Top 10 peaks since 2000, who makes the cut

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm not even talking specific single year peaks, though you could to that route if you want. I'm talking just how great they were at their best. This was more difficult than I had anticipated, my list would go

LeBron
Shaq
Jokic
Curry
Giannis
Duncan
Kawhi
Wade
Kobe
Luka

I agonized over the last spot between Luka & KD. I know Luka has his legitimate flaws, but gun to my head, I was more impressed with what he accomplished in Dallas than what KD's done outside of Golden State, so I'd give the slightest of nods to him, though I know I'll be in the minority on that as KD's more established and is a stupidly talented player.

I also know I'll get some pushback on Giannis too, but despite his legitimate flaws and ugly ass game he's been a dominant, elite two way player.

Is there anyone else you would put on your list that didn't make the cut; KG, Dirk, AD, SGA, McGrady?

[1987_Lakers]

I believe LeBron, Shaq, Jokic, & Curry are the obvious top 4, in that order.

After that, the debate begins. Would probably put KD on the list, ahead of Kobe, with Luka & Kobe battling it out for the last spot.

[Norcaliblunt]

Shaq
Duncan
Curry
LeBron
Kobe

That order. F the rest.

[Full Court]

I'm not even talking specific single year peaks, though you could to that route if you want. I'm talking just how great they were at their best. This was more difficult than I had anticipated, my list would go

LeBron
Shaq
Jokic
Curry
Giannis
Duncan
Kawhi
Wade
Kobe
Luka

I agonized over the last spot between Luka & KD. I know Luka has his legitimate flaws, but gun to my head, I was more impressed with what he accomplished in Dallas than what KD's done outside of Golden State, so I'd give the slightest of nods to him, though I know I'll be in the minority on that as KD's more established and is a stupidly talented player.

I also know I'll get some pushback on Giannis too, but despite his legitimate flaws and ugly ass game he's been a dominant, elite two way player.

Is there anyone else you would put on your list that didn't make the cut; KG, Dirk, AD, SGA, McGrady?

I'm more impressed with SGA than with anything Luka or KD have done.

[Manny98]

1. LeBron
2. Jokic
3. Shaq
4. Giannis
5. Duncan
6. Curry
7. KG
8. CP3
9. Wade
10. Durant

Hm: Harden, Kobe, Kawhi

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron
Shaq
Jokic
Luka
Kawhi
Duncan
Giannis
Curry
KG
Wade

HM: Kobe, Harden, Durant

Not sure about the order of the last 2+3 HMs.

[John8204]

1. Lebron
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Jokic
5. Curry
6. Garnett
7. Shaq
8. Dirk
9. Giannis
10. Iverson

[tpols]

2004 MVP KG was probably top peak. And 2008 Kobe. 2016 Curry as well. These were freak seasons.

[FultzNationRISE]

Hmm.

1. Heat Bron
2. Second Cavs Era Bron
3. First Cavs Bron/Lakers Bron
4. Lakers Bron/First Cavs Bron
5. Shaq
6. Jokic
7. '25 Summer League Bronny

The rest who cares

[Im Still Ballin]

1. Jokic
2. Dirk
3. Doncic
4. Nash
5. Love
6. Kirilenko
7. Peja
8. Chet
9. Stockton
10. Hayward

[beasted]

1. Jokic
2. Dirk
3. Doncic
4. Nash
5. Love
6. Kirilenko
7. Peja
8. Chet
9. Stockton
10. Hayward
No Domantis Sabonis? Troll failed at his one job. :facepalm

Your people would not be proud.

I'd also bump someone there for David Lee.

[Baller234]

The sick part is I can't tell if people are trolling with the whole Kobe thing or not.

The highest peak since 2000 has to go either Kobe or Lebron imo, you could make a case for both. Personally I lean Kobe but I won't get mad if someone says Lebron. Same tier.

Ranking the rest is really tough, and it becomes even tougher once you take era into account and how the game has so radically changed. Like how do you even compare the impact of Curry compared to Duncan. They don't even feel like they were playing the same game.

[tpols]

The sick part is I can't tell if people are trolling with the whole Kobe thing or not.

The highest peak since 2000 has to go either Kobe or Lebron imo, you could make a case for both. Personally I lean Kobe but I won't get mad if someone says Lebron. Same tier.

Ranking the rest is really tough, and it becomes even tougher once you take era into account and how the game has so radically changed. Like how do you even compare the impact of Curry compared to Duncan. They don't even feel like they were playing the same game.

There's a lot of bitter trolls on this site that hate Kobe and it skews their perspective away from the truth.

[ShawkFactory]

There's a lot of bitter trolls on this site that hate Kobe and it skews their perspective away from the truth.

True.

Replace Kobe with LeBron there and the statement is also true.

[Phoenix]

Can you imagine how Curry would be viewed if he capped off 2016 with a title?

[fsvr54]

Peak Kawhi is way more incredible than people think.

[tpols]

True.

Replace Kobe with LeBron there and the statement is also true.

People wouldn't exclude Lebron from this list. Even I wouldn't. 2018 Lebron has MDE status. But there's some who consider Kobe on Harden level and they're not trolling. Just ignorant.

[tpols]

Can you imagine how Curry would be viewed if he capped off 2016 with a title?

It was probably the most alien season ever. He mastered the half court shot like it was a free throw. He did things that would get you benched in 99% of basketball history.

[Phoenix]

Peak Kawhi is way more incredible than people think.

Kawhi was getting tons of props back in 2020. Problem for him is he's become more known for 'load-managing' than how good he actually is/was.

[fsvr54]

Kawhi was getting tons of props back in 2020. Problem for him is he's become more known for 'load-managing' than how good he actually is/was.

I mean, it's not his fault his body sucks. Even during the 2019 playoffs he was injured, so he wasn't even full-strength.

[Phoenix]

People wouldn't exclude Lebron from this list. Even I wouldn't. 2018 Lebron has MDE status. But there's some who consider Kobe on Harden level and they're not trolling. Just ignorant.

And 30 years from now, people watching his highlights will still be shaking their heads. People like to say what makes him him relatable is because they feel they have a chance to replicate his skillset but nah....you could shoot 2000 shots a day starting from 10 years old and not become that level of shooter. He was seeing matrix code out there from the 3point line, an actual 1 of 1.

[Phoenix]

I mean, it's not his fault his body sucks. Even during the 2019 playoffs he was injured, so he wasn't even full-strength.

I didn't say it was, I'm saying that's what people nowadays mostly think of when his name surfaces. It wasn't to say it's necessarily fair....

[ArbitraryWater]

The sick part is I can't tell if people are trolling with the whole Kobe thing or not.

The highest peak since 2000 has to go either Kobe or Lebron imo, you could make a case for both. Personally I lean Kobe but I won't get mad if someone says Lebron. Same tier.

Ranking the rest is really tough, and it becomes even tougher once you take era into account and how the game has so radically changed. Like how do you even compare the impact of Curry compared to Duncan. They don't even feel like they were playing the same game.

kennethgriffin confirmed I knew it

[ArbitraryWater]

2004 MVP KG was probably top peak. And 2008 Kobe. 2016 Curry as well. These were freak seasons.

Wth was „freak“ about 2008 Kobe? :lol


Anyway I feel like the best basketball versions on this planet the last 25 years would somehow manage to actually play well in the biggest moment and do better than 24 pts on 46% in the WCF, 26 pts on 41% in the Finals and 23 pts on 40% in the Finals, but that might just be me :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

Wth was „freak“ about 2008 Kobe? :lol


Anyway I feel like the best basketball versions on this planet the last 25 years would somehow manage to actually play well in the biggest moment and do better than 24 pts on 46% in the WCF, 26 pts on 41% in the Finals and 23 pts on 40% in the Finals, but that might just be me :confusedshrug:

2008 Boston was one of the best defenses and teams ever.

A lot of people remember 2011 but Lebrons worst playoff series of his career mightve happened vs Boston that year.

2008 Kobe had it all put together. Best defense of his career, most control and discipline on offense of his career, and a thirst like no other to "win without Shaq".

Which even after he did multiple times you and others still denigrate. For today. You didn't even watch NBA prior to 2010.

[Norcaliblunt]

Duncan and Shaq are literally the most underrated mofos in my life.

They are head and shoulders better than everyone on this list it’s crazy.

Lmao at putting any guard, small forward, tweener or whatever ahead of them.

Durant? Wade? LeBron? Kobe?

Ridiculous.

[beasted]

Duncan and Shaq are literally the most underrated mofos in my life.

They are head and shoulders better than everyone on this list it’s crazy.

Lmao at putting any guard, small forward, tweener or whatever ahead of them.

Durant? Wade? LeBron? Kobe?

Ridiculous.

Unfortunately it's a product of the media. It's easier to sell similarities to the fans. You've heard "the next" with all of the guys you've mentioned:

Durant > PG13, Ingram, Risacher, etc
Wade > Rose, Mitchell, Edwards, etc.
LeBron > Simmons, Luka, etc.
Kobe > Roy, DeRozan, Harden, etc.

Do you know how many times I've heard a player seriously compared to be the next Duncan or Shaq?

[3ba11]

Jamison was 14th for MVP in 2008 and Pau was considered worse than him with less all-star appearances than Jamison or Zydrunas.

Yet Kobe repeated with Pau and turned him into a perennial All-NBA guy

That's the goat peak since 2000, aka doing the most with the least (or Curry winning with Klay and then Mr. Loser, aka Wiggins)

Of course, Kobe also defeated max defensive attention (carrying scoring load for PO and Finals), which is a characteristic of the most dominant title runs, aka 94' Hakeem, 06' Wade, etc

Otoh, Lebron always had teammates to match his scoring and offensive threat, such as Kyrie, Wade or AD - all three matched or exceeded him in PPG for a playoff run . That simply doesn't compare to the ring quality of Curry or Kobe... Kobe won with a 2nd option that was worse than Lebron's 3rd options, so case closed - Kobe is far superior

[StrongLurk]

Just pick Lebron's best 10 years. EZ.

[Baller234]

Shaq had the highest peak and was the best player? Better than Bron? Kobe? Duncan?

The guy that can't hit free throws? The guy who only ever won a ring playing with another ATG guard? Should we ignore that they both went onto win multiple times without him?

Shaq was truly dominant for stretch, you can't take that away from him, but part of that was a byproduct of him being the last big standing. That and the physicality he was allowed to impose. But even if we give him credit for being dominant, he had arguably the greatest "sidekick" in history. A guy that proved he was an alpha in the waiting.

Plus he just doesn't come across as an effective leader.

[John8204]

Shaq had the highest peak and was the best player? Better than Bron? Kobe? Duncan?

The guy that can't hit free throws? The guy who only ever won a ring playing with another ATG guard? Should we ignore that they both went onto win multiple times without him?

Shaq was truly dominant for stretch, you can't take that away from him, but part of that was a byproduct of him being the last big standing. That and the physicality he was allowed to impose. But even if we give him credit for being dominant, he had arguably the greatest "sidekick" in history. A guy that proved he was an alpha in the waiting.

Plus he just doesn't come across as an effective leader.

Also peak Shaq was also peak officials on the take era

[Carbine]

I'm likely one of the few who lived through all of these particular players peak years. If that means anything, I don't know. But it's something.

To me it's

1. 00 Shaq

He was at his physical best, his mental best and showed the most effort on defense this year. His "little things" impact was excellent during this year, to go along with his "obvious things" impact

2. 12 Lebron retained alllllmost the same athletic ability from his '09 season but was so much more refined. His outside shot wasn't what it would become, but his skill improvement and mental improvement, while being a menace on defense makes him earn this spot

3. 23 Jokic is the most complete offensive peak on this list. He had a historical run in the playoffs.

4. 03 Duncan was a machine. During this season I thought he was the best combination of offense, defense and rebounding on this list in the playoffs. I wouldn't argue with anyone putting him up at the top of this list.

5. '19 Kawhi

6. '16 Curry would be higher if he didn't severely underperform on the biggest stage and was the man, the unanimous MVP that couldn't close a 3-1 lead in the finals. This counts a lot on this list because none of the others above him had this type of thing happen.

7. '09 Kobe

8. '20 Giannis

9. '11 Dirk gets knocked down for a pretty basic (for him) regular season but his playoff run I felt like he had a true command of offensive basketball. He averaged 2 assists per game but felt like he was THE gravitational pull on significant amount of possessions creating open looks for his team vs playoff defenses.

10. '09 Wade is the only non champion on this list. That year, he was one of the ten best players I have seen in this time frame. I don't need a championship to validate that to my eyes.


HM to Garnett in '04

[k0kakw0rld]

2004 MVP KG was probably top peak. And 2008 Kobe. 2016 Curry as well. These were freak seasons.
Only fact here is 2004 KG.

2012-2013 BRON was the absolute best we have ever seen. Shooting 40% from 3, 56% from the field, MVP, FMVP. He finished second in DPOY voting (should have won it). GOAT SEASON IMO.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm likely one of the few who lived through all of these particular players peak years. If that means anything, I don't know. But it's something.

To me it's

1. 00 Shaq

He was at his physical best, his mental best and showed the most effort on defense this year. His "little things" impact was excellent during this year, to go along with his "obvious things" impact

2. 12 Lebron retained alllllmost the same athletic ability from his '09 season but was so much more refined. His outside shot wasn't what it would become, but his skill improvement and mental improvement, while being a menace on defense makes him earn this spot

3. 23 Jokic is the most complete offensive peak on this list. He had a historical run in the playoffs.

4. 03 Duncan was a machine. During this season I thought he was the best combination of offense, defense and rebounding on this list in the playoffs. I wouldn't argue with anyone putting him up at the top of this list.

5. '19 Kawhi

6. '16 Curry would be higher if he didn't severely underperform on the biggest stage and was the man, the unanimous MVP that couldn't close a 3-1 lead in the finals. This counts a lot on this list because none of the others above him had this type of thing happen.

7. '09 Kobe

8. '20 Giannis

9. '11 Dirk gets knocked down for a pretty basic (for him) regular season but his playoff run I felt like he had a true command of offensive basketball. He averaged 2 assists per game but felt like he was THE gravitational pull on significant amount of possessions creating open looks for his team vs playoff defenses.

10. '09 Wade is the only non champion on this list. That year, he was one of the ten best players I have seen in this time frame. I don't need a championship to validate that to my eyes.


HM to Garnett in '04


Better list than I expected, you sound actually unbiased here not bad.

[ArbitraryWater]

Only fact here is 2004 KG.

2012-2013 BRON was the absolute best we have ever seen. Shooting 40% from 3, 56% from the field, MVP, FMVP. He finished second in DPOY voting (should have won it). GOAT SEASON IMO.

Took it easy in the playoffs and weak-ish Finals sadly.

[Norcaliblunt]

Duncan is the underrated mofo.

LeBron being better than peak Duncan is ludicrous.

Shaq is the boy mofo who has a case over Duncan.

[Tavr]

I'm not even talking specific single year peaks, though you could to that route if you want. I'm talking just how great they were at their best. This was more difficult than I had anticipated, my list would go

LeBron
Shaq
Jokic
Curry
Giannis
Duncan
Kawhi
Wade
Kobe
Luka

In order:

2000 Shaq
2003 Duncan
2019 Kawhi (him and Wade are interchangeable imo)
2009 Wade (in 2010 he coasted a bit although still had a fantastic season - if you saw what he did in the playoffs to Boston, solo dolo, you could argue THAT was his peak)
2021 or 2022 Curry
2012 LeBron
2023 Jokic
2006 Kobe

Not sure we've seen peak Luka yet. I'd also put last year's SGA and/or 2004 KG over Giannis, who is incredibly flawed and overrated (especially in the playoffs). Another thing about this list...After Shaq and Duncan, I think you're genuinely splitting hairs. All of these guys were absolute demons at their peak.

[Carbine]

Giannis may be flawed in your mind but in reality it didn't stop him from winning a title as a 30ppg scorer on good efficiency, while being a playmaker and excellent rebounder/defender.

He capped it off with one of the best finals performances of all time.....

Agenda driven bullshit as usual around here.

[Mask the Embiid]

LeBron
Kobe
Curry
Harden
Durant
Kawhi
Shaq
Dirk
Giannis
Embiid
Duncan


i had to do 11

[Tavr]

Giannis may be flawed in your mind but in reality it didn't stop him from winning a title as a 30ppg scorer on good efficiency, while being a playmaker and excellent rebounder/defender.

He capped it off with one of the best finals performances of all time.....

Agenda driven bullshit as usual around here.


Cool, and he still isn't better than any of the players I mentioned. Need a tissue? lol

[Baller234]

Giannis is not even close to being in the discussion. Great player, not the BEST we've seen. :oldlol:

His game is sloppy as fukk, way too many holes. Dominates partially because the league lets him travel.

[Carbine]

Shaq had holes in his game too. It's about impact, that is literally all that matters.

We are talking PEAKS here. Not ten year careers.

Giannis for his championship season should unanimously be on this list by anyone without a biased against him - it was that good.

He checks all the boxes from scoring, playmaking, rebounding, defense, historic games in big moments, efficiency.

His game being "ugly" and unskilled means nadda.

[Baller234]

Shaq had holes in his game too. It's about impact, that is literally all that matters.

We are talking PEAKS here. Not ten year careers.

Giannis for his championship season should unanimously be on this list by anyone without a biased against him - it was that good.

He checks all the boxes from scoring, playmaking, rebounding, defense, historic games in big moments, efficiency.

His game being "ugly" and unskilled means nadda.

Right Shaq did have holes in his game, which is why I could never put him at the top of this list either. No player with an achilles heel of a certain magnitude could ever be considered the absolute best of the best.

And yet compared to Giannis, Shaq might as well be Hakeem. At least Shaq had a competent low post game that he could consistently rely on now and then. Giannis fumbles and gets caught with his pants down ALL the time.

And sorry there's no getting around the bullshit officiating. Giannis travels A LOT. He initiates contact and gets rewarded for it A LOT.

He also greatly benefits from defensive 3 seconds and being able to bulldoze his way through wide open lanes. Would NOT have been as dominant in an era where skill played more of a factor.

Great player, amazing athlete, NOT the best.

[Axe]

It's king kong, as usual.


There's a lot of bitter trolls on this site
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=827668&dateline=1624237688&type=thumb (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPZqPRPHIF2xVI5uiUFQ7DcZyo3SNqM MQAlw&usqp=CAU)

[Im Still Ballin]

Shaq has a consistent track record of spearheading elite offenses in the regular season and the playoffs. Giannis? Not so much, particularly in the postseason. He has a pretty box score but his team offensive performance lacks, and that may be a valid critique against his impact on that end.

Now, how much does their supporting cast and respective coaching & schemes factor into the equation?

[Im Still Ballin]

Shaq 1997-2011:

+7.2 on-court playoff opponent-adjusted ORtg (180 games)

Giannis 2015-2025:

-0.8 on-court playoff opponent-adjusted ORtg (84 games)

Antetokounmpo's best result for a deep run was +2.4 in 2019. -0.4 in the 2021 championship run, which was won with defense (-11.6!).

[3ba11]

People wouldn't exclude Lebron from this list. Even I wouldn't. 2018 Lebron has MDE status. But there's some who consider Kobe on Harden level and they're not trolling. Just ignorant.


Who was more dominant:

A) 1990 Jordan against the #7 SRS and 53-win veteran Barkley-led Sixers

B) Lebron against the #7 SRS and 53-win injured Celtics (no Kyrie) and led by 19-year olds (ages that have never won or done anything before


I never understood why Curry got no props for beating the injured Cavs in 15', yet Lebron got credit for beating the injured Celtics in 18', or Heat in 20'.

Love averaged 20/10 against both top 5 SRS opponents on that 18' run (Raptors & Warriors), so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick (never carried weak help over top teams).. Love was the best sidekick in the East and a rare all-star sidekick in that conference, so the only time Lebron carried a 1-star team to the Finals was when everyone was doing it (Iverson, Dwight, Kidd).

People simply get fooled by a ball-dominant 33 ppg with one long dribble foray after another - this might make 33 ppg look more dominant than 45/7/7, but it isn't

[Nowoco]

The lack of TMac in this thread is a crime.

[TeflonDonTrump]

None of you clowns have seen Tmac's peak in orlando

[ShawkFactory]

Tmac is my favorite player ever but who is he going to replace here? From a talent standpoint, yea he had as much as anyone.

There were just a lot of factors (of all of it out of his control) that led to us never seeing what he looked like on the biggest stage against the best of the best. It's unfortunate but given that, how can you put him ahead of someone like Wade or Kawhi or whoever else you'd kick off that have proved themselves?

[Wally450]

I'd personally put KD over Luka, as well as putting KG somewhere in there. 2004 and the years around it were astonishing.

[ArbitraryWater]

Better list than I expected, you sound actually unbiased here not bad.

Sorry I confused you with Norcaliblunt lol.

[dankok8]

Top 10 ain't easy but I might go something like this.

1. 2000 Shaq
2. 2009 Lebron
3. 2003 Duncan
4. 2017 Curry
5. 2008 Kobe
6. 2023 Jokic
7. 2004 Garnett
8. 2021 Giannis
9. 2009 Wade
10. 2014 Durant

HM: 2006 Dirk, 2023 Embiid

[tpols]

Top 10 ain't easy but I might go something like this.

1. 2000 Shaq
2. 2009 Lebron
3. 2003 Duncan
4. 2017 Curry
5. 2008 Kobe
6. 2023 Jokic
7. 2004 Garnett
8. 2021 Giannis
9. 2009 Wade
10. 2014 Durant

HM: 2006 Dirk, 2023 Embiid


Where's 2019 Kawhi?

[Hey Yo]

Who was more dominant:

A) 1990 Jordan against the #7 SRS and 53-win veteran Barkley-led Sixers

B) Lebron against the #7 SRS and 53-win injured Celtics (no Kyrie) and led by 19-year olds (ages that have never won or done anything before


I never understood why Curry got no props for beating the injured Cavs in 15', yet Lebron got credit for beating the injured Celtics in 18', or Heat in 20'.

Love averaged 20/10 against both top 5 SRS opponents on that 18' run (Raptors & Warriors), so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick (never carried weak help over top teams).. Love was the best sidekick in the East and a rare all-star sidekick in that conference, so the only time Lebron carried a 1-star team to the Finals was when everyone was doing it (Iverson, Dwight, Kidd).

People simply get fooled by a ball-dominant 33 ppg with one long dribble foray after another - this might make 33 ppg look more dominant than 45/7/7, but it isn't

What had Love and Kyrie done before the 2015 and 2016 postseasons? What had Bosh done before having LeBron as a teammate?

[dankok8]

Where's 2019 Kawhi?

He's also an HM. Just missing out on the list because his best regular seasons never coincided with his best postseasons.