Atheists.

[SuperboyXX0018]

What makes you not believe in God?

-You can't see him?

-Because of all the suffering in the world?

-Because of science?


WHAT?

[bk33]

coz they failed to convince me there's god?

[B-Low]

1. I'm not atheist

2. It's not that i DONT believe in God, it's that i don't CARE if God exists or not. I live my life the way i know I'm supposed to live my life, by helping others when they need it and doing what i can to make the world a better place. No I don't do it because i'll be rewarded with a better afterlife, i do it because it's the right thing to do. If that makes me evil in your eyes then i guess I'm evil and going to hell, but in my opinion I'm a much better person for doing good for the benefit of others as opposed you doing good for your own eternal benefit. I don't need God's motivation to be good.

But yeah you're weird...

[SuperboyXX0018]

coz they failed to convince me there's god?


So all the complexity of the universe is not enough?

[SuperboyXX0018]

2.
It's not that i DONT believe in God, it's that i don't CARE if God exists or not. I live my life the way i know I'm supposed to live my life, by helping others when they need it and doing what i can to make the world a better place.

What's the point of doing that if you don't believe in a higher purpose to life?



No I don't do it because i'll be rewarded with a better afterlife, i do it because it's the right thing to do. If that makes me evil in your eyes then i guess I'm evil and going to hell, but in my opinion I'm a much better person for doing good for the benefit of others as opposed you doing good for your own eternal benefit. I don't need God's motivation to be good.


But there is no eternal reward..... in other words its a waste of time.

[B-Low]

No it's not a waste of time because I'm helping somebody. See that's what separates you from me. Somebody asks you why you do good and you say "so i can go to heaven". Somebody asks me why i do good and i say "because it was the right thing to do". I'm not seeking any gratification. I'm doing it because I'm a good person. The fact that you call helping someone just for the sake of helping them a waste of time shows that you are the very thing christianity is supposed to go against. You're greedy because you're only in it for your own benefit.

[Darsh]

Because f*cking lunatics like you DO believe in God.

[SuperboyXX0018]

No it's not a waste of time because I'm helping somebody. See that's what separates you from me. Somebody asks you why you do good and you say "so i can go to heaven". Somebody asks me why i do good and i say "because it was the right thing to do".

Again, what is the purpose of life without eternal judgement for it?



I'm not seeking any gratification. I'm doing it because I'm a good person. The fact that you call helping someone just for the sake of helping them a waste of time shows that you are the very thing christianity is supposed to go against. You're greedy because you're only in it for your own benefit.

No, my situation is more complicated. And its not about you, and what you do, we were not created for ourselves. I'm sorry but its the truth.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Because f*cking lunatics like you DO believe in God.


Come on, thats childish.

[B-Low]

lol aight man whatever you say. I'll do my thing for my reasons, you do yours for yours. That's my take on all this

[reppy]

I believe in a Creator, but not religion.

[SuperboyXX0018]

lol aight man whatever you say. I'll do my thing for my reasons, you do yours for yours. That's my take on all this


Its your inner selfishness and pride that blinds you. I can see that.

[Holden Magroine]

I don't believe in god because I'm too old for fairy tales and make believe.

[SuperboyXX0018]

I believe in a Creator, but not religion.


Good, because religion is false.

[SuperboyXX0018]

I don't believe in god because I'm too old for fairy tales and make believe.

Stop watching TV. The spirit world is more real than this world. How do you explain creation?

[Darsh]

Again, what is the purpose of life without eternal judgement for it?

Ever consider that there might not be a purpose to life?

Life having a purpose is purely speculation.

A higher power may exist, but im not buying into it. Just the way i feel.

[Kungfro]

I think it's important that there be atheists. Believing in god would leave us satisfied with our picture of the universe. Christians once supported earth as being the center of the universe. If the existance of god had never been questioned, our grasp of the universe would be very limited.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Ever consider that there might not be a purpose to life?

Then nothing would exist.


Life having a purpose is purely speculation.

Yeah, for dummies.


A higher power may exist, but im not buying into it. Just the way i feel.

Why?

[Darsh]

Then nothing would exist.

Errr, why not?


Yeah, for dummies.

How very insightful........:rolleyes:


Why?

Because there is no proof.

[Holden Magroine]

Stop watching TV. The spirit world is more real than this world. How do you explain creation?

Spirit world more real? Based on what? Have you been there? :lol:

Anyway, this whole thing will eventually boil down to you not having any more proof than the atheists that there is a such thing as god.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Errr, why not?

Something always had to exist, nothing can't create nothing, so with all the intelligent design its clear there is a God and he has a purpose for us.


How very insightful........:rolleyes:

Its common sense man....:ohwell:


Because there is no proof.

Are you blind?

[SuperboyXX0018]

Spirit world more real? Based on what? Have you been there? :lol:

Not yet, but I had two encounters with it. And there is something called NDE's.


Anyway, this whole thing will eventually boil down to you not having any more proof than the atheists that there is a such thing as god.

Are you blind?

[Kungfro]

Not yet, but I had two encounters with it. And there is something called NDE's.?

Is that a drug? I could see that getting you closer to the spiritual world.

[Darsh]

OK, agree to disagree. We are both clearly on different wavelengths, and that makes for some seriously frustrating (not to mention pointless) arguing.

[Holden Magroine]

Not yet, but I had two encounters with it. And there is something called NDE's.



Are you blind?

You had encounters... ok I guess I'm suppose to take your word for that. Also, I don't believe in NDE's, sorry.

And no there is nothing wrong with my eyes, but thank you for asking.

[SuperboyXX0018]

You had encounters... ok I guess I'm suppose to take your word for that. Also, I don't believe in NDE's, sorry.

Arrogance.

[B-Low]

OK, agree to disagree. We are both clearly on different wavelengths, and that makes for some seriously frustrating (not to mention pointless) arguing.

Same mentality i used on page 1. It's not worth the aggrevation

[Darsh]

Same mentality i used on page 1. It's not worth the aggrevation

Amen to that. :D

[ElPigto]

Dude, who the hell are you trying to save? I mean seriously, why do you consider that everyone is lost in this world? Is it because the church told you so, or does reading the Bible give you some sort of indication that everyone is lost?

I think you should worry about saving yourself rather than scolding everyone for not thinking to your standards. Everyone has different beliefs and at one point or another you will have to grow up and accept that this world has a variety of thinkers.

[ihatetimthomas]

Debates like these are never ending and pointless. People have there views and they are not going to be changed by ISH posts. They certainly are not going to be swayed by the way SuperboyXX0018 is debating this. You are not providing any real responses to everyone elses responses other than they are wrong. Your responses consist of why? and senseless remarks. Why not explain why these are your views and why you dont believe in the other responses. Not just asking why not and saying people are dumb for their views on God

[ElPigto]

Something always had to exist, nothing can't create nothing, so with all the intelligent design its clear there is a God and he has a purpose for us.


Yes, it's called energy. Ever heard of the Law of Conservation of Energy?

How about matter?

So yes, something has always existed.

[geeWiz15]

the idea that life is a waste of time if there is no eternal reward is perhaps the most evil thought ever propagated throughout mankind. it is the worst possible way to live. and yes it is possible to see, experience, and perpetuate the divine without being religious or believing in God.

what matters is right now. the people around you, helping them. not because you want a one-way ticket to heaven when you check out but because that is what LIFE, now, is about, because it makes you feel good to help others, even if you can't explain why.

speaking of which why does everyone have to come up with their own inevitably wrong answers to the things they will never understand? why not just accept that we don't know, we can't know, that all we've got is 60-100 years to lead the best life we can by making the most out of each day and what is presents to you.

that's why western spirituality is a bunch of ****. it's so false. all anyone cares about is superficial. "I'll cheat on my wife, but it'll be ok cause I'll just go to confession afterward." "I'll drink and hook up throughout college, but then I'll lead a righteous lifestyle once I graduate." "I can't help it. I'm human. we're all sinners. all we can do is lead our lives and ask Jesus to forgive us."

it's so ****ing misguided and stupid.

[ihatetimthomas]

the idea that life is a waste of time if there is no eternal reward is perhaps the most evil thought ever propagated throughout mankind. it is the worst possible way to live. and yes it is possible to see, experience, and perpetuate the divine without being religious or believing in God.

what matters is right now. the people around you, helping them. not because you want a one-way ticket to heaven when you check out but because that is what LIFE, now, is about, because it makes you feel good to help others, even if you can't explain why.

speaking of which why does everyone have to come up with their own inevitably wrong answers to the things they will never understand? why not just accept that we don't know, we can't know, that all we've got is 60-100 years to lead the best life we can by making the most out of each day and what is presents to you.


that's why western spirituality is a bunch of ****. it's so false. all anyone cares about is superficial. "I'll cheat on my wife, but it'll be ok cause I'll just go to confession afterward." "I'll drink and hook up throughout college, but then I'll lead a righteous lifestyle once I graduate." "I can't help it. I'm human. we're all sinners. all we can do is lead our lives and ask Jesus to forgive us."

it's so ****ing misguided and stupid.

You are doing exactly what SuperboyXX0018 is doing. Condeming others for their views. There is no need to condemn others for their views. If one wants to believe in GOd, then so be it. They should be able to do so without others puttting down their views. You really are generalizing spirituality and that is not fair to those who truly believe in God to be put in the superficial category. Same goes for atheists. If they believe this, they also shouldnt be condemned and labeled as "ignorant" for their views. This is why I try to never put down other peoples views. People are allowed to believe what they want and shouldnt be persecuted for it. I try not to be closeminded to others views because if someone truly believes in something, I can respect that. The real problem is people being so closed minded to other people views without trying to reason with them or even understand them. Both religious people and atheist have this problem

[SuperboyXX0018]

Yes, it's called energy. Ever heard of the Law of Conservation of Energy?

How about matter?

So yes, something has always existed.


God is transcending, he's not like anything you can ever imagine.

[SuperboyXX0018]

You are doing exactly what SuperboyXX0018 is doing. Condeming others for their views. There is no need to condemn others for their views.

I can't condemn anyone, I don't have that power. I'm trying to help the lost...

[ihatetimthomas]

I can't condemn anyone, I don't have that power. I'm trying to help the lost...

There are better ways than how you are going about it

[Heretik32]

If there is no god, so be it.
If there is a god, he's an *******, so I can't be bothered worshipping him. I mean, thanks for creation and all, but why the hell did he let is go to waste like that? Once he cleans up his mess we can talk about proper worship, but until then I just don't see a point in praying to a guy that stands by and watches the kind of ****ed up **** that's going on down here.

My two cents. And thanks for asking, I'm enjoying life even though there's no "higher value" to it. I enjoy it because I improve other people's life by being nice to them and because I love my fellow humans.

"Be nice or burn in hell" is so primary school. Be good for goodness' sake, man.

[SuperboyXX0018]

There are better ways than how you are going about it


Which are?

[SuperboyXX0018]

If there is no god, so be it.
If there is a god, he's an *******, so I can't be bothered worshipping him. I mean, thanks for creation and all, but why the hell did he let is go to waste like that? Once he cleans up his mess we can talk about proper worship, but until then I just don't see a point in praying to a guy that stands by and watches the kind of ****ed up **** that's going on down here.

My two cents. And thanks for asking, I'm enjoying life even though there's no "higher value" to it. I enjoy it because I improve other people's life by being nice to them and because I love my fellow humans.

"Be nice or burn in hell" is so primary school. Be good for goodness' sake, man.


READ-THE-BIBLE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDF2Ag05K0Y

[ihatetimthomas]

Which are?


You are not providing any real responses to everyone elses responses other than they are wrong. Your responses consist of why? and senseless remarks. Why not explain why these are your views and why you dont believe in the other responses. Not just asking why not and saying people are dumb for their views on God


Most people havnt read the bible so you cant expect people to understand where you are comming from. Thats part of the problem is. How do you expect people to comprehend any of your responses without the proper information?

[Heretik32]

READ-THE-BIBLE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDF2Ag05K0Y
You wouldn't believe how bible-literate I actually am, having been raised hardline catholic. But you know what: If you strip all the fuzz and funny talk from the bible, all you get with is basic common sense: be good to others and don't behave like an a-hole. And I don't need religion or god to do that.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Most people havnt read the bible so you cant expect people to understand where you are comming from. Thats part of the problem is. How do you expect people to comprehend any of your responses without the proper information?


Okay, but I have to make these threads in the morning now, so things are going to be a little short.

[SuperboyXX0018]

You wouldn't believe how bible-literate I actually am, having been raised hardline catholic. But you know what: If you strip all the fuzz and funny talk from the bible, all you get with is basic common sense: be good to others and don't behave like an a-hole. And I don't need religion or god to do that.

There is so much more than that.....

[kwajo]

So all the complexity of the universe is not enough?
Why should complexity necessitate a Deity?

[RainierBeachPoet]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

this thread is more of the same from the boy...



here are some of my random thoughts:

while there are some purely vowed atheists, most people will say they believe in something-- God, mystery, goodness, beauty, truth, healing...

the "problem" or perhaps challenge is unpacking what this is.

many people reject what is an adolescent image/definition of God (usually what is a caracature-- a all-seeing white bearded old man in the sky who is like a uber-santa claus) and

many people can reject red flagged words such as: salvation, hell, heaven, repentence, etc. these words can shut-down people to listening more in depth or discussing religion with any substance.

one's own bad experiences with self-righteous, judgemental christians can negatively color ones views about religion




one cannot talk one into relationships. we experience relationships. this applies to relationship with God too


good religion can help understand ourselves and others in all of our relationships and the real experiences of life:

the hurts, betrayals, joys, death, confusion, hope, fidelity, honor, love, justice, beauty

good religion opens us to other ways of viewing this world, ourselves, others because of a deeper understanding of the mystery we call God

we can sense this-- words often fail us in describing this mystery



i havent described things well--- there are just some thoughts to stir the pot


i know that i have also written similiar words in previous threads regarding religion/God so be patient with my redundancy

[Lebron23]

I am telling you right now Superboy is the reincarnation of the Anti Christs.

:roll: :lol: :roll:

[Take Your Lumps]

But there is no eternal reward..... in other words its a waste of time.

How old are you?

[Randy]

No it's not a waste of time because I'm helping somebody. See that's what separates you from me. Somebody asks you why you do good and you say "so i can go to heaven". Somebody asks me why i do good and i say "because it was the right thing to do". I'm not seeking any gratification. I'm doing it because I'm a good person. The fact that you call helping someone just for the sake of helping them a waste of time shows that you are the very thing christianity is supposed to go against. You're greedy because you're only in it for your own benefit.

:bowdown:

Exactly. Volunteering and helping those less fortunate in the hopes that it pleases god is quite selfish and diminishes the whole concept of "being a good person".

Everyone is a little selfish when doing good, it makes us feel good that we helped someone out, so there is always a little sense of self-satisfaction there. But to say that you wouldn't go good if there was no god and no eternal reward for doing so is about the lowest, most evil thing a person could say.

[Chalkmaze]

SUPERBOY

http://www.movv.com/prvupload/uploads/super_retard_stfu.jpg

[Take Your Lumps]

Those in bold are the only ones that count, of course.

Agdistis or Angdistis
Ah Puch
Ahura Mazda
Alberich
Amaterasu
An
Anat
Andvari
Anshar
Anu
Aphrodite
Apollo
Apsu
Ares
Artemis
Asclepius
Athena
Athirat
Athtart
Atlas
Baal
Ba Xian
Bacchus
Balder
Bast
Bellona
Bergelmir
Bes
Bixia Yuanjin
Bragi
Brahma
Brigit
Camaxtli
Ceres
Ceridwen
Cernunnos
Chac
Chalchiuhtlicue
Charun
Cheng-huang
Cybele
Dagon
Damkina (Dumkina)
Davlin
Demeter
Diana
Di Cang
Dionysus
Ea
El
Enki
Enlil
Epona
Ereskigal
Farbauti
Fenrir
Forseti
Freya
Freyr
Frigg
Gaia
Ganesha
Ganga
Garuda
Gauri
Geb
Geong Si
God
Hades
Hanuman
Helios
Heng-o (Chang-o)
Hephaestus
Hera
Hermes
Hestia
Hod
Hoderi
Hoori
Horus
Hotei
Huitzilopochtli
Hsi-Wang-Mu
Hygeia
Inanna
Inti
Ishtar
Isis
Ixtab
Izanaki
Izanami
Jesus
Juno
Jupiter
Juturna
Kagutsuchi
Kartikeya
Khepri
Ki
Kingu
Kinich Ahau
Kishar
Krishna
Kukulcan
Lakshmi
Liza
Loki
Lugh
Luna
Magna Mater
Maia
Marduk
Mars
Medb
Mercury
Mimir
Minerva
Mithras
Morrigan
Mot
Mummu
Nammu
Nanna
Nanna (Norse)
Nanse
Neith
Nemesis
Nephthys
Neptune
Nergal
Ninazu
Ninhurzag
Nintu
Ninurta
Njord
Nut
Odin
Ohkuninushi
Ohyamatsumi
Orgelmir
Osiris
Ostara
Pan
Parvati
Phaethon
Phoebe
Pilumnus
Poseidon
Quetzalcoatl
Rama
Re
Rhea
Sabazius
Sarasvati
Selene
Shiva
Seshat
Seti (Set)
Shamash
Shapsu
Shen Yi
Shiva
Shu
Si-Wang-Mu
Sin
Sirona
Sol
Surya
Susanoh
Tawaret
Tefnut
Tezcatlipoca
Thanatos
Thor
Tiamat
Tlaloc
Tonatiuh
Toyo-Uke-Bime
Tyche
Tyr
Utu
Uzume
Venus
Vesta
Vishnu
Volturnus
Vulcan
Xipe
Xi Wang-mu
Xochipilli
Xochiquetzal
Yam
Yarikh
Ymir
Yu-huang
Yum Kimil

[Doomsday Dallas]

You left out the Devil... otherwise known as Satan...

people worship him too.

[SuperboyXX0018]

How old are you?


Serving a God gives a purpose and meaning to life that otherwise isn't there.

[Chalkmaze]

Serving a God gives a purpose and meaning to life that otherwise isn't there.
up yours!

[Doomsday Dallas]

Serving a God gives a purpose and meaning to life that otherwise isn't there.

You got that right.

But God has to come into your life first.
You can't just snap your fingers and become spiritual.

Normally it takes a tragedy for people to seek God...
But on the rare occassion he just gives you a sign that he's there...

God has given me plenty of signs.

[SuperboyXX0018]

You got that right.

But God has to come into your life first.
You can't just snap your fingers and become spiritual.

Normally it takes a tragedy for people to seek God...
But on the rare occassion he just gives you a sign that he's there...

God has given me plenty of signs.


He gave me a sign LITERALLY.

[Randy]

So those of us who haven't "seen signs" are just left for hell? God just forgot about us or what?

Thanks a lot, God :ohwell:


:violin:

[SuperboyXX0018]

So those of us who haven't "seen signs" are just left for hell? God just forgot about us or what?

Thanks a lot, God :ohwell:


:violin:


Depends on your heart.

[Doomsday Dallas]

So those of us who haven't "seen signs" are just left for hell? God just forgot about us or what?

Thanks a lot, God :ohwell:


:violin:

Maybe you should just watch the movie Signs...

Are you a miracle man... or a coinsedence man?

[ElPigto]

So those of us who haven't "seen signs" are just left for hell? God just forgot about us or what?

Thanks a lot, God :ohwell:


:violin:

Sorry Randy. I'll occasionally try to visit you from heaven.

[boozehound]

Sorry Randy. I'll occasionally try to visit you from heaven.
if there aint no whiskey and wimmen behind them heavenly doors
Ill take my chances down below and of that you can be sure.

NO DEAL, you cant sell that stuff to me




A better question Superduperboy, would be what makes you believe there is a god? You are postulating the existence of an unknowable entitity and trying to "explain" things beyond human comprehension. You are the one required to provide evidence. atheists on the other hand are making no claims beyond the knowable so, therefore, have no burden of proof.


Thats right, your little outgrowth of Judiasm that has been subject to any number of human intercessions and transcribed and translated multiple times is clearly the true will of god, but all the other holy texts in the history of the world (and there are thousands) are clearly false... :rolleyes:

what a ****ing double standard

[SuperboyXX0018]

A better question Superduperboy, would be what makes you believe there is a god?


Common sense.

[Randy]

Common sense.

That's your best defense of your beliefs?

Pathetic...

[Heretik32]

Maybe you should just watch the movie Signs...

Are you a miracle man... or a coinsedence man?
Mostly I'm a man that doesn't believe EVERY SINGLE THEORY OR THING thrown at him. Just cause it's on the internet or in a book or in a movie doesn't mean it's true, you know. Just cause someone preaches it doesn't mean it's true.
Start thinking for yourself. Clinging to faith just cause it's easier is pathetic.

[boozehound]

Common sense.
if it were as simple as that, how come everyone who has heard of jesus doesnt immediately become a xtian?

[DeuceWallaces]

Christianity is such a crock of ****. It's only been around a couple thousand years. You can go through the archaelogic records for 10's of thousands of years before that with zero evidence of your whole belief system.

Just a bunch of pagans revolting against the religious establishment of the time.

[The Answer]

Anyway, this whole thing will eventually boil down to you not having any more proof than the atheists that there is a such thing as god.

The burden of proof rests not with the atheist but the theist. There's as much proof of the existance of unicorns as there is an ominiscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent being. Because of this lack of proof, I see no reason to believe in unicorns. Why should I believe in god?

[The Answer]

Common sense.

By all means, enlighten the world with this common sense, which the rest of us seem to be lacking.

[brantonli]

Because I don't think God exists, so why believe in him? I'm dying to see what you would reply to this.

[Take Your Lumps]

Faith requires the partial suspension of logic and reason.

Sounds like common sense to me!

[Sean77]

Isn't it funny how RainierBeachPoet hasn't even touched this conversation? Rightly so, I have a strange feeling the original question was not asked out of a sincere desire to know why athiests don't believe in God. Could be wrong, of course, in fact I hope I am in that regard.

[qrich]

Common sense.

Beautiful one line response that does nothing for this thread nor for your argument, which is pretty weak.


The burden of proof rests not with the atheist but the theist. There's as much proof of the existance of unicorns as there is an ominiscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent being. Because of this lack of proof, I see no reason to believe in unicorns. Why should I believe in god?

[/thread]

[Take Your Lumps]

After the French Revolution, one of the first things Napoleon did was to reinstate the Church. He said, "The promise of rewards in the afterlife is the only thing that keeps the poor from slaughtering the rich in this life."

[Doomsday Dallas]

Mostly I'm a man that doesn't believe EVERY SINGLE THEORY OR THING thrown at him. Just cause it's on the internet or in a book or in a movie doesn't mean it's true, you know. Just cause someone preaches it doesn't mean it's true.
Start thinking for yourself. Clinging to faith just cause it's easier is pathetic.

You are half right...

I'm talking about a spiritual life...

A prayer life...

A relationship with GOD....

Books and stories only go so far... faith is up to you.
You think I cling to faith? you are mistaken.




Go ahead and live this life with the Godlessness you people have.
Somebody is very happy with it.

[Randy]

Go ahead and live this life with the Godlessness you people have.
Somebody is very happy with it.


Yeah, because you know all of us on a personal level so well :rolleyes:

STFU


I was about to send you a PM saying "keep up the good posts and not spamming the front page" too. Whoops, spoke too soon I guess...

What does godlessness even mean? Without the Xtain god? Count me in, then.

[apriorist]

There is no 'burden of proof' for those of us that say God exists. We're accepting it on faith, so we're saying from the start that God can't be proven since God exists outside of what science can measure. On the other hand, science can't explain why anything exists. Since something can't come from nothing, according to science, *science* shouldn't even exists. So atheists are in a bind of their own. Seems to me like no one should be an atheist. At worse, there should be only non-God leaning agnostics.

[gts]

Go ahead and live this life with the Godlessness you people have.
Somebody is very happy with it. by somebody i'm assuming you mean satan?

but athiests do not belive in satan.

[Randy]

There is no 'burden of proof' for those of us that say God exists. We're accepting it on faith, so we're saying from the start that God can't be proven since God exists outside of what science can measure. On the other hand, science can't explain why anything exists. Since something can't come from nothing, according to science, *science* shouldn't even exists. So atheists are in a bind of their own. Seems to me like no one should be an atheist. At worse, there should be only non-God leaning agnostics.

Where did god come from then? Please answer throughly.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Where did god come from then?

I perfer to exercise my brain.


God was always there.... IMO.



This thread is called Atheists... which believe there is no God.

I hope you aren't an atheist... If you want to exercize your brain,
then say you are agnostic, and that way you will remain open-minded.

Ever been to a funeral Randy?.... Oh wait, you said you wanted to
be cremated after your organs are donated.






Maybe we are all living in the Matrix.

[The Answer]

There is no 'burden of proof' for those of us that say God exists. We're accepting it on faith


I have no problem with theists as long as they acknowledge their beliefs are based entirely on faith. People like Superboy, however, adhere to the notion that it is a logical fact that god exists. This is simply not true.

[SCY]

Since something can't come from nothing, according to science, *science* shouldn't even exists. So atheists are in a bind of their own. Seems to me like no one should be an atheist. At worse, there should be only non-God leaning agnostics.

Why does this "something" necessarily have to be a creator, or specifically the Christian God? I'd consider myself an agnostic, but I strongly believe that there are too many contradictions in play for an omnicient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent being to exist. And if I'm wrong, it's God's fault, not mine.

[Borat]

I have no problem with theists as long as they acknowledge their beliefs are based in faith. People like Superboy, however, adhere to this notion that it is a logical fact that god exists. This is simply not true.

exactly, you become a christian by faith. If you need hours of proof, then that is not a good starting point for conversion.

Christianity is based on a 'child like faith' and trusting God with everything. Its very difficult to do that with our independant minds.

The thing is though, every part of life, whether its my relationships, finances, my mind, that I have committed to God in prayer has actually gotten better, so I just stick with it as it works for me.

If God wasnt real to me and wasnt making a difference in my life I wouldnt bother

[RainierBeachPoet]

Isn't it funny how RainierBeachPoet hasn't even touched this conversation? Rightly so, I have a strange feeling the original question was not asked out of a sincere desire to know why athiests don't believe in God. Could be wrong, of course, in fact I hope I am in that regard.

i had a pretty decent response in post #45...:pimp:

[i seen hippos]

I do view it as a fact that something or some things existed that created life (my ass science created ****:lol: ).....but I don't necessarily believe it is the God figure religions proclaim it is.

Not saying it isn't, but I won't believe it just because someone says I will go to heaven if I do.

[DoubleTech]

come with me guys!!! come be... AGNOSTIC!!!

woooooooo!

its the best... really, it is.

you do what you want, when you want. someone wants to believe in god? cool, good luck with that, just don't push it on me... i'll figure it out in my own time.

i've seen "god" change peoples lives for the good, i've also seen people do terrible, unspeakable things in the name of god.

i won't comment on the existence of god... but i do know 1 thing... the bible is absolutely full of sh!t.

history is written as man sees it, not how it actually happens.

question for the god fearing people of this board... dinosaurs? EXPLAIN

[Doomsday Dallas]

dinosaurs? EXPLAIN

Dinosaurs?

Who gives a $hit about Dinosaurs...

Does a man have a soul... yes or no?

[Randy]

God was always there.... IMO.



This thread is called Atheists... which believe there is no God.


Saying God has always been is no different than saying the Universe has always been.

And technically, Atheism is the lack in belief, although Atheism nowadays seems to have taken on it's own version of a religion.




I hope you aren't an atheist... If you want to exercize your brain,
then say you are agnostic, and that way you will remain open-minded.

It's virtually impossible to communicate my belief system other than I think all religions are bogus and manipulate their faithful followers. As for a supreme being.....meh, I'm on the fence about it. In a world as f*cked as ours it's hard to believe in something that is all loving and all powerful though.


Ever been to a funeral Randy?.... Oh wait, you said you wanted to
be cremated after your organs are donated.


Yes, several times. I don't see what funerals or me wanting to be cremated has to do with any of this :confusedshrug:

[raid09]

Superboy and Doomsday Dallas are everything that's wrong with mankind.

[i seen hippos]

Saying God has always been is no different than saying the Universe has always been.

And technically, Atheism is the lack in belief, although Atheism nowadays seems to have taken on it's own version of a religion.





It's virtually impossible to communicate my belief system other than I think all religions are bogus and manipulate their faithful followers. As for a supreme being.....meh, I'm on the fence about it. In a world as f*cked as ours it's hard to believe in something that is all loving and all powerful though.




Yes, several times. I don't see what funerals or me wanting to be cremated has to do with any of this :confusedshrug:

You always make the mistake that God has to be loving. You accuse religions of manipulating the stupid believers and yet you still view God as the loving, caring being that religions want you to believe.

[DoubleTech]

Dinosaurs?

Who gives a $hit about Dinosaurs...

Does a man have a soul... yes or no?


no no hey COME ONN!!! answer the question.

here's a crazy view:

God... is a dinosaur.

he created dinosaurs, in his image, and then after a couple million years of watching them eat eachother he decided... 'eating others is a sin' but the dino's were too dumb to do anything else...

so, he wiped them out, BOOM, and started thinking why the dino's ate each other. and he had an epiphany (sp?) dino's can't make themselves food, they got no hands!

so he made a being with hands, and made them smaller than dinosaurs too... so he could fit more of them on the planet.


now... if i came up with this idea 2 thousand years ago, got a bunch of people to believe me and wrote it down in a book and put 'bible' on it...

whats the difference? it's not like im talking about something CRAZY like someone walking on water.

[Randy]

You always make the mistake that God has to be loving. You accuse religions of manipulating the stupid believers and yet you still view God as the loving, caring being that religions want you to believe.

Wrong.

God has to be all loving otherwise said being is not God.

Fact. Sorry, Charlie.

[Doomsday Dallas]

no no hey COME ONN!!! answer the question.

here's a crazy view:

God... is a dinosaur.

he created dinosaurs, in his image, and then after a couple million years of watching them eat eachother he decided... 'eating others is a sin' but the dino's were too dumb to do anything else...

so, he wiped them out, BOOM, and started thinking why the dino's ate each other. and he had an epiphany (sp?) dino's can't make themselves food, they got no hands!

so he made a being with hands, and made them smaller than dinosaurs too... so he could fit more of them on the planet.


now... if i came up with this a 2 thousand years ago, wrote it down in a book and put 'bible' on it...

whats the difference?


where does it say in the Bible that there are no U.F.O.s and there are
no Dinosaurs.

Never understood the Evolution debate.

You either search for the truth or you don't.

It's up to you what you think is Bull $hit or not.




You say don't throw your beliefs on me?... Well don't talk $hit about mine.

I Never talked $hit about any religous or spiritual beliefs except atheisim,
and Satan Worship.... and Scientology if it counts.

I'll talk $hit about religous institutions all day... Because my church
is inside of my own temple (my body).

If people want to send thier children to get raped by Father John while they
confess everything evil in thier life, and hail the Pope like he's Jesus himself... then talk bad about that.

Leave the Bible alone for another thread... I got some problems with that too... but not willing to discuss right now.

[i seen hippos]

Wrong.

God has to be all loving otherwise said being is not God.

Fact. Sorry, Charlie.

Who told you that? The religious people you pay no attention to?:lol:

[Randy]

Do they not offer Philosophy at canadian universities or what?

The fact that you are trying to argue otherwise only shows your ignorance in the god argument.

[i seen hippos]

Do they not offer Philosophy at canadian universities or what?

The fact that you are trying to argue otherwise only shows your ignorance in the god argument.

You sure do know a lot about God. I always knew you were Pat Robertson trying to give a bad name to atheism.:lol:

Oh, and in Canada we have things called majors and minors. You'd be suprised to learn that philosophy was not my major or my minor.

[Mewwem22]

Think about this guys.

Humans can understand things that animals can only dream of knowing. Animal's minds just can't comprehend some of the things that humans can understand easily... Humans believe that, because they are the most intelligent creatures on earth, they are somehow immune to the "can't comprehend" rule. We just assume that, because we are far superior in knowledge than every other creature, everything that there is to know in the world can be known by us. It's this flawed thinking that leads so many people to reject God without even considering the possibility of there being one...

I believe in God. But I also completely understand why some people have a hard time believing in his existence. I think that believing in God can only be possible though if people admit that there are things in the world that we just can't comprehend.

[apriorist]

Where did god come from then? Please answer throughly.

Something can't come from nothing only within the bounds of science.

[The Answer]

Think about this guys.

Humans can understand things that animals can only dream of knowing. Animal's minds just can't comprehend some of the things that humans can understand easily... Humans believe that, because they are the most intelligent creatures on earth, they are somehow immune to the "can't comprehend" rule. We just assume that, because we are far superior in knowledge than every other creature, everything that there is to know in the world can be known by us. It's this flawed thinking that leads so many people to reject God without even considering the possibility of there being one...

I believe in God. But I also completely understand why some people have a hard time believing in his existence. I think that believing in God can only be possible though if people admit that there are things in the world that we just can't comprehend.

Why would god make his existance incomprehensible to us?

[apriorist]

I have no problem with theists as long as they acknowledge their beliefs are based in faith. People like Superboy, however, adhere to this notion that it is a logical fact that god exists. This is simply not true.

Not exactly. It could be a fact that God exits, but I agree that God can't be proven scientifically.

[The Answer]

Something can't come from nothing only within the bounds of science.

Why? If god can be infinite, why can't the universe?

[apriorist]

Why does this "something" necessarily have to be a creator, or specifically the Christian God? I'd consider myself an agnostic, but I strongly believe that there are too many contradictions in play for an omnicient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent being to exist. And if I'm wrong, it's God's fault, not mine.

What contradictions? Maybe you mean the "unmoved mover" (i.e., "first cause") contraction. My answer is that- I believe- that God exists outside of human logic (or time, or material space, etc).

[apriorist]

Dinosaurs?

Who gives a $hit about Dinosaurs...

Does a man have a soul... yes or no?

:lol: Good answer, Doomsday. Now if you could just be this rational when it comes to 9/11.

[Randy]

You sure do know a lot about God.


Philosophy of Religion classes will do that for ya.

I know about the concepts of God. It's impossible to know about god, if such a thing exists that is.


Oh, and in Canada we have things called majors and minors. You'd be suprised to learn that philosophy was not my major or my minor.

Nor mine.

[The Answer]

What contradictions? Maybe you mean the "unmoved mover" (i.e., "first cause") contraction. My answer is that- I believe- that God exists outside of human logic (or time, or material space, etc).

A bigger contradiction is the problem of evil. It bases it's conclusion on a few premises. First, god is omnipotent (all-powerful) and omnibenevolent (perfectly good). Secondly, is that an omnibenevolent being is opposed to evil. Third, is that, as a being that that despises evil and has the power to destroy it (based on his omnipotence), evil can't exist. Obviously, evil and suffering do exist, however. This presents a contradicition. One of the premises is false. Either god doesn't exist or is not omnipotent/omnibenevolent, which is contrary to the very definition of god.

[SCY]

What contradictions? Maybe you mean the "unmoved mover" (i.e., "first cause") contraction. My answer is that- I believe- that God exists outside of human logic (or time, or material space, etc).

That's possible, but I just don't believe it. And if God wants to send me to hell for creating me that way, he sucks.

[apriorist]

Why? If god can be infinite, why can't the universe?

So you're saying the blob of mass that existed before the Big Bang was just sitting there for an infinite amount of time and then exploded (for no reason) into everything that exists today? Do you honestly believe that's what happened?

[Doomsday Dallas]

:lol: Good answer, Doomsday. Now if you could just be this rational when it comes to 9/11.

Thank You.

[Randy]

So you're saying the blob of mass that existed before the Big Bang was just sitting there for an infinite amount of time and then exploded (for no reason) into everything that exists today? Do you honestly believe that's what happened?


That is not the theory at all, only a rather bad display of ignorance.

But it is just as valid as saying God has been around for infinity. There is absolutely no difference.

[apriorist]

A bigger contradiction is the problem of evil. It basis it's conclusion on a few premises. First, god is omnipotent (all-powerful) and omnibenevolent (all-loving). Secondly, is that an omnibenevolent being is opposed to evil. Third, is that, as a being that that despises evil and has the power to destroy it(based on his omnipotence), evil can't exist. Obviously, evil and suffering do exist, however. This presents a contradicition. One of the premises is false. Either god doesn't exist or is not omnipotent/omnibenevolent, which is contrary to the very definition of god.

My belief is that whatever God does is good no matter how humans view or judge it. God allowing evil is not evil, he has a greater purpose. Anyway, God can do whatever the hell he wants, so saying that God allowing evil is a contradiction is nonsense.

[apriorist]

That is not the theory at all, only a rather bad display of ignorance.

You say it's ignorance without providing an explanation. Good work, Einstein.



But it is just as valid as saying God has been around for infinity. There is absolutely no difference.

If it's 'just as valid' then you'd say it's 50/50 that God exists?

[Randy]

So for those that believe:

In your view, are we unique? The only planet that deserves life and God's attention?

If so, that's a lot of empty space in a universe filled with billions upon billions of galaxies, each filled with trillions and trillions of stars capable of supporting life just going to waste.

[SCY]

A bigger contradiction is the problem of evil. It basis it's conclusion on a few premises. First, god is omnipotent (all-powerful) and omnibenevolent (all-loving). Secondly, is that an omnibenevolent being is opposed to evil. Third, is that, as a being that that despises evil and has the power to destroy it(based on his omnipotence), evil can't exist. Obviously, evil and suffering do exist, however. This presents a contradicition. One of the premises is false. Either god doesn't exist or is not omnipotent/omnibenevolent, which is contrary to the very definition of god.

Or how about the can God create a stone he can't lift argument, as the inability to either lift the stone or create the stone would be lack in power. Or can God make himself forget something which would be a lack in his either his power or knowledge. There's just no way for perfection to be understood by the human mind.

[Randy]

You say it's ignorance without providing an explanation. Good work, Einstein.


LOL, I'm not going to sit here and type out the Big Bang theory and what was going on at t=10^-35 seconds. That'd take hours.




If it's 'just as valid' then you'd say it's 50/50 that God exists?

No. I don't believe either is 100% correct.

I'm just saying you can't completely discredit one and say that the other is true.

[Borat]

yeah the big bang is less believable to me than a supreme God. It makes sense to me that something all knowing created something with the intricacies of the earth alone, let alone the universe.

big bang seems just too unlikely by my thinking

[apriorist]

LOL, I'm not going to sit here and type out the Big Bang theory and what was going on at t=10^-35 seconds. That'd take hours.

Nice dodge. :D



No. I don't believe either is 100% correct.

Most certainly one is 100% correct.



I'm just saying you can't completely discredit one and say that the other is true.

I said that from the get-go.

[apriorist]

So for those that believe:

In your view, are we unique? The only planet that deserves life and God's attention?

If so, that's a lot of empty space in a universe filled with billions upon billions of galaxies, each filled with trillions and trillions of stars capable of supporting life just going to waste.

To answer this question, I say 'no', I don't think we're the only planet with intelligent life. Too many damn stars out there.

[apriorist]

Or how about the can God create a stone he can't lift argument, as the inability to either lift the stone or create the stone would be lack in power. Or can God make himself forget something which would be a lack in his either his power or knowledge. There's just no way for perfection to be understood by the human mind.

Excellent point. The question is basically "Can God create a paradox?".

[apriorist]

yeah the big bang is less believable to me than a supreme God. It makes sense to me that something all knowing created something with the intricacies of the earth alone, let alone the universe.

big bang seems just too unlikely by my thinking

I'm not saying I don't believe the Big Bang (that name is so funny), I just don't think it happened for no reason.

[The Answer]

My belief is that whatever God does is good no matter how humans view or judge it. God allowing evil is not evil, he has a greater purpose. Anyway, God can do whatever the hell he wants, so saying that God allowing evil is a contradiction is nonsense.

If god is omnipotent/omnibenevolent, why didn't he create us in a place where no "greater purpose" was needed for evil and suffering? Clearly, as an omnipotent being, he has the power to and, as an omnibenevolent being, would desire the easiest path for us.

[Randy]

Nice dodge. :D

Thanks. I totally set myself up for embarrassment there too.


Most certainly one is 100% correct.

I personally believe our Universe was born out of the death and collapse of one previous, sort of like a gigantic black hole. Implosion ---> explosion ---> Our Universe ---> Us.


But then again, how did that Universe get there? Was there one before that?

Great, I think I just fried my brain.

[Jabes]

You say it's ignorance without providing an explanation. Good work, Einstein.

Here's your explanation...

Classical mechanics (http://bcs.wiley.com/he-bcs/Books?action=index&itemId=0471216437&bcsId=2037)

Classical Physics (http://www.amazon.com/Feynman-Lectures-Physics-3-Set/dp/0201021153)

Electrodynamics (http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Electrodynamics-Third-David-Jackson/dp/047130932X)

Special Relativity (http://www.amazon.com/Special-Relativity-M-I-T-Introductory-Physics/dp/0393097935)

Quantum Mechanics (http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Quantum-Mechanics-2nd-Sakurai/dp/0201539292)

Particle Physics (http://www.amazon.com/Particle-Physics-Introduction-Contemporary-Concepts/dp/3718600331)

General Relativity (http://www.amazon.com/General-Relativity-Robert-M-Wald/dp/0226870332/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b)

Cosmology (http://www.amazon.com/Early-Universe-Frontiers-Physics/dp/0201626748)

[bjtrdff]

3 words:

Flying spaghetti monster.


2 more words:

dinosaur bones.

[RainierBeachPoet]

i'm speechless on this whole thread

**pouts a shot of glenlivet**

[apriorist]

If god is omnipotent/omnibenevolent why didn't he create us in a place where no "greater purpose" was needed for evil and suffering. Clearly, as an omnipotent being, he has the power to and, as an omnibenevolent being, would desire the easiest path for us.

Yes, so 'clearly'.

[mlh1981]

Yes, so 'clearly'.

explain why you disagree

His answer seems good, but always like to read different opinions, so fire away.............

[i seen hippos]

explain why you disagree

His answer seems good, but always like to read different opinions, so fire away.............

Assumptions like his are baseless.

It just sounds like a not so well thought out shot at those who believe in God.

[Chalkmaze]

If it's 'just as valid' then you'd say it's 50/50 that God exists?

My math doesn't calculate the same as yours... but.. by accordance of your math... yes.. 50/50 that there are little pink elves in space... and polka dot unicorns hiding in the forest with bigfoot... and hearing hell while standing outside a volcano....

Those are all just as valid as saying there is a god, based on your logic. Science at least has provable theories, laws, observations, and certain understanding in which to base their theories.

[The Answer]

Assumptions like his are baseless.

It just sounds like a not so well thought out shot at those who believe in God.

How is it baseless? God is defined an omnipotent being. As such, he has the power to create humans in a realm free of evil and suffering, correct? Also, he is omnibenevolent. An omnibenevolent being would not desire those it loves infinitely to suffer. Thus, god, having infinite love and power, would not create a world full of suffering and evil. Yet, here we are, in a world full of evil and suffering. A contradiction exists. Either god is not real or he is not omnipotent/omnibenevolent.

[Chalkmaze]

yeah the big bang is less believable to me than a supreme God. It makes sense to me that something all knowing created something with the intricacies of the earth alone, let alone the universe.

big bang seems just too unlikely by my thinking

Rrrriiiigghhttt


And nothing created that god, he just popped out of thin air...

Your god made himself never exist... He's that powerful!

[i seen hippos]

How is it baseless? God is defined an omnipotent being. As such, he has the power to create humans in a realm free of evil and suffering, correct? Also, he is omnibenevolent. An omnibenevolent being would not desire those it loves infinitely to suffer. Thus, god, having infinite love and power, would not create a world full of suffering and evil. Yet, here we are, in a world full of evil and suffering. A contradiction exists. Either god is not real or he is not omnipotent/omnibenevolent.

Or you're just a human and God's "plan" runs cricles around your brain.:confusedshrug:

Sure God may not be omnibenevolent, but to say he can't be because of what happens here on earth is assuming too much for a human to assume.

[steve]

How is it baseless? God is defined an omnipotent being. As such, he has the power to create humans in a realm free of evil and suffering, correct? Also, he is omnibenevolent. An omnibenevolent being would not desire those it loves infinitely to suffer. Thus, god, having infinite love and power, would not create a world full of suffering and evil. Yet, here we are, in a world full of evil and suffering. A contradiction exists. Either god is not real or he is not omnipotent/omnibenevolent.
Well, no, the contradiction only exists because of the way you stated it. If a being is truely omnipotent, then said being is beyond such terms as love/hate and good/evil which are human created terms.

[apriorist]

explain why you disagree

His answer seems good, but always like to read different opinions, so fire away.............

Good point (so I'm hypocrite, whaddya want?). (Actually, since he said 'clearly', he is making an unproved assumption, so really he needs to explain more, but anyway....)

He said basically "clearly God would want the easiest path for us". I say sometimes we have to suffer to learn things. Think of why you would punish a kid to teach him 'right'.

[apriorist]

My math doesn't calculate the same as yours... but.. by accordance of your math... yes.. 50/50 that there are little pink elves in space... and polka dot unicorns hiding in the forest with bigfoot... and hearing hell while standing outside a volcano....

Those are all just as valid as saying there is a god, based on your logic. Science at least has provable theories, laws, observations, and certain understanding in which to base their theories.

You didn't think this out (as usual). He accepted an unproved (and unprovable) 'theory'. Since he said that his- already accepted- theory is "as least as valid", then, by his own logic, there is a 50/50 chance between either of those things being true.

[mlh1981]

I'm not an expert on the subject and won't pretend to be one here on ISH, but my feeling is..............

a totally atheistic approach isn't healthy, nor is the idea that one's life should TOTALLY and COMPLETELY revolve around their God. Something in the middle just seems like the best idea. To NOT believe in ANY sort of higher being is absurd, but I'm not sure I care for those who live their ENTIRE LIVES based around this "GOD."

[apriorist]

Well, no, the contradiction only exists because of the way you stated it. If a being is truely omnipotent, then said being is beyond such terms as love/hate and good/evil which are human created terms.

Well spoken. Good and evil are relative terms to humans. We can't take our parameters for good and evil and apply them to God.

[Chalkmaze]

You didn't think this out (as usual). He accepted an unproved (and unprovable) 'theory'. Since he said that his- already accepted- theory is "as least as valid", then, by his own logic, there is a 50/50 chance between either of those things being true.

You were the one doing the explaining for him, you were making sense of his commentary... so yeah.. I did think it out (as usual) And you neglected all the rest that I said on top of that... Basically your post was a waste of screen space.

[Hawker]

Does anyone here actually follow a religion or just considers them a christian and believes in God and the bible but doesnt go to church?

Anyways, I wouldnt really consider myself an atheist but I leave the option of a God out there. But right now, I dont see the point of having the belief of a God in my life. I believe I dont need him b/c I am strong enough to believe in myself and do things on my own.

But apriorist, you say God is attaining something good but allowing evil things to happen. Well, dont you think he has allowed evil long enough in Africa? What the hell is he trying to achieve?

How much longer must the disasters in Africa go on before something "good" is achieved?

[i seen hippos]

Does anyone here actually follow a religion or just considers them a christian and believes in God and the bible but doesnt go to church?

Anyways, I wouldnt really consider myself an atheist but I leave the option of a God out there. But right now, I dont see the point of having the belief of a God in my life. I believe I dont need him b/c I am strong enough to believe in myself and do things on my own.

But apriorist, you say God is attaining something good but allowing evil things to happen. Well, dont you think he has allowed evil long enough in Africa? What the hell is he trying to achieve?

How much longer must the disasters in Africa go on before something "good" is achieved?

I'll point out that you shouldn't only believe in a God if you're not strong.:lol:

I'm not religous or spiritual, but I do believe their is some god-like being(s).

I simply have the personality where I'm not scared into doing good deeds because of that belief. I think that is why I can accept there being a God without questioning why he lets bad things happen...I just don't care. I feel God existing is simply a fact and that's where it begins and ends.

[Quickness]

I believe in god. although mostly because I fear if I don't ill go to hell. Im a nice guy and just don't think about religion alot. ive thought before maybe im agnostic but fear that if there is a god he would punish me makes me believe there is.

[Take Your Lumps]

I believe in god. although mostly because I fear if I don't ill go to hell. Im a nice guy and just don't think about religion alot. ive thought before maybe im agnostic but fear that if there is a god he would punish me makes me believe there is.

Assuming the afterlife is exactly what they preach....imagine two people walk up to God.

One was an atheist who tried his hardest to believe in God but said, "sorry dude, you just didn't give me enough evidence....i really tried."

The other was a guy who sort-of-kind-of believed out of convenience and fear of being punished.

Who gets in?

[Doomsday Dallas]

Assuming the afterlife is exactly what they preach....imagine two people walk up to God.

One was an atheist who tried his hardest to believe in God but said, "sorry dude, you just didn't give me enough evidence....i really tried."

The other was a guy who sort-of-kind-of believed out of convenience and fear of being punished.

Who gets in?

Well the Bible says only your faith can save you and not your works.

But I think the main issue at hand is choice.

[Take Your Lumps]

Well the Bible says only your faith can save you and not your works.

But I think the main issue at hand is choice.

But is all faith created equal?

[Doomsday Dallas]

But is all faith created equal?

According to the Bible... each man is given a certain amount of faith.

So I'd say no... Because what if I only had faith in the world,... or
in man kind... or in money... or in a false prophet like David Koresh (spelling?).... or in the devil.... or in your own sins.

If you don't believe in God there is no sin...

But some F*cks will tell you that Sin was killed by Jesus...

Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvElky4Qwe4
666 This preacher says he's Jesus. Now he's the Antichrist

Now you tell me is this a smart way of making money... Or pure Sin?



I think we should try to repent for our sins... My opinion.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Common sense, your own body is proof of a God.

[Randy]

And if we do not believe in th concept of sin?

I was not born evil and I was not born with orignal sin that I must confess. Why must I repent for something that was supposedly given to me against my will?


Sin pretty much says that god made us evil, then he will punish us for being such. Where's the logic there?


.....:ohwell:

[Doomsday Dallas]

And if we do not believe in th concept of sin?

I was not born evil and I was not born with orignal sin that I must confess. Why must I repent for something that was supposedly given to me against my will?


Sin pretty much says that god made us evil, then he will punish us for being such. Where's the logic there?


.....:ohwell:

Jesus died for our sins is the logic...

God created us to choose if want the evil ways of this world... or
Do we want God and his Holy ways... Forgiveness is what we
must learn... and if we went by an EYE for an EYE system we'd all
be blind (where did I here this?).

What in the HELL do you want when HEAVEN is all you need?

[Randy]

Meh....this is the only life that I am guaranteed so I will continue to live it as fully and as well as I can.

I am a good person who does kind things when I can. If there is some sort of afterlife where we can meet our creator, I'm sure of all the beings in our Universe, God would most understand my life and my personal, cherished, beliefs.

[i seen hippos]

Meh....this is the only life that I am guaranteed so I will continue to live it as fully and as well as I can.

I am a good person who does kind things when I can. If there is some sort of afterlife where we can meet our creator, I'm sure of all the beings in our Universe, God would most understand my life and my personal, cherished, beliefs.

You're going to hell, just admit it.:roll:

[ElPigto]

Superboy, one more thing, you are a Christian hypocrite.

You really need to stop telling people how to live their lives and instead be happy with the help you can provide to others in this world. Christian Hypocrites are one of the many reasons people choose to go away from Christianity.

Sorry, you just needed to be told again.

[raid09]

So you're saying the blob of mass that existed before the Big Bang was just sitting there for an infinite amount of time and then exploded (for no reason) into everything that exists today? Do you honestly believe that's what happened?

Exactly. Just completely illogical.

[SuperboyXX0018]

There is so much evidence that proves Christianity to be true. You can search the internet and find amazing NDE sotries, Angel encounters, and so much more.

[ElPigto]

There is so much evidence that proves Christianity to be true. You can search the internet and find amazing NDE sotries, Angel encounters, and so much more.

How about providing evidence that you are a true Christian and not just a hypocrite, like much of the Christian church?

[SuperboyXX0018]

How about providing evidence that you are a true Christian and not just a hypocrite, like much of the Christian church?


I'm not a Christian.

[ElPigto]

I'm not a Christian.

Then what are you?

[SuperboyXX0018]

Then what are you?


A Rebel Loner.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Assuming the afterlife is exactly what they preach....imagine two people walk up to God.

One was an atheist who tried his hardest to believe in God but said, "sorry dude, you just didn't give me enough evidence....i really tried."

The other was a guy who sort-of-kind-of believed out of convenience and fear of being punished.

Who gets in?


Neither.

[JPR]

it's difficult to say but unless you have an experience to make you believe, you'll always be a doubter. i was fortunate enough to reach the plane of the Gods at a young age and have learned that the best way to find out about what humans call God(s), i refer to as true royalty, is through knowledge. open a book. take a hit off of that. that's the best way to opening your mind. and once you open your mind, you're finally on the path to finding God(s). on a side note, to communicate with God, on his level, you have to be out of your mind which is not as bad as a thing as our society will have you believe. you have to be out of body as well...

[Randy]

Neither.

That's not up to you sweetie, it's up to God. Who are you? God? What makes you think you can judge people?

And actually, for claiming yourelf as God by attempting to pass eternal judgement on others, you have actually condemned yourself to HELL for committing such a sin as creating a false God within yourslef. Straight to hell with you and there's nothing you can say back to redeem yourself because you just broke a commandment!! HA HA!

[SuperboyXX0018]

That's not up to you sweetie, it's up to God. Who are you? God? What makes you think you can judge people?

And actually, for claiming yourelf as God by attempting to pass eternal judgement on others, you have actually condemned yourself to HELL for committing such a sin as creating false Gods. HA HA!


Read the Bible, you don't go to Heaven for your deeds or for being a "good" person(no one is "good"), you go to Heaven by being fully submissive to God and becoming like a child. [B]

[JPR]

if you go by the bible, God forgave a murderer on the cross next to him. if you truly are sorry for your sins, God will forgive you. that's in reference to the most relatable religion in western society. there are many more roads to spiritual bliss, i just chose that one because i bet most of ISH's posters are familar with Christianity opposed to say...Confucianism.

[ElPigto]

[QUOTE=SuperboyXX0018]Read the Bible, you don't go to Heaven for your deeds or for being a "good" person(no one is "good"), you go to Heaven by being fully submissive to God and becoming like a child. [B]

[JPR]

Read the Bible, you don't go to Heaven for your deeds or for being a "good" person(no one is "good"), you go to Heaven by being fully submissive to God and becoming like a child. “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3-4, NIV).

thank you for that quote. when i was on the plane of the Gods, i literally felt scolded like a child sent to the corner of a room. it was an undistinguishable experience that i will never forget. i'm glad that i am on the path to heaven.

[SuperboyXX0018]

What about people who aren't fortunate enough to hear about God's gospel? Will they just be sent to hell, even though it wasn't there fault that they didn't hear about God's word?


Now that I don't know.:lol:

[Randy]

Read the Bible, you don't go to Heaven for your deeds or for being a "good" person(no one is "good"), you go to Heaven by being fully submissive to God and becoming like a child. “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3-4, NIV).


You sinned against God directly by claiming yourself as him. Sorry, Bucko, but you're going to hell for that. It's the FIRST COMMANDMENT for a reason and you broke it.


Big mistake.

[Chalkmaze]

Then what are you? [Superboy]

He's a Super Retard!

[SuperboyXX0018]

You sinned against God directly by claiming yourself as him. Sorry, Bucko, but you're going to hell for that. It's the FIRST COMMANDMENT for a reason and you broke it.


Big mistake.

:rolleyes:

[JPR]

what's with the personal insults? one thing superboy does well is start popular threads.

[El Kabong]

God talks to me in my sleep. He tells me all the winners of the horse races, but then tells me I can't bet on them. He says its a test of my faith, and if I bet on a winning horse then i'll go to hell.

God sounds like Bobcat Goldthwait in case you were wondering.

[Randy]

:rolleyes:

Can't admit when you're wrong, huh?

Face it, you sinned. Typical of you though, insulting others while actually breaking the biggest commandment of all.

You will go to hell for insulting God like that. And if you can't see that you've sinned, then you must really be blind. Maybe you should go read the Bible and see what it says about what you did.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Can't admit when you're wrong, huh?

Face it, you sinned. Typical of you though, insulting others while actually breaking the biggest commandment of all.

You will go to hell for insulting God like that. And if you can't see that you've sinned, then you must really be blind. Maybe you should go read the Bible and see what it says about what you did.


How? When I gave scripture proof?

[raid09]

Superboy, have you ever spoken to Him?

[SuperboyXX0018]

Superboy, have you ever spoken to Him?


No, but he had me moved in my bed once(for personal reasons that I will not share:( ), and I have seen a Fallen Angel face to face.

[raid09]

No, but he had me moved in my bed once(for personal reasons that I will not share:( ), and I have seen a Fallen Angel face to face.

He has spoken to me before. His voice is so overpowering, I almost couldn't handle it.

You have to be patient with these nonbelievers. There is a reason God has not revealed Himself to them. He will decide when/if they should be enlightened, not you. There is a higher purpose.

[SuperboyXX0018]

He has spoken to me before. His voice is so overpowering, I almost couldn't handle it.

You have to be patient with these nonbelievers. There is a reason God has not revealed Himself to them. He will decide when/if they should be enlightened, not you. There is a higher purpose.


I know I have to stop. And what did he tell you and why?

[raid09]

I know I have to stop. And what did he tell you and why?

I don't feel I should tell you the specifics, as that's between me and Him. It had to do with my brother's death and the higher purpose behind it. He brought me out of a downward spiral.

These Atheists are sickening, but it is not up to us to decide whether or not they are to be saved.

The Big Bang? Come on. What a load of crap. :rolleyes:

[SuperboyXX0018]

I don't feel I should tell you the specifics, as that's between me and Him. It had to do with my brother's death and the higher purpose behind it. He brought me out of a downward spiral.

These Atheists are sickening, but it is not up to us to decide whether or not they are to be saved.

The Big Bang? Come on. What a load of crap. :rolleyes:



They watch too much TV and only care for their own pleasures.

[raid09]

They watch too much TV and only care for their own pleasures.

Exactly. But, that it is what God has planned for them. He does not wish to enlighten them [yet], so he surrounds them with hedonistic things, and they use excuses like "dinosaurs," or "evolution" to defend their own selfishness. He lets them wallow in their own pleasure, but it is us that will achieve true happiness. I use to be like that, until He saved me. In hindsight, I was pitiful, just as the Atheists are.

However, God in his benevolence, is able to understand human weakness and forgiveness in a way that we aren't. They can, and some will be saved as well, as soon as they discard their nonbelieving nonsense, and as long as they are truly repenting.

[SuperboyXX0018]

. He lets them wallow in their own pleasure, but it is us that will achieve true happiness. I use to be like that, until He saved me. In hindsight, I was pitiful, just as the Atheists are.

Not a Christian, but I do believe in the Bible fully.

[raid09]

Not a Christian, but I do believe in the Bible fully.

I am a Christian in that I practice Christianity, but I acknowledge that it has many contradictions. I meant 'us' as in enlightened ones.

The Bible is the word of God; I believe it fully as well.

[SuperboyXX0018]

I am a Christian in that I practice Christianity, but I acknowledge that Christianity has many contradictions. I meant 'us' as in enlightened ones.


Oh okay. I'm glad to say that atleast I'm on that side.

[raid09]

Oh okay. I'm glad to say that atleast I'm on that side.

Hopefully the whole world will be one day too, if that's God's plan.

I hope these Atheists come with more "arguments." I like to think He encourages the discussion and demonstration of faith.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Hopefully the whole world will be one day too, if that's God's plan.

I hope these Atheists come with more "arguments." I like to think He encourages the discussion and demonstration of faith.


It won't happen. There is no hope for the world.

[raid09]

It won't happen. There is no hope for the world.

It doesn't look very good, but we can never assume we know God's plan for humanity. I would guess that you are correct, but God's workings are beyond my, or anyone's comprehension.

[SuperboyXX0018]

It doesn't look very good, but we can never assume we know God's plan for humanity. I would guess that you are correct, but God's workings are beyond my, or anyone's comprehension.


Did you read Revelations?

[raid09]

Did you read Revelations?

It is actually "Revelation," as it all adds up to a whole. I have, and I believe that the Bible is the word of God written in a way that humans can comprehend it.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Spiritual encounters are very real, but unforunately the arrogance of nonbelievers is boundless.

[raid09]

Spiritual encounters are very real, but unforunately the arrogance of nonbelievers is boundless.

Exactly. Nonbelievers doom humanity. It is very sad to see.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Exactly. Nonbelievers doom humanity. It is very sad to see.


Is having sex for pleasure and going to parties and doing all of the things that pleasure them (for this short life) worth going to hell for eternity? I don't think so....

[catzhernandez]

i wish this thread would die and go to hell... how bout that:banghead:

[apriorist]

Does anyone here actually follow a religion or just considers them a christian and believes in God and the bible but doesnt go to church?

Anyways, I wouldnt really consider myself an atheist but I leave the option of a God out there. But right now, I dont see the point of having the belief of a God in my life. I believe I dont need him b/c I am strong enough to believe in myself and do things on my own.

But apriorist, you say God is attaining something good but allowing evil things to happen. Well, dont you think he has allowed evil long enough in Africa? What the hell is he trying to achieve?

How much longer must the disasters in Africa go on before something "good" is achieved?

If I knew that, I'd be God.

[loot]

God, created in the Image of man.

[Randy]

God, created in the Image of man.

http://www.msu.edu/user/socomm/bullseye.gif







:bowdown: :bowdown: Big Bang and evolution

[apriorist]

God, created in the Image of man.

Wow, dude. That's sooooooooooooo profound. :bowdown:

[mlh1981]

watch The Simpsons episode where Homer meets God and you'll find out all you need to know about what God is REALLY like.......

he has 5 fingers on each hand. Can you believe that :eek:

[Chalkmaze]

No, but he had me moved in my bed once(for personal reasons that I will not share:( ),

That's called a wet dream or master-bation, superboy.

[steve]

watch The Simpsons episode where Homer meets God and you'll find out all you need to know about what God is REALLY like.......

he has 5 fingers on each hand. Can you believe that :eek:
He also hasn't followed the NFL since the mid 80s.

[bk33]

So all the complexity of the universe is not enough?
how is that directly related?

it's like saying "oh, since we can't explain everything in the universe, let's make up a character that has all the power, that way we can just relate anything we're unable to explain to him."

[Take Your Lumps]

Can someone please name 5 absolutely positive things any of the Abrahamic religions have done for society?

I mean tangible things that are undisputably positive and good for the planet as a whole.....you know, like science.

No? How about just 1?

[The Answer]

Common sense.

Again, why don't you enlighten us with this common sense? As obvious as it is to you, it should be very simple to write out a long, well thought out post on the subject.


I know I have to stop.

I don't get that. At all. From what you've stated thus far, it is clear to me that you believe the nonbelievers go to Hell, correct? Have you ever thought about Hell? It is a place of eternal fire. A place of immense suffering, where every second is virtually worse than the last. Forever. Yet, here you are talking about giving up. If I truly believed the stakes were that high I'd be doing everything, and I mean everything, in my power to save people. I wouldn't have a job, a home, or any hobbies. Every second of every day of my life would be devoted to serving god. Literally, I would run the streets, from person to person, begging people to accept the one true god. After all, according to your beliefs, this world is finite, and has no meaning outside of god, right?

If you were on a boat and people all around you were drowning, would you not try to save them? Would you not do everything in your power to bring every living person aboard your vessel? Would not wait until every possible person you could save was saved before heading back to shore? Certainly you wouldn't give up, would you? Like any decent person, I'm sure you wouldn't. Yet, why are you so willing to give up when the stakes are infinitely higher than drowning?


So you're saying the blob of mass that existed before the Big Bang was just sitting there for an infinite amount of time and then exploded (for no reason) into everything that exists today? Do you honestly believe that's what happened?

This does not at all answer my question, so I will restate it. If god can be infinite, why can't the universe? Either way, the same basic concept must be accepted.

[The Answer]

Yes, so 'clearly'.

Yes, I think it is fairly clear. God, being omnipotent, has infinite power. Thus, he has the power to create us in a realm where no "greater purpose" is needed to justify evil and suffering. Furthermore, as an omnibenevolent being, he has infinite love for all his "subjects," correct? With those traits in mind, would it not be illogical for him to create us in a world full of suffering? God, being omnipotent, has the power to elminate evil and, being omnibenevlonent, has the desire to do so. Why, then, does evil exist?

[apriorist]

Yes, I think it is fairly clear. God, being omnipotent, has infinite power. Thus, he has the power to create us in a realm where no "greater purpose" is needed to justify evil and suffering. Furthermore, as an omnibenevolent being, he has infinite love for all his "subjects," correct? With those traits in mind, would it not be illogical for him to create us in a world full of suffering? God, being omnipotent, has the power to elminate evil and, being omnibenevlonent, has the desire to do so. Why, then, does evil exist?

I already answered this.

[i seen hippos]

Can someone please name 5 absolutely positive things any of the Abrahamic religions have done for society?

I mean tangible things that are undisputably positive and good for the planet as a whole.....you know, like science.

No? How about just 1?

Raised a lot of money for charity.

You told me to stop at 1, right?

[The Answer]

your own body is proof of a God.

Let's say, hypothetically speaking of course, this actually made sense. How, then, do you know it is proof of the god of the bible and not one of the countless other deities worshipped by man throughout history? What makes you so sure it's not proof of Ra, the Egyptian god of the sun? After all, he's a pretty cool god too. Every night, the ancient Egyptians believed, Ra descended into the underworld(hence the sun going down). While there, he battled monsters, demons, and other unimaginable terrors. That was his celestial duty. Every morning, however, he arised victoriously and brought light to his people. Or how about Vishnu, the Hindu god responsible for the preservation of the world? Whenever sin becomes to great and evil runs rampant across the world, Vishnu incarnates onto the earth in order to restore dharma. Krishna and Rama are his most famous avatars.

What makes your god so special? Both of my examples sound more worthy of worship than a tyrannical god, who collectively punished all humananity for the sins committed by Adam and Eve and who exterminated nearly all earth's people in a flood.

[The Answer]

I already answered this.

No, you responded with a "How can anyone believe nonsense like the Big Bang theory?" type of answer. Again, if god can be infinite, why can't the universe?

[apriorist]

No, you responded with a "How can anyone believe nonsense like the Big Bang theory?" type of answer. Again, if god can be infinite, why can't the universe?

The question you repeated about evil, I already answered. As to "if God can be infinite, why can't the universe?". We'll the universe can be infinite, I suppose, but it seems like you'd have to contradict the laws of science to accept that. Would that explanation work in any other area of science? If someone asked how something existed (say, a drop of water), would a scientifically-valid answer be "It just is"? No. The universe is bound by the laws of science, God is not.

Incidentally, according to the theory of relativity, there really was no time before the Big Bang since time didn't exist (I think that's true- according to the theory), but that avoids the main point that something existed for no reason.

[The Answer]

Jesus died for our sins is the logic...

God created us to choose if want the evil ways of this world... or
Do we want God and his Holy ways...

The "choice," I presume, is whether or not Christ is the savior, correct? If god is real, the universe must be fair. Like many of my other points, I base this on his omnipotence/omnibenevolence. As an omnipotent entity, god's power is unlimited, and as an omnibenevolent being he has infinite, and equal, love for all humans. Thus, god, as an omnibenevolent being, would desire all humans have the same opportunity to spend eternity with him (because he loves them all the same), and, as an omnipotent being, has the power to make it so.

The problem, however, is that this choice is not fair. See, not all people have the same opportunity to accept Christ. People raised in Christian households, for instance, have a distinct advantage over those raised in non-Christian households. A greater disparity exists in countries where Christianity is virtually nonexistant. Are the people in the deep jungles of the Amazon doomed for all eternity due to them being born a few hundred miles outside "civilized" Catholic Brazil? Because the system described by Christianity is not fair, and logically a god who is omnipotent/omnibenevolent would make a fair system, I cannot accept it.

[Smokee]

i think its silly for an omnipotent being to worry about us and supposedly love us so much like we are the center of the universe to him. The universe is vast, its almost neverending, there is life out there in probably many different places that we'll never reach/confirm, who have never read the 'Bible' and according to the religious will be condemned.

Its almost as tho religious people paint the picture that God is so kind and forgiving and cares so much, and yet he allows so much evil in the world, alot of it based on religion. Was he proud of the Crusades?

Science does not coexist with Religion, dont let any religious zealot tell you that. Its why 'Creationism' is being forced into schools, to counter science courses that contradict religion. Thank God most school systems have enough sense not to let the religious right start faerie tale'ing up education.

I'm not saying there isnt a greater power out there, there very well possibly could be...but no way the Bible speaks for him or represents him. ITs simply a faerie tale written by people, which each religion is more or less based on...the sermons of people trying to preach morality in their own context, not God.

[miller-time]

The problem, however, is that this choice is not fair. See, not all people have the same opportunity to accept Christ. People raised in Christian households, for instance, have a distinct advantage over those raised in non-Christian households. A greater disparity exists in countries where Christianity is virtually nonexistant. Are the people in the deep jungles of the Amazon doomed for all eternity due to them being born a few hundred miles outside "civilized" Catholic Brazil? Because the system described by Christianity is not fair, and logically a god who is omnipotent/omnibenevolent would make a fair system, I cannot accept it.

i asked a christian about this once and he said that, that is why they spread the word of jesus. people who haven't heard of him are judged by the content of their lives. but once you hear of him (properly i assume) then its up to you. which to me makes it sound like "your ****ed if you hear of jesus" lol. why not let them live their lives in peace without the christian headache?

anyway im sick of religious people citing the complexity of the universe or how our anatomy is irreducibly complex as proof of god. they are only complex to our 21st century mind and technical ability. its not up to athiests to prove there isn't a god. its up to religious people to prove their is. if you have a hypothesis you have to back it up with good science as opposed to "the universe is to complex" or "i have faith" arguements.

[i seen hippos]

So you're one of these guys:

http://photo.net/photo/pcd0155/gay-parade-20.4.jpg

"You silly Christians. I'm going to parade my ***** around your city all day and you can't do anything about it cause God doesn't exist."

http://www.designbyclouds.com/31_01/gay.jpg

"You go girl...mmmm."

[Chalkmaze]

K that was ummm GAY.... and had nothing to do with anything in this thread. Guess you've run out of things to contribute to the conversation... which is fine.. because Superboy only had one motive when he started it... and that was for him to be one sided and preach.

[boozehound]

very nice defense of your beliefs hippos.

go back to gambling......


wow, maybe you are one of those guys

[i seen hippos]

very nice defense of your beliefs hippos.

go back to gambling......


wow, maybe you are one of those guys

I'm not religious.

When I think of people who are hypocrits and constantly let it be known how awful religion, I think of gay, snobbish, Starbucks drinking *****.

I can't stand hill billy throw a bible in your face Pat Robertson types equally.

Basically, I can't stand anyone who can't see that they're doing exactly what they get angry at the other side for doing. Of course people against religion will say "They started it"....but like your mom told when you were a kid, two wrongs don't make a right.:no:

[miller-time]

I'm not religious.

When I think of people who hypocrits who constantly let it be known how awful religion, I think of gay, snobbish, Starbucks drinking *****.

I can't stand hill billy throw a bible in your face Pat Robertson types equally.

Basically, I can't stand anyone who can't see that they're doing exactly what they get angry at the other side for doing. Of course people against religion will say "They started it"....but like your mom told when you were a kid, two wrongs don't make a right.:no:

you can see it like that, or you can see it like every other debate about politics or philosophy. why is religion untouchable for debate?

im all for everyone believing what they want. what im not for is for those views in to impact on anyone but themselves.

[The Answer]

The question you repeated about evil, I already answered.


Sorry, when I saw your "I've already answered this" response I assumed you were answering the question I posed to you in post 198.



As to "if God can be infinite, why can't the universe?". We'll the universe can be infinite, I suppose, but it seems like you'd have to contradict the laws of science to accept that. Would that explanation work in any other area of science? If someone asked how something existed (say, a drop of water), would a scientifically-valid answer be "It just is"? No. The universe is bound by the laws of science, God is not.

Incidentally, according to the theory of relativity, there really was no time before the Big Bang since time didn't exist (I think that's true- according to the theory), but that avoids the main point that something existed for no reason.

Science does not yet fully understand the origins of the universe. As one who is not particularly well versed in the Big Bang Theory and other related subjects, I do not feel comfortable in breaking it all down for you, but I do believe time existed before the big bang. Perhaps another, who is more capable, will be willing to step in and offer a better, more satisfying rebuttal.

[The Answer]

Who was that post intended for, i seen hippos?

[i seen hippos]

Who was that post intended for, i seen hippos?

Chalkmaze and Boozehound were the only ones to respond to my previous post so them.

[i seen hippos]

you can see it like that, or you can see it like every other debate about politics or philosophy. why is religion untouchable for debate?

im all for everyone believing what they want. what im not for is for those views in to impact on anyone but themselves.

Let's first establish that it's impossible to not be impacted by other peoples' views.

Religion isn't untouchable. It's just that people go about denouncing religion in a way very similar to how they accuse religious people of going about promoting it.

[dnyk1337]

Please man... Religion is the base for so much war in our history that it's not even funny. Roman Empire... They basically believed everyone was a barbarian and that they had to conquer them and "share" their religion and views with them. They needed to be conquered and led towards salvation.

Even the war for the holy land. Everyone seriously believed that THEIR religion had the right to own the land for some retarded reason. Under what pretenses does a person believe this? How is it possible? You must truly be retarded or blinded by the fake light from your story book.

[gb8]

Please man... Religion is the base for so much war in our history that it's not even funny. Roman Empire... They basically believed everyone was a barbarian and that they had to conquer them and "share" their religion and views with them. They needed to be conquered and led towards salvation.

Even the war for the holy land. Everyone seriously believed that THEIR religion had the right to own the land for some retarded reason. Under what pretenses does a person believe this? How is it possible? You must truly be retarded or blinded by the fake light from your story book.

While I wholeheartedly and vocally support your sentiment in regards to the grand scale misery religion has caused in the context of the Geo political affairs as well as obviously personal misery by the abuse of power by individuals within religious institutions I think it would be naive to discount religion or spirituality as a completely negative force.

People beliefs and faith( as misplaced as I may deem it to be) does comfort and help them cope with the many traumas we all go through. For instance I recently had distant relative pass away abruptly and at a fairly young age 40 years old. He had just been promoted and had started working for deutsche bank after previously working for merrill lynch. Anyway, at the funeral I found it pretty staggering the amount of hope the widow was garnering from her beliefs. Like it was actually fuelling her and helping her cope and move forward.

Similarly seeing the single mother whose only son at 10 years old is diagnosed with cancer and has to go through chemotherapy and what not is able to keep her sanity and keep hope and functions through her beliefs. If her beliefs somehow allow her to feel in control even for a minute of the day when she is praying for her son getting better is that not feeling she gets that minute good?
I THINK its all too easy to say oh religion bad non religion GOOD. There is plenty of grey in this world and these grey areas become more and more apparent through age and experiences. The human experience is not just experienced through the rationale but for better or worse we have the need for betterment and comfort both physical emotional and mental. One should not demonize something that clearly gives comfort, hope and meaning to billions, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Black, White, Brown, Yellow and everything in between included.

I may not have articulated these very well as am a bit hung over so pardon me for the slightly disjointed thought process.

[Take Your Lumps]

While I wholeheartedly and vocally support your sentiment in regards to the grand scale misery religion has caused in the context of the Geo political affairs as well as obviously personal misery by the abuse of power by individuals within religious institutions I think it would be naive to discount religion or spirituality as a completely negative force.

People beliefs and faith( as misplaced as I may deem it to be) does comfort and help them cope with the many traumas we all go through. For instance I recently had distant relative pass away abruptly and at a fairly young age 40 years old. He had just been promoted and had started working for deutsche bank after previously working for merrill lynch. Anyway, at the funeral I found it pretty staggering the amount of hope the widow was garnering from her beliefs. Like it was actually fuelling her and helping her cope and move forward.

Similarly seeing the single mother whose only son at 10 years old is diagnosed with cancer and has to go through chemotherapy and what not is able to keep her sanity and keep hope and functions through her beliefs. If her beliefs somehow allow her to feel in control even for a minute of the day when she is praying for her son getting better is that not feeling she gets that minute good?
I THINK its all too easy to say oh religion bad non religion GOOD. There is plenty of grey in this world and these grey areas become more and more apparent through age and experiences. The human experience is not just experienced through the rationale but for better or worse we have the need for betterment and comfort both physical emotional and mental. One should not demonize something that clearly gives comfort, hope and meaning to billions, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Black, White, Brown, Yellow and everything in between included.

I may not have articulated these very well as am a bit hung over so pardon me for the slightly disjointed thought process.

I don't think anyone can discount the potential positive nature of religion in a PERSONAL sense. I have family members who swear by the bible and are great people.

The problem with Christianity and Islam is that it's pretty much required of them to go out and recruit or "save" as many as possible and then it gets perverted through politics, etc...

Out of the three Abramahic religions, I have the most respect for Judaism. At least they don't come knocking on my door on the weekends, go around blabbering nonsense along downtown streets, or fly planes into buildings to prove a point.

Judaism works for them and they keep it to themselves (in America anyway.) :D

[Doomsday Dallas]

The problem with Christianity and Islam is that it's pretty much required of them to go out and recruit or "save" as many as possible and then it gets perverted through politics, etc...

If a person is a Christian in America...

The best way for someone to recruit another is to live as an example. You can't be constantly sinning (smoking, drinking, screwing, use foul language, etc... etc...) but instead show the community that you
are repenting for your sins. This is why I feel like it's pointless for me to witness what God has done for me, because I have not yet lived the way a Christian should.

It would be hypocritical if I told people to turn to Jesus... yet I'm still getting drunk.

So right now... I'm just trying to seek God, and build my relationship with him.

Politics have destoyed both religions,... So I feel the best way to go to church is to have some good Christian friends in your life that can help remind you that God loves you from time to time. Otherwise you to caught up in the world and live for the flesh. I need to put more effort into living for the spirit.



But religion aside... The way we should all live is what I like to call the "Groundhog day" law.

If you have seen the movie Groundhog Day,... understand he went through so many days trying to make himself happy.... He could never get the day right. Once he started making others happy... He was able to move on to the next day.... make any sense?

I just woke up, So I might not be thinking very clearly.

[Take Your Lumps]

I hear you clear as day, Doomsday. Well said.

[Doomsday Dallas]

I hear you clear as day, Doomsday. Well said.

Thanks... but I got something even better!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YzsmODLECU&feature=related (1:35)

EVERYBODY WATCH THIS!!!

[i seen hippos]

Please man... Religion is the base for so much war in our history that it's not even funny. Roman Empire... They basically believed everyone was a barbarian and that they had to conquer them and "share" their religion and views with them. They needed to be conquered and led towards salvation.

Even the war for the holy land. Everyone seriously believed that THEIR religion had the right to own the land for some retarded reason. Under what pretenses does a person believe this? How is it possible? You must truly be retarded or blinded by the fake light from your story book.

I said I wasn't religious...so I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't taking about the Bible.:)

[MadeFromDust]

I live my life the way i know I'm supposed to live my life, by helping others when they need it and doing what i can to make the world a better place. No I don't do it because i'll be rewarded with a better afterlife, i do it because it's the right thing to do. If that makes me evil in your eyes then i guess I'm evil and going to hell, but in my opinion I'm a much better person for doing good for the benefit of others as opposed you doing good for your own eternal benefit.I am in need of $10,000 dolla billz yo! If you don't send it to me you are a liar and an evil person because you already broke yur own damned rule that yur gonna do whatever's right. Oh, en yur headed str8 fur hell unless u repent

[CMANsonDaRipper]

Continue discussion

[BTrujillo]

1. I'm not atheist

2. It's not that i DONT believe in God, it's that i don't CARE if God exists or not. I live my life the way i know I'm supposed to live my life, by helping others when they need it and doing what i can to make the world a better place. No I don't do it because i'll be rewarded with a better afterlife, i do it because it's the right thing to do. If that makes me evil in your eyes then i guess I'm evil and going to hell, but in my opinion I'm a much better person for doing good for the benefit of others as opposed you doing good for your own eternal benefit. I don't need God's motivation to be good.

But yeah you're weird...
:cheers:

[ReggieCurry]

You don't believe in God because you've been corrupted.

[BTrujillo]

You don't believe in God because you've been corrupted.

to each their own... I would be more inclined to say you believe in God because you have been corrupted...burden of proof is on you...and there is none... but i guess adults need imaginary things to believe in also

[~primetime~]

to each their own... I would be more inclined to say you believe in God because you have been corrupted...burden of proof is on you...and there is none... but i guess adults need imaginary things to believe in also
what happens to you when you flat-line in a hospital and live:

Near Death Experiences

Characteristics

The content of near death experiences may vary by culture [12]. Children, who typically do not have enough time to develop strongly towards one faith, had very limited NDEs. Examples of this include a boy simply having talked to his brother in his NDE and a daughter having a conversation with her mother.[13][14] The phenomenology of an NDE usually includes physiological, psychological and alleged transcendental aspects.[15] Typically, the experience follows a distinct progression:[10][16][17]

1. A very unpleasant sound/noise is the first sensory impression to be noticed (R. Moody: Life after Life);
2. A sense of being dead;
3. Pleasant emotions; calmness and serenity;
4. An out-of-body experience; a sensation of floating above one's own body and seeing the surrounding area;
5. Floating up a blue tunnel with a strong, bright light or garden at the end;
6. Meeting deceased relatives or spiritual figures;
7. Encountering a being of light, or a light (often interpreted as being the deity or deities they personally believe in);
8. Being given a life review (the "life-flashing-before-your-eyes" phenomenon);
9. Reaching a border or boundary;
10. A feeling of being returned to the body, often accompanied by a reluctance.
11. Feeling of warmth even though naked.



____________________

it isn't proof, but it is legit evidence, and with the thousands of people that have stories like this it would enough eye witness testomony for a Judge to rule that a higher power does exist...

[ReggieCurry]

to each their own... I would be more inclined to say you believe in God because you have been corrupted...burden of proof is on you...and there is none... but i guess adults need imaginary things to believe in also


I know for a FACT that God exists due to the supernatural experiences I've had. Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant, you will find out the truth when you die, but hopefully you find it out before you do, for your sake......

[PistolPete]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqeC3BPYTmE

[BTrujillo]

it isn't proof, but it is legit evidence, and with the thousands of people that have stories like this it would enough eye witness testomony for a Judge to rule that a higher power does exist...

Sounds like a perfect way to say God exists without having to actually prove it with legit evidence... how do you argue with that? so then I assume you believe in aliens also... and that a "judge" would have to rule that they exist? Do encounters with aliens also count as supernatural encounters?

But whatever... if your belief in God makes you a better person... than more power to you... just recognize that the lack of belief does not negate someone from also being a good person

[Styles p]

the bible is ****ing retarded. and how can you believe you can cross your hands and talk to this guy floating somewhere between the sky and space.

[~primetime~]

Sounds like a perfect way to say God exists without having to actually prove it with legit evidence... how do you argue with that? so then I assume you believe in aliens also... and that a "judge" would have to rule that they exist? Do encounters with aliens also count as supernatural encounters?

But whatever... if your belief in God makes you a better person... than more power to you... just recognize that the lack of belief does not negate someone from also being a good person
but people who claim to see Aliens and ghosts don't have to LITERALLY DIE IN A HOSPITAL!!!

people who have NDEs flat-line...they have died and lived to talk about it

it isn't like they are just out to seek attention...

[PistolPete]

the bible is ****ing retarded. and how can you believe you can cross your hands and talk to this guy floating somewhere between the sky and space.

LOL has nothing to do with sky and space. Pointing upwards or looking upwards is just a traditional thing since the days of Moses. God, spirituality is everywhere. It all comes down to faith and a firm belief that we are not just here by chance, but by choice.

[~primetime~]

LOL has nothing to do with sky and space. Pointing upwards or looking upwards is just a traditional thing since the days of Moses. God, spirituality is everywhere. It all comes down to faith and a firm believe that we are not just here by chance, but by choice.

I believe this as well...although I am agnostic, I am an agnostist-thiest

after reading a ton of NDE stories I also believe that we have choosen our own lives here...and we created this universe/science as a school to learn and grow spiritually...

and alot of people look down when they pray, or just close their eyes...

how you pray doesn't matter I don't think, it is what/who you pray for...in fact praying itself may not matter, but rather how you feel inside.

[Hawker]

I'm religious unaffiliated and things seem to be going pretty well. Maybe if I prayed to god I would start getting some *****.

[FG20]

Im converted LDS, and after a good eight years of looking for god ive decided that god doesnt care about religion as much as people want you to believe. If anything, he cares that you do your very best to be a good as you can because everybody has a personal and not a universal measuring stick. That being said, the Mormons are right... jus sayin


You dont have to believe in god... he believes in you



/FG20ReligiousPhaze

[PistolPete]

I certainly did not choose this life though. I must've scorned some S.O.B. in a previous life to give me the bad luck I have in this one.


But I continue to have faith

[~primetime~]

I certainly did not choose this life though. I must've scorned some S.O.B. in a previous life to give me the bad luck I have in this one.


But I continue to have faith
If your sitting in front of a computer right now instead of jail bars or a hospital ER room then I wouldn't complain too much...

I have a feeling that the lives that struggle the most are the spirits that need to grow the most...or it could be the least...


If you spend your life chasing money and material things and women and constantly trying to please no one but yourself then I believe that is a life that is wasted...

[Hawker]

I certainly did not choose this life though. I must've scorned some S.O.B. in a previous life to give me the bad luck I have in this one.


But I continue to have faith

lol bad luck? You're a teacher bro. You have a job.

I'm sure there are people in africa, mexico, and bangladesh that would love your job.

That's why I seriously have no sympathy for people that are depressed.

[pollackjack]

If you spend your life chasing money and material things and women and constantly trying to please no one but yourself then I believe that is a life that is wasted...

I can only assume that if you obtain them though and are not merely chasing these things, your life is not wasted. Your life is awesome.

[PistolPete]

lol bad luck? You're a teacher bro. You have a job.

I'm sure there are people in africa, mexico, and bangladesh that would love your job.

That's why I seriously have no sympathy for people that are depressed.

Yeah you and prime are right, but I'm not depressed though. Financially strapped for years and years with huge amounts of debt and a nearly non-existent social life get ya wondering though. But I have some shady friends and all I meet are some shady women. Who's fault is that though? Probably all mine.

I'm grateful for what I've got.

[~primetime~]

I can only assume that if you obtain them though and are not merely chasing these things, your life is not wasted. Your life is awesome.
IDK...

I suppose prety much every person in the world has been guilty of greed to some degreee, there is no escaping that...

I think it is just more to do with where your heart is...



I read some article about the progression of alot of rich people...it seems tht there is a common trend with alot of them...

1. wanting fame/money
2. getting fame and money
3. enjoying fame and money
4. realizing that fame can suck big time
5. realizing that material things are boring and meaningless
6. travel around the world
7. go on to become philanthropists


some philanthropists may be doing it for greedy reasons though...in an attempt to get others to love them and look up to them...

It is said that there is "no such thing as a selfless act"...

If you enjoy helping people, then you are doing it for your own enjoyment...


It is a difficult thing to figure out, I guess my feelings are that people should try to make others here as happy as much as possible, that should be the goal...to bring happiness around you...

[FG20]

some philanthropists may be doing it for greedy reasons though...in an attempt to get others to love them and look up to them...

It is said that there is "no such thing as a selfless act"...

If you enjoy helping people, then you are doing it for your own enjoyment...


The girl I love is about to get hit by a bus. I push her out of the way and get hit myself, not because im so narcisitic that I want people at my funeral to talk about how great of a guy I was but because I honestly didnt want any harm to come to this girl and that is all... no I wasnt looking for pucsy that night either.

absolutley NO SUCH THING as a selfless act? I dont think so, but agreed that its difficult to find the pure selfless acts.

[~primetime~]

The girl I love is about to get hit by a bus. I push her out of the way and get hit myself, not because im so narcisitic that I want people at my funeral to talk about how great of a guy I was but because I honestly didnt want any harm to come to this girl and that is all... no I wasnt looking for pucsy that night either.

absolutley NO SUCH THING as a selfless act? I dont think so, but agreed that its difficult to find the pure selfless acts.
because "YOU" didn't want...blah blah blah

you did it because it made you happy knowing that she will live...

you would rather die than live in misery without her...

you did it to make yourself happy...

her living = your happiness

[lefthook00]

I have two theories on this "creation from nothing" notion.

1) Although my understanding is limited, I believe something can be created from nothing. There is something called anti-matter, and when it collides with matter, a big boom happens.

2) Time is in the "present." As time goes forward, the "future" happens. And everything that time has passed is the "past." However, if there was no beggining point, time is travelling back towards the "past" in much the same way that it is travelling forward towards the "future." Meaning, there is no "beggining" and no "end," only what is present. So if you go back far enough, the "past" didn't happen much like how the future hasn't happened yet, its just that the timeline is going in a different direction(not forward). It's easier for me to think about it than say it, but ya.

[FG20]

because "YOU" didn't want...blah blah blah

you did it because it made you happy knowing that she will live...

you would rather die than live in misery without her...

you did it to make yourself happy...

her living = your happiness

You telling me you have time to think that out as the bus is speeding towards the gir.......

SPLAT!

Gut reactions from firemen and people who save lives are described as the following: "I didnt really know what was happening, I just acted"

Well... whether or not you know or love the girl, are you telling me that you want to save a person SO MUCH that you will ignore your own safety? That you will ignore rule number one to Hobbes and Lockes theories of self-preservation and the carnal man? That somehow an unthought out action like that goes against our bodies and minds hardwired command to above all else survive because we want to be happy?

[PistolPete]

Science + Contradictions that Christian people spew out (look up George Carlin) + Can't see him/can't be proven he exists + other minor things that add up

And a comedian like George Carlin is the voice of reason...:hammerhead:

Forget what Christians spew out, the question goes past Christianity, goes past believing in Jesus. The question deals with if there was a master creator, or if science is the ultimate explanation.

Man may have not been around during the age of the dinosaurs, but civilizations have been around for what, 10,000 years or so (at least from what's recorded), yet we're still here and everything else around us is inferior in mostly all aspects with intelligence being the most important. In 10,000 years we are the most advanced species on the planet able to change our planet around us with the flick of a switch. Don't think science has been able to explain that phenomenon. Man created science. But who created man?? Ahh

[~primetime~]

You telling me you have time to think that out as the bus is speeding towards the gir.......

SPLAT!

Gut reactions from firemen and people who save lives are described as the following: "I didnt really know what was happening, I just acted"

Well... whether or not you know or love the girl, are you telling me that you want to save a person SO MUCH that you will ignore your own safety? That you will ignore rule number one to Hobbes and Lockes theories of self-preservation and the carnal man? That somehow an unthought out action like that goes against our bodies and minds hardwired command to above all else survive because we want to be happy?
I am telling you that if "YOU" didn't want to save her then "YOU" wouldn't..."YOU" did because "YOU" wanted to...(which is good in this case)

If those firemen's gut reaction is to save, then that is what "THEY" want...that is probably what alot of them took the job for...


also, I have a pretty good feeling that this is the type of greed that would be viewed as a very good kind of greed to have...

if it is true that "there is no such thing as a selfless act", then I am betting the greedyness of making others happy or saving lives is better than they greedyness of just pleasing yourself without helping others...

that saying is kind of unfair, due to the fact that we all only do things that "WE" want to do...no matter what it is