top ten european players not in the nba.

[la bomba]

there is a thread about the top ten european players and it ended up with lists that included Tim Duncan and nocioni?!
So How about a top ten of european players,who do not play in the NBA.
Mine would be the following.
1/Rudy Fernandez
2/Matiaz Smodis
3/Nikola vujcic
4/Theo Papaloukas
5/Saras Jasikevicius
6/Arvydas Macijauskas.
7/dimitrios diamantidis
8/jaka Lakovic.
9/Felipe Reyes
10/Danilo Galinari.


I am sure I could make 4 or 5 of this lists,such is the quality.

[simasu01]

mine would be
1- Rudy Fernandez
2- Sarunas Jasikevicius
3- Theo Papaloukas
4- Arvydas Macijauskas
5- Matias Smodis
6- Nikola Vujcic
7- Felipe Reyes
8- Dimitris Diamantidis
9- Danilo Galinari
10- Either Jaka Lakovic or Gianluca Basile(haven't heard from him in a while)

[berraco]

Nice list, mine is pretty similar in the names, but not in the order:


1/Matiaz Smodis - The most complete player right now, IMO
2/dimitrios diamantidis - Another "total player", great defense, great offense. Best player of the year for many people.
3/Nikola vujcic - I had my doubts because of his injury. Let's see how he recover, but he was the real deal in the paint
4/Theo Papaloukas - A real leader, always there when is needed
5/S. Jasikevicius - The heart, the soul and the skills. Could climb some spots in my list for next year :D
6/Rudy Fernandez - Spectacular in any sense
7/jaka Lakovic. - The best 3p shooting PG I have seen for years in Europe. A real difference maker also with his drives and assists.
8/F. Reyes - The toughest close to the rim, and his jumper is getting range. Could he end up nailing the 3's in the near future?
9/A. Macijauskas. - Almost unstoppable when he is in shape, but a bit unidimensional
10/ Marc Gasol - A bit (well, a lot) homer here, but I think the guy leading the MVP ranking in ACB needs to be mentioned here. Close competition to Gallinari, Pekovic, and maybe Igor Rakocevic.

[la bomba]

Nice list, mine is pretty similar in the names, but not in the order:


1/Matiaz Smodis - The most complete player right now, IMO
2/dimitrios diamantidis - Another "total player", great defense, great offense. Best player of the year for many people.
3/Nikola vujcic - I had my doubts because of his injury. Let's see how he recover, but he was the real deal in the paint
4/Theo Papaloukas - A real leader, always there when is needed
5/S. Jasikevicius - The heart, the soul and the skills. Could climb some spots in my list for next year :D
6/Rudy Fernandez - Spectacular in any sense
7/jaka Lakovic. - The best 3p shooting PG I have seen for years in Europe. A real difference maker also with his drives and assists.
8/F. Reyes - The toughest close to the rim, and his jumper is getting range. Could he end up nailing the 3's in the near future?
9/A. Macijauskas. - Almost unstoppable when he is in shape, but a bit unidimensional
10/ Marc Gasol - A bit (well, a lot) homer here, but I think the guy leading the MVP ranking in ACB needs to be mentioned here. Close competition to Gallinari, Pekovic, and maybe Igor Rakocevic.
Good to see that our lists are similar,or maybe not,it could mean that there aren't that many.I like to think not.Yes Marc gasol has been fantastic,shame he decided to stay at akasvayu and not play for barca,mind you probably the best decision for him,I am obviously biased on that one.Plus I believe him and his bro Pau are espanyol fans so not so much attachement to barca!lol.I think there are loads of other very good players but these 12 players or so mentioned stand out.
I would mention the likes of siskauskas,kaukenas,Spanoulis,Cabezas,Gurovic(when he is in a good spell),Kristof Lavrinovic,also a few players in uleb like khalid el amin from turk telecom or Jagla from DKV Joventud both young,I think Jagla will play in the NBA in a few years.7ft ,takes 3pts.Also young slovenian guard goran dragic who plays for olimpia in the euroleague.Sorry I thought I'd put Ricky Rubio in there,just realised i missed him out.he would be in my top 7 atleast.He is amazing,seen him play live,his defence is great for someone so young.he averaged 7 steals in the euroleague in a spell of 4 games aged 16.only just turned 17.he is begining to hit 3s and put big scoring numbers too.He will be great,already a super player.

[b.jerk]

there is a thread about the top ten european players and it ended up with lists that included Tim Duncan and nocioni?!
So How about a top ten of european players,who do not play in the NBA.
Mine would be the following.
1/Rudy Fernandez
2/Matiaz Smodis
3/Nikola vujcic
4/Theo Papaloukas
5/Saras Jasikevicius
6/Arvydas Macijauskas.
7/dimitrios diamantidis
8/jaka Lakovic.
9/Felipe Reyes
10/Danilo Galinari.

You obviously not well informed, your best player Rudy Fernandez is hurt and doesn't even play in the euroleague. The only players that belong on the list is Smodis.

[berraco]

I would mention the likes of siskauskas,kaukenas,Spanoulis,Cabezas,Gurovic(when he is in a good spell),Kristof Lavrinovic,also a few players in uleb like khalid el amin from turk telecom or Jagla from DKV Joventud both young,I think Jagla will play in the NBA in a few years.7ft ,takes 3pts.Also young slovenian guard goran dragic who plays for olimpia in the euroleague.Sorry I thought I'd put Ricky Rubio in there,just realised i missed him out.he would be in my top 7 atleast.He is amazing,seen him play live,his defence is great for someone so young.he averaged 7 steals in the euroleague in a spell of 4 games aged 16.only just turned 17.he is begining to hit 3s and put big scoring numbers too.He will be great,already a super player.

Yeah, there are a lot. Siskauskas was also one of my possible picks for the 10th spot. Jagla could be a poorman's Dirk, but he needs to improve in many areas, although he is showing his talent. Ricky will be THE player in a couple of years, but since he is so young I decided to keep him out for now, although he could be there. He will be amazing (he already is) and a #1 in Europe and in NBA. I'm pretty sure of that.

[berraco]

You obviously not well informed, your best player Rudy Fernandez is hurt and doesn't even play in the euroleague. The only players that belong on the list is Smodis.

Obviusly the not well informed is you. Rudy is already recovered and only missed 3 games. What if his team doesn't play Euroleague? Does it mean a player is worse due to that? I don't think he is the top player today, but he surely is in the Top 10. I would love to see your list if you think only Smodis should be there.

[b.jerk]

Obviusly the not well informed is you. Rudy is already recovered and only missed 3 games. What if his team doesn't play Euroleague? Does it mean a player is worse due to that? I don't think he is the top player today, but he surely is in the Top 10. I would love to see your list if you think only Smodis should be there.

Rudy isn't the best player outside in the nba because he isn't even the best player in the ULEB or the ACB and Danilo Gallinari isn't the tenth best player in the euroleague. It's obvious that La Bomba is a new fan of the euroleague and uleb.

[berraco]

Rudy isn't the best player outside in the nba because he isn't even the best player in the ULEB or the ACB and Danilo Gallinari isn't the tenth best player in the euroleague. It's obvious that La Bomba is a new fan of the euroleague and uleb.

So who are the best for you?

[simasu01]

I was also deciding between Siskauskas, Kaukenas and a few other guys, but I think you could argue the last 3-5 spots on the top 10. And Ricky Rubio is still not yet a superstar, he is very good, VERY good, but since he has about as many years to play as he is alive, I think he'll be in top 5, maybe #1 in a few years.

[b.jerk]

So who are the best for you?

I don't know stats don't translate into euroleague like the nba. Smodis, Tiago Splitter, maybe Trajan Langdon or his teammates. CSKA could have five of the best ten players in europe and it's hard to rank CSKA's players. I would have to wait for the second stage to figure out the top ten.

[simasu01]

Smodis is the only European you listed. Tiago Splitter is Brazilian and Langdon is American. Didn't you read the name of the topic?

[la bomba]

I don't know stats don't translate into euroleague like the nba. Smodis, Tiago Splitter, maybe Trajan Langdon or his teammates. CSKA could have five of the best ten players in europe and it's hard to rank CSKA's players. I would have to wait for the second stage to figure out the top ten.
1st of all I am not new to euroleague or Uleb!!I have been following european basketball well before the ULEB was conceived!Secondly you are obviously the one that doesn't have a clue,you can't even make a top ten list and when you do you mention an american and a brazilian out of three.
Thirdly DKV JOventud currently lead the ACB(the fact that they are not in the Euroleague means jack****!)Are Brose basketball club,roanne,prokom,zalgiris,virtus,milano,partizan ,aris better than DKV?chances are they are not.CSKA players?you said rudy shouldn't count cause he is injured?He has missed 3 or 4 games,half the cska team is injured!Papaloukas,smodis and savrasenko.So the only europeans left are Zisis,Pashutin(who rarely plays) and siskauskas,plus a host of russian players like vorontsevich who don't feature much.
I mean really you have done justice to your name.

[la bomba]

I don't know stats don't translate into euroleague like the nba. Smodis, Tiago Splitter, maybe Trajan Langdon or his teammates. CSKA could have five of the best ten players in europe and it's hard to rank CSKA's players. I would have to wait for the second stage to figure out the top ten.
You would have to wait to the second stage?You obviously are the one that doesn't know the players well enough to make a judgement,what you waiting for?stats so you can base your order on them?

[la bomba]

You obviously not well informed, your best player Rudy Fernandez is hurt and doesn't even play in the euroleague. The only players that belong on the list is Smodis.
How can smodis be the only one that should be in that list?Its not very contraversial,Papaloukas?diamantidis?Vujcic?I mean who would your other 9 be?By the sounds of it a lot of non-europeans for starters.You probably think the best player in the euroleague is will Bynum.

[jamal99]

Nobody mentioned Nikola Pekovic in their list? Why?
Igor Rakocevic?
Tadija Dragicevic from Red Star is young but in top 5 in ULEB Cup.

[berraco]

Nobody mentioned Nikola Pekovic in their list? Why?
Igor Rakocevic?
Tadija Dragicevic from Red Star is young but in top 5 in ULEB Cup.

I mentioned both as candidates for my 10th spot. And also said that I was being homer taking Gasol :D
I don't see any of them above the 10th though. Rako can not be today above Macijauskas (same work, much better performance by Arvydas). And I want to see if Pekovic can sustain his performance and lead his team to the top16. Anyway, I would not mind putting him at the end of the list, really. I'm really surprise with the kid.
On the other hand, I haven't seen Dragicevic (it seems ULEB Cup is not shown in Spain or at least I haven't found it), so I can not judge him.

[b.jerk]

1st of all I am not new to euroleague or Uleb!!I have been following european basketball well before the ULEB was conceived!Secondly you are obviously the one that doesn't have a clue,you can't even make a top ten list and when you do you mention an american and a brazilian out of three.
Thirdly DKV JOventud currently lead the ACB(the fact that they are not in the Euroleague means jack****!)Are Brose basketball club,roanne,prokom,zalgiris,virtus,milano,partizan ,aris better than DKV?chances are they are not.CSKA players?you said rudy shouldn't count cause he is injured?He has missed 3 or 4 games,half the cska team is injured!Papaloukas,smodis and savrasenko.So the only europeans left are Zisis,Pashutin(who rarely plays) and siskauskas,plus a host of russian players like vorontsevich who don't feature much.
I mean really you have done justice to your name.

It's great your a new fan of european basketball but when you make statements like Dkv Joventut leads the ACB when they didn't win the preseason tournament and don't include that they haven't played the better ACB teams yet, Dkv Joventut is a better team than Zalgris or Aris, playing euroleague doesn't mean jack and Tiago Splitter and Trajen Langdon are not european players even if they play in the europe and Tiago Splitter has spanish citizenship and Trajen Langdon has russian citizenship since both leagues have quotas against foreigners. If you wanted european players born in europe ask specifically for european players born in europe. It's one thing to have an opinion but if you act like a european basketball expert you should have a clue of what you're writing about because right now you look foolish. Lastly, at least spell Dkv Joventut correctly if they're your favorite team.

[simasu01]

Ok but when you think of Europeans dont you think of people born IN Europe? Take an example of Ronaldinho. Everyone knows he's Brazilian, but he has dual citizenship, his native Brazil and Spain so FC Barcelona wouldn't go over the foreigners limit so they gave him a Spanish passport. Does that make him European? Didn't think so. He still plays fro Brazil, just like Tiago Splitter. About Langdon, russian isn't really European, and he's not good enough to be on either the russian team or USA. But I'm still curious to your list b.jerk. If your gonna take all of those players off, then let's see a list.

[la bomba]

It's great your a new fan of european basketball but when you make statements like Dkv Joventut leads the ACB when they didn't win the preseason tournament and don't include that they haven't played the better ACB teams yet, Dkv Joventut is a better team than Zalgris or Aris, playing euroleague doesn't mean jack and Tiago Splitter and Trajen Langdon are not european players even if they play in the europe and Tiago Splitter has spanish citizenship and Trajen Langdon has russian citizenship since both leagues have quotas against foreigners. If you wanted european players born in europe ask specifically for european players born in europe. It's one thing to have an opinion but if you act like a european basketball expert you should have a clue of what you're writing about because right now you look foolish. Lastly, at least spell Dkv Joventut correctly if they're your favorite team.
1st of all I don't know what your problem is with my opinion and why you think I am a new fan.Then the citizenship thing is ludicrous!Langdon is a yank and splitter is brazilian!Shammond williams plays for georgia cause he has somehow a georgian passport!but he is a yank!I did not categorically say that DKV joventut(right spelling,as you are so hot in spellings its trajan not trajen,thought I'd mention it)are better than those teams,I questioned whether those teams mentioned are any better than them.They do lead the ACB!its not an opinion its a fact!what pre-season tournaments are you on about?do you think anyone cares about pre season??I still consider Barca as a big club,Joventut beat them by 21.I also think Akasvayu are a strong side,Joventut beat them by 19.As for thinking I am a dkv fan,well that shows how little you know about euorpean basketball and in particular spanish basketball.With a nic like La Bomba it would be obvious I support another team to most fans.The thread was about top ten european(yes we all know what we mean by european,no splitter is not european!)not in the nba.so make a list and show us your expertise or don't bother commenting in this thread.I have been following european cup basketball for a couple of decades,since meneghin,berkowitz,corbalan,epi,sibilio,chomicious ,kurtinaitis,tarakanov fernando martin gallis fassoulas yannakis christodoulou volkov tkshenko sabonis kukoc radja savic riva premier brunamonti romay itturiaga dacoury ostrowski jamchy obradovic petrovic etc etc
Personally I think you are making a better job than I am at making yourself look foolish.

[la bomba]

Nobody mentioned Nikola Pekovic in their list? Why?
Igor Rakocevic?
Tadija Dragicevic from Red Star is young but in top 5 in ULEB Cup.
Pekovic has been fantastic .thats what the thread is for discussion,put down a list.when making a list you are always going to miss some.I mean from my list according to the jerk there is only 1 he would have so it shows that there is a lot of quality,having said that we are all still waiting for the jerk's list.
I think Rakocevic is one of those players that can either blow you away or be blown away.He has a lot of bad games,Like Berraco says I think Macijauskas is better.still he is a legitimate top tenner.

[b.jerk]

1st of all I don't know what your problem is with my opinion and why you think I am a new fan.Then the citizenship thing is ludicrous!Langdon is a yank and splitter is brazilian!Shammond williams plays for georgia cause he has somehow a georgian passport!but he is a yank!I did not categorically say that DKV joventut(right spelling,as you are so hot in spellings its trajan not trajen,thought I'd mention it)are better than those teams,I questioned whether those teams mentioned are any better than them.They do lead the ACB!its not an opinion its a fact!what pre-season tournaments are you on about?do you think anyone cares about pre season??I still consider Barca as a big club,Joventut beat them by 21.I also think Akasvayu are a strong side,Joventut beat them by 19.As for thinking I am a dkv fan,well that shows how little you know about euorpean basketball and in particular spanish basketball.With a nic like La Bomba it would be obvious I support another team to most fans.The thread was about top ten european(yes we all know what we mean by european,no splitter is not european!)not in the nba.so make a list and show us your expertise or don't bother commenting in this thread.I have been following european cup basketball for a couple of decades,since meneghin,berkowitz,corbalan,epi,sibilio,chomicious ,kurtinaitis,tarakanov fernando martin gallis fassoulas yannakis christodoulou volkov tkshenko sabonis kukoc radja savic riva premier brunamonti romay itturiaga dacoury ostrowski jamchy obradovic petrovic etc etc
Personally I think you are making a better job than I am at making yourself look foolish.

Rudy Fernandez is a nice player and DKV Joventut is a nice team but they didn't win the supercopa, they haven't played a euroleague team in the ACB season and DKV Joventut isn't expected to beat those euroleague teams in the acb. If you want to familiarize yourself with the supercopa and it's mvp here's a link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=admclfbEFo8).

[berraco]

Well, DKV didn't played the Supercopa because the hosting city team has to play (this year was Iurbentia Bilbao). However they did the merits to do it, after being semifinalist in ACB last year. They also did enough to be playing Euroleague, but Unicaja filled the last spanish spot because they reach the Final Four although they had an average domestic season (just earned the last playoff seed).
This year they have a better team than last season. They have already blown out Bar

[b.jerk]

[QUOTE=berraco]Well, DKV didn't played the Supercopa because the hosting city team has to play (this year was Iurbentia Bilbao). However they did the merits to do it, after being semifinalist in ACB last year. They also did enough to be playing Euroleague, but Unicaja filled the last spanish spot because they reach the Final Four although they had an average domestic season (just earned the last playoff seed).
This year they have a better team than last season. They have already blown out Bar

[la bomba]

No offense to DKV Joventut but they are a nice team that has played an easy schedule, they haven't played CSKA or Olympiacos twice and there's a reason Tau Ceramica is a heavy favorite over DKV Joventut. Nicola Pekovic is a nice player but Partizan is playing in group C, the weakest group in the euroleague and Nicola Pekovic isn't likely to lead Partizan to the next stage. The Tau Ceramica and Olympiacos was the meanest and most physical match of the year, including the nba and Tiago Splitter was defended by as many as four player at once that are big even for the nba. Despite all the schemes of Olympiacos, Tiago Splitter still dished out the pain and still had crucial rebounds, assists and points to win the game. Your assertion of Tiago Splitter being soft or "not as dominate as he should be" is wrong, right now he's arguably one of the most physical and dominate basketball players in the world. He's Cassio Splitter's son and he's not going have an issue with physical play or hurting someone in the euroleague or the nba, his father probably already taught him how to better than any other player in the nba and he's more than big enough to do some serious harm. Without him Tau Ceramica wouldn't of won the supercopa and probably wouldn't even qualify for the second stage. He's being compared to Arvydas Sabonis before Arvydas Sabonis played in the nba and when he was actually good. Any reasonable or knowledgeable fan would understand that Rudy Fernandez and Nicola Pekovic are not even close to the talent of Tiago Splitter and would view him as one of the ten best players playing in europe.
still no list.made a fool of yourself again when you said joventut had not beaten a euroleague team even though I told you they'd blown barca away,you obviously don't read the responses.Berraco has explained really well why DKV aren't in the euroleague.and as for DKV not playing the supercopa,so what,had they played it they would have had as good a chance as TAU,barca or Iurbentia.No one is saying that tiago splitter isn't good,its just that this list I was after(as I started the thread) Was about european players!!not south american players.I don't know if group C is the weakest. Madrid,barca,pana,ulker,partizan, it seems to me like a tough group,having said that all 3 groups are fairly balanced.If you are a half decent side going through to the last 16 isn't too hard.

[b.jerk]

still no list.made a fool of yourself again when you said joventut had not beaten a euroleague team even though I told you they'd blown barca away,you obviously don't read the responses.Berraco has explained really well why DKV aren't in the euroleague.and as for DKV not playing the supercopa,so what,had they played it they would have had as good a chance as TAU,barca or Iurbentia.No one is saying that tiago splitter isn't good,its just that this list I was after(as I started the thread) Was about european players!!not south american players.I don't know if group C is the weakest. Madrid,barca,pana,ulker,partizan, it seems to me like a tough group,having said that all 3 groups are fairly balanced.If you are a half decent side going through to the last 16 isn't too hard.

Sorry but I'm not arrogant enough to make a list of the ten best europeans before the second stage. The euroleague is more like major league baseball than the nba because a lot of the best players play for the same team and it's hard to tell who's the best until the later stages of better competition. I might write something foolish like Rudy Fernandez is the best european born player or Danilo Gallinari is the tenth best european born player or DKV Joventut is more than a nice little team. Both are good nice young players but they're not the best european born players.

[berraco]

I thank god you come here to enlighten us. I would wait 4 months to make the list of current best players. Yeah, that makes sense.

[kNIOKAS]

Nobody mentioned Nikola Pekovic in their list? Why?
Igor Rakocevic?
Tadija Dragicevic from Red Star is young but in top 5 in ULEB Cup.
yeah celebrate serbia & montenegro :no: :no:



marcus brown was superior today. 7/9 i believe from three point line and absolute abusing of his talent on the court. at one moment the lead was 37 (virtus bolognia @ kauno zalgiris)

[b.jerk]

I thank god you come here to enlighten us. I would wait 4 months to make the list of current best players. Yeah, that makes sense.

Sorry I'm honest I can't, La Bomba tried and looked silly. European leagues like the euroleague is in transition to becoming as good as the nba and because of that the league unlike the nba in most aspects of it's game is undefined and unpredictable.

[la bomba]

Sorry I'm honest I can't, La Bomba tried and looked silly. European leagues like the euroleague is in transition to becoming as good as the nba and because of that the league unlike the nba in most aspects of it's game is undefined and unpredictable.
I don't see how I can look silly by making a top ten list of current players that are in form.anyway just piss off from this thread and do us all a favour by stopping to make a fool of yourself.This is not a thread about DKV Joventut,whether they are a nice team a good team or a bad team is irrelevant.we are talking about the players.The list was for people to discuss,no one is going to have the same list,even I could make a different list,it is not arrogance to make a list of what you think are 10 top players.
Anyway I saw barca play partizan and Pekovic didn't have a good game.Still definately a player to watch.Jerk i am sorry but I am tired of your insults,so unless you put down a list(which you won't cause you can't think of one as it is incredibly arrogant!)or discuss players I will not reply to anymore of your nonsensical replies.all the best

[la bomba]

Rudy Fernandez is a nice player and DKV Joventut is a nice team but they didn't win the supercopa, they haven't played a euroleague team in the ACB season and DKV Joventut isn't expected to beat those euroleague teams in the acb. If you want to familiarize yourself with the supercopa and it's mvp here's a link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=admclfbEFo8).
Dkv Joventut beat Unicaja tonight,I suppose you don't think Unicaja(who has beaten Barca and Madrid ,should i say hammered them!)are any good.Well they hammered unicaja with rudy fernandez and ricky rubio as stars look at their stats in www.acb.com

[b.jerk]

Dkv Joventut beat Unicaja tonight,I suppose you don't think Unicaja(who has beaten Barca and Madrid ,should i say hammered them!)are any good.Well they hammered unicaja with rudy fernandez and ricky rubio as stars look at their stats in www.acb.com

Unfortunately DKV Joventut lost to Tau Ceramica and are now fourth in the ACB standing despite Rudy Fernandez having the best game of his career. DKV Joventut has been losing more lately.

[la bomba]

Unfortunately DKV Joventut lost to Tau Ceramica and are now fourth in the ACB standing despite Rudy Fernandez having the best game of his career. DKV Joventut has been losing more lately.
Yes but still ahead of TAU.;)
Spanish league is amazingly competitive.Barca beat madrid by 20ish then lost by the same amount thereabout to menorca.
Great season ,total suprise , Iurbentia Bilbao!they have been fantastic.

[b.jerk]

Yes but still ahead of TAU.;)
Spanish league is amazingly competitive.Barca beat madrid by 20ish then lost by the same amount thereabout to menorca.
Great season ,total suprise , Iurbentia Bilbao!they have been fantastic.

More than half the teams in the ACB are really bad and the only reason DKV Joventut standings was their early schedule was weak. DKV Joventut is a good team but not good enough to compete with the euroleague teams of the ACB late in the season.

[la bomba]

More than half the teams in the ACB are really bad and the only reason DKV Joventut standings was their early schedule was weak. DKV Joventut is a good team but not good enough to compete with the euroleague teams of the ACB late in the season.
we will see last year they should have beaten Madrid in the semis,they lost 3 2 and the 3 that they lost by less than 5 points."more than half the teams in the ACB are really bad????" what??
Unicaja are struggling to get into the cup(top 8 places) and they are a euroleague team,final four last year.Gran Canaria(12th in ACB) and pamesa are both going well in the uleb.Vivemenorca(13th) beat Barca(another euroleague team that beat madrid days before).I think you are totally mistaken,there is no league in europe with the depth that the acb has.of course there are teams aren't as good someone has to be 16th or 12th etc!Tell me a league in europe which has more depth?Please do not say the israeli!!!as someone else mentioned in another forum,thats just plain ludicrous!

[b.jerk]

we will see last year they should have beaten Madrid in the semis,they lost 3 2 and the 3 that they lost by less than 5 points."more than half the teams in the ACB are really bad????" what??
Unicaja are struggling to get into the cup(top 8 places) and they are a euroleague team,final four last year.Gran Canaria(12th in ACB) and pamesa are both going well in the uleb.Vivemenorca(13th) beat Barca(another euroleague team that beat madrid days before).I think you are totally mistaken,there is no league in europe with the depth that the acb has.of course there are teams aren't as good someone has to be 16th or 12th etc!Tell me a league in europe which has more depth?Please do not say the israeli!!!as someone else mentioned in another forum,thats just plain ludicrous!

The second half of the ACB isn't good and there isn't any parity between the best five teams in the ACB and the lesser half. The worst team in the ACB couldn't beat the favorite in the ACB but the worst team in the bsl, Ramat Gan not only beat Maccabi they just blew them out. The ACB is better than the BSL but the competitive balance of the bsl for this year is better. In the israeli league's defense, they do employ african-american players that the acb refuses to hire even if they are better than their acb counterparts.

[simasu01]

Are you serious? Israeli league is more competitive? You can also watch high schools compete against each other, my team and notre dame are the biggest rivals and we lost by 3. That's competitive. But was there quality? I didn't think so. So that's what your basically comparing. Spanish league is the best in Europe. Period.

[b.jerk]

Are you serious? Israeli league is more competitive? You can also watch high schools compete against each other, my team and notre dame are the biggest rivals and we lost by 3. That's competitive. But was there quality? I didn't think so. So that's what your basically comparing. Spanish league is the best in Europe. Period.

Remove the euroleague teams of the bsl and the acb the quality and competition in the bsl is better. The average acb teams limits foreigners because most spanish players don't want to compete against former nba players and ncaa standouts, israel is different.

[la bomba]

Remove the euroleague teams of the bsl and the acb the quality and competition in the bsl is better. The average acb teams limits foreigners because most spanish players don't want to compete against former nba players and ncaa standouts, israel is different.
That is total crap man,really,I mean think about what you are saying.TAU,Unicaja,Barca and Madrid out. Macabbi out.
You have , Akasvayu(champs of fiba cup last year),DKV unbeaten in ULEB with +160 points difference in 7 uleb games,Iurbentia Bilbao(leaders of ACB),Gran Canaria (lead their group in ULEB)Pamesa Valencia(also top in their ULEB group).
All of this teams are better than the israeli teams left,even though only maccabi has been removed and 4 ACB ones.
In Spain they limit the number of foreigners to protect their national players I think that is superb!thats why they are world champions and almost won the eurobasket.A lot of times a lot of american players(don't know why you call them african-american)in the ACB are nowhere near as good as their spanish team mates.look at barca in the last few years.Shammond williams,bootsy thornton,alex aker this year,all very poor contributions.By protecting your local players you get the likes of Grimau,Trias,Rubio,Gasol,llull,Claver,Gabriel etc florishing and doing well.
http://www.ulebcup.com/ulebcup/competition/standings.

[la bomba]

Remove the euroleague teams of the bsl and the acb the quality and competition in the bsl is better. The average acb teams limits foreigners because most spanish players don't want to compete against former nba players and ncaa standouts, israel is different.
This has to be one of the most ilogical comments ever!!!In spain there are a lot of talented local players so they don't need to bring in as many foreigners,in israel they are obviously struggling with local talent,being such a small country(as much as they try to make it larger!)so they bring in loads of nba rejects to make up numbers.As for being scared to compete with americans,total bull****,they compete with them all the time in spain and in europe,and mostly successfully!

[simasu01]

As much as you would love the israelis to be good in basketball and the league to be good, it just isn't. Nobody knows a team besides Maccabi Tel aviv. The league isn't competitive at a high level. There are many leagues that are competitive, I believe israel is too, but not at a high level. ACB is #1 in Europe, you have to admit it. Israel is #1 in Asia though.

[b.jerk]

This has to be one of the most ilogical comments ever!!!In spain there are a lot of talented local players so they don't need to bring in as many foreigners,in israel they are obviously struggling with local talent,being such a small country(as much as they try to make it larger!)so they bring in loads of nba rejects to make up numbers.As for being scared to compete with americans,total bull****,they compete with them all the time in spain and in europe,and mostly successfully!


As much as you would love the israelis to be good in basketball and the league to be good, it just isn't. Nobody knows a team besides Maccabi Tel aviv. The league isn't competitive at a high level. There are many leagues that are competitive, I believe israel is too, but not at a high level. ACB is #1 in Europe, you have to admit it. Israel is #1 in Asia though.

People get shot at in Israel on a daily basis, sometimes several times a day. GM's in the nba, as well as GM's in the English Premier Soccer and Phil Jackson wouldn't have visited some of Israel's most dangerous places last year that tourist don't visit like Holon if they didn't consider there are soccer and basketball players there that could help them win in the future.

ACB in my opinion is the best domestic league outside of the nba. The Greek league, Adriatic league and the Russian league are close. It's somewhat misleading not to acknowledge that the Adriatic, Russian, Spanish and Greek league have some lesser teams. Some of the lesser ACB teams if their primary concern was quality would have more nba rejects.

[la bomba]

People get shot at in Israel on a daily basis, sometimes several times a day. GM's in the nba, as well as GM's in the English Premier Soccer and Phil Jackson wouldn't have visited some of Israel's most dangerous places last year that tourist don't visit like Holon if they didn't consider there are soccer and basketball players there that could help them win in the future.

ACB in my opinion is the best domestic league outside of the nba. The Greek league, Adriatic league and the Russian league are close. It's somewhat misleading not to acknowledge that the Adriatic, Russian, Spanish and Greek league have some lesser teams. Some of the lesser ACB teams if their primary concern was quality would have more nba rejects.
every league is going to have lesser teams,they can't all be contenders,but no league has more contenders than ACB.You say that the lower half is poor.well Barca have lost to Cajasol and Menorca both in the bottom 6.Barca are 4th with 4 defeats.Bilbao are first,they have lost only 3 games.1 of them against murcia who are 11th.TAU have lost one of their matches to Manresa who are in 15th place.So to say that the lower half can't beat the top half is totally false.
I have a great deal of respect for the israeli league and their national team,they overachieve for such a small nation,and they truely love their basketball.But it would be foolish to say their league is anywhere near the top leagues in the med.

[b.jerk]

every league is going to have lesser teams,they can't all be contenders,but no league has more contenders than ACB.You say that the lower half is poor.well Barca have lost to Cajasol and Menorca both in the bottom 6.Barca are 4th with 4 defeats.Bilbao are first,they have lost only 3 games.1 of them against murcia who are 11th.TAU have lost one of their matches to Manresa who are in 15th place.So to say that the lower half can't beat the top half is totally false.
I have a great deal of respect for the israeli league and their national team,they overachieve for such a small nation,and they truely love their basketball.But it would be foolish to say their league is anywhere near the top leagues in the med.

I'll post my response in the israel basketball thread.

[simasu01]

Hey b.jerk you wanna list your top 10 players outside of nba now?

[b.jerk]

Hey b.jerk you wanna list your top 10 players outside of nba now?

David Andersen of CSKA
Tiago Splitter of Tau Victoria
Lynn Greer of Olympiacos
Marcus Fizer and Yotam Halperin of Maccabi
Loren Woods of Efes
Tomas Speilgel of Prokom and now CSKA
Felipe Reyes of Real Madrid
Michael Batiste of Panathaikos
Chuck Eidson and Hollis Price(looked really good against maccabi and Rytas earned spots) of Rytas

Honorable mention Rudy Fernandez of DKV Joventut, Raviv Limonad of Le Manns(great player on a marginal team), Danilo Gallinari, Jasikevicius and Spanoulis of Panathaikos(It's the post players that define the team and not the guards), the entire CSKA team, Hodges of Cibola, Pekrovic of Parizan and most of the Panathaikos team.

[gsafier]

David Andersen of CSKA
Tiago Splitter of Tau Victoria
Lynn Greer of Olympiacos
Marcus Fizer and Yotam Halperin of Maccabi
Loren Woods of Efes
Tomas Speilgel of Prokom and now CSKA
Felipe Reyes of Real Madrid
Michael Batiste of Panathaikos
Chuck Eidson and Hollis Price(looked really good against maccabi and Rytas earned spots) of Rytas

Honorable mention Rudy Fernandez of DKV Joventut, Raviv Limonad of Le Manns(great player on a marginal team), Danilo Gallinari, Jasikevicius and Spanoulis of Panathaikos(It's the post players that define the team and not the guards), the entire CSKA team, Hodges of Cibola, Pekrovic of Parizan and most of the Panathaikos team.

Obviously you are a proud Israeli. That's good!
It's nice to be proud, but it doesn't have to turn you brain dead.

Yotam Halperin is not even top 20 and Raviv Limonad is a nice player but doesn't deserve to be mentioned here.

Oh, and ACB (3rd best league in the world after NBA and Euroleague) is lightyears ahead of Israeli league in everything.
Money, Marketing, crowd, talent, level, playing halls,everything.

The only Israeli team that would do well in ACB is Maccabi.
Besides that? as a franchise only Hapoel Jerusalem could play there, not as a contender though, but that's it (Beni Hasharon and Holon could perhaps compete in the ACB this year cause they have an exceptional period, but not year in and year out)

[simasu01]

Obviously you are a proud Israeli. That's good!
It's nice to be proud, but it doesn't have to turn you brain dead.

Yotam Halperin is not even top 20 and Raviv Limonad is a nice player but doesn't deserve to be mentioned here.

Oh, and ACB (3rd best league in the world after NBA and Euroleague) is lightyears ahead of Israeli league in everything.
Money, Marketing, crowd, talent, level, playing halls,everything.

The only Israeli team that would do well in ACB is Maccabi.
Besides that? as a franchise only Hapoel Jerusalem could play there, not as a contender though, but that's it (Beni Hasharon and Holon could perhaps compete in the ACB this year cause they have an exceptional period, but not year in and year out)

I hope everyone understands why b.jerk says the things he does because this man explained everything that was still unclear to him

[b.jerk]

Obviously you are a proud Israeli. That's good!
It's nice to be proud, but it doesn't have to turn you brain dead.

Yotam Halperin is not even top 20 and Raviv Limonad is a nice player but doesn't deserve to be mentioned here.

Oh, and ACB (3rd best league in the world after NBA and Euroleague) is lightyears ahead of Israeli league in everything.
Money, Marketing, crowd, talent, level, playing halls,everything.

The only Israeli team that would do well in ACB is Maccabi.
Besides that? as a franchise only Hapoel Jerusalem could play there, not as a contender though, but that's it (Beni Hasharon and Holon could perhaps compete in the ACB this year cause they have an exceptional period, but not year in and year out)

I'm going to be polite but when you admit Hapoel Jerusalem, Hapoel Holon and Bnei Hasharon could compete in the acb but Ironi Nahayria, Ramat Gan, Ironi Ashkelon, Le Zion and Afuna couldn't shows that you're not well informed. Hapoel Holon and Bnei Hasharon are just as good as and Hapoel Jerusalem isn't much better(if they are) as Ironi Nahayria, Ramat Gan, Ironi Ashkelon, Le Zion and Afuna. Even the worst team Galil Elyon had some nice wins in the ULEB and some close losses that prevented them from advancing despite losing their coach and two best players in the offseason and having a coaching change during the season.

About Yotam Halperin your national team coach said he was one of the best pg in the euroleague in the eurobasket and he's even better this season and without him Maccabi's season would be a disaster. I'm not saying Yotam Halperin is as good as Steve Nash but they play a similar type of game and if Steve Nash can be mvp of the nba than Yotam Halperin can be considered as one of the best players in the euroleague.

About Raviv Limonad his teammates at Ironi Nahayria were better than his teammates at Le Manns and please don't argue that Nicolas Batum is a good euroleague player because he isn't but he has potential. I mentioned forty players on the list and the fact that Raviv Limonad won two euroleague despite being doubled and tripled team because his teammates were so bad that they could. He's the best player I've seen playing in France and he's earned consideration in the top forty.

[gsafier]

I'm going to be polite but when you admit Hapoel Jerusalem, Hapoel Holon and Bnei Hasharon could compete in the acb but Ironi Nahayria, Ramat Gan, Ironi Ashkelon, Le Zion and Afuna couldn't shows that you're not well informed. Hapoel Holon and Bnei Hasharon are just as good as and Hapoel Jerusalem isn't much better(if they are) as Ironi Nahayria, Ramat Gan, Ironi Ashkelon, Le Zion and Afuna. Even the worst team Galil Elyon had some nice wins in the ULEB and some close losses that prevented them from advancing despite losing their coach and two best players in the offseason and having a coaching change during the season.

Thank you for being polite, but you totally missed my point.
I wasn't talking about this year in particular, but rather on the long-term ability of the franchise.

Yes, Hapoel Jerusalem kind of fell on their faces this year but a franchise with 5,000,000$ and a potential to bring 6,000 fans every game, could make it in the ACB.
But Beni-Hasharon and Holon, despite having a good year, and other clubs like Naharia and the Galille simply don't have the budget and fan base to compete in the ACB for a long term.
Perhaps Holon, Naharia, and Galille together with the late Hapoel Tel-Aviv have the potential to be there at some point in the future, but not now.

[b.jerk]

Thank you for being polite, but you totally missed my point.
I wasn't talking about this year in particular, but rather on the long-term ability of the franchise.

Yes, Hapoel Jerusalem kind of fell on their faces this year but a franchise with 5,000,000$ and a potential to bring 6,000 fans every game, could make it in the ACB.
But Beni-Hasharon and Holon, despite having a good year, and other clubs like Naharia and the Galille simply don't have the budget and fan base to compete in the ACB for a long term.
Perhaps Holon, Naharia, and Galille together with the late Hapoel Tel-Aviv have the potential to be there at some point in the future, but not now.

This belongs in the israel thread and I'll give my answer there.

[simasu01]

Hey b.jerk you know the question was for top ten EUROPEAN players right? Quite a few of your guys are not European, in fact only Spiegel and Reyes are Euros.

[la bomba]

David Andersen of CSKA
Tiago Splitter of Tau Victoria
Lynn Greer of Olympiacos
Marcus Fizer and Yotam Halperin of Maccabi
Loren Woods of Efes
Tomas Speilgel of Prokom and now CSKA
Felipe Reyes of Real Madrid
Michael Batiste of Panathaikos
Chuck Eidson and Hollis Price(looked really good against maccabi and Rytas earned spots) of Rytas

Honorable mention Rudy Fernandez of DKV Joventut, Raviv Limonad of Le Manns(great player on a marginal team), Danilo Gallinari, Jasikevicius and Spanoulis of Panathaikos(It's the post players that define the team and not the guards), the entire CSKA team, Hodges of Cibola, Pekrovic of Parizan and most of the Panathaikos team.
As the person that started this thread,I hate to see people not understanding the title.its the best 10 "european"players not in the nba.
Honourable mention to the best player in the ACB is a joke!!Van den spiegel and loren woods?? please?Halperin better than Rudy?
best passer in the euroleague(and not in this list as he is argentinian), is pepe sanchez!not Halperin!

[la bomba]

European pgs better than halperin:Rubio.Cabezas.Papaloukas.jasikevicius.zis is.
Vujanic(now at Dynamo Moscow).Lakovic.and probably another 20 or so!!
If you add sg's then the number is huge!!Siskaukas,rudy,Galinari etc etc etc.
Only cause his coach says he is the best pg doesn't make him the best pg!
I can't remember what my list was,but without looking I'll refresh it.
1/Rudy Fernandez
2/Nicola Vujcic
3/Matjaz Smodis
4/Theo Papaloukas
5/Felipe Reyes
6/Saras Jasikevicius
7/Ricky Rubio
8/Nikola Pekovic
9/ramunas Siskaukas
10/Marc Gasol

This list could be changed in order and also have a few other names like Lakovic,Lavrinovic,etc etc but atleast it is a list of european players not in the NBA,no brazilians with spanish passports ,no americans etc etc..

[b.jerk]

European pgs better than halperin:Rubio.Cabezas.Papaloukas.jasikevicius.zis is.
Vujanic(now at Dynamo Moscow).Lakovic.and probably another 20 or so!!
If you add sg's then the number is huge!!Siskaukas,rudy,Galinari etc etc etc.
Only cause his coach says he is the best pg doesn't make him the best pg!
I can't remember what my list was,but without looking I'll refresh it.
1/Rudy Fernandez
2/Nicola Vujcic
3/Matjaz Smodis
4/Theo Papaloukas
5/Felipe Reyes
6/Saras Jasikevicius
7/Ricky Rubio
8/Nikola Pekovic
9/ramunas Siskaukas
10/Marc Gasol

This list could be changed in order and also have a few other names like Lakovic,Lavrinovic,etc etc but atleast it is a list of european players not in the NBA,no brazilians with spanish passports ,no americans etc etc..

Rudy Fernandez best player in europe and Ricky Rubio seventh best player in europe and twenty better point guards in europe better than the starting point guard of maccabi tel aviv, okay no acb bias here(sarcasm).

[la bomba]

4 players play in ACB, out of 10 thats not that great a bias.Its a fact that there are a lot of great players there.
Halperin is no way the best pg,the 20 comment was sarcasm,but not too far fetched.Maccabi was playing with bynum as pg.You are delusional if you think Yotam is the best pg in europe of even in the top 5!as good a player as he is.
Anyway I wouldn't have added him in the list,as I have asked the question of top european players! If you want to make a list with your top ten european players I would very much like to discuss otherwise if you are still not going to come up with a list just lets forget the argument.

[b.jerk]

4 players play in ACB, out of 10 thats not that great a bias.Its a fact that there are a lot of great players there.
Halperin is no way the best pg,the 20 comment was sarcasm,but not too far fetched.Maccabi was playing with bynum as pg.You are delusional if you think Yotam is the best pg in europe of even in the top 5!as good a player as he is.
Anyway I wouldn't have added him in the list,as I have asked the question of top european players! If you want to make a list with your top ten european players I would very much like to discuss otherwise if you are still not going to come up with a list just lets forget the argument.

It depends who you askied I'm sure the Oklahoma City Sonics believe Yotam Halperin is a top 5 point guard. Now I don't believe Oklahoma City is an objective source but the Serbian national team is and they believe he's one of the top point guards europe and I believe he will show he's one of the top point guards in the second stage.

[simasu01]

so are you gonna make a list or not? ill make another top 10 EUROPEAN list for you to make your life easier(i wont include the players mentioned in la bomba's list)
1. Arvydas Macijauskas
2. Rimantas Kaukenas
3. K. Lavrinovic
4. D. Lavrinovic
5. Dimitris Diamantidis
6. Danilo Galinari
7. Gianluca Basile
8. Igor Rakocevic
9. Jaka Lakovic
10. Marko Milic

[gsafier]

so are you gonna make a list or not? ill make another top 10 EUROPEAN list for you to make your life easier(i wont include the players mentioned in la bomba's list)
1. Arvydas Macijauskas
2. Rimantas Kaukenas
3. K. Lavrinovic
4. D. Lavrinovic
5. Dimitris Diamantidis
6. Danilo Galinari
7. Gianluca Basile
8. Igor Rakocevic
9. Jaka Lakovic
10. Marko Milic


But where is Halperin? :cletus

[simasu01]

He's israeli, therefore Asian.

[b.jerk]

so are you gonna make a list or not? ill make another top 10 EUROPEAN list for you to make your life easier(i wont include the players mentioned in la bomba's list)
1. Arvydas Macijauskas
2. Rimantas Kaukenas
3. K. Lavrinovic
4. D. Lavrinovic
5. Dimitris Diamantidis
6. Danilo Galinari
7. Gianluca Basile
8. Igor Rakocevic
9. Jaka Lakovic
10. Marko Milic

I don't have to answer to you my moral authority is secured by choosing the brilliant CSKA and the incredible Theo Papaloukas and Trajan Langdon over Roger Clemens and I'm more than one of those lowlife media personalities feeding off the lies and misery of national sports personalities.

[simasu01]

Roger Clemens? Who is that? My point was I could make another list not using the 10 players la bomba did. And this isnt in order either.

[simasu01]

what was your point?

[b.jerk]

what was your point?

The point is I'm going to enjoy sports and not make it work, I listed a few players and teams that impressed me so far and that's all I'm going to do right now. There was one player that I noticed, ****a but more his name than his game.

[Taras Bulba]

Let's refresh this lists since some of the players mentioned made it into the NBA

1. Siskauskas
2. Diamantidis
3. Rubio
4. Smodis
5. Papaloukas
6. K. Lavrinovic
7. Nachbar
8. Bouroussis
9. Pekovic
10. Navarro

Of course I could have easily included another 4-5 but the list requires only 10

[jamal99]

Let's refresh this lists since some of the players mentioned made it into the NBA

1. Siskauskas
2. Diamantidis
3. Rubio
4. Smodis
5. Papaloukas
6. K. Lavrinovic
7. Nachbar
8. Bouroussis
9. Pekovic
10. Navarro

Of course I could have easily included another 4-5 but the list requires only 10

No Igor Rakocevic? :no: Rubio is not top 10 material yet...

[Taras Bulba]

Oh well. I said that I had to cut 4-5 as good players as any to limit the list to 10 players.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

This is quite hard.......but something like,

Pekovic
Rakocevic
Spanoulis
Navarro
Nachbar
Bouroussis
Diamantidis
Papaloukas
Reyes
Kaukenas

I have other guys like Lavrinovic brothers, Planinic, Siskauskas, up there too. I was kind of close to picking Siskauskas over Kaukenas or Reyes, but I don't think Siska has played as well in the Olympics and this year as I would like. But normally he would be in such a list. I'm also not sure about Papaloukas because he only plays for real for the last part of the season, so he's not as consistent as some of these other players.

Smodis is too injury prone so I left him out. As for Rubio, maybe next year he will be up in this type of level maybe above guys like Kaukenas, Reyes, and Papaloukas.

[JJ81]

Rudy's in the NBA now :oldlol:

[kohsterized41]

Hey check out my blog about trying to become a pro basketball player overseas. I think you will like it! http://kohsterized.blogspot.com