Dominique Wilkins: Overrated or underrated?

[White Chocolate]

Dominique is a career 24.8 PPG/6.7 RPG/2.5 APG/1.3 SPG. He averaged over 20 PPG in 11 of 15 seasons, over 25 PPG in 10 of 15 seasons, and 30+ PPG twice. He wasn't a great shooter, never averaging 50% from the field in any season. When I see him in highlights, I always saw him dunking. Did he have a decent jumpshot, or was it streaky?

[NastaMaverick]

Possible slightly overrated because of his amazing dunking ability, though he was a great player.

[grovetd]

underrated. hes damn 9th all time in scoring. end thread.

[Lebron23]

Dominique Wilkins should have been included in the 50 greatest player because he is not only a popular dunker, but he also led the Atlanta Hawks to a competitive record in the mid 1980's.

I think people underrate him because they think Wilkins failed to led his team in the NBA Finals, but during that time the Eastern Conference is one of the strongest conference in the NBA, and I think Wilkins have some historical performance againts the Detroit Pistons, and Boston Celtics.



Achievements in the NBA

1985-86 NBA Scoring Champion (30.3)
NBA All-Star Slam Dunk Champion: 1985, 1990.
NBA All-Rookie Team: 1983.
All-NBA First Team: 1986.
All-NBA Second Team: 1987, 1988, 1991, 1993.
All-NBA Third Team: 1989, 1994.
Nine-time NBA All-Star: 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994.

[mjbulls23]

underrated

[Myth]

Overrated. His career (on the court) to me has been similar to Vince Carter's.

[Manute for Ever!]

Severely underrated, ESPECIALLY his jumper, because people only pay attention to the dunks.

[Psileas]

Possible slightly overrated


underrated


I think people underrate him


underrated


Overrated


Severely underrated

Controversial. I think that's the correct word for Nique, much like was the case with Pippen.

[Celts34]

Dominique was tremendously underrated. He was the most or the 2nd most dominant scorer in the league for the better part of the 80's. But the reason he gets disregarded is the same reason that MJ was disregarded in that era. The Household names magic, bird, Isiah were busy scooping up rings, and each of them were guys who brought many things to the table outside of scoring. So it became easy for writers and fans to pideonhole Nique as being inferior due to his lack of Championship success. The fact that he hung aorund about 3 years, and drifted around the league, too long also hurts him a ton.

But if you go and look at the accomplishments that Nique had, and his career overall. He's undoubtedly underrated

[guy]

Some people overrate him, but for the most part he is underrated. He should've been on the top 50 list and he should've been on the original dream team over Chris Mullin.

[BIZARRO]

Dominique was tremendously underrated. He was the most or the 2nd most dominant scorer in the league for the better part of the 80's. But the reason he gets disregarded is the same reason that MJ was disregarded in that era. The Household names magic, bird, Isiah were busy scooping up rings, and each of them were guys who brought many things to the table outside of scoring. So it became easy for writers and fans to pideonhole Nique as being inferior due to his lack of Championship success. The fact that he hung aorund about 3 years, and drifted around the league, too long also hurts him a ton.

But if you go and look at the accomplishments that Nique had, and his career overall. He's undoubtedly underrated

Hugely underrated. Few in NbA history can match the scoring explosiveness and athleticism of prime 'Nique.

[Manute for Ever!]

Some people overrate him, but for the most part he is underrated. He should've been on the top 50 list and he should've been on the original dream team over Chris Mullin.

I think that was the year he tore his achilles. Also, he was born in France so that may have affected it, too (Yes, I realise he was on Dream Team 2).

[elz]

Severely underrated, ESPECIALLY his jumper, because people only pay attention to the dunks.


CLAPS


DUDE GOT INTO A PLAYOFF SHOOTOUT WITH LARRY BIRD
NUFF SAID

ITS ONE OF THE GREATEST PLAYOFF SERIES AND GAMES IN NBA HISTORY THEY BOTH DROP OVER 40 AND NEITHER WOULD MISS


NIQUE WAS NOT A ONE TRICK PONY!!!!!

[Mathius]

I find him overrated in the same sense that Carmelo Anthony is. People usually associate Wilkins with Vince Carter when picking a player who is like him, but actually Carter is a much more complete player. The only thing they have in common is their dunking styles.

Nique was only a so-so defender, and didn't rebound especially well either. He was instant offense, and that's about it. I find Carmelo Anthony's game very similar to Nique. Anthony is credited as being a superstar, but look up the number of double doubles he actually has for his career. Very low.

Mathius

[ikoiko]

I find him overrated in the same sense that Carmelo Anthony is. People usually associate Wilkins with Vince Carter when picking a player who is like him, but actually Carter is a much more complete player. The only thing they have in common is their dunking styles.

Nique was only a so-so defender, and didn't rebound especially well either. He was instant offense, and that's about it. I find Carmelo Anthony's game very similar to Nique. Anthony is credited as being a superstar, but look up the number of double doubles he actually has for his career. Very low.

Mathius

saying all Dominique did was score is like saying all Biggie did was rap.

[Sicknote]

I think he was underrated as a player as a whole, but his dunks sure as hell weren't.

[TheHonestTruth]

Underrated player.
And his dunks are better than Jordan's. Wilkins was robbed in that 88 dunk contest.

[Lakerfan1-Iceland]

How anyone can call him Overrated is beond me!!

Him not getting picked on that top 50 list in 1997 was one of the biggest blunders of that list! That alone tells you he was not Overrated.

Someone said he was only a so so defender is not that true he was definatly better than Larry Bird on that end. Bird was a sneaky defender, a good team defender just like Nique only Nique was a much better man to man defender. But people forget that during the 80s late 80s early 90s the biggest scoring position was the SF and SG position every night there was a great scorer from that position vs Nique and Nique more than held his own against all of those guys, many times beeing the only defenders on them while other teams used two-three-four defenders on Nique.
There was Chambers,Dantley the Nuggets players i forget the names and many many many more great scoring SF who could drop 40 on any given night.

Nique newer had a great team around him, he had a few Good teams but they came just up short vs the likes of the great Celtics teams and Pistons teams.

Dominique at times was precieved wrongly as selfish kinda like Hakeem was at times and Drexler and Jordan but like his coaches and team mates have said he was newer selfish the Hawks NEEDED him to score a lot of points to have a shot at anything, is he would have had a great point guard who could maybe score a little like a Thomas or a Magic or even like a DJ the Hawks would have won more.

To be 9th all time scoring in the NBA you better believe that he could score in more ways than dunkin, and that especially was apparent after he tore his hamstring in 91 and came back a LOT less athletic he was still scoring close to 30 a night.

Comparing him to Vince Carter is just TOTALLY WRONG!
Nique wanted to win, watchin games from that era you NEWER saw Nique tanking in games or givin excuses like some players. And comparing him to Vince is totally wrong. Also Vince is a totally diffirent player with totally diffirent skillset and MUCH MUCH softer mentally than Nique ever was

[Mathius]

What other records does he hold besides scoring?

*crickets*

Exactly.

Mathius

[Linas Kleiza]

Nique was only a so-so defender, and didn't rebound especially well either. He was instant offense, and that's about it. I find Carmelo Anthony's game very similar to Nique. Anthony is credited as being a superstar, but look up the number of double doubles he actually has for his career. Very low.

Mathius

To be fair, Melo averages 7.5 rpg playing next to Marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin. Any double-double is an achievement in that situation. NBA Dr. J never really rebounded any better than Melo because of the same situation. Is he overrated too?

Nique and Melo are nothing alike at all. They're just scorers is your argument. Kind of surprised at that comparison.

[Mathius]

To be fair, Melo averages 7.5 rpg playing next to Marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin. Any double-double is an achievement in that situation. NBA Dr. J never really rebounded any better than Melo because of the same situation. Is he overrated too?

Nique and Melo are nothing alike at all. They're just scorers is your argument. Kind of surprised at that comparison.

<shrug> Dr. J's legacy has a lot to do with the things he did for the game of basketball, not necessarily statistics. The ABA was going out of its way to make things fun and creative for the fans, and everyone was bringing their own personality to the game. Dr. J. is credited for bringing the dunk to the game of basketball. He's not the first to do it. He's probably not the first to do trick dunks. But he's probably the first REALLY good dunker in the game.

Normally just being a good dunker isn't enough (look at James White and Harold Miner), but the Doctor also averaged quite a few points, while being a pretty good defender, and winning a few titles along the way.

Players like him were responsible for the ABA merger with the NBA, and the 4 franchises that came over with that along with a slew of rule changes that made the NBA what it is today.

That's just one example of what Dr. J has done for the game of basketball. A lot of it may have been being in the right place at the right time, who knows, but Wilt Chamberlain still gets votes for GOAT from some people, and I personally think he just played against a lot of shorter, weaker opponents.

Dr. J. was so good that other teams players were trying to injure him. A guy by the name of Wendell Ladner (sp?) appointed himself Dr. J's on the court bodyguard. That's how good Dr. J. was.

Speaking of which, Ladner was a hell of a player in his own right. Think a white Dennis Rodman, with less emphasis on rebounds and more emphasis on total offense and being an enforcer, Bill Lambieer style.

Mathius

[Chicago76]

What other records does he hold besides scoring?

*crickets*

Exactly.

Mathius

You're selling the man really, really short.

He was known for his scoring, but that doesn't mean he didn't do other things too. How many forwards in history played at least 80% of his minutes and averaged at least 80% of his PPG, RPG, and APG? 14. That's "only" a 19.9 pt, 5.3 rebound, 2 ast average.

Karl Malone, John Havlicek, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, Rick Barry, Dominique Wilkins, Alex English, Kevin Garnett, Larry Bird, Adrian Dantley, Elgin Baylor, Chris Webber, Bob Pettit, Tim Duncan.

All are HOF locks except Webber. All have or will get in on first ballot other than Webber and Dantley. The bottom line is that the 1980s had an embarrasment of talent at small forward: Bird, English, Dantley, Wilkins, King, Worthy, Mullin, young Pippen, olg Erving, Aguirre, etc. There was so much talent, and Wilkins was the clear #2 after Erving faded. The problem was that Bird overshadowed everyone, so and the difference between Wilkins and the rest appeared smaller than it actually was.

Bird>>>>>Wilkins>>>>>Everyone else

His supporting cast sucked, and he was so known for dunking that people overlooked his range and his defense.

[Mathius]

You're selling the man really, really short.

He was known for his scoring, but that doesn't mean he didn't do other things too. How many forwards in history played at least 80% of his minutes and averaged at least 80% of his PPG, RPG, and APG? 14. That's "only" a 19.9 pt, 5.3 rebound, 2 ast average.

Karl Malone, John Havlicek, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, Rick Barry, Dominique Wilkins, Alex English, Kevin Garnett, Larry Bird, Adrian Dantley, Elgin Baylor, Chris Webber, Bob Pettit, Tim Duncan.

Could you have come up with a more obscure stat to try and make your point?


All are HOF locks except Webber. All have or will get in on first ballot other than Webber and Dantley. The bottom line is that the 1980s had an embarrasment of talent at small forward: Bird, English, Dantley, Wilkins, King, Worthy, Mullin, young Pippen, olg Erving, Aguirre, etc. There was so much talent, and Wilkins was the clear #2 after Erving faded. The problem was that Bird overshadowed everyone, so and the difference between Wilkins and the rest appeared smaller than it actually was.

It's not an embarassment of talent. That's why they used to refer to it as the skilled position. The most well rounded individuals in the game play SF, because it is the transition between the front court and the back court. You are expected to pretty much do it all.

Its no coincidence that in today's game, there's always a slew of guys up for an all star ballot at SF, and SG. The "wing" players are the most talented players in the game in most cases.


Bird>>>>>Wilkins>>>>>Everyone else

His supporting cast sucked, and he was so known for dunking that people overlooked his range and his defense.

I totally disagree. He had range in the same way Michael Jordan had range. He never took the three pointers consistently, and when he did, he started making them fairly well, but it was never something he was known for. His defense was not great, period. It was ok. I never watched a game and saw him shut anyone down. EVER. I never heard of it happening. And the Hawks played the Cavs regularly, they're in our conference and we regularly met them in the playoffs. In fact, after Lenny Wilkins went there, and Craig Ehlo followed, it was quite a rivalry during those days. Granted, Nique didn't play there long when Wilkins was, but that's not my point.

I would go so far as to say prime Pippen is a better player than prime Nique. He isn't the scorer that Nique was, but he makes up for it with his rebounding, defense, and playmaking. The comment that Nique was the next best thing to Larry Bird, is questionable at best. (paraphrasing)

Mathius

[Chicago76]

Could you have come up with a more obscure stat to try and make your point?

The point that was apparently lost here was that you said Wilkins could score and do nothing else. Yet only a few players could even get 80% of his assist and rebound totals. That tells me he could do more than score.

Said another way, let's look at what each guy did in his prime, from the ages of 25 to 30 who were within 10 years either way of Wilkins. That's 20 years of basketball. We'll look at the following guys for the duration of this post: Bird, Erving, Pippen, English, Drexler, Jordan, Wilkins, Mullin, Worthy, Dantley, King, Aguirre, and Gervin--all of them HOFers or discussed a lot at some point for the HOF. Wilkins averaged 6.8 boards a game in his prime. How many of this guys exceeded him by a single board a game? 1 (Bird). How many fell more than a board short? 6. That tells me, you, and everyone else here he could do more than score relative to some very good/great players.

Let's look at assists/game. Wilkins was at the bottom here at 2.7 a game. Who else was was within an assist better? Worthy, Dantley, Aguirre, Gervin, and King. All but one of these guys played with weak supporting casts in his prime. The guys with better ast numbers all played with guys ranging from HOFers in their prime, run TMC, or the English/Davis/Issel/Kiki 120 ppg Nuggets. Drexler shared PG duties when Porter was out because they didn't have an adequate backup. This should tell you, me, and everyone else here that the situation Wilkins was in had as much influence on his ast numbers as anything else.



It's not an embarassment of talent.
If the mid-80s weren't the height of the SF talent pool in league history, then please name a better era. In a 23 league team in 84-85: King, Bird, English, Wilkins, Dantley, Aguirre, Erving, Nance and his 20, 9, and 3 (because he was a SF that year), Worthy, Marques Johnson. That's a better collection of top 10 talent than in any other era in league history--in a 23 team league. It also excludes a pre-injury Clark Kellogg, who averaged 19, 9, and 3 that year. The point here being that people continue to underrate Wilkins because he faced tremendous competition for all-league honors.

Mathius on Wilkins' 3-pt shooting:


He had range in the same way Michael Jordan had range. He never took the three pointers consistently, and when he did, he started making them fairly well, but it was never something he was known for.

Range doesn't necessarily mean 3-pt range. What you're also forgetting here is that Wilkins played most of his prime ball in the 80s, and the three only became a weapon a few years into the 90s. Bird averaged more attempts per game than any of the players mentioned from the 80s: 1.6 per game. Aguirre and Wilkins were at 1.4. Erving, English, Dantley, etc only took one every few games. You can't penalize a guy for not relying upon a weapon that was not used in his day. Again, we'll go back to 84/85. How many players took even 50 3s in the entire season? Only 33. A third of those guys didn't even hit 30% of them. By 94/95, nearly 4 times as many guys were using the 3. Not surprisingly, the vast majority of these guys played college ball when there was a 3 pt line. Wilkins didn't.


His defense was not great, period. It was ok. I never watched a game and saw him shut anyone down. EVER. I never heard of it happening.

My only response here is that we probably weren't watching the same games. His defense was better than 75% of the players listed above. It was never great, but it was well above average. It's something that gets lost in the 25 to 30 ppg seasons.


The one thing we can agree on was that Pippen was arguably better than Wilkins. I was referring to the guys of Wilkins' era as Nique had hit his stride by the end of his rookie year in 82/83. Pippen didn't really get there until 90/91.

[icemanfan]

Hugely underrated. Few in NbA history can match the scoring explosiveness and athleticism of prime 'Nique.
Ice could and then some......but....underrated in my opinion.

[Mathius]

The point that was apparently lost here was that you said Wilkins could score and do nothing else. Yet only a few players could even get 80% of his assist and rebound totals. That tells me he could do more than score.

Nothing was lost on me. Your stat is not only obscure, something you just pulled out of Wilkins statistics so you could make your point, but it's totally skewed.

The stat you quoted me, was 80% of Wilkins stats. But nobody scored as much as Wilkins did, that's the whole damn point. So of course nobody is going to get 80% of what he did, because everybody with the rebounds and assists, wasn't the scoring monster he was.


Said another way, let's look at what each guy did in his prime, from the ages of 25 to 30 who were within 10 years either way of Wilkins. That's 20 years of basketball. We'll look at the following guys for the duration of this post: Bird, Erving, Pippen, English, Drexler, Jordan, Wilkins, Mullin, Worthy, Dantley, King, Aguirre, and Gervin--all of them HOFers or discussed a lot at some point for the HOF. Wilkins averaged 6.8 boards a game in his prime. How many of this guys exceeded him by a single board a game? 1 (Bird). How many fell more than a board short? 6. That tells me, you, and everyone else here he could do more than score relative to some very good/great players.

Look at it however you want to. Wilkins came out in '83. His prime was in the late 80's, early 90's. That's when he won the majority of his all nba team nominees, that's when he won his second dunk contest.


Let's look at assists/game. Wilkins was at the bottom here at 2.7 a game. Who else was was within an assist better? Worthy, Dantley, Aguirre, Gervin, and King. All but one of these guys played with weak supporting casts in his prime. The guys with better ast numbers all played with guys ranging from HOFers in their prime, run TMC, or the English/Davis/Issel/Kiki 120 ppg Nuggets. Drexler shared PG duties when Porter was out because they didn't have an adequate backup. This should tell you, me, and everyone else here that the situation Wilkins was in had as much influence on his ast numbers as anything else.

What is your argument here? That there were other players who didn't have as many assists as Wilkins? SO what? You don't have to be a good player to have a lot of assists. Good players are defined as many different things.

Wilkins was an above average player. But he's still overrated, because he was clearly mainly a scorer.



If the mid-80s weren't the height of the SF talent pool in league history, then please name a better era. In a 23 league team in 84-85: King, Bird, English, Wilkins, Dantley, Aguirre, Erving, Nance and his 20, 9, and 3 (because he was a SF that year), Worthy, Marques Johnson. That's a better collection of top 10 talent than in any other era in league history--in a 23 team league. It also excludes a pre-injury Clark Kellogg, who averaged 19, 9, and 3 that year. The point here being that people continue to underrate Wilkins because he faced tremendous competition for all-league honors.

Oh, I dunno, how about the 90's, where Wilkins was still playing, Pippen, Barkley (although he played a lot more PF, but you did list Nance), Penny Hardaway pre-injury, Grant Hill pre-injury, Glen Rice, Glenn Robinson, Danny Manning (who probably won't get much credit, even though he was very talented), Sean Elliott, Detlef Schrempt, Reggie Lewis (before he died), Toni Kukoc, Chris Mullin, etc. etc. etc.

Or I could probably list at least 15 all star quality SF's that have played in this decade already.


Range doesn't necessarily mean 3-pt range. What you're also forgetting here is that Wilkins played most of his prime ball in the 80s, and the three only became a weapon a few years into the 90s. Bird averaged more attempts per game than any of the players mentioned from the 80s: 1.6 per game. Aguirre and Wilkins were at 1.4. Erving, English, Dantley, etc only took one every few games. You can't penalize a guy for not relying upon a weapon that was not used in his day. Again, we'll go back to 84/85. How many players took even 50 3s in the entire season? Only 33. A third of those guys didn't even hit 30% of them. By 94/95, nearly 4 times as many guys were using the 3. Not surprisingly, the vast majority of these guys played college ball when there was a 3 pt line. Wilkins didn't.

That whole rant, my friend, is a bunch of crap. You're forgetting a whole slew of players who made names for themselves as three point shooters, like Michael Cooper, Chuck Person, etc. They aren't superstars, but that doesn't mean crap either.

Michael Jordan was the best player in the history of the game, and he rarely took threes until late in his career.

Nobody is going to go down in history remembering Jason Kapono, but he's still a damn good three point shooter.

The fact of the matter is, if you take point guards out of the equation, you'll find that there are rarely any superstar players making a living from beyond the line. Today we have Ray Allen and Michael Redd. In the 90's we had Reggie Miller, and Glen Rice. There are probably a few more, but they're few and far between.

Get it?


My only response here is that we probably weren't watching the same games. His defense was better than 75% of the players listed above. It was never great, but it was well above average. It's something that gets lost in the 25 to 30 ppg seasons.

What are you, some kind of Hawks homer or something? There is not a single basketball expert that will call Wilkins and elite defender, but you damn well came close with that little gem. Give me a break.


The one thing we can agree on was that Pippen was arguably better than Wilkins. I was referring to the guys of Wilkins' era as Nique had hit his stride by the end of his rookie year in 82/83. Pippen didn't really get there until 90/91.

Now Wilkins "hit his stride" in 82/83? His prime years were the late 80's early 90's, period. And irregardless, maybe YOU were talking about comparing the 80's, but I wasn't.

It's just another way you narrow the field to make him look better.

Mathius

[Chicago76]

No Hawks fan here, just another old central division fan who could appreciate Nique's game.

The bottom line is you can't admit the man did more than score, which I showed you. He wasn't an elite defender, and I certainly never would call him that. He was a good defender, which is something that people who continually underrate him ignore due to his scoring and dunking. He didn't make the 50 best list, even though I've shown he was a better player than English and pretty damn even with George Gervin, who is probably well above the bottom 10 of that top 50 list. I'll agree the list makers got is right with by putting him below several SFs and big guards who played SF, Bird, Erving, Pippen, Barry, Baylor, Jordan, and Gervin (maybe). But c'mon DeBusschere (who only played defense, but not nearly as well as Pippen), Worthy, English, Maravich??

The fact is that if anyone is overrated, the last three guys I named were. Wilkins would never be the 5th or 6th player taken in an all-time draft of the players I've mentioned, but he certainly wouldn't be 12th either. That's the definition of underrated.

Since you're a Cleveland guy, I'll give you three more from my personally udnerrated list that you probably saw a lot of, although none as highly rated as Wilkins: Nance, Price, and Daugherty.

[bizil]

NO DOUBT underrated!!! Once Stern took over the NBA, he implanted KEY FACETS that could capture mainstream America! For starters, implementing the ABA All Star Weekend concept with a dunk contest. And from there add the 3 ball contest. From there, understanding that hoops was the MOST individual team sport. And knew u needed to promote the top players with the IT FACTOR to be rock stars! And get the casual fanbase on board! Once Stern got rolling, Doc and Cap were the BABE RUTHS!

Just by their greatness and swag they were key assets! But down the pike, u had Magic, Bird, Zeke, MJ, Nique, and Chuck! The All Star Weekend as we know was BASED around these ICONS! Nique was a MONUMENTAL piece to that equation! Not only was he a great player! BUT the NBA employed him to GROW the game on a worldwide level!

On those VHS tapes, posters, etc, Nique was ALWAYS a key component! So the fact that a ROCK STAR like Nique didn't get his just due was BAFFLING!!! Great longevity being a dominant player! Style of play BUILT to get casuals on board! Given the talent on his teams FOR SURE ELEVATED them to levels ONLY A SUPERSTAR could get them to! Score the MOST POINTS of any NBA SF EVER until Bron passed him by! Only player to RETURN to a superstar level after an Achilles injury! And in his 30's to boot!

[Xiao Yao You]

overrated. the Melo of his day

[tanibanana]

Overrated by men older than 35, and being underrated by majority of guys below 35.

I got to agree, he is somewhat Melo Anthony of today.
Great players, but does

[atljonesbro]

Underrated. This man went toe to toe with Larry Bird. If it wasn’t for those stacked Celtics he’d have won a few ships

[Psileas]

11 y.o thread, but anyway. I had called him controversial back then and this still stands. Maybe a bit underrated in USA and overrated in Europe, where you have people rank him in the all-time top 15-20, just because he played there and they don't really recognize eras other than the 90's.

Though he wasn't ever the most versatile player to be compared to someone like Magic or Jordan or Bird, he was the only player who wasn't afraid of constantly making his games against the Bulls personal scoring duels against prime Jordan and often outscore him. Nobody was doing it as consistently as Dominique, not Malone, not Shaq, not Hakeem - a relatively healthy Bird was probably the next best.

[Nikola_]

Properly rated

[Gotterdammerung]

Dominique Wilkins was a great player, full stop. I recall a game between the Bulls and the Hawks where Wilkins was a perfect 28-28 from the free throw line and the Hawks won. Even with Jordan and Pippen in their prime, Wilkins was the best player on the floor.

If Wilkins is overrated and underrated at the same time, then he's properly rated.

He might not have been able to beat dynasties in the 80s but that's no strike against the Human Highlight Film.

[SouBeachTalents]

Properly rated
Honestly, this. The dude is legitimately never talked about, and most of the rankings I see have him around top 50 all time

[Elosha]

^ There are so many great players, but honestly Dominique should be higher than number 50. I wouldn't necessarily put him at number 40 either, but I don't know if I can come up with 49 players better and/or better career than him. He played in an incredibly tough conference. I wouldn't really call him an ATG, but he's legit. He was feared and respected by his peers back in the day.

[Xiao Yao You]

Honestly, this. The dude is legitimately never talked about, and most of the rankings I see have him around top 50 all time

In his day he was talked about as one of the top guys in the league when in reality he was just a flashier version of many high scoring small forwards of the time like Dantley, English, King etc.

[iamgine]

Fun fact:

Nique lost to the Celtics 10 times in '86

Jordan lost to the Celtics 9 times in '87

[houston]

he overrated

[Round Mound]

People think Nique was just a dunker. The dude had a great offensive game. Maybe not the best long distance shooter but the dude was great driving and around the basket. He was a great finisher, a solid rebounder and great at put back dunks too.

[Kblaze8855]

He was voted the most overrated player in the NBA twice by the other players in the SI poll at the time. But all the players you hear talk about him now seem to think he was underrated.

Id say hes underrated because people think he was a dunker....when he was a straight up scorer. Nique was an all time great scorer who happened to be a nasty dunker. Not a dunker who could score. And people really talk about him like a dunker first.

[AussieSteve]

In his day he was talked about as one of the top guys in the league when in reality he was just a flashier version of many high scoring small forwards of the time like Dantley, English, King etc.

Nah, he was better than these guys. In his peak he led the hawks to 50+ wins 4 straight seasons, including a conference final and 2 semis. And he was a perenial all NBA during this time.

The other guys you mention couldn't carry the load on a 50+ win team as the only star.

[Xiao Yao You]

Nah, he was better than these guys. In his peak he led the hawks to 50+ wins 4 straight seasons, including a conference final and 2 semis. And he was a perenial all NBA during this time.

The other guys you mention couldn't carry the load on a 50+ win team as the only star.

All-NBA is why he is is or was at the time anyway for sure overrated

[FKAri]

In 2019, he's underrated. He's a case of people crying overrated so long they've marginalized him for the next generation.

[bizil]

Dominique Wilkins was a great player, full stop. I recall a game between the Bulls and the Hawks where Wilkins was a perfect 28-28 from the free throw line and the Hawks won. Even with Jordan and Pippen in their prime, Wilkins was the best player on the floor.

If Wilkins is overrated and underrated at the same time, then he's properly rated.

He might not have been able to beat dynasties in the 80s but that's no strike against the Human Highlight Film.

Well said! Nique NEVER played with another HOFer in their prime. He got Big Moses when Mo was past his prime. So Nique never had the teams to take down the dynasties to begin with. And the fact Nique willed those Hawks teams to multiple 50 win seasons and a Central Division crown is nothing to disregard.

The ONLY WAY I can see Nique as overrated is IF people think he was on the level of MJ-Bird-Magic-Barkley-Dream in that era. Because those legends had the balance of great scoring AND great all around ability in one package. And Nique was NEVER seen quite on that level. I'm talking top 2-3 level in the world at various points. BUT scoring wise, he was seen ON their level and could go toe to toe with them. I'm talking killer instinct and clutch factor on top of great scoring.

At BEST, he was argued as a top 2 SF and top 10 player in the league though in that era. I think Nique was worthy of that type of praise. Some guys who were better all around players WEREN'T better players. BECAUSE they weren't as DOMINANT as Nique was!

Plus if u are WIDELY KNOWN as one of MJ's and Bird's top foes, then U HAD TO BE a great player! U can't tell the story of MJ and Bird WITHOUT Nique! He played LEGENDARY ROLES in those stories!

[Stringer Bell]

He was voted the most overrated player in the NBA twice by the other players in the SI poll at the time. But all the players you hear talk about him now seem to think he was underrated.

Id say hes underrated because people think he was a dunker....when he was a straight up scorer. Nique was an all time great scorer who happened to be a nasty dunker. Not a dunker who could score. And people really talk about him like a dunker first.

Yeah. He had a reputation as a selfish, one-dimensional player in the 80s. I remember things changed a bit during the 90-91 season and was seen as being more complete and less selfish. I don

[GimmeThat]

his numbers showed that he was skillful with good techniques
longevity and volume indicates he could control the tempo

his playoff success showed versatility
the guy's in the hall of fame, right?

[eliteballer]

He was voted the most overrated player in the NBA twice by the other players in the SI poll at the time. But all the players you hear talk about him now seem to think he was underrated.

Id say hes underrated because people think he was a dunker....when he was a straight up scorer. Nique was an all time great scorer who happened to be a nasty dunker. Not a dunker who could score. And people really talk about him like a dunker first.

Highest scoring game ever vs a Jordan led squad.

#ActLikeYouKnow

[bizil]

He was voted the most overrated player in the NBA twice by the other players in the SI poll at the time. But all the players you hear talk about him now seem to think he was underrated.

Id say hes underrated because people think he was a dunker....when he was a straight up scorer. Nique was an all time great scorer who happened to be a nasty dunker. Not a dunker who could score. And people really talk about him like a dunker first.

DAMN RIGHT!! Other than 3 point shooting, Nique was very good to great at all facets of scoring. Inside the three point line, he had one of the best scoring arsenals EVER at the 3 spot. What made him special was he was an even MORE POLISHED scorer that freak athletic SF's like Hawkins and Doc before him. Which meant had the freak athletic ability AND a scoring skillset on par with English, Dantley, King, etc. in that era.

Plus Nique shot 46% from the field for his career. Which is a damn good clip for such a dominant perimeter scorer. Once he came back from the Achilles team, he FURTHER proved that he had an elite scoring skillset. Because he wasn't quite the same athletically as he was pre-injury. Even though he was still one of the most athletic SF's in the league.

[72-10]

I think it's super debatable whether he was top 50 all-time when he retired. And it's mostly due to his atrocious defensive effort or lack thereof.

[bizil]

I think it's super debatable whether he was top 50 all-time when he retired. And it's mostly due to his atrocious defensive effort or lack thereof.

SO WHY IN THE HELL did George Gervin make the list??? Nique was a better defender than him!!!! Nique was a better perimeter defender than Magic and Bird!! Nique was just as good or even a better defender than MANY of the All Star perimeter players in his era. In that era, u DIDN'T have many perimeter players who combined great scoring AND very good to great defense as package. Dumars and Pippen were among the top two way players at that time. But NEITHER was a great or alpha dog caliber scorer.

That's a HUGE REASON why MJ passed Bird and Magic by back in the day. MJ was the EXCEPTION to the rule. So it likely wasn't Nique's effort. It was just the fact the he was NEVER going to be more than an average defender. Great players are great players! U take them for their strengths and weaknesses.

Nique's strong points SUPERCEDED his weak points in such a manner that he was still a great player! And easily worthy of being in the top 50 players of all time! MANY players on that list were role players on title teams. They WEREN'T guys who could carry a team. IF they were on average teams, they WOULDN'T have even made the HOF!!! Let alone the top 50 of all time!!

[72-10]

SO WHY IN THE HELL did George Gervin make the list??? Nique was a better defender than him!!!! Nique was a better perimeter defender than Magic and Bird!! Nique was a better defender than MANY of the All Star perimeter players in his era. In that era, u DIDN'T have many perimeter players who combined great scoring AND great defense as package.

That's a HUGE REASON why MJ passed Bird and Magic by back in the day. MJ was the EXCEPTION to the rule. So it likely wasn't Nique's effort. It was just the fact the he was NEVER going to be more than an average defender. Great players are great players! U take them for their strengths and weaknesses.

Nique's strong points SUPERCEDED his weak points in such a manner that he was still a great player! And easily worthy of being in the top 50 players of all time! MANY players on that list were role players on title teams. They WEREN'T guys who could carry a team. IF they were on average teams, they WOULDN'T have even made the HOF!!! Let alone the top 50 of all time!!

Defense is half the game.

Gervin was a better offensive player who bore more of his team's scoring load, better at driving, had a wet jump shot. Wilkins was more of a finisher at/near the rim. Gervin also played more D than Wilkins did. Gervin was better at beating most of a side than Wilkins was.

[32jazz]

Id say hes underrated because people think he was a dunker....when he was a straight up scorer. Nique was an all time great scorer who happened to be a nasty dunker.

I have always liked to debate that the Lakers would have been better off long term had they picked Wilkins over Worthy with the '82 pick. Wilkins legacy certainly would have been altered playing alongside Magic/ Kareem.



The Lakers needed a go to scorer when it was obvious Kareem was no longer the consistent elite scoring threat after (85/86) Wilkins could have easily stepped into the role & been more efficient playing with Magic. Neither Wilkins or Worthy were great rebounders or defenders.

[bizil]

I have always liked to debate that the Lakers would have been better off long term had they picked Wilkins over Worthy with the '82 pick. Wilkins legacy certainly would have been altered playing alongside Magic/ Kareem.



The Lakers needed a go to scorer when it was obvious Kareem was no longer the consistent elite scoring threat after (85/86) Wilkins could have easily stepped into the role & been more efficient playing with Magic. Neither Wilkins or Worthy were great rebounders or defenders.

Nique was a very good TO great rebounding SF. He peaked at 9.0 boards a game at one point. Not many 6'8 and under perimeter players in the last 30 years have averaged 9 boards a game! If my SF can average around 7 boards a night, that's a very good rebounding SF. Nique averaged 6.7 for his career.

And the Lakers long term would have been better with Nique no doubt. Nique was a dominant scorer into his mid 30's. People gotta realize that Magic eventually became the #1 scoring option once Kareem was out of his prime. Pat Riley asked Magic to assume that mantle. If Nique was on that squad, Riley wouldn't have asked Magic to assume that mantle. BECAUSE Nique would have naturally stepped into that role. If Nique was on that Lakers team instead of Worthy, the Lakers COULD HAVE BEAT the Bulls in the Finals in '91.

I don't think people understand that as good as Worthy was scoring the rock, Nique was on another level. If Worthy was on Nique's level scoring, then Magic WOULDN'T have had to be the Lakers #1 scoring option. So the Lakers would have had two LEGIT alpha dog scorers in Nique and Magic together.

[32jazz]

Nique was a very good TO great rebounding SF. He peaked at 9.0 boards a game at one point. Not many 6'8 and under perimeter players in the last 30 years have averaged 9 boards a game! If my SF can average around 7 boards a night, that's a very good rebounding SF. Nique averaged 6.7 for his career.

And the Lakers long term would have been better with Nique no doubt. Nique was a dominant scorer into his mid 30's. People gotta realize that Magic eventually became the #1 scoring option once Kareem was out of his prime. Pat Riley asked Magic to assume that mantle. If Nique was on that squad, Riley wouldn't have asked Magic to assume that mantle. BECAUSE Nique would have naturally stepped into that role. If Nique was on that Lakers team instead of Worthy, the Lakers COULD HAVE BEAT the Bulls in the Finals in '91.

I don't think people understand that as good as Worthy was scoring the rock, Nique was on another level. If Worthy was on Nique's level scoring, then Magic WOULDN'T have had to be the Lakers #1 scoring option. So the Lakers would have had two LEGIT alpha dog scorers in Nique and Magic together.:applause:

Riley begged Magic to take over or be more agressive scoring after '86 & not Worthy for a reason. But Magic being your #1 offensive option night in & night out is not ideal & the Lakers missed that Elite scorer with an aging / retired Kareem. Nique was near automatic for near 30 ppg from 85-94 & would have been more efficient playing with Magic. Nique would have easily replaced Kareem as that elite go to guy & maybe extended the Showtime dynasty a few more seasons ( until Magics early retirement).


The only arguments I hear for Worthy over Wilkins becomes the elusive intangibles: " team player" , " better fit" , " effort" or "attitude",etc.....

[Lebron23]

He's kinda getting underrated. Watched some of his highlights he was a pretty good scorer at his peak. Even his post injury version he was still an elite scorer in the league.

[Lebron23]

Fun fact:

Nique lost to the Celtics 10 times in '86

Jordan lost to the Celtics 9 times in '87

Interesting

[Roundball_Rock]

Underrated. When the superstars of that era are discussed his name usually does not even come up. Yeah he had no team success but he was not the GM. Atlanta never put a good team around him until 94' and he ironically was traded mid-season that year.

[Whoah10115]

All-NBA is why he is is or was at the time anyway for sure overrated

King was a great player who would be on some lists if he doesn't get injured early in his prime.

Dantley is not Nique. He worked and worked to get his, kinda like a harder working Melo. Wilkins went at the other team.

[RogueBorg]

Dominique Wilkins should have been included in the 50 greatest player because he is not only a popular dunker, but he also led the Atlanta Hawks to a competitive record in the mid 1980's.

I think people underrate him because they think Wilkins failed to led his team in the NBA Finals, but during that time the Eastern Conference is one of the strongest conference in the NBA, and I think Wilkins have some historical performance againts the Detroit Pistons, and Boston Celtics.



Achievements in the NBA

1985-86 NBA Scoring Champion (30.3)
NBA All-Star Slam Dunk Champion: 1985, 1990.
NBA All-Rookie Team: 1983.
All-NBA First Team: 1986.
All-NBA Second Team: 1987, 1988, 1991, 1993.
All-NBA Third Team: 1989, 1994.
Nine-time NBA All-Star: 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994.

So this was the very debate back in 1996 or 1997 whenever the 50 Greatest Team was chosen. Who do you remove and replace with Nique? It couldn't have been Laettner, they wanted one college player. They wanted Mullin as the outside sharp-shooter so who knows.

[Roundball_Rock]

So this was the very debate back in 1996 or 1997 whenever the 50 Greatest Team was chosen. Who do you remove and replace with Nique? It couldn't have been Laettner, they wanted one college player. They wanted Mullin as the outside sharp-shooter so who knows.

You appear to be conflating the Dream Team with the 50 Greatest list.

ESPN has Nique 46th, Slam 41st. Simmons had him 55th in 2009 and Wilkins probably is down 5-7 spots since then. So he appears to be in the 40-60 range. That is a wide variance but when you get to the 40th, 50th, 60th players the gaps between the players are smaller than between 20th and 40th or 10th and 30th.

[RogueBorg]

You appear to be conflating the Dream Team with the 50 Greatest list.

ESPN has Nique 46th, Slam 41st. Simmons had him 55th in 2009 and Wilkins probably is down 5-7 spots since then. So he appears to be in the 40-60 range. That is a wide variance but when you get to the 40th, 50th, 60th players the gaps between the players are smaller than between 20th and 40th or 10th and 30th.

You're right, Laettner and Mullin were Dream Team discussions. Wilkins was as sort of debated for the Dream Team and for surely the 50 Greatest Players in 1996 which is what this discussion is about.

But it goes back to, who would you have removed from the all-time team?

[Roundball_Rock]

People forget Drexler was the guy who took the final spot. Drexler and Laetnner were the last two added to the team. So if people want to add someone to the Dream Team, Drexler is the guy you have to took off since he was the last pick. Laetnner or Shaq were going to get a spot because they wanted a college player.

Magic, Bird were on the Dream Team for lifetime achievement. Magic wasn't even playing in the NBA anymore. Those are two logical players to remove if you are going by performance circa 92'. Mullin would be next.

Ultimately the Dream Team was so dominant it wouldn't have mattered who was on it. So they basically picked the best players in the league plus Magic, Bird. Hakeem was an exception but he was not an American citizen at the time so he was not eligible.

If I selected the DT I would have Wilkins instead of Mullin but he did not have a case over Drexler at the time. Drexler was a top 5 player in 92'; Wilkins never got to that kind of peak.

[Nowitness]

Still remember watching a segment on Open Court where shaq said it’s crazy how Bill Walton is a top 50 player but Nique isn’t.

Walton in 3 healthy seasons was MVP, FMVP, All-NNA first team, Sixth Man and would have been DPOY had it existed.

Wilkins in 16 healthy seasons won a dunk content, scored empty baskets and made one ECSF (had to go to Greece to get a ring).

Overrated.