biden (or kamala) would never have met with putin

[diamenz]

despite the fact that i'm skeptical about how much trump understands russia in general, much less his understanding of putin's real reasons for invading ukraine in the first place and what his demands are to bring this war to a crawl; at least this meeting is progress. i just hope trump ultimately figures out that ukraine is and has long been a lost cause and that putin is going to end this war on his terms whether it be through force or a peace agreement that gives him all that he wants.

joe biden never would have met with putin in a diplomatic fashion and also by the way never even spoke to him once during his entire term. so i have no doubt in my mind that the biden military aid & financial pipeline would have continued until every last elderly man and young child soldier were killed and zelensky's head was on a stick. kamala, figuratively speaking anyway, has no balls and probably would have been the most controlled, puppet of a president in america's history so therefore wouldn't even have been allowed to enter into diplomatic talks. :lol

so yeah, obviously trump's strategy on this war isn't ideal but it's better than what we would have had otherwise.

[highwhey]

trump has been getting played since he entered office. wasn't he on a phone call with putin when putin executed a big ass strike on ukraine?

anyways, the real power dynamic relationship that matters is the israel one. russia will do whatever the fck it wants until it gets what it wants (less sanctions), which trump will do bc he's a terrible negotiator and will claim it's a WIN. but back to israel, how's the "best ally" thing going for trump? surely with this GOAT negotiation tactics the US has stopped giving away money and selling world class fighter jets to Israel right? RIGHT? :roll:

[Jasper]

they would of hired an assassin

[Overdrive]

despite the fact that i'm skeptical about how much trump understands russia in general, much less his understanding of putin's real reasons for invading ukraine in the first place and what his demands are to bring this war to a crawl; at least this meeting is progress. i just hope trump ultimately figures out that ukraine is and has long been a lost cause and that putin is going to end this war on his terms whether it be through force or a peace agreement that gives him all that he wants.

joe biden never would have met with putin in a diplomatic fashion and also by the way never even spoke to him once during his entire term. so i have no doubt in my mind that the biden military aid & financial pipeline would have continued until every last elderly man and young child soldier were killed and zelensky's head was on a stick. kamala, figuratively speaking anyway, has no balls and probably would have been the most controlled, puppet of a president in america's history so therefore wouldn't even have been allowed to enter into diplomatic talks. :lol

so yeah, obviously trump's strategy on this war isn't ideal but it's better than what we would have had otherwise.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Russia%E2%80%93United_States_Summit

https://ua.usembassy.gov/readout-of-president-bidens-call-with-president-vladimir-putin-of-russia/

[diamenz]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Russia%E2%80%93United_States_Summit

https://ua.usembassy.gov/readout-of-president-bidens-call-with-president-vladimir-putin-of-russia/

well you got me there. what i actually meant to say was that there was no interaction initiated on our end during the war. but keep saying you despise america Democrats and then turn around and go out of your way to defend them. :lol. no wonder no one believes you in that regard.

[Hey Yo]

well you got me there. what i actually meant to say was that there was no interaction initiated on our end during the war. but keep saying you despise america Democrats and then turn around and go out of your way to defend them. :lol. no wonder no one believes you in that regard.

He's too dumb to realize you were obviously referring to "during the war."

[warriorfan]

Joe Biden wouldn’t even give him a call or pick up the phone.

TDS has taken control of these people’s hearts and minds. May god help them.

[diamenz]

i don't think Overdrive can come to grips with the fact that it's an american republican president that wants peace and european social democrats that want more war.

[highwhey]

i don't think Overdrive can come to grips with the fact that it's a american republican president that wants peace and european social democrats that want more war.

peace were? he's doing everything in his power to make the USA a police state and doing nothing to slow israel's massacre of Palestinians.

what peace? where?

[diamenz]

peace were? he's doing everything in his power to make the USA a police state and doing nothing to slow israel's massacre of Palestinians.

what peace? where?

why you conflating different issues bro?

[highwhey]

why you conflating different issues bro?

is it conflating? you are trying to give praise under false pretenses. there is nothing to applaud here.

[diamenz]

is it conflating? you are trying to give praise under false pretenses. there is nothing to applaud here.

i think i outlined my perspective well enough in my op. it isn't just blind, outright praise that i'm dishing out to trump here. things aren't as black & white as you seem to be implying.

you'd rather trump had done nothing then? would you rather he refused to meet with putin? we're in a better place with him having done so. what did you take away from the summit?

[diamenz]

is it conflating? you are trying to give praise under false pretenses. there is nothing to applaud here.

i think i outlined my perspective well enough in my op. it isn't just blind, outright praise that i'm dishing out to trump here. things aren't as black & white as you seem to be implying.

you'd rather trump had done nothing then? would you rather he refused to meet with putin? we're in a better place with him having done so. what did you take away from the summit?

[Overdrive]

i don't think Overdrive can come to grips with the fact that it's an american republican president that wants peace and european social democrats that want more war.

Appeasement won't work with warmongers. I don't care who tries to bring peace to Ukraine, I really hope it works out. The problem is it can't be under Putin's conditions. That was Merkel's mistake back in 2014 and it should not repeated. Number 1 condition for a peace treaty would have to be Ukraine joining Nato so Putin can't attack anymore, but since he used the Ukraine wanting to join as pretext for this war it won't happen as of now.

Security garantees alone by him mean nothing. The budapest memorandum already gave those garantees by the US, UK and Russia. Treaties and contracts mean nothing for this dude. Trump could make a deal tomorrow and it would be useless the day after.

[Overdrive]

well you got me there. what i actually meant to say was that there was no interaction initiated on our end during the war. but keep saying you despise america Democrats and then turn around and go out of your way to defend them. :lol. no wonder no one believes you in that regard.

I'm not defending them. There's no word of defense or justification, just two links with information. Just don't post wrong information.

[diamenz]

The problem is it can't be under Putin's conditions. Number 1 condition for a peace treaty would have to be Ukraine joining Nato so Putin can't attack anymore, but since he used the Ukraine wanting to join as pretext for this war it won't happen as of now.

Security garantees alone by him mean nothing. The budapest memorandum already gave those garantees by the US, UK and Russia. Treaties and contracts mean nothing for this dude. Trump could make a deal tomorrow and it would be useless the day after.

like i said, no matter how you slice it, it will be under putin's conditions in the end regardless. in his mind, it's either drag the war out on the battlefield until the end or reach a peace treaty addressing russia's security concerns - a neutral ukraine, pulling any american personnel/troops & cutting funding/equipment and ensuring no further nato enlargement. putin's made clear that these objectives are non-negotiable. a victory on the russian side is inevitable. stop the killing now and spare what's left of ukraine or it will only get worse for them. their problem is manpower - the us and europe can push everything they have their way but it won't amount to anything without it. it's over.

[Overdrive]

like i said, no matter how you slice it, it will be under putin's conditions in the end regardless. in his mind, it's either drag the war out on the battlefield until the end or reach a peace treaty addressing russia's security concerns - a neutral ukraine, pulling any american personnel/troops & cutting funding/equipment and ensuring no further nato enlargement. putin's made clear that these objectives are non-negotiable. a victory on the russian side is inevitable. stop the killing now and spare what's left of ukraine or it will only get worse for them. their problem is manpower - the us and europe can push everything they have their way but it won't amount to anything without it. it's over.

Russia just made it clear that they won't accept peace under the US security guarantee proposals. So there's no way out for Ukraine. If they unconditionally accept "Putin's" peace they'll be attacked again as soon as Russia thinks they're strong enough again. If they keep fighting, they might as well lose in the end. There's no scenario that means lasting peace unless it's some coup within Russia itself.

[bladefd]

Russia just made it clear that they won't accept peace under the US security guarantee proposals. So there's no way out for Ukraine. If they unconditionally accept "Putin's" peace they'll be attacked again as soon as Russia thinks they're strong enough again. If they keep fighting, they might as well lose in the end. There's no scenario that means lasting peace unless it's some coup within Russia itself.

If that's the situation, then I say keep fighting until Russia agrees to security guarantee proposals. Ukraine still holds what? 80% of its original borders? Russia has failed so far, and proven to everyone they are no world power without using their nukes. Keep fighting but keep trying to negotiate to see if Russia agrees to better terms.

What do these 'better' terms mean? I don't mind Ukraine being a buffer nation that can never join NATO, but Russia can't dictate who Ukraine does business with. Ukraine should let Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea provinces go, but with guaranteed security in place.