Ben Wallace and Joakim Noah separated in locker room...at half time

[mjbulls23]

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=114329&src=150 (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=114329&src=150)


At halftime of the Bulls' lifeless 102-88 loss to the Orlando Magic on Tuesday night, Noah and Ben Wallace had to be separated in the locker room, according to witnesses.

Noah walked into the room loudly complaining about Bulls players laughing on the bench, then Wallace confronted Noah, and Luol Deng had to step in and pull them apart, the witnesses said.

The Bulls finished the first half down 57-52 after trimming a 14-point deficit. When the second half began, the Bulls appeared shell-shocked.

They were outscored 32-10 in the third quarter as the Magic pulled out to a 27-point lead. Some Bulls reserves led a late comeback to make the final score seem respectable.

............:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: I understand Joakim is used to winning back in college and just wants to win..... but it's frustrating especially seeing a guy like Ben "Wallets" playing the way he has been and "Ballhog" Gordon out there "shooting for a contract" like Scottie Pippen said....

It's sad for me to say but this team really sucks......

[mjbulls23]

^ he was mad at the team for not playing hard.... he just wants to win..... even though he is just a rookie and hasn't done anything in the NBA yet.....

[Eldrunko247]

First of all, Joakim needs to stfu. Wallace has been winning longer than his skinny clown ass has. Joakim is also a rookie. He should be massaging Wallets feet.
I think he realizes wallets sucks donkey balls just like the rest of us do. I doubt any of the players on the Bulls respects Wallets...

[DeuceWallaces]

This keeps getting better.

[konex]

Noah should let his play do the talking. Play hard and lead by example. Stop disrespecting coaches and butting heads with veterans. What a tool..

[mhg88]

I think he realizes wallets sucks donkey balls just like the rest of us do. I doubt any of the players on the Bulls respects Wallets...

:roll: I'm loving Ben's new "Wallets" nickname. Cracks me up every time

[DieHardBullsFan]

First of all, Joakim needs to stfu. Wallace has been winning longer than his skinny clown ass has. Joakim is also a rookie. He should be massaging Wallets feet.

I got to agree with mybulls on his points.....well some...first off...wallace was a 5 season player and all of them good years came with Detroit now hes a 34 year old Center that is wearing down stats are declining...and cant play at the level he used to be....

I like Noah and hes going to be good with playing time....he needs to shut up though....he cant be calling out the team as a rookie hes got to get some years in the league before he can do that and prove something....but you got to like his intensity thats something that Chandler didnt have and Wallace....

lets face it....Wallace is not a leader...hes better on a team that had leaders like Billups and Hamilton and hell I would even say Rahweed Wallace was more of a leader than Ben Wallets was....hes shows a dont care attitude...I say this by being in the Bulls locker room and noticing Wallaces body language with the media and players......

I thought this was a good move a few years ago...I can safely say I was wrong.....its Time to dump Wallace contract (if they can) and play Noah and Grey in the middle...and get rid of Hinrich and Gordon....and Build around Deng with Boylan as the coach long term...

its time Bulls fans for a change...Rebuild 2 (this time without Krause)!!!

[reppy]

I hate it when players are laughing on the side lines when they're down in games, too.

[Silverbullit]

I hate it when players are laughing on the side lines when they're down in games, too.

So do I!

[darabzarrabi]

I hate it when players are laughing on the side lines when they're down in games, too.

I think Ben Wallace made someone laugh when he said, "isn't it great how I get paid 5 times more than Tyson Chandler and do about half of what he does, and on top of that Paxson just gave JR Smith away for free...and then Deng laughed and said "what's funnier that, or the fact that I am untouchable"...and then Tyrus Thomas laughed and said "I think the funniest is my nickname Stromile Swift II"

[Lebron23]

I think Ben Wallace made someone laugh when he said, "isn't it great how I get paid 5 times more than Tyson Chandler and do about half of what he does, and on top of that Paxson just gave JR Smith away for free...and then Deng laughed and said "what's funnier that, or the fact that I am untouchable"...and then Tyrus Thomas laughed and said "I think the funniest is my nickname Stromile Swift II"


:oldlol: :roll: :oldlol:

[rawimpact]

What i'd do to see:

http://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/standalone/gq/feature/1106/athletes/00016f.jpg


VS

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/ap_joakim_noah_070629_ms.jpg

[reppy]

I think Ben Wallace made someone laugh when he said, "isn't it great how I get paid 5 times more than Tyson Chandler and do about half of what he does, and on top of that Paxson just gave JR Smith away for free...and then Deng laughed and said "what's funnier that, or the fact that I am untouchable"...and then Tyrus Thomas laughed and said "I think the funniest is my nickname Stromile Swift II"

That was mean. :banana:

[brandonislegend]

hahhahahahaaaaaaaa

[rawimpact]

someone should photoshop joakim's face where the basketball is.

And yes, haha he does look like little wayne.

[reppy]

Is this the perfect time to pull a trade for Joakim Noah?

[loot]

i think noah is right here. he's motivated.

[ChiBulls7]

Just to add to the bulls problems. Wonderful.
Quick photoshop for ya rawimpact
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c245/JakeN7/haha.jpg

[tmacs1sleepyeye]

I bet Noah got caught staring at Wallace's *****.

[Sharas]

fatality:oldlol:

[reppy]

fatality:oldlol:

Really, what they need is one of these:

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7901/cagefriendshipvj4.jpg

:cry:

[Sharas]

that was an amazing game

and yes, at that pic ben looks like he could rip one's head off sub-zero style

[rawimpact]

Just to add to the bulls problems. Wonderful.
Quick photoshop for ya rawimpact
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c245/JakeN7/haha.jpg


haha good stuff bro

[knickscity]

I think Ben Wallace made someone laugh when he said, "isn't it great how I get paid 5 times more than Tyson Chandler and do about half of what he does, and on top of that Paxson just gave JR Smith away for free...and then Deng laughed and said "what's funnier that, or the fact that I am untouchable"...and then Tyrus Thomas laughed and said "I think the funniest is my nickname Stromile Swift II"

Lmao...:oldlol:

[jo3y91]

big ben wallet is the biggest piece of bull**** in the world.

really its gna be him or noah one or the other is gna get traded. i think noah will get traded for the fact that no one can **** with ben.

take noah 2 the cavs they need an athletic C with good hands.

[tontoz]

I think he realizes wallets sucks donkey balls just like the rest of us do. .

Speak for yourself.

[Valliant13]

While it is really not the place of a rookie to dress down the team...I would love to have someone who hates losing that much in my lockerroom. He's not whining about playing time or his contract...he's trying to get everyone to compete. If Skiles had any balls he'd start Jo over Ben, since he produces more PER minute by far...and actually tries every second he is on the court.

[Trancey]

Joakim seems to be the only to care about winning.:wtf:

How much can Bulls save if they cut "Wallets" contract?

And Chicago people, make some banderos to United Center and show them off at Bulls home game. Like that Wallets, make that steam little bit Ben.

[dak121]

Send Wallace home and keep him there. He's a coach and franchise-killer.


If Skiles had any balls he'd start Jo over Ben, since he produces more PER minute by far...and actually tries every second he is on the court.

Wallace got Skiles fired already. I'm afraid that Noah might be shipped out now. Paxson the coward is afraid of Wallace.

[wizzla11]

I 'd be pissed at BenWallet to if I was Noah i play 1/3 his tim and score more and help the team more in my little time and get paid about 50 times less. I'm sure he's not worried about the $ but the fact that vets get paid and don't live up to their contracts or look like they even care cause they laugh on the bench when getting blown. Have some pride. If I'm a former Bull I'm pissed at what Chicago has become.

[Valliant13]

Send Wallace home and keep him there. He's a coach and franchise-killer.



Wallace got Skiles fired already. I'm afraid that Noah might be shipped out now. Paxson the coward is afraid of Wallace.

Wow, I'm retarded. Somehow my brain went back in time about a month when I was typing that comment :ohwell: . Completely agree with your follow up, though.

[kidachi]

why was the bulls bench laughing?

[PK3434]

:roll: I'm loving Ben's new "Wallets" nickname. Cracks me up every time

Me too...it actually gets funnier every time I hear it.

[Chuck Thou NBA]

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=114329&src=150 (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=114329&src=150)


............:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: I understand Joakim is used to winning back in college and just wants to win..... but it's frustrating especially seeing a guy like Ben "Wallets" playing the way he has been and "Ballhog" Gordon out there "shooting for a contract" like Scottie Pippen said....

It's sad for me to say but this team really sucks......

:oldlol: Ben Wallets. Classic.

[brwnman]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bQ3y5hTHuP4

Joakim Noah takes winning seriously...

[Darius]

Shaking my head at those saying "Noah shouldn't point out the mistakes of the veterans, he's a damn rookie he needs to shut his mouth".

Same guys who are on the teachers/principals/coaches/bosses balls all the way up the ladder.

[Sharas]

Shaking my head at those saying "Noah shouldn't point out the mistakes of the veterans, he's a damn rookie he needs to shut his mouth".

Same guys who are on the teachers/principals/coaches/bosses balls all the way up the ladder.

excellent post :applause:

[Real Men Wear Green]

He needs to be traded, because the rest of the team doesn't seem to like him, and they're practically married to Ben Wallace with his idiotic contract. There's probably an ok market for Noah, someone may give a first round pick for him if they don't think they'll be in the lottery.

[zadok]

?/Duhon
?/Gordon
Nocioni/?
Joe Smith/TThomas
Noah/Gray

That's my Bulls depth chart going forward. I figure I can get a couple of legit pros for Heinrich and Deng, and a dependable backup + another bad contract for Wallace. Hopefully a lottery pick can start at one of the guard positions next year.
Haven't figured out the coach yet, wouldn't be anyone on current staff.

[Kebab Stall]

Who cares if Noah is a rookie, by the sounds of it, he was the only one who wanted to win. Atleast he's showing heart and determination and not wanting to give up. From what I read in the article Wallets should not of even confronted Noah, that to me shows that he is more concerned about his money than winning.

[Da KO King]

Anyone that doesn't back Jo Noah on this one is clueless.

When your team is down you don't laugh on the bench, period.

[Kebab Stall]

Anyone that doesn't back Jo Noah on this one is clueless.

When your team is down you don't laugh on the bench, period.
Exactly, if your bench starts laughing, you may aswell just give up. Noah was in the right and that sad sack of a player, Wallets, was in the wrong.

[DatZNasty]

Noah only makes 2.1 mil. I'd take him on Dallas in a second.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Anyone that doesn't back Jo Noah on this one is clueless.

When your team is down you don't laugh on the bench, period.
I'm not taking a side yet, because I don't know what exactly Noah said. I am inclined to agree with Noah's sentiments, but he's going to have a hard time establishing himself as a leader on a team with so many players that are more experienced than him (at the NBA level). Which is why I think he should be traded, because I don't think Chi is going to blow up the roster to get a group of guys that would follow his lead; he's not a valuable enough type of player for them to do that, even if it may just be the right thing to do. I just hope that this experience doesn't damage Noah's attitude, because there are a lot of teams out there that want guys that are focused on winning. I bet the Cs would love him.

[Patrick27]

I'm not taking a side yet, because I don't know what exactly Noah said. I am inclined to agree with Noah's sentiments, but he's going to have a hard time establishing himself as a leader on a team with so many players that are more experienced than him (at the NBA level). Which is why I think he should be traded, because I don't think Chi is going to blow up the roster to get a group of guys that would follow his lead; he's not a valuable enough type of player for them to do that, even if it may just be the right thing to do. I just hope that this experience doesn't damage Noah's attitude, because there are a lot of teams out there that want guys that are focused on winning. I bet the Cs would love him.

That would be interesting. He seems like a tornado ripping through a lockerroom. He inspires some to play better, but he rubs the vets the wrong way. His arrogance and disrespect makes me concerned he'd polarize any locker room with such a distinct mix of veterans and youth. Remember, it was the Bulls players that extended his suspension. But hey, if you want him on the C's I'd entirely support that. I'm hoping my team can get past Boston in the playoffs...

On the other hand, winning usually takes away much of the locker room drama...

[boozehound]

How much can Bulls save if they cut "Wallets" contract?

nothing. this isnt the nba. well, they took a risk picking him up knowing he was limited and long in the tooth, but they thought it would help dismantle the pistons as well. too bad he tarnished his excellent workingmans career with this stint

[boozehound]

Anyone that doesn't back Jo Noah on this one is clueless.

When your team is down you don't laugh on the bench, period.
I dont think the issue was really the laughing on the bench. more likely, noah's track record of tardiness and coach fighting leaves him little room to criticize other players, esp as a rookie. cmon now, its not like hes been the answer in the middle for them, hell aaron grey has played better than him at times.

[Real Men Wear Green]

That would be interesting. He seems like a tornado ripping through a lockerroom. He inspires some to play better, but he rubs the vets the wrong way. His arrogance and disrespect makes me concerned he'd polarize any locker room with such a distinct mix of veterans and youth. Remember, it was the Bulls players that extended his suspension. But hey, if you want him on the C's I'd entirely support that. I'm hoping my team can get past Boston in the playoffs...

On the other hand, winning usually takes away much of the locker room drama...
The thing is, if he had any sense he'd see that players on Garnett and Pierce don't need to be told to care about winning. I'd bank on him being smart enough to see that much. If he did, he'd be another passionate rebounder and defender, lesser version of Garnett to bolster the bench, and maybe even start if the opposition featured no bruisers.

[KingJay718]

Noah is a stud for pulling cards on his own team.

[Patrick27]

The thing is, if he had any sense he'd see that players on Garnett and Pierce don't need to be told to care about winning. I'd bank on him being smart enough to see that much. If he did, he'd be another passionate rebounder and defender, lesser version of Garnett to bolster the bench, and maybe even start if the opposition featured no bruisers.

You're absolutely right - the energy he brings could make the Celtics downright terrifying (if they aren't already). You're a Boston fan, and it sounds like you'd take the risk. If I were in your shoes, I'm not sure I'd want to tinker considering the success so far this season. To each his own, I suppose.

Whose minutes would he take? Send away Perkins or Baby? or just spot minutes that Pollard now plays? Personally, I see Noah as a spark player, and if he can bring the energy for 5-6 minutes, once per half, that's enough for me. That is, as long as he's not becoming a locker room problem while doing so...

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'd see him as a part-time starting center, taking almost all of Pollard's minutes, a little of Perk's pt and making Scalibrine disappear. Davis may just be the player traded to get him, but if he isn't I could see them both playing in spurts. Maybe stop playing the small line-up that has Posey at pf entirely.

[hwliuLAP]

Spurs should make a move at it to get Noah

[kumquat]

So there was a thread the other day on ISH where Noah was suspended and one of the posters put a bet down to say that Ben Wallace was the ring leader behind the suspension of Noah, I'd say he'd be pretty close to the mark.

Ben Wallace has been the worst thing that has happened to the Chicago franchise. He's getting to the point of being a moody *****. It wouldn't surprise me if the guy also undermined skiles and had a word in the ear of Gordon and Deng regarding their contracts.

[boozehound]

So there was a thread the other day on ISH where Noah was suspended and one of the posters put a bet down to say that Ben Wallace was the ring leader behind the suspension of Noah, I'd say he'd be pretty close to the mark.

Ben Wallace has been the worst thing that has happened to the Chicago franchise. He's getting to the point of being a moody *****. It wouldn't surprise me if the guy also undermined skiles and had a word in the ear of Gordon and Deng regarding their contracts.
the media reports I saw had quotes from adrian griffen. Sounds like he is the vocal veteran in the lockerroom. Wallace is reserved (mostly) and mopey

[Patrick27]

Spurs should make a move at it to get Noah

Heh, yeah. I'd love to see Noah try to tell Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili how to behave on the bench...

Better yet, send him to Utah. I want to see him and Sloan throw down. I'd take Sloan in 4 rounds.

No, wait! Send him to Sacramento and introduce him to Artest!

[i seen hippos]

Heh, yeah. I'd love to see Noah try to tell Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili how to behave on the bench...

Better yet, send him to Utah. I want to see him and Sloan throw down. I'd take Sloan in 4 rounds.

No, wait! Send him to Sacramento and introduce him to Artest!

Those guys wouldn't force Noah to speak up in the lockerroom, dip****.

Use your head before you post.

[Patrick27]

Those guys wouldn't force Noah to speak up in the lockerroom, dip****.

Use your head before you post.

Nobody *forces* Noah to speak up - it's just his personality. At least that's what I've observed. His whole persona and game is based around his energy and abrasiveness. From day one he hasn't acted like a prototypical rookie, and he's turned his whole team against him in Chicago.

Was the dip**** comment really necessary? :confusedshrug:

[SHEED_ gangsta]

ok for the record I'd just like to say BEN WALLACE SUCKS!! look at his guy's friggin numbers 4pts 7reb 1ast per game??? are you kidding me!!!! why is he a frachise player????? how could you possibly like Ben Wallace after the 04 season? yeah he used to be alright for like 1 season and even then he was a 1 demensional player that could'nt score. good for Noah for actually showing some heart homie needs to bounce from that **** team

[Patrick27]

ok for the record I'd just like to say BEN WALLACE SUCKS!! look at his guy's friggin numbers 4pts 7reb 1ast per game??? are you kidding me!!!! why is he a frachise player????? how could you possibly like Ben Wallace after the 04 season? yeah he used to be alright for like 1 season and even then he was a 1 demensional player that could'nt score. good for Noah for actually showing some heart homie needs to bounce from that **** team

I have a hard time believing Ben Wallace is the only one disturbed by Noah's outbursts. He's yelled at the coach, complained about teammates, and called his team out in the media after playing his first NBA game. He hasn't played half a season yet! If I were a GM, that's more than a red flag to me, that's a red bombardment of flags...

EDIT: Oh, thanks for reminding me about the constant tardiness too. I'd forgotten.

[Da KO King]

I dont think the issue was really the laughing on the bench. more likely, noah's track record of tardiness and coach fighting leaves him little room to criticize other players, esp as a rookie. cmon now, its not like hes been the answer in the middle for them, hell aaron grey has played better than him at times.
Laughing while your team is losing is not acceptable under any circumstances. It’s something you learn in Peewee ball that NEVER changes.

Past mistakes do not over-ride a guy’s ability to point out right and wrong. Jo Noah could have punched a coach in the face two days ago; he would still be 100% correct in raising a complaint about laughing on the bench.

Honestly, for Coach Boylan to not address it when it happened and Ben Wallets (best derogatory nickname in sports right now) wanting to fight over it says a lot about the Bulls’ shortcomings this season.

[boozehound]

[QUOTE=Da KO King]Laughing while your team is losing is not acceptable under any circumstances. It

[Patrick27]

Next time your team is losing, watch the bench the whole game. There will be laughter.


Im not saying its right, simply that its fairly hypocritical for a guy who just got into a physical confrontation with a coach ( a much bigger no no than laughing) to be trying to bust chops over proper behavior. Again, it has as much to do with how little respect he has garnered from his teammates this season (due to his arrogance, abrasiveness, whatever) as it does the actual incident. Hes not respected, so no one is really going to listen to him (they probably are fed up with his attitude and so forth)

Exactly. This would be much different if it were coming from Adrian Griffin or Joe Smith. It's too bad one of them didn't bring it up in a more tactful way. I have a hard time believing Noah does anything tactfully...

[Real Men Wear Green]

I have a hard time believing Ben Wallace is the only one disturbed by Noah's outbursts. He's yelled at the coach, complained about teammates, and called his team out in the media after playing his first NBA game. He hasn't played half a season yet! If I were a GM, that's more than a red flag to me, that's a red bombardment of flags...

EDIT: Oh, thanks for reminding me about the constant tardiness too. I'd forgotten.
Last year Wallace fought with Scott Skiles over something as stupid as his headband, does that matter now?

[dak121]

The fans will let their opinion known when the Bulls come back from the road trip. They'll cheer loudly for Noah, and they'll give Wallace the Marbury treatment. Soon after Reinsdorf (who only cares about money) will not like the fact that people will stop going to the games because of Wallace's presence.

Wallace will not finish this season on the Bulls. Either he'll be traded or more likely sent home.

He's done with the Bulls.

[Patrick27]

Last year Wallace fought with Scott Skiles over something as stupid as his headband, does that matter now?

I'm not sure how it's relevant. I don't recall the whole team getting together to have Wallace benched over his issues.

While Noah may have his heart in the right place trying to motivate and encourage his team (and may be correct in what he's saying), his own (well documented) issues have caused them to lose respect for him.

[Valliant13]

Heh, yeah. I'd love to see Noah try to tell Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili how to behave on the bench...

Better yet, send him to Utah. I want to see him and Sloan throw down. I'd take Sloan in 4 rounds.

No, wait! Send him to Sacramento and introduce him to Artest!

Sloan would love Noah.
He is picture perfect for hard nosed effort coach like Jerry.

[Patrick27]

Sloan would love Noah.
He is picture perfect for hard nosed effort coach like Jerry.

Noah's often tardy and got into a scuffle with his current coach. Are you sure about that?

[dak121]

I'm not sure how it's relevant. I don't recall the whole team getting together to have Wallace benched over his issues.

Wallace's contract and closeness to Reinsdorf (through his agent) has made Wallace untouchable. He literally has more power than the GM (Paxson) right now. If you piss Wallace off, he'll find a way to get rid of you.

Ask Scott Skiles.

[boozehound]

The fans will let their opinion known when the Bulls come back from the road trip. They'll cheer loudly for Noah, and they'll give Wallace the Marbury treatment. Soon after Reinsdorf (who only cares about money) will not like the fact that people will stop going to the games because of Wallace's presence.

Wallace will not finish this season on the Bulls. Either he'll be traded or more likely sent home.

He's done with the Bulls.
fans arent always in the right you know.:rolleyes:

especially when its regarding a situation reported through undisclosed sources and the media filter. The media is always looking for controversy. thats what sells

No ones taking wallace of your hands until the last year of his deal. you are stuck with him (or at least his salary) for another 2.5 years

[boozehound]

Wallace's contract and closeness to Reinsdorf (through his agent) has made Wallace untouchable. He literally has more power than the GM (Paxson) right now. If you piss Wallace off, he'll find a way to get rid of you.

Ask Scott Skiles.
sure didnt ahve anything to do with their miserable start and the terrible play from their "big" 3 (Kirk, ben, deng) :rolleyes:

get some perspective

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm not sure how it's relevant. I don't recall the whole team getting together to have Wallace benched over his issues.
I mention it because people talk about Noah getting into it with Coaches. In that regard, how is Wallace any better?

[DeuceWallaces]

You can't argue with Wallace's record (Carisle, Brown, Flip, Skiles), but Bulls fas are trying to blame the season on him when he is such a small part of their terribleness.

[saKf]

I'm with Noah on this one.

I can't believe he's the only one who's pissed about players not caring during a loss.

[boozehound]

I mention it because people talk about Noah getting into it with Coaches. In that regard, how is Wallace any better?
because he still has the respect of his teammates? Look we can speculate all we want, but we are really overblowing a undisclosed source media report about a lockeroom altercation. WE cant really know what goes on, but it is clear that his teammates think Noah was way out of line last week. Its stupid to present yourself as a vocal leader in the lockerroom over a really small issue right after your teammates asked the coaching staff to discipline you. Noah's passion may be a great benefit on the court, but it also leads him to make stupid decisions.

[boozehound]

I'm with Noah on this one.

I can't believe he's the only one who's pissed about players not caring during a loss.
57-52 at the half, not nearly the blowout it turned into after noah ruined the teams energy for the second half. laughing and not caring are two entirely different things. What if they laughed cause the other team airballed a layup, or some other oncourt situation that was relatively light hearted?

[wizzla11]

Next time your team is losing, watch the bench the whole game. There will be laughter.


Im not saying its right, simply that its fairly hypocritical for a guy who just got into a physical confrontation with a coach ( a much bigger no no than laughing) to be trying to bust chops over proper behavior. Again, it has as much to do with how little respect he has garnered from his teammates this season (due to his arrogance, abrasiveness, whatever) as it does the actual incident. Hes not respected, so no one is really going to listen to him (they probably are fed up with his attitude and so forth)

If there is laughter it's usually from the guys that don't play much (10-12).
In college we lost a game and two guys that never played (we dressed 15 guys) were laughing between themselves for most of the second half. out next practice we ran suicides for 45 minutes straight as a team then to stop we had to run a suicide under 30 and whom ever finished 1ts could stop but you had to be under 30 seconds. it ended up being almost 1h and a 1/2 of running. Funny thing was this was after our 1st and only loss and was the last game of the season (before playoffs)

[Real Men Wear Green]

because he still has the respect of his teammates? Look we can speculate all we want, but we are really overblowing a undisclosed source media report about a lockeroom altercation. WE cant really know what goes on, but it is clear that his teammates think Noah was way out of line last week. Its stupid to present yourself as a vocal leader in the lockerroom over a really small issue right after your teammates asked the coaching staff to discipline you. Noah's passion may be a great benefit on the court, but it also leads him to make stupid decisions.
I can't be completely sure of this, but I suspect Wallace getting more respect from the team has much to do with him being an All-Star, DPoY, and World Champion while Noah is a rookie that most of the players don't want to hear telling them how to do their jobs. It's a case of past accomplishments and reputation getting a guy more slack. That does not, however, make Wallace more right.

[starface]

I think people are missing the real issue here. Ben Wallace is jealous that Noah now has the best hair on the team.

[boozehound]

Nick(Tampa): Coach For the first time in a long time Im confused about the Bulls. Is it fair for Wallace to pick and choose when he wants to be a leader? He turned down being team captain. If Noah wants to win as bad as he says he does. . . does it make sense that he is routinely late, and forgets plays? I need your insight.

SportsNation David Thorpe: (12:04 PM ET ) Noah has made a few mistakes, but is part of the solution without question. Wallace is not. Period.


from the david thorpe chat

[Da KO King]

I'm with Noah on this one.

I can't believe he's the only one who's pissed about players not caring during a loss.
SAKF would you or would you not bench one of kids if he was laughing on the bench during a game your squad is losing?

I'm pretty sure I know your answer already. :)

[dak121]

sure didnt ahve anything to do with their miserable start and the terrible play from their "big" 3 (Kirk, ben, deng) :rolleyes:

get some perspective

None of those 3 admitted that they weren't playing hard for Skiles. Only Wallace came out and said that. And Wallace was the guy that went to Reinsdorf with his agent to "consult" about Skiles days before the firing. None of those 3 had anything to do with that.

And for as bad as Hinrich has been, he doesn't come close to Wallace. The guy is having the worst offensive year for a big man in the history of the NBA. And his defense is pathetic too.

Simply put, he is the biggest problem with the team and he has to go today. He is a coach-killing cancer that has more power than anyone in the organization not named Reinsdorf. It's time for the Chairman to step in get him out of there.

[Patrick27]

SAKF would you or would you not bench one of kids if he was laughing on the bench during a game your squad is losing?

I'm pretty sure I know your answer already. :)

I know this wasn't posed to me, but I'd think it depends on what the players are laughing about. If they're showing a disregard for the game -while winning or losing- then it's a problem. If they're just staying loose, but still paying attention to the game, I'd think it's less of a big deal. If they're laughing at Noah because they hate him, then I'd tread carefully because the team is about to implode.

Does anyone actually know who or what they were laughing about? Or who was laughing?

[JohnR]

You can't argue with Wallace's record (Carisle, Brown, Flip, Skiles), but Bulls fas are trying to blame the season on him when he is such a small part of their terribleness.

Are you kidding me? Ben Wallace is the primary reason the Bulls are terrible.

First, he's awful on the court, clearly among the worst centers in the NBA this year. Zero offense, spotty defense, doesn't even rebound particularly well.

Second, he's awful off the court, quitting on Scott Skiles so as to get Skiles fired, organizing the players in their disgraceful punishment of Noah (who the heck are this year's Bulls to point fingers at anybody?), laughing his butt off as the team gets destroyed.

On a young team with meek personalities, the guy who was signed to be the team's role model, is a dog without a collar.

Yesterday, Noah busted his ass for 12 points, 11 rebounds. Wallace jogged to 4 points, 3 boards. And laughed.

In the 20 years that I have watched the Bulls, nobody ever brought down a squad like Wallace is doing this year.

[boozehound]

And for as bad as Hinrich has been, he doesn't come close to Wallace. The guy is having the worst offensive year for a big man in the history of the NBA.

did you follow him before you signed him? He has always been a terrible baller (apparently he has small hands and can barely palm the ball). Now that hes lost some of his athletic ability, a 6'7" (ive heard hes really closer to 6'6") guy playing the 5 is going to suck offensively. his only offense was on alleys, blown assignments, and putbacks. Hes probably shorter than the average sf in the nba today. I dont doubt he had a role, but its pretty clear as an outsider he is only one part of the problem (and skiles approach to the players, not just wallace, seems to have been a part of it. Just cause they havent comeout and said it doesnt mean they hadnt tuned his aggressive barfight provoking style ass out).

[Qwyjibo]

Joakim Noah for Andrea Bargnani?

- Bargnani is quiet and seemingly doesn't give a damn about anything. Perfect fit alongside guys who will laugh after losses.

- Noah is fiery but Sam Mitchell would bodyslam him in an instant if he crosses the line.

EDIT: Stupid typo... brain not working too well.

[Real Men Wear Green]

JBargnani is quiet and seemingly doesn't give a damn about anything. Perfect fit alongside guys who will laugh after wins.
It's so strange to see Raptor fans say the kind of things I did about Bargnani after all the venom spewed in my direction for saying them.

[Valliant13]

Noah's often tardy and got into a scuffle with his current coach. Are you sure about that?

Ah, I did not know about the lateness. Yeah, that would go over poorly.

[picc84]

How could anyone see how much of a duuchebag Noah was before he got into the nba and not anticipate this? I mean, i'm surprised it took THIS long.

Not to say he's wrong about being miffed guys are laughing on the bench, but as a rookie guys dont take well to you telling them about it, right or wrong. If it wasn't this, it would have been something else, i guarantee you. Thats Noah for you.

[brwnman]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bQ3y5hTHuP4

okay maybe everybody missed this on the first page - please

try turning off your sound and then watch...

[boozehound]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bQ3y5hTHuP4

okay maybe everybody missed this on the first page - please

try turning off your sound and then watch...
yeah I caught it. What a goof. I wonder how he skanks

[dak121]

Not to say he's wrong about being miffed guys are laughing on the bench, but as a rookie guys dont take well to you telling them about it, right or wrong. If it wasn't this, it would have been something else, i guarantee you. Thats Noah for you.

Seeing that these are the same bums that got their coach fired and are currently a bottom of the barrel team in the East they should take the criticism well.

Unlike the 'great guys' that Paxson seems to love so much, Noah actually gives a damn and is willing to say something about it.

**** this team.

[JohnR]

I don't care if the guy fancies 6 year old boys in his spare time. The question is, does he help the Bulls win on the basketball court?

On that score, Noah has been OK -- several games this year he has come off the bench, played well defensively, grabbed some boards, added energy, done what a big role player is supposed to do. Maybe he's supposed to be better than a role player as a lottery pick, but at least he's been a positive.

Energy off the bench is always useful, but even better when team that plays Wallace and Tyrus.

[BBallBeatwriter]

Really, Noah needs to shut his mouth. It's not as if he was asked to be a vocal leader of the team, like Brandon Roy was. What gives him any right to cross a vet like Wallace? Is it just me, or does Noah seem to be wayyy too proud and arrogant. He didn't even want to play in Chicago in the first place. It's not like he's out on the floor contributing to the Bulls' effort that often.

[boozehound]

Seeing that these are the same bums that got their coach fired and are currently a bottom of the barrel team in the East they should take the criticism well.

Unlike the 'great guys' that Paxson seems to love so much, Noah actually gives a damn and is willing to say something about it.

**** this team.
something tells me that you loved all of these exact same bums last year. Oh the beloved baby bulls could do no wrong.

[mjbulls23]

Noah's often tardy and got into a scuffle with his current coach. Are you sure about that?


ya but Jerry Sloan doesn't tolerate stuff like that plus he is a tough minded coach himself and all the Jazz players care about winning.... With Sloan, all his players are like him in a way............ I mean look at the Bulls now..... they have a new temporary coach for the rest of this season and they're treating him like a damn substitute teacher :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Kobe24]

Noah is upset that players laugh on the bench and everybody makes it seem like he's the bad guy. Shame on your Noah!

[Doctor Zizmor]

Bulletproof Ben Wallets

[JohnR]

This is why people who haven't watched more than 10 minutes of a Bulls game don't belong in this thread.

What gives him any right to cross the biggest disgrace in Chicago Bulls history is what you meant.

Exactly. I can't believe that a Bulls fan who watches the team regularly, would ever support Ben Wallace on anything. Maybe that fan also doesn't like Noah and says they are both at fault, that I could see. But taking Wallace's side? Can't be a Bulls fan, because the guy is just murdering our team.

I mean, would any Knicks fan pound the table and defend Eddie Curry?

[boozehound]

Pistons/Ohio St. fans are the only ones who side with Wallace.
what is the OSU connection?

[DieHardBullsFan]

Exactly. I can't believe that a Bulls fan who watches the team regularly, would ever support Ben Wallace on anything. Maybe that fan also doesn't like Noah and says they are both at fault, that I could see. But taking Wallace's side? Can't be a Bulls fan, because the guy is just murdering our team.

I mean, would any Knicks fan pound the table and defend Eddie Curry?

I agree...Wallace has done nothing with us..once again...the Bulls thought he would come in bring defense and leadership hahah leadership??

I like Noah but I dont defend him in this situation....even though his heart and passion is in the right place...hes still a rookie...he needs to shut up and play basketball and not call your team out (twice this year) and fight with your coach....I wouldnt be shocked if hes involved in a trade at the deadline...due to all the stuff hes done and what the bulls are not telling us...I hope they dont get rid of him...because Noah is going to be good with more playing time...but he needs to control himself and shut the *uck up....

[boozehound]

I agree...Wallace has done nothing with us..once again...the Bulls thought he would come in bring defense and leadership hahah leadership??

I like Noah but I dont defend him in this situation....even though his heart and passion is in the right place...hes still a rookie...he needs to shut up and play basketball and not call your team out (twice this year) and fight with your coach....I wouldnt be shocked if hes involved in a trade at the deadline...due to all the stuff hes done and what the bulls are not telling us...I hope they dont get rid of him...because Noah is going to be good with more playing time...but he needs to control himself and shut the *uck up....
a good reasonable post from a bulls fan! Bravo, its been a couple of pages

[boozehound]

Not hard to figure out.
lets see. Virginia Commonwealth...... Most Pistons fans arent OSU fans (though I am sure some are)..... Still dont see it

Oh and I like your location

[phoenix_bladen]

trade ben wallace to the knicks for zach randolph

[boozehound]

Not even close. Again, most 10 year olds could figure this out.

How sad.
wow you really are a dick. There has been little to no Noah hate in this thread, other than saying that he is cocky and arrogant (which he clearly is)

[Real Men Wear Green]

Gators. Buckeyes. National Championship. Think on it.

[Da KO King]

Anyone that think Jo Noah was in the wrong should go speak to whatever basketball coach they know.

Go ask how they would treat their bench players laughing during a game they were losing.

Guarantee you hear one of two responses:

a - nip it in the bud right there; whoever was responsible is benched for the rest of the game

b - don’t say anything there and make them run an extremely high amount of suicides the following day and let them know that laughing during a loss will not be tolerated.

[bdreason]

Ben Wallets is single handedly destroying the future of that organization.

[dak121]

something tells me that you loved all of these exact same bums last year. Oh the beloved baby bulls could do no wrong.

They won 49 games last year and actually played like they gave a damn. This year they laugh on the bench while getting blown out by 20 points every other night.

How would anyone respond to seeing their team becoming a disgrace? I'm not going to sit here and say that all is well and stick with them to the end. Especially when they're getting paid millions of dollars.

Screw them.

[U got Served]

Noah is a rookie but he was acting like a veteran. Players shouldn't be laughing if your team is loosing. It doesn't matter who's a rookie and who's not. If Wallace thinks he's the man of the house for being the one with the ring HE NEEDS TO ACT LIKE BIG BEN ON THE COURT! NOT ON THE LOCKER ROOM!

[hito da god]

I don't see how joakim is in the wrong here. If Ur team is playing with no heart and laughing it up on the bench, U address it. No questions asked, its not acceptable behavior as a basketball player and a competitor. He is used to being a leader, and nobody said anything about it so he stepped up as a leader and said what needed to be said. I'm assuming many of U have never played competitive basketball before from a lot of the responses. Or if U did, it probably wasn't at a high level. U have to respect him for doing what he did.

Now, I understand he's a rookie and he has to know his role as one, but I'll be damned if I'm playing the game I love and my teammates are just going through the motions, laughing up a storm on the bench. U expect me to keep my mouth shut? To allow that to keep on going? Its been a frustrating season for the bulls, joakim is trying to light a much needed fire under their asses. Rookie or not, something needed to be said. I bet if this was lebron yelling at his teammates his rookie season it would all be fine and dandy to yall, but I guess that's just how it goes.

*in before "joakim is not lebron"

[boozehound]

i love how everyone is acting like players on the bench laughing while there team is losing is sooo uncommon in the nba. where was the thread about what a little ***** noah is for physically confronting a coach. Yeah, thats not a more important issue to most coaches than laughing on the bench :rolleyes:

[Da KO King]

i love how everyone is acting like players on the bench laughing while there team is losing is sooo uncommon in the nba. where was the thread about what a little ***** noah is for physically confronting a coach. Yeah, thats not a more important issue to most coaches than laughing on the bench :rolleyes:
Where did you get the story about a physical confrontation? Everything I read hinted at a shouting match.

[boozehound]

hmmn, ill look for it. In the meantime, here is what noah says Joakim Noah said whoever leaked a story about his Tuesday confrontation with Ben Wallace in the Bulls' locker room is dividing the team. Noah, speaking on WSCR-AM (670), denied a confrontation took place. (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/743422,noah011608.article)

[Da KO King]

From the link you provided


Noah's still upset that his teammates extended his one-game benching to two games after his verbal altercation with assistant coach Ron Adams last Friday in Philadelphia. Wallace was one of the players who called for the meeting to vote on extending Noah's penalty.

[Dbrog]

They won 49 games last year and actually played like they gave a damn. This year they laugh on the bench while getting blown out by 20 points every other night.

How would anyone respond to seeing their team becoming a disgrace? I'm not going to sit here and say that all is well and stick with them to the end. Especially when they're getting paid millions of dollars.

Screw them.

What's even more sad is this bulls team was built with players who were champions or did very well in college. It is very interesting that they seem to have forgotten their former "winning attitudes."

[Jimmy2k8]

Noah walked into the room loudly complaining about Bulls players laughing on the bench, then Wallace confronted Noah, and Luol Deng had to step in and pull them apart, the witnesses said.


What the hell? What's there to laugh about? That your team was down by a bunch?

I 100% understand Noah.

[mlh1981]

His statline this year is a joke:


Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

07-08 CHI 34 34 32.8 0.330 0.000 0.471 3.7 5.2 8.9 2.0 1.4 1.7 0.94 1.80 4.4

He has to still be hurting somewhat, because there is NO way that a player with his minutes could simply be this bad. Noone mails it in THAT much.

[Celibacy4Life]

LMAO, I LOVE the Ben 'Wallets' nickname. Hilarious.

[BIZARRO]

:oldlol: Ben Wallets. Classic.


Haha,,I don't come up with much on this board, but yeah Ben WALLET is the best thing I ever came up with,,,,

Just came one day when I was pissed at him as usual. Then I made a thread about it. Glad it has stuck.

BTW, **** him. Noah is the BEST for standing up to that piece of trash.

[Loki]

:roll: I'm loving Ben's new "Wallets" nickname. Cracks me up every time

:oldlol:

Me too. But was this his nickname for a while now? I just noticed it in the first post in this topic and was like "wow, this caught on quickly" when the next few posts all referred to him by the "Wallets" moniker. :oldlol:

[Mathius]

I don't understand how anyone sides with Noah on this.

Yes, ok, maybe he has a valid point on the issue, but this is hardly the only time in NBA history that this has happened. It happens all the time.

And the real issue here is, his methods. You're a rookie. You've done squat in this league. Your the one paying his dues, putting up with all the degrading things they do to rookies. And you come in and start a confrontation with your teammates? And hasn't he allegedly been suspended already twice this season?

This kid is coming into the league and making a name for himself, but its not on the court where it should be.

Good players lead by example. They don't start crap with teammates and complain that the team is laughing instead of winning when they haven't even proven they have what it takes to win.

Noah has been a joke since day one in the league. And if you disagree with that, look no further than his draft day photos.

If there's any truth to any of this, he's going to find himself out of the league quickly.

Mathius

[boozehound]

Where did you get the story about a physical confrontation? Everything I read hinted at a shouting match.
yes it just says confrontation. perhaps I misread or picked it up from another post. Regardless, they call the wallace noah thing a confrontation as well

[BIZARRO]

yes it just says confrontation. perhaps I misread or picked it up from another post. Regardless, they call the wallace noah thing a confrontation as well


Here is an article which rips on "Big Bum":

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariottiweb/743064,011608mariottiweb.article


Mariotti is a tool, but he sometimes hits the nail on the head like with this article about the moronic Wallet.

[JPR]

Ben Wallace is a cancer, nuff said.

[liverandonions]

Ben Wallace has no pride to be playing the way he is.

[w00terz]

i love how everyone is acting like players on the bench laughing while there team is losing is sooo uncommon in the nba. where was the thread about what a little ***** noah is for physically confronting a coach. Yeah, thats not a more important issue to most coaches than laughing on the bench :rolleyes:

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, however, if I read correctly, you're an idiot. This isn't solely about laughing on the bench, it's the PRINCIPLE of it. The Bulls played with heart last year and ended the year with a solid record. This year, not only are they playing like complete sh*t and losing games, they're laughing it up. Again, Noah confronting the coach has nothing to do with "laughing on the bench when you lose," it is the PRINCIPLE of doing it while consistently losing. Yes, Noah is a rookie and hasn't paid his dues, however, rookie or not, you don't laugh it up especially when you're having a season like the Bulls are having. Noah is doing what is right for the TEAM, while Big Ben Wallets is sitting back laughing it up with all money, what a f*cking liability.

[catzhernandez]

Lmao...:oldlol:
Yeah, Balkman is gonna be sixth man of the year with 3 and 3.

[Mathius]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, however, if I read correctly, you're an idiot. This isn't solely about laughing on the bench, it's the PRINCIPLE of it. The Bulls played with heart last year and ended the year with a solid record. This year, not only are they playing like complete sh*t and losing games, they're laughing it up. Again, Noah confronting the coach has nothing to do with "laughing on the bench when you lose," it is the PRINCIPLE of doing it while consistently losing. Yes, Noah is a rookie and hasn't paid his dues, however, rookie or not, you don't laugh it up especially when you're having a season like the Bulls are having. Noah is doing what is right for the TEAM, while Big Ben Wallets is sitting back laughing it up with all money, what a f*cking liability.

No, I think its you guys who are missing the point. Whether Noah is right or not, you don't go about fixing things by starting confrontations with your teammates, or getting suspended, or getting into it with your coach. Those are not the correct way of doing things, period.

The fact that Noah is a rookie makes it that much worse. Here is a guy who has done nothing in this league to prove he is a winner, and he has the audacity to rail into his teammates for having a good time when they're not winning.

What about a team like Seattle and Minnesota? Are they supposed to hang their heads in shame all year long and not have a moment of laughter because their record is so awful?

Mathius

[BigJake]

What i'd do to see:

http://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/standalone/gq/feature/1106/athletes/00016f.jpg


VS

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/ap_joakim_noah_070629_ms.jpg

ROFLMFAO :bowdown: :applause: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol:
That looks like Sabertooth vs. Bozo The Clown

[boozehound]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, however, if I read correctly, you're an idiot. This isn't solely about laughing on the bench, it's the PRINCIPLE of it. The Bulls played with heart last year and ended the year with a solid record. This year, not only are they playing like complete sh*t and losing games, they're laughing it up. Again, Noah confronting the coach has nothing to do with "laughing on the bench when you lose," it is the PRINCIPLE of doing it while consistently losing. Yes, Noah is a rookie and hasn't paid his dues, however, rookie or not, you don't laugh it up especially when you're having a season like the Bulls are having. Noah is doing what is right for the TEAM, while Big Ben Wallets is sitting back laughing it up with all money, what a f*cking liability.
first off, noah isnt doing ****. second when you have been one of the most disruptive memebrs of the team (which seems to be the case based on media reports, etc), no one is going to take it well when you try and lead (esp. since you arent doing it by example). Wallace may suck, I never denied that. My point was simply that laughing on the bench of the losing team happens every week in the nba, and noah's brief history in the nba puts him about as far from a team leader as you can be. grow up you homers. If you took all of bens mins and split them between noah and thomas (or aaron or whatever), you would still have the same crappy record and be the worst team in the central.

[boozehound]

so if the coach doesnt think its a big deal, maybe you homers should relax?



Coach Jim Boylan didn't think the issue of players laughing on the bench late in Tuesday's ugly loss to Orlando merited much attention. "I don't that it's indicative of the way the guys feel about the game," Boylan said. "We have guys in the locker room who really care. There are moments on the bench too when they're looking really down. In the locker room after the game, they're quiet, they're upset." Arlington Heights Daily Herald

Chris Duhon gave some additional insight into Joakim Noah's rant against assistant coach Ron Adams last week and Jim Boylan's reaction to it. "As soon as it happened, Jim wanted him gone for the whole trip," Duhon said Wednesday during an appearance on WMVP 1000-AM. "When it happened, Jim was really upset and just wanted him to get on a plane then and there and go back to Chicago." Arlington Heights Daily Herald

Despite reports in two newspapers that Ben Wallace and rookie Joakim Noah had to be separated after exchanging words in the locker room following a loss in Orlando, the Bulls maintain there was no altercation or argument. ''Maybe y'all messed it up,'' Wallace said to reporters before the game. ''Go ask Joakim. I know I'm not gonna talk about it because I don't have anything to say about it.'' Chicago Sun-Times

Bulls coach Jim Boylan had plenty to say. ''I know all about it, and there was no argument,'' he said. ''I don't know why it was reported that way. A couple of things were said, but there was no confrontation. There was no one going after each other. There were no angry words. ''I spoke to both guys together this morning. They laughed about it. They can't believe that it was reported like that. I find it disappointing that it's put in the paper without really being substantiated in any way and to have it said by someone. I don't think that's fair.'' Chicago Sun-Times

Guard Chris Duhon said the other players rallied around Noah and labeled the reports ''a lot of false accusations.'' ''After the suspensions, they were trying to make Joakim seem like a bad guy, like he was tearing apart this team,'' Duhon said. ''He's not. We enjoy his energy. He's a great kid. There's times where he has too much energy and needs to take a step back, but other than that, we love him." Chicago Sun-Times


http://insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml

[Patrick27]

Is Ben Wallace wrong for laughing during a close (but slightly behind) game is going on? Yes - 5 badness points

Has Wallace underperformed this year? Yes - 10 badness points

Is Noah wrong for complaining loudly in the lockerroom? (i.e. addressing the problem in the most confrontational way possible) Yes - 3 badness points

Is Noah a rookie who hasn't paid his dues yet or performed at a level deserving shaming rights? Yes - 2 badness points

Is Noah wrong for constant tardiness? Yes - 15 badness points

Is Noah wrong for calling out his teammates after his first NBA game? Yes - 5 badness points

Is Noah wrong for the verbal confrontation with an assistant coach? Yes - 20 badness points.

Wallace - 15 badness points
Noah - 45 badness points

Both players are bringing their team down, but I think Noah's collective actions are causing much bigger problems. Also, you can't blame Wallace for signing a big contract - that's the GM's fault. This instance is probably more Wallace's fault than Noah's fault, but the kid has NO IDEA how to be appropriate with coaches, teammates, or the media. Shoving a sock in it is recommended.

[JPR]

Noah isn't bringing the team down one iota. it all stems from big bum. he is what has brought this team down and continues to do so. all noah is doing is bringing down Big Bum's fraudulent team and i'm glad that he is doing so. noah is a bad ass rookie. he doesn't get enough PT but if he did, he could easily get a double double every night plus you gotta love Noah's battle crys. right now, this team just isn't trying very hard because they look at Big Bum and do what he is doing. that's the whole problem and that's why Big Bum is a cancer. there's nothing wrong wtih the other guys when you look at the magnitude of ****edupness that is Ben Wallace.

[boozehound]

Noah isn't bringing the team down one iota. it all stems from big bum. he is what has brought this team down and continues to do so. all noah is doing is bringing down Big Bum's fraudulent team and i'm glad that he is doing so. noah is a bad ass rookie. he doesn't get enough PT but if he did, he could easily get a double double every night plus you gotta love Noah's battle crys. right now, this team just isn't trying very hard because they look at Big Bum and do what he is doing. that's the whole problem and that's why Big Bum is a cancer. there's nothing wrong wtih the other guys when you look at the magnitude of ****edupness that is Ben Wallace.
nice excuses. so the "professional" athletes who are all well past their rookie season on the bulls see big ben sucking it up and say hey why dont I suck it up as well? Of course hes an easy scapegoat, he makes retarded money and is an undersized hustle guy past his prime. To blame all the bulls problems on him is obviously a stupid and childish way to approach it.

[ForceOfNature]

Just to add to the bulls problems. Wonderful.
Quick photoshop for ya rawimpact
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c245/JakeN7/haha.jpg

That's great haha! :applause:

[JPR]

nice excuses. so the "professional" athletes who are all well past their rookie season on the bulls see big ben sucking it up and say hey why dont I suck it up as well? Of course hes an easy scapegoat, he makes retarded money and is an undersized hustle guy past his prime. To blame all the bulls problems on him is obviously a stupid and childish way to approach it.

then you just don't know basketball or the concept of a leader.

[Patrick27]

Noah isn't bringing the team down one iota. it all stems from big bum. he is what has brought this team down and continues to do so. all noah is doing is bringing down Big Bum's fraudulent team and i'm glad that he is doing so. noah is a bad ass rookie. he doesn't get enough PT but if he did, he could easily get a double double every night plus you gotta love Noah's battle crys. right now, this team just isn't trying very hard because they look at Big Bum and do what he is doing. that's the whole problem and that's why Big Bum is a cancer. there's nothing wrong wtih the other guys when you look at the magnitude of ****edupness that is Ben Wallace.

While the +/- stat agrees with you that Noah is outplaying Wallace, it seems that Gordon and Hinrich are a bigger problem on the court this season. If you want to place blame, I can assure you it doesn't all stem from Wallace:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22007&split=9&team=Bulls

However, I think Noah has been the biggest off-the-court problem for them this season, and based on this thread there are quite a few that agree with me.

[Patrick27]

then you just don't know basketball or the concept of a leader.

Anyone who understands that there are 5 teammates on the court at once can understand that the problems are more than Wallace.

Anyone who has noticed that Noah has conflicted with both his coach and teammate understands that Noah is the problem here. Wallace isn't fighting with anyone else, and nobody on the Bulls is speaking up for Wallace to sit out games. Can't say that for Noah.

[boozehound]

While the +/- stat agrees with you that Noah is outplaying Wallace, it seems that Gordon and Hinrich are a bigger problem on the court this season. If you want to place blame, I can assure you it doesn't all stem from Wallace:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22007&split=9&team=Bulls

However, I think Noah has been the biggest off-the-court problem for them this season, and based on this thread there are quite a few that agree with me.
are you sure? Im gettingnoah at +7.10 (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joakim_noah/index.html) and wallace at +12.91 (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_wallace/) for the EFF stat.

[boozehound]

then you just don't know basketball or the concept of a leader.
newsflash buddy. Ben has NEVER been a leader. if your front office thought thats what they were getting from him, then they are as stupid as the homer fans littering this thread. He quit on saunders during the post-season right before you gave him the contract. What in the world ever made you think hed be a leader on the team? He can be a lockerroom enforcer type, but he was never a leader

[Patrick27]

are you sure? Im gettingnoah at +7.10 (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joakim_noah/index.html) and wallace at +12.91 (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_wallace/) for the EFF stat.

Hmm... Don't see where you're getting that number. My common sense is telling me that Wallace hasn't been winning games this season.

My link is based on individual game +/- for this whole season. Maybe yours is a different timeframe?

[boozehound]

Hmm... Don't see where you're getting that number. My common sense is telling me that Wallace hasn't been winning games this season.

My link is based on individual game +/- for this whole season. Maybe yours is a different timeframe?
yeah, I dont really know. Its the eff stat from the nba players page (in the little stat box to the right of the picture). Supposed to be like PER maybe? I havent looked at the game +/-

[JPR]

the idea is ben wallace can lead by example like he did with the Pistons when he won a ring. blaming the young bulls and not ben wallace is like blaming soldiers on a battlefield who get ambushed and killed because their general led them there. ben wallace isn't doing anything but collecting checks. he is a multiple defensive player of the year award winner, all star, and world champion. he has a resume and accolades like nobody on the Bulls roster and like nobody in the NBA. by ben wallace, the veteran leader, giving 20% it naturally rubs off on the other players.

you haters can say what you want but the chicago papers have it right just like i do. big bum is a joke and the reason as to why this team is 2 games outside of a playoff spot instead of a top 4 seed. 90% of bull fans want ben wallace gone. there's a reason for that and i just told you what it is. bull fans like the other players on the roster because they are young and have shown progress unlike the old fart big bum.

[Patrick27]

the idea is ben wallace can lead by example like he did with the Pistons when he won a ring. blaming the young bulls and not ben wallace is like blaming soldiers on a battlefield who get ambushed and killed because their general led them there. ben wallace isn't doing anything but collecting checks. he is a multiple defensive player of the year award winner, all star, and world champion. he has a resume and accolades like nobody on the Bulls roster and like nobody in the NBA. by ben wallace, the veteran leader, giving 20% it naturally rubs off on the other players.

you haters can say what you want but the chicago papers have it right just like i do. big bum is a joke and the reason as to why this team is 2 games outside of a playoff spot instead of a top 4 seed. 90% of bull fans want ben wallace gone. there's a reason for that and i just told you what it is. bull fans like the other players on the roster because they are young and have shown progress unlike the old fart big bum.

Are you hating on Shaq for killing the Heat too? He's old. Miami and Chicago are paying for prior results. Don't blame the players because they aged, blame your front office for expecting them to turn back the clock.

[DatZNasty]

15,500,000 4ppg 8rpg 33%FG 47%ft 34 minutes per game

Can't be stressed enough, and Ben has been a diva since he got to Chicago. Just because he is a vet and the one initiating meetings to have Noah's suspension extended doesn't mean he can't be in the wrong. Admitting you gave up on your last coach while asking to have him fired, pushing to get other teammates disciplined, laughing and playing pattycakes on the bench while down 30 in a game you got 4/3 in, hardly a shining example of leadership.

[Patrick27]

Can't be stressed enough, and Ben has been a diva since he got to Chicago. Just because he is a vet and the one initiating meetings to have Noah's suspension extended doesn't mean he can't be in the wrong. Admitting you gave up on your last coach while asking to have him fired, pushing to get other teammates disciplined, laughing and playing pattycakes on the bench while down 30 in a game you got 4/3 in, hardly a shining example of leadership.

Nobody's arguing that he's a good leader. Noah and Wallace are both terrible leaders. Neither one should even pretend to be. The problem is, while Wallace can be successful as a non-leader, I don't think Noah will ever listen to anybody except himself.

[Iverson3]

Bulls signing Ben Wallace was one of the biggest mistakes in their franchise history.