The best players ever must be capable of defeating max defensive attention

[3ba11]

This means carrying the scoring load (aka "all eyes on me") at the highest level (championship level).

Carrying the "star" category of scoring allows GM's to get defensive help and the right role players, aka elite roster construction, which allows winning with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player (organic)..

Accordingly, players that can't carry the scoring load prevent elite roster construction, while a ball-dominant skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter further hampers roster construction and development.

Carry on

[sdot_thadon]

This means carrying the scoring load (aka "all eyes on me") at the highest level (championship level).

Carrying the "star" category of scoring allows GM's to get defensive help and the right role players, aka elite roster construction, which allows winning with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player (organic)..

Accordingly, players that can't carry the scoring load prevent elite roster construction, while a ball-dominant skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter further hampers roster construction and development.

Carry on

Another retard logic chat gpt level thread. Carry on.

[3ba11]

Another retard logic chat gpt level thread. Carry on.


carrying the "star" category of scoring requires less stars, so GM's can get defensive help and the right role players, aka elite roster construction

Unfortunately, Lebron can't carry the star category of scoring and therefore needs more stars.

Lebron fans complained about roster construction for 2 decades and now we know why - he can't carry the scoring load (too ball-dominant at high scoring levels to beat top teams)

[sdot_thadon]

carrying the "star" category of scoring requires less stars, so GM's can get defensive help and the right role players, aka elite roster construction

Unfortunately, Lebron can't carry the star category of scoring and therefore needs more stars.

Lebron fans complained about roster construction for 2 decades and now we know why - he can't carry the scoring load (too ball-dominant at high scoring levels to beat top teams)

When teams gotta play box and 1 on you or send several guys at you there's no such thing as fuller defensive attention than that. You sound idiotic man.

[ShawkFactory]

Carry on

Okay, thank you.

[3ba11]

.
Per ESPN, Lebron was doubled on 5% of TOUCHES for Games 1-3:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif




And on 18 possessions that a shot was taken total for the series



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-17-2025/IrANmW.gif

https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team



Boris Diaw left Lebron open when he had the ball and when he didn't:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-17-2025/3Tb0TR.gif

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6




When teams gotta play box and 1 on you or send several guys at you there's no such thing as fuller defensive attention than that. You sound idiotic man.


Lebron doesn't get doubled (above) and teams are usually exploiting his weaknesses with their schemes (also shown above).

Since rim attackers can be met at the rim with multiple defenders, the only players that require doubles are hot jumpshooters like MJ, Curry or Kobe - they can turn a tie ballgame into a 10 point deficit very quickly, so they require doubles, which destroys a team's defensive rebounding, according to Van Gundy (here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Xz4K42gXM&t=03m12s)).




When teams gotta play box and 1 on you or send several guys at you there's no such thing as fuller defensive attention than that. You sound idiotic man.


Ultimately, Kobe's scoring was partially-assisted, which elevates teammate role, while Lebron's scoring is unassisted, so teammates are reduced to spot-up roles

Furthermore, Lebron's jumpshot doesn't get hot, so he never gets doubled to free up teammates - so his scoring is unassisted and undoubled, which explains why his teammates play like shit and get blamed for losses..

[3ba11]

Okay, thank you.


So you read all the way to the very end... :confusedshrug:

[3ba11]

When teams gotta play box and 1 on you or send several guys at you there's no such thing as fuller defensive attention than that. You sound idiotic man.


Who would've thought that this kind of ball-domination at high scoring levels couldn't beat top teams like the 15' Warriors or the 09' Magic



https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/CU5j5S.gif




Since Lebron is too ball-dominant to effectively carry the scoring load against top teams, he can't carry weak help over top teams (can't beat top 5 SRS teams with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick) and can't defeat max defensive attention (can't carry scoring load on championship level)... Accordingly, he needs all-time scoring help (the most ever).

[ShawkFactory]

Okay, thank you.


So you read all the way to the very end...

I read the very end, yes. A bonus of you breaking things up in paragraphs :lol

I do appreciate your desperation though :applause:

[k0kakw0rld]

This means carrying the scoring load (aka "all eyes on me") at the highest level (championship level).

Carrying the "star" category of scoring allows GM's to get defensive help and the right role players, aka elite roster construction, which allows winning with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player (organic)..

Accordingly, players that can't carry the scoring load prevent elite roster construction, while a ball-dominant skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter further hampers roster construction and development.

Carry on
I wonder what would your life look like without having to talk about LeBron James all the time.

[sdot_thadon]

.
Per ESPN, Lebron was doubled on 5% of TOUCHES for Games 1-3:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif




And on 18 possessions that a shot was taken total for the series



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-17-2025/IrANmW.gif

https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team



Boris Diaw left Lebron open when he had the ball and when he didn't:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-17-2025/3Tb0TR.gif

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6






Lebron doesn't get doubled (above) and teams are usually exploiting his weaknesses with their schemes (also shown above).

Since rim attackers can be met at the rim with multiple defenders, the only players that require doubles are hot jumpshooters like MJ, Curry or Kobe - they can turn a tie ballgame into a 10 point deficit very quickly, so they require doubles, which destroys a team's defensive rebounding, according to Van Gundy (here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Xz4K42gXM&t=03m12s)).






Ultimately, Kobe's scoring was partially-assisted, which elevates teammate role, while Lebron's scoring is unassisted, so teammates are reduced to spot-up roles

Furthermore, Lebron's jumpshot doesn't get hot, so he never gets doubled to free up teammates - so his scoring is unassisted and undoubled, which explains why his teammates play like shit and get blamed for losses..
Its a shame you talk about LeBron this much and are still so far and away clueless about his game. No wonder you have the stance you do it stems from supreme ignorance. Your own graphic says they doubled him 5% of touches for games 1-3 , well no shit Sherlock he was averaging over 40 for games 1-3. Your post also states he was doubled on 18 possessions that a shot was taken for the series. Another no shit moment. It doesn't count the double teams he passed out of. And on a side note nobody really dares double Lebron full time because they fear his playmaking out of those doubles. They have always put the most solid defender they have and zoned with help. (A tactic nearly unavailable to MJ's opponents) Its the best you can do with him. However in that series they didn't really have to fear the playmaking because option 2 and 3 were in street clothes. The guys who were there shot terribly for the most part. How can you put so much energy into this yet be so bad at it?


Who would've thought that this kind of ball-domination at high scoring levels couldn't beat top teams like the 15' Warriors or the 09' Magic



https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/CU5j5S.gif




Since Lebron is too ball-dominant to effectively carry the scoring load against top teams, he can't carry weak help over top teams (can't beat top 5 SRS teams with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick) and can't defeat max defensive attention (can't carry scoring load on championship level)... Accordingly, he needs all-time scoring help (the most ever). isnt that gif from the game he had 44?


Furthermore, Lebron's jumpshot doesn't get hot
::oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron fvcking sucks

[3ba11]

Its a shame you talk about LeBron this much and are still so far and away clueless about his game. No wonder you have the stance you do it stems from supreme ignorance. Your own graphic says they doubled him 5% of touches for games 1-3 , well no shit Sherlock he was averaging over 40 for games 1-3.





And yet they didn't double him and let him go off

You're making my point






. However in that series they didn't really have to fear the playmaking because option 2 and 3 were in street clothes.





Exactly, they didn't have to worry about his playmaking, yet he STILL didn't get doubled.. You just made my point.

It shows how coaches like opponents that have high volumes of unassisted buckets (ball-domination), which is why they don't double Lebron.. And he doesn't have a hot jumper like Curry or MJ, and infact barely takes jumpers






Your post also states he was doubled on 18 possessions that a shot was taken for the series. Another no shit moment. It doesn't count the double teams he passed out of.





It does if his teammates shoot it

The Cavs were 2-18 on possessions that Lebron was doubled, so that includes his teammates shooting as well as Lebron's shots.






And on a side note nobody really dares double Lebron full time because they fear his playmaking out of those doubles





It's a gamble and disadvantage for defenses to double-team ANYONE since it creates a 4-on-3 off-the-ball... Any simple pass out of the double generates a 4-on-3 advantage for the offense.

Lebron stated this himself here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473175-quot-Double-teams-create-a-4-on-3-off-the-ball-quot-Lebron-James#google_vignette)






isnt that gif from the game he had 44?





lebron had MANY ugly misses and ugly moves because he has no fundamentals/footwork, polish/mastery of moves, or touch.

Otoh, MJ and Kobe are the opposite of this






::oldlol:


There's levels to this and the goat jumpers of Curry (threes) and MJ (twos) got hot every game - the majority of their shot attempts were jumpers and their lethal J's required constant double-teams...

Otoh, Lebron's drive-heavy game can be met at the rim with multiple defenders and he otherwise doesn't take enough jumpers to get hot.

the thing about jumpers is that they're QUICK and require better team defense to contain via effective double-teams and recovery - this shifting of defenses wears them down, so they have less capacity for offense...

Otoh, Lebron's ball-domination lets defenses rest, so they don't dare double.. It's not like his jumper is gonna get hot

[Ne 1]

This means carrying the scoring load (aka "all eyes on me") at the highest level (championship level).

Carrying the "star" category of scoring allows GM's to get defensive help and the right role players, aka elite roster construction, which allows winning with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player (organic)..

Accordingly, players that can't carry the scoring load prevent elite roster construction, while a ball-dominant skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter further hampers roster construction and development.

Carry on

I disagree. Who are some of the players you feel fit this criteria though? Jus outta curiosity

[Ne 1]

Also, defining a “star” simply based on scoring is a flawed concept... especially in a day and age where a player having a scoring skill set or the label being -a bucket- is common place. I would say Magic and Bird are mount Rushmore players who instinctively didn’t look to score first, more reading the play and being the most efficient in making the right decision...today's current example is Jokic

[3ba11]

Also, defining a “star” simply based on scoring is a flawed concept... especially in a day and age where a player having a scoring skill set or the label being -a bucket- is common place. I would say Magic and Bird are mount Rushmore players who instinctively didn’t look to score first, more reading the play and being the most efficient in making the right decision...today's current example is Jokic


Scoring is the category most closely correlated with stars

Carrying the star category requires less stars so the GM can fill out the roster with cheap defenders

And Jordan already proved that he was better than the goat "scorer-passer-rebounders" by surpassing Bird, Magic, and Lebron.. It turns out that Jordan is a much better offensive rebounder than Lebron, while his assist averages were slightly lower due to far greater scoring burden and the need for great brand of ball/winning, aka no ball-domination.. Otherwise, Jordan made all the fancy passes and tricks that Magic or anyone else did - but his goat passing was simply overlooked due to his goat scoring and burden.

Btw, I define "defeating max defensive attention" as successfully carrying the scoring load at the highest level, aka championship level - this could be defined as 10 ppg more than all teammates in the Finals - several guys have done it in one-off fashion, but only MJ, Kobe and Curry did it multiple times (expert jumpshooters)

[sdot_thadon]

Scoring is the category most closely correlated with stars

Carrying the star category requires less stars so the GM can fill out the roster with cheap defenders

And Jordan already proved that he was better than the goat "scorer-passer-rebounders" by surpassing Bird, Magic, and Lebron.. It turns out that Jordan is a much better offensive rebounder than Lebron, while his assist averages were slightly lower due to far greater scoring burden and the need for great brand of ball/winning, aka no ball-domination.. Otherwise, Jordan made all the fancy passes and tricks that Magic or anyone else did - but his goat passing was simply overlooked due to his goat scoring and burden.

Btw, I define "defeating max defensive attention" as successfully carrying the scoring load at the highest level, aka championship level - this could be defined as 10 ppg more than all teammates in the Finals - several guys have done it in one-off fashion, but only MJ, Kobe and Curry did it multiple times (expert jumpshooters)
You're way too focused on things only being able to happen one way. Scoring is NOT the only way to carry a team. Guys like Magic carried their teams with playmaking moreso than scoring. Russell carried his team with defense. Some guys carry their teams in multiple categories. Olajuwon carried his team as the go to presence while also being the toll booth on defense. Lebron has carried teams with both playmaking and scoring. Theres more than one way to skin a cat. You seem to be infatuated with one way. Kinda weird how many qualifiers you have to apply to get your point across. Youre kinda like the one chick that only wants missionary of basketball discussion.


It turns out that Jordan is a much better offensive rebounder than Lebron, while his assist averages were slightly lower due to far greater scoring burden
This quote highlights you narrow sighted mentality. Lebron averages higher assists due to a greater scoring burden....but it isnt somehow in the realm of possibility that Mj averages more points due to a greater playmaking burden for Lebron? Make it make sense for once.

[3ba11]

You're way too focused on things only being able to happen one way. Scoring is NOT the only way to carry a team. Guys like Magic carried their teams with playmaking moreso than scoring. Russell carried his team with defense. Some guys carry their teams in multiple categories. Olajuwon carried his team as the go to presence while also being the toll booth on defense. Lebron has carried teams with both playmaking and scoring. Theres more than one way to skin a cat. You seem to be infatuated with one way. Kinda weird how many qualifiers you have to apply to get your point across. Youre kinda like the one chick that only wants missionary of basketball discussion.


This quote highlights you narrow sighted mentality. Lebron averages higher assists due to a greater scoring burden....but it isnt somehow in the realm of possibility that Mj averages more points due to a greater playmaking burden for Lebron? Make it make sense for once.


Lebron has lower playmaking burden because he had more playmaking help:

Career APG

Westbrook.... 8.0
Rondo........... 7.9
Kyrie.............. 5.6
Wade ............ 5.3
Pippen........... 5.2


And you say that Lebron has carried his team by scoring but he never successfully carried the scoring load on the championship level, and he never carried weak help over top teams (never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick)

Lebron needed teammates that could match or lead him in scoring for entire playoff runs, such as 11' Wade, 16' Kyrie or 20' AD - these guys were equal or greater producers than Lebron on those runs and franchise playersin their own right - this doesn't compare to guys that carried the scoring load and therefore won with lower producers like Klay, Pippen and Manu (non-franchise players).

And again, guys like Hakeem only have 1 run where he carried the load in the Finals, while MJ has 6... So there's levels to carrying the offense and MJ was the pinnacle.. He was also his team's best defender if we're going by media accolade like DPOY voting or who was the primary defender on Magic/Drexler/Miller/Isiah

[sdot_thadon]

Lebron has lower playmaking burden because he had more playmaking help:

Career APG

Westbrook.... 8.0
Rondo........... 7.9
Kyrie.............. 5.6
Wade ............ 5.3
Pippen........... 5.2


And you say that Lebron has carried his team by scoring but he never successfully carried the scoring load on the championship level, and he never carried weak help over top teams (never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick)

Lebron needed teammates that could match or lead him in scoring for entire playoff runs, such as 11' Wade, 16' Kyrie or 20' AD - these guys were equal or greater producers than Lebron on those runs and franchise playersin their own right - this doesn't compare to guys that carried the scoring load and therefore won with lower producers like Klay, Pippen and Manu (non-franchise players).

And again, guys like Hakeem only have 1 run where he carried the load in the Finals, while MJ has 6... So there's levels to carrying the offense and MJ was the pinnacle.. He was also his team's best defender if we're going by media accolade like DPOY voting or who was the primary defender on Magic/Drexler/Miller/Isiah

How'd he have more playmaking help but no playmaking help on his teams at the same time bruh? Your arguments run in circles and contradict the hell out of each other. How is anyone supposed to take your stance seriously when you argue against your own points in the very next thread. You need to focus on quality over quantity because this shit sounds stupider and stupider by the thread.

[Tavr]

https://i.postimg.cc/cJZ0r3k1/p1wayk0i95g21.jpg

How's this for max defensive attention?

[3ba11]

How'd he have more playmaking help but no playmaking help on his teams at the same time bruh? Your arguments run in circles and contradict the hell out of each other. How is anyone supposed to take your stance seriously when you argue against your own points in the very next thread. You need to focus on quality over quantity because this shit sounds stupider and stupider by the thread.


No one said that.. You simply made something up because you were wrong about Lebron not having playmaking help - he had more than MJ by virtue of all his teammates averaging more APG than pippen (Wade, Kyrie, Westbrook, Rondo, Luka, and more).

[3ba11]

https://i.postimg.cc/cJZ0r3k1/p1wayk0i95g21.jpg

How's this for max defensive attention?


I think Kobe averaged 25+ in those Finals, so Shaq didn't fulfill the criteria of 10 ppg more than all teammates.

Kobe's high PPG attracted a lot of defensive attention, which allowed Shaq to avoid facing MAX defensive attention (he didn't have to carry the scoring load)... The only time that Shaq defeated max defensive attention (carried scoring load on championship level) was the 2000 Finals.. This was a one-off just like 94' Hakeem, so the only guys that did it multiple times are Kobe (2) and MJ (6).

Btw, Kobe led the Lakers in PPG for the 01' and 02' Western Playoffs - he was actually the 1st option, but the East was so weak that it made sense to go Shaq-ball in the Finals.

[sdot_thadon]

No one said that.. You simply made something up because you were wrong about Lebron not having playmaking help - he had more than MJ by virtue of all his teammates averaging more APG than pippen (Wade, Kyrie, Westbrook, Rondo, Luka, and more).

One thing no one ever has to do is make things up about a mfer with a million posts about the same shit. You a weird mfer that talk too much. Your points end up rear ending each other. The end.

[3ba11]

One thing no one ever has to do is make things up about a mfer with a million posts about the same shit. You a weird mfer that talk too much. Your points end up rear ending each other. The end.


You served your purpose already and provided your input - the OP stands

[sdot_thadon]

You served your purpose already and provided your input - the OP stands

Nah ive already shut down your premise. Max defensive attention is when the whole team gotta help with the gameplay on you, not getting to go one on one with a mid defender and get help sometimes. (Illegal defense era vs. Zone era) cant guard Mj the way you can guard Lebron in the finals with options that just werent available due to era. Op died on the same hill it was born on.

[3ba11]

.
.
Per ESPN, Lebron was doubled on 5% of TOUCHES for Games 1-3:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif




And on 18 possessions that a shot was taken total for the series



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-17-2025/IrANmW.gif

https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team



Boris Diaw left Lebron open when he had the ball and when he didn't:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-17-2025/3Tb0TR.gif

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6




The Warriors doubled him on 5% of TOUCHES, which is absurd and it's the reason that Lebron enjoyed the most secluded iso's ever in the 15' Finals - Lebron was allowed to hold the ball for a record 12 minutes time of possession.. Again, that's absurd and it shows that teams know his jumper rarely gets hot, so they let him dribble and get to rest on defense.. Teams meet rim attackers like Lebron at the rim with multiple defenders and only need to double elite jumpshooters/scorers that get hot all the time

[3ba11]

Max defensive attention is when the whole team gotta help with the gameplay on you, not getting to go one on one





This type of secluded iso is what Lebron faced for the entire 15' Finals:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/CU5j5S.gif



Teams let Lebron go 1-on-1 and don't double-team him (previous post).

And there's no mid-defenders because of defensive 3 seconds - the ball-handler simply waits 2 seconds until the paint defender must vacate the paint.. This is common knowledge among players, media and anyone in the basketball industry, including most fans.. I can easily post 10 gifs of ball-handlers waiting a couple seconds for the paint to clear... In addition to the league mandating an open paint, the spacing/three-point shooters pull defenders to the perimeter, thereby parting the paint like the Red Sea.. This is true for all drives from the top of the key - they face an open paint due to the Red Sea effect of spacing/threes.. And defensive 3 rids any would-be defenders after 2 seconds anyway.. (it's a joke, and the hands-off, open paint format amounts to a beginner format)

In contrast to today's defensive 3 and spacing, previous eras lacked these things, so the paint was packed at all times...Instead of help defenders coming from the 3-point line to help in the paint, the help defenders were already in the paint because that's where their man was... There were always bigs posting up and clogging the lane - this is AVOIDED in today's game because it cripples perimeter players.. Yet that was the standard in previous eras.. Instead of help defenders coming from the 3-point line to help in the paint, the help defenders were already in the paint and waiting.. A cursory glance at footage from the 80's or 90's shows the packed paints and bevies of mid-defenders due to the lack of spacing/threes and lack of defensive 3 (league mandated open paint).






Max defensive attention is when the whole team gotta help with the gameplay on you, not getting to go one on one





In addition to Lebron not getting doubled and facing 1-defender strong sides (today's spacing), he had equal-scoring teammates to attract equal defensive attention, so he never defeated MAX defensive attention.

Again, excessive ball-domination can't beat top teams, so Lebron can't carry the scoring load against top teams and therefore needs all-time scoring help.. His inability to carry the "star" category of scoring requires more stars and prevents GM's from getting the right defenders/others, aka elite roster construction.. By preventing elite roster construction, Lebron can't win with normal rosters of 1 franchise player (organically).

Hope this helps

[Overdrive]

I think Kobe averaged 25+ in those Finals, so Shaq didn't fulfill the criteria of 10 ppg more than all teammates.

Kobe's high PPG attracted a lot of defensive attention, which allowed Shaq to avoid facing MAX defensive attention (he didn't have to carry the scoring load)... The only time that Shaq defeated max defensive attention (carried scoring load on championship level) was the 2000 Finals.. This was a one-off just like 94' Hakeem, so the only guys that did it multiple times are Kobe (2) and MJ (6).

Btw, Kobe led the Lakers in PPG for the 01' and 02' Western Playoffs - he was actually the 1st option, but the East was so weak that it made sense to go Shaq-ball in the Finals.

Holy shit. Shaq was double to triple teamed in that finals ans scored 9,5 ppg more than Kobe. You're just a deluded Kobestan trying to throw dirt at Lebron and Jordan.

[3ba11]

Holy shit. Shaq was double to triple teamed in that finals ans scored 9,5 ppg more than Kobe. You're just a deluded Kobestan trying to throw dirt at Lebron and Jordan.


Shaq averaged 8.4 more than Kobe, so he was close to carrying the load but Kobe had entered his prime and actually led the Lakers in scoring for the 01' and 02' Western Playoffs.. Due to Kobe's ascension to MJ comparisons, Shaq simply never had to carry the scoring load after the 00' Finals

[Overdrive]

Shaq averaged 8.4 more than Kobe, so he was close to carrying the load but Kobe had entered his prime and actually led the Lakers in scoring for the 01' and 02' Western Playoffs.. Due to Kobe's ascension to MJ comparisons, Shaq simply never had to carry the scoring load after the 00' Finals

Kobe profited off of the attention given to Shaq. How Kobe played when Shaq wasn't atleast doubled was seen in the '04 finals.

36,3-26,8 isn't 8,4 either.

[3ba11]

Kobe profited off of the attention given to Shaq. How Kobe played when Shaq wasn't atleast doubled was seen in the '04 finals.

36,3-26,8 isn't 8,4 either.


The OP doesn't specify it, but "defeating max defensive attention" means carrying the scoring load for the playoffs and Finals of a title run - this has always been my criteria every time that I've brought it up... So Shaq didn't do this in 01' and 02', since Kobe led in scoring for the 01' and 02' Western Playoffs.. Kobe was the 1st option, but they just went Shaq-ball in the Finals since it was a foregone conclusion anyway - they didn't need max strategy to beat the East

But I give Shaq credit for 2000, since he led the playoffs and Finals, just like 94' Hakeem and a couple other 1-offs... Only Kobe and MJ did it multiple times (carried scoring load, aka 10 ppg more for playoffs and Finals)

[Overdrive]

The OP doesn't specify it, but "defeating max defensive attention" means carrying the scoring load for the playoffs and Finals of a title run - this has always been my criteria every time that I've brought it up... So Shaq didn't do this in 01' and 02', since Kobe led in scoring for the 01' and 02' Western Playoffs.. Kobe was the 1st option, but they just went Shaq-ball in the Finals since it was a foregone conclusion anyway - they didn't need max strategy to beat the East

But I give Shaq credit for 2000, since he led the playoffs and Finals, just like 94' Hakeem and a couple other 1-offs... Only Kobe and MJ did it multiple times (carried scoring load, aka 10 ppg more for playoffs and Finals)

Whatever. You're wrong as usual , but no need to argue with you.