Dwight Howard= Most overrated player in the game

[eliteballer]

I really don't see where people come from when they automatically rank Howard up there with the absolute best big men in the game. You know, a top 5 center with the likes of Amare, Yao. For example, what makes him better than Marcus Camby? Jermaine O'Neal? Chris Bosh? Pau Gasol? These guys are ALL better shot-blockers(In JO and Camby's cases, better defensive players period than Howard), comparable or better scorers. The only edges Howard has over JO and Gasol are rebounding, and scoring efficiency. So what makes him DECISIVELY better? Sure, he COULD be this coming season. Yet for the last couple of years people have been doing it. I mean Al Jefferson right now is a comparable players. 16/11/1.5/1.3 in 3 less minutes a game. What makes Howard clearly better than all these guys? You know, other than the fact that people get caught up in the hype of him being a super athletic #1 pick...

[Hawker]

I really don't see where people come from when they automatically rank Howard up there with the absolute best big men in the game. You know, a top 5 center with the likes of Amare, Yao. For example, what makes him better than Marcus Camby? Jermaine O'Neal? Chris Bosh? Pau Gasol? These guys are ALL better shot-blockers(In JO and Camby's cases, better defensive players period than Howard), comparable or better scorers. The only edges Howard has over JO and Gasol are rebounding, and scoring efficiency. So what makes him DECISIVELY better? Sure, he COULD be this coming season. Yet for the last couple of years people have been doing it. I mean Al Jefferson right now is a comparable players. 16/11/1.5/1.3 in 3 less minutes a game. What makes Howard clearly better than all these guys? You know, other than the fact that people get caught up in the hype of him being a super athletic #1 pick...

Are Gasol and O'neal centers?

If you look at his rebounding stats...they are pretty insane especially those monster rebounding games he had. I think people value his potential a lot and put him up there. I did that same thing last year.

[Richie2k6]

I completely agree. He is overrated. When you really look at him, he's a dunking rebounder. An upgraded Stromile Swift if you will. He averages about 10 shots per game. He doesn't get many set offensive plays for him because he doesn't have much skill. Most of his points come off of garbage buckets and offensive rebounds and dunks. He even led the league in dunks in 2006. That proves that's pretty much his entire game - dunking. Not to mention the fact that he's a bad passer, turnover prone, and a bad free throw shooter. I just can't understand how people rank him so highly. What is it, the hype? There's no way he's better than Yao, Shaq, Amare, Gasol, O'Neal. People put him in the top 3 centers? I find that absurd. He's too raw and has very little talent, just athleticism. In fact, a few days ago I was thinking of making a topic about this. Barkley even said it himself:

"If Dwight Howard can't get a clear look for a dunk or layup, he won't score."

[RapsFan]

I don't know about overrated. I think he is what he is......basically the first big you would take if starting a franchise today. He's pretty darn good for such a young age, and got better in his second season and probably will get better this year. There isn't a single GM in the league that would take Marcus Camby over Dwight Howard.

[Kblaze8855]

I was gonna mention the center thing but Howard came in as a 4 didnt he? If not...my bad. Amare was a 4 who became a center. Both id just call bigmen and drop it.

Of players 6'10'' and up id say the following are better than Howard

Duncan
KG
Dirk
Yao
Gasol
Amare
Shaq

Boozer has a case. So does Brand.

Thats about it

Bosh and Jermaine Oneal dont interest me. bosh even less than JO. Neither impress me much. Camby...better all around. Not exactly more effective. Okafor is a better defender and may have more offensive skills even if he doesnt show them. chandler is a better defender and maybe even a better rebounder. But the lack of offfense makes him worse to me.

[eliteballer]

I forgot about Okafor and Curry. Mehmet Okur. Hell Big Ben right now is a comparable player in terms of overall impact.

[Kblaze8855]

I'll pass on Okur and Curry. Okur lost some respect in the playoffs. Played some solid D though. i will give him that.

[Richie2k6]

Boozer has a case. So does Brand.
A case? Boozer and Brand are easily better than Howard to me.

Bosh and Jermaine Oneal dont interest me.
Bosh is better than Dwight to me as well. Where is this stuff coming from? I seriously don't understand. He is unbeliavebly raw, has almost no post skills, he misses layups right under the rim, he's not someone you give the ball to in the post and say "get me two points by yourself". You have to create for him most of the time or let him work off of garbage plays. What is Dwight Howard? A rebounding defender. That's just about it.

Take off about 4 boards off of his rebounds and he's nothing but a decent rebounding dunker. If you were to take off 4 boards from his average he wouldn't be special at all. People let his rebounding skill overshadow his whole game.

[Richie2k6]

People say he has potential, okay, he does. He will gain talent and not be so raw offensively and he will become more mature, controlled and a smarter player. Yes, I know. But that's the future, I'm talking about right now. Right now, he's simply not that amazing to me. Again, people let his physique and rebounds overshadow his overall game. His back to the basket game is flat out bad. When he puts the ball on the floor? He turns it over. When he goes up agressively for a layup? Chances are he will be too out of control and he might miss. And again, he is truely a bad passer. Not below average, bad. He turns it over way too much, he's terrible at passing out of double teams, he can easily be doubled and stripped. Hell, Al Jefferson has a solid case for being near Dwight on a big man list.

Yeah, he upside is great, but right now? I just don't understand where all this Dwight > Shaq, Gasol, O'Neal, Brand, Bosh, Boozer stuff is coming from. I honestly do not understand.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I agree he is very overrated. Yes he has potential so people should wait until he lives up to it not just give him ratings now.

Big men better:

Duncan
Garnett
Boozer
Amare
Dirk
Brand
Gasol
JO
Shaq
Bosh

People like Al Jefferson, Brad Miller have more talent and skill than him.

[Kblaze8855]

Something about Bosh just makes me think hes gonna be one of those guys who puts up like 21-23 a game for 4 years then drops to 18...and ends his career with an 6 year run of 13-17ppg seasons for teams that suck. Real Shareef Abdur-Rahim feel. Another guy I lost all interest in when I saw him in the playoffs. Id be fine with him as a #2. I wouldnt want Bosh as my franchise player at the moment.

[eliteballer]

Well if we're going into full fleged PF's then I gotta throw Randolph and Marion in there. Randolph's a 20/11 player!

[Uchiha_Hai]

True. A lot of big men in this league are overrated. Among some of them are:

Dwight
Bynum
Kaman
Darko
Tyrus Thomas

[Kblaze8855]

Tyrus, Darko, and Kaman are rarely even mentioned. Id say Kaman is still underrated.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Well if we're going into full fleged PF's then I gotta throw Randolph and Marion in there. Randolph's a 20/11 player! Forgot Randolph yeah he is better at offense but his defense pretty bad so its a toss up. Marion isn't really a bigman but yeah he is better.

[RoseCity07]

I agree. People in other threads are talking about how he will destroy Oden. Oden lead his team to the NCAA finals in his first year. Dominated with one hand, has way better foot work than Howard as well.

I've never seen Howard do anything other than jump really high to get a rebound and wide open dunks. It's almost as bad as the Gilbert Arenas hype, make 1 game winning shot and your the greatest.

Dwight Howard is overrated.

[Da KO King]

I agree. People in other threads are talking about how he will destroy Oden. Oden lead his team to the NCAA finals in his first year. Dominated with one hand, has way better foot work than Howard as well.
Yes, Dwight Howard is over-rated. However, he would in fact give Greg Oden the bizness.

[The Answer]

People like Al Jefferson, Brad Miller have more talent and skill than him.


He's too raw and has very little talent, just athleticism.

Could either of you define talent for me? To me, talent should be defined as innate physical abilities that give one an advantage in a particular field, qualities which Dwight is blessed with in abundance. He is huge(with very wide shoulders which will ultimately allow him to bulk up even more) and possesses extraordinary running and jumping abilities, particularly for his size. How are these attributes not talent?

Perhaps you are confusing talent with what I would consider skill. Skills are developed, whereas talent is all about genetics. It is your ceiling, the maximum potential one can reach. Take Hakeem and Shaq, for instance. Hakeem developed far more skills than O'Neal. He had vastly superior footwork, and mastered far more post moves. It didn't matter though. Despite Olajuwon's superior skills, he was ultimately unable to match Shaq's production. Why? Talent. Shaq was extraordinarily powerful. That coupled with unique nimbleness and insane explosiveness made him one of the most incredible talents the league has ever seen.

Talent is not about how good a person is, it's about how good they could be, and Dwight has the potential to be a HOFer. After all, untalented guys aren't selected number one in the draft.

[The Answer]

BTW, I was not implying that Shaq was not skilled or Hakeem was not talented. That notion is utterly false. Rather, I was using them to emphasize the difference between what I consider talent and what I consider skill

[Darius]

I usually avoid throwing a homer hat into the ring but:

Howard better than Brand???

How can that be?

Brand averages 20/10/2.5 a year.

Howard's offensive repitoire is nowhere near advanced enough to be compared to Brand.

I wouldn't even definitively say he is a better rebounder than Brand. If Brand focused soley on rebounding rather than facilitating the offense I think he could average near the same.

[Noob Saibot]

It's almost as bad as the Gilbert Arenas hype, make 1 game winning shot and your the greatest.

or scoring 60 points at Staples.

right now, Howard LOOKS overrated and guys he's just 21, but by the time he develops a jumpshot and a post game, man WATCH OUT, the next Shawn Kemp!

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Could either of you define talent for me? To me, talent should be defined as innate physical abilities that give one an advantage in a particular field, qualities which Dwight is blessed with in abundance. He is huge(with very wide shoulders which will ultimately allow him to bulk up even more) and possesses extraordinary running and jumping abilities, particularly for his size. How are these attributes not talent?

Perhaps you are confusing talent with what I would consider skill. Skills are developed, whereas talent is all about genetics. It is your ceiling, the maximum potential one can reach. Take Hakeem and Shaq, for instance. Hakeem developed far more skills than O'Neal. He had vastly superior footwork, and mastered far more post moves. It didn't matter though. Despite Olajuwon's superior skills, he was ultimately unable to match Shaq's production. Why? Talent. Shaq was extraordinarily powerful. That coupled with unique nimbleness and insane explosiveness made him one of the most incredible talents the league has ever seen.

Talent is not about how good a person is, it's about how good they could be, and Dwight has the potential to be a HOFer. After all, untalented guys aren't selected number one in the draft.
If he was born with a broad frame how is that talent?

To me talent is something your good at, like am talented at spinning a ball on my finger.I agree with your point about talent coming naturally. I never said that he didn't have talent I said that Brad Miller and Al Jefferson were more talented. Which means that they have more natural talent to do some things. Saying Dwight doesn't have talent is not right but I said that certain people have more talent.

For example:
Al Jefferson has more natural post talent a better back to the basket game.
Brad Miller has natural passing skills which Dwight doesn't have.

[The Answer]

If he was born with a broad frame how is that talent?

Because it has, and will continue to, help him build muscle which he can use to overpower players in the post.



To me talent is something your good at


I disagree with that. Being talented is not being good in a particular area. Rather, it's an edge that allows one to become better than another less talented person. See the difference?



I never said that he didn't have talent I said that Brad Miller and Al Jefferson were more talented. Which means that they have more natural talent to do some things. Saying Dwight doesn't have talent is not right but I said that certain people have more talent.



I consider Al Jefferson to be very talented, though still not on par with Howard, so I won't touch that, but Brad Miller? I don't see that at all. Miller's more skilled, but he doesn't, and never, had the potential that Dwight has. That's why he's less talented. Again, talent is determined by how good a player could be, not how good or skilled they are.

[EricForman]

I really don't see where people come from when they automatically rank Howard up there with the absolute best big men in the game. You know, a top 5 center with the likes of Amare, Yao. For example, what makes him better than Marcus Camby? Jermaine O'Neal? Chris Bosh? Pau Gasol? These guys are ALL better shot-blockers(In JO and Camby's cases, better defensive players period than Howard), comparable or better scorers. The only edges Howard has over JO and Gasol are rebounding, and scoring efficiency. So what makes him DECISIVELY better? Sure, he COULD be this coming season. Yet for the last couple of years people have been doing it. I mean Al Jefferson right now is a comparable players. 16/11/1.5/1.3 in 3 less minutes a game. What makes Howard clearly better than all these guys? You know, other than the fact that people get caught up in the hype of him being a super athletic #1 pick...

Why the hell do you think Dwight started over Amare in Team USA then?

If you actually watched the game--especially Team USA vs Argentina--you will see Amare is a big who doesn't play D and is only an average rebounder. Dwight is a big that plays D, takes up the paint and rebounds.

Amare is a face-the-basket scorer. Dwight is an inside force.

I take Dwight over Amare any day.

And wha tmakes him better than Camby or JO?

There's thing called potential, when a kid comes out of high school and immediately starts dropping 20/20s, you just give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's going to be a monster, especially one that LOOKS the way Dwight Howard does. Kinda like, you know, when Lebron came out of high school and dropped 20, 6, 6 a game, people had to stop hatinga nd assume he was going to be a future "top five player" based on his rookie year alone.

[Richie2k6]

And wha tmakes him better than Camby or JO?

There's thing called potential, when a kid comes out of high school and immediately starts dropping 20/20s, you just give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's going to be a monster, especially one that LOOKS the way Dwight Howard does. Kinda like, you know, when Lebron came out of high school and dropped 20, 6, 6 a game, people had to stop hatinga nd assume he was going to be a future "top five player" based on his rookie year alone.
So you're saying his potential, not current skill level is what makes him better than O'Neal? So I can go ahead and say Bynum > Gasol, because of his potential? (Yeah, Bynum is overrated, but just an example.)

[WoGiTaLiA1]

For example, what makes him better than Marcus Camby? Jermaine O'Neal? Chris Bosh? Pau Gasol?

Only one of them even plays center. Being a top 5 center is pretty meaningless. After Yao and Shaq there isnt a center who impacts the game(throw in Amare if you consider him a C). So Dwight, Camby or whoever else you want to throw in as the other members of the top 5 are good role players.

Dwight is certainly overrated. He certainly has a lot of potential though but I dont see him being the star a lot of people do. He looks like Kevin Willis and he plays like him. He isnt as good a defender, rebounder or scorer though. Not yet but he could be but I see a guy who looks like he has spent all his training time so far in the gym. He has gotten noticably bigger but he hasnt added any basketball skills and for that reason I cant see him being a star.

Doesn't matter, Orlando handcuffed itself in to being the easts Minnesota regardless with the Lewis move. They are never going to challenge for a title(unless Dwight goes superhuman) and they are never going to be awful enough to get the draft picks that really matter. The joys of being a Magic fan!

[EricForman]

So you're saying his potential, not current skill level is what makes him better than O'Neal? So I can go ahead and say Bynum > Gasol, because of his potential? (Yeah, Bynum is overrated, but just an example.)


But that's too far fetched an example. Bynum hasn't done nothing.

It's not as ridiculous to assume Dwight will be a monster after his rookie year based on what he did. Him and Lebron are the only two straight out of high schoolers to hang right away and didn't get pushed/shoved around. Look at Kobe, Tmac, KG, when they was 18. Then you look at Lebron/Dwight when they was 18, quite frankly it's not far fetcehd at all to assume they will be monsters because they're so far ahead.

But you know what, Dwight doubters will always say the same thing. This went back to the whole Bosh vs Dwight thing from back then where the Bosh fans claims Bosh is as good at Dwight in everything and he's a better scorer...because they look at just numbers and see Dwight at 17 and 11 and it's not that crazy. They rather take Amare's 25 and 9, even though Amare doesn't play D, doesn't rebound, and is basically a 3 playing the 5.

I mean all that needs to be said is this--there isn't a GM out there who wouldn't take Dwight over every big man in the league but Yao/Amare/Duncan/KG in a HEARTBEAT. Comparing Dwight to JO or Gasol? Indiana would drop JO, and half the roster for Dwight and an ipod right now on the spot

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Because it has, and will continue to, help him build muscle which he can use to overpower players in the post. But actually having broad shoulders isn't a talent.



I disagree with that. Being talented is not being good in a particular area. Rather, it's an edge that allows one to become better than another less talented person. See the difference? I guess I get what you saying. That if you are naturally talented at something you have an edge over someone who doesn't. I'm still confused on how thats so different from being good at something.



I consider Al Jefferson to be very talented, though still not on par with Howard, so I won't touch that, but Brad Miller? I don't see that at all. Miller's more skilled, but he doesn't, and never, had the potential that Dwight has. That's why he's less talented. Again, talent is determined by how good a player could be, not how good or skilled they are.
So you are saying that Miller's passing ability is a skill not a talent? I don't really understand how you are differentiating between what is talent and what isn't.

So Al Jefferson's post abilities are not talent? Because they are superior to Howard's.

[TheHonestTruth]

You are confusing Dwight Howard with Kobe Bryant. Step back and put down the crackpipe.

[Jimmy2k8]

You are confusing Dwight Howard with Kobe Bryant. Step back and put down the crackpipe.




:rolleyes:

[Nym]

Are you guys nuts??? Overrated???

Look what this guy has already accomplished:




played and started in every game the first season, averaging 11.4 ppg., 10.1 rpg. and 1.71 blkpg….Howard would become the first player in NBA history to start in every regular season outing during his rookie campaign coming directly out of high school.

[Richie2k6]

played and started in every game this season for the Magic (75 games), averaging 11.4 ppg., 10.1 rpg. and 1.71 blkpg….Howard would become the first player in NBA history to start in every regular season outing during his rookie campaign coming directly out of high school.

He started all his games out of high school? That's great, not unbelievably rare and extrordinarily spectacular.
[quote]

[ForceOfNature]

Howard isn't overrated. His ability to get double-doubles easily puts him over most of the big men in the league.

[WildStyle]

There's not much for me to say because Dwight will prove it on the court why he is one of ther very best bigs in the game.

I will however say this...

Dwight Howard is NOT a horrible passer. His turnovers do not come from bad passing out of double teams. His turnovers come from offensive fouls, travels and getting stripped when putting the ball on the floor mostly. He has shown some very good passing ability actually. Putting up games of 5 or 6 assists (something Curry couldn't do in a week).

Last season Orlando had the most predictable offense in the league. Walk the ball up, hand it to Dwight in the post and stand still. All the while defenses can play 2 feet off there man as there were no shooters other than the streaky Turkoglu on the floor. Meaning Dwight has very little room to operate.

Dwight very rarely gets set up by good passing. The Magic guards can barely make a post entry pass, let alone threading the needle. Despite all of that Dwight still managed 18 ppg (and led his team to the playoffs) in the slowest most predictable offense in the league. Dwight has to work for nearly every point he scores. And you are wrong about him just scoring on offensive rebounds. A lot of his points come on one on one moves.

[Shogon Vendetta]

He's the only player ever other than Wilt to average 70%+ on field goals for an entire month. Overrated.

[KWALI]

Something about Bosh just makes me think hes gonna be one of those guys who puts up like 21-23 a game for 4 years then drops to 18...and ends his career with an 6 year run of 13-17ppg seasons for teams that suck. Real Shareef Abdur-Rahim feel. Another guy I lost all interest in when I saw him in the playoffs. Id be fine with him as a #2. I wouldnt want Bosh as my franchise player at the moment.

WHen did you see Shareef in teh play-offs? In like his 8th season in teh League at least Bosh can get a team to teh play-offs...... I understand his underwhelmingness overall he's not ever gonna be a post beat which would make him formidable but he's not Reef....

[Q.E.C]

Dwight is definitely one of the top players in the league. Its hard for a big man to come out of high school and have an impact in the league. I also think he's better than Amare due to the fact that Steve Nash the two time MVP makes it possible for almost anybody to average double figure scoring. Orlando's guards are suspect at best, which basically means Dwight does what he does almost by himself.

[Kblaze8855]

WHen did you see Shareef in teh play-offs? In like his 8th season in teh League at least Bosh can get a team to teh play-offs...... I understand his underwhelmingness overall he's not ever gonna be a post beat which would make him formidable but he's not Reef....

I meant Bosh is a guy I lost interest in not SAR. I stopped caring about him his firat year as a Hawk.

[2LeTTeRS KD]

Even if Howard is just a rebounder and defender than those skills alone are good enough to make him a top 5 center. Add in the fact that no matter how limited and unpolished his offensive game is he still finds a way to score more than all but 4 centers I don't see how you can down the guy for it. And in comparison with the other bigs mentioned in the game:

- Camby: People say Camby is better but Howard is better at man D, a better rebounder and scores more than him at a better percentage. I take Howard 10 times out of 10 over Camby.
- O'Neal: JO is more skilled, but doesn't use it effectively by hanging on the perimeter and shootring horribly from the field when he has the ability to score 25 a game if he chose to. He is a better defender than Howard but a much worse rebounder. I take O'Neal but honestly not by much.
- Gasol: Pau is just flat-out better but not a C and with Darko there will not be playing anytime at the 5 at all.

[Nym]

Yes, Amare and Shaq are both better than Howard. I don't see how Howard is better than either of them. Explain. And also, instead of listing purely accolades, how about explaining what makes him so great on the court skill-wise.

I didn't say he was better than Shaquille O'Neal, I meant Jermaine O'neal. Jermaine didn't accomplish anything until he got older and when he was in Indiana. As a matter of fact, there was once a headline in a newspaper titled "Clueless in Portland" , an article about Jermaine's struggles in the NBA.

And to start every game in high school not being rare? Dwight is the only NBA player to do so. If he struggled so badly like most high schoolers do when they enter in the NBA, he wouldn't be starting.

And also your seeming to miss the point about Dwight being consistently on the lists of achievement with Robinson, Shaq, Olajuwon, etc... it just shows that Dwight is on his way to being one of the all time greats like Shaq, Robinson, Olajuwon.

[Richie2k6]

And to start every game in high school not being rare? Dwight is the only NBA player to do so. If he struggled so badly like most high schoolers do when they enter in the NBA, he wouldn't be starting.
Incase you haven't noticed, the Magic were a very low franchise. How do you think they got he first pick? They had 21 wins the year before. Their other front court post player next to Dwight when he came in? Kelvin Cato. The reason he started all of his games is because the roster wasn't very good in the frontcourt.

That's why I'm saying him starting all of his games is nothing special. When a high schooler averages a double double and dominates high school, of course he's going to start on your franchise when the rest of your team isn't very good. That's completely natural. Like when Lebron got drafted. Of course he was going to start, the team wasn't very good and he instantly became the franchise player. Him starting all of him games isn't that spectacular, it's automatic. And even so, him starting games doesn't make him any better of a player, which is what I'm debating about here.


And also your seeming to miss the point about Dwight being consistently on the lists of achievement with Robinson, Shaq, Olajuwon, etc... it just shows that Dwight is on his way to being one of the all time greats like Shaq, Robinson, Olajuwon.
Sure he has the potential, but he doesn't have the skill yet. In a few years he'll be amazing, but what about right now? Right now he's a 15/13 dunking defender, that's it. He's almost offensively handicapped to be honest, in terms of fundamentals. He doesn't get many plays run directly for him because he's not much of an offensive player. He gets his points off of offensive rebounds, put backs, open dunks, etc. I mean come on, he's the franchise player and he averages 10 shots per game. His turnovers have been going up since his rookie year. 2.0, 2.6, 3.9. And it's not like half the reason they go up is because his minutes went up. His minutes since his rookie year? 32, 36, 36. Not to mention his atrocious free throw shooting, the fact that his post game is almost non-existent, and he has absolutely no jumpshot whatsoever. Not that he needs one, just saying.

I just can't put him ahead of Shaq, Jermaine, Amare, Gasol, Brand, Boozer, Bosh.

[Richie2k6]

Dwight Howard's Career Accomplishments:

- NBA All-Star: 2007
- All-NBA Third Team: 2007
- NBA All-Rookie First Team: 2005
- Gold medal winner with team USA basketball at the 2007 FIBA World Championships.

And that's after having a good amount of minutes since his rookie year, playing in the Eastern Conference and being a center, a very weak position in today's NBA. His Eastern competition for centers? An aging Shaquille O'Neal, Ben Wallace and maybe Emeka Okafor pretty much. Now let's look at the accomplishments Dwyane Wade had after his first 3 years.


- NBA Champion: 2006
- NBA Finals MVP: 2006
- 2-time NBA All-Star: 2005, 2006
- 2-time All-NBA:
Second Team: 2005, 2006

- All-Defense Second Team: 2005
- NBA All-Rookie Team: 2004
- NBA All-Star Skills Challenge Champion: 2006
- Bronze medal winner with team USA basketball at the 2004 Olympics in Athens, Greece.
- Bronze medal winner with team USA basketball at the 2006 FIBA World Championships.
- 2006 Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year.

Wade accomplished twice, maybe 3 times as much as Dwight in his first 3 years and he's a guard in the Eastern Conference. His competition for guards? Gilbert Arenas, Allen Iverson (back then), Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Andre Iguodala, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton.

Howard hasn't accomplished much up until now because he doesn't have much skill, and he hasn't been a winner.

[Uchiha_Hai]

Dwight Howard's Career Accomplishments:

- NBA All-Star: 2007
- All-NBA Third Team: 2007
- NBA All-Rookie First Team: 2005
- Gold medal winner with team USA basketball at the 2007 FIBA World Championships.

And that's after having a good amount of minutes since his rookie year, playing in the Eastern Conference and being a center, a very weak position in today's NBA. His Eastern competition for centers? An aging Shaquille O'Neal, Ben Wallace and maybe Emeka Okafor pretty much. Now let's look at the accomplishments Dwyane Wade had after his first 3 years.


- NBA Champion: 2006
- NBA Finals MVP: 2006
- 2-time NBA All-Star: 2005, 2006
- 2-time All-NBA:
Second Team: 2005, 2006

- All-Defense Second Team: 2005
- NBA All-Rookie Team: 2004
- NBA All-Star Skills Challenge Champion: 2006
- Bronze medal winner with team USA basketball at the 2004 Olympics in Athens, Greece.
- Bronze medal winner with team USA basketball at the 2006 FIBA World Championships.
- 2006 Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year.

Wade accomplished twice, maybe 3 times as much as Dwight in his first 3 years and he's a guard in the Eastern Conference. His competition for guards? Gilbert Arenas, Allen Iverson (back then), Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Andre Iguodala, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton.

Howard hasn't accomplished much up until now because he doesn't have much skill, and he hasn't been a winner.

Wade wouldn't of accomplished most of that if it weren't for the addition of Shaq to the team.

[Richie2k6]

Wade wouldn't of accomplished most of that if it weren't for the addition of Shaq to the team.
He would have accomplished everything I just said except maybe the championship. Other than that, it's all Wade.

[Mathius]

I dunno about overrated, but as talented as they are, I think Howard and Stoudemire would be be 4's in the 90's. The NBA keeps getting smaller and softer. These two would be able to hang with any 4's during the 90's, but I still think they wouldn't play center.

Mathius

[eauclaire447]

I agree. People in other threads are talking about how he will destroy Oden. Oden lead his team to the NCAA finals in his first year. Dominated with one hand, has way better foot work than Howard as well.

I've never seen Howard do anything other than jump really high to get a rebound and wide open dunks. It's almost as bad as the Gilbert Arenas hype, make 1 game winning shot and your the greatest.

Dwight Howard is overrated.
one game winning shot?? there have been several. hes not the GREATEST, but hes mos def not over hyped

[eauclaire447]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwfQD2azulc

[WildStyle]

Can't take you seriously anymore Richie. You obviously never watch the Magic. No plays run for him?! He get's the ball in the post almost every time down the court!

[Manute for Ever!]

Something tells me that, in the long run, Emeka will be the one that comes up big out of that draft. Call it gut feeling, but there is just something about the guy. STRICTLY MY OPINION

[Mr_Basketball#1]

I really don't see where people come from when they automatically rank Howard up there with the absolute best big men in the game. You know, a top 5 center with the likes of Amare, Yao. For example, what makes him better than Marcus Camby? Jermaine O'Neal? Chris Bosh? Pau Gasol? These guys are ALL better shot-blockers(In JO and Camby's cases, better defensive players period than Howard), comparable or better scorers. The only edges Howard has over JO and Gasol are rebounding, and scoring efficiency. So what makes him DECISIVELY better? Sure, he COULD be this coming season. Yet for the last couple of years people have been doing it. I mean Al Jefferson right now is a comparable players. 16/11/1.5/1.3 in 3 less minutes a game. What makes Howard clearly better than all these guys? You know, other than the fact that people get caught up in the hype of him being a super athletic #1 pick...
Do you still feel the same way now?

[Kiddlovesnets]

The trouble with Howard is that his only offensive approach is to dunk, dunk and dunk. If he becomes unable to dunk someday, he's even worse than Foyle.

[wang4three]

The trouble with Howard is that his only offensive approach is to dunk, dunk and dunk. If he becomes unable to dunk someday, he's even worse than Foyle.
I thought that was a strength.

[Younggrease]

The trouble with Howard is that his only offensive approach is to dunk, dunk and dunk. If he becomes unable to dunk someday, he's even worse than Foyle.

well he has been improving his post game and it has shown this year so far...Imo he is a top 2 center in the game and better then Amare

[Eldrunko247]

Dwight Howard is getting way too much hype. He's a good player but let's see.

[el_locoteee]

DH is a player in progress and he is wining right now, leave him alone, ppl always love to over hype their favorite players, is not his fault, he trying to get better and he is young. Right now he is one of the best big mens, more so in the East and he will be the Eastern conference Starting center if ppl don't start voting for pass his prime Shaq.

Who care if he is the best, he is wining and learning.

[eliteballer]

I really don't see where people come from when they automatically rank Howard up there with the absolute best big men in the game. You know, a top 5 center with the likes of Amare, Yao. For example, what makes him better than Marcus Camby? Jermaine O'Neal? Chris Bosh? Pau Gasol? These guys are ALL better shot-blockers(In JO and Camby's cases, better defensive players period than Howard), comparable or better scorers. The only edges Howard has over JO and Gasol are rebounding, and scoring efficiency. So what makes him DECISIVELY better? Sure, he COULD be this coming season. Yet for the last couple of years people have been doing it. I mean Al Jefferson right now is a comparable players. 16/11/1.5/1.3 in 3 less minutes a game. What makes Howard clearly better than all these guys? You know, other than the fact that people get caught up in the hype of him being a super athletic #1 pick...

:rolleyes:

[Doomsday Dallas]

The title of this thread hurt my feelings.

[Diesel J]

The trouble with Howard is that his only offensive approach is to dunk, dunk and dunk. If he becomes unable to dunk someday, he's even worse than Foyle.

actually he has low post moves with both hands.he's more than just a dunker.

[Younggrease]

I agree. People in other threads are talking about how he will destroy Oden. Oden lead his team to the NCAA finals in his first year. Dominated with one hand, has way better foot work than Howard as well.

I've never seen Howard do anything other than jump really high to get a rebound and wide open dunks. It's almost as bad as the Gilbert Arenas hype, make 1 game winning shot and your the greatest.

Dwight Howard is overrated.

this has to be a joke...Howard would have dominated NCAA like Oden failed to do. Oden was a liability for a lot of games in the tourney while Dwight would beast every1 in college. Howard right now is head and shoulders above Oden and Oden needs to just worry about trying not to be a bust because dude is not messing Howard

[gts]

The title of this thread hurt my feelings.dwight howard not josh howard...or are you suddenly a magic fan

[IamRAMBO24]

So much hate for Howard. There is too much emphasis on scoring, so I can see where the hate is coming from. News flash: you don't need to be a great scorer to be a great player. Russell and Wallace have proven this.

I haven't seen much of Howard, but all I know is this: the Magic is 9-2 and a serious Eastern Conference contender. For all his offensive downfalls he is obviously doing something right: winning ballgames. This is reason enough to believe in the hype.

[hito da god]

how the hell can a phyisical specimen such as howard make it to the NBA and not have a developed post game? that's sad...

[yeaaaman]

The trouble with Howard is that his only offensive approach is to dunk, dunk and dunk. If he becomes unable to dunk someday, he's even worse than Foyle.

kiddlovesnets you clearly dont watch dwight howard enough to maket hat comment thats just stupid it doesnt even need explaining

[yeaaaman]

how the hell can a phyisical specimen such as howard make it to the NBA and not have a developed post game? that's sad...

if he hasnt developed a post game and he's averaging 22 pts per game at a high efficiency, theres nothing sad about that its even more impressive

anyways he has developed a post game, again thats just an ignorant comment... go watch a cpl magic games and come back and tell me the same thing, if you do you really dont know basketball

[Y2Gezee]

He still has some developing to do offensively, but to say he doesn't have a post game is ignorant. He's like a little Shaq. Quick spin move for the dunk, uses his power, sealing guys off after great positioning, quick dribble past his man and finish, baby hook shot.

His footwork could be a little better in that style, but he's pretty damn good offensively as the numbers show.

He's a great rebounder, good defender, shotblocker. People are so excited over him because he is still so young and can improve things like a jumpshot, passing and patience in the post.

Out of all the young bigs I'd take him. I mean Amare is a subpar defender and really rebounder at his position. Boozer can't defend...Bosh? Nah.

Okafor is probably the most overall skilled young big, but injuries and maybe a lack of drive hold him back. He is probably the best defender of the bunch...in the mix for rebounding and has the most low post offensive ability

[IamRAMBO24]

h.

Okafor is probably the most overall skilled young big, but injuries and maybe a lack of drive hold him back. He is probably the best defender of the bunch...in the mix for rebounding and has the most low post offensive ability

I don't know, I see Okafor surpassing Howard in their prime.

[kidachi]

someone considers D.Howard overrated.

he's officially a "Superstar".

[foxx0]

I really don't see where people come from when they automatically rank Howard up there with the absolute best big men in the game. You know, a top 5 center with the likes of Amare, Yao. For example, what makes him better than Marcus Camby? Jermaine O'Neal? Chris Bosh? Pau Gasol? These guys are ALL better shot-blockers(In JO and Camby's cases, better defensive players period than Howard), comparable or better scorers. The only edges Howard has over JO and Gasol are rebounding, and scoring efficiency. So what makes him DECISIVELY better? Sure, he COULD be this coming season. Yet for the last couple of years people have been doing it. I mean Al Jefferson right now is a comparable players. 16/11/1.5/1.3 in 3 less minutes a game. What makes Howard clearly better than all these guys? You know, other than the fact that people get caught up in the hype of him being a super athletic #1 pick...

Are you kidding me? Look at he's stats! In my opinion he's the best center in the league.. The athletism makes him better than Yao and the size as good as Amare. I cannot pick better one from Howard/Stoudemire because they both are so good and able if only healthy to carry their teams. These two will be the ultimate in-the-paint-fighting-duo of the 21st century.. Magic-Suns game is what I'm waiting for :bowdown:

[poeticism707]

I completely agree. He is overrated. When you really look at him, he's a dunking rebounder. An upgraded Stromile Swift if you will. He averages about 10 shots per game. He doesn't get many set offensive plays for him because he doesn't have much skill. Most of his points come off of garbage buckets and offensive rebounds and dunks. He even led the league in dunks in 2006. That proves that's pretty much his entire game - dunking. Not to mention the fact that he's a bad passer, turnover prone, and a bad free throw shooter. I just can't understand how people rank him so highly. What is it, the hype? There's no way he's better than Yao, Shaq, Amare, Gasol, O'Neal. People put him in the top 3 centers? I find that absurd. He's too raw and has very little talent, just athleticism. In fact, a few days ago I was thinking of making a topic about this. Barkley even said it himself:

"If Dwight Howard can't get a clear look for a dunk or layup, he won't score."

His only skill is dunking? I can't tell if you are criticizing Shaq (Mr.Elbow you in the face and get an and one) or Dwight Howard.

[Take Your Lumps]

LOL

Good to see Dwight putting fear in the hearts of opposing fans.

The hate is strong in this thread. :mad:

[Uchiha_Hai]

Howard averaging 22 and 15.

Magic are 10-2.

What's next?

[Nym]

His free throw shooting is better, he has more offensive moves (though he still just dunks a lot) and all of his stats has improved- including turnovers. And this is just one summer on working with Patrick Ewing. He's being called "The Beast of the East". At only 21 yrs of age and with a mentor like Patrick Ewing, Shaq is going to have to pass his torch over to Howard in a couple of years.

He's going to be unstoppable- his athleticism is just sick. In New Orleans, he was the last player behind the basket board and sprinted coast to coast and was the first person to reach the other side. That's unheard of for a big guy.

[Optimus Prime]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwight_howard/index.html

G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG
12 12 37.8 0.575 0.000 0.626 3.4 10.8 14.3 1.7

SPG BPG TO PF PPG
0.6 2.4 3.17 3.30 22.2

I apologize if the formatting sucks...I tried to make it a bit more readable.

How is a guy who is shooting 58%, averaging 22.2 PPG, 14.3 RPG and 2.4 BPG overrated? Who cares how he scores? Dunks are high percentage shots. The dude is a beast. I don't exactly see Shaq shooting many mid-range jumpers. In fact, a lot of Shaq's points were dunks too. Shooting 63% from the line is not horrible for a big. Doesn't Tim Duncan shoot like 65% or something like that?

Seriously, this Dwight Howard mindless bashing has to stop. His game speaks volumes for him. He is a monster. Yes, he is a bit raw and certainly has holes in his game, but he's young and already beasting.

I'd take him over current day Shaq, Yao or pretty much any CENTER in the league right now. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Without hesitation.

[IamRAMBO24]

Shaq won a lot of rings by dunking a lot. What's wrong with dunking?

[IamRAMBO24]

I'd take him over current day Shaq, Yao or pretty much any CENTER in the league right now. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Without hesitation.

While I agree with most of what you said, I won't take him over Yao. Yao only started peaking last year and he's going to only get better.

[ForceOfNature]

I really don't see where people come from when they automatically rank Howard up there with the absolute best big men in the game. You know, a top 5 center with the likes of Amare, Yao. For example, what makes him better than Marcus Camby? Jermaine O'Neal? Chris Bosh? Pau Gasol? These guys are ALL better shot-blockers(In JO and Camby's cases, better defensive players period than Howard), comparable or better scorers. The only edges Howard has over JO and Gasol are rebounding, and scoring efficiency. So what makes him DECISIVELY better? Sure, he COULD be this coming season. Yet for the last couple of years people have been doing it. I mean Al Jefferson right now is a comparable players. 16/11/1.5/1.3 in 3 less minutes a game. What makes Howard clearly better than all these guys? You know, other than the fact that people get caught up in the hype of him being a super athletic #1 pick...

How do you feel now? Howard is ripping apart this league.

[HeyIt'sMe]

I don't know, I see Okafor surpassing Howard in their prime.

Based on what? He's hardly improved since he's hit the league and can't stay healthy at all. He's a terrific defensive player, but he simply doesn't command the attention that a Dwight Howard does.

[IamRAMBO24]

Based on what? He's hardly improved since he's hit the league and can't stay healthy at all. He's a terrific defensive player, but he simply doesn't command the attention that a Dwight Howard does.

He has more versatility along the lines of Hakeem.

[yeaaaman]

Based on what? He's hardly improved since he's hit the league and can't stay healthy at all. He's a terrific defensive player, but he simply doesn't command the attention that a Dwight Howard does.

i agree with you, howard is a force down low you've got to watch him live to see how much better he really is

and about him only being a dunker, whats wrong with dunking? people want high percentage shots, and a dunk is the highest percentage shot you can get

[ChrisConley]

It's funny that this thread started by everyone hating on Dwight with no one defending him, and ended up everyone sweating his balls (b/c of his obvious domination). At the time this was originally started however (before his incredible performance this season), the argument was that he was overrated, which was absolutely ridiculous. Before the season started, SI, ESPN, Yahoo Sports and others had Camby, Duncan, Yao, Amare, Bosh, and Gasol as better fanatasy value picks than Dwight (i.e. better players). So how could anyone possibly say Dwight was overrated?

[HeyIt'sMe]

He has more versatility along the lines of Hakeem.

Since when it Okafor anywhere close to similar to Hakeem?

[Shogon Vendetta]

It's funny that this thread started by everyone hating on Dwight with no one defending him, and ended up everyone sweating his balls (b/c of his obvious domination). At the time this was originally started however (before his incredible performance this season), the argument was that he was overrated, which was absolutely ridiculous. Before the season started, SI, ESPN, Yahoo Sports and others had Camby, Duncan, Yao, Amare, Bosh, and Gasol as better fanatasy value picks than Dwight (i.e. better players). So how could anyone possibly say Dwight was overrated?

What? I defended him.

Check out my sarcastic remark about him being the only player besides Wilt to shoot 70% on fg's for an entire month.

I just didn't feel like arguing with eliteballer again. He's an idiot.

[ChrisConley]

What? I defended him.

Check out my sarcastic remark about him being the only player besides Wilt to shoot 70% on fg's for an entire month.

I just didn't feel like arguing with eliteballer again. He's an idiot.

My fault Shogun. I missed that. Great stat by the way. I just peeked at NBA.com to see what's up (don't really love the site) and their columnist Maurice Brooks wrote about how Dwight is the leading candidate for MVP :)

[dnyk1337]

Dwight Howard is a beast. Face it. The guy can play. Who cares if he isn't Kevin McHale on the offense. I bet you McHale woulda been dunked on like 20 times in the game if they played against each other...

[IamRAMBO24]

Since when it Okafor anywhere close to similar to Hakeem?

I never said he was Hakeem, I said he has the potential to be the next Hakeem.

[Make It Rain]

You are confusing Dwight Howard with Kobe Bryant. Step back and put down the crackpipe.
Quoted for truth.

[EricForman]

I completely agree. He is overrated. When you really look at him, he's a dunking rebounder. An upgraded Stromile Swift if you will. He averages about 10 shots per game. He doesn't get many set offensive plays for him because he doesn't have much skill. Most of his points come off of garbage buckets and offensive rebounds and dunks. He even led the league in dunks in 2006. That proves that's pretty much his entire game - dunking. Not to mention the fact that he's a bad passer, turnover prone, and a bad free throw shooter. I just can't understand how people rank him so highly. What is it, the hype? There's no way he's better than Yao, Shaq, Amare, Gasol, O'Neal. People put him in the top 3 centers? I find that absurd. He's too raw and has very little talent, just athleticism. In fact, a few days ago I was thinking of making a topic about this. Barkley even said it himself:

"If Dwight Howard can't get a clear look for a dunk or layup, he won't score."


yeah, he's just an upgraded stromile but yet evvery GM would automatically draft him #2 if they have the entire NBA roster to draft from to start a franchise (it was voted on nba.com)

:confusedshrug:

I been sayng this for years, going back to two years ago when clown Bosh fans tried to say Bosh was better, Dwight Howard is the second sickest physical speciment in the league, behind Lebron. You factor in his age, power, athletism, it's a no brainer. He's averaging what, 24 and 13 right now with 2 blocks?

Those numbers will get better. No one would be surprised if he drops a 30/30 game or average 25 15 3 for ten straight years.

Only drunk people will still pick Gasol or JO over Dwight.


PS: i didnt notice the thread was started in sept and some guy bumped it.

[Moan]

cough

[Derek Zoolander]

I don't even know why teams double team him, just stay on the shooters and either foul Dwight hard if he's about to dunk or let him go into his low percentage clanking spin move baby hook.

[Moan]

I don't even know why teams double team him, just stay on the shooters and either foul Dwight hard if he's about to dunk or let him go into his low percentage clanking spin move baby hook.

Did you even read the post?

[Niquesports]

I completely agree. He is overrated. When you really look at him, he's a dunking rebounder. An upgraded Stromile Swift if you will. He averages about 10 shots per game. He doesn't get many set offensive plays for him because he doesn't have much skill. Most of his points come off of garbage buckets and offensive rebounds and dunks. He even led the league in dunks in 2006. That proves that's pretty much his entire game - dunking. Not to mention the fact that he's a bad passer, turnover prone, and a bad free throw shooter. I just can't understand how people rank him so highly. What is it, the hype? There's no way he's better than Yao, Shaq, Amare, Gasol, O'Neal. People put him in the top 3 centers? I find that absurd. He's too raw and has very little talent, just athleticism. In fact, a few days ago I was thinking of making a topic about this. Barkley even said it himself:

"If Dwight Howard can't get a clear look for a dunk or layup, he won't score."


last I checked A dunk was worth 2pt.

[Derek Zoolander]

Last I checked, Dwight can't create his own shot

[NBASTATMAN]

I agree he is very overrated. Yes he has potential so people should wait until he lives up to it not just give him ratings now.

Big men better:

Duncan
Garnett
Boozer
Amare
Dirk
Brand
Gasol
JO
Shaq
Bosh

People like Al Jefferson, Brad Miller have more talent and skill than him.


Wow I thought I had seen it alll... Dhoward is a top 5 player in the NBA on everyone's list......

[Dave3]

Wow I thought I had seen it alll... Dhoward is a top 5 player in the NBA on everyone's list......
That post was in 2007. Before his breakout year in 2007-2008.

[ANBU21]

Last I checked, Dwight can't create his own shot

That last time must have been a long time ago...

[GatorKid117]

Sigh... read the date. This thread was made 2-3 years ago. No sense in debating.

Edit: what Dave said.

[Jasper]

Sometimes these old threads are great to go back on , see and reflect the wisdom of ISH as well as references to players in the league a few years back.

I think this year Howard has finally established a low post game (took awhile) and one of the telling factors why he is so revered (spl.) in the league is that he covers the lane so well on 'D'. Other than Shaq he is probably the best in the league at intimidation.

Going through these playoff's I will be watching just really who is the leader of this team :confusedshrug:

Probably we will really see when crunch time occurs , and they play the Cav's.

-------------
Speaking of the Cav's - I wonder if the Cav's are playing like last year's playoffs , relying more on Bron ? (their stacked and Bron needs to use them)
Watch 1/2 court sets and see if Bron is / is not the focal point.

[no pun intended]

Sometimes these old threads are great to go back on , see and reflect the wisdom of ISH as well as references to players in the league a few years back.

I think this year Howard has finally established a low post game (took awhile) and one of the telling factors why he is so revered (spl.) in the league is that he covers the lane so well on 'D'. Other than Shaq he is probably the best in the league at intimidation.

Going through these playoff's I will be watching just really who is the leader of this team :confusedshrug:

Probably we will really see when crunch time occurs , and they play the Cav's.

-------------
Speaking of the Cav's - I wonder if the Cav's are playing like last year's playoffs , relying more on Bron ? (their stacked and Bron needs to use them)
Watch 1/2 court sets and see if Bron is / is not the focal point.
yup, seven years later and things haven't changed one bit about dwight

[RighteousMax]

dwight has to grow up and stop laughing all the damn time, take the game serious like a real dominant center.

[SexSymbol]

Visionary thread.