things lebron CAN'T do

[3ba11]

* Reliable FT shooting

* Low turnover player

* Clutch reputation (low efficiency in clutch-time & game-winners, aka 0-29)

* no bag - weak off-the-cuff scoring instinct and no elite post game/moves

* move or score well off screens, aka can't play off-guard

* ball movement system (he needs the ball in his hands/ball-dominant offense to achieve his best numbers)

* elite chemistry/fits, aka long list of bad fits (he turns everyone into spot-up shooter, aka increases their assisted buckets/spot-up role, thereby lowering their assists)

* have a high-assist team (because he lowers all his teammates' assists, aka hogs the assists)

* Not have an Achilles Heel of inferior ball movement (every playoff series loss shows deficits in team assists, so the catalyst in every loss is inferior ball movement/team assists)

* "Get hot" and command doubles - his field goals are mostly drives and not jumpers, so teams meet him at the rim with multiple defenders and don't need to get the ball out of his hands on the perimeter like they do for a hot jumpshooter)

* Instill fear (doesn't get hot/command doubles, and he's a "nice guy" - no assassin mentality.. and no bag - he isn't embarrassing anyone)

* defend guys off screens (too bulky to guard Klay or Reggie Miller, aka SG's)

* Be tough (don't flop, collude, whine, or load manage)


* beat MJ in most categories:



PPG, offensive rebounds, SPG, BPG, FT shooting, TO's, possessions used (usage), efficiency per possession (ORTG), PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, plus-minus, raptor, titles, FMVP, MVP, DPOY, All-Defense, scoring titles, dunk champ

[1987_Lakers]

And still the GOAT.

[SouBeachTalents]

* Stop consuming OP's life

[3ba11]

* Stop consuming OP's life


You guys take it so personal that I proved Lebron is overrated.

And you post on this forum and others, so you're projecting

You also watch the games, coverage and fraud, and get all your opinions from buffoons on TV.. That's childish.. trix are for kids

[RRR3]

OP is too scared to argue about Kobe versus Jokic in my thread. He knows it would expose him as a hypocrite.

[SouBeachTalents]

You guys take it so personal that I proved Lebron is overrated.

And you post on this forum and others, so you're projecting

You also watch the games, coverage and fraud, and get all your opinions from buffoons on TV.. That's childish.. trix are for kids
Yes, the guy who's devoted his life to discussing LeBron and makes threads like these certainly doesn't take it personally :lol

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?507562-I-honestly-hate-Lebron-and-think-he-represents-the-downfall-of-society

[3ba11]

Yes, the guy who's devoted his life to discussing LeBron and makes threads like these certainly doesn't take it personally :lol

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?507562-I-honestly-hate-Lebron-and-think-he-represents-the-downfall-of-society


I don't - I'm the poster that pisses people off like you, who take it personally by whining itt

[RRR3]

I don't - I'm the poster that pisses people off like you, who take it personally by whining itt
You're literally the whiniest poster on here.

[sdot_thadon]

The hilarious thing is there's a 10 to 20 minute highlight reel out there debunking nearly any bullet point op can conceive. Hes a lost soul at this point.

[SouBeachTalents]

Literally makes a thread titled I hate LeBron.

"I don't even take it personally guys" :lol

[Tavr]

"no bag - weak off-the-cuff scoring instinct and no elite post game/moves"

Yeah its pretty wild that at one point Popovich dared LeBron to shoot...and it actually worked. :lol To LeBron's credit though he's improved his jumper with age, especially as a Laker.

Here are his shooting splits last season:

3-pointers: 37.6%
Mid-range (20–24 feet): 53.3%
Mid-range (15–19 feet): 42.9%

[sdot_thadon]

Yeah its pretty wild that at one point Popovich dared LeBron to shoot...and it actually worked. :lol To LeBron's credit though he's improved his jumper with age, especially as a Laker.

Here are his shooting splits last season:

3-pointers: 37.6%
Mid-range (20–24 feet): 53.3%
Mid-range (15–19 feet): 42.9%

Perception vs. Reality is my best guess. Theres long ass videos on YouTube of him doing any amd every basketball "bag" move known to man lol. Its actually impressive he worked on his game enough to do these moves despite not necessarily "needing" them to get his buckets. If you've watched his career the whole way you can see the older he got the more "bag" hes used. Imo a function of slowing down a bit as far as athleticism and stamina is concerned.

[3ba11]

Yeah its pretty wild that at one point Popovich dared LeBron to shoot...and it actually worked. :lol To LeBron's credit though he's improved his jumper with age, especially as a Laker.

Here are his shooting splits last season:

3-pointers: 37.6%
Mid-range (20–24 feet): 53.3%
Mid-range (15–19 feet): 42.9%


I don't think that addresses any of the issues in the post you quoted

Regarding his mid-range stats as a Laker - on what volume???... It's a huge liability because he can't rely on it consistently to shoot over packed paints, thereby needing a drive-heavy attack that relies on spacing. . There's a reason why SGA won with 30% three-peat shooting as a team (bad spacing) - it's because he could just shoot over traffic with high-volume mid-range... This contrasts with Lebron, where mid-range isn't an option on most possessions - he simply isn't "lights out" or anywhere near, as required to shoot mid-range at meaningful volumes, thereby not needing spacing..

I actually forgot to add "not need spacing" to the OP.. I think I left out mid-range entirely

[Tavr]

I don't think that addresses any of the issues in the post you quoted

Regarding his mid-range stats as a Lakers - on what volume???... It's a huge liability because he can't rely on it to consistently shoot over packed paints, thereby needing a drive-heavy attack that's relies on spacing. spacing for his drives... There's a reason why SGA won with 30% three-peat shooting - it's because he could just shoot over traffic with high-volume mid-range... This contrasts with Lebron, where mid-range isn't an option on most possessions - he simply isn't "lights out" or anywhere near, as required to shoot mid-range at meaningful volumes, thereby not needing spacing..

I actually forgot to add "not need spacing" to the OP.. I think I left out mid-range entirely

So by "no bag" you didn't mean getting your shot off? :confusedshrug: It wasn't my intention to misquote you. My fault bud. Maybe this bullet point was more fitting:


* "Get hot" and command doubles - his field goals are mostly drives and not jumpers, so teams meet him at the rim with multiple defenders and don't need to get the ball out of his hands on the perimeter like they do for a hot jumpshooter)

I'd have to check the volume, but these numbers were pulled off statmuse. Still, nobody would really deny LeBron got better at shooting. We could argue the impact it carries, but like sdotdon mentioned, skill improvement should be a natural progression with age. At this juncture, LeBron relies less on innate athleticism.

[RRR3]

So by "no bag" you didn't mean getting your shot off? :confusedshrug: It wasn't my intention to misquote you. My fault bud. Maybe this bullet point was more fitting:



I'd have to check the volume, but these numbers were pulled off statmuse. Still, nobody would really deny LeBron got better at shooting. We could argue the impact it carries, but like sdotdon mentioned, skill improvement should be a natural progression with age. At this juncture, LeBron relies less on innate athleticism.
I guess you’re new here but OP is a notorious troll. Just a heads up.

[3ba11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl9pSJYPb40






So by "no bag" you didn't mean getting your shot off? :confusedshrug:





You don't need a bag to get your shot off - the value of a bag is unpredictability/diversity, which allows for better fits with teammates (not cratering Bosh/Love/Jamison/Hughes/Ingram)... The diversity also allows capacity for a wider range of offenses.. The best "bags" are also "expert jumpshooters", aka over 50% of their attempts are jumpshots at good efficiency - essentially their jumper gets hot every game, aka Curry, Harden, MJ, Kobe, SGA, etc.. Furthermore, some of these guys have off-ball bag and can score off-screens like Curry, MJ, Kobe, and KD - this allow ball movement systems, aka dynasty-ball.






I'd have to check the volume, but these numbers were pulled off statmuse. Still, nobody would really deny LeBron got better at shooting. We could argue the impact it carries, but like sdotdon mentioned, skill improvement should be a natural progression with age. At this juncture, LeBron relies less on innate athleticism.


zero impact because it's insuffficient volume to consistently shoot over defenses and therefore not need driving lanes./spacing... LeDrive's need for spacing is a weakness, and it's tied to his drive-heavy game and lack of jumpshooting volume.. Look at how 45 wins in 2008 turned into 66 when LeDrive got the all-star spacing he needs.. A bricklaying Pippen would never win 66 with Lebron - Pippene confessed to Rachel Nichols that he didn't work in Houston because he can't provide spacing (shoot threes).. Let me know if you need the link

[3ba11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl9pSJYPb40&t=03m03s






So by "no bag" you didn't mean getting your shot off? :confusedshrug:





You don't need a bag to get your shot off - the value of a bag is unpredictability/diversity, which allows for better fits with teammates (not cratering Bosh/Love/Jamison/Hughes/Ingram)... The diversity also allows capacity for a wider range of offenses.. The best "bags" are also "expert jumpshooters", aka over 50% of their attempts are jumpshots at good efficiency - essentially their jumper gets hot every game, aka Curry, Harden, MJ, Kobe, SGA, etc.. Furthermore, some of these guys have off-ball bag and can score off-screens like Curry, MJ, Kobe, and KD - this allow ball movement systems, aka dynasty-ball.






I'd have to check the volume, but these numbers were pulled off statmuse. Still, nobody would really deny LeBron got better at shooting. We could argue the impact it carries, but like sdotdon mentioned, skill improvement should be a natural progression with age. At this juncture, LeBron relies less on innate athleticism.


the marginal improvement has zero impact because it's insuffficient volume to consistently shoot over defenses and therefore not need driving lanes./spacing... LeDrive's need for spacing is a weakness, and it's tied to his drive-heavy game and lack of jumpshooting volume..

Look at how 45 wins in 2008 turned into 66 when LeDrive got the all-star spacing he needs.. A bricklaying Pippen would never win 66 with Lebron - Pippene confessed to Rachel Nichols that he didn't work in Houston because he can't provide spacing (shoot threes).. Let me know if you need the link

Btw, the proof is that Lebron was a big negative last year

[Tavr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl9pSJYPb40


You don't need a bag to get your shot off - the value of a bag is unpredictability/diversity, which allows for better fits with teammates (not cratering Bosh/Love/Jamison/Hughes/Ingram)... The diversity also allows capacity for a wider range of offenses.. The best "bags" are also "expert jumpshooters", aka over 50% of their attempts are jumpshots at good efficiency - essentially their jumper gets hot every game, aka Curry, Harden, MJ, Kobe, SGA, etc.. Furthermore, some of these guys have off-ball bag and can score off-screens like Curry, MJ, Kobe, and KD - this allow ball movement systems, aka dynasty-ball.

zero impact because it's insuffficient volume to consistently shoot over defenses and therefore not need driving lanes./spacing... LeDrive's need for spacing is a weakness, and it's tied to his drive-heavy game and lack of jumpshooting volume.. Look at how 45 wins in 2008 turned into 66 when LeDrive got the all-star spacing he needs.. A bricklaying Pippen would never win 66 with Lebron - Pippene confessed to Rachel Nichols that he didn't work in Houston because he can't provide spacing (shoot threes).. Let me know if you need the link

I would argue if you're a consistent top scorer in the NBA (by averages, totals or whatever), you need some kind of "bag". There are levels to this and I wont say his "bag" is on Kyrie or SGA footing. Definitely not. Initially I asked you for more clarification and you provided that, so thanks. We seem to have different basketball terminology, but do agree on many things.

The link to LeBron's jumpshot volume would be great. Thanks in advance.

[k0kakw0rld]

You guys take it so personal that I proved Lebron is overrated.

And you post on this forum and others, so you're projecting

You also watch the games, coverage and fraud, and get all your opinions from buffoons on TV.. That's childish.. trix are for kids
You think about him 24/7 that's alarming. We don't actually give a fvck. Nothing you will post will make us change our minds. Get that in your head and disappear.

[Full Court]

What's funny is that this thread is full of Bronie fluffers throwing bitch fits, yet not one of them can actually challenge any of the points that OP made.

3ball over here slaying bodies yet again. :lol

[sdot_thadon]

What's funny is that this thread is full of Bronie fluffers throwing bitch fits, yet not one of them can actually challenge any of the points that OP made.

3ball over here slaying bodies yet again. :lol
Correction nobody can be bothered to refute every stupid post op comes up with. Especially when they are all so easily debunkable one has to wonder why he even attempted it. Almost every "point" op made is easily nuked with a low effort search bar entry on YouTube. And youre one of few posters here in the running to be more of an idiot than 3ball. Let that sink in.

[3ba11]

I would argue if you're a consistent top scorer in the NBA (by averages, totals or whatever), you need some kind of "bag". There are levels to this and I wont say his "bag" is on Kyrie or SGA footing. Definitely not. Initially I asked you for more clarification and you provided that, so thanks. We seem to have different basketball terminology, but do agree on many things.

The link to LeBron's jumpshot volume would be great. Thanks in advance.


Kareem just had the skyhook and Lebron has the stiff arm

aka no bag

This isn't a "bag" compared to guys that actually have bags like Hakeem, MJ, Curry, or Kobe

And you can find Kobe's jumpshooting stats here (1700 attempts in the 06' season):

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular+Season


And Lebron's here (680 attempts of "improved jumpsuit" in 2025 regular season):

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular+Season


Lebron's makes about 300 jumpers per year, compared to 50-700 for Kobe.. Lebron shoots 37% for his career outside of 5 feet (not top 10 caliber for a perimeter player)

[RRR3]

Correction nobody can be bothered to refute every stupid post op comes up with. Especially when they are all so easily debunkable one has to wonder why he even attempted it. Almost every "point" op made is easily nuked with a low effort search bar entry on YouTube. And youre one of few posters here in the running to be more of an idiot than 3ball. Let that sink in.
3ball is dumb but you at least can tell the guy can function in daily life. Full Court though? He seems like he just stands there drooling.

[Tavr]

Kareem just had the skyhook and Lebron has the stiff arm

aka no bag

This isn't a "bag" compared to guys that actually have bags like Hakeem, MJ, Curry, or Kobe

And you can find Kobe's jumpshooting stats here (1700 attempts in the 06' season):

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular+Season


And Lebron's here (680 attempts of "improved jumpsuit" in 2025 regular season):

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular+Season


Lebron's makes about 300 jumpers per year, compared to 50-700 for Kobe.. Lebron shoots 37% for his career outside of 5 feet (not top 10 caliber for a perimeter player)

So maybe I asked this earlier, but what's a "bag" to you? Me? I've recognized it as exhibiting offensive skill en route to scoring. On top of Kareem's skyhook, he also had a respectable midrange game and Wilt-like fadeaway from about 15 feet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RARBlik4bnU

The first page of this thread, I did mention levels and that everyones "bag" wasn't equal. Nobody claimed KAJ was as skilled as the guys you listed. :confusedshrug:

I appreciate you pulling up the volume though. Good stuff. While LeBron's jumpshot by the numbers has definitely improved, the attempts are a bit lower than I expected. So you were correct there (which also supports your "effectiveness" argument). I'm not sure comparing him to Kobe is your best recourse though. Is anyone foolish enough to think LeBron>Kobe at jumpshooting? :lol

[Wally450]

Thread cliffs: OP is obsessed with LeBron.

[beasted]

What Lebron also can't do is inspire people to wear his shoes. Jordan, Kobe, KD, etc have always been laughingly ahead of Bran.

Seems like a minor thing, but speaks to the overall influence and impact on the game. Literally nobody is trying to play like him or mimic him unless they are poking fun at his awkward run or teasing by looking down at their hands before shooting, LMAO.

[j3lademaster]

What Lebron also can't do is inspire people to wear his shoes. Jordan, Kobe, KD, etc have always been laughingly ahead of Bran.

Seems like a minor thing, but speaks to the overall influence and impact on the game. Literally nobody is trying to play like him or mimic him unless they are poking fun at his awkward run or teasing by looking down at their hands before shooting, LMAO.

Kobe has the greatest shoe line of all time.

[beasted]

Kobe has the greatest shoe line of all time.

Even if we put aside Jordan and Kobe due to longevity, why are more NBA players wearing KD and Booker's shoes?

[j3lademaster]

Even if we put aside Jordan and Kobe due to longevity, why are more NBA players wearing KD and Booker's shoes?

Because they’re nice shoes? Why are they wearing Sabrina’s? I had the Sabrina1’s for a few years and thought they were Serena Williams shoes until Caitlyn Clark made the wnba a thing. Now I know who Sabrina is and that she’s incredibly cringe and unlikable.

[sdot_thadon]

What Lebron also can't do is inspire people to wear his shoes. Jordan, Kobe, KD, etc have always been laughingly ahead of Bran.

Seems like a minor thing, but speaks to the overall influence and impact on the game. Literally nobody is trying to play like him or mimic him unless they are poking fun at his awkward run or teasing by looking down at their hands before shooting, LMAO.

Honestly aside from a few designs Lebron's kicks ain't all that. The Air Jordan line's designer was a genius and made several timeless designs ill still rock Aj1 or 11 as easily as a pair of chucks. Lebrons line has always been tech focused and usually has cutting edge shoe science but for the most part they dont work with regular clothes. Hell imo almost no modern basketball kicks are suitable for casual wear. Thats probably why their stock has been dropping.

[Full Court]

Correction nobody can be bothered to refute every stupid post op comes up with. Especially when they are all so easily debunkable one has to wonder why he even attempted it. Almost every "point" op made is easily nuked with a low effort search bar entry on YouTube. And youre one of few posters here in the running to be more of an idiot than 3ball. Let that sink in.

And yet not a single one of you Bronie fluffers can do it. :roll:

I see a bunch of snivelling and melting down, and not a single bit of refuting.

Truth sure must hurt.

:lebronamazed:

[sdot_thadon]

And yet not a single one of you Bronie fluffers can do it. :roll:

I see a bunch of snivelling and melting down, and not a single bit of refuting.

Truth sure must hurt.

:lebronamazed:

Honestly most of these arguments are barely worth the effort people give them the 1st time, before the rehash thread one week later.. Pure attention charity. And you guys get so upset over Lebron being great at basketball and that somebody somehow has to "prove it" to you. Foh man, go search it your damn self if youre stupid enough to believe your takes. The fact that many posters point you in that direction means its out there for you to see.

[Full Court]

Honestly most of these arguments are barely worth the effort people give them the 1st time, before the rehash thread one week later.. Pure attention charity. And you guys get so upset over Lebron being great at basketball and that somebody somehow has to "prove it" to you. Foh man, go search it your damn self if youre stupid enough to believe your takes. The fact that many posters point you in that direction means its out there for you to see.

And yet there's three pages of you guys getting upset about it. :lol

[sdot_thadon]

And yet there's three pages of you guys getting upset about it. :lol

Only probably one guy in this thread has given a reply more than a couple lines long on the actual topic. So "3 pages" of upset is kinda pushing it.

[Tavr]

Only probably one guy in this thread has given a reply more than a couple lines long on the actual topic

Guilty as charged. But...typing out more than a sentence on here means you're upset? Lol that's wild.

3ball and I simply disagree on verbiage. His conclusions are pretty accurate though. I also appreciate the fact he can talk hoops without number crunching :lol

[Full Court]

And still the GOAT.


* Stop consuming OP's life


OP is too scared to argue about Kobe versus Jokic in my thread. He knows it would expose him as a hypocrite.


Yes, the guy who's devoted his life to discussing LeBron and makes threads like these certainly doesn't take it personally :lol

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?507562-I-honestly-hate-Lebron-and-think-he-represents-the-downfall-of-society


You're literally the whiniest poster on here.


The hilarious thing is there's a 10 to 20 minute highlight reel out there debunking nearly any bullet point op can conceive. Hes a lost soul at this point.


Literally makes a thread titled I hate LeBron.

"I don't even take it personally guys" :lol


I guess you’re new here but OP is a notorious troll. Just a heads up.

^Just from the first page. :lol

As I said, a bunch of Bronie fluffers melting down, and no one able to refute a single one of 3balls points.

Tavr is actually engaging in intelligent conversation.

[sdot_thadon]

Guilty as charged. But...typing out more than a sentence on here means you're upset? Lol that's wild.

3ball and I simply disagree on verbiage. His conclusions are pretty accurate though. I also appreciate the fact he can talk hoops without number crunching :lol

Nothing wrong with that. I actually enjoy decent discussions. As far as 3ball goes everyone has had these debates with him to exhaustion so they don't often give serious replies anymore. I'll engage from time to time myself but I cant do the lying propaganda shit lol.

[sdot_thadon]

^Just from the first page. :lol

As I said, a bunch of Bronie fluffers melting down, and no one able to refute a single one of 3balls points.

Tavr is actually engaging in intelligent conversation.

Bruh there's literally nothing to refute. Hes listing things that for the most part we've all seen Lebron do. Why refute something thats obsessively obtuse when anyone with youtube Google can see these things?