Lebron vs Jokic - Age 22-29

[StrongLurk]

Regular Season

Lebron: 604 games, 29.3 PER, 59.8 TS%, .273 WS/48, 10.4 BPM, 73.1 VORP, 4 MVPs, 2 rings, 2 FMVPs.

Jokic: 592 games, 29.3 PER, 64.1 TS%, .270 WS/48, 11.1 BPM, 65.9 VORP, 3 MVPs, 1 ring, 1 FMVPs.

Playoffs

Lebron: 145 games, 28.1 PER, 58 TS%, .252 WS/48, 10.3 BPM

Jokic: 94 games, 28.5 PER, 61.2 TS%, .231 WS/48, 10.8 BPM

Fascinating how similar their numbers are. I've made it known that Jokic was already a top 10 player to ever play the game by the end of 2024 (based on impact/skill-set, not resume). Jokic has never even had an all-star teammate before, so him have one less ring/FMVP isn't less impressive to me given how talented the Heat were 11-14.

It's wild how people still claim Jokic isn't close to top 10 all time. His impact stats match MJ/Lebron. To me, he's a taller, bigger, better Larry Bird. If he's better than Larry, then he's clearly top 10.

[BarberSchool]

To me, he's a taller, bigger, better Larry Bird. If he's better than Larry, then he's clearly top 10.I have long said Jokic is Larry Bird’s brain, in Marc Gasol’s body. Quite a combo.

[Full Court]

Jokic doesn't have a record number of choke jobs though. The stats you posted don't tell the entire story. When Jokic's career is over, he'll unquestionably be ranked higher than Lebron.

[Keno]

when it's all said and done, lebron, jokic and luka will be the top 3 players of all time

[1987_Lakers]

Jokic doesn't have a record number of choke jobs though. The stats you posted don't tell the entire story. When Jokic's career is over, he'll unquestionably be ranked higher than Lebron.

And you still think Pistol Pete was a better passer than Jokic. :lol

[ImKobe]

Jokic doesn't have a record number of choke jobs though. The stats you posted don't tell the entire story. When Jokic's career is over, he'll unquestionably be ranked higher than Lebron.

This is the big one. His team did blow a 20-point lead in a Game 7 at home but he was like the only one who showed up in that 2nd half.

Curry best player of the 2010s, Jokic 2020s so far. Lebron doesn't have a decade to himself like Jordan or Kobe, he had the early 2010s but the 2011 choke job will never be forgotten and he had the stats in the late 2010s but Steph owned him.

[ShawkFactory]

This is the big one. His team did blow a 20-point lead in a Game 7 at home but he was like the only one who showed up in that 2nd half.

Curry best player of the 2010s, Jokic 2020s so far. Lebron doesn't have a decade to himself like Jordan or Kobe, he had the early 2010s but the 2011 choke job will never be forgotten and he had the stats in the late 2010s but Steph owned him.

2010s is VERY debatable. He had the first half for sure.

But he's like Duncan were his peak really didn't align perfectly with a decade like say Kobe's did. Or Bird and Magic. Not really a knock.

Like even in this thread it's discussing 2007-2014.

[ArbitraryWater]

This is the big one. His team did blow a 20-point lead in a Game 7 at home but he was like the only one who showed up in that 2nd half.

Curry best player of the 2010s, Jokic 2020s so far. Lebron doesn't have a decade to himself like Jordan or Kobe, he had the early 2010s but the 2011 choke job will never be forgotten and he had the stats in the late 2010s but Steph owned him.

How do you own someone and get outplayed by them 4/4 times?

[ArbitraryWater]

2010s is VERY debatable. He had the first half for sure.

But he's like Duncan were his peak really didn't align perfectly with a decade like say Kobe's did. Or Bird and Magic. Not really a knock.

Like even in this thread it's discussing 2007-2014.

Bron was by far the best player in the world for 8 out of 10 years in the 2010s :lol

Its probably the most unquestionable decade in history. With 90s MJ.

Hilarious take.

[ImKobe]

How do you own someone and get outplayed by them 4/4 times?

2016 is the only clear-cut case for Lebron in their H2H, im not sure you can outplay someone in a one-sided series where your team gets stomped and you're stat-padding when the game's already over. In a way Lebron and Steph are the polar opposites when it comes to how they approach the game and Steph's way is just superior. He crushed the Cavs in the last 3 games of that 2015 series in the 4th. 2017 is very close statistically overall or if you go through all these games individually and Lebron was padding numbers at the end of the series en route to a 1 - 4 loss.


Bron was by far the best player in the world for 8 out of 10 years in the 2010s :lol

Its probably the most unquestionable decade in history. With 90s MJ.

Hilarious take.

Imagine saying hilarious take and then posting bullshit like "best player in the world 8 out of 10 years BY FAR" and comparing it to Jordan's dominance as well. 2011 he wasn't the best. mid 2010s there's arguments for KD and Steph every year and 2019 is Kawhi's. Realistically he was the best in 2012/13 and every other year is debatable or in favor of someone else, that is nowhere near what Jordan did. He didn't win the most rings in that decade nor the RS MVPs.

[SouBeachTalents]

2010s is VERY debatable. He had the first half for sure.

But he's like Duncan were his peak really didn't align perfectly with a decade like say Kobe's did. Or Bird and Magic. Not really a knock.

Like even in this thread it's discussing 2007-2014.
ImKobe's one thing, this is a surprisingly bad take from you. You'd have to genuinely rely solely on titles where Curry had a substantial talent advantage over LeBron in their h2h's, including comical disparities in 2015 & 2018.

Nobody believes Curry is winning in LeBron's place if they swapped places in those series.

[ImKobe]

ImKobe's one thing, this is a surprisingly bad take from you. You'd have to genuinely rely solely on titles where Curry had a substantial talent advantage over LeBron in their h2h's, including comical disparities in 2015 & 2018.

Nobody believes Curry is winning in LeBron's place if they swapped places in those series.

This is a flawed argument because the Cavs were built around Lebron's skillset and the Warriors were built around what Steph does so the team construction would be different if Steph were in Cleveland to begin with.

The 2018 Cavs would've been better than what they were if Lebron didn't drive Kyrie away by trying to trade him behind his back. Durant had the chance to join Lebron after 2019 to form a superteam in LA but chose Kyrie's crazy ass instead.

[1987_Lakers]

Both better than Kobe, that's for sure.

[ShawkFactory]

ImKobe's one thing, this is a surprisingly bad take from you. You'd have to genuinely rely solely on titles where Curry had a substantial talent advantage over LeBron in their h2h's, including comical disparities in 2015 & 2018.

Nobody believes Curry is winning in LeBron's place if they swapped places in those series.

I was just meeting him halfway.

[ShawkFactory]

2016 is the only clear-cut case for Lebron in their H2H, im not sure you can outplay someone in a one-sided series where your team gets stomped and you're stat-padding when the game's already over. In a way Lebron and Steph are the polar opposites when it comes to how they approach the game and Steph's way is just superior. He crushed the Cavs in the last 3 games of that 2015 series in the 4th. 2017 is very close statistically overall or if you go through all these games individually and Lebron was padding numbers at the end of the series en route to a 1 - 4 loss.



Imagine saying hilarious take and then posting bullshit like "best player in the world 8 out of 10 years BY FAR" and comparing it to Jordan's dominance as well. 2011 he wasn't the best. mid 2010s there's arguments for KD and Steph every year and 2019 is Kawhi's. Realistically he was the best in 2012/13 and every other year is debatable or in favor of someone else, that is nowhere near what Jordan did. He didn't win the most rings in that decade nor the RS MVPs.

The same can be said for Kobe in 2000s. Maybe only 2-3 years where he was the fairly consensus best in the league. Still, his body of work in that decade overall is probably tops.

[ShawkFactory]

Gonna do the same numbers as the OP for Curry and Lebron in the 2010s, but add raw numbers as well.

Regular Season

Lebron: 726 Games, 26.9ppg/7.7rpg/7.6ast, 28.6 PER, .609 TS%, .251 ws/48, 9.2 BPM, 76.5 VORP, 3 MVPs, 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, 10x All-NBA (9 firsts, 1 second), 5x All-NBA Defense (4 firsts, 1 second)

Steph: 694 Games, 23.5ppg/3.8rpg/6.6ast, 23.8 PER, .624 TS%, .207 ws/48, 6.4 BPM, 50.5 VORP, 2 MVPs, 3 rings, 0 FMVPS, 6x All-NBA (4 firsts, 2 seconds, 1 third), 0 Defensive


Playoffs

Lebron: 179 games, 28.8ppg/9.1rpg/7.0ast, 28.8 PER, .588 TS%, .250 ws/48, 10.1 BPM, 22.6 VORP

Steph: 112 games, 26.5ppg/5.4rpg/6.3ast, 23.0 PER, .609 TS%, .194 ws/48, 6.9 BPM, 9.5 VORP


Yes, I realize this is just paper resumes but it's kind of insulting to Lebron and weird to act like yea Steph just owned that decade. It's wild actually.

[ImKobe]

Gonna do the same numbers as the OP for Curry and Lebron in the 2010s, but add raw numbers as well.

Regular Season

Lebron: 726 Games, 26.9ppg/7.7rpg/7.6ast, 28.6 PER, .609 TS%, .251 ws/48, 9.2 BPM, 76.5 VORP, 3 MVPs, 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, 10x All-NBA (9 firsts, 1 second), 5x All-NBA Defense (4 firsts, 1 second)

Steph: 694 Games, 23.5ppg/3.8rpg/6.6ast, 23.8 PER, .624 TS%, .207 ws/48, 6.4 BPM, 50.5 VORP, 2 MVPs, 3 rings, 0 FMVPS, 6x All-NBA (4 firsts, 2 seconds, 1 third), 0 Defensive


Playoffs

Lebron: 179 games, 28.8ppg/9.1rpg/7.0ast, 28.8 PER, .588 TS%, .250 ws/48, 10.1 BPM, 22.6 VORP

Steph: 112 games, 26.5ppg/5.4rpg/6.3ast, 23.0 PER, .609 TS%, .194 ws/48, 6.9 BPM, 9.5 VORP


Yes, I realize this is just paper resumes but it's kind of insulting to Lebron and weird to act like yea Steph just owned that decade. It's wild actually.

How can you be the player of the decade when the other dude owned your ass in the Finals 3 times? Lebron played in the weakest Conference ever and padded his numbers on mostly losing teams. 2011 goes down as the greatest individual choke ever so that's not for nothing, he got clowned the worst I've ever seen any athlete clowned ever that summer. Steph's cultural impact alone is way bigger than Lebron's with his volume 3PT shooting that really started a new era of basketball. He had the most dominant RS ever and the most dominant title run ever. He was the first unanimous MVP. He's the greatest shooter ever and broke all the shooting records you could imagine.

We don't make the stats argument for Wilt when he got his ass beat by Bill Russell every time. We make fun of him for "choking" even though he had worse teammates. Those same people will turn around and make every excuse in the world for Lebron.

[warriorfan]

ImKobe's one thing, this is a surprisingly bad take from you. You'd have to genuinely rely solely on titles where Curry had a substantial talent advantage over LeBron in their h2h's, including comical disparities in 2015 & 2018.

Nobody believes Curry is winning in LeBron's place if they swapped places in those series.

That’s on LeBron. He didn’t have to play LeGM while he team hopped and ravaged them all like locusts before moving on to the next one and repeating it.

He played the short game, not the long game.

Team hop > sell all assets and demand guys get overpaid by front office > franchise eventually gets gutted > move onto the next team

You can cry about how Cleveland sucks or whatever, ge could have went to any other team he wanted and tried to build the right way….But he didn’t, he tried to take shortcut after shortcut, and a lot of those in hindsight he ended up playing himself and it turned into a longcut.

Bron made his bed now he can lay in it.

[ImKobe]

The same can be said for Kobe in 2000s. Maybe only 2-3 years where he was the fairly consensus best in the league. Still, his body of work in that decade overall is probably tops.

Duncan would have a stronger argument if he didn't get outplayed & crushed in the Playoffs 3 out of 4 times, and the only time he did beat Kobe the Lakers were coming off 3 straight titles while Kobe denied Duncan from winning consecutive titles.

[warriorfan]

How can you be the player of the decade when the other dude owned your ass in the Finals 3 times? Lebron played in the weakest Conference ever and padded his numbers on mostly losing teams. 2011 goes down as the greatest individual choke ever so that's not for nothing, he got clowned the worst I've ever seen any athlete clowned ever that summer. Steph's cultural impact alone is way bigger than Lebron's with his volume 3PT shooting that really started a new era of basketball. He had the most dominant RS ever and the most dominant title run ever. He was the first unanimous MVP. He's the greatest shooter ever and broke all the shooting records you could imagine.

We don't make the stats argument for Wilt when he got his ass beat by Bill Russell every time. We make fun of him for "choking" even though he had worse teammates. Those same people will turn around and make every excuse in the world for Lebron.

These guys don’t know a lot about the game. They are better suited at putting two excel spreadsheets next to each other and finding which one had the higher number :lol

[Full Court]

And you still think Pistol Pete was a better passer than Jokic. :lol

Another thing you made up that I never said. But I guess that's what you have to resort to when you get consistently destroyed huh? :lol

I said Pistol Pete was a great passer, which is a no-brainer. By saying he wasn't, you merely showed that you really know nothing about the sport. :confusedshrug:

You even said Stockton wasn't a great passer. :roll: Can't make this stuff up.

[1987_Lakers]

That’s on LeBron. He didn’t have to play LeGM while he team hopped and ravaged them all like locusts before moving on to the next one and repeating it.

The funny thing is, LeBron outplayed Curry in both 2015 and 2018.

It must be embarrassing for Curry that LeBron got some FMVP votes in 2015 while Curry received none.

I also remember Curry throwing a hissy fit for losing out FMVP to Durant in 2018.

[1987_Lakers]

Another thing you made up that I never said.

Oh really???



12 players better passers than Jokic

Bird
Stockton
Oscar Robinson
Magic
Kidd
Nash
Mark Jackson
Cousey
Chris Paul
Rondo
Maravich
Thomas



"Bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-but TOM BRADY!!!!!"

:roll:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?522308-Who-is-the-greatest-passer-in-NBA-History&p=15030271&viewfull=1#post15030271


Jokic is an overrated passer. He does a lot of super high risk passes that, when they go through, make people ooh and aah, but most of the time they are unnecessary, and many times lead to boneheaded turnovers.

He certainly doesn't belong on a list of best passers in NBA history.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?522308-Who-is-the-greatest-passer-in-NBA-History&p=15028181&viewfull=1#post15028181

[1987_Lakers]

Full tard really thought I wouldn't come with receipts.

[Full Court]

Full tard really thought I wouldn't come with receipts.

Ok, I forgot I had actually said it. I take back my comment that you were making it up.

That said, my take was still correct. Deal with it.


:hammertime:

[warriorfan]

The funny thing is, LeBron outplayed Curry in both 2015 and 2018.

It must be embarrassing for Curry that LeBron got some FMVP votes in 2015 while Curry received none.

I also remember Curry throwing a hissy fit for losing out FMVP to Durant in 2018.

Low iq meltdown.

You just don’t know ball. Just that simple.

[1987_Lakers]

Ok, I forgot I had actually said it. I take back my comment that you were making it up.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZzd5YXI3MGJmeGF4ODFibXF2eHFtZmJ kN2RiaGFzMm84cmQ4cW1pbSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/6rTQC2UiX9AOI/giphy.gif

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZmNyN2hjaDl4ZXlkcDJ5Z21pdTduZWI xNnhvNndleDNoODM5YzhhMSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/569C9AVb7uPEHXGOLk/giphy.gif

[Hey Yo]

Duncan would have a stronger argument if he didn't get outplayed & crushed in the Playoffs 3 out of 4 times, and the only time he did beat Kobe the Lakers were coming off 3 straight titles while Kobe denied Duncan from winning consecutive titles.

Kobe only played Duncan once in the playoffs in 2008 as first option and the Lakers prevailed. Anything before that was Duncan vs. Shaq.

[Hey Yo]

Low iq meltdown.

You just don’t know ball. Just that simple.

15-66 brah....

[ShawkFactory]

How can you be the player of the decade when the other dude owned your ass in the Finals 3 times? Lebron played in the weakest Conference ever and padded his numbers on mostly losing teams. 2011 goes down as the greatest individual choke ever so that's not for nothing, he got clowned the worst I've ever seen any athlete clowned ever that summer. Steph's cultural impact alone is way bigger than Lebron's with his volume 3PT shooting that really started a new era of basketball. He had the most dominant RS ever and the most dominant title run ever. He was the first unanimous MVP. He's the greatest shooter ever and broke all the shooting records you could imagine.

We don't make the stats argument for Wilt when he got his ass beat by Bill Russell every time. We make fun of him for "choking" even though he had worse teammates. Those same people will turn around and make every excuse in the world for Lebron.

Jesus. This is exactly why I don’t argue seriously about Lebron, Kobe, Curry, etc with people anymore :lol

People love context when it’s convenient. At least I acknowledged that my side was lacking some.

Yours is too but after more than a decade of this shit I don’t have the energy to pick it apart yet again. So I guess it’s definitive.

No…youre just called ImKobe and always did and always will have a bias against Lebron. It’s fine but don’t pretend like it’s not there.

[warriorfan]

15-66 brah....

Never knew you were a simp that goes with whatever the media tells him.

Interesting.

[1987_Lakers]

Never knew you were a simp that goes with whatever the media tells him.

Interesting.

The fact that you know what he's referring to makes it better.

[warriorfan]

The fact that you know what he's referring to makes it better.

“You not being low iq is proof we are right for accepting mass media narratives with no questioning”


:roll:


Never change little guy.

[Full Court]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZzd5YXI3MGJmeGF4ODFibXF2eHFtZmJ kN2RiaGFzMm84cmQ4cW1pbSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/6rTQC2UiX9AOI/giphy.gif

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZmNyN2hjaDl4ZXlkcDJ5Z21pdTduZWI xNnhvNndleDNoODM5YzhhMSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/569C9AVb7uPEHXGOLk/giphy.gif

Of course, you admitted that you never saw Stockton play, so I guarantee you never saw Maravich play. It wouldn't suprise me if you haven't seen Jokic play either, given your complete ignorance. :confusedshrug:

[Real Men Wear Green]

I world take James for what he used to do defensively. Don't forget that when he was younger he was one of the best defenders in the league. I don't believe that the advanced stats properly account for that.

[ShawkFactory]

You know what, I actually will address this real quick as I have an hour to kill waiting for a home inspector to finish up with a house I just bought:


How can you be the player of the decade when the other dude owned your ass in the Finals 3 times?

Silliness. Completely overmatched teams. If OKC beat the Nuggets again I don't think you or anyone would be prepared to move SGA over Jokic.


Lebron played in the weakest Conference ever and padded his numbers on mostly losing teams.

His numbers didn't change much at all whether they won or lost. And if he DID have to score more on an overmatched team..how is that a knock? And again...he won just as much as Steph did :lol


Steph's cultural impact alone is way bigger than Lebron's with his volume 3PT shooting that really started a new era of basketball.

His cultural impact was absolutely not bigger. His impact on the game was, but was that a good thing? I constantly hear everyone here bitch about how everyone just shoots threes now.


and the most dominant title run ever

When was this?


He was the first unanimous MVP.

Because one weirdo decided to give Melo an MVP vote in 2013. Who cares...


We don't make the stats argument for Wilt when he got his ass beat by Bill Russell every time. We make fun of him for "choking" even though he had worse teammates. Those same people will turn around and make every excuse in the world for Lebron.

This in particular is dumb. For starters, plenty of people did and still would take Wilt over Russell. PLENTY. Acting like it's some forgone conclusion that people think Russell was superior is revisionist history at its absolute finest. And even IF you want to argue Russell owned the 60s because of rings? He had 9 of them...Wilt had 1. Lebron and Steph were 3-3 in the 2010s.

Just not good arguments across the board. The only thing you can say is the gravity he had as a player. Everything else is rubbish.

[kawhileonard2]

Regular Season

Lebron: 604 games, 29.3 PER, 59.8 TS%, .273 WS/48, 10.4 BPM, 73.1 VORP, 4 MVPs, 2 rings, 2 FMVPs.

Jokic: 592 games, 29.3 PER, 64.1 TS%, .270 WS/48, 11.1 BPM, 65.9 VORP, 3 MVPs, 1 ring, 1 FMVPs.

Playoffs

Lebron: 145 games, 28.1 PER, 58 TS%, .252 WS/48, 10.3 BPM

Jokic: 94 games, 28.5 PER, 61.2 TS%, .231 WS/48, 10.8 BPM

Fascinating how similar their numbers are. I've made it known that Jokic was already a top 10 player to ever play the game by the end of 2024 (based on impact/skill-set, not resume). Jokic has never even had an all-star teammate before, so him have one less ring/FMVP isn't less impressive to me given how talented the Heat were 11-14.

It's wild how people still claim Jokic isn't close to top 10 all time. His impact stats match MJ/Lebron. To me, he's a taller, bigger, better Larry Bird. If he's better than Larry, then he's clearly top 10.
Joker didnt have to switch teams

[Micku]

Regular Season

Lebron: 604 games, 29.3 PER, 59.8 TS%, .273 WS/48, 10.4 BPM, 73.1 VORP, 4 MVPs, 2 rings, 2 FMVPs.

Jokic: 592 games, 29.3 PER, 64.1 TS%, .270 WS/48, 11.1 BPM, 65.9 VORP, 3 MVPs, 1 ring, 1 FMVPs.

Playoffs

Lebron: 145 games, 28.1 PER, 58 TS%, .252 WS/48, 10.3 BPM

Jokic: 94 games, 28.5 PER, 61.2 TS%, .231 WS/48, 10.8 BPM

Fascinating how similar their numbers are. I've made it known that Jokic was already a top 10 player to ever play the game by the end of 2024 (based on impact/skill-set, not resume). Jokic has never even had an all-star teammate before, so him have one less ring/FMVP isn't less impressive to me given how talented the Heat were 11-14.

It's wild how people still claim Jokic isn't close to top 10 all time. His impact stats match MJ/Lebron. To me, he's a taller, bigger, better Larry Bird. If he's better than Larry, then he's clearly top 10.

To me, he is better than Larry Bird. He is so consistent and has so many crazy games relative to his era in comparison.

But Jokic never had the talent like LeBron or Bird did. It'll be scary to imagine him with that amount of talent.

[Full Court]

You know what, I actually will address this real quick as I have an hour to kill waiting for a home inspector to finish up with a house I just bought:



You're supposed to get the house inspected BEFORE you buy it....

[ShawkFactory]

You're supposed to get the house inspected BEFORE you buy it....

Relax geek. Offer accepted and in due diligence period.

[StrongLurk]

Saying Curry owns the 2010's is just self admitting to be a true moron :lol.

You can make an argument that KD did more in the 2010's than Curry.

Curry didn't even win a single FMVP in the 2010's :lol. Even Kawhi got two.

[kawhileonard2]

Saying Curry owns the 2010's is just self admitting to be a true moron :lol.

You can make an argument that KD did more in the 2010's than Curry.

Curry didn't even win a single FMVP in the 2010's :lol. Even Kawhi got two.

Durant switched teams.

[StrongLurk]

Durant switched teams.

Which directly gave Curry 2 more rings :lol.

[Baller234]

Which directly gave Curry 2 more rings :lol.

Curry has won without KD though.

[Axe]

true moron
https://i.ibb.co/XZ5qVsYf/Screenshot-20250703-235925.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/LRYVhvB/IMG-20240928-122514.jpg)


Which directly gave Curry 2 more rings :lol.
Kd also did beat him first to a finals mvp.

[StrongLurk]

Curry has won without KD though.

Not in the 2010's, which is what I was talking about. KD in the 10's decade is arguably more impressive than Curry in the 10's.

[Baller234]

Not in the 2010's, which is what I was talking about. KD in the 10's decade is arguably more impressive than Curry in the 10's.

It doesn't matter what year Curry won because in doing so he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was the MVP of the equation and not Durant.

Durant didn't win until he played with Curry. Curry won before Durant and he won after Durant.

Case closed.

[StrongLurk]

It doesn't matter what year Curry won because in doing so he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was the MVP of the equation and not Durant.

Durant didn't win until he played with Curry. Curry won before Durant and he won after Durant.

Case closed.

What your posting about is irrelevant to the discussion that was going on...

[Baller234]

What your posting about is irrelevant to the discussion that was going on...

Well you're trying to make the case that Durant was more "impressive" than Curry over the span of a decade.

But how can that be if the only time he ever won was when he played with Curry? Before that he was getting BEAT by Curry. And before THAT he was getting beat by Lebron.

Curry won a championship before Durant even got there. Winning again AFTER Durant leaves only further emphasizes that he was the key ingredient on that Warriors team and not Durant. So how can you say Durant's decade was more impressive when he wasn't even the best player on his own championship teams?

And before you even throw finals mvp in my face... Cedric Maxwell, Joe Dumars, Tony Parker, Jaylen Brown... have finals mvps. Doesn't mean they were the best or most valuable player on the team. History has shown that Curry was the key ingredient and not KD.

[ShawkFactory]

Well you're trying to make the case that Durant was more "impressive" than Curry over the span of a decade.

But how can that be if the only time he ever won was when he played with Curry? Before that he was getting BEAT by Curry. And before THAT he was getting beat by Lebron.

Curry won a championship before Durant even got there. Winning again AFTER Durant leaves only further emphasizes that he was the key ingredient on that Warriors team and not Durant. So how can you say Durant's decade was more impressive when he wasn't even the best player on his own championship teams?

And before you even throw finals mvp in my face... Cedric Maxwell, Joe Dumars, Tony Parker, Jaylen Brown... have finals mvps. Doesn't mean they were the best or most valuable player on the team. History has shown that Curry was the key ingredient and not KD.

Is it not possible for both of them to have been the key ingredients?

Maybe Curry was like..5% more valuable for the team at the time but KD was a completely dominant force and a top 3 player in the league. And without him I'm not sure they win either of those titles. I'd actually bet pretty heavily against it.

[StrongLurk]

Well you're trying to make the case that Durant was more "impressive" than Curry over the span of a decade.

But how can that be if the only time he ever won was when he played with Curry? Before that he was getting BEAT by Curry. And before THAT he was getting beat by Lebron.

Curry won a championship before Durant even got there. Winning again AFTER Durant leaves only further emphasizes that he was the key ingredient on that Warriors team and not Durant. So how can you say Durant's decade was more impressive when he wasn't even the best player on his own championship teams?

And before you even throw finals mvp in my face... Cedric Maxwell, Joe Dumars, Tony Parker, Jaylen Brown... have finals mvps. Doesn't mean they were the best or most valuable player on the team. History has shown that Curry was the key ingredient and not KD.

This is so dumb. Those players you listed as FMVP weren't even CLOSE to what Durant was doing in the 17/18 finals. Durant clearly was better in the finals and could go toe-to-toe with Lebron, unlike Curry.

Also, Curry only won in 2015 because Love and Kyrie got hurt. I'm CERTAIN that if Durant had a similar setup in 2012 (where Wade and Bosh were injured), then Durant would've won a ring then, well before Curry's rise.

[Phoenix]

Curry vs KD is interesting. In 2017 and 2018, I believe the Warriors record with Steph/without KD was much better than with KD/without Steph. That makes sense because the team was structured around Currys strengths and how everyone benefited from his off-ball gravity. Remove Steph and its more of an iso-centric 'give it to KD and let him get buckets' style which doesnt open up the floor as much for the other players. Its clear that as great as the Warriors were in the regular season in 2016, come playoffs they were more susceptible and KD is what ultimately made them unbeatable. Any breakdown in the offense and he was the ultimate' get me a bucket' player at that point. Its entirely possible that the Cavs win in 2017 without KD there to neutralize Lebron.

To me they're in the same tier of greatness as far as rankings, whichever you prefer. For me the 2022 title tips Curry in combination with what Durant hasn't done post- Warriors.

[Hey Yo]

I was just meeting him halfway.

:whatever:

[ShawkFactory]

:whatever:

Wow we’re at the point where you just follow me around and do this? :lol

Dweeb.

[Baller234]

Is it not possible for both of them to have been the key ingredients?

Maybe Curry was like..5% more valuable for the team at the time but KD was a completely dominant force and a top 3 player in the league. And without him I'm not sure they win either of those titles. I'd actually bet pretty heavily against it.

They went 73-9 the year before and forced the finals to 7 games, but you wouldn't give them a chance to win again? Huh? Obviously we don't have a crystal ball but common sense dictates they would have still been in the hunt. Not sure how you could bet "heavily" against it. Vegas probably still has them as the favorites headed into the following year.

And yes I agree that KD was dominant but it's hard to say he was the key ingredient when the team won before him and won without him. KD was just a cheat code that transformed an already great team to an even better one. But I can't picture that same team winning without Curry.

I agree with Phoenix. It's close but I think you have to go with Curry.

[ShawkFactory]

They went 73-9 the year before and forced the finals to 7 games, but you wouldn't give them a chance to win again? Huh?

Reread what I said.

I did not say they wouldn't have a chance. I said I'm not sure they win either title, and likely wouldn't be favored. Particularly in 2017 because I think the Cavs were better that year than in '16, and they'd already come off of a win and had a clear mental advantage. KD changed all of that.

When you make a Pizza there are several key ingredients. You could argue Curry was the dough and you wouldn't be wrong but that doesn't really matter without the sauce and cheese, which was KD.

[Baller234]

Reread what I said.

I did not say they wouldn't have a chance. I said I'm not sure they win either title, and likely wouldn't be favored. Particularly in 2017 because I think the Cavs were better that year than in '16, and they'd already come off of a win and had a clear mental advantage. KD changed all of that.

When you make a Pizza there are several key ingredients. You could argue Curry was the dough and you wouldn't be wrong but that doesn't really matter without the sauce and cheese, which was KD.

But you could make a pizza with all sorts of sauces and cheeses. If you plug almost any star player into that same situation, the Warriors probably still win. Curry can co-exist with any type of player.

I'm not sure KD could have won with just any other star player in Curry's place.

You can make any type of pizza you want but you need the dough.

[Hey Yo]

Wow we’re at the point where you just follow me around and do this? :lol

Dweeb.

Follow you around?? Talk out of your ass much?

Link em' up, pu$$y so we can see all these alleged posts that you're claiming I've made "following you around."

[Hey Yo]

Follow you around?? Talk out of your ass much?

Link em' up, pu$$y so we can see all these alleged posts that you're claiming I've made "following you around."

Shawk???

[ShawkFactory]

It’s just started :lol

[ShawkFactory]

It’s just started :lol

[Hey Yo]

It’s just started :lol

Yep....that's what I thought. No links for you to provide cause you were lying out of your ass and now tryjng to save face due to your lying.

[highwhey]

i specifically went to see the nuggets vs wolves, flew into denver, stayed downtown, had some very mediocre white ppl food. the game 7 match was pathetic, jokic was tired the entire time, he was everything but great. he's overrated, he's simply a beneficiary of players having abnormally great performances like jamal murray going kobe mode or aaron gordon locking down KD against the suns. without those once in a lifetime performances, jokic has been unable to replicate his title run. but hey, one title is great and of course all of the great stats. but he's not a goat.