Amare Stoudemire is WAYYYYY overrated (thread from 2008)

[The GM]

This guy is a product of steve nash just like Q-Rich was, and as soon Richardson left Nash look where his career went, down the tube. Amare doesn't have a consistant jumpshot to speak of, Nash basically gives him layups and dunks on every play off the pick N roll and has proven he can't create his own shot for his life. He's a decent free-throw shooter and should be a better rebounder. Now i do agree he is one of the best finishers in the game but i hear people calling him a top 15 player and i think that's total bs. I don't know how one can argue he's even in the same league as Duncan, Yao, KG, & Dirk as a dominant big man in the league. At this point i'd rather have Duncan, KG, Yao, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Chris Bosh all over Amare. We'll see in a few years when Nash retires how good Amare is but if he doesn't step it up and work in his game a bit he will come back down to reality, the potential is there but i think people give him way to much credit.

[ForceOfNature]

Amare Stoudemire was rookie of the year, and averaging 20+ points per game before Nash was even there.

[Allstar24]

You're an idiot. Amare played well before Nash came to Phoenix.

[The GM]

You're an idiot. Amare played well before Nash came to Phoenix.

he played 55 games the year before nash came there, granted he average 20 a game but c'mon 55 games doesn't account for anything and he average 13the year before that and thats playing well??

[InnateJ]

13.5/9 as a rookie
20/9 as a sophomore

No Nash

You're dead wrong. Amare has a nice midrange shot. If you bothered to watch him after his surgery, you would see that he made significant improvements there. According to 82games.com, he attempts a jumpshot 50% of the time and shoots it at 45% eFG. Last season, he attempted a jumpshot 45% of the time and shot at 44% eFG. For comparisons sake, those numbers are right there with KG, TD and may be even better.

[ForceOfNature]

he played 55 games the year before nash came there, granted he average 20 a game but c'mon 55 games doesn't account for anything and he average 13the year before that and thats playing well??

55 games doesn't account for anything? It shows that he averaged 20+ points while being injured during the year! And he averaged 13 during his ROOKIE year. Generally, players don't play as well in their rookie year compared to their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th years.

[Kblaze8855]

This guy is a product of steve nash just like Q-Rich was

In 2004 when Amare averaged 24/9, 23/9, and 26/11 in the final 3 months with Nash in Dallas...was his spirit in phoenix feeding him in the post?

Is Nashs spirit availiable for the Bulls? How much PT would it expect?

[The GM]

13.5/9 as a rookie
20/9 as a sophomore

No Nash

You're dead wrong. Amare has a nice midrange shot. If you bothered to watch him after his surgery, you would see that he made significant improvements there. According to 82games.com, he attempts a jumpshot 50% of the time and shoots it at 45% eFG. Last season, he attempted a jumpshot 45% of the time and shot at 44% eFG. For comparisons sake, those numbers are right there with KG, TD and may be even better.

actually i have bothered to watch him, his jimmy is okay nothing special and he doesn't have damn near the impact of TD or KG

[InnateJ]

actually i have bothered to watch him, his jimmy is okay nothing special and he doesn't have damn near the impact of TD or KG

No he doesnt have the impact of TD or KG but you criticized his jumpshot when in fact, among big men, its one of the better ones in the league.

[The GM]

No he doesnt have the impact of TD or KG but you criticized his jumpshot when in fact, its one of the better ones in the league.

There are alot of big men that have better jump shots then amare (sheed, kg, duncan, bosh, dirk, brand(when playing) just to name a few

[e20dyl4n]

as much as i dislike the suns and amare. he is a BEAST

[dejordan]

In 2004 when Amare averaged 24/9, 23/9, and 26/11 in the final 3 months with Nash in Dallas...was his spirit in phoenix feeding him in the post?

Is Nashs spirit availiable for the Bulls? How much PT would it expect?
forget it. we don't have the karmic cap space to sign nash's spirit. we could defintely get luke ridnoir's spirit for a karmic bargain though. so that's something to consider.

here's a question: would ty thomas look like a potential all-star if he played with steve nash (or kidd)?

[allball]

dumb thread. not like all he does is catch alley oops. he can create his own shot.

[ReggieMiller31]

I don't think it's so much specifically Nash, as just the way they play in PHX. They're like Golden State, all their offensive numbers (and do a degree rebounds) are inflated.

Amare's very good, but he is overrated. I can't call a player who plays defense the way he does a great player, basketball is a two way game.

I also think Amare's career will mirror that of Jermaine O'Neal and once his athleticism leaves him he'll be a huge contract that can't play anymore.

[20 Dimes A Game]

Amare Stoudemire was rookie of the year, and averaging 20+ points per game before Nash was even there.

pwnage

[The GM]

forget it. we don't have the karmic cap space to sign nash's spirit. we could defintely get luke ridnoir's spirit for a karmic bargain though. so that's something to consider.

here's a question: would ty thomas look like a potential all-star if he played with steve nash (or kidd)?

people would be saying ty thomas is one of the best big men in the game if playing with steve nash, it's a fact playing with nash makes you look better then you are. now everyone wants to slurp amare, amare is a very good player but he isn't a first tier big man in the league atleast not right now.

[loot]

:roll:


just:


:roll:

[steve]

How does everyone account for his shooting percentage jumping nearly 9% from his second to his third season, especially when it looked like he was going to be about a career 48% shooter. It's now 11.5% better now than the season before Nash showed up. Would Stoudemire have scored as much if Nash wasn't there? Probably, but he would been much more of a volume scorer than he is now. Nash allows him to play more efficiently (on offense anyway) and makes life a whole lot simpler. As an aside, his turnovers are also down.

[OutOfPlace]

Amare is NOT just a dunker. He is a very good shooter from midrange and has an excellent face-the-basket game in general. That said, he IS overrated. Defensively he's a joke. Sure, he blocks a lot of shots due to his athleticism, but he can't defend the 5 to save his life. Bynum drops 28 on him for a new career high, Jefferson burns him for 32/20 then 39/15... the guy just seems to be getting owned on the defensive end every other night.

[BnchClearNBrawlR]

This guy is a product of steve nash just like Q-Rich was, and as soon Richardson left Nash look where his career went, down the tube. Amare doesn't have a consistant jumpshot to speak of, Nash basically gives him layups and dunks on every play off the pick N roll and has proven he can't create his own shot for his life. He's a decent free-throw shooter and should be a better rebounder. Now i do agree he is one of the best finishers in the game but i hear people calling him a top 15 player and i think that's total bs. I don't know how one can argue he's even in the same league as Duncan, Yao, KG, & Dirk as a dominant big man in the league. At this point i'd rather have Duncan, KG, Yao, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Chris Bosh all over Amare. We'll see in a few years when Nash retires how good Amare is but if he doesn't step it up and work in his game a bit he will come back down to reality, the potential is there but i think people give him way to much credit.

Good point except you conveniently forgot to mention how he used to beast EVERYONE in the League with his strength, speed, and athleticism THEN had MICRO"friggin"FRACTURE surgery rob him of some of these assets. He's had to work on the rest of his game and may NEVER be like he was prior to SURGERY athletically but is still a GREAT player NOT OVERRATED!

"Don't make me clear the bench!" -BrawlR

[allball]

people would be saying ty thomas is one of the best big men in the game if playing with steve nash, it's a fact playing with nash makes you look better then you are. now everyone wants to slurp amare, amare is a very good player but he isn't a first tier big man in the league atleast not right now.

rubbish

[Sonic R]

Amare Stoudemire is WAYYYYY overrated.

LOL

Andrew Bynum is overrated

[starface]

i think the reason people feel he's overrated is that he COULD be so much better than he is, but he's not. he doesnt work hard enough, he's not smart enough, and he doesnt have enough guts.

plus even tho he's statistically a good jump shooter, that's because he predominantly takes wide open jump shots. He doesnt create his own shot with a defender on his back, a la Duncan, Yao, Garnett, etc.

[joewait]

he blows on defense and is a cancer. he needs to be on a team where he is unquestionably not the best player so he can slide into his proper role

[The GM]

he blows on defense and is a cancer. he needs to be on a team where he is unquestionably not the best player so he can slide into his proper role

isn't nash unquestionably the best player on that team?

[2LeTTeRS KD]

people would be saying ty thomas is one of the best big men in the game if playing with steve nash, it's a fact playing with nash makes you look better then you are. now everyone wants to slurp amare, amare is a very good player but he isn't a first tier big man in the league atleast not right now.

People who say this overrate the impact of an elite point guard. Name a player that performed at a superstar or even a star level with Nash, Kidd, or any other premier point gaurd and fell on their face when leaving.

[joewait]

isn't nash unquestionably the best player on that team?

apparently not to Amare

[gyu]

So would you guys think amare's defense would be better if he played a 4?

[The_Blur]

I think everyone agrees that his defense is not good, be it because he plays against bigger, stronger guys night in night out or just because he doesn't put enough effort. But offensively, he's one of the best at his position.
- He has a great looking jumpshot.
- He is still quicker that most defenders.
- He is a great finisher (he just has a feel for the basket).
- He is a good FT shooter, which is good because he gets to the line often.

[BonyFaceNDong]

Amare is not as overrated as before, even though he's still a little overrated.
He is a beast on offense, even though his shooting percantage is helped a lot by Nash and Suns system.

The big knock is his defense, he can't guard legit big men, Yao,Howard, Duncan, Bynum, Jefferson etc all had big games against him. His defense is nowhere near top 10 in centers. What's so good when you score 30 points on 60% shooting but let your conterpart score 25 points on 55% shooting?

Basketball game has two parts: offense and defense. But normal fans and media members only see offensive numbers he put on so he's considered a top 3 center without doubt, even the top one as you can see he was voted to NBA first team.

That's why he's still overrated.

[Allstar24]

he played 55 games the year before nash came there, granted he average 20 a game but c'mon 55 games doesn't account for anything and he average 13the year before that and thats playing well??
How can 20.6 pts and 9 rebounds in your second year not account for anything? I agree that he is a better player with Nash on the floor but to call him overrated is just crazy. He definitely needs to work harder on the defensive end but he has better free throw shooting and a mid-range jump shot than most others and he's still only 25.

[TheHonestTruth]

Word brother. He is very overrated. The only player more overrated than Amare is Kobe.

[Smokee]

my only beef with Amare now is he doesnt have heart or drive to win. He may pretend to sometimes if he makes some big dunk or block but he rarely steps up to carry them from game to game towards the end and disappears too much sometimes like hes ok with being a 2nd or 3rd option...thats why he doesnt deserve to be looked at on the top tier, because everyone else you put there wants the ball and usually gets it. How can you be 14-16 fg's and lose the game by like 12 or something? Get the goddamn ball Amare if you know your hot and can score at will. Hes too soft inside too but i guess you could make the case he should be a PF...he definitely doesnt like contact too much :pimp:

[Rab]

I think people don't understand the phrase, " *insert player name here* makes his team better." To me, it means that a player makes the game easier for his teammates. Not that he makes them improve their jumper, or make them work on footwork, post moves, ball handling, etc. I think that's where people go wrong with Nash. He makes the game easier for everyone by finding them in good positions to score.

Nash doesn't make Amare a better jumpshooter. He does not make him a better finisher, or rebounder, or passer. Those are characteristics that must be improved on by the player. I absolutely HATE when people say Amare or Shawn are only where they are because of Nash. Marion has been putting up the same numbers for years without Nash. How has Nash made him better in terms of being a better finisher, shooter, or ball handler? Nothing, he is pretty much the same player he has been for years, but Nash makes the game easier for him.

[lakerfreak]

Amare Stoudemire was rookie of the year, and averaging 20+ points per game before Nash was even there.

Not to mention he got those numbers playing with ball hog stephon marbury.

[Rab]

my only beef with Amare now is he doesnt have heart or drive to win. He may pretend to sometimes if he makes some big dunk or block but he rarely steps up to carry them from game to game towards the end and disappears too much sometimes like hes ok with being a 2nd or 3rd option...

Maybe a little. I know I have questioned his effort on the defensive end a lot this year, but I can tell you with certainty, that he is not okay with being the teams 2nd or 3rd scoring option. A lot of the time he gets frozen out of games, especially if the team is behind. They start launching three after three. He's already once expressed concern about lack of touches during crucial parts of the game.


thats why he doesnt deserve to be looked at on the top tier, because everyone else you put there wants the ball and usually gets it.

Amare wants the ball, but at the same time, he plays in a system when on any given night, Grant Hill can have a huge game, Barbosa can have a huge game, Nash or Marion could step up. Mike D'Antoni when questioned about why Amare doesn't get the ball more said, "the system is set up to find the hot hand." I hate this philosophy. Yesterday against the Wolves, they completely froze Amare out in the second half because Bell and Barbosa were too busy chucking three's.


How can you be 14-16 fg's and lose the game by like 12 or something? Get the goddamn ball Amare if you know your hot and can score at will.

The answer to your question is easy.

Offensive Rebounds:

Minny - 22
Phoenix - 3

That's where you could put more blame on Amare.


Hes too soft inside too but i guess you could make the case he should be a PF...he definitely doesnt like contact too much

Couldn't disagree more. Amare is one of the best finishers in the game. He finishes better than any big in the league after absorbing contact. He not afraid of it.

[Rab]

Not to mention he got those numbers playing with ball hog stephon marbury.
And most of the year with a rook in Barbosa as the PG after Marbury was traded.

[Smokee]

Couldn't disagree more. Amare is one of the best finishers in the game. He finishes better than any big in the league after absorbing contact. He not afraid of it.


but he does it mostly by avoiding contact, hes more a guard type big man than a Shaq like big man and thats why i get the impression hes soft i guess. Because he relies on going around everyone and avoiding contact than bruising his way in, even on D he doesnt look like he enjoys getting body'd down low too much. its kind of like in boxing or mma where you have one guy whos the aggressor backing up the other guy, and Amare is usually the one being backed up or tries to cut around them.

and yeah he does make alot of his and 1's from hack fouls. Its because hes quick and maybe one of the best short range jumper big men in the game. but we'll have to agree to disagree on him not being soft, altho he has the ability to makeup for that so its not that big a deal. I guess more on D and playing Center.

[Rab]

but he does it mostly by avoiding contact, hes more a guard type big man than a Shaq like big man and thats why i get the impression hes soft i guess. Because he relies on going around everyone and avoiding contact than bruising his way in, even on D he doesnt look like he enjoys getting body'd down low too much. its kind of like in boxing or mma where you have one guy whos the aggressor backing up the other guy, and Amare is usually the one being backed up or tries to cut around them.

and yeah he does make alot of his and 1's from hack fouls. Its because hes quick and maybe one of the best short range jumper big men in the game. but we'll have to agree to disagree on him not being soft, altho he has the ability to makeup for that so its not that big a deal. I guess more on D and playing Center.
Well, he's definitely not your traditional post up, back to the basket center. I cringe even calling him a center, because he's not. He's always been a face up, blow by with quickness type of player. Occassionally he'll bust out some good post moves, and you're like, WTF???

I do think he looks uncomfortable on defense, and he doesn't like being bodied up, but I think that has more to do with him getting his ass kicked every night by bigger players. When he plays more players to his size, he's more physical.

I think there is a lot of untapped potential in him though. I just wonder if we'll see it sometimes.

[Unreal Skill]

I love Amare and Ill admit that he's little overrated but definitely not "WAYYYYY" overrated like you said. 90% of NBA superstars are overrated either by little or a lot.

[Make It Rain]

Amare IS overrated. He's still a great player, one of the best at his position. But he's still overrated and a moron. In the offseason, instead of working on his post game, he works on his 3-pt shot? WTF? The reason why he helps the Suns is so they could have an inside-outside game, not an outside-outside game.

[RIMMER]

Amare and Dwight Howard are in the same league, as raw, physical specimens. They dont demand double and triple teams in the post the way Yao Ming or Tim Duncan do. Half of Amare's points come off dunks because of Nash's brilliance. Half of Dwight's points come on dunks off offensive boards.

[Bruinlove]

If anything, Amare is a dumbass. This summer, instead of trying to work on his non-existant post game, he spent all his time working on 3 pointers. Because obviously a 28% 3 point shooting 7-footer is just what the suns need:no:

[Bruinlove]

Amare IS overrated. He's still a great player, one of the best at his position. But he's still overrated and a moron. In the offseason, instead of working on his post game, he works on his 3-pt shot? WTF? The reason why he helps the Suns is so they could have an inside-outside game, not an outside-outside game.
haha great minds think alike

[2LeTTeRS KD]

If anything, Amare is a dumbass. This summer, instead of trying to work on his non-existant post game, he spent all his time working on 3 pointers. Because obviously a 28% 3 point shooting 7-footer is just what the suns need:no:

You really think tahst the only thing he worked on? Some people need to grow a brain and not think that if they dont hear it on sportscenter it didnt happen.

[Bruinlove]

You really think tahst the only thing he worked on? Some people need to grow a brain and not think that if they dont hear it on sportscenter it didnt happen.
You're right I'm making an assumption based on the fact he still has no post game to speak of and still doesn't know how to play D.

[dafunkphenom]

Sure Amare benefits from playing with Nash but he is a beast. I don't think he is as good as TD, KG or Dirk, he is waaaay better than Bosh and Yao. I've seen him kill Yao down low countless times.

[Make It Rain]

You really think tahst the only thing he worked on? Some people need to grow a brain and not think that if they dont hear it on sportscenter it didnt happen.
Well, see him posting anyone up? I don't. I do, however, see that he has already taken 15 of his 50 career 3-pt shot attempts this season.

[2LeTTeRS KD]

You're right I'm making an assumption based on the fact he still has no post game to speak of and still doesn't know how to play D.

Amare is a face the basket scorer. Because of his body he'll always get more points by going around or over his defender, then backing up to them because he doesn't have the strength to. He has however added more post moves, and added a hell of a lot of range, plus with the explosion in his legs coming back more this year he's even improved as a shot blocker. If you didn't see those differences in his game then you might want to consider checking out a few more Suns games.

[Bruinlove]

Amare is playing the same this year as he always had, only difference is he's randomly chucking up a 3 or two. I don't know which player you're seeing, but I don't really care about arguing this anyway.

The moral of the story is the suns will go the way of the Webber Kings or the Sheed Blazers-aka nowhere

[Make It Rain]

Amare is a face the basket scorer. Because of his body he'll always get more points by going around or over his defender, then backing up to them because he doesn't have the strength to. He has however added more post moves, and added a hell of a lot of range, plus with the explosion in his legs coming back more this year he's even improved as a shot blocker. If you didn't see those differences in his game then you might want to consider checking out a few more Suns games.
A face-up scoring big man can only go so far. Why do you think the Spurs pound them every year? A big man with a post game on both ends has a bigger impact on the game than a face-up big man that runs the floor and gets most of his points in transition. Eventually, the game will be slowed down and they won't be able to run. What then? Nash has to take over. For the Spurs, when the game is slowed to halfcourt basketball, they just dump it into Duncan for an automatic 2.

[statman32]

Amare IS overrated. He's still a great player, one of the best at his position. But he's still overrated and a moron. In the offseason, instead of working on his post game, he works on his 3-pt shot? WTF? The reason why he helps the Suns is so they could have an inside-outside game, not an outside-outside game.


If anything, Amare is a dumbass. This summer, instead of trying to work on his non-existant post game, he spent all his time working on 3 pointers. Because obviously a 28% 3 point shooting 7-footer is just what the suns need:no:

Why would Amare work on his back to the basket game when it doesnt fit into Dantonis system? People would then complain that hes not fitting into the team aka being a cancer. Instead he works on his jump shot and his face up moves to try and fit in with the teams plans more but still gets criticized for not having a back to the basket game.

So if anyone is to blame its Dantoni and the Suns front office for not putting Dantoni in his place.

But continue to talk out of your asses when you both CLEARLY dont watch the Suns enough to understand whats going on.

[Make It Rain]

Why would Amare work on his back to the basket game when it doesnt fit into Dantonis system? People would then complain that hes not fitting into the team aka being a cancer. Instead he works on his jump shot and his face up moves to try and fit in with the teams plans more but still gets criticized for not having a back to the basket game.

So if anyone is to blame its Dantoni and the Suns front office for not putting Dantoni in his place.

But continue to talk out of your asses when you both CLEARLY dont watch the Suns enough to understand whats going on.
So, D'Antoni's system is to have EVERYONE shoot 3's?

[Day La Ghetto]

Who overates Amare? He's a second tier Power Forward that play no defense.Is what it is.

[statman32]

So, D'Antoni's system is to have EVERYONE shoot 3's?
Hasnt openly said that he prefers EVERYONE to shoot 3s but I wouldnt doubt it. One thing I know for sure is he wants his power forward to be able to spread the floor by shooting threes.

And a back to the basket game DOES NOT fit into his system at all.

[Make It Rain]

Hasnt openly said that he prefers EVERYONE to shoot 3s but I wouldnt doubt it. One thing I know for sure is he wants his power forward to be able to spread the floor by shooting threes.

And a back to the basket game DOES NOT fit into his system at all.
Amare's the Center. How does a back-to-the-basket game not fit into a system? When the Suns are slowed to a halfcourt game, Nash just ISOs. Wouldn't a big man with a post game help that? Every championship team in the history of the NBA has had a dominant post guy, even the Bulls (Jordan).

Edit: And what's with this misconception that Amare plays defense? Big deal, he blocks a few more shots every once in a while. But he gambles on the weakside...A LOT, leaving his man open for a tip-in or an uncontested dunk/layup.

[hito da god]

Why the hell has amare never averaged double digit rebounds? That's a shame

[OutOfPlace]

Sure Amare benefits from playing with Nash but he is a beast. I don't think he is as good as TD, KG or Dirk, he is waaaay better than Bosh and Yao. I've seen him kill Yao down low countless times.

You have got be kidding. Yao does everything better than Amare other than dunking. And Amare has NEVER "abused Yao down low" because he pretty much doesn't have a post game. On the other hand, I've seen Yao absolutely destroy Stoudemire in the post numerous times.

[The GM]

You have got be kidding. Yao does everything better than Amare other than dunking. And Amare has NEVER "abused Yao down low" because he pretty much doesn't have a post game. On the other hand, I've seen Yao absolutely destroy Stoudemire in the post numerous times.

And Yao plays DEFENSE, is way more important to his team then Amare, as a bigger impact on the game and coule be argued to be a legit top 5 player in the league and the best big man in the game(or Tim Duncan).

[3stat2]

Hehe. Entertaining thread. Good job, make more of these please. More hilarity is always good. :applause:

[BonyFaceNDong]

Sure Amare benefits from playing with Nash but he is a beast. I don't think he is as good as TD, KG or Dirk, he is waaaay better than Bosh and Yao. I've seen him kill Yao down low countless times.

It's the other way around.

Check their career head to head games, More often than not, Yao kills Amare despite being double teamed everytime, sometimes without ball.

and Amare usually got his points while Yao is not on the court, being single covered.

[3stat2]

Actually looking back at this thread - looks like a lot of people personally hate Amare because he's a threat to their favourite player, or favourite team. They see one or two clips or boxscores of him and draw the worst possible conclusion they can from it.

Can't people be content to just support their player/team - rather than rabidly try to put down others in order to make their own look better? It's this kind of **** that makes ISH look bad at times

[Bruinlove]

OK yes, he is a top 11 big man in the NBA today. But I don't think that's saying much seeing as I would take 10 other bigmen over him. I think he is pretty overrated. I mean his points obviously don't mean much, the Spurs strategy against the Suns last year in the playoffs was to let Amare do whatever he wants and shut down the parts around him. Amare wound up with like 40 a game but they still lost in 7

[statman32]

OK yes, he is a top 11 big man in the NBA today. But I don't think that's saying much seeing as I would take 10 other bigmen over him. I think he is pretty overrated. I mean his points obviously don't mean much, the Spurs strategy against the Suns last year in the playoffs was to let Amare do whatever he wants and shut down the parts around him. Amare wound up with like 40 a game but they still lost in 7
Which 10 bigmen are you talking about so I can knock all but 3 or 4 off the list.

[A Roc 23]

This thread has been made 15 times before and I've probably written 20 pages about how untrue it is. Today I'm not going to bother, just see Kblaze's numbers and check out Amare's hot zones.

[Bruinlove]

Which 10 bigmen are you talking about so I can knock all but 3 or 4 off the list.


In No Order:
Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Carlos Boozer
Yao Ming
Andris Biedrins
Tyson Chandler
LeMarcus Aldridge
Rasheed Wallace
Chris Kaman
Tim Duncan
Greg Oden
Marcus Camby
David West

All of those players, I would take over Amare Stoudemire.

I've said it a million times and I will say it again. Amare/Nash Suns will go the way of the Sheed Blazers and Webber Kings: nowhere.

[statman32]

In No Order:
Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Carlos Boozer
Yao Ming
Andris Biedrins
Tyson Chandler
LeMarcus Aldridge
Rasheed Wallace
Chris Kaman
Tim Duncan
Greg Oden
Marcus Camby
David West

All of those players, I would take over Amare Stoudemire.

I've said it a million times and I will say it again. Amare/Nash Suns will go the way of the Sheed Blazers and Webber Kings: nowhere.
You have got to be kidding me? Is this some sort of cruel joke? Are people on ISH really this stupid? This might be the worst post I've ever seen on Ish and I've been around this board for a couple of years now.

[dafunkphenom]

In No Order:
Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Carlos Boozer
Yao Ming
Andris Biedrins
Tyson Chandler
LeMarcus Aldridge
Rasheed Wallace
Chris Kaman
Tim Duncan
Greg Oden
Marcus Camby
David West

All of those players, I would take over Amare Stoudemire.

You gotta be kidding me!!!!!!
Only Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki and Dwight Howard I would take over Amare.

Anybody that takes Yao over Amare is either on crack or a Houston fan. Yao is soft and I have never seen Yao dominate Amare the times I have watched them play. Yao cries over a hangnail and complains to the refs everytime I see a 6'9 power forward throw one down over him.
The face that this guy starts for the West all star team is a joke.
Tim Duncan should start at center because in reality he is a center and Dirk Nowitzki at PF. Amare should be the first reserve center.

[The_Blur]

In No Order:
Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Carlos Boozer
Yao Ming
Andris Biedrins
Tyson Chandler
LeMarcus Aldridge
Rasheed Wallace
Chris Kaman
Tim Duncan
Greg Oden
Marcus Camby
David West

All of those players, I would take over Amare Stoudemire.

I've said it a million times and I will say it again. Amare/Nash Suns will go the way of the Sheed Blazers and Webber Kings: nowhere.


That is the funniest post I have ever seen...you forgot the sarcasm tag.:roll:
How the hell is Aldridge, Oden, Bynum, Biedrins, Camby, Chandler, West, Wallace and Kaman any better than Amare. We're talking about both offense and defense, not just defense.

[e20dyl4n]

Actually looking back at this thread - looks like a lot of people personally hate Amare because he's a threat to their favourite player, or favourite team. They see one or two clips or boxscores of him and draw the worst possible conclusion they can from it.

Can't people be content to just support their player/team - rather than rabidly try to put down others in order to make their own look better? It's this kind of **** that makes ISH look bad at times

you have to look at him from an unbiased look. crazy athleticism and i do mean CRAAAZZZYYYYY but he still hasnt carried his team to a championship. he is definately a beast and he isnt overrated. but he has alot to prove

[e20dyl4n]

That is the funniest post I have ever seen...you forgot the sarcasm tag.:roll:
How the hell is Aldridge, Oden, Bynum, Biedrins, Camby, Chandler, West, Wallace and Kaman any better than Amare. We're talking about both offense and defense, not just defense.

oden biedrins camby chandler west wallace and kaman are all better on amare? are you SERIOUS !?!?!?!?!

[dafunkphenom]

It takes more than one player to carry a team to a championship. Are you gonna say that Malone and Barkley aren't 2 of the best big men ever to play the game because they couldn't win the big one?

[statman32]

you have to look at him from an unbiased look. crazy athleticism and i do mean CRAAAZZZYYYYY but he still hasnt carried his team to a championship. he is definately a beast and he isnt overrated. but he has alot to prove
Of course he still has a lot to prove but how many big men have carried there teams to championships in the past 15 years? Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan and no one is comparing Amare to those three so I don't know why you brought that up.

[Bruinlove]

It takes more than one player to carry a team to a championship. Are you gonna say that Malone and Barkley aren't 2 of the best big men ever to play the game because they couldn't win the big one?

Amare doesn't hold a candle to either of those two.

I'd want my list over Amare because no matter how much he scores, he's an average rebounder and weak defending the paint. Since his points all come from being fed or running the floor, as in he can't create high percentage shots from the post, and he doesn't protect the paint, I would take these guys over Amare. Biedrins and Howard aren't so good in the post either but they make up for that with tough rebounding, defense and hustle. Because Amare doesn't have anything that you need from a bigman (post play, strong defense, toughness and strong rebounding or even average passing) I would not want him as the starting center of my team.

[statman32]

It's the other way around.

Check their career head to head games, More often than not, Yao kills Amare despite being double teamed everytime, sometimes without ball.

and Amare usually got his points while Yao is not on the court, being single covered.
You really want me to show there head to head stats? I will give you one chance to admit you are talking out of your ass or I will show the stats and make you look like a fool.

[Bruinlove]

It takes more than one player to carry a team to a championship. Are you gonna say that Malone and Barkley aren't 2 of the best big men ever to play the game because they couldn't win the big one?
Also Malone and Barkley atleast got to the finals. I don't see Amare and his suns ever doing that.

[Bruinlove]

Btw, I'll add Al Jefferson to the list aswell

[Unreal Skill]

You have got to be kidding me? Is this some sort of cruel joke? Are people on ISH really this stupid? This might be the worst post I've ever seen on Ish and I've been around this board for a couple of years now.

That came from a guy who support Kwame Brown. Obversely, he has very little idea what he's talking about. I'm guessing he take Kwame "Small Hands" Brown over Amare too? lol

[BA_God]

Amare is overrated just like Nash is under the offensive-oriented suns system.

their stats are inflated under the suns system.

[Bruinlove]

Amare doesn't hold a candle to either of those two.

I'd want my list over Amare because no matter how much he scores, he's an average rebounder and weak defending the paint. Since his points all come from being fed or running the floor, as in he can't create high percentage shots from the post, and he doesn't protect the paint, I would take these guys over Amare. Biedrins and Howard aren't so good in the post either but they make up for that with tough rebounding, defense and hustle. Because Amare doesn't have anything that you need from a bigman (post play, strong defense, toughness and strong rebounding or even average passing) I would not want him as the starting center of my team.
My opinion stands

[The_Blur]

I'd want my list over Amare because no matter how much he scores, he's an average rebounder and weak defending the paint.

That's BS and you know it...if you don't care how much a center scores then you would probably also pick these over amare:
- Emeka Okafor
- Jermaine O'Neal
- Ben Wallace
- Samuel Dalembert
- Nene Hilario
- Andrew Bogut
- Joel Przybilla
- Erick Dampier
- Kwame Brown
- Jeff Foster
- Jeff Foster

This is just hilarious.

[dafunkphenom]

He makes it look like Amare is weak in the paint. I don't think so. He's a natural PF so he's playing out of position. He's not as weak as Bosh is.

BTW, I wasn't trying to compare Amare to Malone and Barkley. I was just trying to respond to the guy who was saying that he never lead his team to a championship.

[statman32]

Amare is overrated just like Nash is under the offensive-oriented suns system.

their stats are inflated under the suns system.
Just stfu. Amare put up 20/9 in his second season with Marbury/Barbosa as his point guards. Of course his stats will improve over time. I would even say that all his stats besides a slight decrease in fg% would improve on a team that utilzed him more.

[Bruinlove]

That's BS and you know it...if you don't care how much a center scores then you would probably also pick these over amare:
- Emeka Okafor
- Jermaine O'Neal
- Ben Wallace
- Samuel Dalembert
- Nene Hilario
- Andrew Bogut
- Joel Przybilla
- Erick Dampier
- Kwame Brown
- Jeff Foster
- Jeff Foster

This is just hilarious.
Those guys are past their prime or below average defenders and rebounders. I'd take Amare over them. He's in the top third of the league, that's something! He still doesn't do his job as a big man, it's a waste of his bigass body to suck in the post, suck at defense, and suck at rebounding

[Bruinlove]

He makes it look like Amare is weak in the paint. I don't think so. He's a natural PF so he's playing out of position. He's not as weak as Bosh is.

BTW, I wasn't trying to compare Amare to Malone and Barkley. I was just trying to respond to the guy who was saying that he never lead his team to a championship.

No he's strong, if he gets the ball right under the basket I trust he'll throw it down for the dunk. If he gets it any farther away then that though he's useless.

Oh wait, no he has three point range now, I forgot

[The_Blur]

Those guys are past their prime or below average defenders and rebounders. I'd take Amare over them. He's in the top third of the league, that's something! He still doesn't do his job as a big man, it's a waste of his bigass body to suck in the post, suck at defense, and suck at rebounding

Are you talking about Kwame?

[KRAYZIE]

Amare is a beast, this thread is overrated.

[e20dyl4n]

Of course he still has a lot to prove but how many big men have carried there teams to championships in the past 15 years? Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan and no one is comparing Amare to those three so I don't know why you brought that up.

i bring it up because amare has the ability to carry his team.

[dafunkphenom]

Absolutely! Although Nash is the catalyst they are a true 2 headed monster. It's just too bad they'll never beat the Spurs. Unless a freak injury happens.

[statman32]

No he's strong, if he gets the ball right under the basket I trust he'll throw it down for the dunk. If he gets it any farther away then that though he's useless.

Oh wait, no he has three point range now, I forgot
He's useless if he's not right under the basket? You want me to bring up his stats from us jumper? Or will you agree with me that you were just talking out of your ass?

[3stat2]

you have to look at him from an unbiased look. crazy athleticism and i do mean CRAAAZZZYYYYY but he still hasnt carried his team to a championship. he is definately a beast and he isnt overrated. but he has alot to prove
Hooray, one of the most reasonable points of view so far. And look, it came from a Spurs fan who knows what it actually takes to win. Amare does indeed have a lot to prove since he hasn't been to the finals yet. And I'm alright with that because he's still young. It'll provide nothing but motivation for him.

Although keep in mind that the Suns have been blocked by your damn Spurs several times! Also currently the Suns system is not exactly set up for one single player to carry the whole team - everyone has to contribute for the system (and thus the team) to be successful. And anyway, Nash is the most important player on the Suns, partly because the system in which they play was designed around Nash, and partly because he's awesome. And of course, Amare is still pretty far from the level of the elite few big men who have carried their teams to the finals - Duncan, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq etc. It's not really fair to compare him to them at this stage.

I'm going to stop reading some of the posts in this thread now. Especially those from that Laker fan who's so blinded with wanting to make the Lakers look good that he's willing to say Andris Biedrins is better than Amare.

Actually, I think I'm going to keep reading them. Because they're damn funny.

[Unreal Skill]

Let's not forget Amare is 6'10 and 250 and he runs the most out of any bigmen. It's not surprising Amare is not as good as on rebounding and defense as he should be, but that's due to the fact he's tired after running and running. I doubt very little bigmen can do things Amare does considering that Amare play uptempo night after night. Even with the microfacture surgey, Amare is a beast. Amare is slightly overrated but not as much overrated as you put him to be.

[Bruinlove]

You give him the ball 20 times in the post and ask him to score off it and he'll give you back 10 points. This guy on the Timberwolves would make him look Swift like. He can carry a team no where

[Unreal Skill]

You give him the ball 20 times in the post and ask him to score off it and he'll give you back 10 points. This guy on the Timberwolves would make him look Swift like. He can carry a team no where

Why waste time when you can dunk over them or blow past them with the defenders helpless to do anything?

[3stat2]

I'm going to stop reading some of the posts in this thread now. Especially those from that Laker fan who's so blinded with wanting to make the Lakers look good that he's willing to say Andris Biedrins is better than Amare.

Actually, I think I'm going to keep reading them. Because they're damn funny.


You give him the ball 20 times in the post and ask him to score off it and he'll give you back 10 points. This guy on the Timberwolves would make him look Swift like. He can carry a team no where
:oldlol:
Case in point

[statman32]

i bring it up because amare has the ability to carry his team.
I agree. He has the ability but under the system he plays in now, its nearly impossible for him to do that with Nash dominating the ball and "energy" finding the right guy on offense.

At times I do get disapointed in his occasional lack of effort on the boards and defense but its not nearly as bad as most people think. He does give effort a lot and if not for him having no big man to play next, people would look at him as a above average defender.

[Borat]

Amare's playoff series vs spurs pre injury gained him much respect in my book.

He scores alot with his supreme athleticism, anywhere form 15 foot in it seem she can drive and get a decent shot 90% of the time and then converts a t high % also.

His defence is average, not poor - like wise his rebounding.. but this fluctuates between great and bad.

Based on his offensive game alone I place him a top 3-4 big in the league.

Ist team all nba seems to show that this is a fairly standard opinion around teh people who watch him all season

[Bruinlove]

Ok we're not going to change eachothers minds. You heard my opinion and I know yours. Peace alls

[Day La Ghetto]

He's useless if he's not right under the basket? You want me to bring up his stats from us jumper? Or will you agree with me that you were just talking out of your ass?

This thread was bait and your whiny ass bit right into it. Amare isn't as good as you're making him out to be and you know that. But you're looking for trouble 24/7 on here so why not squirm around like a the crybaby you are. Whos going to agree with you here even if your are right? Nobodys my guess.
Nobody stands up for a jackass. Straighten up and gain some respect.

[e20dyl4n]

Amare's playoff series vs spurs pre injury gained him much respect in my book.

He scores alot with his supreme athleticism, anywhere form 15 foot in it seem she can drive and get a decent shot 90% of the time and then converts a t high % also.

His defence is average, not poor - like wise his rebounding.. but this fluctuates between great and bad.

Based on his offensive game alone I place him a top 3-4 big in the league.

Ist team all nba seems to show that this is a fairly standard opinion around teh people who watch him all season

what im wondering is. whatever happened to the nash amare pick and roll that got amare those points pre injury. that play was unstoppable just like the parker/duncan pick and roll

[statman32]

This thread was bait and your whiny ass bit right into it. Amare isn't as good as you're making him out to be and you know that. But you're looking for trouble 24/7 on here so why not squirm around like a the crybaby you are. Whos going to agree with you here even if your are right? Nobodys my guess.
Nobody stands up for a jackass. Straighten up and gain some respect.
Who's going to agree with me? Plenty of people already have. I might not convince pre-teens or joke accounts like yours but if I convince one person who wasn't too sure before they read this thread, that's good enough for me. I come here to talk basketball, while you come here to hop on one dick to another. Stop treating posters ***** like there your own personal jungle gym.

[3stat2]

what im wondering is. whatever happened to the nash amare pick and roll that got amare those points pre injury. that play was unstoppable just like the parker/duncan pick and roll
The Suns had a new offensive system with more ball movement and whatnot in 05-06 - with Amare out with the surgeries and Diaw in.

D'Antoni decided he liked the new system more and kept it after Amare came back. Hence, he hasn't been scoring as much as in 04-05.
- He used to average 36 minutes a game, now he's at 31.
- He's getting 14 attempts a game where he used to get 17.
- On top of that, he attempted more FTs and had more turnovers in 04-05 than this season and last.
- And to prove he's not getting worse, Amare is shooting 59% and 77% FT - he shot 55.9% and 73% in 04-05.

So overall, Amare is getting the ball a lot less. They still use that pick and roll at critical points down the stretch though, main case in point, Game 4 of our last playoff series.

[Bruinlove]

Who's going to agree with me? Plenty of people already have. I might not convince pre-teens or joke accounts like yours but if I convince one person who wasn't too sure before they read this thread, that's good enough for me. I come here to talk basketball, while you come here to hop on one dick to another. Stop treating posters ***** like there your own personal jungle gym.
Hahaha what a ponce! He's just trying to enlighten others!:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Day La Ghetto]

Who's going to agree with me? Plenty of people already have. I might not convince pre-teens or joke accounts like yours but if I convince one person who wasn't too sure before they read this thread, that's good enough for me. I come here to talk basketball, while you come here to hop on one dick to another. Stop treating posters ***** like there your own personal jungle gym.

I've only talked down to 4-5 posters here . I don't go looking for it, just pick and choose my spots. You're one of the 5 . Other guys are dudes with high post counts that wanna knock on me because of my screename .Put them in there place too.

[statman32]

Hahaha what a ponce! He's just trying to enlighten others!:roll: :roll: :roll:
I thought you were done with this thread? You posting again leads me to believe that you left this thread because even you no longer believed the garbage you were spewing and you realized that we saw right through your troll ways. Do us a favor and leave this thread for good now.

[Bruinlove]

Lol I've said it a million times but at the end of the the day, the Amare/Nash suns will go the way of the Sheed Blazers and Webber Kings.



Nowhere:)

Goodbye!

[statman32]

Lol I've said it a million times but at the end of the the day, the Amare/Nash suns will go the way of the Sheed Blazers and Webber Kings.



Nowhere:)

Goodbye!
I guarantee the Amare/Nash Suns team goes farther than the Kobe/Bynum Lakers team. Sure you dont wanna come back one more time to make a fool out of yourself. Maybe you can post Amare vs Biedrins/West/Aldridge head to head stats to show how much they are better.

[statman32]

I've only talked down to 4-5 posters here . I don't go looking for it, just pick and choose my spots. You're one of the 5 . Other guys are dudes with high post counts that wanna knock on me because of my screename .Put them in there place too.
Whose the other 4?

[Bruinlove]

I guarantee the Amare/Nash Suns team goes farther than the Kobe/Bynum Lakers team. Sure you dont wanna come back one more time to make a fool out of yourself. Maybe you can post Amare vs Biedrins/West/Aldridge head to head stats to show how much they are better.
People who senselessly quote stats are usually overweight 15 year old white kid virgins. I however will pass no more judgement. Later buddy:)

[statman32]

People who senselessly quote stats are usually overweight 15 year old white kid virgins. I however will pass no more judgement. Later buddy:)
:oldlol:

Once again you come back to post more nonsense. Do us a favor and do it one more time. I got you wrapped around my finger. Just admit it.

[omarnyc]

amare has trouble on defense against bigger centers but they dont stop him either...people tend to forget that amare has took it to duncan in the playoffs,matetr fact at times he dominated him.

[HBKMGa]

This guy is a product of steve nash just like Q-Rich was, and as soon Richardson left Nash look where his career went, down the tube. Amare doesn't have a consistant jumpshot to speak of, Nash basically gives him layups and dunks on every play off the pick N roll and has proven he can't create his own shot for his life. He's a decent free-throw shooter and should be a better rebounder. Now i do agree he is one of the best finishers in the game but i hear people calling him a top 15 player and i think that's total bs. I don't know how one can argue he's even in the same league as Duncan, Yao, KG, & Dirk as a dominant big man in the league. At this point i'd rather have Duncan, KG, Yao, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Chris Bosh all over Amare. We'll see in a few years when Nash retires how good Amare is but if he doesn't step it up and work in his game a bit he will come back down to reality, the potential is there but i think people give him way to much credit.

Everyone will see just how overrated Amare is soon enough.

[Bigsmoke]

i'm getting really tired of the word overrated.

[Roundball_Rock]

:cheers: 34/11 on 59% in the last ten games. :bowdown:

[StillKill24]

yes he is.

[Lebron23]

Statman32 owned Bruinlove.

[Lakers12]

This guy is a product of steve nash just like Q-Rich was, and as soon Richardson left Nash look where his career went, down the tube. Amare doesn't have a consistant jumpshot to speak of, Nash basically gives him layups and dunks on every play off the pick N roll and has proven he can't create his own shot for his life. He's a decent free-throw shooter and should be a better rebounder. Now i do agree he is one of the best finishers in the game but i hear people calling him a top 15 player and i think that's total bs. I don't know how one can argue he's even in the same league as Duncan, Yao, KG, & Dirk as a dominant big man in the league. At this point i'd rather have Duncan, KG, Yao, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Chris Bosh all over Amare. We'll see in a few years when Nash retires how good Amare is but if he doesn't step it up and work in his game a bit he will come back down to reality, the potential is there but i think people give him way to much credit.

:roll:

[2LeTTeRS]

People who say this overrate the impact of an elite point guard. Name a player that performed at a superstar or even a star level with Nash, Kidd, or any other premier point gaurd and fell on their face when leaving.


Amare is a face the basket scorer. Because of his body he'll always get more points by going around or over his defender, then backing up to them because he doesn't have the strength to. He has however added more post moves, and added a hell of a lot of range, plus with the explosion in his legs coming back more this year he's even improved as a shot blocker. If you didn't see those differences in his game then you might want to consider checking out a few more Suns games.

Damn that man is smart.

[32jazz]

Statman32 owned Bruinlove.



He also guaranteed that Amare/Nash would win more than Kobe?:confusedshrug:


MOST everyone knows Amare was/is a damn good player.

[Bigsmoke]

Some people in this thread are really acting like Nash literally gave birth to Amare on some weird shit.

get off the old whitey's dick already!

[Norcaliblunt]

The problem is if Amare would have showed this type of leadership for the Suns when Nash was out over the last 5 years then no one would have been saying this. The second half of last year was the only time Amare ever stepped up AND WON GAMES when Nash was injured or playing poorly.

[dkmwise]

Amare is definetly talented, but he will be called underrated until he really shows it in the playoffs.

[Kurosawa0]

Amare has always been one of the top two or three most talented offensive bigs in the league. The problem is that he gives you almost zero presence on defense. If Amare had KG's defensive intensity, Phoenix probably wins a couple of rings.

[catch24]

^

In his defense, he's better than last season and previous years defensively. You're right though. Last night was a perfect example - Amare had a brilliant offensive game; he crashed the boards pretty well too, but defensively, especially down the stretch, dude couldn't stop KG if his life depended on it. 3-4 straight possessions it seemed KG was getting everything he wanted in the post/inside the paint and Amare couldn't do ANYTHING about it.

[icewill36]

Amare has always been one of the top two or three most talented offensive bigs in the league. The problem is that he gives you almost zero presence on defense. If Amare had KG's defensive intensity, Phoenix probably wins a couple of rings.

amare is 6'9 playing center, how much defense do u expect him to have ?

hes a skinny guy too, hes not made for bangin around with centers.

[John Stockton]

amare is 6'9 playing center, how much defense do u expect him to have ?

hes a skinny guy too, hes not made for bangin around with centers.

Yeah, it was really ridicilous watching him try to stop KG in the paint las night.

[the_wise_one]

Amare - Nash = Trash.

[Nash-tastic]

Amare - Nash = Trash.
Haven't seen the Knicks this year huh?

[NYKAllTheWay]

Amare - Nash = Trash.
3rd leading scorer in the NBA is trash?

[tpols]

Haven't seen the Knicks this year huh?
dude must not have left his house for a month or two..:oldlol:

[hayden695]

I will admit Amare has shocked me. I didn't expect him to do this well. I would still like him to pick his game up though, on everything but scoring pretty much.

[TDPrime2030]

Amare - Nash = Trash.
Of course, Nash's spirit is guiding Amare at the moment. Amare is nothing without Nash or his spirit.

[Patrick Chewing]

Amare - Nash = Trash.

fool

[BEAST Griffin]

Amare failed in the playoffs when it really counted.

[StillKill24]

Amare failed in the playoffs when it really counted.
yep. 6 rpg for pf :roll:

[Nick Young]

Amare da gawd