west to win at all costs.

I just don't understand the hate for Israel. I feel like a lot of it echoes the hate for America. "Zionist" is really just another way of saying "colonizer".

We really need to stay out of it. Let the other countries deal with their own problems. Its not our decision to dictate what other countries need. We can always bolster our military, but not for the sake of others.

[Baller234]

We really need to stay out of it. Let the other countries deal with their own problems. Its not our decision to dictate what other countries need. We can always bolster our military, but not for the sake of others.

Uh, yes it is. That is the privilege of being on top. That is what comes with being the big stack at the poker table.

You think we're the only country that doesn't want Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon? You think China wants that? Or Russia? Lol. Nobody benefits from more countries entering the chat when it comes to having nukes. That is what keeps the strong in power.

There's no argument you could possibly make where Iran becoming a nuclear power is in OUR best interest.

[Baller234]

when two allied countries share similar interests there's generally no controversy over it. it's when the smaller country, in this case israel, leverages the larger power to act against their interests is when things get dicey.

as is the case currently in our relationship with israel. I find it funny how you seem to have no issues with how manipulated and bought our government is by this supposed ally of ours.

Uh, we have countless money invested in Israel. We're basically their parent company. We have nothing to gain if they are wiped off the map and the other more radical countries take total control of the region. As we speak Trump is trying to help establish a new order in the middle east and unfortunately Iran under current management makes that harder to achieve. We don't want them having a say.

As for Israel secretly being in control of our government, honestly I don't even think you guys know what you're saying anymore. The story has changed so many times I've lost count and that's just in the last few months alone. Not long ago you guys swore up and down that American soldiers were going to be forced to die on Israel's behalf and that WW3 was on the horizon. What do you know, that didn't happen.

Also I'm just really skeptical of any person that unironically uses the word "zionist" as a derogatory term. Like I said it's no different than referring to Americans as "colonizers". It's rooted in the same resentment.

[Baller234]

lmao.

you think we can't thrive on the old adage of peace through strength? just to reiterate, i denounced our imperial tendencies.

...so what you're saying is that this "position" that you say we're in was achieved by our foreign interventions? now that's interesting.

America is only on top because of it's military and defense capabilities. Like Tony Stark says in Iron Man, "Peace means having a bigger stick than the other guy..."

I'm sorry that the world is not the peaceful utopia you want it to be. This is the reality of the world. It doesn't mean we have to micromanage what's going on in every country around the world, but yes we absolutely have an obligation to take action when it comes to preserving our place on top of the pecking order.

[ShawkFactory]

Uh, we have countless money invested in Israel. We're basically their parent company. We have nothing to gain if they are wiped off the map and the other more radical countries take total control of the region. As we speak Trump is trying to help establish a new order in the middle east and unfortunately Iran under current management makes that harder to achieve. We don't want them having a say.

As for Israel secretly being in control of our government, honestly I don't even think you guys know what you're saying anymore. The story has changed so many times I've lost count and that's just in the last few months alone. Not long ago you guys swore up and down that American soldiers were going to be forced to die on Israel's behalf and that WW3 was on the horizon. What do you know, that didn't happen.

Also I'm just really skeptical of any person that unironically uses the word "zionist" as a derogatory term. Like I said it's no different than referring to Americans as "colonizers". It's rooted in the same resentment.

This has been attempted for decades now, and for various reasons...

It's always perplexing to me why some people wonder why a lot of people in the area hate the US government. It's no secret.

[Baller234]

This has been attempted for decades now, and for various reasons...

It's always perplexing to me why some people wonder why a lot of people in the area hate the US government. It's no secret.

What is the alternative? We should just sit back and let every country develop their own nuclear weapons? It's cool if every country gets to have their own nuke? You don't think that's going to cause more of a problem for us?

Seriously, tell me what would have been the better move when it came to Iran.

[ShawkFactory]

What is the alternative? We should just sit back and let every country develop their own nuclear weapons? It's cool if every country gets to have their own nuke? You don't think that's going to cause more of a problem for us?

Seriously, tell me what would have been the better move when it came to Iran.

I don't think that nuclear weapons are being developed by anyone in any capacity other than as a self-defense comfort. Like a standard homeowner owning a shotgun, especially knowing that other owners in larger houses (with mindsets like yours) nearby have one. I don't believe there is any offensive purpose.

You sound awfully like one of those super pro-Vietnam War folks in the 60s.

[Baller234]

I don't think that nuclear weapons are being developed by anyone in any capacity other than as a self-defense comfort. Like a standard homeowner owning a shotgun, especially knowing that other owners in larger houses (with mindsets like yours) nearby have one. I don't believe there is any offensive purpose.

So you think it would have been better if US and Israel just laid off and let Iran become a nuclear power?

Yes or no.

[ShawkFactory]

So you think it would have been better if US and Israel just laid off and let Iran become a nuclear power?

Yes or no.

The US, yes. Israel can do what they want.

[Baller234]

The US, yes. Israel can do what they want.

Wait, what gives Israel the right to disarm Iran and not America?

[ShawkFactory]

Wait, what gives Israel the right to disarm Iran and not America?

Oh is that what you took from what I said?

I’m not giving them the right (or not right) to do anything. I’m saying they are free to make whatever decision they want, so long as it doesn’t involve us.

[Baller234]

Oh is that what you took from what I said?

I’m not giving them the right (or not right) to do anything. I’m saying they are free to make whatever decision they want, so long as it doesn’t involve us.

Uh, what? If you're saying they're free to make whatever decision they want, then yes you are granting them the right to do something.

In this case, you believe Israel has the right to disarm another country. Okay so if they have the right, why shouldn't America?

[ShawkFactory]

Uh, what? If you're saying they're free to make whatever decision they want, then yes you are granting them the right to do something.

In this case, you believe Israel has the right to disarm another country. Okay so if they have the right, why shouldn't America?

Okay..you keep getting hung up on whether I’m giving someone the right to do something or not. It’s not relevant to what I’ve said.

If they think it’s a good idea then go for. I don’t think it’s beneficial for us to get involved.

[Baller234]

Okay..you keep getting hung up on whether I’m giving someone the right to do something or not. It’s not relevant to what I’ve said.

If they think it’s a good idea then go for. I don’t think it’s beneficial for us to get involved.

If it's not relevant to what you said, why did you say it?

You said that Israel should reserve the right to either disarm or not disarm Iran as they please. Those were your words. You said you didn't care either way.

Okay, so why don't you grant that same right to America? Why is it okay for Israel to disarm another country but not America?

[ShawkFactory]

If it's not relevant to what you said, why did you say it?

You said that Israel should reserve the right to either disarm or not disarm Iran as they please. Those were your words. You said you didn't care either way.

Okay, so why don't you grant that same right to America? Why is it okay for Israel to disarm another country but not America?

Read the last sentence of my last post again..

[Baller234]

Read the last sentence of my last post again..

"If they think it’s a good idea then go for. I don’t think it’s beneficial for us to get involved."

So if Israel thinks it's a good idea to disarm Iran, you think they should have the right to go for it. But if America thinks it's a good idea to disarm Iran, you don't think they should have the right to go for it. When America does it, it's bad.

Trump had been saying for years that he was hell bent on Iran not being able to develop nukes. Why shouldn't he have gotten us involved? The threat of U.S. intervention is what made it possible in the first place. It's why Iran had no one to run to and was forced to back down instantly.

[ShawkFactory]

"If they think it’s a good idea then go for. I don’t think it’s beneficial for us to get involved."

So if Israel thinks it's a good idea to disarm Iran, you think they should have the right to go for it. But if America thinks it's a good idea to disarm Iran, you don't think they should have the right to go for it. When America does it, it's bad.

Trump had been saying for years that he was hell bent on Iran not being able to develop nukes. Why shouldn't he have gotten us involved? The threat of U.S. intervention is what made it possible in the first place. It's why Iran had no one to run to and was forced to back down instantly.

Really strange way to twist this argument..

What does what "America" thinks have to do with my personal opinion on this? I believe it's a poor decision.

[Baller234]

Really strange way to twist this argument..

What does what "America" thinks have to do with my personal opinion on this? I believe it's a poor decision.

Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but once again you're not addressing the original point you were trying to make.

I asked you if the U.S. and Israel should have sat back and let Iran get their hands on a nuke. You said that America should have sat back, while at the same time saying that Israel was free to do whatever they want. That means you're okay with Israel attempting to disarm Iran.

So you're okay with disarming Iran, you just don't want America to be the one to do it. Why? What's the difference? The end goal is the same, only we were able to do it far more efficiently. Not only that, our involvement backs Iran into more of a corner.

[ShawkFactory]

Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but once again you're not addressing the original point you were trying to make.

I asked you if the U.S. and Israel should have sat back and let Iran get their hands on a nuke. You said that America should have sat back, while at the same time saying that Israel was free to do whatever they want. That means you're okay with Israel attempting to disarm Iran.

So you're okay with disarming Iran, you just don't want America to be the one to do it. Why? What's the difference? The end goal is the same, only we were able to do it far more efficiently. Not only that, our involvement backs Iran into more of a corner.

You're taking so many leaps here unnecessarily.


you just don't want America to be the one to do it. Why?

Because I think it's a poor decision in general. To continue spending loads of money and create further hatred and unrest unnecessarily.

Since you're so hung up on the "rights" thing: I grant Israel the right to make these poor decisions...for themselves.

[Baller234]

You're taking so many leaps here unnecessarily.



Because I think it's a poor decision in general. To continue spending loads of money and create further hatred and unrest unnecessarily.

Since you're so hung up on the "rights" thing: I grant Israel the right to make these poor decisions...for themselves.

So disarming Iran was a poor decision? Yes or no.

I already know you're going to try and pose some type of circular argument, but this is essentially what you're saying. You're saying that both America and Israel should have just rolled the dice, not gotten involved and let Iran do as they please. "If they get a nuke, oh well."

[highwhey]

to answer op's question, right around the same time that jeff upgrades the servers.

[diamenz]

Uh, we have countless money invested in Israel. We're basically their parent company. We have nothing to gain if they are wiped off the map and the other more radical countries take total control of the region. As we speak Trump is trying to help establish a new order in the middle east and unfortunately Iran under current management makes that harder to achieve. We don't want them having a say.

As for Israel secretly being in control of our government, honestly I don't even think you guys know what you're saying anymore. The story has changed so many times I've lost count and that's just in the last few months alone. Not long ago you guys swore up and down that American soldiers were going to be forced to die on Israel's behalf and that WW3 was on the horizon. What do you know, that didn't happen.

Also I'm just really skeptical of any person that unironically uses the word "zionist" as a derogatory term. Like I said it's no different than referring to Americans as "colonizers". It's rooted in the same resentment.

this is where you're failing to see the forest for the trees but i don't think you even want to hear it. follow the money. trump isn't running policy in the middle east - he's being dog-walked by the israeli government. and to be fair, so has every president. follow the money and observe the subsequent action. it's no "secret", as you say and it's no different than how corporate capture works. pharmaceutical company X donates X amount of $ to said senator and you know the rest. if you can't piece this very basic puzzle together then you're either being willingly ignorant or i give you way too much credit in your problem solving abilities. if you need something to jump-start you on this jstern's recent thread should be enough to do so. btw of which i see you wanted no part of. trump isn't your god but you just can't bring yourself to hold him to account when it's easiest to do so. just can't seem to lend yourself that easy credibility.

look, trump ran on an anti-war/america-first platform. yet all we're continuing to get is the biden policy of more war in ukraine and more facilitating of mass murder and expulsion of brown people in gaza. yeah, right right... the tired argument of hamas and hostages, yada yada. i'm not buying it anymore and neither should you. maga isn't buying it anymore. and to be completely honest i don't think you do either. i mean, you don't buy into any of the other bullshit out there but when it comes to israel you just throw your hands up in helpless ignorance? just can't connect the dots all of a sudden? no, you know what's going on. you just don't want to have to defend it. if you love israel as much as i think you do, you'd be wise to consider that this isn't going to be good for them in the long run.

but if israel wants to run roughshod over those people and take their land over some ridiculous biblical prophecy, then i certainly don't agree with it but let them do it on their own accord. not with my tax dollars, not on my moral compass. america should have no hand in it. not in our interests. if you support these things then that's fine but come out and say it. but don't turn around and claim to be america first because you ain't no matter how much you try and twist it.

[imdaman99]

There are too many p*ssies out there. Boohoo we don't want Iran getting nuclear weapons because it will be bad for us boohoo. Boohoo they don't like us boohoo, this is why it's bad for us boohoo

Just admit that we're Israel's bitch. We fund their healthcare when we can't even get ours right. We fund their war mongering in the area because we're their bitches. Just be straight with everyone.

[Baller234]

this is where you're failing to see the forest for the trees but i don't think you even want to hear it. follow the money. trump isn't running policy in the middle east - he's being dog-walked by the israeli government. and to be fair, so has every president. follow the money and observe the subsequent action. it's no "secret", as you say and it's no different than how corporate capture works. pharmaceutical company X donates X amount of $ to said senator and you know the rest. if you can't piece this very basic puzzle together then you're either being willingly ignorant or i give you way too much credit in your problem solving abilities. if you need something to jump-start you on this jstern's recent thread should be enough to do so. btw of which i see you wanted no part of. trump isn't your god but you just can't bring yourself to hold him to account when it's easiest to do so. just can't seem to lend yourself that easy credibility.

look, trump ran on an anti-war/america-first platform. yet all we're continuing to get is the biden policy of more war in ukraine and more facilitating of mass murder and expulsion of brown people in gaza. yeah, right right... the tired argument of hamas and hostages, yada yada. i'm not buying it anymore and neither should you. maga isn't buying it anymore. and to be completely honest i don't think you do either. i mean, you don't buy into any of the other bullshit out there but when it comes to israel you just throw your hands up in helpless ignorance? just can't connect the dots all of a sudden? no, you know what's going on. you just don't want to have to defend it. if you love israel as much as i think you do, you'd be wise to consider that this isn't going to be good for them in the long run.

but if israel wants to run roughshod over those people and take their land over some ridiculous biblical prophecy, then i certainly don't agree with it but let them do it on their own accord. not with my tax dollars, not on my moral compass. america should have no hand in it. not in our interests. if you support these things then that's fine but come out and say it. but don't turn around and claim to be america first because you ain't no matter how much you try and twist it.

Biblical prophecy? Wtf are you talking about? You think Netanyahu gives a shit? This is about business, always has been. And to a lesser degree peace and prosperity.

And please, stop saying that Iran becoming a nuclear superpower is in our interests. No it's fukking not. You shouldn't need Israel to convince you of that. And more importantly, stop pretending you give a fukk. You're an american and you want american prosperity just like everyone else. Not sure how introducing another nuclear power into the fray helps us achieve that, let alone one that is ruled by radical islamists whose way of life is totally incompatible with ours. A country that is both tough to get along with and also do business with. None of the forward thinking countries in the region want it either. They are sympathetic to the west and want to do business with the west.

This nonsense about Israel being some grand puppet master is pure insanity honestly. They do not have blackmail on EVERYONE in the government. The level of influence you are hinting at would require asinine levels of conspiracy and secrecy, and it would probably have to include hundreds if not thousands of people. Not to mention decades upon decades of careful precision planning down to the most perfect detail. Contingency plans upon contingency plans spanning into infinity. For the last time, JEWS are not magical wizards!

America and Israel's interests are aligned because they just are. Because our countries and our people are motivated and driven by the same things. Obviously I'm not saying Israel can be trusted 100%, they are their own country of course and will look out for themselves at the end of the day, but that doesn't mean they can't be an invaluable business partner. Israel did major fukking damage in that attack. Intel up the ass. Took out all their top people with exploding beepers and shit. So whether it was their money or our money, fact is shit got done. Mission accomplished. Couldn't have been done without them.

Never thought I would see a woke right, but here we are.

[Baller234]

There are too many p*ssies out there. Boohoo we don't want Iran getting nuclear weapons because it will be bad for us boohoo. Boohoo they don't like us boohoo, this is why it's bad for us boohoo

Just admit that we're Israel's bitch. We fund their healthcare when we can't even get ours right. We fund their war mongering in the area because we're their bitches. Just be straight with everyone.

Great argument. If you don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon, it's because you're a pu$$y.

Very sound logic. Point for the "anti-Israel" team I guess.

:oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

So disarming Iran was a poor decision? Yes or no.

I already know you're going to try and pose some type of circular argument, but this is essentially what you're saying. You're saying that both America and Israel should have just rolled the dice, not gotten involved and let Iran do as they please. "If they get a nuke, oh well."

Circular argument? Hmm. Could it just appear that way to you? I’ve already made my full argument and you continue to rip strawman after strawman.

Maybe you’ve missed something that I’ve said? Don’t really feel like continuing to repeat myself.

[diamenz]

Biblical prophecy? Wtf are you talking about? You think Netanyahu gives a shit? This is about business, always has been. And to a lesser degree peace and prosperity.



why did netanyahu bring a greater israel map to the UN showcasing the entirety of gaza and the west bank outlined as israeli territory, coincidentally just before he (possibly) let oct 7th happen? "from the river to the sea", he said. but no - let's get hung up on the twenty year old libtards chanting it and ignore those in power actually carrying it out.

in addition to that, i don't need anymore convincing when i see the constant violence and land grabbing taking place in the west bank, being facilitated btw by the idf. a territory not governed under hamas and having nothing to do with oct 7th.



This nonsense about Israel being some grand puppet master is pure insanity honestly. They do not have blackmail on EVERYONE in the government. The level of influence you are hinting at would require asinine levels of conspiracy and secrecy, and it would probably have to include hundreds if not thousands of people. Not to mention decades upon decades of careful precision planning down to the most perfect detail. Contingency plans upon contingency plans spanning into infinity. For the last time, JEWS are not magical wizards!



you're overthinking it. it works in the same way any other lobbying group does in washington.

an aipac representative walks into a congressperson's office and says "hey you're a great guy and we love you". if you vote this way on these particular issues, always ensuring that israel gets everything that it wants, whenever it wants it, then we will fund you for as long as you want and keep you in office. on the other hand, if you refuse to do this, we're going to pour as much money as we can into whomever your opponent turns out to be and remove you from office.

...oh, and by the way - if you have no objections, we're going to plant someone in the office here who represents our interests, who will keep us informed and keep you in line.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/67243caa6cdc511f819106d8/191f181c-bc34-4e8c-9095-6d906de9ddbe/POTUS+Donald+Trump.png

yeah, nothing to see here. that $ was given to trump out of the kindness of the lobby's heart. they couldn't possibly expect anything back in return. :roll eyes: funny how every time bibi visits the white house there's immediately some new major plan moving forward involving our tax dollars.

nothing to see here either.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGP_0APz7R4




America and Israel's interests are aligned because they just are. Because our countries and our people are motivated and driven by the same things.

i get that. but again, when a great power like the united states has conflicting interests with another country, it almost always, except in the case of israel, acts in terms of it's own interests - america first. but when it comes to israel, it's israel first.




Never thought I would see a woke right, but here we are.

oh yeah. :lol mtg, steve bannon, alex jones, candace owens, tucker - all just " woke righties" now because you're not liking what they're saying. the ones not taking that dark money aren't the truth tellers but the ones that are compromised are the innocent ones. what kind of backward ass world are you living in?

in regard to iran, you'd be foolish to think that job is finished. iran will regroup and we'll have to act again and again until ultimately it will lead to another regime change war. like shawk said, if israel wants to do it then they can have at it on their own accord. we're not obligated, or at least shouldn't be, to do their dirty work.

furthermore, if israel were forced to deal with the "iran problem" on their own without big brother backing them, it would have effectively limited their freedom of action and the outcome probably would have been some sort of diplomatic solution similar to barack's iran deal, which btw - worked. worked while it lasted, anyway.

[Baller234]

@ diamenz

1. Great, Israel has it's own lobby. So does everyone else. As we speak there are 12,000+ registered "lobbyists" in Washington representing all sorts of corporations, unions, pharma, insurance and other foreign countries. So what gives Israel greater control than all of them? Please tell me. What? The Epstein files?

2. Yes those people you named are woke right when it comes to the topic of Israel, because almost every single criticism you guys make about Israel can also be applied to America. They sound like woke lefties complaining about America and complaining about white people. Israel is evil for doing this, this and this... like America wasn't built on conquest and expansion. Like America never laid waste to an opponent.

3. Oh, a diplomatic solution you say? Tell me, does that solution involve Iran being able to have a nuke?

[TheMan]

Uhh...

Because one of them is an invaluable ally and shares our values, and the other one is ruled by radical islamists???

Are you fukking stupid???
:roll:

[Baller234]

TheNazi, who would you rather have as a neighbor? A hasidic jewish family or a fundamentalist muslim family?

I'm sure neither is ideal, but if you had to pick.

[diamenz]

@ diamenz

1. Great, Israel has it's own lobby. So does everyone else. As we speak there are 12,000+ registered "lobbyists" in Washington representing all sorts of corporations, unions, pharma, insurance and other foreign countries. So what gives Israel greater control than all of them? Please tell me. What? The Epstein files?

2. Yes those people you named are woke right when it comes to the topic of Israel, because almost every single criticism you guys make about Israel can also be applied to America. They sound like woke lefties complaining about America and complaining about white people. Israel is evil for doing this, this and this... like America wasn't built on conquest and expansion. Like America never laid waste to an opponent.

3. Oh, a diplomatic solution you say? Tell me, does that solution involve Iran being able to have a nuke?

1. absolutely. i have no issue in making it clear that i don't think the israel lobby is some evil cabal or grand conspiracy and i agree that it's efforts and activities are similar to any other lobby in washington. but in regard to your question - what sets it apart from it's peers is it's extraordinary effectiveness as a consequence of our unconditional and unbridled subservience and support. as i already mentioned, in the case of conflicting interests between our countries, the united states will, in most instances, choose israel's interests over ours, even for example at the risk of our national security. for instance, take bin laden's statements in regard to his motives for carrying out the 9/11 attacks due to our proxy role in oppressing and dehumanizing palestinians. i'm not saying that this was the only reason for bin laden's ambitions in orchestrating those attacks but it was a major driving force. there's also of course the case of iraq which i'm sure you're aware of despite, i'm guessing, your lack of agreement with that theory.


so this unprecedented "generosity" is well beyond compare, particularly in contrast to the effectiveness of other country's lobbies that are for the most part economically focused and any security interests are rudimentary in scope; and again any lobbying efforts pale in comparison in efficacy. we would not and do not stick our neck out for other countries in the same way that we do israel. furthermore it should go without saying that just because other powerful lobbies exist and exert great influence over our government, doesn't exempt the israel lobby from criticism; especially now when something as controversial as what's transpiring in gaza with our tax dollars and the cancel culture and anti-semetic labeling that's being used to discredit and silence any criticism. not to mention the lobby's ability to manipulate mainstream media and sway american public opinion.

2. it's quite obvious that you haven't listened to any of the above commentators in any serious capacity in regard to this subject. aside from candace, who can stray off into liberal territory in some instances (which btw are arguments that should be at least entertained despite not havng to agree with them), their arguments are similar to mine being rooted in america first and are neither anti-israel or pro-palestinian.

3. no, incorrect. iran did not have and was not developing a nuclear weapon under barack obama's iran deal. a diplomatic solution is obviously always ideal before any type military action is taken.

[TheMan]

TheNazi, who would you rather have as a neighbor? A hasidic jewish family or a fundamentalist muslim family?

I'm sure neither is ideal, but if you had to pick.
I'd be cool with either, not all fundamentalist Muslims are jihadists like not all hasidic Jews are Zionists.

[Patrick Chewing]

I'd be cool with either, not all fundamentalist Muslims are jihadists like not all hasidic Jews are Zionists.

You shouldn't be cool with Muslims, period. Islam is hell-bent on global domination through force. Wake the **** up.

[Norcaliblunt]

The real question is when are we gonna stop giving Ukraine and Israel billions and trillions of dollars?

When are you gonna actually put your money where your typing thumb is and stop giving them money.

Stop paying taxes and protest asshole.

Quit being a p u s s.

[Overdrive]

oh yeah. :lol mtg, steve bannon, alex jones, candace owens, tucker - all just " woke righties" now because you're not liking what they're saying. the ones not taking that dark money aren't the truth tellers but the ones that are compromised are the innocent ones. what kind of backward ass world are you living in?

Dude is a zealot. He'll just parrot anything his Magadaddies will tell him.



3. Oh, a diplomatic solution you say? Tell me, does that solution involve Iran being able to have a nuke?

You can't bomb away knowledge. They'll rebuild their program sooner or later. If you don't want them to be a nuclear threat you have to make them into allies at some point and get rid of this weird fascination with "strong men". Neither Xi, Chamenei or Putin and whoever will follow them out of the same system is a "friend" of the US or the western world in any capacity.

[Baller234]

I'd be cool with either, not all fundamentalist Muslims are jihadists like not all hasidic Jews are Zionists.

As someone who claims to be a man of God, why would you lie like this? You don't think we know that you're lying?

Ok let's rephrase the question. Would you rather live in a hasidic community or a muslim community that is strictly governed by sharia law? Where would you feel more safe and tolerated? You're aware that Iran enforces legal blasphemy laws right? Can you point to any jewish community or nation that does the same? Can you point to any christian nation that does the same? So yea, nobody here seriously believes you would rather surround yourself with extreme Muslims.

It's funny, you're crying about punishing the "pedos" on the Epstein list like it's the most important thing in the world for you, but here you are simping for a country and a religion where it's legal for an adult man to take a wife at 13 years old.

[Baller234]

1. absolutely. i have no issue in making it clear that i don't think the israel lobby is some evil cabal or grand conspiracy and i agree that it's efforts and activities are similar to any other lobby in washington. but in regard to your question - what sets it apart from it's peers is it's extraordinary effectiveness as a consequence of our unconditional and unbridled subservience and support. as i already mentioned, in the case of conflicting interests between our countries, the united states will, in most instances, choose israel's interests over ours, even for example at the risk of our national security. for instance, take bin laden's statements in regard to his motives for carrying out the 9/11 attacks due to our proxy role in oppressing and dehumanizing palestinians. i'm not saying that this was the only reason for bin laden's ambitions in orchestrating those attacks but it was a major driving force. there's also of course the case of iraq which i'm sure you're aware of despite, i'm guessing, your lack of agreement with that theory.


so this unprecedented "generosity" is well beyond compare, particularly in contrast to the effectiveness of other country's lobbies that are for the most part economically focused and any security interests are rudimentary in scope; and again any lobbying efforts pale in comparison in efficacy. we would not and do not stick our neck out for other countries in the same way that we do israel. furthermore it should go without saying that just because other powerful lobbies exist and exert great influence over our government, doesn't exempt the israel lobby from criticism; especially now when something as controversial as what's transpiring in gaza with our tax dollars and the cancel culture and anti-semetic labeling that's being used to discredit and silence any criticism. not to mention the lobby's ability to manipulate mainstream media and sway american public opinion.

2. it's quite obvious that you haven't listened to any of the above commentators in any serious capacity in regard to this subject. aside from candace, who can stray off into liberal territory in some instances (which btw are arguments that should be at least entertained despite not havng to agree with them), their arguments are similar to mine being rooted in america first and are neither anti-israel or pro-palestinian.

3. no, incorrect. iran did not have and was not developing a nuclear weapon under barack obama's iran deal. a diplomatic solution is obviously always ideal before any type military action is taken.

1. Bro, you didn't answer the question at all. This whole time you've been making the case that Israel isn't just some normal lobby. That their influence outweighs everything and America always bows down at all costs. Okay so I ask again, HOW!?!? What EXACTLY gives Israel such influence? Are you telling me they have EVERYONE on supervision? THOUSANDS of politicians and military figures and not ONE person has ever put a screw in their plan?? EVERYONE in our government is being blackmailed by Israel and is just a puppet on a string!?!

2. I'm just saying the argument for being anti-zionist is total bullshit, not if you claim to be pro-american. Who says Israel didn't have the right to claim that land? What, so everyone is allowed to claim land except Israel? Every country on Earth was either conquered or claimed or taken. Saying Israel as a state doesn't have the right to exist is no different than saying that America has no right to exist. Evil zionist, evil colonizer. Same bullshit, different coat of paint.

3. The Iran deal was fukking retarded. First of all, it had 15 year limits which meant Iran could resume after that period. So what, let them make all this money for 15 years, give them more influence and sway over the region, and then in 15 years just say hey you're off probation now you can resume building your nuclear weapons??? :oldlol: As if they aren't gonna be violating the agreement the entire time?? Obama sent a shitload of cash to Iran on his way out too. So that's the plan? Pay our enemies NOT to develop a weapon?? :oldlol:

[Norcaliblunt]

Imagine being pro 2nd amendment and then saying another country aren’t allowed to develop their own weapons?

It’s the most hypocritical weird cognitive dissonance I’ve seen in a while.

The people who want control Iran and their weapons are the same who wanna control you and your guns.

Stop being blind idiots.

[j3lademaster]

Imagine being pro 2nd amendment and then saying another country aren’t allowed to develop their own weapons?

It’s the most hypocritical weird cognitive dissonance I’ve seen in a while.

The people who want control Iran and their weapons are the same who wanna control you and your guns.

Stop being blind idiots.

You understand there's a distinct difference between believing people should be able to own firearms for hunting and as a equalizer vs believing everyone should be able to own a nuke, right? Guns prevent 'might makes right'. A 5'3 115 lbs woman should not be at the mercy of a average sized mugger because she isn't allowed to carry to a gun. Owning a nuke gives power to the scale where you can oppress entire peoples. Huge difference.

[diamenz]

1. Bro, you didn't answer the question at all. This whole time you've been making the case that Israel isn't just some normal lobby. That their influence outweighs everything and America always bows down at all costs. Okay so I ask again, HOW!?!? What EXACTLY gives Israel such influence? Are you telling me they have EVERYONE on supervision? THOUSANDS of politicians and military figures and not ONE person has ever put a screw in their plan?? EVERYONE in our government is being blackmailed by Israel and is just a puppet on a string!?!

money - there isn't anything in this world that's more reliable than a man that can be bought with cold, hard cash. the israel lobby is at the top of the pyramid in regard to legal bribery on the hill.

politics - aipac. election manipulation. blackmail/kompromat. general ability to affect the careers of politicians. israel owns the mudpit in this regard.

religion - christian zionists, evangelical christians and to a lesser extent european guilt. this is arguably more powerful than the money aspect and that's saying something with how much of it gets funneled through congress.

-evil jewish wizards

there's also the fear of publicly being labeled as antisemitic and as i already mentioned, media control.

these three (money, politics and religion) combined key aspects are what sets the israel lobby apart from other powerful lobbies in washington in terms of it's effectiveness.


2. I'm just saying the argument for being anti-zionist is total bullshit, not if you claim to be pro-american. Who says Israel didn't have the right to claim that land? What, so everyone is allowed to claim land except Israel? Every country on Earth was either conquered or claimed or taken. Saying Israel as a state doesn't have the right to exist is no different than saying that America has no right to exist. Evil zionist, evil colonizer. Same bullshit, different coat of paint.

alright then let's just tell it like it really is because you seem to be a straightforward guy - israel wants the land. that's what this is about. and because we're facilitating the mass murder and ethnic cleansing with our *ucking money, people have the right to oppose it. i don't support it.

[diamenz]

You understand there's a distinct difference between believing people should be able to own firearms for hunting and as a equalizer vs believing everyone should be able to own a nuke, right? Guns prevent 'might makes right'. A 5'3 115 lbs woman should not be at the mercy of a average sized mugger because she isn't allowed to carry to a gun. Owning a nuke gives power to the scale where you can oppress entire peoples. Huge difference.

bro some people just aren't worth replying to.

[TheMan]

As someone who claims to be a man of God, why would you lie like this? You don't think we know that you're lying?

Ok let's rephrase the question. Would you rather live in a hasidic community or a muslim community that is strictly governed by sharia law? Where would you feel more safe and tolerated? You're aware that Iran enforces legal blasphemy laws right? Can you point to any jewish community or nation that does the same? Can you point to any christian nation that does the same? So yea, nobody here seriously believes you would rather surround yourself with extreme Muslims.

It's funny, you're crying about punishing the "pedos" on the Epstein list like it's the most important thing in the world for you, but here you are simping for a country and a religion where it's legal for an adult man to take a wife at 13 years old.

Lol, way to move the goalposts. Now I gotta choose between living in an Islamic state or Israel? Lol I choose neither. I've seen the videos of Orthodox Jews spitting on Christians in Jerusalem, Zionists have repeatedly bombed Catholic churches in Gaza, they're not our allies, dummies like Chewing will pretend this isn't so but y'all don't fool me.

[TheMan]

1. Bro, you didn't answer the question at all. This whole time you've been making the case that Israel isn't just some normal lobby. That their influence outweighs everything and America always bows down at all costs. Okay so I ask again, HOW!?!? What EXACTLY gives Israel such influence? Are you telling me they have EVERYONE on supervision? THOUSANDS of politicians and military figures and not ONE person has ever put a screw in their plan?? EVERYONE in our government is being blackmailed by Israel and is just a puppet on a string!?!

2. I'm just saying the argument for being anti-zionist is total bullshit, not if you claim to be pro-american. Who says Israel didn't have the right to claim that land? What, so everyone is allowed to claim land except Israel? Every country on Earth was either conquered or claimed or taken. Saying Israel as a state doesn't have the right to exist is no different than saying that America has no right to exist. Evil zionist, evil colonizer. Same bullshit, different coat of paint.

3. The Iran deal was fukking retarded. First of all, it had 15 year limits which meant Iran could resume after that period. So what, let them make all this money for 15 years, give them more influence and sway over the region, and then in 15 years just say hey you're off probation now you can resume building your nuclear weapons??? :oldlol: As if they aren't gonna be violating the agreement the entire time?? Obama sent a shitload of cash to Iran on his way out too. So that's the plan? Pay our enemies NOT to develop a weapon?? :oldlol:

The money that Obama sent Iran was theirs to begin with, Iran isn't a US welfare queen like Israel.

[Baller234]

@diamenz

1. So Isreal is able to control the U.S. because they control our politicians. They have everyone on payroll and/or can threaten to blackmail them. You still haven't explained how that makes them different from any other powerful lobby.

2. I don't think it's a land grab, I think it's a "sit the fukk down". Nobody bombed their entire country, they were just disarmed militarily. That along with some top people getting whacked. It was a message to both the country and it's leadership.

This shit has probably been in motion for years. Trump basically did a grand tour of the middle east this year and they received him like a king. These guys have probably been dying to muscle Iran out of the paint. These guys want to do business. They want to make money. No one is fighting when you're all making money. I don't think for a second that Israel is in this alone. ALL these countries are trying to get Iran on the same page.

[Baller234]

The money that Obama sent Iran was theirs to begin with, Iran isn't a US welfare queen like Israel.

Wait is Israel a welfare queen or is Israel pulling the strings? You can only pick one, buddy. :oldlol:

[Baller234]

Lol, way to move the goalposts. Now I gotta choose between living in an Islamic state or Israel? Lol I choose neither. I've seen the videos of Orthodox Jews spitting on Christians in Jerusalem, Zionists have repeatedly bombed Catholic churches in Gaza, they're not our allies, dummies like Chewing will pretend this isn't so but y'all don't fool me.

So if Israel isn't an ally, what are they? An enemy? What does that make Iran?

[HoopsNY]

Uhh...

Because one of them is an invaluable ally and shares our values, and the other one is ruled by radical islamists???

Are you fukking stupid???

"Invaluable ally" for who? And since when does the ally continuously spy on us, play a hand in the sinking of our ships, assassination of our presidents, steal our nuclear secrets, and motivate us to go to war for their gain, resulting in the deaths of 7,000 of our own troops?

Sorry but I don't believe in the "radical islamists" fake propaganda anymore. That's what they sold to us with the war in Iraq. Notice when ISIS came along in Syria, they never attacked Israel? And look who's leading Syria now...surprise surprise.

I'm not the stupid one. I read into your beloved "ally" and their history. They're demons who use the US for their own political gain. I'm simply not ok with fighting wars for someone else.

Who the hell would run up their national debt for the sake of a nation that's really not an ally at all to the sum of $6 trillion? You expect us to be ok with this? What planet are you living on?

[Baller234]

"Invaluable ally" for who? And since when does the ally continuously spy on us, play a hand in the sinking of our ships, assassination of our presidents, steal our nuclear secrets, and motivate us to go to war for their gain, resulting in the deaths of 7,000 of our own troops?

Sorry but I don't believe in the "radical islamists" fake propaganda anymore. That's what they sold to us with the war in Iraq. Notice when ISIS came along in Syria, they never attacked Israel? And look who's leading Syria now...surprise surprise.

I'm not the stupid one. I read into your beloved "ally" and their history. They're demons who use the US for their own political gain. I'm simply not ok with fighting wars for someone else.

Who the hell would run up their national debt for the sake of a nation that's really not an ally at all to the sum of $6 trillion? You expect us to be ok with this? What planet are you living on?

Oh wow, I didn't know we were dealing with actual demons. If that's the case we might be in above our heads.

20+ years of conspiracy planning involving all of the world's top leaders without a hiccup. I would watch my step.

[TheMan]

Wait is Israel a welfare queen or is Israel pulling the strings? You can only pick one, buddy. :oldlol:

They've received hundreds of billions of our tax dollars because AIPAC owns Washington. That's the very definition of welfare queens. Don't play dumb.

[TheMan]

So if Israel isn't an ally, what are they? An enemy? What does that make Iran?

They pretend to be our ally solely because it's convenient for them. Zionists by definition believe in Jewish supremacy, they're an ethnostate, we are just lowly goy. Mind you I'm not saying all Jewish people believe this but Zionists and more than 90% of Isrealis hold this view. Netanyahu and his ilk are literal nazi demons, perpetrating the same crimes that the Germans did to them not even 100 years ago. Israel is literally the most hated nation on earth today. What they’re doing to the Palestinian people in Gaza will not bring them more security, quite the opposite. They will pay for their war crimes someday.

[Baller234]

They pretend to be our ally solely because it's convenient for them. Zionists by definition believe in Jewish supremacy, they're an ethnostate, we are just lowly goy. Mind you I'm not saying all Jewish people believe this but Zionists and more than 90% of Isrealis hold this view. Netanyahu and his ilk are literal nazi demons, perpetrating the same crimes that the Germans did to them not even 100 years ago. Israel is literally the most hated nation on earth today. What they’re doing to the Palestinian people in Gaza will not bring them more security, quite the opposite. They will pay for their war crimes someday.

Israel is currently around 73% jewish. How is it an ethnostate?

More than 1/4 of the population is non-jewish.

[TheMan]

Israel is currently around 73% jewish. How is it an ethnostate?

More than 1/4 of the population is non-jewish.

And they're actively working on getting rid of the Palestinians, taking over Gaza and the West Bank, parts of Syria for a Greater Israel territory.

[warriorfan]

TheBeaner throws his shitty toilet paper in the trash can while he whines about America and Israel all day.

What a life.

[tpols]

They pretend to be our ally solely because it's convenient for them. Zionists by definition believe in Jewish supremacy, they're an ethnostate, we are just lowly goy. Mind you I'm not saying all Jewish people believe this but Zionists and more than 90% of Isrealis hold this view. Netanyahu and his ilk are literal nazi demons, perpetrating the same crimes that the Germans did to them not even 100 years ago. Israel is literally the most hated nation on earth today. What they’re doing to the Palestinian people in Gaza will not bring them more security, quite the opposite. They will pay for their war crimes someday.

Did we just become best friends primo?

Youre welcome as honorary gringo into my unit.

[j3lademaster]

Israel is currently around 73% jewish. How is it an ethnostate?

More than 1/4 of the population is non-jewish.

Ethnostate means they restrict citizenship for people who aren’t a certain ethnicity. In Israel’s example, it is easier for Jews to receive citizenship than anyone else. Israel is also a majority Jewish representation in govt and representing Jewish interests. Though you might have me on that last one, Netanyahu obviously doesn’t care about Israeli people seeing as how he gave zero ****s about the hostages. Even Hamas leadership were like “dis mfer cold af”.

[diamenz]

@diamenz

1. So Isreal is able to control the U.S. because they control our politicians. They have everyone on payroll and/or can threaten to blackmail them. You still haven't explained how that makes them different from any other powerful lobby.

2. I don't think it's a land grab, I think it's a "sit the fukk down". Nobody bombed their entire country, they were just disarmed militarily. That along with some top people getting whacked. It was a message to both the country and it's leadership.

This shit has probably been in motion for years. Trump basically did a grand tour of the middle east this year and they received him like a king. These guys have probably been dying to muscle Iran out of the paint. These guys want to do business. They want to make money. No one is fighting when you're all making money. I don't think for a second that Israel is in this alone. ALL these countries are trying to get Iran on the same page.

1. why did you disregard everything else that i stated aside from the money and blackmail aspects? especially the religious side? my argument in response to your question was that no other lobbies have as much going for them as the israel lobby, not only in terms of unique and distinguished traits but how substantial those traits are; and that's in turn what sets it apart from the rest of them.

so this may be a silly analogy because i'm not the most articulate guy, but think of the lobbies as video game characters. all of the stock characters excel at one thing or another but no character excels in every attribute. some have high strength but lack intelligence or vice versa. some characters may lack one or two attributes completely. then you have the cheat code character that not only possesses but excels at every single attribute - that's the israel lobby.

2. we were talking about israel taking gaza and the west bank in terms of land grabbing and ethnic cleansing. not iran. i could care less about bombing iran in contrast to the lobby's influence on our government and what we have a hand in doing to the palestinians, so long as it doesn't ultimately lead to a hot war (with iran).

you made the argument that war & conquest is the reality of the world and that israel has the right to claim that land (gaza & the west bank) if they so choose, despite how much collateral damage is delt to the civilian population. so i assume that you also believe in effect that they have the right to push the palestinian people into the sinai desert (aka ethnic cleansing) and that other muslim countries like egypt, jordan and syria should step up and take those two million refugees, correct? and in the process, murder them in massive amounts because they obviously won't go quietly. israel certainly doesn't want to be burdened with governing them. what better opportunity than now to 'get rid' of them?

...because that's what's currently in the process of happening. you heard the news the other day i'm sure - israel announced that they will fully occupy gaza. anyone with two eyes and a triple digit iq knows that once gaza is cleaned up and rebuilt that those two million palestinians won't be allowed back in - it'll become greater israel. i mean come on bro - you can't be this ignorant and gullible. this is what the israeli government has wanted for years and years - to finally rid themselves of the thorne in their side of the palestinians and expand israel. let's wake up and smell the proverbial coffee, eh? let's be straightforward about this.

[Baller234]

1. why did you disregard everything else that i stated aside from the money and blackmail aspects? especially the religious side? my argument in response to your question was that no other lobbies have as much going for them as the israel lobby, not only in terms of unique and distinguished traits but how substantial those traits are; and that's in turn what sets it apart from the rest of them.

so this may be a silly analogy because i'm not the most articulate guy, but think of the lobbies as video game characters. all of the stock characters excel at one thing or another but no character excels in every attribute. some have high strength but lack intelligence or vice versa. some characters may lack one or two attributes completely. then you have the cheat code character that not only possesses but excels at every single attribute - that's the israel lobby.

2. we were talking about israel taking gaza and the west bank in terms of land grabbing and ethnic cleansing. not iran. i could care less about bombing iran in contrast to the lobby's influence on our government and what we have a hand in doing to the palestinians, so long as it doesn't ultimately lead to a hot war (with iran).

you made the argument that war & conquest is the reality of the world and that israel has the right to claim that land (gaza & the west bank) if they so choose, despite how much collateral damage is delt to the civilian population. so i assume that you also believe in effect that they have the right to push the palestinian people into the sinai desert (aka ethnic cleansing) and that other muslim countries like egypt, jordan and syria should step up and take those two million refugees, correct? and in the process, murder them in massive amounts because they obviously won't go quietly. israel certainly doesn't want to be burdened with governing them. what better opportunity than now to 'get rid' of them?

...because that's what's currently in the process of happening. you heard the news the other day i'm sure - israel announced that they will fully occupy gaza. anyone with two eyes and a triple digit iq knows that once gaza is cleaned up and rebuilt that those two million palestinians won't be allowed back in - it'll become greater israel. i mean come on bro - you can't be this ignorant and gullible. this is what the israeli government has wanted for years and years - to finally rid themselves of the thorne in their side of the palestinians and expand israel. let's wake up and smell the proverbial coffee, eh? let's be straightforward about this.

1.

Because you know as well as I do that "religion" isn't what drives most politicians on top. Most of them sold their souls a long time ago. You almost have to at that level. It's like how in the mob when you become a made guy you burn a picture of a saint. I find it really hard to believe that our leaders feel morally obligated to Israel because of their "deeply held religious beliefs".

I'm willing to concede that Israel has some semblance of influence, just not the death grip you guys are peddling. It doesn't make sense. All sorts of powerful parties have sway in Washington.


2.

When it came to claiming of land I was referring to the state of Israel itself. Apparently if you believe that Israel has a right to exist in it's current state, that makes you a zionist. It's "stolen land" according to those people.

As for Gaza, we have no idea what's going to happen to those citizens or what type of arrangement the surrounding countries happen to agree upon. Unfortunately those people backed a terrorist government that escalated a war with a stronger and more capable country.

I don't believe occupation was always the plan. Long before Oct 7 there had been numerous attempts to broker a peace deal. They declined.

[Baller234]

And they're actively working on getting rid of the Palestinians, taking over Gaza and the West Bank, parts of Syria for a Greater Israel territory.

When I say that Israel is only 73% jewish, I'm referring to Israel proper. That doesn't include Gaza or the palestinian population of the west bank. How is that an ethnostate?

Plenty of other countries have far less diverse populations:

(this is taken directly from ChatGPT)




East Asia

Japan – ~97–98% ethnic Japanese

South Korea – ~96–98% ethnic Koreans

China – ~91–92% Han Chinese

Europe

Poland – ~96–97% ethnic Poles

Iceland – ~93–94% of Icelandic origin

Portugal – ~95% ethnic Portuguese

Middle East & North Africa

Egypt – ~99% ethnic Egyptian (Arabized)

Saudi Arabia – >90% ethnic Arab

Jordan – ~98% Arab (mostly of Palestinian or Transjordanian heritage)

Africa (Sub-Saharan)

Somalia – >85–90% Somali ethnic group

Lesotho – ~99% Basotho people

Oceania

Tonga – ~97% Polynesian Tongan

Samoa – ~96–98% Samoan



^ Are these all evil ethnostates as well?

[TheMan]

TheBeaner throws his shitty toilet paper in the trash can while he whines about America and Israel all day.

What a life.

Methy always seething when I drop truth bombs...go suck a dick for another hit, hick

[TheMan]

When I say that Israel is only 73% jewish, I'm referring to Israel proper. That doesn't include Gaza or the palestinian population of the west bank. How is that an ethnostate?

Plenty of other countries have far less diverse populations:

(this is taken directly from ChatGPT)



^ Are these all evil ethnostates as well?

None of those are occupying another people nor are they applying apartheid policies. You're boring, you know what's going on, you know full well it's genocide. Americans are waking up to Israel's evil, some are too retarded like methy warriorfan but most people who aren't inbred like him are hip to what y'all are doing...

Again, stop acting stupid.

[Baller234]

None of those are occupying another people nor are they applying apartheid policies. You're boring, you know what's going on, you know full well it's genocide. Americans are waking up to Israel's evil, some are too retarded like methy warriorfan but most people who aren't inbred like him are hip to what y'all are doing...

Again, stop acting stupid.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Uh, China?? Uyghur Muslims were imprisoned and sentenced to forced labor. They had to undergo "re-education" and are forbidden from practicing their religion.

This isn't some secret. This has been out in the open for years. I can't believe this needed to be pointed out for you. You care so much for the oppressed muslims of the world, I thought for sure you would have called out China by now.

Do I have to ask Siri? Should we see how many times you've posted about China oppressing the minority population? Or how many times you've referred to China as an evil ethnostate?

[ShawkFactory]

When I say that Israel is only 73% jewish, I'm referring to Israel proper. That doesn't include Gaza or the palestinian population of the west bank. How is that an ethnostate?

Plenty of other countries have far less diverse populations:

(this is taken directly from ChatGPT)



^ Are these all evil ethnostates as well?

Some perhaps. Many are island nations that have no business even being mentioned in this thread.

By why would that matter in this discussion?

[Baller234]

Some perhaps. Many are island nations that have no business even being mentioned in this thread.

By why would that matter in this discussion?

Because Israel and only Israel is being criticized for being an ethnostate?

Which again is weird considering it's more diverse population compared to those same countries.

[ShawkFactory]

Because Israel and only Israel is being criticized for being an ethnostate?

Which again is weird considering it's more diverse population compared to those same countries.

How much money do we give to China or Somalia? How many Chinese or Somalian lobbies are there in the US and how many federal policies and actions are being acted out in their interest? Maybe some research funding here and there. Pennies on the dollar in comparison.

Yes, the Israel actions can certainly be criticized but the real criticism and discussion here is about our own government being complicit and often straight-up funding these actions.

You see the difference? Other countries do it too, sure. But that's not at all relevant to the topic so why would it be mentioned? It's just a whataboutism..per usual.

[Baller234]

How much money do we give to China or Somalia? How many Chinese or Somalian lobbies are there in the US and how many federal policies and actions are being acted out in their interest? Maybe some research funding here and there. Pennies on the dollar in comparison.

Yes, the Israel actions can certainly be criticized but the real criticism and discussion here is about our own government being complicit and often straight-up funding these actions.

You see the difference? Other countries do it too, sure. But that's not at all relevant to the topic so why would it be mentioned? It's just a whataboutism..per usual.

You're aware that Tim Walz who was almost our VP is on record as having visited China over 30 times right? You don't think China has it's hooks in our government just like every other powerful nation? When Covid was happening, the democratic party tried to silence anyone who even DARED to suggest that China was behind it. Why is that?

And Somalia? Are you kidding? We have somalian members of congress who publicly declare their loyalty to Somalia over America. They get treated like rock stars and grace magazine covers. As we speak there is basically a somalian takeover happening in Minnesota.

[ShawkFactory]

You're aware that Tim Walz who was almost our VP is on record as having visited China over 30 times right? You don't think China has it's hooks in our government just like every other powerful nation? When Covid was happening, the democratic party tried to silence anyone who even DARED to suggest that China was behind it. Why is that?

And Somalia? Are you kidding? We have somalian members of congress who publicly declare their loyalty to Somalia over America. They get treated like rock stars and grace magazine covers. As we speak there is basically a somalian takeover happening in Minnesota.

What purposes are those for?

90%+ of our expenditures in China are for research programs. Given the nature of how Covid started (or at least presumed), you could see why there might be some quiet folks on that.

90%+ of the aid given to Somalia is purely for humanitarian relief.

Complete apples and oranges. Also, again...pennies on the dollar. Or in the case of the "Somali takeover"..a drop in the bucket comparatively.

[Baller234]

What purposes are those for?

90%+ of our expenditures in China are for research programs. Given the nature of how Covid started (or at least presumed), you could see why there might be some quiet folks on that.

90%+ of the aid given to Somalia is purely for humanitarian relief.

Complete apples and oranges. Also, again...pennies on the dollar. Or in the case of the "Somali takeover"..a drop in the bucket comparatively.

Apples and oranges? China didn't have a hand in Covid? There weren't people in our own government conspiring with them?

Okay if that wasn't the case, why did the democrats do everything they could to divert attention away from the "lab leak" theory? How come we were expected to buy the bat soup narrative?

Covid wasn't something that had major implications on govt policy and the world at large?

[ShawkFactory]

Apples and oranges? China didn't have a hand in Covid? There weren't people in our own government conspiring with them?

Okay if that wasn't the case, why did the democrats do everything they could to divert attention away from the "lab leak" theory? How come we were expected to buy the bat soup narrative?

Covid wasn't something that had major implications on govt policy and the world at large?

Sure it did. You'd have to believe that that was the intent though. I don't.

[Baller234]

Sure it did. You'd have to believe that that was the intent though. I don't.

You don't think it was all intentional? The virus? The lockdowns? The policies? The media narratives? The voting by mail? :oldlol:

Either you believe the virus was man made and leaked intentionally, or you believe it was a once in a lifetime plague that came from a bat. If you believe it's the former, then best believe there was intent behind it.

I don't know how anyone could live through 2020-2021 and not walk away thinking that China had tremendous influence over our government.

[ShawkFactory]

You don't think it was all intentional? The virus? The lockdowns? The policies? The media narratives? The voting by mail? :oldlol:

Either you believe the virus was man made and leaked intentionally, or you believe it was a once in a lifetime plague that came from a bat. If you believe it's the former, then best believe there was intent behind it.

I don't know how anyone could live through 2020-2021 and not walk away thinking that China had tremendous influence over our government.

So I'll just throw aside how the conversation has been diverted from US foreign aid differences between China and Israel (which are vast).

You clearly don't know anything about virology. Yes, it is possible that a once in a lifetime plague came from an animal. The fact that you think this is some crazy hypothesis shows truly how much you know. It's happened plenty of times before and the last time it happened, even if you don't believe this was the case for Covid, will likely not be the last. A majority of wide-spread infectious diseases in humans come from animals.

For the sake of the argument though, let's rule that "crazy" idea out though and assume (again..purely for the sake of this argument) that it did in fact begin in a lab. You think it's more likely that the US was conspiring with China to release a deadly pandemic to shut down the world than simply a gain-of-function study on a previous strand of coronavirus gone wrong?

And you ask why would the left-wing politicians in the US try to cover it up? Plenty of reasons. My best guess though would be so as to not create even further distrust among the right-wing population in scientific methods, as this is a big point for the democratic side. That and a little dash of protecting the reputations of those involved. If this were the case would it be shady? For sure. But a far cry from spending money and acting intentionally to further China's interests and standing.

[Baller234]

So I'll just throw aside how the conversation has been diverted from US foreign aid differences between China and Israel (which are vast).

You clearly don't know anything about virology. Yes, it is possible that a once in a lifetime plague came from an animal. The fact that you think this is some crazy hypothesis shows truly how much you know. It's happened plenty of times before and the last time it happened, even if you don't believe this was the case for Covid, will likely not be the last. A majority of majorly infectious diseases come from animals.

For the sake of the argument though, let's rule that "crazy" idea though out and assume (purely for the sake of this argument) that it did in fact begin in a lab. You think it's more likely that the US was conspiring with China to release a deadly pandemic to shut down the world than simply a gain-of-function study on a previous strand of coronavirus gone wrong?

And you ask why would the left-wing politicians in the US try to cover it up? Plenty of reasons. My best guess though would be so as to not create even further distrust among the right-wing population in scientific methods, as this is a big point for the democratic side. That and a little dash of protecting the reputations of those involved. If this were the case would it be shady? For sure. But a far cry from spending money and acting intentionally to further China's interests and standing.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Say no more.

Let me guess, you're vaccinated.

[ShawkFactory]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Say no more.

Let me guess, you're vaccinated.

I don't need to guess that you know absolutely nothing about the subject. That much is clear.

It's weird to be so seemingly factually convinced about something you know nothing about. Seems like all of your information comes from politics. That's a choice I guess..

[Baller234]

I don't need to guess that you know absolutely nothing about the subject. That much is clear.

It's weird to be so seemingly factually convinced about something you know nothing about. Seems like all of your information comes from politics. That's a choice I guess..

So you're vaccinated then.

How many times? 2x? 4x?

[ShawkFactory]

So you're vaccinated then.

How many times? 2x? 4x?

2.

Sweet deflection though :lol

Your misplaced clowning isn't going to save you from your ignorance on the subject.

[Baller234]

2.

Sweet deflection though :lol

Your misplaced clowning isn't going to save you from your ignorance on the subject.

Guy who's twice vaccinated and thinks Covid came from bat soup is calling someone else ignorant.

:oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

I know it's only one sentence but it's so stupid that I'll break it down :lol


Guy who's twice vaccinated

Worked in healthcare at the time and it was required (microbiology major, and yes..virology is a part of that). I wasn't particularly thrilled about it but wasn't upset either. Just a neutral thing that I did so that I could continue working in the field I was in. Not really much else to it :confusedshrug:


thinks Covid came from bat soup

When did I say that? Once again you're employing strawmen and letting your assumptions get the better of you because..well I'm not really sure.

And the fact that you're so clueless on this subject makes it particularly cringe. Try a little harder. Or don't. Don't really give a shit.