Luka: I wait 2 secs until help defender vacate paint due to defensve 3 - THEN I DRIVE

[3ba11]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqzkIR0Zrm8&t=05m03s

Defensive 3 seconds empties the paint and that's if the spacing/three-point shooting hasn't pulled all the defenders out already

Btw, the top 5 scorers today are 1-way players that play 60-70 games and about 6 back-to-backs, while 87' MJ played 82 games as a 2-way player and 25 back-to-backs.. This is from the video

[HylianNightmare]

Alright

[nayte]

Smart play

[RRR3]

3ball: sob sob sob I can’t stand today’s NBA because MJ wouldn’t even be top 25 in the league now with his outdated primitive skillset.

[nayte]

3ball: sob sob sob I can’t stand today’s NBA because MJ wouldn’t even be top 25 in the league now with his outdated primitive skillset.

Do you think it's outdated ? Or you just teasing 3 ball
To add. I haven't looked at numbers so can be wrong but it seems like the 3 ball drops in playoffs and finals

[tontoz]

Do you think it's outdated ? Or you just teasing 3 ball
To add. I haven't looked at numbers so can be wrong but it seems like the 3 ball drops in playoffs and finals

That is true. The value of midrange shots goes up in the playoffs when good looks from 3 are harder to get.

OP is a clown but actually has a legit point here. Let's not forget that MJ was a major threat taking it to the rim, even during his 2nd 3peat, and the most efficient shots are still at the rim and the foul line.

[sdot_thadon]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqzkIR0Zrm8&t=05m03s

Defensive 3 seconds empties the paint and that's if the spacing/three-point shooting hasn't pulled all the defenders out already

Btw, the top 5 scorers today are 1-way players that play 60-70 games and about 6 back-to-backs, while 87' MJ played 82 games as a 2-way player and 25 back-to-backs.. This is from the video

Precisely why guys were considered washed up by their mid 30s back then.

[j3lademaster]

Precisely why guys were considered washed up by their mid 30s back then.

You can’t play those minutes and 82 game seasons anymore because everything is constant movement now, it’s why guys are getting hurt all time, especially bigs who have to hedge screens and close out shooters now compared to just camping the paint in the 90’s.

[sdot_thadon]

You can’t play those minutes and 82 game seasons anymore because everything is constant movement now, it’s why guys are getting hurt all time, especially bigs who have to hedge screens and close out shooters now compared to just camping the paint in the 90’s.

Exaclty.guys dont get to stand static on the perimeter and watch or stand in the paint and wait for the inevitable drive to the mid range or paiint and pass it off as defense quite as often as back then. And modern defenses, even bad ones require more switches, rotations and movement than the 90s. Ive always wondered why we turn a blind eye to the requirements of defense in thks era.

[Full Court]

3ball: sob sob sob I can’t stand today’s NBA because MJ wouldn’t even be top 25 in the league now with his outdated primitive skillset.

Way to show off your abysmally low IQ. The way the game is stacked in favor of offense these days, Jordan would average 45 ppg a game.

And he's still ranked above your precious Bronie, so suck on that for a while. :lol

[RRR3]

Way to show off your abysmally low IQ. The way the game is stacked in favor of offense these days, Jordan would average 45 ppg a game.

And he's still ranked above your precious Bronie, so suck on that for a while. :lol
I’m not even sure MJ would make the league today tbh. Couldn’t shoot 3s, could barely dribble….maybe he’d do ok in euroleague.

[Overdrive]

You need to be able to shoot 3s and pass in EL. That's where the Spurs early 10s equal opportunity offense came from.

Most likely he'd have to play 3x3 tournaments or put up quad doubles at the YMCA.

[RRR3]

You need to be able to shoot 3s and pass in EL. That's where the Spurs early 10s equal opportunity offense came from.

Most likely he'd have to play 3x3 tournaments or put up quad doubles at the YMCA.
True, but I was trying to show some respect to a legend.

[tontoz]

You need to be able to shoot 3s and pass in EL. That's where the Spurs early 10s equal opportunity offense came from.

Most likely he'd have to play 3x3 tournaments or put up quad doubles at the YMCA.



https://hosting.photobucket.com/61c9c379-dc9e-4342-8972-a3c17258e5a1/523278ee-9d23-4780-919a-d8210c8e886f.jpg

[3ba11]

You can’t play those minutes and 82 game seasons anymore because everything is constant movement now, it’s why guys are getting hurt all time, especially bigs who have to hedge screens and close out shooters now compared to just camping the paint in the 90’s.


Guards can average 10 RPG in today's game because the paint is empty and there's no bumping and grinding to get rebounds anymore - this should produce less injuries

Furthermore, guys don't have to move on offense anymore - they can camp at the 3-point line and wait for a kickout - most offenses are stagnant PNR spammers with guys camping behind the line or in the corners.. Otoh, previous eras had to run off a thousand screens to get three-point shots or any jumpshot.. Guys moved off screens more in previous eras than today's ball-dominant sets..

Btw, today's players have 20 less back-to-backs and they only play 60-70 games, and they also don't practice (walk-throughs after game days).. This is too much rest compared to 25 back-to-backs, 82 games and 82 hard practices (that are often harder than the games)

So there's no case for today's player - due to an ever-increasing coddling atmosphere, today's players have soft and brittle bones that break easily when any sort of duress is placed on them... Think about it - previous eras had 20 more back-to-backs, 82 games, bumping and grinding in packed paints, 82 extra hard practices, and no modern technology or nutrition.. And guys grew up playing playground ball (outside)!!.. Accordingly, previous eras were simply superior physically

[RRR3]

Guards can average 10 RPG in today's game because the paint is empty and there's no bumping and grinding to get rebounds anymore - this should produce less injuries

Furthermore, guys don't have to move on offense anymore - they can camp at the 3-point line and wait for a kickout - most offenses are stagnant PNR spammers with guys camping behind the line or in the corners.. Otoh, previous eras had to run off a thousand screens to get three-point shots or any jumpshot.. Guys moved off screens more in previous eras than today's ball-dominant sets..

Btw, today's players have 20 less back-to-backs and they only play 60-70 games, and they also don't practice (walk-throughs after game days).. This is too much rest compared to 25 back-to-backs, 82 games and 82 hard practices (that are often harder than the games)

So there's no case for today's player - due to an ever-increasing coddling atmosphere, today's players have soft and brittle bones that break easily when any sort of duress is placed on them... Think about it - previous eras had 20 more back-to-backs, 82 games, bumping and grinding in packed paints, 82 extra hard practices, and no modern technology or nutrition.. And guys grew up playing playground ball (outside)!!.. Accordingly, previous eras were simply superior physically
Imagine being dumb enough to believe athletes get worse over time with the advancements of medicine and technology and analytics. Genuinely it would be hilarious to see you watch MJ transported to today because your entire worldview would be shattered as he averaged 14 ppg on 48 TS%

[Tavr]

Imagine being dumb enough to believe athletes get worse over time with the advancements of medicine and technology and analytics. Genuinely it would be hilarious to see you watch MJ transported to today because your entire worldview would be shattered as he averaged 14 ppg on 48 TS%

You legitimately think a Peak MJ is only putting up 14 points a game? lol

[3ba11]

Imagine being dumb enough to believe athletes get worse over time



They clearly have weaker bones and ligaments, and the average height is shorter

I think the issue is not playing outside and high school coaches following the pros' lead and not practicing like we used to...

We used to practice 5-6 times per week and then play a game, and college frequently had 3-a-days... 3 full practices in 1 day.. today's 1-and done's don't practice nearly that much... And of course they never grew up playing outside.. It's an entire culture of coddling and letting these guys rest too much, so that now they can't play

[3ba11]

Imagine being dumb enough to believe athletes get worse over time



They clearly have weaker bones and ligaments, and the average height is shorter

I think the issue is not playing outside and high school coaches following the pros' lead and not practicing like we used to...

We used to practice 5-6 times per week and then play a game, and college frequently had 3-a-days... 3 full practices in 1 day.. today's 1-and done's don't practice nearly that much... And of course they never grew up playing outside.. It's an entire culture of coddling and letting these guys rest too much, so that now they can't play

[RRR3]

They clearly have weaker bones and ligaments, and the average height is shorter

I think the issue is not playing outside and high school coaches following the pros' lead and not practicing like we used to...

We used to practice 5-6 times per week and then play a game, and college frequently had 3-a-days... 3 full practices in 1 day.. today's 1-and done's don't practice nearly that much... And of course they never grew up playing outside.. It's an entire culture of coddling and letting these guys rest too much, so that now they can't play
No you idiot there are more injuries because there is so much more movement now. There was a lot of standing around in the 90s now it’s constant movement. I know you’re really stupid but at least try and think for once lol

[sdot_thadon]

They clearly have weaker bones and ligaments, and the average height is shorter

I think the issue is not playing outside and high school coaches following the pros' lead and not practicing like we used to...

We used to practice 5-6 times per week and then play a game, and college frequently had 3-a-days... 3 full practices in 1 day.. today's 1-and done's don't practice nearly that much... And of course they never grew up playing outside.. It's an entire culture of coddling and letting these guys rest too much, so that now they can't play

Your perspective, as usual, is narrow and close minded. Mj, the best player in the world didn't even seriously lift weights until several seasons into his career. I think he was even an Mvp before he starting taking lifting seriously. If thats the way the beat player operates, imagine the rest of the league in general. Also not taking into account that the guys now that make the NBA have been training since teen years or even before with professional trainers in some cases. Imagine getting prepped for the league from 13-14 years old. Also my take on the injuries is modern medicine and training techniques push the body beyond its limits in some cases. Perhaps these guys are over trained.


Imagine being dumb enough to believe athletes get worse over time with the advancements of medicine and technology and analytics.
Apparently every sport has advanced in skill and athletic ability over time except basketball and boxing fr. :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Apparently every sport has advanced in skill and athletic ability over time except basketball and boxing fr. :oldlol:
Basketball clearly peaked from 1991-1998.

[sdot_thadon]

Basketball clearly peaked from 1991-1998.

Clearly. Can players even dunk on NBA2k26?

[Overdrive]

They clearly have weaker bones and ligaments, and the average height is shorter


Players are getting shorter, because there was a time when being projected to be 7ft+ as a 16 yo was enough to have a college and NBA no matter how stiff you were. That just doesn't cut it anymore. You atleat have to be athletic enough to run in todays offense and play serviceable D to get consideration.

[j3lademaster]

Players are getting shorter, because there was a time when being projected to be 7ft+ as a 16 yo was enough to have a college and NBA no matter how stiff you were. That just doesn't cut it anymore. You atleat have to be athletic enough to run in todays offense and play serviceable D to get consideration.

That, and size/athleticism becomes a smaller and smaller factor the higher the skill level gets. If you look at every superstar in the 90's- MJ, Shaq, Drob, Hakeem, Malone etc- were all physical and athletic specimen. Today, you still have the super athletes like Lebron, Westbrook, Giannis etc; but you also have generally unathletic guys like Steph, Luka and Jokic in the mix as well.

[ralph_i_el]

He would have abused illegal defense back in the day too. Imagine having to defend Luka with less freedom to shade off your man.

[sdot_thadon]

He would have abused illegal defense back in the day too. Imagine having to defend Luka with less freedom to shade off your man.

I think guys that play that style of ball would be able to play that way maybe even a bit easier. Especially the ones with elite vision. They'll be able to see the defenses reactions coming from a mile away. And a defense with far less options of dealing with them at that.

[ralph_i_el]

I think guys that play that style of ball would be able to play that way maybe even a bit easier. Especially the ones with elite vision. They'll be able to see the defenses reactions coming from a mile away. And a defense with far less options of dealing with them at that.

Also, for Luka specifically....who in the league is better at dealing with a packed paint? He can have 2-3 guys around him, pick up his dribble, and he's still probably going to score in the paint off of strength and ball fakes.

[sdot_thadon]

Also, for Luka specifically....who in the league is better at dealing with a packed paint? He can have 2-3 guys around him, pick up his dribble, and he's still probably going to score in the paint off of strength and ball fakes.

And to boot Luka would be the size of most 80s-90s hed be outweighed by a few but his size is enough to compete.

[Axe]

1-9


OP is a clown but actually has a legit point here.
https://i.ibb.co/XZ5qVsYf/Screenshot-20250703-235925.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/RpQNPqx/IMG-20221122-211833.jpg)

[3ba11]

That, and size/athleticism becomes a smaller and smaller factor the higher the skill level gets. If you look at every superstar in the 90's- MJ, Shaq, Drob, Hakeem, Malone etc- were all physical and athletic specimen. Today, you still have the super athletes like Lebron, Westbrook, Giannis etc; but you also have generally unathletic guys like Steph, Luka and Jokic in the mix as well.


Previous eras had the same mix of athletes and "non" athletes

So that's a non point

[Baller234]

Getting rid of defensive three seconds is a must. Needs to happen now.

It was introduced to offset the zone, but teams rarely play zone now. They can't. Too many three point shooters.

Get rid of the defensive three seconds, allow a little more physicality, stop rewarding players for drawing and initiating contact, and the product would improve tremendously.

[RRR3]

Previous eras had the same mix of athletes and "non" athletes

So that's a non point
Luka is better than MJ. MJ today=worse shooting Malik Monk

[3ba11]

Your perspective, as usual, is narrow and close minded. Mj, the best player in the world didn't even seriously lift weights until several seasons into his career. I think he was even an Mvp before he starting taking lifting seriously. If thats the way the beat player operates, imagine the rest of the league in general. Also not taking into account that the guys now that make the NBA have been training since teen years or even before with professional trainers in some cases. Imagine getting prepped for the league from 13-14 years old. Also my take on the injuries is modern medicine and training techniques push the body beyond its limits in some cases. Perhaps these guys are over trained.


Apparently every sport has advanced in skill and athletic ability over time except basketball and boxing fr. :oldlol:


It has nothing to do with lifting weights

It has to do with growing up playing outside vs growing up never playing outside and therefore having weaker bones that can't handle trauma

It also has to do with barely practicing and building up resistance


These kids are simply weak and they complain when asked to carry a similar load to previous eras - they can't handle it

Btw, the point of the thread was initially today's open paint, which makes it the easiest era to score ever - this is according to Luka, Giannis and Jokic... These guys grew up in tougher formats overseas, so they became the best players.. Otoh, the American hands-off, spaced out beginner format produces weaker players (Ja, Ant, Tatum)..

Infact, this massive drop-off in the quality of American players (most of the NBA) confirms that today's era is much weaker - i.e. the best Americans today are Ant and Ja, which is NOTHING compared to Shaq, MJ, Malone, Barkley etc, etc, etc... It's not even close - Americans were far better at basketball in prior eras, which proves that the league is weaker overall than prior eras

[3ba11]

Luka is better than MJ. MJ today=worse shooting Malik Monk


Luka just lost in the 1st Round with your goat

Luka will provide another decade or so of ball-domination underachieving, and this will add to Lebron's 22 years to provide a massive sample of ball-dominance being an underachieving skillset

[RRR3]

Luka just lost in the 1st Round with your goat

Luka will provide another decade or so of ball-domination underachieving, and this will add to Lebron's 22 years to provide a massive sample of ball-dominance being an underachieving skillset
MJ played in a primitive era. If he had to play today I’m not even sure he’d make euro league. It’s comical you jerk off to an inferior era.

[3ba11]

If he had to play today .


any bum can dribble up and jack a 26 footer.. literally anyone that can walk

[RRR3]

any bum can dribble up and jack a 26 footer.. literally anyone that can walk
MJ couldn’t :(

29% from the normal 3PT line





On low volume


















:(

[julizaver]

Guards can average 10 RPG in today's game because the paint is empty and there's no bumping and grinding to get rebounds anymore - this should produce less injuries

Furthermore, guys don't have to move on offense anymore - they can camp at the 3-point line and wait for a kickout - most offenses are stagnant PNR spammers with guys camping behind the line or in the corners.. Otoh, previous eras had to run off a thousand screens to get three-point shots or any jumpshot.. Guys moved off screens more in previous eras than today's ball-dominant sets..

Btw, today's players have 20 less back-to-backs and they only play 60-70 games, and they also don't practice (walk-throughs after game days).. This is too much rest compared to 25 back-to-backs, 82 games and 82 hard practices (that are often harder than the games)

So there's no case for today's player - due to an ever-increasing coddling atmosphere, today's players have soft and brittle bones that break easily when any sort of duress is placed on them... Think about it - previous eras had 20 more back-to-backs, 82 games, bumping and grinding in packed paints, 82 extra hard practices, and no modern technology or nutrition.. And guys grew up playing playground ball (outside)!!.. Accordingly, previous eras were simply superior physically

We should also add that nowadays we have load management and also star players playing in 32 to 35 mpg with 36-37 mpg considered heavy minutes, while before 2010 star players played 40 + mpg in their prime. It is more about efficiency and with that playing time management the role of bench players or second unit increased over time. And good for that rules amendments few years ago because players like Harden, Doncic and Young abused them to the point of frustration with their unnatural moves searching for contact. Now the game is little bit more balanced than few years ago. And if you watched FIBA Eurobasket at the moment you can see how more packed is the paint and the more liberties the defensive players had. Still Giannis, Luka and Jokic dominate the opponents with spectacular performances.

[sdot_thadon]

It has nothing to do with lifting weights

It has to do with growing up playing outside vs growing up never playing outside and therefore having weaker bones that can't handle trauma

It also has to do with barely practicing and building up resistance


These kids are simply weak and they complain when asked to carry a similar load to previous eras - they can't handle it

Btw, the point of the thread was initially today's open paint, which makes it the easiest era to score ever - this is according to Luka, Giannis and Jokic... These guys grew up in tougher formats overseas, so they became the best players.. Otoh, the American hands-off, spaced out beginner format produces weaker players (Ja, Ant, Tatum)..

Infact, this massive drop-off in the quality of American players (most of the NBA) confirms that today's era is much weaker - i.e. the best Americans today are Ant and Ja, which is NOTHING compared to Shaq, MJ, Malone, Barkley etc, etc, etc... It's not even close - Americans were far better at basketball in prior eras, which proves that the league is weaker overall than prior eras
It definitely does. You dont get a faster/stronger generation without weights and training. Its literally called sports science now. They study ways to get more results and have tuned all the training for those purposes. Maybe a thing thats happened is the training has gotten more function focused and neglect strenghtening "unimportant" parts of the body
.
You may have a point about the playing indoor thing, but you have nothing to back it up besides feeling based on personal preference and past experience. And as I said guys may practice less day to day, but the mileage balances out from all the extra training and camps aau tourneys etc that kids now participate in compared to that generation. Think about how many guys make the league now and have stories about being in this guys camp and that guys camp. When parents in this generation get invested in their children's athletic future they send them to these camps and trainers and if they have experience themselves they also workout the kids themselves. So it's quite feasible that kids make the league or even college with way more miles already accumulated than those old world guys.

Those guys grew up overseas but save for Luka, became great once they learned in this format. Luka became even better although we'd heard of his potential ahead of time. Who was Joker before the NBA? Nobody here can really pretend they knew of him. And Giannis? :lol Giannis was a tall skinny prospect that became a monster here. Some can be owed to modern training and hard work, some due to coaching/development, and some to the refs deciding not to call him for carrying and traveling any more, thus allowing him to dribble and become an international problem. This version of Giannis is a monster in any era as long as they allow him to dribble lol.

[Lebron23]

Luka would 6-0 Michael Jordan just like what Bird did to him in the 1980's

[Full Court]

Luka would 6-0 Michael Jordan just like what Bird did to him in the 1980's

So LeShrivel had help that was better than Michael Jordan and STILL couldn't make it past the first round. :roll: Biggest underachiever of all time. He has stunted accomplishments just like you have stunted growth.


:lebroncry: