Penny: "94' Bulls were biggest letdown game of yr - out ALL NITE b4 gameday b/c no MJ

[3ba11]

.
Halfway through this clip, Penny states that the 94' Bulls were the biggest letdown game of the year and teams stayed out all night before playing them because "no MJ":



https://m.youtube.com/shorts/2EY7yjROKC4


And of course the hungover Magic were blown away by the desperate Bulls

So it's all exactly like I've been saying... The "real" Bulls without MJ were barely .500 in 95' before MJ returned..

Pippen was never a "franchise player" that could build a team from scratch - he was simply handed the most well-oiled machine ever and fully-developed dynasty, which he cratered to .500 in less than 18 months)

[RRR3]

You are in your 70s whining nonstop.

[bullettooth]

Pippen was never a "franchise player" that could build a team from scratch - he was simply handed the most well-oiled machine ever and fully-developed dynasty, which he cratered to .500 in less than 18 months) [/b]

Looking back, he did have a shot proving himself in the 2000 playoffs against the Lakers.... but that game 7 was almost as rigged as the one 2 years later against Sacramento....

...that said, I don't know why I still follow this league given how illegitimate it is.

[SouBeachTalents]

Looking back, he did have a shot proving himself in the 2000 playoffs against the Lakers.... but that game 7 was almost as rigged as the one 2 years later against Sacramento....

...that said, I don't know why I still follow this league given how illegitimate it is.
Game 6 in '98 as well, the 2 terrible calls that went against Utah resulting in a 5 point swing in a game that was decided by 1.

[3ba11]

Looking back, he did have a shot proving himself in the 2000 playoffs against the Lakers.... but that game 7 was almost as rigged as the one 2 years later against Sacramento....

...that said, I don't know why I still follow this league given how illegitimate it is.


Pippen was horrific in the 99-03' Playoffs (11 ppg), and the 88-90' Playoffs, and he let Dominique and X-Man destroy him in the 93' and 92' Playoffs, respectively.. He also had the worst shooting splits EVER in the 93, 96, and 98 playoffs (let me know if you need the source), and 17 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, so the only viable playoff run of Pippen's career was 1991..

He also shot below league-average true shooting for every year of his playoff career except 89' and 01-03' (no burden) and 91' (his only viable run)... So Pippen was a historic bricklayer/lane-clogger that couldn't reach 15 ppg outside the system he grew up in.. He was a Shawn Marion, Larry Nance or Igoudala-level player, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade

[Real Men Wear Green]

I do believe that the Magic eliminated Jordan and the Bulls in '95.

[RRR3]

I do believe that the Magic eliminated Jordan and the Bulls in '95.
At OP’s age the mind often starts to go.

[sdot_thadon]

I do believe that the Magic eliminated Jordan and the Bulls in '95.

Thats probably because Mj was hung over.....or was it the flu that time?:oldlol: he could've beat them but he didn't want to...etc. in all seriousness after that series he said they were "a Horace grant away" as his reason they lost. Well they had Horace in 94 and won 55 games without MJ.

[SouBeachTalents]

I do believe that the Magic eliminated Jordan and the Bulls in '95.
The Bulls won more playoff games without Jordan in '94 than they did with him in '95.

[3ba11]

At OP’s age the mind often starts to go.


How old do I look?



.
New Double Crossover (half speed):



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2025/6GVK_X.gif



Full speed and full clip:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2025/RvvuOW.gif

[sdot_thadon]

The Bulls won more playoff games without Jordan in '94 than they did with him in '95.

They also won more playoff games in that one run without him than he did before he got Scottie and Horace. Thats crazy.

[3ba11]

I do believe that the Magic eliminated Jordan and the Bulls in '95.


Based on the respective rosters, I wouldn't expect the Bulls to EVER beat the Magic if not for Jordan

Unfortunately, "baseball" Jordan wasn't the same Jordan

He needed more time to hardwire back in the hoops moves and therefore choked in the clutch for the first and last time.

Otoh, Lebron doesn't need an excuse to choke or play badly - he simply wasn't that good when he became the first player to shoot 35% with 5 TO's in the 08' ECSF and 07' Finals, or the 17 ppg choke vs Dirk, and goat meltdown in 2010 that caused the decision to stack the deck.. He also massively choked in the 21' 1st Round vs Booker, and other series like the 13' Finals

[RRR3]

Based on the respective rosters, I wouldn't expect the Bulls to EVER beat the Magic if not for Jordan

Unfortunately, "baseball" Jordan wasn't the same Jordan

He needed more time to hardwire back in the hoops moves and therefore choked in the clutch for the first and last time.

Otoh, Lebron doesn't need an excuse to choke or play badly - he simply wasn't that good when he became the first player to shoot 35% with 5 TO's in the 08' ECSF and 07' Finals, or the 17 ppg choke vs Dirk, and goat meltdown in 2010 that caused the decision to stack the deck.. He also massively choked in the 21' 1st Round vs Booker
What’s it like being senile? Do you still remember your friends names and stuff?

[3ba11]

What’s it like being senile? Do you still remember your friends names and stuff?


You guys take it so personal that I proved Lebron is overrated.. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

You guys take it so personal that I proved Lebron is overrated.. :oldlol:
Nah I’m just worried about you gramps. You need to take your meds you’ve been extra forgetful lately.

[tpols]

The 1994 Bulls were the 14th ranked offense. They were terrible for a playoff team. And then the Knicks smoked them.

What else is there to say?

[3ba11]

The 1994 Bulls were the 14th ranked offense. They were terrible for a playoff team. And then the Knicks smoked them.

What else is there to say?


It's interesting because the defensive ranking in 1994 (6th) was the same as 91-93' (7th, 4th, 7th), so the massive drop-off from 3-peat goatness to 2nd Round loser was due entirely to the catastrophic drop-off in offense that you referenced (goat ranking for ORTG to 14th in the league)

[SouBeachTalents]

The 1994 Bulls were the 14th ranked offense. They were terrible for a playoff team. And then the Knicks smoked them.

What else is there to say?
Lost in 7 and they even outscored the Knicks in the series. Textbook definition of a team getting smoked.

[tpols]

Lost in 7 and they even outscored the Knicks in the series. Textbook definition of a team getting smoked.

Toni saved them with a total miracle. They were borderline getting swept.

[Overdrive]

It's interesting because the defensive ranking in 1994 (6th) was the same as 91-93' (7th, 4th, 7th), so the massive drop-off from 3-peat goatness to 2nd Round loser was due entirely to the catastrophic drop-off in offense that you referenced (goat ranking for ORTG to 14th in the league)

So Jordan wasn't a 2-way player? Just good on offense? Ok. Noted. Thanks.

[3ba11]

So Jordan wasn't a 2-way player? Just good on offense? Ok. Noted. Thanks.


Teams have a finite amount of energy, so increased efforts on 1 end take away from the other - Jordan allowed a 2-WAY TEAM, aka elite or #1 team offense and defense

[sdot_thadon]

Toni saved them with a total miracle. They were borderline getting swept.

Total miracle? That was like the 4th gamewinner that year from Toni lol.

[3ba11]

Total miracle? That was like the 4th gamewinner that year from Toni lol.


So 55 wins becomes 50 without Kukoc just based on gane-winners alone - Kukoc was the closer that MJ never had, and Longley was the rim protection, while Kerr was the spacing and Harper was the athletic guard that MJ never had..

Ultimately, the Knicks played with their food because the inevitable was going to happen regardless, even facing a miracle like the Kukoc shot.

The 94' Bulls were the only team that lacked a 2nd scorer in the starting lineup, and this inferior talent shows that they lived off 3-peat chemistry and being the biggest letdown game of all-time (see the OP).. Once opponents woke up in the playoffs and following season, the "real" Bulls without MJ were barely .500 and a nothing team

[SouBeachTalents]

The Bulls won 55 games WITHOUT Jordan, that’s fvcking crazy. Nobody besides KD on the Warriors had that kind of luxury. Those are essentially Durant rings, not impressed.

[3ba11]

The Bulls won 55 games WITHOUT Jordan, that’s fvcking crazy. Nobody besides KD on the Warriors had that kind of luxury. Those are essentially Durant rings, not impressed.

Jordan had to 3-peat before they could win 55 "letdown" games without him, thereby cratering a little more gracefully, but still cratering from goat dynasty to barely .500 in less than 18 months

[sdot_thadon]

So 55 wins becomes 50 without Kukoc just based on gane-winners alone - Kukoc was the closer that MJ never had, and Longley was the rim protection, while Kerr was the spacing and Harper was the athletic guard that MJ never had..
4 gamewinners, one of them being in the playoffs theoretically drops 5 games in reg season? That MATH doe.:no:


Ultimately, the Knicks played with their food because the inevitable was going to happen regardless, even facing a miracle like the Kukoc shot.
And we'resupposed to take them seriously as some legendary competition Mj overcame?


The 94' Bulls were the only team that lacked a 2nd scorer in the starting lineup, and this inferior talent shows that they lived off 3-peat chemistry and being the biggest letdown game of all-time (see the OP).. Once opponents woke up in the playoffs and following season, the "real" Bulls without MJ were barely .500 and a nothing team They won 55 games without Mike becuase they were a great supporting cast and Pippen proved he was mvp worthy and a good leader in MJ's absence making teammates even better without Mj. Grant and Armstrong made the allstar game under his leadership, not MJ's. The following season wasnt "the real bulls" because Horace Grant left to the team that spanked them when Mj came back. And Mj conceded after the series they "were a Horace Grant away" from competing for a title. :oldlol:

[3ba11]

4 gamewinners, one of them being in the playoffs theoretically drops 5 games in reg season? That MATH doe.:no:


And we'resupposed to take them seriously as some legendary competition Mj overcame?

They won 55 games without Mike becuase they were a great supporting cast and Pippen proved he was mvp worthy and a good leader in MJ's absence making teammates even better without Mj. Grant and Armstrong made the allstar game under his leadership, not MJ's. The following season wasnt "the real bulls" because Horace Grant left to the team that spanked them when Mj came back. And Mj conceded after the series they "were a Horace Grant away" from competing for a title. :oldlol:


Anyone remotely decent in Pippen's spot would've won MVP in 94' because MVP is based on surprise factor, and there's never been a bigger surprise than 55 wins without MJ.. So Pippen's pathetic 3rd place finish despite everything set up for him proves that he wasn't "that guy"..

Tons of guys were 3rd like Blake Griffin, Booker or Joakim Noah - that's closer to Pippen's lane, and he only reached it by being handed a fully developed dynasty and having the biggest surprise factor ever, plus 55 "letdown" games of facing hungover opponents lol

The reality is that any team that builds around Pippen will lack capacity to add talent, since any decent scorer will supplant him as 1st option... This is why secondary producers like Klay, Pippen or Middleton aren't considered franchise players.

Ultimately, the 94' Bulls were all role players and several starters rode the bench for expansion teams (BJ, Longley).. They were the only team without a 2nd scoring option and without a go-to 1st option (just a system player).. Dominique said that Pippen was a role player

[Overdrive]

Teams have a finite amount of energy, so increased efforts on 1 end take away from the other - Jordan allowed a 2-WAY TEAM, aka elite or #1 team offense and defense

Yeah, whatever. You posted a stat that showed Jordan having zero defensive impact. Awesome.

[sdot_thadon]

Anyone remotely decent in Pippen's spot would've won MVP in 94' because MVP is based on surprise factor, and there's never been a bigger surprise than 55 wins without MJ.. So Pippen's pathetic 3rd place finish despite everything set up for him proves that he wasn't "that guy"..

Tons of guys were 3rd like Blake Griffin, Booker or Joakim Noah - that's closer to Pippen's lane, and he only reached it by being handed a fully developed dynasty and having the biggest surprise factor ever, plus 55 "letdown" games of facing hungover opponents lol

The reality is that any team that builds around Pippen will lack capacity to add talent, since any decent scorer will supplant him as 1st option... This is why secondary producers like Klay, Pippen or Middleton aren't considered franchise players.

Ultimately, the 94' Bulls were all role players and several starters rode the bench for expansion teams (BJ, Longley).. They were the only team without a 2nd scoring option and without a go-to 1st option (just a system player).. Dominique said that Pippen was a role player

It was only a surprise becuase Mjs cast had been underrated by the mainstream. Apparently the "Jordanaires" were much better than advertised.

Pippen the "secondary producer" was the 8th leading scorer in the NBA in 94, not too shabby. To put it even further in perspective of the top 20 scorers in 94 he also had the most assists. Thats not a secondary anything. Thats why he finished top 3 in mvp voting. Little known fact the following season in 95, after losing Grant that summer, Pippen led the team in every major statistical category for the season and finished 7th in mvp voting despite the drop off in wins. Fun fact: in 94, Ron Harper, a "nobody" the Bulls would add in 95 finished 15th in scoring. Aka top 20.

Longley was a lotto pick. BJ was projected as a lotto pick until he got hurt pre draft and dropped to where the Bulls picked him. Quit smoking crack.

[Phoenix]

The 1994 Bulls were the 14th ranked offense. They were terrible for a playoff team. And then the Knicks smoked them.

What else is there to say?

Bear in mind though, the Rockets were 15th and won the whole thing. The Knicks were 16th, the Pacers were 11th. The Jazz were the only semi-elite offense at 7th. So pretty much, odds were high that year that whoever won the 94 title was going to be elite defensively and mediocre offensively. The main difference of course, is that only one of the final 4 had peak Hakeem.

[sdot_thadon]

Bear in mind though, the Rockets were 15th and won the whole thing. The Knicks were 16th, the Pacers were 11th. The Jazz were the only semi-elite offense at 7th. So pretty much, odds were high that year that whoever won the 94 title was going to be elite defensively and mediocre offensively. The main difference of course, is that only one of the final 4 had peak Hakeem.

This is the result of lazy research lol. A bit more perspective and hed have seen the same thing you did.

[Phoenix]

This is the result of lazy research lol. A bit more perspective and hed have seen the same thing you did.

Yup. It's weird, because you'd have to look at (example) basketball-reference to ascertain the Bulls ranking. That's not information one can just pull out of the recesses of one's mind. The Rockets being immediately under them followed by the Knicks is something you'd either have to go out of you way to not notice, or hope nobody goes looking for the receipts.

I mean hell, you could even go one step further and note that the only top 10 ranked offensive team that made any noise in the 94 playoffs was Utah. Portland, Seattle, San Antonio, Miami, Cleveland, Orlando, Golden State went out in the first round. Phoenix made it to the 2nd round, Charlotte missed the playoffs. The term 'defense wins championships' very clearly applied in 94.

[sdot_thadon]

Yup. It's weird, because you'd have to look at (example) basketball-reference to ascertain the Bulls ranking. That's not information one can just pull out of the recesses of one's mind. The Rockets being immediately under them followed by the Knicks is something you'd either have to go out of you way to not notice, or hope nobody goes looking for the receipts.

I mean hell, you could even go one step further and note that the only top 10 ranked offensive team that made any noise in the 94 playoffs was Utah. Portland, Seattle, San Antonio, Miami, Cleveland, Orlando, Golden State went out in the first round. Phoenix made it to the 2nd round, Charlotte missed the playoffs. The term 'defense wins championships' very clearly applied in 94.

You know this, I know this, and he knows this as well. These guys have to use selective research to get their bs narratives into a post. Almost always been that way when it comes to a small handful of subjects.

[3ba11]

It was only a surprise becuase Mjs cast had been underrated by the mainstream. Apparently the "Jordanaires" were much better than advertised.





Even a Jordan-hater like Thinking Basketball said the Bulls had a 0 percentile cast from 88-90' (better than 0% of casts).. And the 91-93' casts were still only 75th percentile, and therefore worse than 25% of casts (7 of 28 teams), or all 2nd Round opponents.. i.e. the championship Bulls had a 1st Round cast.

Regardless, Pippen had the goat surprise factor in 94' and perfect MVP on a platter, but no one viewed him that way because he couldn't score (system player).. He wasn't ever in any "conversation" for MVP at any point in his career, and this includes 94' when any real player in his shoes would've won it







Pippen the "secondary producer" was the 8th leading scorer in the NBA in 94, not too shabby.






Again, that's bad for the 1st option of a 3-peat system with a bigger green light than everyone because there's no 2nd scoring option

8th in scoring based on automatic system points is a HORRIFIC peak capability, and one that teams didn't need to gamelan for (Pippen wasn't on scouting reports).. Otherwise, Pippen couldn't reach 15 ppg outside the system and was one of the biggest bricklayers/lane-cloggers of all-time - he would've been Ben Simmons if MJ didn't save him and carry his bricklaying.





. Fun fact: in 94, Ron Harper, a "nobody" the Bulls would add in 95 finished 15th in scoring. Aka top 20.





Harper was a better player than Horace, who he replaced in 1995 - that's why the excuse of losing Horace doesn't work to explain the decline to barely .500 in 95'.. The real reason is what Penny said - teams simply weren't letting the Bulls be the "letdown" game anymore and stopped staying out all night before playing them.







Longley was a lotto pick. BJ was projected as a lotto pick until he got hurt pre draft and dropped to where the Bulls picked him. Quit smoking crack.





Lomgley rode the bench for expansion teams after 3-peating with the Bulls - ditto BJ Armstrong

They were bench players on expansion teams but started Jordan's title teams

So you're wrong on every front

[sdot_thadon]

Even a Jordan-hater like Thinking Basketball said the Bulls had a 0 percentile cast from 88-90' (better than 0% of casts).. And the 91-93' casts were still only 75th percentile, and therefore worse than 25% of casts (7 of 28 teams), or all 2nd Round opponents.. i.e. the championship Bulls had a 1st Round cast.

Regardless, Pippen had the goat surprise factor in 94' and perfect MVP on a platter, but no one viewed him that way because he couldn't score (system player).. He wasn't ever in any "conversation" for MVP at any point in his career, and this includes 94' when any real player in his shoes would've won it







Again, that's bad for the 1st option of a 3-peat system with a bigger green light than everyone because there's no 2nd scoring option

8th in scoring based on automatic system points is a HORRIFIC peak capability, and one that teams didn't need to gamelan for (Pippen wasn't on scouting reports).. Otherwise, Pippen couldn't reach 15 ppg outside the system and was one of the biggest bricklayers/lane-cloggers of all-time - he would've been Ben Simmons if MJ didn't save him and carry his bricklaying.





Harper was a better player than Horace, who he replaced in 1995 - that's why the excuse of losing Horace doesn't work to explain the decline to barely .500 in 95'.. The real reason is what Penny said - teams simply weren't letting the Bulls be the "letdown" game anymore and stopped staying out all night before playing them.







Lomgley rode the bench for expansion teams after 3-peating with the Bulls - ditto BJ Armstrong

They were bench players on expansion teams but started Jordan's title teams

So you're wrong on every front

Youre just supremely bothered that Pippen was top 10 in scoring without Mj and you cant explain it away. And youre fully aware that Scottie played on teams with plenty of scoring after Chicago and wasnt needed for scoring but youre choosing to be a puss about it, we know. Also the Bulls cast proved beyond a shadow of doubt they were better than advertised when they won 55 without him. How could Harper replace Grant? Horace player pf and was the vital frontcourt guy all of mjs title teams fail without. Harper was a shooting guard, which apparently they didn't need. They had just won 55 games without the best sg ever.

[3ba11]

Youre just supremely bothered that Pippen was top 10 in scoring without Mj and you cant explain it away. And youre fully aware that Scottie played on teams with plenty of scoring after Chicago and wasnt needed for scoring but youre choosing to be a puss about it, we know. Also the Bulls cast proved beyond a shadow of doubt they were better than advertised when they won 55 without him. How could Harper replace Grant? Horace player pf and was the vital frontcourt guy all of mjs title teams fail without. Harper was a shooting guard, which apparently they didn't need. They had just won 55 games without the best sg ever.


You keep repeating stuff that the OP directly refutes... Penny said that everyone viewed the Pippen-led Bulls as the opportunity to stay out all night before the game.. No one cared about the Bulls in 94' and that's why Pippen was never in any conversation for MVP..

Specifically, no one thought that 55 wins meant they were a contender.. Everyone knew they were playing their ass off and surprising everyone... People were WORRIED about what the Knicks would do to them in the playoffs.. This is further demonstrated by not a single anmouncer referring to the Bulls as "pursuing a 4-peat", or "defending" 3-peat champs.. . lol

Secondly, the Bulls needed the scoring champ to win, and Pippen is taking over that role, so why can't Pippen be the scoring champ??? It's because he actually can't score, and so scraping together 22 system points to barely sneak into the top 10 is the best he can do... That's Shawn Marion or Larry Nance level, and that's IN the system he grew up in.. Outside the system, he was worse than Jeff Green and proved to be mostly a dunker.

Thirdly, in addition to Harper's acquisition, Kukoc replaced Horace in the starting lineup, so Jordan never had a closer like Kukoc or athletic guard like Harper.

Once again, wrong on every front

[sdot_thadon]

You keep repeating stuff that the OP directly refutes... Penny said that everyone viewed the Pippen-led Bulls as the opportunity to stay out all night before the game.. No one cared about the Bulls in 94' and that's why Pippen was never in any conversation for MVP..

Specifically, no one thought that 55 wins meant they were a contender.. Everyone knew they were playing their ass off and surprising everyone... People were WORRIED about what the Knicks would do to them in the playoffs.. This is further demonstrated by not a single anmouncer referring to the Bulls as "pursuing a 4-peat", or "defending" 3-peat champs.. . lol

Secondly, the Bulls needed the scoring champ to win, and Pippen is taking over that role, so why can't Pippen be the scoring champ??? It's because he actually can't score, and so scraping together 22 system points to barely sneak into the top 10 is the best he can do... That's Shawn Marion or Larry Nance level, and that's IN the system he grew up in.. Outside the system, he was worse than Jeff Green and proved to be mostly a dunker.

Thirdly, in addition to Harper's acquisition, Kukoc replaced Horace in the starting lineup, so Jordan never had a closer like Kukoc or athletic guard like Harper.

Once again, wrong on every front

Im just keeping this going to allow you to keep proving how retarded you are. Its a bit entertaining to watch all the hoops you've gotta jump through just to make a post. Your Op hasn't refuted a thing. Youre trying to use a quote about how special it was to play Mj and twist it into "nobody respected the 94 Bulls they took it easy on them" if thats true its even more condemning to the era as a whole you dummy. Actually if you watched any games from then Pippen was stated as part of the mvp conversation on live TV. You keep talking about the 90s like you actually watched the shit but those of us who really did know what's up. Pippen wouldnt be the scoring champ because Phil didn't want a scoring champ, he wanted someone to play his basketball philosophy out on the floor and no one expressed Phil's style more than Scottie. 2 last things before I allow you to re-roast yourself by posting again.

1) youre comparing Marion, a guy who was spoon fed almost every bucket he made to scottie, a guy who scored and facilitated in his role? Square peg, round hole looking mfer. Lol

2) Mj had both Kukoc and Harper in addition to a big 3 of himself scottie and Rodman. Cmon son. Wake up.

[3ba11]

.
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https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg


^^^ Pippen had worst-ever efficiency on the 93' title run too, so that's 3 title runs with worst-ever efficiency






Jordan's shot attempts, usage and scoring rate increased in the triangle as shown below:




Regular Season

85-89' Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1989-sum:per_poss)........ 41.5 pts per 100.... 29.5 FGA per 100..... 33.8 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1989-sum:advanced) usage
90-93' Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1990-1993-sum:per_poss)........ 42.0 pts per 100.... 31.1 FGA per 100..... 33.2 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1990-1993-sum:advanced) usage


Playoffs

85-89' Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1989-sum:per_poss_post)........ 42.9 pts per 100.... 29.7 FGA per 100..... 35.1 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1988-sum:advanced_post) usage
90-93' Jordan (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1990-1993-sum:per_poss_post)........ 44.4 pts per 100.... 33.4 FGA per 100..... 36.1 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1990-1993-sum:advanced_post) usage


Finals

91-93' Jordan (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=michael+jordan+averages+in+the+1990-91+to+1992-93%27+finals)........ 36.3 PPG...... 35.9 (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=michael+jordan+usage+rate+in+1990-91+to+1992-93+finals) usage



The Pistons were 22-1 in the 89' and 90' Playoffs against other teams, but only 8-5 against the Bulls.. So Jordan had already developed the Bulls to the 2nd or 3rd-best team in the league by the end of the 89' Playoffs despite Pippen being bad and Phil yet to arrive.. Phil inherited a team on the cusp of the Finals and the steepest trajectory in the league

[3ba11]

.
.
Pippen telling Rachel Nichols that he can't space the floor and is similar to Westbrick in that way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s






Im just keeping this going to allow you to keep proving how retarded you are. Its a bit entertaining to watch all the hoops you've gotta jump through just to make a post. Your Op hasn't refuted a thing. Youre trying to use a quote about how special it was to play Mj and twist it into "nobody respected the 94 Bulls they took it easy on them" if thats true its even more condemning to the era as a whole you dummy. Actually if you watched any games from then Pippen was stated as part of the mvp conversation on live TV. You keep talking about the 90s like you actually watched the shit but those of us who really did know what's up. Pippen wouldnt be the scoring champ because Phil didn't want a scoring champ, he wanted someone to play his basketball philosophy out on the floor and no one expressed Phil's style more than Scottie. 2 last things before I allow you to re-roast yourself by posting again.

1) youre comparing Marion, a guy who was spoon fed almost every bucket he made to scottie, a guy who scored and facilitated in his role? Square peg, round hole looking mfer. Lol





Shawn Marion was a far superior shooter, rebounder and shot-blocker than Pippen.. Both guys were bird-fed - Pippen had mostly assisted buckets and automatic system points because he lacked a breakdown handle in the halfcourt and couldn't create his own shot - he also couldn't provide spacing for PNR offenses like Marion.. Pippen told Rachel Nichols that he couldn't provide spacing for PNR or big man offenses (link above)..

And again, Pippen was never in any "conversation" for MVP - no one debated Pippen vs Hakeem/Robinson and its a 100% absurd lie to pretend that they did.. I was there - no one even knew that Pippen was 3rd until decades later because media awards meant nothing back then.. It was a tiny cabal of media and most fans were completely unaware of All-NBA or MVP voting - it was considered meaningless.

And Phil needed Jordan to increase his FGA, usage and scoring rate to win in the triangle (previous post).. Pippen couldn't fulfill these top-heavy requirements to win in the triangle (scoring champ), so the team fell from goat dynasty to a trash team - they lost in the 2nd Round and were barely .500 the following year.. And yes, the triangle has always been a dogshit offense for being so top heavy and requiring carry-jobs to win - no one ever won with the pure triangle without MJ or Kobe, who are the goat bailout artists that the trash offense requires (11 rings with MJ or Kobe).

Pippen was essentially Aaron Gordon (except without the playoff clutch).. However, unprecedented winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade. . Infact, outside of the system that he grew up in, Pippen was a much worse scorer than Gordon.







2) Mj had both Kukoc and Harper in addition to a big 3 of himself scottie and Rodman. Cmon son. Wake up.





Harper averaged 7 ppg before MJ returned, and Kukoc was a role player too - they were equivalent to Shumpert and JR Smith.

And Rodman averaged 4/8 for the 97' Playoffs and wasn't the starter for the 98' Playoffs, so he was worse than 2008 Ben Wallace or 2010 Shaq.. Meanwhile, Pippen averaged 17 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, so MJ won with nothing.. The stats show that he won 6 carry-jobs... His ability to carry the "star" category of scoring required the least all-star help ever, thereby allowing GM's to fill out the roster with cheap defenders.

[97 bulls]

.
.
Pippen telling Rachel Nichols that he can't space the floor and is similar to Westbrick in that way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s

Pippen isn't a 3pt spot up shooter. Thats not a knock. Jordan wouldn't fair much better in that role either. Probably worse.





Shawn Marion was a far superior shooter, rebounder and shot-blocker than Pippen.. Both guys were bird-fed - Pippen had mostly assisted buckets and automatic system points because he lacked a breakdown handle in the halfcourt and couldn't create his own shot - he also couldn't provide spacing for PNR offenses like Marion.. Pippen told Rachel Nichols that he couldn't provide spacing for PNR or big man offenses (link above)..

And again, Pippen was never in any "conversation" for MVP - no one debated Pippen vs Hakeem/Robinson and its a 100% absurd lie to pretend that they did.. I was there - no one even knew that Pippen was 3rd until decades later because media awards meant nothing back then.. It was a tiny cabal of media and most fans were completely unaware of All-NBA or MVP voting - it was considered meaningless.

And Phil needed Jordan to increase his FGA, usage and scoring rate to win in the triangle (previous post).. Pippen couldn't fulfill these top-heavy requirements to win in the triangle (scoring champ), so the team fell from goat dynasty to a trash team - they lost in the 2nd Round and were barely .500 the following year.. And yes, the triangle has always been a dogshit offense for being so top heavy and requiring carry-jobs to win - no one ever won with the pure triangle without MJ or Kobe, who are the goat bailout artists that the trash offense requires (11 rings with MJ or Kobe).

Pippen was essentially Aaron Gordon (except without the playoff clutch).. However, unprecedented winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade. . Infact, outside of the system that he grew up in, Pippen was a much worse scorer than Gordon.







Harper averaged 7 ppg before MJ returned, and Kukoc was a role player too - they were equivalent to Shumpert and JR Smith.

And Rodman averaged 4/8 for the 97' Playoffs and wasn't the starter for the 98' Playoffs, so he was worse than 2008 Ben Wallace or 2010 Shaq.. Meanwhile, Pippen averaged 17 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, so MJ won with nothing.. The stats show that he won 6 carry-jobs... His ability to carry the "star" category of scoring required the least all-star help ever, thereby allowing GM's to fill out the roster with cheap defenders.

If Pippen had 4 straight DPOY trophies, then perhaps you'd have more respect for what he did on the court. The fact is that Pippen finished first in All Defense 4 straight times. Thats even more impressive than winning DPOY. Why? Because the coaches voted for the All Defense team. And it had to be the coaches from opposing teams. Not your own. The DPOY award is voted on by the sports writers.

At some point, you have to admit that people saw Pip as that guy. The results proved it.

[3ba11]

Pippen isn't a 3pt spot up shooter. Thats not a knock. Jordan wouldn't fair much better in that role either. Probably worse.






If Pippen had 4 straight DPOY trophies, then perhaps you'd have more respect for what he did on the court. The fact is that Pippen finished first in All Defense 4 straight times. Thats even more impressive than winning DPOY. Why? Because the coaches voted for the All Defense team. And it had to be the coaches from opposing teams. Not your own. The DPOY award is voted on by the sports writers.

At some point, you have to admit that people saw Pip as that guy. The results proved it.



Great

So MJ won 6 chips with Rudy Gobert

Got it

It's also interesting that SG's say things like "if MJ didn't want you to score, you didn't score,"... But no SF's say that about Pippen.. that's because they all destroyed him - literally - Dominique, Mullin, X-Man, Rice, Juwan Howard, Larry Johnson, Nance, Aguirre, Schrempf, Hill, Mashburn GRob and more

The reality is that Jordan tied or finished ahead of Pippen in DPOY voting for 7 of 9 seasons together.... Ultimately, Pippen's defense is overrated - it's was something the media got good at complimenting Pippen for because they couldn't compliment his offense

[sdot_thadon]

.
.
Pippen telling Rachel Nichols that he can't space the floor and is similar to Westbrick in that way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s






Shawn Marion was a far superior shooter, rebounder and shot-blocker than Pippen.. Both guys were bird-fed - Pippen had mostly assisted buckets and automatic system points because he lacked a breakdown handle in the halfcourt and couldn't create his own shot - he also couldn't provide spacing for PNR offenses like Marion.. Pippen told Rachel Nichols that he couldn't provide spacing for PNR or big man offenses (link above)..

And again, Pippen was never in any "conversation" for MVP - no one debated Pippen vs Hakeem/Robinson and its a 100% absurd lie to pretend that they did.. I was there - no one even knew that Pippen was 3rd until decades later because media awards meant nothing back then.. It was a tiny cabal of media and most fans were completely unaware of All-NBA or MVP voting - it was considered meaningless.

And Phil needed Jordan to increase his FGA, usage and scoring rate to win in the triangle (previous post).. Pippen couldn't fulfill these top-heavy requirements to win in the triangle (scoring champ), so the team fell from goat dynasty to a trash team - they lost in the 2nd Round and were barely .500 the following year.. And yes, the triangle has always been a dogshit offense for being so top heavy and requiring carry-jobs to win - no one ever won with the pure triangle without MJ or Kobe, who are the goat bailout artists that the trash offense requires (11 rings with MJ or Kobe).

Pippen was essentially Aaron Gordon (except without the playoff clutch).. However, unprecedented winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade. . Infact, outside of the system that he grew up in, Pippen was a much worse scorer than Gordon.







Harper averaged 7 ppg before MJ returned, and Kukoc was a role player too - they were equivalent to Shumpert and JR Smith.

And Rodman averaged 4/8 for the 97' Playoffs and wasn't the starter for the 98' Playoffs, so he was worse than 2008 Ben Wallace or 2010 Shaq.. Meanwhile, Pippen averaged 17 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, so MJ won with nothing.. The stats show that he won 6 carry-jobs... His ability to carry the "star" category of scoring required the least all-star help ever, thereby allowing GM's to fill out the roster with cheap defenders.

You do realize Pippen has only 10% more assisted buckets than Mj on record? Pippen didn't break the offense as after as Mj did for sure. But thats unimportant, Marion isnt a Pippen level guy. He was a good player but mostly an assisted garbage man whi excelled at his role. Were talking as high as 80% of his fgs assisted several seasons. That was never pippen on the Bulls.


And again, Pippen was never in any "conversation" for MVP - no one debated Pippen vs Hakeem/Robinson and its a 100% absurd lie to pretend that they did.. I was there - no one even knew that Pippen was 3rd until decades later because media awards meant nothing back then.

In the 1st game of the 94 playoffs, literally 20 sec in.....

...Scottie Pippen, definitely a contender for MVP with Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson for MVP

Also


In Chicago, we were high on Scottie as MVP in 1994. But he had solid support league-wide. Sam Smith asked four MVP candidates — Pippen, Shaq, Hakeem and David Robinson — midseason for their MVP top 4, noting that they could not vote for themselves. Scottie and Dream were the only two players named by all four participants.

Also

As Olajuwon summed up the race in April: “You can’t go wrong if you pick me or David or Scottie Pippen.”

Another tidbit to tell you how good Scottie was that season: he became the 1st player to ever outright finish 1st in all nba and all defensive voting with no ties. (Later to be repeated by Lebron) Mj almost did it but had someone else tie him in votes. And the list of guys to do it even with a tie is pretty great company.

And just to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside


“I just don’t see how you would get equal value for a player like Scottie Pippen. Maybe for a Hakeem Olajuwon, and I’m not even sure you would want to do that.”
Tell us more about how this guy who finsihed 8th that sesaon in scoring sucks :oldlol:

[3ba11]

You do realize Pippen has only 10% more assisted buckets than Mj on record? Pippen didn't break the offense as after as Mj did for sure. But thats unimportant, Marion isnt a Pippen level guy. He was a good player but mostly an assisted garbage man whi excelled at his role. Were talking as high as 80% of his fgs assisted several seasons. That was never pippen on the Bulls.



In the 1st game of the 94 playoffs, literally 20 sec in.....


Also



Also


Another tidbit to tell you how good Scottie was that season: he became the 1st player to ever outright finish 1st in all nba and all defensive voting with no ties. (Later to be repeated by Lebron) Mj almost did it but had someone else tie him in votes. And the list of guys to do it even with a tie is pretty great company.

And just to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside


Tell us more about how this guy who finsihed 8th that sesaon in scoring sucks :oldlol:


Pippen was never in the conversation for MVP and Marion was better than Pippen by virtue of better scoring - he didn't need a system and could space the floor.. And no one was more of an assisted bird-fed player than Pippen.. The only reason his assisted rate was a little lower was because he often led the break and most of his points were transition.. But in the halfcourt, he couldn't shoot or score, especially outside the system, so Marion was much better

The 94' Bulls had no 2nd scorer and no go-to players, so they got by on 3-peat chemistry and letdown games/sleeping opponents.. That's why they cratered in the playoffs and following season when opponents woke up and took the Bulls seriously again

[sdot_thadon]

Pippen was never in the conversation for MVP and Marion was better than Pippen by virtue of better scoring - he didn't need a system and could space the floor.. And no one was more of an assisted bird-fed player than Pippen.. The only reason his assisted rate was a little lower was because he often led the break and most of his points were transition.. But in the halfcourt, he couldn't shoot or score, especially outside the system, so Marion was much better

The 94' Bulls had no 2nd scorer and no go-to players, so they got by on 3-peat chemistry and letdown games/sleeping opponents.. That's why they cratered in the playoffs and following season when opponents woke up and took the Bulls seriously again

The percentages are there fool. Marion was far more assisted in his career than Pippens 2 seasons on record with the Bulls. Notice you completely abandoned ship about nobody saying pippen was in the mvp conversation though. I gave you plenty of examples/quotes. Youre pretty pissy about it to say the least. Scottie Pippen the franchise guy got you hyperventilating over here.

[97 bulls]

You do realize Pippen has only 10% more assisted buckets than Mj on record? Pippen didn't break the offense as after as Mj did for sure. But thats unimportant, Marion isnt a Pippen level guy. He was a good player but mostly an assisted garbage man whi excelled at his role. Were talking as high as 80% of his fgs assisted several seasons. That was never pippen on the Bulls.



In the 1st game of the 94 playoffs, literally 20 sec in.....


Also



Also


Another tidbit to tell you how good Scottie was that season: he became the 1st player to ever outright finish 1st in all nba and all defensive voting with no ties. (Later to be repeated by Lebron) Mj almost did it but had someone else tie him in votes. And the list of guys to do it even with a tie is pretty great company.

And just to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside


Tell us more about how this guy who finsihed 8th that sesaon in scoring sucks :oldlol:

Wow, thats amazing. I never knew that.

[3ba11]

The percentages are there fool. Marion was far more assisted in his career than Pippens 2 seasons on record with the Bulls. Notice you completely abandoned ship about nobody saying pippen was in the mvp conversation though. I gave you plenty of examples/quotes. Youre pretty pissy about it to say the least. Scottie Pippen the franchise guy got you hyperventilating over here.


The first sentence of my last post was:

"Pippen was never in the conversation for MVP"

because he wasn't

And he was never considered a franchise player

So you're fabricating and trying to revise history so massively that it doesn't add up

[3ba11]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TuizvKaBSWM


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1fOyV49zKDA



Ben Simmons was a prodigal #1 pick and far more talented then Pippen - he was All-NBA and All-Defense at 23 years old, while being a better passer/creator than Pippen ever was.

However, the stunted development of Ben Simmons shows how Pippen would've been if he didn't land in the perfect development situation alongside MJ.. For example, if Pippen landed on the stacked Lakers, he would've been buried on the bench instead of getting good minutes as a rookie in Chicago... Meanwhile, Magic would likely want Pippen to spot-up more often (his weakness) compared to MJ's off-ball game putting the ball in Pippen's hands.. It's common knowledge that MJ made Pippen (above).. This is the consensus by Pippen, MJ, Phil, the entire Bulls team, media and fans that were there at the time.

Rookies that need development should want to land alongside off-ball players like Curry, MJ, or Duncan, since their skillset puts the ball in young players' hands and has a substantial record of teammate development (Pippen, Grant, BJ, Poole, Draymond, Klay, Wiggins, Manu, Parker)... Contrastingly, developing rookies should treat ball-dominators like Luka and Lebron like the plague, since their skillsets of turning everyone into spot-up shooter never developed anyone and has a long list of bad fits or teammates cratering (Love, Bosh, Jamison, Hughes, Ingram, Kuzma, Brunson, Porzingas, many more).

This is all historical record and bball 101

[3ba11]

Wow, thats amazing. I never knew that.


Imagine a team winning by a lot on TV, and some glossy-eyed kid saying "everyone on that team is SOOO GOOD"

That's what meda awards are... They're for beginner fans and meant to sell the media's narratives.. It's literally the opinion of Rachel Nichols and Skip Bayless (baby-brained when it comes to hoops).

For example, Klay is a MUCH lower producer than Hornacek or 09' Mo, and therefore didn't deserve All-NBA...Similarly, large swathes of Pippen's prime mimick Hornacek across the board (91', 93', 98', 99'), while his entire game and confidence was developed from playing with MJ in the first place (previous post).. He wouldn't be anywhere near 20 ppg if he developed elsewhere or outside the coddling triangle.. No one would know who he was if he was losing on the Wizards like Harvey Grant (Horace's 18 ppg SF brother).

Pippen couldn't score in the halfcourt or 4th, which is why Kukoc took over the "sidekick" role in his first playoffs as a starter - he was 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring in the 98' Playoffs, so any decent scorer supplants Pippen as the preferred option behind MJ.. Again, Pippen would be nothing (Harvey Grant,) if he didn't develop alongside MJ.

Ultimately, Pippen never pulled his weight because his horrible efficiency and bricklaying forced MJ to carry the statistical load more than anyone in history (15.4 average margin over all teammates per series) and average 5 more ppg than everyone in playoff history.. So pippen was the opposite of the savior that you're claiming - he never pulled his weight and was carried by MJ.

Another example of media awards meaning little is the Warriors - the surprising 15' Warriors and their era-changing brand of ball created a winning spotlight that inflated Klay and Dray.. It's similar to Wiggins making all-star in 2022, or Poole being viewed as a "budding star" in the Curry system and now his 21 ppg means nothing on the Wizards.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TuizvKaBSWM


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1fOyV49zKDA



Ben Simmons was a prodigal #1 pick and far more talented then Pippen - he was All-NBA and All-Defense at 23 years old, while being a better passer/creator than Pippen ever was.

However, the stunted development of Ben Simmons shows how Pippen would've been if he didn't land in the perfect development situation alongside MJ.. For example, if Pippen landed on the stacked Lakers, he would've been buried on the bench instead of getting good minutes as a rookie in Chicago... Meanwhile, Magic would likely want Pippen to spot-up more often (his weakness) compared to MJ's off-ball game putting the ball in Pippen's hands.. It's common knowledge that MJ made Pippen (above).. This is the consensus by Pippen, MJ, Phil, the entire Bulls team, media and fans that were there at the time.

Rookies that need development should want to land alongside off-ball players like Curry, MJ, or Duncan, since their skillset puts the ball in young players' hands and has a substantial record of teammate development (Pippen, Grant, BJ, Poole, Draymond, Klay, Wiggins, Manu, Parker)... Contrastingly, developing rookies should treat ball-dominators like Luka and Lebron like the plague, since their skillsets of turning everyone into spot-up shooter never developed anyone and has a long list of bad fits or teammates cratering (Love, Bosh, Jamison, Hughes, Ingram, Kuzma, Brunson, Porzingas, many more).

This is all historical record and bball 101


Imagine a team winning by a lot on TV, and some glossy-eyed kid saying "everyone on that team is SOOO GOOD"

That's what meda awards are... They're for beginner fans and meant to sell the media's narratives.. It's literally the opinion of Rachel Nichols and Skip Bayless (baby-brained when it comes to hoops).

For example, Klay is a MUCH lower producer than Hornacek or 09' Mo, and therefore didn't deserve All-NBA...Similarly, large swathes of Pippen's prime mimick Hornacek across the board (91', 93', 98', 99'), while his entire game and confidence was developed from playing with MJ in the first place (previous post).. He wouldn't be anywhere near 20 ppg if he developed elsewhere or outside the coddling triangle.. No one would know who he was if he was losing on the Wizards like Harvey Grant (Horace's 18 ppg SF brother).

Pippen couldn't score in the halfcourt or 4th, which is why Kukoc took over the "sidekick" role in his first playoffs as a starter - he was 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring in the 98' Playoffs, so any decent scorer supplants Pippen as the preferred option behind MJ.. Again, Pippen would be nothing (Harvey Grant,) if he didn't develop alongside MJ.

Ultimately, Pippen never pulled his weight because his horrible efficiency and bricklaying forced MJ to carry the statistical load more than anyone in history (15.4 average margin over all teammates per series) and average 5 more ppg than everyone in playoff history.. So pippen was the opposite of the savior that you're claiming - he never pulled his weight and was carried by MJ.

Another example of media awards meaning little is the Warriors - the surprising 15' Warriors and their era-changing brand of ball created a winning spotlight that inflated Klay and Dray.. It's similar to Wiggins making all-star in 2022, or Poole being viewed as a "budding star" in the Curry system and now his 21 ppg means nothing on the Wizards.
:roll:

3ball spending his labor day weekend in style.

[sdot_thadon]

The first sentence of my last post was:

"Pippen was never in the conversation for MVP"

because he wasn't

And he was never considered a franchise player

So you're fabricating and trying to revise history so massively that it doesn't add up

And I 1st post debunked your bs already. Pippen was indeed an mvp candidate throughout the season.Live on national TV just before game 1 of the Bulls 94 playoff run, literally 20 sec in for you lazy viewing entertainment:


...Scottie Pippen, definitely a contender for MVP with Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson for MVP

Article done by Sam Smith on the MVP race:

In Chicago, we were high on Scottie as MVP in 1994. But he had solid support league-wide. Sam Smith asked four MVP candidates — Pippen, Shaq, Hakeem and David Robinson — midseason for their MVP top 4, noting that they could not vote for themselves. Scottie and Dream were the only two players named by all four participants.

Lastly from the guy who actually won MVP when asked about the race:

As Olajuwon summed up the race in April: “You can’t go wrong if you pick me or David or Scottie Pippen.”

I'll take actually archived historical proof over a deranged copy paste bot any day.

Also ill leave this here again to remind you how good Pippen was to your god:

“I just don’t see how you would get equal value for a player like Scottie Pippen. Maybe for a Hakeem Olajuwon, and I’m not even sure you would want to do that.”

So Pippen:

-lotto pick
-development coincidentally came and the bulls won more as a result
-outscored all the Lakers in the 91 finals
-was considered the bes player on the dream team in 92
-the only sidekick in the 90s to perennially make all nba and all defensive teams

In 94:

-led the bulls to 55 wins, only 2 less than the previous season with Mj
-3rd in MVP voting
-4th in dpoy voting
- 1st ever player to outright lead in voting for all nba and all defensive teams
-raised 2 teammates into 1st time Allstars without MJ.
-in 95 led the bulls in all major statistical categories

And there's plenty more to add to that like calls for fmvp etc. Pippen was pretty great.


And that whole diatribe about Ben Simmons....:biggums::biggums::biggums:

Simmons was a lotto pick that wouldn't shoot. Hes not Pippen he needed some kind of counseling. He stopped improving altogether. Pippen should give some credit to Mj for developing but this he "made him" trash is one of the worst sports takes ever. Why didn't he just "make" another one then? He had other lotto picks in his career. Shit on the record we know for sure he absolutely ruined a no.1 pick in Washington. Meanwhile Mj probably has to gove a bit of credit to Pippen for evolving him as well. Having to go head to head with the best perimeter defender on earth at that time in practice everyday im sure helped Mjs game a ton. Maybe Scotties the one who "made" Mj after all......

[3ba11]

And I 1st post debunked your bs already. Pippen was indeed an mvp candidate throughout the season.Live on national TV just before game 1 of the Bulls 94 playoff run, literally 20 sec in for you lazy viewing entertainment:



Article done by Sam Smith on the MVP race:


Lastly from the guy who actually won MVP when asked about the race:


I'll take actually archived historical proof over a deranged copy paste bot any day.

Also ill leave this here again to remind you how good Pippen was to your god:


So Pippen:

-lotto pick
-development coincidentally came and the bulls won more as a result
-outscored all the Lakers in the 91 finals
-was considered the bes player on the dream team in 92
-the only sidekick in the 90s to perennially make all nba and all defensive teams

In 94:

-led the bulls to 55 wins, only 2 less than the previous season with Mj
-3rd in MVP voting
-4th in dpoy voting
- 1st ever player to outright lead in voting for all nba and all defensive teams
-raised 2 teammates into 1st time Allstars without MJ.
-in 95 led the bulls in all major statistical categories

And there's plenty more to add to that like calls for fmvp etc. Pippen was pretty great.


And that whole diatribe about Ben Simmons....:biggums::biggums::biggums:

Simmons was a lotto pick that wouldn't shoot. Hes not Pippen he needed some kind of counseling. He stopped improving altogether. Pippen should give some credit to Mj for developing but this he "made him" trash is one of the worst sports takes ever. Why didn't he just "make" another one then? He had other lotto picks in his career. Shit on the record we know for sure he absolutely ruined a no.1 pick in Washington. Meanwhile Mj probably has to gove a bit of credit to Pippen for evolving him as well. Having to go head to head with the best perimeter defender on earth at that time in practice everyday im sure helped Mjs game a ton. Maybe Scotties the one who "made" Mj after all......


I looked it up and you fabricated Pippen MVP talk so stop it

I was there - no one had any idea he would even be 3rd or even top 10... No one viewed pippen as a top 10 player regardless of the few EXCEPTIONS that are outnumbered 100 fold by the consensus.. The media opinion/awards means nothing, especially back then when no one knew about the awards... Most people didn't have Pippen top 10 back then - PERIOD.. KJ was considered easily better... And obviously Stockton... Most people thought Kemp too, who he was nearly traded for

And 94' means nothing because he was handed a fully-developed dynasty - he didn't have to build shit, and then he quicky cratered the dynasty to barely .500 before MJ returned - so he left MJ with another crappy team that MJ had to turn into a champion.. Pippen couldn't be a franchise player because he wasn't a big enough or dominant producer - any team that builds around a low producer like Pippen lacks capacity to add talent, since any decent scorer will supplant him as the top option.. This is why Klay, Middleton and Pippen aren't considered franchise players

[sdot_thadon]

I looked it up and you fabricated Pippen MVP talk so stop it

I was there - no one had any idea he would even be 3rd or even top 10... No one viewed pippen as a top 10 player regardless of the few EXCEPTIONS that are outnumbered 100 fold by the consensus.. The media opinion/awards means nothing, especially back then when no one knew about the awards... Most people didn't have Pippen top 10 back then - PERIOD.. KJ was considered easily better... And obviously Stockton... Most people thought Kemp too, who he was nearly traded for

And 94' means nothing because he was handed a fully-developed dynasty - he didn't have to build shit, and then he quicky cratered the dynasty to barely .500 before MJ returned - so he left MJ with another crappy team that MJ had to turn into a champion.. Pippen couldn't be a franchise player because he wasn't a big enough or dominant producer - any team that builds around a low producer like Pippen lacks capacity to add talent, since any decent scorer will supplant him as the top option.. This is why Klay, Middleton and Pippen aren't considered franchise players

Proof is more than a 4 letter word bud. Theres no proof he wasnt in the mvp conversation when I already gave several instances of him being in the convo. One from a national TV broadcast. Scottie Pippen really gives 3ball a rash.

[3ba11]

Proof is more than a 4 letter word bud. Theres no proof he wasnt in the mvp conversation when I already gave several instances of him being in the convo. One from a national TV broadcast. Scottie Pippen really gives 3ball a rash.


Just provide the links like I do below where Pippen himself says MJ made him, along with literally everyone else agreeing, and even then everyone says he wasn't that good:



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TuizvKaBSWM


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1fOyV49zKDA



^^^ Pippen says MJ made him


And yet Pippen's prime frequently mirrored prime hornacek offensively in 91', 93', 98', 99' (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, PPG, APG)



Colin Cowherd on Pippen - just a dunker and bum - skip to 5:21 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0GmTWyplOc&t=05m21s) mark:



Isiah saying the Bulls are a 1-man team during the 93' Finals:



When you're talking about this Bulls' team, you're really only talking about Michael Jordan.. So you can speculate about what would happen if you took me off the Pistons and him off the Bulls - yeah, our casts are better - but the fact is, he isn't being taken off the team - he's still there and no one has figured out how to beat this guy"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w&t=94s




Magic saying the Bulls are a 1-man team during 1993 Finals:



"Bulls rely on Michael too much, so if you take me away and you take Michael away from the Bulls, then our team would demolish his team."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w&t=36s




Shaq and Reggie Miller saying the Bulls were a 1-man team:




https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-29-2025/csA7PJ.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif

[sdot_thadon]

Just provide the links like I do below
I gave you rhe quotes from national TV and told you exactly how to find it. Do it yourself. And Google will lead you to any quote I post. I dont need to lie like you, provide false info or stats to try to make a point. Its all out there and more.

[3ba11]

I gave you rhe quotes from national TV and told you exactly how to find it. Do it yourself. And Google will lead you to any quote I post. I dont need to lie like you, provide false info or stats to try to make a point. Its all out there and more.


I looked where you said... It wasn't there. I called your bluff and you can't show receipts

Regardless, it wouldn't shock me if the massive surprise factor of the Bulls being above .500 inspired some announcer to mention Pippen, but that would be the outlier that proves the rule - Pippen was never in any conversation for MVP and was never considered anywhere NEAR Hakeem or Robinson .. It's literally absurd to say that he was ever considered on these guys' level.. He was only selected to the Dream Team because of MJ - they wanted that aspect of the champion Bulls on the team - MJ and his sidekick - without this status, Pippen's inability to shoot or score in the halfcourt would never make all-time teams

[sdot_thadon]

I looked where you said... It wasn't there. I called your bluff and you can't show receipts

Regardless, it wouldn't shock me if the massive surprise factor of the Bulls being above .500 inspired some announcer to mention Pippen, but that would be the outlier that proves the rule - Pippen was never in any conversation for MVP and was never considered anywhere NEAR Hakeem or Robinson .. It's literally absurd to say that he was ever considered on these guys' level.. He was only selected to the Dream Team because of MJ - they wanted that aspect of the champion Bulls on the team - MJ and his sidekick - without this status, Pippen's inability to shoot or score in the halfcourt would never make all-time teams

You cant be on this board this much and be this ****ing stupid. Game 1 of the 94 playoffs for the bulls literally 20 seconds into the broadcast from the great Hubie Brown. Direct quote from the guy who actually won mvp, about who should win. An article from a sportswriter who actually polled mvp candidates and asked them who should be considered. As i said you can go find it yourself. Only way it can get more clear than that is rubbing your face in the shit like a dog. Go ahead, tuck your tail, and make a new thread about lebrons nipple or whatever weird shit you think of next, you're done here.

[j3lademaster]

How old do I look?



.
New Double Crossover (half speed):



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2025/6GVK_X.gif



Full speed and full clip:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2025/RvvuOW.gif

You move very well. Tight handle and good shiftiness, but the grey beard kind of gives it away. I’m going to say approaching mid 40’s.

And are you favoring one of your knees?

[3ba11]

You move very well. Tight handle and good shiftiness, but the grey beard kind of gives it away. I’m going to say approaching mid 40’s.

And are you favoring one of your knees?


49 in December and disc herniation in my back that causes me to favor it.. It's healing slowly... I dribble better with my left hand so the move looks lower to the ground, quicker and tighter when done with my left hand as the in-out dribble.. I'll post it with my left hand soon

[3ba11]

You cant be on this board this much and be this ****ing stupid. Game 1 of the 94 playoffs for the bulls literally 20 seconds into the broadcast from the great Hubie Brown. Direct quote from the guy who actually won mvp, about who should win. An article from a sportswriter who actually polled mvp candidates and asked them who should be considered. As i said you can go find it yourself. Only way it can get more clear than that is rubbing your face in the shit like a dog. Go ahead, tuck your tail, and make a new thread about lebrons nipple or whatever weird shit you think of next, you're done here.


I provided links for everyone that said Pippen was bad and carried

Otoh, you can't provide anything, so you lied and were caught

Pippen was never in any conversation for MVP and was never considered anywhere NEAR Hakeem or Robinson .. It's literally absurd to say that he was ever considered on these guys' level.. He was only selected to the Dream Team because of MJ - they wanted that aspect of the champion Bulls on the team - MJ and his sidekick - without this status, Pippen's inability to shoot or score in the halfcourt would never make all-time teams

[j3lademaster]

49 in December and disc herniation in my back that causes me to favor it.. It's healing slowly... I dribble better with my left hand so the move looks lower to the ground, quicker and tighter when done with my left hand as the in-out dribble.. I'll post it with my left hand soon
How does that affect your defensive stance?

[3ba11]

How does that affect your defensive stance?


It's good and the herniation doesn't bother me once I'm standing up and walking around and I don't feel it when I'm warmed up and playing.

That being said, 49 year olds don't actually play D.. We "anticipate"

[sdot_thadon]

I provided links for everyone that said Pippen was bad and carried

Otoh, you can't provide anything, so you lied and were caught

Pippen was never in any conversation for MVP and was never considered anywhere NEAR Hakeem or Robinson .. It's literally absurd to say that he was ever considered on these guys' level.. He was only selected to the Dream Team because of MJ - they wanted that aspect of the champion Bulls on the team - MJ and his sidekick - without this status, Pippen's inability to shoot or score in the halfcourt would never make all-time teams

Delusional disorder is a real thing. Scottie Pippen got this boi sweating.

[3ba11]

Delusional disorder is a real thing. Scottie Pippen got this boi sweating.


You lost and were caught lying. Deal with it

[nayte]

I really hate to kind of agree with three ball but the bulls were not taken as seriously after Jordan left.and from what I remember they were on a mission the prove the haters wrong
I am happy to be proven wrong with this please. Lol
Then again no one expected the bulls to get that far so credit to pip for an amazing year

[sdot_thadon]

You lost and were caught lying. Deal with it
Show me the lie. You've got quotes and I gave you which game on national TV and a roundabout timestamp of the 20 seconds into the broadcast. Thats a tee-ball level at bat if you could prove a lie. Here one more time for your sanity:


...Scottie Pippen, definitely a contender for MVP with Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson for MVP


As Olajuwon summed up the race in April: “You can’t go wrong if you pick me or David or Scottie Pippen.”


In Chicago, we were high on Scottie as MVP in 1994. But he had solid support league-wide. Sam Smith asked four MVP candidates — Pippen, Shaq, Hakeem and David Robinson — midseason for their MVP top 4, noting that they could not vote for themselves. Scottie and Dream were the only two players named by all four participants.

Scottie Pippen was also the 1st player EVER to outright get voted 1st place for both all nba and all defensive 1st teams.

Media and peer support. Your MVP candidate, Scottie Pippen. :oldlol::oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

I really hate to kind of agree with three ball but the bulls were not taken as seriously after Jordan left.and from what I remember they were on a mission the prove the haters wrong
I am happy to be proven wrong with this please. Lol
Then again no one expected the bulls to get that far so credit to pip for an amazing year

I dont think anyone is arguing that the 94 bulls were as imposing as the title teams with Mj. Its just chickenshit to try to diminish their season. If we're going to do that, we using that same excuse to diminish every good team's breakout season because "we didn't see them coming"?

[3ba11]

Show me the lie. You've got quotes and I gave you which game on national TV and a roundabout timestamp of the 20 seconds into the broadcast. Thats a tee-ball level at bat if you could prove a lie. Here one more time for your sanity:







Scottie Pippen was also the 1st player EVER to outright get voted 1st place for both all nba and all defensive 1st teams.

Media and peer support. Your MVP candidate, Scottie Pippen. :oldlol::oldlol:


Yeah, I checked all that - pure lies

And Hakeem doesn't talk like that lol.. He actually worshipped MJ and said great things about MJ.. I'm not sure the word "Pippen" ever came out of his mouth.

And quoting Sam Smith means zero and makes my point - he's the original Jordan hater and liar, who wrote an entire book trashing Jordan.. nothing from him is credible

[3ba11]

I really hate to kind of agree with three ball but the bulls were not taken as seriously after Jordan left.and from what I remember they were on a mission the prove the haters wrong
I am happy to be proven wrong with this please. Lol
Then again no one expected the bulls to get that far so credit to pip for an amazing year


And to be clear, you aren't agreeing with me - you're agreeing with Penny Hardaway, who said that teams took the opportunity to stay out all night before facing the 94' Bulls

And you're right - Pippen had the best-ever surprise factor on his side in 94', yet he was still nowhere near actually winning the MVP, despite placing 3rd in voting - anyone legit like David Robinson or Barkley would EASILY WIN THE MVP in Pippen's shoes with such a massive surprise factor on their side..It proves that Pippen and his little 22 system points or transition was never "that guy".. Kukoc was actually the preferred option when it matters, further proving Pippen's ineligibility for MVP... and simply that no one thought about him that way.. Maybe if he had ever hit some big shots or "took over", then people would've felt differently

[sdot_thadon]

Yeah, I checked all that - pure lies

And Hakeem doesn't talk like that lol.. He actually worshipped MJ and said great things about MJ.. I'm not sure the word "Pippen" ever came out of his mouth.

And quoting Sam Smith means zero and makes my point - he's the original Jordan hater and liar, who wrote an entire book trashing Jordan.. nothing from him is credible

So what's your excuse for Hubie Brown basically leading off a national broadcast with sprinkling in pippens mvp status? Dream respected all good players, not just Mj you can find quotes of him being classy to plenty of top players from his time here. So Smith is hating on Jordan by polling MVP candidates?:oldlol: Pippen was hating on Mj too by being all that he was in 94 apparently.

You can lie through your teeth in every post, its all good. Becuase we all know how dishonest your discussions are. Theres like 1 million posts of examples of you providing false info. You've done a disservice to Mj. 16 year old me would revoke your stan membership and downgrade you to Harold Miner.

[gengiskhan]

Nobody was scared of Pippen.

absolutely, nobody feared Pippen.

[3ba11]

Nobody was scared of Pippen.

absolutely, nobody feared Pippen.


Bingo. Pip had no bag and no shot, so he couldn't embarrass anyone.. He couldn't even "fadeaway"... His low peak capability (just a dunker) meant that defenders were never worried about him "going off"

Ultimately, any gambler would love to have the inside information in the thread title (that opponents were out all night before playing the 94' Bulls, because no MJ to worry about).. Obviously, once opponents woke up in the playoffs and following season, the Bulls were 2nd Round losers and barely .500 when MJ returned in 95'.

Building around Pippen reduces a team's capacity to add talent, since any decent scorer supplants Pippen as 1st option.. This is why guys like Klay, Pippen and Middleton aren't considered franchise players that are tasked with building teams from scratch - Pippen was simply handed a fully-developed dynasty, which he cratered to barely .500 in less than 18 months.

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen still led the Bulls to a better record without Jordan in '95 than Jordan ever did without Pippen, true fact.

His '94 playoff run also absolutely obliterates anything Jordan ever did without Pippen, he musted a pathetic 1 playoff win in 5 seasons.

[Hey Yo]

If Pippen was as bad as 3ball claims, then that should prove how watered down the league really was for the entire 90's. How can a shit player finish 3rd in MVP voting and make 1st team on offense and defense if the league is allegedly full of legit NBA players?

[3ba11]

If Pippen was as bad as 3ball claims, then that should prove how watered down the league really was for the entire 90's. How can a shit player finish 3rd in MVP voting and make 1st team on offense and defense if the league is allegedly full of legit NBA players?


QUESTION: How was Pippen 3rd for MVP?

ANSWER:

1) 82 "letdown games ("fake" 55 wins) - see thread title - this produced a surprising 55 wins without MJ... Anyone else with this unprecedented level of SURPRISE FACTOR would've won the MVP going away - i.e. any real dude like Barkley or Robinson would be unanimous MVP with that kind of surprise factor, yet Pippen was never in the conversation as a legit candidate or chance to win.. Pippen's 3rd place finish despite goat surprise factor (and opponents staying out all night) confirms his low caliber

2) The "joint ticket" effect of the media voting for MJ/Pippen like a joint ticket - this inflated Pippen for EVERY season, not just 94' (where everyone still associated him with MJ even though MJ wasn't there).

3) Media awards meant nothing back then - no one even knew that Pippen finished 3rd until recently because media awards meant nothing back then and fans were unaware of them entirely - it was just a small cabal of media

[3ba11]

Pippen still led the Bulls to a better record without Jordan in '95 than Jordan ever did without Pippen, true fact.

His '94 playoff run also absolutely obliterates anything Jordan ever did without Pippen, he musted a pathetic 1 playoff win in 5 seasons.


If you were a gambler or stock trader, the very best kind of "insider knowledge" would be to know that the opponent was out all night the previous night.. Otoh, opponents literally went to bed early the night before facing MJ and the game was circled on the calendar from months before.. So that's a pretty big difference.. aka you're looking at 82 "letdown" games vs hungover opponents, and comparing to 82 "circle your calendar" games in the back end of a 3-peat

[j3lademaster]

If you were a gambler or stock trader, the very best kind of "insider knowledge" would be to know that the opponent was out all night the previous night.. Otoh, opponents literally went to bed early the night before facing MJ and the game was circled on the calendar from months before.. So that's a pretty big difference.. aka you're looking at 82 "letdown" games vs hungover opponents, and comparing to 82 "circle your calendar" games in the back end of a 3-peat
That's a good point. A lot of people(including myself a lot of times) get too comfortable with numbers and highlights and ignore the psychology that comes with the game these days.

[SouBeachTalents]

If you were a gambler or stock trader, the very best kind of "insider knowledge" would be to know that the opponent was out all night the previous night.. Otoh, opponents literally went to bed early the night before facing MJ and the game was circled on the calendar from months before.. So that's a pretty big difference.. aka you're looking at 82 "letdown" games vs hungover opponents, and comparing to 82 "circle your calendar" games in the back end of a 3-peat
Yes, literally all 82 opponents were out all night the night before playing the Bulls in '94, while they literally all went to bed at 8:30 the night before facing Jordan.

[j3lademaster]

Yes, literally all 82 opponents were out all night the night before playing the Bulls in '94, while they literally all went to bed at 8:30 the night before facing Jordan.

You can take that as an exaggeration, but I'm sure teams get up for Lebron Heat, Jordan Bulls, Durant GSW's. No one is going out of their way to scout the Wizards(sorry Tontoz)

[3ba11]

Yes, literally all 82 opponents were out all night the night before playing the Bulls in '94, while they literally all went to bed at 8:30 the night before facing Jordan.


Facing Jordan was like facing Babe Ruth or Ali.. i.e. family would fly in for the game and sit near the front row watching.. But when MJ suddenly retired right before the 94' regular season, those "Babe Ruth" games became the biggest letdown games of all time as family cancelled their travel plans.. No one gave 2 bird shits about the Bulls in 94', no matter how many games they were winning.. Everyone knew that whatever little bubble they had would burst, which is why no one ever referred to the team as "pursuing a 4-peat", even though they technically were.. The Overton Window on the Bulls winning without Jordan has always been firmly closed and remains to this day.. Btw, there's funny videos of Vernon Maxwell saying his wife would make fun of him for going to bed early the night before facing "daddy" MJ

[Hey Yo]

QUESTION: How was Pippen 3rd for MVP?

ANSWER:

1) 82 "letdown games ("fake" 55 wins) - see thread title - this produced a surprising 55 wins without MJ... Anyone else with this unprecedented level of SURPRISE FACTOR would've won the MVP going away - i.e. any real dude like Barkley or Robinson would be unanimous MVP with that kind of surprise factor, yet Pippen was never in the conversation as a legit candidate or chance to win.. Pippen's 3rd place finish despite goat surprise factor (and opponents staying out all night) confirms his low caliber

2) The "joint ticket" effect of the media voting for MJ/Pippen like a joint ticket - this inflated Pippen for EVERY season, not just 94' (where everyone still associated him with MJ even though MJ wasn't there).

3) Media awards meant nothing back then - no one even knew that Pippen finished 3rd until recently because media awards meant nothing back then and fans were unaware of them entirely - it was just a small cabal of media

If media awards meant nothing, then why did you defend MJ posting 500x in the thread that exposed his 88' faux DPOY award?

Can't claim how strong the league was at that time and then turn around and say a top 3 player in the league sucked.

You're talkin' out of your ass, chico.

[3ba11]

If media awards meant nothing, then why did you defend MJ posting 500x in the thread that exposed his 88' faux DPOY award?

Can't claim how strong the league was at that time and then turn around and say a top 3 player in the league sucked.

You're talkin' out of your ass, chico.


A lot of people never knew that MJ got dpoy

Again, it's only hindsight conversations that bring up MJ winning dpoy "i.e. and he even won dpoy!!".. But at the time, it was as important as when Michael Cooper won it - pretty meaningless because these awards hadn't been around long enough for fans to know about them or get used to the media telling them who the best players are... i.e. in previous eras, no one knew when the All-NBA teams were announced or that they even existed, whereas many of today's fans eagerly wait for the media to reveal their "all-important" All-NBA selections.. It's night and day...

And we know it's fraud and influenced by other factors like surprise factor and especially winning spotlight, aka career 2nd options like Pippen, Klay, Pau, Manu, and Parker need titles (winning spotlight) to make All-NBA.. And it's also based on favoritism, aka 2025 Lebron became the 1st player with negative plus-minus to make All-NBA

[sdot_thadon]

.
Halfway through this clip, Penny states that the 94' Bulls were the biggest letdown game of the year and teams stayed out all night before playing them because "no MJ":



https://m.youtube.com/shorts/2EY7yjROKC4


And of course the hungover Magic were blown away by the desperate Bulls

So it's all exactly like I've been saying... The "real" Bulls without MJ were barely .500 in 95' before MJ returned..

Pippen was never a "franchise player" that could build a team from scratch - he was simply handed the most well-oiled machine ever and fully-developed dynasty, which he cratered to .500 in less than 18 months)

Yet another low effort lie-fest. Do you ever fact check your own shit before you post?

FYI Op, Ron Harper didn't play for the 94 Bulls, he played for the 95 Bulls who had lost Horace. The 95 Bulls definitely werent the "real" bulls without Horace. They weren't even the "real" bulls when they got Michael back without Horace. Ain't that a bitch?

[Mask the Embiid]

Looking back, he did have a shot proving himself in the 2000 playoffs against the Lakers.... but that game 7 was almost as rigged as the one 2 years later against Sacramento....

...that said, I don't know why I still follow this league given how illegitimate it is.

Quick question about your avatar.

Why is an image of the bulls franchise in the mirror that lebron is looking at?

[Axe]

At least it's much better than jordan's wizards years.


whining nonstop
https://i.ibb.co/JmpGnKz/IMG-20230528-095117.jpg