Better Scorer: Kobe or Melo? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

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The Italian

10-01-2007, 11:47 PM

I don't recall seeing a thread like this (at least not for a while) so I decided to make it. Sorry if this is old and recycled.

Anyways, who do you think is the better scorer, Kobe or Melo?

aahhsin

10-01-2007, 11:48 PM

81 is 81.

ihatetimthomas

10-01-2007, 11:52 PM

theres no thread bc clearly kobe at this stage is the superior offensive talent. I like melo, he is a very good scorer, but kobe is damn near unstoppabale at times and makes insane shots in the paint and beyond the arc

L.Kizzle

10-01-2007, 11:57 PM

The black guy who's known in Colorado.

josh_3089406

10-01-2007, 11:59 PM

RidonKs

10-02-2007, 12:01 AM

Melo's closer than a hell of a lot of people think, but Kobe takes it.

1v1 though? Anyone?

dawsey6

10-02-2007, 12:05 AM

ForceOfNature

10-02-2007, 12:06 AM

Kobe is the correct answer.

Prodigy

10-02-2007, 12:12 AM

Kobe has been pretty much unstoppable these past couple years especially in the playoffs. If he misses it isn't because of your defense, but because he missed. I've seen him light up the Suns the way Jordan did it back in 93.

johndeeregreen

10-02-2007, 12:16 AM

Bryant, and it isn't by an inch, either.

hotsizzle

10-02-2007, 12:23 AM

I'd be embarrassed to ask that question! And it's not even like Melo is the second best scorer in the league. I'd have LeBron, McGrady, Wade, and Arenas ahead of Melo. Heck, I'd even go to Shaq for an easy quick 2 before I go to Melo! To be honest I don't even know why he's on the US team! They need to select players that can play well at international level, not just elite NBA players. Guys like Prince, Bowen, Chandlar, Marion, Josh Smith, Oden, can be added around guys like Kobe etc. The more recent out of college they are, the better they will be at international level! Melo is good but not a Superstar!

Oh please. Lebron, Wade, Tmac arent better scorers than Melo. Even Arenas isnt.

Melo is all about consistency people. He never takes a rediculous amount of shots...scores at a high rate and does it very efficiently. His offensive repertoire is better than any of those guys you mentioned.

Kobe is 1. Melo is 2. Arenas is a close third.

Kobe24

10-02-2007, 12:31 AM

I was looking for hidden white text to see if this thread was a joke

playtetris

10-02-2007, 12:31 AM

I'd be embarrassed to ask that question! And it's not even like Melo is the second best scorer in the league. I'd have LeBron, McGrady, Wade, and Arenas ahead of Melo. Heck, I'd even go to Shaq for an easy quick 2 before I go to Melo! To be honest I don't even know why he's on the US team! They need to select players that can play well at international level, not just elite NBA players. Guys like Prince, Bowen, Chandlar, Marion, Josh Smith, Oden, can be added around guys like Kobe etc. The more recent out of college they are, the better they will be at international level! Melo is good but not a Superstar!

i'm well aware you're probably a troll, but... :roll:

melo is one of the top FIBA basketball players in the world. to metion prince, bowen, marion in the same sentence as him is a complete insult.

bleedinpurpleTwo

10-02-2007, 12:36 AM

Oh please. Lebron, Wade, Tmac arent better scorers than Melo. Even Arenas isnt.

Melo is all about consistency people. He never takes a rediculous amount of shots...scores at a high rate and does it very efficiently. His offensive repertoire is better than any of those guys you mentioned.

Kobe is 1. Melo is 2. Arenas is a close third.

nope. Wade is better than Melo.
Melo averaged only 1.5 pts more BUT
Wade shot over 49% (Melo 47%)
AND
did so while dishing out twice as many assists. THAT'S impressive ****ttt.

brandonislegend

10-02-2007, 12:40 AM

nope. Wade is better than Melo.
Melo averaged only 1.5 pts more BUT
Wade shot over 49% (Melo 47%)
AND
did so while dishing out twice as many assists. THAT'S impressive ****ttt.

one of the dumbest things ive ever seen.

wade has shaq...of course he has more open shots....melo was by himself until AI came...stats are overrated..melo is a better scorer watch a basketball game.

hateraid

10-02-2007, 01:08 AM

josh_3089406

10-02-2007, 01:13 AM

Oh please. Lebron, Wade, Tmac arent better scorers than Melo. Even Arenas isnt.

Melo is all about consistency people. He never takes a rediculous amount of shots...scores at a high rate and does it very efficiently. His offensive repertoire is better than any of those guys you mentioned.

Kobe is 1. Melo is 2. Arenas is a close third.

You forgot his high turnover count. I'd rather take more shots and miss than just make stupid plays cos you can't look after the ball.

YAWN

10-02-2007, 01:14 AM

kobe...

josh_3089406

10-02-2007, 01:15 AM

Would you really? Shaq can't hit those bank shots like he used to.

anyway, Kobe, by a margin.

Yeah true, but he can still dunk haha.

Y2Gezee

10-02-2007, 01:19 AM

I'd take Melo as the more prolific scorer and Bryant as the more dynamic one. Kobe has the edge in which he's got more weapons to score Melo could be on any given team and be their scoring leader, including L.A.

Correct post.

Melo is an explosive scorer and all, but like Sizzle said he's about consistency. Has taken 30 shots no more than 5 times, if that many in his 4yr career as a number 1 option and basically a 1st and 2nd option prior to AI. Kobe is a guy known to take a lot of shots... sometimes he's off, but when he's on he's as good as we've ever seen and hes not shy when it comes to testing if he's on or not.

I bet if you dared Melo to score 50, within a week or close he could do it. He's got nearly a flawless offensive game, he can do it all.

josh_3089406

10-02-2007, 01:20 AM

i'm well aware you're probably a troll, but... :roll:

melo is one of the top FIBA basketball players in the world. to metion prince, bowen, marion in the same sentence as him is a complete insult.

I will agree with you that Melo is better than those players. But they already have Kobe Kidd James and Stoudemire. They need to surround them with good defenders and smart mature ballers that do all the small things rather than more Superstars. Too many egos on one team is dangerous!

crisoner

10-02-2007, 02:21 AM

Since everyone is voting Kobe I'm gunna take Melo.

Some of these kids arr doing their own thing....some of these kids are doing the same.

brwnman

10-02-2007, 02:23 AM

Kobe is the best scorer in the NBA, so I pick him...

hotsizzle

10-02-2007, 03:28 AM

You forgot his high turnover count. I'd rather take more shots and miss than just make stupid plays cos you can't look after the ball.

wtf..why bring TOs into this? Just admit it, you're one of the many Melo haaters and you're reaching.

Melo, before Iverson arrived, was dominating the league in scoring and you know how? By stringing 15+ consecutive 30 pt games (something only done by Kobe/Shaq from all active players) and was shooting above 50%.

You don't ever see Melo attempt an insane amount of shots but you'll always find him in the 28-35 range. An amazing midrange/post game that includes a deadly jumpshot, great footwork, an unstoppable jab step, and a crisp crossover that gets him into the paint every time. His offense is a thing of beauty. Unlike Lebron or Wade, his offense relies more on fundamentals than it does on athleticism.

josh_3089406

10-02-2007, 04:45 AM

wtf..why bring TOs into this? Just admit it, you're one of the many Melo haaters and you're reaching.

Melo, before Iverson arrived, was dominating the league in scoring and you know how? By stringing 15+ consecutive 30 pt games (something only done by Kobe/Shaq from all active players) and was shooting above 50%.

You don't ever see Melo attempt an insane amount of shots but you'll always find him in the 28-35 range. An amazing midrange/post game that includes a deadly jumpshot, great footwork, an unstoppable jab step, and a crisp crossover that gets him into the paint every time. His offense is a thing of beauty. Unlike Lebron or Wade, his offense relies more on fundamentals than it does on athleticism.

Hey, I never said he's a bad scorer. He's terrific. But there's no way you can put him in the same catagory as Kobe. And there is always argument that Melo isn't second best. And I'm not a Melo haater, I just feel it's good to be hard on guys like him because he has scoring under his wing, outside/inside, the whole works. Now he has to mature and become a team man. He isn't a leader yet. So I'm just waiting for when he becomes the best player in the league. Well, behind Kobe that is.
But like you said, it is the fundamentals he relies on. The only thing the seperates him from Kobe is that Kobe has all the fundamentals and is athletic. Melo relies on open shots and his ability to dominate other 3's in the post. Kobe creates his own shots, can squeeze thru anything in the lane, and use his Jordan like skills in the post to make good defenders look terrible!

hotsizzle

10-02-2007, 05:25 AM

Hey, I never said he's a bad scorer. He's terrific. But there's no way you can put him in the same catagory as Kobe. And there is always argument that Melo isn't second best. And I'm not a Melo haater, I just feel it's good to be hard on guys like him because he has scoring under his wing, outside/inside, the whole works. Now he has to mature and become a team man. He isn't a leader yet. So I'm just waiting for when he becomes the best player in the league. Well, behind Kobe that is.
But like you said, it is the fundamentals he relies on. The only thing the seperates him from Kobe is that Kobe has all the fundamentals and is athletic. Melo relies on open shots and his ability to dominate other 3's in the post. Kobe creates his own shots, can squeeze thru anything in the lane, and use his Jordan like skills in the post to make good defenders look terrible!

I never even suggested that hes on Kobe's level. In fact, above I said Kobe is #1. I'm replying to you suggesting that TMac, Lebron, Wade being better.

lovethetriangle

10-02-2007, 05:47 AM

Melo is being crudely underrated in this thread.

He's not far from Kobe's scoring prowess. Easily 2nd best in the league.

playtetris

10-02-2007, 06:34 AM

I will agree with you that Melo is better than those players. But they already have Kobe Kidd James and Stoudemire. They need to surround them with good defenders and smart mature ballers that do all the small things rather than more Superstars. Too many egos on one team is dangerous!

i don't get why you're mentioning these names before melo, though. kidd and stoudemire are obviously a completely different kettle of fish... but james and kobe? to me, anthony is on the same (if not higher) level as these guys in FIBA.

if anything, bron should be dropped first. he had a great americas tournament, but we're yet to see whether he can continue of with that sort of play consistently, especially against the better teams.

josh_3089406

10-02-2007, 06:34 AM

I never even suggested that hes on Kobe's level. In fact, above I said Kobe is #1. I'm replying to you suggesting that TMac, Lebron, Wade being better.

Well there's no argument about Kobe and Melo. But there can always be argument between Melo and LeBron and maybe T-Mac. Wade is out cos he can't shoot the 3. And then there's Arenas who comes in as a totally diffrent type of scorer!

josh_3089406

10-02-2007, 06:37 AM

i don't get why you're mentioning these names before melo, though. kidd and stoudemire are obviously a completely different kettle of fish... but james and kobe? to me, anthony is on the same (if not higher) level as these guys in FIBA.

if anything, bron should be dropped first. he had a great americas tournament, but we're yet to see whether he can continue of with that sort of play consistently, especially against the better teams.

Yeah, well ideally it'd be good to keep all but to make space so there isn't so much ego and who gets more shots etc, my choice would be to drop Anthony as he is probably the least complete player out of Kobe/LeBron/Melo.

Clank

10-02-2007, 09:18 AM

*chanting "KOBE! KOBE! KOBE!"

New Jazzy Nets

10-02-2007, 09:20 AM

The black guy who's known in Colorado.

That was ****ing hilarious:roll:

Joey3000

10-02-2007, 09:32 AM

Kobe is a more popular player so most will say Kobe, but the moment Melo has a big playoffs series, lets say he made it to the western conferance finals or even the finals, alot of minds would change.

Only thing Kobe has over melo right now is driving ability... slightly. Melos post game, mid-long range shot, offball movement is all on par, if not better.

He doesnt take as many shots as most superstar swingman, yet he scores more.

Samurai Swoosh

10-02-2007, 11:50 AM

Don't get it twisted, Melo is a fabulous scorer ... and getting better. But don't judge what he did in FIBA as a means to justify what he does in the League. He gets more spot up looks in FIBA, closer 3 point line, and the defenders aren't as smart or as physically gifted as they are in the League. Melo hasn't even dropped 50 or more, yet. So till then, I can't even take him seriously in comparing them as scorers.

Bryant in the League, w/ a further three-point line has way more range to his J. Kobe also is much better @ scoring w/ three / four guys ... or whole teams in his face while scoring. Kobe has less options to deter defenses from doubling and tripling him, and even then Bryant still makes plays. Bryant as a guard has the best back to the basket game in the league, and he's a better slasher scorer than Melo as well. Bryant also creates easy points 4 himself off steals and defense.

Melo is a great scorer, and I think his strengths and skill would make him a better fit as a scorer than most players in 2days League in a more physical defensive league like the early 90's , NBA on NBC, Ahmad Rashad, NY Knick beatdown NBA of the past decade.

But c'mon as of right now, history context included, plus the longevity of Kobe Bryant being the most dominating offensive weapon in the game ... the question shouldn't even be asked. Think b4 you talk. Way too premature to even ask. Insults my intelligence as a basketball fan.

NugzFan

10-02-2007, 12:40 PM

Knoe Itawl

10-02-2007, 12:44 PM

VCMVP1551

10-02-2007, 12:46 PM

Carmelo is a bit overrated as a scorer. Vince Carter averaged more points per shot last season :rockon:

Da KO King

10-02-2007, 12:50 PM

I'll just paste what I typed in my "Get to know my views..." thread

Carmelo Anthony is the best perimeter scorer in the NBA

That’s right he’s a better scorer than Mr 81.

He’s the most fundamentally sound perimeter guy out there. No player has his understanding of off ball movement, the triple threat game, and footwork.

The only weakness in Carmelo’s offensive game is consistency from deep.

Even that isn’t a huge issue cause Carmelo exhibits excellent shot selection. He recognizes that the three can be fool’s gold and doesn’t focus on putting up deep shots.

The player Carmelo most reminds me of is Larry Bird. In terms of total understanding of perimeter play ‘Melo is the closest we’ve ever come to getting another Larry Legend. If ‘Melo ever becomes as willing a passer as Larry he would end up becoming one of the all time greats.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=929893&postcount=106

Samurai Swoosh

10-02-2007, 01:12 PM

Fatal_Flaw

10-02-2007, 01:14 PM

Carmelo is a bit overrated as a scorer. Vince Carter averaged more points per shot last season :rockon:

So you're saying that Vince Carter is a better scorer than Melo?

Knoe Itawl

10-02-2007, 01:20 PM

Kobe Bryant hasn't played up to standards in the Playoffs. He just hasn't the past few years. Whether its pouting, putting together great first halves and not finishing ... he hasn't been as great as he should be come Playoff time. This is one of the major gripes I've had w/ him the past few years. He hasn't been bad, he's been very good to great "at times" ... but he hasn't put it all together in the Playoffs as "the man" .... yet. But that's okay too, the only person who has been "the man" since 2001 w/ A.I., was D. Wade in 2006. Which is exactly why I expect a hell of a lot more out of Bean Bryant in the Playoffs. He's obviously the best player in the game, right there w/ TD ... and being that its the Playoffs, you got to raise your game. I expect a lot more out of him, the way MJ used to raise his game on call to ridiculous levels under the Playoff intensity and stage. Still waiting for Bryant to break out like that.

You guys just think saying it over and over again makes it so, huh? I'd expect the best player in the game to elevate his level above the other players in the league to the point where there is no question. TD has done that, Shaq did it. Kobe has yet to do it. He has some high scoring games. Great! But he has not outperformed the rest of the league in the most pressure filled, and most competitive season the NBA has................the playoffs. And really, how was he performing so much better than Bron or Wade (before he went down last year)? At least you admit his past few playoff runs have been mired in inconsistancy and at times downright bad play. But instead of being able to take the next logical step, which is Bryant is not inarguably the best player in the game, you make it "yeah, he hasn't done spectacular in the playoffs, but he's still the best just because, just becaue he's Kobe and to people like me he's the best no matter how he plays"

Blah.

VCMVP1551

10-02-2007, 01:29 PM

So you're saying that Vince Carter is a better scorer than Melo?

No I'll call it a lie.

Valiant Valor

10-02-2007, 01:32 PM

:lol:, at anyone who says Melo is a better scorer than even LeBron, let alone Kobe.

He averages two more shots, with 4 less assists per game. He's a worse three point shooter by far. And his both players TS% is the same.

Carmelo = Overrated

Samurai Swoosh

10-02-2007, 01:39 PM

People confuse being a better scorer w/ being a better player. Arenas is a better scorer than Wade, but he isn't the better player. Get me, kids?

In this case Bryant is just both a better player and a better scorer. The only I talk about w/ Bryant and scoring prowress is Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, Allen Iverson, and a few others ... but they're all PROVEN dynamic and consistent scorers.

Fatal_Flaw

10-02-2007, 01:39 PM

:lol:, at anyone who says Melo is a better scorer than even LeBron, let alone Kobe.

When it comes to scoring Melo and Kobe are very close, with Kobe having the slight edge. But Melo is definitely a better scorer than Lebron.

Los Angeles

10-02-2007, 01:43 PM

Since when has Melo ever been the superior scorer, I mean damn that FIBA tournament sure went into your heads a little to deep guys.

Valiant Valor

10-02-2007, 01:45 PM

When it comes to scoring Melo and Kobe are very close, with Kobe having the slight edge. But Melo is definitely a better scorer than Lebron.
Based on what premise?

I just told you Carmelo shoots significantly worse from the three and takes two more shots a game just to average 1.5 points more a game, while averaging 4 less assists a game.

What's so definite about that?

He's a better free throw shooter, but I don't think that by itself is enough to make hime a better scorer.

CAYO

10-02-2007, 01:53 PM

http://www.thesportstruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/p1kobe.jpg

Fatal_Flaw

10-02-2007, 01:59 PM

Based on what premise?

I just told you Carmelo shoots significantly worse from the three and takes two more shots a game just to average 1.5 points more a game, while averaging 4 less assists a game.

What's so definite about that?

He's a better free throw shooter, but I don't think that by itself is enough to make hime a better scorer.

Carmelo is more offensively versatile than Lebron. He can score in many different ways. Plus, Carmelo is much more fundamentally sound than Lebron on offense. Like King said, Melo has great off the ball movement, a great mid-range, and a great post game. I can't say the same thing about Lebron. This is what stats don't tell you.

Did you watch the Finals? There were instances were Lebron would be on the block posting up Bruce Bowen and he looked as if he didn't know what to do. Plus, the Spurs were giving Lebron that mid-range shot all series and he couldn't hit it.

The post and mid-range game is Carmelo's bread and butter. When you consider all of this plus his consistency and that he was getting 30+ a game on 49% before AI came and before Kobe's rampage, yeah, he's a better scorer than Lebron.

NugzFan

10-02-2007, 02:31 PM

Carmelo is a bit overrated as a scorer. Vince Carter averaged more points per shot last season :rockon:

thats wonderful...but doesnt make him a better scorer than melo.

VCMVP1551

10-02-2007, 02:35 PM

thats wonderful...but doesnt make him a better scorer than melo.

He is every bit as good of a scorer. He can score in more ways. Vince is a big threat from 3 point range and he can make more acrobatic shots than Carmelo.

NugzFan

10-02-2007, 03:50 PM

He is every bit as good of a scorer. He can score in more ways. Vince is a big threat from 3 point range and he can make more acrobatic shots than Carmelo.

and he dunks real good too!

bdreason

10-02-2007, 04:27 PM

1. Kobe
2. Melo

and it's closer than people think. Kobe is a better all around player, but Melo is an amazing scorer, and could go down in history as one of the best scorers the league has ever seen.

bdreason

10-02-2007, 04:29 PM

Since when has Melo ever been the superior scorer, I mean damn that FIBA tournament sure went into your heads a little to deep guys.

He led the NBA is scoring at one point buddy. This was before his success in FIBA play.

bleedinpurpleTwo

10-02-2007, 04:46 PM

He led the NBA is scoring at one point buddy. This was before his success in FIBA play.

you might want to provide your thoughts on the other thread "how do you define scoring...).

steadyfast96

10-02-2007, 04:47 PM

Melo is an amazing scorer, and could go down in history as one of the best scorers the league has ever seen.

Well I don't know about the best scorer the league has ever seen but, I was watching the FIBA Americas tourney and thinking I've never seen any NBA player play that style with his body size, moves, etc. Except that he reminds me of a much more skinnier version of Barkley.

josh_3089406

10-03-2007, 02:41 AM

You guys just think saying it over and over again makes it so, huh? I'd expect the best player in the game to elevate his level above the other players in the league to the point where there is no question. TD has done that, Shaq did it. Kobe has yet to do it. He has some high scoring games. Great! But he has not outperformed the rest of the league in the most pressure filled, and most competitive season the NBA has................the playoffs. And really, how was he performing so much better than Bron or Wade (before he went down last year)? At least you admit his past few playoff runs have been mired in inconsistancy and at times downright bad play. But instead of being able to take the next logical step, which is Bryant is not inarguably the best player in the game, you make it "yeah, he hasn't done spectacular in the playoffs, but he's still the best just because, just becaue he's Kobe and to people like me he's the best no matter how he plays"

Blah.
Last time I checked the Lakers roster looks pretty terrible. Kobe did bloody well to get them to the playoffs. So you can't blame Kobe for not succeeding in the playoffs. If the Lakers traded Melo for Kobe, it wouldn't matter if Meloo averaged 40ppg, the Lakers would fall short of the playoffs!
Fisher
Anthony
Walton
Odom
Bynum

OUCH!!!!

Los Angeles

10-03-2007, 11:14 AM

He led the NBA is scoring at one point buddy. This was before his success in FIBA play.

What's your point?
I'm sure none of you considered Melo the better scorer based on last season's play, Kobe won the scoring title the last two years. He's over the 30 PPG since Shaquille's departure. Carmelo is an exceptional scorer no doubt about it, he's superior in the low post. But I think the people that actually believe Carmelo has the edge in scoring, were significantly influenced by his play in FIBA.

Gilbert Arenas led the league in scoring for a short span of time, is he better then Kobe too? I think you missed my point, I never said Carmelo wasn't a great scorer, he simply isn't on par with Kobe. I don't mind people claiming he's close to Kobe, because that would be a fact.

Da KO King

10-03-2007, 11:18 AM

Last time I checked the Lakers roster looks pretty terrible. Kobe did bloody well to get them to the playoffs. So you can't blame Kobe for not succeeding in the playoffs. If the Lakers traded Melo for Kobe, it wouldn't matter if Meloo averaged 40ppg, the Lakers would fall short of the playoffs!
Fisher
Anthony
Walton
Odom
Bynum

OUCH!!!!
Not so sure about that. Carmelo's superiority in the low post and playing off the ball would make the Triangle Offense far more effective and efficient than it currently is.

A.M.G.

10-03-2007, 11:23 AM

I'm gonna say Carmelo Anthony just to piss people off.

bleedinpurpleTwo

10-03-2007, 11:25 AM

the better question is...

WHO IS THE BETTER SCORER: MELO OR DWADE??

AI Nuggets3

10-03-2007, 05:05 PM

Melo - in his prime will easily put up 30ppg on 50% shooting. Hell he was averaging that for most of last season in only his 4th year. who's the last person to do THAT?

Kobe - the best scorer in the world.....EASILY.

Melo will earn that title in about 3 or 4 years. i cant see anyone in that 03 class being better offensively than Melo. the guy is pure oldschool.

elz

10-03-2007, 05:08 PM

moronic thread

crisoner

10-03-2007, 05:16 PM

You guys just think saying it over and over again makes it so, huh? I'd expect the best player in the game to elevate his level above the other players in the league to the point where there is no question. TD has done that, Shaq did it. Kobe has yet to do it. He has some high scoring games. Great! But he has not outperformed the rest of the league in the most pressure filled, and most competitive season the NBA has................the playoffs. And really, how was he performing so much better than Bron or Wade (before he went down last year)? At least you admit his past few playoff runs have been mired in inconsistancy and at times downright bad play. But instead of being able to take the next logical step, which is Bryant is not inarguably the best player in the game, you make it "yeah, he hasn't done spectacular in the playoffs, but he's still the best just because, just becaue he's Kobe and to people like me he's the best no matter how he plays"

Blah.

Knoebe the Kobe troll strikes yet again!!!

picc84

10-03-2007, 05:30 PM

You guys just think saying it over and over again makes it so, huh? I'd expect the best player in the game to elevate his level above the other players in the league to the point where there is no question. TD has done that, Shaq did it. Kobe has yet to do it. He has some high scoring games. Great! But he has not outperformed the rest of the league in the most pressure filled, and most competitive season the NBA has................the playoffs. And really, how was he performing so much better than Bron or Wade (before he went down last year)? At least you admit his past few playoff runs have been mired in inconsistancy and at times downright bad play. But instead of being able to take the next logical step, which is Bryant is not inarguably the best player in the game, you make it "yeah, he hasn't done spectacular in the playoffs, but he's still the best just because, just becaue he's Kobe and to people like me he's the best no matter how he plays"

Blah.

I'd love to see you say that to the droves of nba players who say that or things exactly like it every year. Not because it being their opinion makes it a fact, because it doesn't, but because you wouldn't have this argumentative fallacy of instinctively condemning statements primarily because of who the person's favorite team or player was to fall back on. Then maybe you would be forced into responding to actual arguments by making relevant counterpoints, instead of parroting exaggerated generalizations like "he's the best no matter what because he's kobe and I love him". Lets see how well that works on the multitudes of non-kobe fanatics who think he's the best player in the league. You wouldn't be able to copy and paste these generic responses, thats for sure.

josh_3089406

10-03-2007, 08:03 PM

Not so sure about that. Carmelo's superiority in the low post and playing off the ball would make the Triangle Offense far more effective and efficient than it currently is.

Oh for sure! I won't argue with that. Infact Melo could probably score just as much if not more in the triangle than Kobe. But people look at how far the Lakers go in the playoffs and judge Kobe from that. It's not his fault he doesn't have the required pieces to help him out. And when it comes to leading a team, Melo wouldn't carry the Lakers as far as Kobe has on his own!

go_blue

10-03-2007, 09:13 PM

kobe he got 81 in a game i dont think melo will ever even come close to 81

Y2Gezee

10-03-2007, 10:58 PM

Oh for sure! I won't argue with that. Infact Melo could probably score just as much if not more in the triangle than Kobe. But people look at how far the Lakers go in the playoffs and judge Kobe from that. It's not his fault he doesn't have the required pieces to help him out. And when it comes to leading a team, Melo wouldn't carry the Lakers as far as Kobe has on his own!

Where's Kobe carried them? To the playoffs.

One could argue that with similar talent as the lakers current roster, Melo carried the Nugz his rookie year. His 2nd and 3rd year with all the injuries on the roster were certainly as impressive as Kobe taking a team to the playoffs with them being at the top of the league in injuries both years.

Y2Gezee

10-03-2007, 11:01 PM

kobe he got 81 in a game i dont think melo will ever even come close to 81

He also probably will never take 40 shots and almost 30 fts, so you may be right.:)

poeticism707

10-03-2007, 11:02 PM

Kelo?

josh_3089406

10-04-2007, 12:24 AM

He also probably will never take 40 shots and almost 30 fts, so you may be right.:)

If one attempted 40 shots and 30 ft's I'd say one would have to be happy with a result of 81 points! Melo should try it and see how short he falls of Kobe's 81!!

bleedinpurpleTwo

10-04-2007, 12:29 AM

If one attempted 40 shots and 30 ft's I'd say one would have to be happy with a result of 81 points! Melo should try it and see how short he falls of Kobe's 81!!

what is Melo's career high? i predict Melo will never drop 60. much less 60 in 3 quarters.
of course, only a handful of players ever dropped 60, so it should not reflect negatively on Melo.

04mzwach

10-04-2007, 12:43 AM

nope. Wade is better than Melo.
Melo averaged only 1.5 pts more BUT
Wade shot over 49% (Melo 47%)
AND
did so while dishing out twice as many assists. THAT'S impressive ****ttt.
did wade even play in Fiba this year? NOOOOOO! Anyway, Melo is clearly the best Fiba player on the US team.

bleedinpurpleTwo

10-04-2007, 01:08 AM

did wade even play in Fiba this year? NOOOOOO! Anyway, Melo is clearly the best Fiba player on the US team.

I think you are missing a big piece of this thread. this has nothing to do with Fiba. perhaps you should go back to the beginning.

Samurai Swoosh

10-04-2007, 02:01 AM

You guys just think saying it over and over again makes it so, huh?
Wait, I'm confused ... you quoted me, and then say "you guys" ... who exactly is "you guys" and why is it addressed @ me? If you're talking about fans of Kobe Bryant, don't be ignorant and generalize. I'd appreciate that.

I'm my own man, bro.

My opinion on many a subject matter, Bryant included, differ in some form or fashion from any other poster or Kobe Bryant fan. That's not right to be so quick to judge or lump me in w/ a group of people based off on common fact that we may like Kobe Bryant. It just doesn't make sense.

I'd expect the best player in the game to elevate his level above the other players in the league to the point where there is no question.
First of all, I never said there was "no question" as to Kobe Bryant being one of, if not the best players in the league. I mean you bolded part of my statement, and neglected to highlight the part where I said "alongside TD" ... TD being Tim Duncan. Cute, but did you choose not to acknowledge that?

I expect Kobe Bryant to elevate his game to un-godly levels in the playoffs as well, but I do so because I know his ceiling for dominance is higher than about 98% of the league's players. And even though he hasn't always "elevated his level above the other players in the league to the point where there is no question" ... how does that NOT make him one of the best players in the league and/or the best? That's some flawed logic. Because still for all intensive purposes, Kobe Bryant was one of the best players in the playoffs. Top three, no doubt in my mind.

I mean, I'm sure you would argue and consider Tim Duncan the best player in the league, no? He didn't seperate himself with no question from the competition of the other phenomenal individual stars in the league and in the playoffs. Seems more than anything like you hold a double standard for Kobe Bryant.

If Kobe's to be proclaimed the best player in the game, he has to elevate his play to super un-godly levels in order to solidify that he is one of and/or the game's greatest current player. But at the same time you don't hold that standard for anyone else, because no one has come even close to doing anything like that ... and I'm pretty sure you don't consider Bryant the best player in the league, or even in the discussion, BASED off what I've quickly gathered from your comments. Which then in turn brings me back to this statement ...

You guys just think saying it over and over again makes it so, huh?
Do testimonials from his peers, coaches, journalists, legends of the game's past hold no water to you? As if Kobe fans are the only one saying these things? C'mon man, you know it's not like that. Any half way intelligent basketball fan, even with a severe disdain or biased against Kobe Bryant could easily acknowledge the man is one of the best players in the game, if not the best. If you didn't have him in that conversation then that person would come out looking utterly retarded for not even dropping his name in the convo for "best in the game."

But you're sitting here, making it sound as if Kobe fans are this huge group of un-realistic fans who keep proclaiming over and over again their favorite player is the best in the game w/o legitimate reasoning or validation. Validation as in the countless articles, players, coaches, legends and the like that have argued him in the conversation every day ... or just flat out said he's the best player in the league by far. COUGH Charles Barkely COUGH

Let me put it this way for you ... say Kobe fans were really fans of Mo Evans, right? And us Mo Evans kept proclaiming him the best in the game, then you'd have every right to make a statement like this ...

You guys just think saying it over and over again makes it so, huh?
But given all the information, credibility and arguments for Kobe Bryant as the best player int he game ... that makes this above statement kind of foolish, don't ya think?

But really, Kobe fans do repeat it over and over again. Mainly because it has more credibility and legitimacy then virtually any other player, apart from maybe Tim Duncan. So in that effect, explain to me ...

- Besides the fact that Kobe fans love bringing it up (who wouldn't being a fan of said player)

Please tell me why, other then this horrible excuse for a retort as to why Kobe Bryant isn't the best player in the game. I mean really, explain to me how any other player has gone "above and beyond" to prove his is so ultimately better then the rest of the players in the league. For discussion sake, I'd love to hear it.

TD has done that, Shaq did it. Kobe has yet to do it.
To the level of Shaquille O'Neal? He hasn't. Tim Duncan hasn't dominated like that either, so ... LOL.

Tim Duncan's been very good, but don't make it sound as if he absolutely dominated at an individual level ... putting up like ridiculous stats or having a mad number of clutch plays or games or something. He's played very well. He's seperated from the pack cause he has 4 rings, having been the best player on a very good team that kept their nucleus together ... had proper pieces placed around their best player, and as continuity moved along, said TEAM got better. That's why the SPURS are champions.

Did Tim Duncan seperate himself from Carlos Boozer, Antawn Jamison, Amare Stoudemire, Yao Ming, Baron Davis, LeBron James, Tracy McGrady, or Allen Iverson of last year's playoffs @ an individual level? Because those players actually all had more dominating and thrilling playoff performances at the individual level.

I mean, c'mon ... Duncan's a great player, don't blow it out of proportion to help accentuate your argument.

Samurai Swoosh

10-04-2007, 02:05 AM

You guys just think saying it over and over again makes it so, huh?

I'd expect the best player in the game to elevate his level above the other players in the league to the point where there is no question.

Kobe's stretch of bad playoff series ... starting from the 2004 NBA Finals, hasn't been ultimately great (especially when considering Kobe's capabilities) ... why aren't those numbers great? B/c we're comparing him w/ how he should dominate in the playoffs only the game's greatest of all-time did when they elevated their play in the game's greatest stage.

I hold him to a higher standard, as obviously you do as well if he hasn't blown you away in the playoffs (thus proving he's probably the game's greatest player if he's met with such HUGE expectations by both fans and non-fans alike)

... all while still putting up numbers that are easily in the category of being the absolute BEST in the game ... and MIND YOU, we both agree he has tremendously underperformed. Write that one down before you finish reading the numbers I put up here, w/ alittle but of context included.

His 2006 - 2007 Playoff statistics against the 2nd ranked team in the West ... thus being for all intensive purposes, the second best team IN THE LEAGUE ... facing them as the 7th seed with a supporting cast that doesn't even belong in the conversation w/ any other western conferences team of players starting from 1 - 12 were ... and ontop of that, a talent handicapped team was injury riddled to boot. We saw Kobe Bryant, against the team that @ full strength was possibly poised to beat the Spurs, the same team that utterly dominated the Eastern Conference Champions w/ EASE. Here's what he put up, numbers wise ...

2006 - 2007 Playoffs

33 ppg (46 FG%)
5 rpg
4 apg
1 spg

And quite frankly, I was really disappointed. I knew he could've been even better. But what's that you say? It wasn't better than any of the other games elite?

Also for retrospect purposes ... Kobe Bryant Playoff STATS

2005 - 2006 Playoffs

28 PPG (50 FG%)
6 rpg
5 apg
1 spg

2003 - 2004 Playoffs

25 PPG (41 FG%)
5 rpg
6 apg
2 spg

Wait, I remember 2003 - 2004 being looked @ largely as a disaster from a playoff stand point for Kobe Bryant. I am correct in that regard, right? When in reality, up UNTIL the NBA Finals of that year, the head coach of the team shot praise to Kobe Bryant as being the team's best player and driving force for keeping everything together and going strong. He said he was the team's best player in that year's playoffs.

But ... WOW ... those numbers Kobe put up look eerily similar to someone who got relentless hype for the same deal this past summer, and in a strikingly similar fashion ended his season by crashing and burning in the Finals. Kobe Bryant's critics never let it down, and rightfully so ... but I don't even hear a peep from critics, naysayers, or even un-biased analysts about a similar abysmal performance from another of the game's brightest stars. Oh, and I'll bring those numbers up later in this story ...

2002 - 2003 Playoffs

32 PPG (43 FG%)
5 rpg
5 apg
1 spg

2001 - 2002 Playoffs

27 PPG (43 FG%)
6 rpg
5 apg
1 spg

2000 - 2001 Playoffs

29 PPG (47 FG%)
7 rpg
6 apg
2 spg

1999 - 2000

21 PPG (44 FG%)
5 rpg
4 apg
2 spg

And taking all that into an overall context as to how Kobe Bryant's performed in NBA Playoff history ... I find it truly disappointing, given the play he's capable of being. And that says something. Cause compare those numbers to ANY of the game's "top dogs" from the past few years and they're just as good, if not better than ANY of them. And he still has room for improvment. Just think about that. He's put up damn good numbers, and Kobe, unlike other players (even players who aren't the best in the game) ... hasn't just got completely bonkers in the playoffs yet, like anybody who knows and watches Kobe feels he's capable of doing. Watch out if he does, cause it could get friggin ridiculous.

Let's see ... LeBron James was in the topic of conversation for best player in the league. What did he do you say?

25 PPG (42 FG%)
7 rpg
7 apg
1 spg

Yes, he got to the Finals. But does that in any way represent the hype he got going there? Honestly, his rep this past post-season was built off ONE GAME. And ultimately, he didn't deliver above and beyond like your Kobe expectations. Or hell, even for LeBron James expectations either.

How about the other guy I mentioned as the league's best player right along side Kobe Bryant? ...

22 PPG (52 FG%)
12 rpg
3 apg
3 bpg

As a BIG MAN, and even a player as who many consider (myself included) to be the game's other most talked about as being the BEST ... even THOSE #'s don't stand up to your lofty theories. So if Spurs fans repeat over and over again that Tim Duncan is the world's best player, would you meet them with such an ignorant statement as the one given to me, and other Kobe fans, or basketball fans that happen to think he's the game's best player? Especially after a post where for the most part we agreed and in no way did I seem biased or illogical in my basketball opinion ...

But instead of being able to take the next logical step, which is Bryant is not inarguably the best player in the game
First of all, I never said it was inarguable. Second of all, why do you continue to fail to mention that I named the combo of both Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan as the best player in the game. Tim Duncan the best big man down low on the block, and Kobe Bryant the best perimeter player in the league.

My opinion came through on the original statement, yes ... however it is an opinion shared by many ... and even more so, an opinion shared with the great minds of the game. So it's not like I'm lost in space with that opinion. Sure it's arguable, as anything subjective as "best player int he league" in a team sport can be. However my opinion is loaded with tons and tons of credibility. So it isn't as assinine as you are trying to make it sound. And your excuse for it not being true is due to disappointing "playoff performances" from one Kobe Bryant, that even then are better than about any other player in the league. And with this explanation from you, I'd really love to hear your opinion on someone like say Dirk Nowitzki. Especially because that truly was a piss poor performance from one of the game's elite, on the biggest stage, against an opponent they should've whiped the floor with ... But you know, his name's not Kobe Bryant ... so he can be argued, just because.

BLAH

:)

So ...

You guys just think saying it over and over again makes it so, huh?

Well, who do you rank above Kobe Bryant then if he isn't the best player in the game, or even arguably so? ... Oh yeah, you have to use your check list ...

I'd expect the best player in the game to elevate his level above the other players in the league to the point where there is no question.

Otherwise known as the KOBE BRYANT STANDARD.

04mzwach

10-04-2007, 02:08 AM

Wait, I'm confused ... you quoted me, and then say "you guys" ... who exactly is "you guys" and why is it addressed @ me? If you're talking about fans of Kobe Bryant, don't be ignorant and generalize. I'd appreciate that.

I'm my own man, bro.

My opinion on many a subject matter, Bryant included, differ in some form or fashion from any other poster or Kobe Bryant fan. That's not right to be so quick to judge or lump me in w/ a group of people based off on common fact that we may like Kobe Bryant. It just doesn't make sense.

First of all, I never said there was "no question" as to Kobe Bryant being one of, if not the best players in the league. I mean you bolded part of my statement, and neglected to highlight the part where I said "alongside TD" ... TD being Tim Duncan. Cute, but did you choose not to acknowledge that?

I expect Kobe Bryant to elevate his game to un-godly levels in the playoffs as well, but I do so because I know his ceiling for dominance is higher than about 98% of the league's players. And even though he hasn't always "elevated his level above the other players in the league to the point where there is no question" ... how does that NOT make him one of the best players in the league and/or the best? That's some flawed logic. Because still for all intensive purposes, Kobe Bryant was one of the best players in the playoffs. Top three, no doubt in my mind.

I mean, I'm sure you would argue and consider Tim Duncan the best player in the league, no? He didn't seperate himself with no question from the competition of the other phenomenal individual stars in the league and in the playoffs. Seems more than anything like you hold a double standard for Kobe Bryant.

If Kobe's to be proclaimed the best player in the game, he has to elevate his play to super un-godly levels in order to solidify that he is one of and/or the game's greatest current player. But at the same time you don't hold that standard for anyone else, because no one has come even close to doing anything like that ... and I'm pretty sure you don't consider Bryant the best player in the league, or even in the discussion, BASED off what I've quickly gathered from your comments. Which then in turn brings me back to this statement ...

Do testimonials from his peers, coaches, journalists, legends of the game's past hold no water to you? As if Kobe fans are the only one saying these things? C'mon man, you know it's not like that. Any half way intelligent basketball fan, even with a severe disdain or biased against Kobe Bryant could easily acknowledge the man is one of the best players in the game, if not the best. If you didn't have him in that conversation then that person would come out looking utterly retarded for not even dropping his name in the convo for "best in the game."

But you're sitting here, making it sound as if Kobe fans are this huge group of un-realistic fans who keep proclaiming over and over again their favorite player is the best in the game w/o legitimate reasoning or validation. Validation as in the countless articles, players, coaches, legends and the like that have argued him in the conversation every day ... or just flat out said he's the best player in the league by far. COUGH Charles Barkely COUGH

Let me put it this way for you ... say Kobe fans were really fans of Mo Evans, right? And us Mo Evans kept proclaiming him the best in the game, then you'd have every right to make a statement like this ...

But given all the information, credibility and arguments for Kobe Bryant as the best player int he game ... that makes this above statement kind of foolish, don't ya think?

But really, Kobe fans do repeat it over and over again. Mainly because it has more credibility and legitimacy then virtually any other player, apart from maybe Tim Duncan. So in that effect, explain to me ...

- Besides the fact that Kobe fans love bringing it up (who wouldn't being a fan of said player)

Please tell me why, other then this horrible excuse for a retort as to why Kobe Bryant isn't the best player in the game. I mean really, explain to me how any other player has gone "above and beyond" to prove his is so ultimately better then the rest of the players in the league. For discussion sake, I'd love to hear it.

To the level of Shaquille O'Neal? He hasn't. Tim Duncan hasn't dominated like that either, so ... LOL.

Tim Duncan's been very good, but don't make it sound as if he absolutely dominated at an individual level ... putting up like ridiculous stats or having a mad number of clutch plays or games or something. He's played very well. He's seperated from the pack cause he has 4 rings, having been the best player on a very good team that kept their nucleus together ... had proper pieces placed around their best player, and as continuity moved along, said TEAM got better. That's why the SPURS are champions.

Did Tim Duncan seperate himself from Carlos Boozer, Antawn Jamison, Amare Stoudemire, Yao Ming, Baron Davis, LeBron James, Tracy McGrady, or Allen Iverson of last year's playoffs @ an individual level? Because those players actually all had more dominating and thrilling playoff performances at the individual level.

I mean, c'mon ... Duncan's a great player, don't blow it out of proportion to help accentuate your argument.
i'll put it pretty short for you why people would say he is not the best in the game. no ring without shaq. that's pretty much it. i'm not saying whether he is or not. but that's why people wouldn't say he's the best. that and maybe some other reasons like certain players they think might be better. that's all.

NugzFan

10-04-2007, 02:16 AM

the better question is...

WHO IS THE BETTER SCORER: MELO OR DWADE??

melo.

Samurai Swoosh

10-04-2007, 02:18 AM

Melo's a better scorer than Wade, but I'd rather have Wade b/c he's the better overall basketball player.

bdreason

10-04-2007, 02:34 AM

What's your point?
I'm sure none of you considered Melo the better scorer based on last season's play, Kobe won the scoring title the last two years. He's over the 30 PPG since Shaquille's departure. Carmelo is an exceptional scorer no doubt about it, he's superior in the low post. But I think the people that actually believe Carmelo has the edge in scoring, were significantly influenced by his play in FIBA.

Gilbert Arenas led the league in scoring for a short span of time, is he better then Kobe too? I think you missed my point, I never said Carmelo wasn't a great scorer, he simply isn't on par with Kobe. I don't mind people claiming he's close to Kobe, because that would be a fact.

Well if you bothered to read my previous post I actually said;

1. Kobe
2. Melo

So we agree on that point. However, my point was that it's a much closer comparison than some are saying. I could easily see Carmelo getting 3 or more scoring titles in his career.

bdreason

10-04-2007, 02:35 AM

oh and don't listen to knowitall or whatever his name is...

That kid lives to bag on Kobe, but offers nothing else.

JPR

10-04-2007, 03:03 AM

if we're speaking strictly NBA, all day Kobe.

If we are speaking clutch in the NBA, all day Kobe.

it's when you bring in team USA that Melo really rises to the top like all good things do (for example: crack).

josh_3089406

10-04-2007, 05:10 AM

what is Melo's career high? i predict Melo will never drop 60. much less 60 in 3 quarters.
of course, only a handful of players ever dropped 60, so it should not reflect negatively on Melo.

Oh definately. But if a player is going to score 60+ he is going to have to attempt a lot of shots to get it! I mean, if Kobe attempts 40 shots and 30 free throws, one would hope he'd score atleast more than 65

Loki

10-04-2007, 09:52 AM

Let's see ... LeBron James was in the topic of conversation for best player in the league. What did he do you say?

25 PPG (42 FG%)
7 rpg
7 apg
1 spg

Yes, he got to the Finals. But does that in any way represent the hype he got going there?

It was 25.1/8.1/8.0, for the record, not that that excuses his poor efficiency. But averaging 8 reb/8 ast for a 20-game playoff run is mighty impressive all by itself, never mind getting to the Finals as the leader of your team. Kobe's best all-around numbers in a postseason were 7.1 reb/6.1 ast, for comparison's sake.

Knoe Itawl

10-04-2007, 10:20 AM

And yet with all of that chatter Mamba, er Swoosh, you STILL can't point out to me how Kobe Bryant has had stellar playoff runs that clearly separate him from the pack, going back to when he tried to take over the team (2004) and when he got his own team. You can't do it. One year his team missed the playoffs, and the next two playoff series he was inconsistant, with flat out BAD play at times (how can you justify shooting like 28% in the 4th when you're the BEST, most clutch player in the league? You can't unless you just want to drink the Kobe Kool-Aid no matter what). He flat out STUNK in the FINALS (you know, where you're supposed to elevate your game, especially if you get comparisons to Jordan) and he was inconsistant in his next two playoff series (culminating one year in a Game 7 choke job/quit, whichever one and the next year shooting less than 30% in the most crucial part of the game).

That doesn't scream "obviously" the best player in the league as you previously indicated. You can type War & Peace sized fluff pieces to endorse Bryant but it doesn't change that.

As for what his peers say, I could give a shyt about that. I only care about what I see on the COURT. I've been watching the NBA for 20 years so I can keep my own council on what's going on. That's the beauty of sports. People can say whatever they want, hype whatever they want but the truth will come out on the court.

No matter how you try to slip slide twist and get out of it, Bryant has certainly not played like "obviously" the best player in the game when it counts most...........the playoffs. There is also an argument for a couple of other players being in his league in the regular season too.

Ain't no "obviously" about it.

Knoe Itawl

10-04-2007, 10:30 AM

I'd love to see you say that to the droves of nba players who say that or things exactly like it every year. Not because it being their opinion makes it a fact, because it doesn't, .

Only worthwhile thing said in that entire diatribe.

Knoe Itawl

10-04-2007, 10:35 AM

.If Kobe's to be proclaimed the best player in the game, he has to elevate his play to super un-godly levels in order to solidify that he is one of and/or the game's greatest current player. But at the same time you don't hold that standard for anyone else, because no one has come even close to doing anything like that ... and I'm pretty sure you don't consider Bryant the best player in the league, or even in the discussion, BASED off what I've quickly gathered from your comments. Which then in turn brings me back to this statement ...

I think Wade elevated his level pretty high during Miami's championship run. Certainly higher than anything I've seen from Kobe in the playoffs, and then he had a flat out KILLER Finals series, filled with clutch play, scoring, assists, etc. Yet, it's blasphemy to suggest he's on the same level or maybe even better than Bryant by Bryant fans. Why? What has Bryant done that's been so much beter than that? I honestly don't get it. I dont get what he's done that's so much better than Bron's playoff runs.

But the point is, not that Kobe isn't one of the best player in the league because he is, it's when people try to get all slick and say shyt like "he's obviously the best" or "he's clearly the best" and all that type of nonsense when that's yet to be proven in a manner sufficient to make those kinds of claims.

MaxFly

10-04-2007, 12:43 PM

the better question is...

WHO IS THE BETTER SCORER: MELO OR DWADE??

I'd take Melo as a scorer, D. Wade as an all around player.

Carmelo is an outstanding scorer, and I'm sure his performance during this summer's FIBA basketball tournament solidified that in the minds of many, as it sould have, but it is unfair to compare Bryant and Melo as scorers right now. Bryant's obviously at or nearing his peak... We should wait a few years to see what Melo can do.

SMH @ people claiming that Melo is the better scorer, or claiming that it's close right now. http://forums.sohh.com/images/smilies/huh.gif

Los Angeles

10-04-2007, 12:44 PM

What does SMH mean? Always wondered.

clayton

10-04-2007, 12:49 PM

Kobe. Proven scorer. Proven clutcher. Pretty much the most-claimed "greatest of this generation" by a lot of old-school ballers and coaches. But lets not go there.

MaxFly

10-04-2007, 12:49 PM

What does SMH mean? Always wondered.

Shaking my head...

bdreason

10-04-2007, 02:09 PM

As for what his peers say, I could give a shyt about that. I only care about what I see on the COURT. I've been watching the NBA for 20 years so I can keep my own council on what's going on. That's the beauty of sports. People can say whatever they want, hype whatever they want but the truth will come out on the court.

ROFL I'll take the opinion of people who actually played the game over some random internet nerd anyday.

Thanks for the input though.

Knoe Itawl

10-04-2007, 02:52 PM

ROFL I'll take the opinion of people who actually played the game over some random internet nerd anyday.

Thanks for the input though.

That's always the cop out for people who can't point to how Kobe's shown he's "obviously" better than the rest of the league or think for themselves.

picc84

10-04-2007, 03:42 PM

Only worthwhile thing said in that entire diatribe.

Still waiting for you to stop acting like only Kobe fans think he's the best player so you don't have the "groopies think [this] and [that] because they are groopies" crap to fall back on, every single thread. Sure, its stupid to think its inarguable Kobe's the best player in the league. How about you shed your everyone-is-a-kobe-groopie attitude so you can stop arguing that its inarguable he's *not*.

Joey3000

10-04-2007, 04:05 PM

dejordan

10-04-2007, 04:22 PM

i'm going to go with marbury on this one. that guy doesn't even need to be in the building to score. just give him an intern and the backseat of a truck!

picc84

10-04-2007, 04:27 PM

Melo VS Kobe

3pointer: Kobe
Midrange: equal
driving ability: slight edge to Kobe (but arguably equal)
Post game: Melo
Off Ball movement: Melo
Passing: Neither one of them is known for passing.
Clutch: Gotta give it to Kobe.... it is even unfair to compare the 2 on this category at this point in their carears.

Ive thought about it, and I give Kobe the slight edge, but he is not BY FARRRRR better like many are making it out to be. Infact, if Melo works hard, he has the potential to end up having the better carear. If he and AI gel right... along with that awsome team, they can take over where the spurs left/ leave off.

What does their passing have to do with who's a better scorer?

Knoe Itawl

10-04-2007, 04:29 PM

Still waiting for you to stop acting like only Kobe fans think he's the best player so you don't have the "groopies think [this] and [that] because they are groopies" crap to fall back on, every single thread. Sure, its stupid to think its inarguable Kobe's the best player in the league. How about you shed your everyone-is-a-kobe-groopie attitude so you can stop arguing that its inarguable he's *not*.

It's really pretty simple. When someone starts in with Kobe's OBVIOUSLY the best player in the league, I take exception to that. Since I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that it may as well be fact that he is, I'm going to point out why. I just don't accept it as a given that he is, and I think certain individuals like to perpetuate that idea as if it's fact.

Now, if someone wants to say "In my opinion Kobe is the best" or "A lot of people think Kobe is the best", "Kobe is among the best", etc. I don't have a problem with it. But when someone tries the whole "Kobe is the best, and it's as much a fact as the sun is yellow" type of talk I'm going to ask that the person back up his statements with reasons as to why (beyond what "so and so" said) and express my opinion as to why I disagree with it. With Kobe, there's just too much you can point to to make it "obvious" that he's the best.

picc84

10-04-2007, 04:39 PM

It's really pretty simple. When someone starts in with Kobe's OBVIOUSLY the best player in the league, I take exception to that. Since I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that it may as well be fact that he is, I'm going to point out why. I just don't accept it as a given that he is, and I think certain individuals like to perpetuate that idea as if it's fact.

Good. Thats fair. However I have yet to see you respond to anyone other than Kobe fans specifically who say Kobe is obviously the best player in the league, or something similar. You're standard response seems to be attacking their status as Kobe fans and declaring them incapable of reasonable thought because of it.

For the record, I do not believe Kobe is the best player in the league. I don't even believe he's 'obviously' the best swingman. However, for you to attribute anyone's feelings that he "obviously" is the best to sheer groopie-ism is faulty, considering the # of non-laker fans who feel the same way. Whats your excuse for them?

Joey3000

10-04-2007, 05:11 PM

What does their passing have to do with who's a better scorer?

Just through it in there cuz a good pass can lead to a score for their team. You dont always have to put the ball in the basket to be reposible for a score.

Knoe Itawl

10-04-2007, 05:27 PM

Good. Thats fair. However I have yet to see you respond to anyone other than Kobe fans specifically who say Kobe is obviously the best player in the league, or something similar. You're standard response seems to be attacking their status as Kobe fans and declaring them incapable of reasonable thought because of it.

For the record, I do not believe Kobe is the best player in the league. I don't even believe he's 'obviously' the best swingman. However, for you to attribute anyone's feelings that he "obviously" is the best to sheer groopie-ism is faulty, considering the # of non-laker fans who feel the same way. Whats your excuse for them?

Well, actually, I don't really see "other" fans perpetuating this idea with anywhere NEAR the regularity of Kobe fans but anyone who does so is subject to a rebuttal from me. It's just that Bryant fans are primarily the ones I see making this claim. In fact, the overwhelming majority of the hyperbole concerning him (Jordan comparisons, "best in the league by far", greatest scorer in history, etc.) seem to come from his fans. Others tend to be more reasonable concerning his game.

josh_3089406

10-05-2007, 01:47 AM

Melo VS Kobe

3pointer: Kobe
Midrange: equal
driving ability: slight edge to Kobe (but arguably equal)
Post game: Melo
Off Ball movement: Melo
Passing: Neither one of them is known for passing.
Clutch: Gotta give it to Kobe.... it is even unfair to compare the 2 on this category at this point in their carears.

Ive thought about it, and I give Kobe the slight edge, but he is not BY FARRRRR better like many are making it out to be. Infact, if Melo works hard, he has the potential to end up having the better carear. If he and AI gel right... along with that awsome team, they can take over where the spurs left/ leave off.

Kobe averaged 5.4 apg last season to Melo's 3.8
And in the last playoffs Kobe averaged 4.4 to Melo's 1.2
So saying that neither one of them is known for passing is irrelevant. Because Kobe is clearly the better passer!
And when Anthony gets his title, it won't be as a Nugget

IGOTGAME

05-03-2012, 09:33 PM

It is sad that was even asked.

bwink23

05-03-2012, 09:36 PM

I don't like Kobe at all, and i even know the answer to this silly question.

Jotaro Durant

05-03-2012, 09:38 PM

this asked in 2007 rly?

krazymofo

05-03-2012, 09:49 PM

QQ on the necro-posting!

pauk

05-03-2012, 09:49 PM

Are you serious???

Kobe is a much better scorer than Brickelo Anthony

Kobe 4 The Win

05-03-2012, 10:04 PM

Marshmelo Anthony sucks nuts.

Calabis

05-03-2012, 10:44 PM

Is this really a serious question? Although its not by miles, Kobe hands down

LABean

05-03-2012, 11:17 PM

Worst thread I've seen on ISH. :facepalm

Please don't ever compare Crapmelo to Godbe. :bowdown:

Mr. Jabbar

05-03-2012, 11:46 PM

Look at that ignorant fool Knoe Itawl, he still around this site spreading his stupidity and hate towards the asassin.

Legends66NBA7

05-04-2012, 01:24 AM

Look at that ignorant fool Knoe Itawl, he still around this site spreading his stupidity and hate towards the asassin.

This thread is 4+ years old.

That discussion was 4+ years ago.

Mr. Jabbar

05-04-2012, 01:32 AM

This thread is 4+ years old.

That discussion was 4+ years ago.

lol i know

ronniec

05-04-2012, 03:45 PM

Serious?
Kobe is a baller that you love to hate, and what him to play on your team.
Melo is a cancer that you just hate, and what him to play on the opposing team.