Just how good were the centers of the 1990s

[L.Kizzle]

Well, here are some numbers to show us just how good they were. I'm starting in the last full season of the 1980s and the first of the 2000s.

We're going to highlight every All-NBA Center during that time frame (1988-1989 thru 2000-2001.)
Then their individual accolades like MVPs, All-Stars, All-Defense, etc.

No one had over two consecutive All-NBA 1st team selections in a row.

A few of them even faced off in the Finals.

94 Finals - Ewing vs Hakeem
95 Finals - Shaq vs Hakeem
99 Finals - Ewing vs Robinson (tho Pat was injured)
01 Finals - Deke vs Shaq
And great playoff battles with Zo vs Ewing and Robinson vs Hakeem

Top Five MVP Voting and All-NBA selections (1989-2001)
1989
4 Ewing (All NBA 2 Team)
5 Olajuwon (All NBA 1 Team)
-
Robert Parish (All NBA 3 Team)

1990
5 Ewing (All NBA 1 Team)
-
Olajuwon (All NBA 2 Team)
Robinson (All NBA 3 Team)
1991
3 Robinson (All NBA 1 Team)
-
Ewing (All NBA 2 Team)
Olajuwon(All NBA 3 Team)

1992
3 Robinson (All NBA 1 Team - DPOY)
5 Ewing (All NBA 2 Team)
-
Brad Daugherty (All NBA 3 Team)

1993
2 Olajuwon (All NBA 1 Team - DPOY)
4 Ewing (All NBA 2 Team)
-
Robinson (All NBA 3 Team)

1994
MVP - Olajuwon (All NBA 1 Team - DPOY)
2 Robinson (All NBA 2 Team)
4 O'Neal (All NBA 3 Team)
5 Ewing

1995
MVP - Robinson (All NBA 1st Team)
2 O'Neal (All NBA 2 Team)
4 Ewing
5 Hakeem (All NBA 3 Team)
-
Mutombo (DPOY)

1996
2 Robinson (All NBA 1 Team)
4 Olajuwon (All NBA 2 Team)
-
O'Neal (All NBA 3 Team)

1997
Zero
Olajuwon (All NBA 1 Team)
Ewing (All NBA 2 Team)
O'Neal (All NBA 3 Team)
-
Mutombo (DPOY)

1998
4 O'Neal (All NBA 1 Team)
-
Robinson (All NBA 2 Team)
Dikembe Mutombo (All NBA 3 Team - DPOY)

1999
2 Mourning (All NBA 1 Team - DPOY)
-
O'Neal (All NBA 2 Team)
Olajuwon (All NBA 3 Team)

2000
MVP - O'Neal (All NBA 1 Team)
3 Mourning (All NBA 2 Team - DPOY)
-
Robinson (All NBA 3 Team)

2001
2 O'Neal (All NBA 3 Team)
-
Mutombo (All NBA 2 Team - DPOY)
Robinson (All NBA 3 Team)

Brad Daugherty
1x All-NBA 3
4x All Star 89; 91-93

Robert Parish
1x All NBA 3
2x All Stars 90-91

Alonzo Mourning
1x All NBA 1; 1x All NBA 2 (2x Top 5 MVP)
6x All Star 94-97; 00-01
2x DPOY; 2x All NBA D; 2x Block Leader

Dikembe Mutombo
1x All NBA 2; 2x All NBA 3
7x All Star 95-98; 00-01
5x All NBA D; 4x DPOY; 5x Block Leader; 2x Reb Leader

Patrick Ewing
1x All NBA 1; 4x All NBA 2 (6x Top 5 MVP)
9x All Star; 2x All D

Shaquille O'Neal
3x All NBA 1; 2x All NBA 2; 3x All NBA 3 (5x Top 5 MVP)
8x All Star 93-01
2x All D; 2x Scoring Leader

David Robinson
4x All NB 1; 2x All NBA 2; 4x All NBA 3 (5x Top 5 MVP)
10x All Star; 1x DPOY; 8x All D; 1x Scoring Leader; 1x Rebound Leader; 2x Block Leader

Hakeem Olajuwon
4x All NBA 1; 2x All NBA 2; 3x All NBA 3all nba 1 2 nba 2nd 3 3rd (5x Top 5 MVP)
8x All Star 89-90 92-97; 2x DPOY; 6x All D; 2x Reb Leader; 3x Block Leader

[L.Kizzle]

This also shows how underrated Ewing was and how overrated Shaq. Shaq didn't make an All-NBA 1st team until Ewing, Hakeem and Robinson got old.

Shaq was beat out by peak Zo for All-NBA 1st team in 1999.

[jlip]

This also shows how underrated Ewing was and how overrated Shaq. Shaq didn't make an All-NBA 1st team until Ewing, Hakeem and Robinson got old.

Shaq was beat out by peak Zo for All-NBA 1st team in 1999.

I think the bold part is a little misleading. Shaq entered the league seven and eight years after Ewing and Hakeem. When he played his first NBA game he was 20 years old. Both Hakeem and Ewing were 29 about to turn 30 and either already in or about to enter their peaks. While Robinson was a little younger than they were, he too was about to enter his peak shortly after Shaq entered the league. It's not surprising that a 21-24 year old would not be earning 1st team status over all time greats in their primes/ peaks in his first few years. Then, in '96 and '97 he missed roughly 30 games each season while those who made the all NBA teams over him played more than 70 games.

I can't speak with certainty, but I believe Zo beating out Shaq for All NBA 1st team honors in '99 was more the result of a combination of factors...

Shaq being suspended for a game due to his fight with Barkley hurting his image with voters.
The Heat ending the season with a slightly better record.
Zo's defensive dominance
The '99 lockout season was just strange in general being only 50 games.

[L.Kizzle]

I think the bold part is a little misleading. Shaq entered the league seven and eight years after Ewing and Hakeem. When he played his first NBA game he was 20 years old. Both Hakeem and Ewing were 29 about to turn 30 and either already in or about to enter their peaks. While Robinson was a little younger than they were, he too was about to enter his peak shortly after Shaq entered the league. It's not surprising that a 21-24 year old would not be earning 1st team status over all time greats in their primes/ peaks in his first few years. Then, in '96 and '97 he missed roughly 30 games each season while those who made the all NBA teams over him played more than 70 games.

I can't speak with certainty, but I believe Zo beating out Shaq for All NBA 1st team honors in '99 was more the result of a combination of factors...

Shaq being suspended for a game due to his fight with Barkley hurting his image with voters.
The Heat ending the season with a slightly better record.
Zo's defensive dominance
The '99 lockout season was just strange in general being only 50 games.
Shaq made his first All-NBA 1st Team in season 6. Russell in season 2. Wilt as a rookie (over Russell). Kareem in season 2 (over Wilt). Hakeem season 3 (over Kareem and Moses) and David Robinson season 2 (over Hakeem and Ewing).

[iamgine]

Shaq made his first All-NBA 1st Team in season 6. Russell in season 2. Wilt as a rookie (over Russell). Kareem in season 2 (over Wilt). Hakeem season 3 (over Kareem and Moses) and David Robinson season 2 (over Hakeem and Ewing).

But Shaq in his 3rd season made 2nd team over prime Hakeem, a guy who made 1st team in season 3 (over Kareem and Moses).

[Hey Yo]

Where's Rik Smits?

[L.Kizzle]

Where's Rik Smits?

I only included players who made at least one All-NBA Team

[Xiao Yao You]

This also shows how underrated Ewing was and how overrated Shaq. Shaq didn't make an All-NBA 1st team until Ewing, Hakeem and Robinson got old.

Shaq was beat out by peak Zo for All-NBA 1st team in 1999.

Always thought ewing was overrated. Below hakeem and robinson. On par with daugherty. Shaq was better from day 1

[L.Kizzle]

Always thought ewing was overrated. Below hakeem and robinson. On par with daugherty. Shaq was better from day 1

Imagine if Patrick Ewing had the team Brad Daugherty had. Mark Price; Larry Nance and Ron Harper or Greg Anthony, Charles Smith and Kenny Walker.

[Phoenix]

Always thought ewing was overrated. Below hakeem and robinson. On par with daugherty. Shaq was better from day 1

He was, but that doesn't make him overrated, and very clearly he was a tier above Daugherty. If you swapped them, Ewing on the Cavs makes that team way more dangerous and the defacto rival for the Bulls instead of the Knicks (Daugherty makes that team much less dangerous, especially defensively).

[sdot_thadon]

Pat may be slightly overrated because he gets lumped in with those guys that are better than him imo. However he went to battle with those guys countless times and held his own too. And that's without considering he dealt with enough early career knee issues to tank his potential. But yeah I imagine he could have won a chip with the 90s cavs around him instead of his Knicks squads, hell alot of guys could win with that type of talent around them. They just needed a strong leader.

[L.Kizzle]

Pat may be slightly overrated because he gets lumped in with those guys that are better than him imo. However he went to battle with those guys countless times and held his own too. And that's without considering he dealt with enough early career knee issues to tank his potential. But yeah I imagine he could have won a chip with the 90s cavs around him instead of his Knicks squads, he'll alot of guys could win with that type of talent around them.

Would say he did more than hold is own. Rik Smits held his own, Pat was right there. Hell, only 6 centers have more All-Star appearances then him.
Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Moses
Hakeem
Moses

[sdot_thadon]

Would say he did more than hold is own. Rik Smits held his own, Pat was right there. Hell, only 6 centers have more All-Star appearances then him.
Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Moses
Hakeem
Moses

Definitely, I just feel like he was the worst of those top guys in the 90s though.

[SouBeachTalents]

Peak for peak who do you guys think was better, Ewing or Dwight?

[Xiao Yao You]

Would say he did more than hold is own. Rik Smits held his own, Pat was right there. Hell, only 6 centers have more All-Star appearances then him.
Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Moses
Hakeem
Moses

Smits was pretty limited. Good offensive player. Not a great defender or rebounder

[sdot_thadon]

Peak for peak who do you guys think was better, Ewing or Dwight?

Ehh, im taking Pat becuase im not as confident in Dwight being the focal point of an offense. Pat had a low Post game and could face up, drive and probably most notably shoot pull up jumpers better than almost any center, while not being as dominant a defender as Dwight but still an elite one. Dwight is a top tier defensive anchor but dump the ball down to him and who knows what happens next lol. A 30 point game seems just as likely as a 12 point game with Howard.

[ImKobe]

Peak for peak who do you guys think was better, Ewing or Dwight?

Ewing easily.

[SouBeachTalents]

Ewing easily.
Ridiculous.

[Reggie43]

Smits was really good especially in the playoffs and probably could have developed into a more well rounded player without the foot issues that hampered his career.

[Reggie43]

https://youtu.be/giI0dXduTPc?si=KTGixmikwWrg6Dck

[Nowoco]

Ewing has probably the lowest reputation pound for pound of any superstar in NBA history and it's harsh and not very fair.

He's looked down on for three reasons.

1. He didn't win a ring (magnified by being on the Knicks)
2. He was overshadowed by other great centers who were better than him and won rings during the same period (Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq)
3. His reputation for choking and by the Knicks reaching the Finals without him

[Baller234]

I don't love that people universally accept that Ewing wasn't as good as D-Rob. Talent wise sure D-Rob had the edge but Ewing was way tougher imo and more of an emotional leader. Call me crazy but if you swap out D-Rob for Ewing on those Knicks teams I don't think they're as good.

I hold Ewing in high regard for the sheer fact that the Knicks were routinely the Bulls toughest opponent and Ewing was the leader on both sides of the floor. I don't get mad when someone puts D-Rob above him because that seems to be the conventional wisdom but I think they are closer than people think. D-Rob had all the talent in the world and was a freak but he didn't have that grit. Plus both of them have choke jobs on their resume so they even each other out there.

Lol if you have Dwight over Ewing just delete your account and log off because you shouldn't be talking basketball. Dwight feasted in an era when big men were starting to dwindle.

[Hey Yo]

https://youtu.be/giI0dXduTPc?si=KTGixmikwWrg6Dck

Nice... :applause:

[L.Kizzle]

Put some respect on Patrick Ewings name.
Six separate seasons he was top five in MVP voting on a league that included Bird, Magic, Jordan, Thomas, Malone, Barkley, Drexler and of course the centers already mentioned.

[pandiani17]

Put some respect on Patrick Ewings name.
Six separate seasons he was top five in MVP voting on a league that included Bird, Magic, Jordan, Thomas, Malone, Barkley, Drexler and of course the centers already mentioned.

Agree. I think not winning a ring really hurt his standing, and is the reason why he is rated below David Robinson, for example.

[L.Kizzle]

Agree. I think not winning a ring really hurt his standing, and is the reason why he is rated below David Robinson, for example.
I think it's the MVP Award. Barkley and Malone ain't win either.

[sdot_thadon]

Also think the New York media of the time magnified his coming up short. He was literally Olajuwon fingertips from the title at the end of game 6. In that way I think sports reporting and history has always been unfair to the loser.

[Nowoco]

He was literally Olajuwon fingertips from the title at the end of game 6. In that way I think sports reporting and history has always been unfair to the loser.

He also shot 36% that series. Ewing's tainted legacy might be unfair but his reputation as a choker isn't.

[Xiao Yao You]

Agree. I think not winning a ring really hurt his standing, and is the reason why he is rated below David Robinson, for example.

I put him below robinson because he wasnt as good.

[L.Kizzle]

Ewing had the worst supporting cast of the Superstars of the 90s. His best teammate as his peak was John Starks or Charles Oakley.

Him or Drexler had the worst help.

Hakeem came in with Sampson and left with Clyde.
Ewing wasn't even an All-Star anymore when Sprewell came along.

[L.Kizzle]

Ewing had the worst supporting cast of the Superstars of the 90s. His best teammate as his peak was John Starks or Charles Oakley.

Him or Drexler had the worst help.

Hakeem came in with Sampson and left with Clyde.
Ewing wasn't even an All-Star anymore when Sprewell came along.

[Baller234]

Ewing had the worst supporting cast of the Superstars of the 90s. His best teammate as his peak was John Starks or Charles Oakley.

Him or Drexler had the worst help.

Hakeem came in with Sampson and left with Clyde.
Ewing wasn't even an All-Star anymore when Sprewell came along.

Eh he didn't have any HOFers but those Knicks teams were pretty good bro. I would argue that in 92 they were better than the bulls roster from top to bottom.

MJ & Pip were superstars and you had Ho but the rest of the team was role players. The Knicks had Ewing, Mark Jackson, X-Man, Gerald Wilkins, Starks, Oak, Mason.

On paper that's a much better squad than the 92 Bulls in terms of depth.

[SouBeachTalents]

Ewing had the worst supporting cast of the Superstars of the 90s. His best teammate as his peak was John Starks or Charles Oakley.

Him or Drexler had the worst help.

Hakeem came in with Sampson and left with Clyde.
Ewing wasn't even an All-Star anymore when Sprewell came along.
They were literally a play away from winning the title with him averaging a mind blowing 19 ppg on 39%TS in the Finals while getting absolutely eviscerated by Hakeem. His supporting cast must've been pretty good to have the team on the doorstep of a title with their star player performing that abysmally offensively.

[Carbine]

When I see statements like Hakeem came in with Sampson and left with Clyde it's so obvious there is an agenda at play.

What about the 7 to 8 years between that, a significant amount of Hakeem prime/peak......

[tpols]

They were literally a play away from winning the title with him averaging a mind blowing 19 ppg on 39%TS in the Finals while getting absolutely eviscerated by Hakeem. His supporting cast must've been pretty good to have the team on the doorstep of a title with their star player performing that abysmally offensively.

2nd option John Starks 17 ppg on 36% shooting and 2/18 in Game 7 isn't pretty good help. Hakeems help in that specific Finals was just that bad.

Besides most of Ewings impact came on defense. Hes one of the best defensive centers of all time and thats what the Knicks won on ~ their defense.

[Nowoco]

2nd option John Starks 17 ppg on 36% shooting and 2/18 in Game 7 isn't pretty good help.

Conveniently cherry pick one of the worst Finals games ever. Starks dropped 27 with 5/9 3P in game 6. The reason they were a shot away from winning the chip was Starks' performance in that game.

[tpols]

Conveniently cherry pick one of the worst Finals games ever. Starks dropped 27 with 5/9 3P in game 6. The reason they were a shot away from winning the chip was Starks' performance in that game.

2/18 in an NBA Finals game 7 ain't cherrypicking. He shot 36% on the series too. Legitimately has an argument for worst playoff game of all time so miss me with the bullshit mate. That ain't good help.

Hakeem didn't have good help in 1994 either. In 1995 he did though, Clyde was a beast in those playoffs. Ewing never played with anybody as good as Clyde Drexler.

[Xiao Yao You]

2nd option John Starks 17 ppg on 36% shooting and 2/18 in Game 7 isn't pretty good help. Hakeems help in that specific Finals was just that bad.

Besides most of Ewings impact came on defense. Hes one of the best defensive centers of all time and thats what the Knicks won on ~ their defense.

He was known as a defensive player coming in to the league. I thought he became a better offensive player

[tpols]

He was known as a defensive player coming in to the league. I thought he became a better offensive player

I mean... he hung some great playoff series offensively. 25/10 type stuff in a brutally low scoring era. Hakeem is also one of the best defenders ever. He had his worst series vs him for a reason.

[L.Kizzle]

Patrick played with Bernard King for 0 games tho they were on the same roster for a few seasons.
Past peaks Sprewell and Larry Johnson were his top guys Allen Houston was a good pickup.

[Axe]

Ewing has probably the lowest reputation pound for pound of any superstar in NBA history and it's harsh and not very fair.

He's looked down on for three reasons.

1. He didn't win a ring (magnified by being on the Knicks)
2. He was overshadowed by other great centers who were better than him and won rings during the same period (Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq)
3. His reputation for choking and by the Knicks reaching the Finals without him
He's talented. But it's a huge sin to not have won any rings at all in the diluted, expansion era.


loser
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=827668&dateline=1624237688&type=thumb (https://i.ibb.co/RpQNPqx/IMG-20221122-211833.jpg)