Suns officially get Shaq, Heat get Shawn Marion, Marcus Banks

[the even bigger black guy]

Chris Broussard posted: Friday, February 1, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry

My first thought was, "That's ridiculous! There's no way the Suns would trade for Shaq.''

With all due respect to The Diesel, he's just not what he used to be. And he's not worth $40 million over the next two years.

Then I began calling around and speaking with folks in the know. Here's what I was told:

"It's close to a done deal,'' said someone with knowledge of the Suns' thinking.

"I think it's going to happen,'' said someone else with knowledge of the Suns' thinking.

"Why?'' I cried. "I can't see one benefit to adding Shaq.''

Here's what I was told:

First, the Suns don't think they can win it all as currently constructed. Their lack of big, physical players scares the daylights out of them when they look at a Lakers frontline that features Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom (not to mention Ronny Turiaf).

I was told the Suns got word that Dallas was trying to trade for Shaq (in large part to combat the new-look Lakers' behemoth front line) and that that is what set this Phoenix-Miami deal in motion.

Afraid of what a Dallas team that featured Shaq, Dirk and Josh Howard would look like, the Suns have swept in and attempted to steal Shaq from the Mavericks.

I was also told that the locker room chemistry between Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire had gotten too negative to bear. No fighting, no yelling, just a bad vibe.

"But financially, it seems disastrous,'' I said.

In actuality, it's not that bad. Marion was owed more than $17 million next year, and he would have been foolish to opt out of that deal because no one else could have or would have paid him that much. Add in Marcus Banks' $4.1 million, and the Suns are actually saving money by paying Shaq $20 million.

Banks has two more years after next at almost $10 million total, so adding Shaq would cost the Suns about $10 million in the long run. That still doesn't jibe with owner Robert Sarver's cost-cutting mandate, but it's not as bad as I first thought.

Basketball-wise, the Suns believe the positives are this:

1. Shaq will give them the big, physical presence they sorely lack on both ends of the floor.

2. Shaq will enable Amare Stoudemire to play his true and preferred position of power forward, which will make Amare more effective, possibly increasing his scoring and rebounding numbers.

3. Steve Nash will make Shaq a bigger scorer than he currently is in Miami because of his ability to create easy baskets for the big fella. Plus, the Suns' 3-point shooting ability will open things up for Shaq inside.

4. The Suns can still run with Shaq because you don't need all five players sprinting upcourt to run a fastbreak.

The Suns aren't completely sold though.

I'm told that Amare wants the deal to happen and spoke extensively with Shaq on the telephone Tuesday night.

I'm told that Nash has some apprehension, but he's weighing the pros and cons. I'm told Coach Mike D'Antoni has even more apprehension, and that there are questions as to whether he can coach the team in a way that will utilize Shaq's abilities.

I'm told new president Steve Kerr thinks adding Shaq is a great opportunity for the Suns organization.

Personally, I wouldn't make this trade if I were the Suns. While they don't look dominant out West, the truth is that nobody looks dominant out West. They are one of four or five teams with a legitimate chance of winning the conference title.

I would give this core of Stoudemire, Nash and Marion one more shot before blowing it up.

While I understand the notion of Shaq adding a big, physical presence, I don't know that you can count on him to do that at his age (he'll turn 36 on March 6).

First, I think he could get in huge foul trouble because of Nash's inability to contain dribble penetration. And secondly, I don't know that Shaq will even be healthy most of the time.

I do like the idea of Dallas adding Shaq because I don't think they'd rely on him as much. I think he'd be a more effective version of Erick Dampier and DeSagana Diop. But I think the Suns will need more out of him than Dallas would.

I think Grant Hill and Boris Diaw can make up for Marion's offense, but defensively, the Suns will miss The Matrix.

I agree that Shaq's presence will make Stoudemire better, and that he will not stop the Suns from running fast breaks. He'll slow down their halfcourt offense, but with all those shooters around him, he should be more effective.

After speaking with these "folks in the know,'' I can see some pluses to adding Shaq to the Suns.

But I still wouldn't do it.

[loot]

i'd do it if i were the suns. outside of barbosa and amare the suns arent build for the future.

[5 K!DD dribbles]

Hope this goes through. The Suns need this in order to compete. Like it's been said before, the Phoenix Suns might not be able to win it all with this current basketball team.

[ikoiko]

isn't there another center they could trade for instead of shaq? i mean, ok if they figured they need a natural C to play D on duncan and enable Stat to play his natural role, but why Shaq? why not something like sam dalembert and andre miller for marion and banks?

it works on the trade machine: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2165~510~991~557&teams=20~20~21~21&te=&cash=

[Phenomenon]

Wrong player, they will sacrfice their trademark fast tempo for a big who plays 50 games a season, is injury prone, and isn't what he used to be.

Phoenix are just desperate, stupid trade...Miami gets a steal, in my opinion.

[kidachi]

it works on the trade machine: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2165~510~991~557&teams=20~20~21~21&te=&cash=


of course..

[duncan on U]

This might end up being the worst trade to get better that I've ever seen. Maybe they got HGH over there ready for Shaq because the shape he's in now is terrible. A great acqusition for Miami though if it happens.

[kwajo]

I'd love to see Shaq win the title in Phoenix, then Duncan can win in 2009 again, to complete the full decade of Shaq/Duncan dominance (well except for that Pistons anomaly in the middle).

99- Duncan
00- Shaq
01- Shaq
02- Shaq
03- Duncan
04-
05- Duncan
06- Shaq
07- Duncan
08- Shaq
09- Duncan

[pistonsfan83]

I can see not wanting him to go to Dallas. I can also see the feeling that they can't win as is. I think they do have a chance, but based on past years, they should feel like something needs to change. I'm just not sure Shaq will contribute at all. We will find out soon enough though.

[Valliant13]

The only non basketball justification I can understand is Shaq still has huge drawing power. Sarver may be able to recoup the extra salary paid with additional ticket sales and merchandise.

Why not trade for AK47, though?
Or (like an above poster said) some like Dalembert, or one of Seattle

[Valliant13]

Though, if Shaq did win a title with another team, he would be getting very close to top 5 all time territory.

[Silent Mav]

Thing that strikes me odd about the article is saying the Suns were worried about a Shaq, Dirk, Howard front line. But the only mention of a Dallas trade had Howard in the deal. So they wouldn't have that lineup out there. Plus until yesterday, there were no rumblings in Dallas about a deal for Shaq.

[TMacYao]

I hate this deal for phoenix for two main reasons.

A. Trading Marion for Shaq will have a HUGE negative impact on whats already a bad defense.

B. Want to shut down Phoenix's high powered offense? Hack a shaq.

[Shepseskaf]

My first thought was, "That's ridiculous! There's no way the Suns would trade for Shaq.''
That's my thought as well. A panic trade like this has a high probability of not accomplishing the stated goal. I think that Phoenix gets much worse if it goes down. Broussard's point that Dallas would be a much better place for Shaq is right on point.

The fallout from the Pau Gasol deal still continues....

[Aussie Dunker]

It looks bad, but in my personal opinion, the suns window is slowly closing, i dont think they can win it all with their current squad, so by making this trade they are deffinently gambling big time, but it could very well result in a ring if it works out...

what does miami get? i dont think marion is a good second option, i cant see miami going anywhere with him...

who cares if shaq only plays 50 games a season, he will be there when the playoffs come and thats all that matters, suns can get a top seed purely through nash, amare and their good role players...

I actually like the idea of Shaq in pheonix, i must be the only one...

[dejordan]

i'm a little shocked that it looks so certain that he's going to another team. i hope it's dallas because i don't think he meshes with nash. i like steve kerr, but i kinda feel like riley is taking him for a ride on this one.

[R11DMAN]

It looks bad, but in my personal opinion, the suns window is slowly closing, i dont think they can win it all with their current squad, so by making this trade they are deffinently gambling big time, but it could very well result in a ring if it works out...

what does miami get? i dont think marion is a good second option, i cant see miami going anywhere with him...

who cares if shaq only plays 50 games a season, he will be there when the playoffs come and thats all that matters, suns can get a top seed purely through nash, amare and their good role players...

I actually like the idea of Shaq in pheonix, i must be the only one...

I like it too!!! Now the Rockets has one run n gun and quick double teaming squad to worry about.:D

[kgisbigticket]

This was a great move for the Suns. The Suns team is now like the 1988 Lakers when they had the older Kareem.

The Suns needed another big man. If Amare got in foul trouble they were pretty much done. What's the purpose of having Marion when you have Grant Hill as well?

[InfamousDX]

This was a great move for the Suns. The Suns team is now like the 1988 Lakers when they had the older Kareem.

The Suns needed another big man. If Amare got in foul trouble they were pretty much done. What's the purpose of having Marion when you have Grant Hill as well?
I agree with your foul trouble analysis because after Amare it's a super dropoff... but elaborate on the Matrix vs. Hill?

[niko]

I just don't get this deal at all. A few reasons...

1) DiAntoni has shown no ability, or desire to play big. It's like pulling teeth, if he absolutely has to he will. So, here's Shaq?
2) No, the Sun do not need Shaq to run. But they need him to spread the floor when they get bogged down, their whole offense is predicated on good spacing. Here comes a big rock in the middle. Clogging the lane (when Stoudamire should be there) and allowing teams to stick with the shooters of the Suns.
3) SHAQ IS HURT. Have people been watching this season at all?

Awful...Suns do all these ass backwards moves to cut payroll, then increase it to bring in Shaq? WTF?

[and1]

great initial post, exactly my developement the last day



1) DiAntoni has shown no ability, or desire to play big. It's like pulling teeth, if he absolutely has to he will. So, here's Shaq?
good comparison ;) :cheers:

[ForceOfNature]

i'd do it if i were the suns. outside of barbosa and amare the suns arent build for the future.

But they're trying to win now. Shaq will just make them older and slower, and that's not their style. I just don't understand this deal, and I doubt Phoenix gets better. :confusedshrug:

[InfamousDX]

But they're trying to win now. Shaq will just make them older and slower, and that's not their style. I just don't understand this deal, and I doubt Phoenix gets better. :confusedshrug:
I guess people are scrambling in fear of the new twin towers in LA... making the Suns adapt to that instead of sticking to their style.

[ForceOfNature]

I guess people are scrambling in fear of the new twin towers in LA... making the Suns adapt to that instead of sticking to their style.

Yeah you never know. Although I will say one thing - Suns GM Steve Kerr is a smart man, maybe he sees something a lot of us common fans don't.

[3stat2]

As a Suns fan, this is how I see it:
1) Go ahead with it and trade Marion/Banks for Shaq = high risk, lower regular season wins, but potentially more rewards in the playoffs against the Lakers/Spurs/Utah etc.
2) Decide he's too much of a fatass to pass the physical, and cancel the trade = little/no risk, 58+ wins for the season, but possibly less playoff success.

It's undeniable that this trade is a big gamble. I will feel relieved if I wake up tomorrow to find that the trade has been cancelled. I think it's just a natural human reaction against significant change. I love this team as it is. I've watched them for years playing as they have been. While I may eventually get used to watching my beloved Suns playing a slower style, it will be quite a shock initially. If the team becomes more successful as a result of the trade, then eventually I and I'm sure many others will warm to it.

Just think about it this way - how would a Houston fan react if the Rockets suddenly traded Yao Ming and Scola for Al Harrington, Monta Ellis and Baron Davis? (it's implausible but you get the idea) The team they've watched for so long suddenly changes so much. The foundation - upon which you've placed all your beliefs and opinions about the team - suddenly and drastically changes in one swift move. And whether or not fans will eventually like the team, the initial reaction will be shock.

Still, I guess I won't be overly annoyed if the trade does go through - I will definitely be a little worried as to how the team will perform. The fact that they did this mid-season is the big thing. If it happened last offseason, I wouldn't be nearly as shocked. The team will have had time to gel and work out all the kinks etc. But like this... I just don't know. How often do you see a team try to drastically change it's style mid-season?

I guess we just need to wait and see what happens. I don't think anyone can say if the team will *definitely* improve or not with the trade until the team has played a bunch of games together.

Jeez, I never thought this stuff could make me so edgy. :banghead:

[InfamousDX]

Yeah you never know. Although I will say one thing - Suns GM Steve Kerr is a smart man, maybe he sees something a lot of us common fans don't.
Perhaps... otherwise this could go down as one of the more memorable BONEHEAD moves.

[konex]

1) DiAntoni has shown no ability, or desire to play big. It's like pulling teeth, if he absolutely has to he will. So, here's Shaq?


It's obvious he didn't sign off on this. I'd be packing my bags if I were him..

[SoCalMike]

I really think this is a bad deal. Shaq is not exactly in good shape, very old for a big, and is counter-intuitive to the Suns system. I'd be surprised if you got 40 games out of Shaq each season and who knows how much you could get out of him this season if he even makes it to the playoffs.

With the Suns run 'n gun style, does that mean they expect to have a lot of 4 on 5's as they dash up the court and Shaq is still at the other end of the court huffing and puffing? Also, does this signal the end of D'Antoni and his system?

The team is just not designed for a guy like Shaq at this point in Shaq's career, and you just can't throw him in there like this. He will break down and disrupt the Suns chemistry or not add any value.


:pimp:

[Allstar24]

I still can't believe this trade actually happened and Shaq is on his way to Phoenix :roll: Suns have the best record in the West so I don't get why they're so desperate to make a move. Was it just to keep Shaq away from Dallas? D'Antoni cannot be happy with this trade. Props to Kerr for having the guts to go ahead with this trade. He just helped out a lot of teams in the West :cheers:

[InfamousDX]

I still can't believe this trade actually happened and Shaq is on his way to Phoenix :roll: Suns have the best record in the West so I don't get why they're so desperate to make a move. Was it just to keep Shaq away from Dallas? D'Antoni cannot be happy with this trade. Props to Kerr for having the guts to go ahead with this trade. He just helped out a lot of teams in the West :cheers:
I dno't think it happened yet :confusedshrug:

[boozehound]

I'd love to see Shaq win the title in Phoenix, then Duncan can win in 2009 again, to complete the full decade of Shaq/Duncan dominance (well except for that Pistons anomaly in the middle).

99- Duncan
00- Shaq
01- Shaq
02- Shaq
03- Duncan
04-
05- Duncan
06- Shaq
07- Duncan
08- Shaq
09- Duncan
your future projections confused me. Iwas like "wait shaq doesnt have 5 rings":D

[Kobe24]

What a terrible trade for Phoenix. Lakers got them this shook that they're about to pull this off? You gamble on Shaq and he'll get injured( eventually right), what do you do? Start Brian Skinner and put Amare back at C? I just don't see it working and even a healthy Shaq isn't what he once was. I'd do it if I were Miami.

[Optimus Prime]

Shouldn't this thread be merged with the other, 35 page thread on the very same topic?

:confusedshrug:

[elz]

They had to do something
Im not sure this is the right move but they definitely had to do something.
Currently they can't beat LA with that roster and everyone knows it.


Offensively they'll be more effective in the half court offense
and playoff basketball is half court basketball

but defensively they're going to suffer from the perimeter while their interior defense improves

biggest issue isn't Shaq being a shell of his former self
15pts 8rebounds and 1.5blocks with 60 percent from the field without Nash is still pretty damn good! Those are Bynums numbers people
Here's the major issue SHAQ IS OUT OF SHAPE! and SHAQ is Injury prone now! and thats the major concern
The last issue is now Nash's lack of defense plays a heavier role.
Kobe and other shooters are going to eat them alive.
and like they said, if Nash can't keep Pt Guards out of the Lane, Shaq is gonna be in foul trouble constantly.
But it does help if Shaq can get in Shape and stay healthy
l

[boozehound]

What a terrible trade for Phoenix. Lakers got them this shook that they're about to pull this off? You gamble on Shaq and he'll get injured( eventually right), what do you do? Start Brian Skinner and put Amare back at C? I just don't see it working and even a healthy Shaq isn't what he once was. I'd do it if I were Miami.
nah, start frenchy at the 4 and hill at the 3, bring skinner in and slide fenchy over (or play a guard at the backup 3). I think dallas trading for shaq is what really got them scared. they know they cant win with that current run n gun. hell the lakers pre trade have already taken them what... 2 times? m

[Chocogrease]

Shaq can still play!:cheers: :roll: :bowdown: :pimp: :party:

[guy]

As a Suns fan, this is how I see it:
1) Go ahead with it and trade Marion/Banks for Shaq = high risk, lower regular season wins, but potentially more rewards in the playoffs against the Lakers/Spurs/Utah etc.


Thats how I see it, unless Shaq doesnt make it to the playoffs. But I'm curious, has Shaq ever missed a playoff game? I don't recall, I know for a fact he hasn't missed many, so I think in the playoffs they should be able to count on him, but obviously at his age its not a guarantee.

[MrEncinas]

It looks bad, but in my personal opinion, the suns window is slowly closing, i dont think they can win it all with their current squad, so by making this trade they are deffinently gambling big time, but it could very well result in a ring if it works out...

what does miami get? i dont think marion is a good second option, i cant see miami going anywhere with him...

who cares if shaq only plays 50 games a season, he will be there when the playoffs come and thats all that matters, suns can get a top seed purely through nash, amare and their good role players...

I actually like the idea of Shaq in pheonix, i must be the only one...
I understand what your saying but your not taking the CAP situations for both teams into account.

[Optimus Prime]

I just read the OP. Good post. :applause:

However, the Suns realize they aren't even Top 3 in the West. That would be San Antonio, LA and Dallas. They also realize they aren't Top 5 in the league. That would be SA, LA, Dallas, Boston and Detroit. They've gutted their future to save a few bucks now. If the Suns are going to win it, it has to be within the next two years.

They saw the writing on the wall, and had to make moves to be a contender now. Shaq could do that for him. Or maybe not, but they have to try instead of just let it slip away.

The Suns "core" has been together what...3 years? More? How much longer is needed for them? They had their chance. Time to change gears.

[LJJ]

I don't like the trade but then again I do agree with the stategy. Those borderline playoffs teams usually don't take the risk to make that one make it or break it move. Tehy just think: Maybe we'll get lucky next year, and let their borderline championship core age without a ring in the end.

I just think they could have gotten a better deal.

[Meticode]

I don't think Shaq will fit in great with the Suns run-n-gun offense. I honestly just don't understand the trade. Suns never have trouble scoring points, it's always defense, how is an aging Shaq with a bad hip going to improve defense (when he can barely get back on D as it is) versus having Shawn Marion on the team who can score, rebound, and block some shots here and there while keeping up with the rest of the team in that style of offense?

[bk33]

is shaq really that much different than say Big Z? would the suns have traded marion and pay Big Z 40mill? i think they panicked.

[eeeeeebro]

20 - 10 - 3

[Kobe24]

It's not even official yet. Shaq wouldn't get those numbers though.

[Make It Rain]

20 - 10 - 3
20 missed games, 10 cheeseburgers, 3 milkshakes?

[Kombo]

16-9 - 25 mins

[eeeeeebro]

20 points 10 rebounds 3 blocks

[Kungfro]

I don't think Pheonix plans on playing shaq much until the playoffs, so even if he does play better, his stats shouldn't change much. That is if this trade goes through.

[eeeeeebro]

pheonix is gonna make Shaq RUN and run and run... he is gonna be defensive which means he will be not used to score.. but i believe he will end up scoring alot anyways cause he is shaq...

[lakerfreak]

7 ppg, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks.

that is if they are a running team....if they play halfcourt then:

12 ppg, 8 rpg, 3 apg, 2 blocks.

[qrich]

8 points, 14 boards, 2.5 blocks

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

20 - 10 - 3



:roll:

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

20 missed games, 10 cheeseburgers, 3 milkshakes?


:applause:

[Bulls08Champs]

10 points, 7 rebounds, 1 block

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

8 points, 14 boards, 2.5 blocks


sounds about right. i hope he gets that many boards. shaq doesn't really like to rebound....

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

10 points, 7 rebounds, 1 block


you nailed it.



the question is..with shaq being slow...the run and gun offense will be off track...the suns won't have easy buckets...meaning players will get lesser points all around..

[A.M.G.]

Cheeseburger, French Fries, Dr. Pepper, Apple Pie...

[ElPigto]

pheonix is gonna make Shaq RUN and run and run... he is gonna be defensive which means he will be not used to score.. but i believe he will end up scoring alot anyways cause he is shaq...

No they aren't. Stop being stupid.

[catzhernandez]

16-9 - 25 mins
EXACTLY what I was gonna predict. Scary.

[crisoner]

20 missed games, 10 cheeseburgers, 3 milkshakes?

Ummmmmm...that made me hungry. I'm going to Inn and Out.

http://www.circa1973.net/bossanova/linkable/burger.JPG

[qrich]

Ummmmmm...that made me hungry. I'm going to Inn and Out.

http://www.circa1973.net/bossanova/linkable/burger.JPG

In N Out :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Feel bad for everyone who hasn't had a chance to try it, easily has the best burgers for a chain.

[daboywonder2002]

the problem i have with this deal is that yes shaq said all the right things about deferring to d-wade. but now he is gonna play what 3rd or 4th fiddle to his teammates. i just hope nash doesnt start sucking up to shaq. dont force feed him the ball in the paint. i just see shaq getting lazy if they dont get him the ball. the only positive i see out of this is that diaw gets more minutes. hopefully he can give about the same numbers that marion did.

[The Answer]

A question for Miami fans: since you guys have been struggling so much this season, has Shaq just been going through the motions? Is that part of the reason for his statistical decline, or is it entirely due to a decrease in his physical abilities and injury problems? I honestly don't know, as I haven't seen hardly any Heat games this year. If so, I think the trade could rejuvenate him to some degree. Granted, he's not going to suddenly become prime Shaq again, but 17 and 8 isn't completely out of the question.

[and1]

if he gets healthy, he'll be posting 15-10 in the playoffs

[Make It Rain]

Ummmmmm...that made me hungry. I'm going to Inn and Out.

http://www.circa1973.net/bossanova/linkable/burger.JPG
Man I wish we had that here. I went to Cali once and I swear that place has the world's best cheeseburger.

[The Answer]

8 points, 14 boards, 2.5 blocks

You really think Shaq is capable of pulling down 14 boards per game? Though he may get a couple more due to an increase in pace, I think that's a highly inacurate prediction. He'll be lucky to eclipse 10.


20 points 10 rebounds 3 blocks

This prediction also seems overly optimistic. I've always been a big Shaq fan, but it's time to face the facts; his days as a 20/10 player are over.

[kgisbigticket]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0206shaqlatest.html


Shaquille O'Neal delivered a title to the Miami Heat and he hopes to do the same for the Phoenix Suns .

O'Neal spoke with Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire on Tuesday.

"I will not let you down," O'Neal told Nash on the phone.

According to the report in the Arizona Republic, O'Neal is down to 312 pounds and is expected to easily pass his physical

[bomber]

if he gets healthy, he'll be posting 15-10 in the playoffs

Yeah big if. Thats about right with 3 assists and 1.5 blocks.

He's presence and D will be far more valuable come playoff time than his numbers. Moving Amare to the 4 and commanding a double team is what will make the difference.

[lakerfreak]

:roll:

too late!

Seriously though the only way I see this working is if they instill a defensive game plan and play a slow paced half court offense.

Unlikely.

[Kobe24]

Already posted in the mega Shaq thread.

[bjtrdff]

'And by the way, all that racism crap I spouted when you won your MVP, forget about it. I never said it. In fact, I said the opposite. kazaam.'

[i seen hippos]

I've never been a big fan of Shaq's persona, but I'd love to see him go out on top including a WCF win over the Lakers. I've always liked Kobe more, but he has some years to win another title. I want to see him go beserk on Bynum.

[The Answer]

:roll:

too late!

Seriously though the only way I see this working is if they instill a defensive game plan and play a slow paced half court offense.

Unlikely.

Why do you say that? Not all five players need to run up and down the court constantly in an uptempo offense. Do you think a 40 year old Kareem was sprinting up and down the court at the end of the showtime era? Of course not. A big part of his job was to start breaks with his rebounding, shot blocking, and outlet passing skill. Then, in the half court situations, the Lakers could always go inside to him for an easy two. I honestly see no reason why Shaq can't play a similar role for the Suns; well, except for possible injuries I guess.

[ElPigto]

Why do you say that? Not all five players need to run up and down the court constantly in an uptempo offense. Do you think a 40 year old Kareem was sprinting up and down the court at the end of the showtime era? Of course not. A big part of his job was to start breaks with his rebounding, shot blocking, and outlet passing skill. Then, in the half court situations, the Lakers could always go inside to him for an easy two. I honestly see no reason why Shaq can't play a similar role for the Suns; well, except for possible injuries I guess.

I am glad that I am not the only one thinking this way. What is it with NBA fans thinking that you have to get 5 running in order to complete a fast break?

All you need is two players to three players to get a good fast break going and everything else should be fine.

[crisoner]

You know what though....

You can't just count out a motivated Shaq.
I know he's 36 etc. but Shaq proved me wrong winning a title in Miami.

He could do it again.

[Richie2k6]

Why do you say that? Not all five players need to run up and down the court constantly in an uptempo offense. Do you think a 40 year old Kareem was sprinting up and down the court at the end of the showtime era? Of course not. A big part of his job was to start breaks with his rebounding, shot blocking, and outlet passing skill. Then, in the half court situations, the Lakers could always go inside to him for an easy two. I honestly see no reason why Shaq can't play a similar role for the Suns; well, except for possible injuries I guess.
Finally somebody says it. Shaq isn't going to have to sprint like Rip Hamilton to fit in the offense.

[StroShow4]

O'Neal is down to 312 pounds

:oldlol:

[eauclaire447]

Why do you say that? Not all five players need to run up and down the court constantly in an uptempo offense. Do you think a 40 year old Kareem was sprinting up and down the court at the end of the showtime era? Of course not. A big part of his job was to start breaks with his rebounding, shot blocking, and outlet passing skill. Then, in the half court situations, the Lakers could always go inside to him for an easy two. I honestly see no reason why Shaq can't play a similar role for the Suns; well, except for possible injuries I guess.
this is the best post i have read in a while!!! great job:D

[The Answer]

this is the best post i have read in a while!!! great job:D

Thanks.

[ChrisConley]

'And by the way, all that racism crap I spouted when you won your MVP, forget about it. I never said it. In fact, I said the opposite. kazaam.'

link please.

i can't any quote where shaq insinuates nash got mvp b/c he's white.

[LongBeachLakers]

Reminds me of Kwame Brown telling Jordan, "if you draft me, you'll never regret it."

[bjtrdff]

I don't remember the exact quote. But it was around when Nash narrowly beat Shaq for MVP, and it was brought up, and Shaq had a few comments on it. So they're out there.

Not a big deal, but just mildly amusing considering he's going to Phoenix.

[mjbulls23]

I can't count out Shaq.... he might not be what he once was, but motivation can greatly change the way a player plays ala Shaq/Vince Carter.....

[John Starks]

Why do you say that? Not all five players need to run up and down the court constantly in an uptempo offense. Do you think a 40 year old Kareem was sprinting up and down the court at the end of the showtime era? Of course not. A big part of his job was to start breaks with his rebounding, shot blocking, and outlet passing skill. Then, in the half court situations, the Lakers could always go inside to him for an easy two. I honestly see no reason why Shaq can't play a similar role for the Suns; well, except for possible injuries I guess.

No, but he will need to run and move and get to the ball. He's been to injured or too old or too banged up or too slow to do it for about 18 mos. The doubters -- me -- go by the evidence of Shaq they see, not the guy they'd ike to remember.

I don't think its a lack of inspiration or motivation, its a lack of health and mobility.

[TMac&Luther]

Reminds me of Kwame Brown telling Jordan, "if you draft me, you'll never regret it."

Yep, just like it.......except for the fact that Shaq is a proven champ who's been to the top multiple times on multiple teams and Kwame Brown is a turd bust who's never done anything....other than that, it's just like it.

[Valliant13]

'And by the way, all that racism crap I spouted when you won your MVP, forget about it. I never said it. In fact, I said the opposite. kazaam.'

The Kazaam was very nice touch.

[guy]

At least he seems really motivated. This trade isnt as bad as it seems from a basketball AND financial perspective. From a basketball perspective, its not like the Marion-Suns team has won anything nor were they going to. If they were going to win, they would've by now, not anytime in the future considering how much stronger the West is now. A change was needed, their formula wasn't working. Now you can say they could've gotten a better deal for Marion, but could they have really? They're looking for interior defense and rebounding, and I heard they tried to get Dalembert but that didnt work out, so it sounds like Shaq wasn't their first option anyway. And from a financial perspective Marion wanted a big extension and Banks was for the next 4 years. Its basically the same and now after 2010, when guys like Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are free agents, the Suns will have $33 million off the books.

[veilside23]

Reminds me of Kwame Brown telling Jordan, "if you draft me, you'll never regret it."

even a 40 year old shaq would be milestone away from the bricking layup of kwame who brown...

[ElPigto]

No, but he will need to run and move and get to the ball. He's been to injured or too old or too banged up or too slow to do it for about 18 mos. The doubters -- me -- go by the evidence of Shaq they see, not the guy they'd ike to remember.

I don't think its a lack of inspiration or motivation, its a lack of health and mobility.

It's not as if Shaq is completely motionless. I'm sure he can get in good enough shape to park his ass in the post and create spacing for others.

I don't see how this affects this offense at all. It's the defense I'd worry about.

[Flashbeanie]

Shaq can still play. Just look at how he played against the Suns.

[Interminator]

12 Points 7 Rebounds 2 Blocks

While Shawn Marion averages 21/11

[glidedrxlr22]

He's not gonna do worse than his 14 and 8 he was getting on a lousy Miami team. Nash and the unselfish players on the Suns will see to it.

[SRZ66]

30/15/5 in 25 min

[w00terz]

15/8/5

[Interminator]

He's not gonna do worse than his 14 and 8 he was getting on a lousy Miami team. Nash and the unselfish players on the Suns will see to it.
You sure,because basically the same team on the court was the same team who won a NBA Championship 2 years ago.
:oldlol:

You do realize,Shaq was getting the ball a lot but he doesnt have any type of post moves that isnt related to backing down his man and well....he isnt as good as he used to be.

[Shepseskaf]

12 Points 7 Rebounds 2 Blocks
I agree with the points and rebound, but to average 2 blocks...? Can he even get off the floor anymore?

[ElPigto]

You sure,because basically the same team on the court was the same team who won a NBA Championship 2 years ago.
:oldlol:

You do realize,Shaq was getting the ball a lot but he doesnt have any type of post moves that isnt related to backing down his man and well....he isnt as good as he used to be.

The Suns have capable shooters as well as slashers. Trust me, Shaq's job has gotten a bit easier now.

Of course he does have a couple of other post moves. For a big man he has excellent footwork and he has that nice little hook shot.

[elz]

I PREDICT 95 PERCENT FROM THE FIELD

He'll miss one alley oop

[glidedrxlr22]

You sure,because basically the same team on the court was the same team who won a NBA Championship 2 years ago.
:oldlol:

You do realize,Shaq was getting the ball a lot but he doesnt have any type of post moves that isnt related to backing down his man and well....he isnt as good as he used to be.

Back then they were better. The record proves it and he was getting more touches. He complained about his lack of touches this year. True he isn't as good as he used to be, but the 2 time mvp, Steve Nash, knows how to make teammates better.

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

shaq: 50 pts / 25 rebs / 12 ast / 17 blocks

[Shepseskaf]

Do you think a 40 year old Kareem was sprinting up and down the court at the end of the showtime era? Of course not. A big part of his job was to start breaks with his rebounding, shot blocking, and outlet passing skill.
All true, but Kareem was a workout fanatic who kept himself in tip-top shape throughout his caree. Shaq has never done that and now his body is betraying him. So, I think that while I understand what's being said, a Kareem-Shaq direct comparison isn't the best one.

[Sharas]

motivation might be the key thing here. shaq will probably be dying to stick it to the lakers and kobe, and who knows, it might motivate him to the point he'll even get in shape.

[ChiBulls7]

In N Out :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Feel bad for everyone who hasn't had a chance to try it, easily has the best burgers for a chain.


Just had two double double's and fries animal style. Anyways, I don't see shaq producing much more than he does in Miami... But I do see Amare's numbers going up.

[StroShow4]

20 points 10 rebounds 3 blocks

did someone invent a time machine?

[mark]

I predict 10 double whoppers with bacon per day, 12 big macs, 11 quarter pounders.

[bdreason]

I am glad that I am not the only one thinking this way. What is it with NBA fans thinking that you have to get 5 running in order to complete a fast break?

All you need is two players to three players to get a good fast break going and everything else should be fine.

The Suns just traded away their best fast break player.

[A.M.G.]

Has this trade actually happened yet? I mean, the Suns are First in the uber-tough Western Conference, do they really want to make such a major move? I like what it could do for them in the playoffs if Shaq is at least somewhat fit and healthy, but what if he can't get there anymore?

[Hstone]

The Suns just traded away their best fast break player.
What they traded Steve Nash lol

[bdreason]

12 points
8 rebounds
1 block

[Knoe Itawl]

I am glad that I am not the only one thinking this way. What is it with NBA fans thinking that you have to get 5 running in order to complete a fast break?

All you need is two players to three players to get a good fast break going and everything else should be fine.

Because you have little kids on here that dont' kow anything about basketball.

I think Shaq, if he still has something left in the tank, could be a great addition to Phoenix. As has already been pointed out, ala Kareem he doesn't have to be leading fast breaks. All he has to do is rebound solidly, draw doubles, play smart ball and intimidate.

If he's up to it, Phoenix could be deadly regardless of what the naysayers think. They weren't getting anywhere with what they had anyway.

[Killer_Instinct]

This is hilarious....Wasn't he recently so happy in Miami? Wasn't Wade the best guy he's ever played with? Wasn't Pat the best coach he's ever had? How time changes thing....

[bjtrdff]

I think that Shaq will obviously have an extra spring in his step when he steps on the court in Phx.

I wouldn't do it if I was Phx, BUT if Shaq stays out a bit, is actually motivated and gets in game shape in time to return for a few weeks before the playoffs, this could be dangerous. Shaq is so much attitude, and if he does get Phx it's first title after a ton of let downs, he'll really cement some of his legacy.

[Heilige]

This is hilarious....Wasn't he recently so happy in Miami? Wasn't Wade the best guy he's ever played with? Wasn't Pat the best coach he's ever had? How time changes thing....


How does Wade feel about all of this?

[starface]

I think people are underestimating this trade.

Size wins in this league.

The Suns previously had Amare Stoudamire at center. Now they have Shaquille O'Neal at center AND Amare Stoudamire at power forward! That's a beastly frontcourt if you have a pg who can get them both involved the right way. Oh yeah, the Suns have 2-time MVP Steve Nash at point guard. Not to mention a good supporting cast of Grant Hill, Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa.

This was a good trade. Look out for Phoenix.

[i seen hippos]

I think people are underestimating this trade.

Size wins in this league.

The Suns previously had Amare Stoudamire at center. Now they have Shaquille O'Neal at center AND Amare Stoudamire at power forward! That's a beastly frontcourt if you have a pg who can get them both involved the right way. Oh yeah, the Suns have 2-time MVP Steve Nash at point guard. Not to mention a good supporting cast of Grant Hill, Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa.

This was a good trade. Look out for Phoenix.

We will know if it's good or not when they play a team with a big frontcourt in the playoffs. If they eliminate one or two of Dallas, LA and SA, it will be one of the best trades ever.

[Killer_Instinct]

How does Wade feel about all of this?


That's actually what I've thought about also. Not much he can do to stop the trade, but he's been pretty quiet about it. Who would have though? :confusedshrug:

[starface]

Besides, people are acting like Shaq's gonna be the same guy in Phoenix as he was in Miami this year. Miami sucked and Shaq knew it so he slacked off. Can you blame him? When you've been the biggest human being on the planet for 36 years, it takes a toll on your body. Why exert yourself for that Miami team? Shaq knows this Phoenix team is in contention and a lot of people are counting on him, not to mention he obviously wants to get that 5th ring that Riles doesnt have just to stick it to him.

You can count on Shaq being a force in Phoenix. Book it.

[DieHardBullsFan]

12 points
8 rebounds
1 block

10 & 7

[starface]

20 missed games, 10 cheeseburgers, 3 milkshakes?

:bowdown:

[starface]

15 and 10

He averaged 8 rebounds in Miami this year, and Phoenix takes a lot more shots. Plus they're not gonna go through him on offense as much as Miami did which will keep his offensive fouls down and keep him in the game longer.

[Brewer]

11 ppg
7 rpg
1 bpg

[BnchClearNBrawlR]

"I bet you Jerry Buss spit up his cosmopolitan as he was drinking and driving when he heard Shaq got traded to Phoenix."
That EASY PATH to the NBA TITLE just hit a HUGE SHAQ-SIZED SPEED BUMP.

"LA Lakers still get the ring"

[luigi>mario]

Is it possible that trading away 6'7-230, for 7'1-400 ends up making you a worse rebounding team? Yes...yes it is.

[bada bing]

Besides, people are acting like Shaq's gonna be the same guy in Phoenix as he was in Miami this year. Miami sucked and Shaq knew it so he slacked off. Can you blame him? When you've been the biggest human being on the planet for 36 years, it takes a toll on your body. Why exert yourself for that Miami team? Shaq knows this Phoenix team is in contention and a lot of people are counting on him, not to mention he obviously wants to get that 5th ring that Riles doesnt have just to stick it to him.

You can count on Shaq being a force in Phoenix. Book it.

i agree. The suns dont need shaq to dominate like he did before. The suns already have an insane team. Shaq is still a precence in the paint on both the offensive and defensive end. Plus, what has Shawn Marion done in the playoffs for the suns? He has been mostly absent and has not made a huge impact for the suns.

finally, a motivated shaq is as insane as it gets. Miami knows it and now Suns fans will know it.

[johndough]

Killer Instinct wrote:

This is hilarious....Wasn't he recently so happy in Miami? Wasn't Wade the best guy he's ever played with? Wasn't Pat the best coach he's ever had? How time changes thing....

Do you honestly think this is about BASKETBALL?

[PhxFanAtBirth]

Is it possible that trading away 6'7-230, for 7'1-400 ends up making you a worse rebounding team? Yes...yes it is.

312 and I and everybody else on here should wait to pass judgement on this trade until we actually see them take the floor together.

And the answer to your question is: What the hell does it matter when that certain 230 LB player completely disappears in the Playoffs anyway?!

[ElPigto]

The Suns just traded away their best fast break player.

They took a risk. Whether it pays off or not is yet to be known, but one thing is for sure, Marion is only one component of their fastbreak basketball; they still have Nash (the engine) with Barbosa, Bell, Hill, and Amare still running the break.

I really do recommend they sign Mike Harris. Like I mentioned earlier, he had a great training camp with the Rockets as well as good summer league. Guy is tough rebounder who can run and hit a mid range shot. I honestly think he would be a great fit with the Suns.

[picc84]

How many minutes do people expect shaq to play, even if healthy?

[elementally morale]

How many games 'til Shaq calls Nash 'the best player in the NBA'? 5? 10?

[PhxFanAtBirth]

How many minutes do people expect shaq to play, even if healthy?

30 (Light Practices)

18 10 and 5 assists, there's no effing way his production goes down.

[ElPigto]

How many games 'til Shaq calls Nash 'the best player in the NBA'? 5? 10?

Won't be long.

Sup EM, haven't seen you in a while (since your last retirement).

[elementally morale]

The Suns previously had Amare Stoudamire at center. Now they have Shaquille O'Neal at center AND Amare Stoudamire at power forward!


Kind of a counterpunch to the Gasol trade and the twin towers of Gasol and Bynum in my eyes.

[elementally morale]

Won't be long.

Sup EM, haven't seen you in a while (since your last retirement).

I don't want to let you down but I'm not sure how much longer you're going to see me posting. I've been here almost every day reading some of the threads but lost nearly all my motivation to post for some reason. I doubt it'll come back... but we shall see.

[ElPigto]

I don't want to let you down but I'm not sure how much longer you're going to see me posting. I've been here almost every day reading some of the threads but lost nearly all my motivation to post for some reason. I doubt it'll come back... but we shall see.

It's all good. I see you more as on and off sort of poster. I would not be able to resist posting when these type of movements are happening in the NBA.

[Killer_Instinct]

Killer Instinct wrote:

This is hilarious....Wasn't he recently so happy in Miami? Wasn't Wade the best guy he's ever played with? Wasn't Pat the best coach he's ever had? How time changes thing....

Do you honestly think this is about BASKETBALL?

I don't think anyone truly knows the reason....whatever the cause, if Shaq meant half the B/S he's said in the past, he would not be so happy to go. By telling Nash he won't let him down dosen't seem like he's resisting the idea.

[Aussie Dunker]

With Shaq on the squad, teams are FORCED to double him, no matter how passed his prime he is still a presence, this will open the floor up for Amare and he will dominate, Shaq acting nearly as a decoy on offense... but i expect Shaq to score about 18ppg in the suns offense,

Hack a Shaq could indeed big a problem to the suns tho...

[Penny4MVP2k]

I don't want to let you down but I'm not sure how much longer you're going to see me posting. I've been here almost every day reading some of the threads but lost nearly all my motivation to post for some reason. I doubt it'll come back... but we shall see.

Maybe we need to trade you to Phoenix too... :D

[elementally morale]

It's all good. I see you more as on and off sort of poster. I would not be able to resist posting when these type of movements are happening in the NBA.

Well, I made a (meaning: one) post on the Gasol trade earlier today... :oldlol:

[elementally morale]

30 (Light Practices)

18 10 and 5 assists, there's no effing way his production goes down.

I second that with fewer assists. 17, 9 and 3. With 1.2 bpg.

[daboywonder2002]

if you havent been watching heat games lately you would see that shaq doesnt command a doubleteam anymore. you can play single coverage on shaq. and stay at home with the shooters. all you really needed was a solid 10 and 10 guy who can play low post defense. one thing that hasnt been mentioned. i dont see how amare and shaq can co exist. yes it looks great on nba2k8. they both suck at man defense. both arent greatly known for their rebounding. both easily get into foul trouble. look, marion's numbers can be replaced. but his defense and rebounding can not. and that is what wins champinships. they should have gotten a big who can do those two things. i just think shaq is useless if he isnt dropping at least 18+ a game.

[clayton]

Obviously, they hired Shaq because of Duncan raping the **** outta them every playoff games.:D

[GreatHILL]

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/splash_shaq_080206.html


:banana:

[dffsaf9]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

THATS FU*KEN AWESOME!!!

[ChiBulls7]

man that was fast :roll:

[glidedrxlr22]

Sweet!

[Kobe24]

Pretty sick. It'd be even more awesome if they put him in street clothes on the Suns bench.

[A.M.G.]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Five Stars! That is really funny.
Oh God, I really almost laughed out loud, and I'm in a public place. I really hope that Shaq can be healthy and motivated again for two more seasons, because that will be a title.

Think about the lineup they have now:

C: Shaquille O'Neal/Brian Skinner/Sean Marks
PF: Amare Stoudamire/Boris Diaw
SF: Grant Hill/Alando Tucker/Eric Piatkowski
SG: Raja Bell/Leandro Barbosa
PG: Steve Nash/DJ Strawberry

It's a good thing the Suns have guys like Brian Skinner, Boris Diaw, and Leandro Barbosa, who can play multiple positions.

[gts]

Thing that strikes me odd about the article is saying the Suns were worried about a Shaq, Dirk, Howard front line. But the only mention of a Dallas trade had Howard in the deal. So they wouldn't have that lineup out there. Plus until yesterday, there were no rumblings in Dallas about a deal for Shaq.kerr may have been duped on this one.. all it takes is a mavs unidentified source saying we are talking trades with miami and it involves shaq... and voila' kerr jumps into a trade that even the suns head coach and nash have reservations about

[bisk]

woot:banana:

it's on nba.com too now

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

sweet..


good luck to shaq!!!!


awesome!!

[gabeh1018]

?? He Should Suit Up Tonight!!!

[MK2V1GP]

now whoever had stat's old 32 jersey can jus tape a oneal over stoudemire or have the nameplate replaced instead of buying a whole new jersey.

man this is weird. the nba's turning upside down it seems with all these weird trades, whats next? kidd to atl for williams?

[PejaNowitzki]

With all the talk about the Suns and Shaq, I think what is being lost is that Marion is going to a perfect situation. He will get a lot more attention in Miami, but yet does not have to be "the guy." He can be the secondary guy to Wade and if they are healthy, will be a hell of a 1-2 combo. I expect Miami to win more games now, and with their upcoming draft pick, should be a pretty exciting unit for next season. Marcus Banks should see more playing time in Miami and he is going to prove to be a much more valuable asset there then he was to Phoenix.

[reppy]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/262/shaqphxvc9.png

(Not my Photoshop.)

[CySniper]

I'm thinking the same as you, Marion is going to get more attention which he wants, and even though Miami is going nowhere this season, they will become a solid team in then next season if everything goes right

[PejaNowitzki]

?? He Should Suit Up Tonight!!!



February 20th. :D


:rockon:

[Kobe24]

Probably some time next week.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

miami is the perfect place but the heat suck. anyways marion gets to put up good stats on a stinker team and opt out at the end of the year in hopes of his last big deal.

[CySniper]

its going to look weird seeing him as a sun.........

[HYJ]

12 pts 11 reb 4 ast 2 blks

25-30 mins

[PejaNowitzki]

miami is the perfect place but the heat suck. anyways marion gets to put up good stats on a stinker team and opt out at the end of the year in hopes of his last big deal.



Why do the Heat suck? No other team that can afford him is doing all that great either. I could see him going to Atlanta to play with Joe Johnson again, but Marion has a massive ego and being in Miami will satisfy that. Him and Wade leading the Heat out of the ashes will definitely tickle this guy's fancy. If the Heat can dump some of their other overpaid guys, and bring in some younger players, they could make a pretty quick turnaround, especially with a star in Wade and a semi-star in Marion.

[MTing]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/262/shaqphxvc9.png

(Not my Photoshop.)
:roll:
OMG

[catzhernandez]

No photoshops yet? :confusedshrug:

[stewen12]

he'll put up 16-10-4-2

[InfiniteBaskets]

I'm not sure what Marion can be thinking right now. He knows that if he and Wade were to play well and run n' gun with J Will, Wright, Cook, Davis etc... the Heat are gonna win more games but then their pick might slip around the 8-14 range. You can't expect to pick up a Derrick Rose or Beasley

But if he doesn't mesh, Wade and Marion decide to play 50% for the remainder of the season and then the Heat end up with either Beasley or Rose, he'll feel so incomplete from the previous season that he may not re-sign with the Heat. I believe his contract is over after this season? Or maybe it's next season. Either way, I don't think Riley is going to offer him 14 mil when he expires, probably less than 10. So Marion could very well end up leaving...

As a Heat fan, I'd prefer a guy like Marion to stay (hopefully with a paycut), then definitely get rid of Davis. Pick up Rose, and try to sign a solid center. One that can either hit the outside shot or run with the guards.

[gabeh1018]

No photoshops yet? :confusedshrug:


you can just go to suns.com


and he pops in in a SUNS jersey

ha

[LongBeachLakers]

the sun's jersey is ugly, shaq wouldn't look right in it

[starface]

you can just go to suns.com


and he pops in in a SUNS jersey

ha

heh

I see they opted to use a picture of his physique from his Laker days.

Wise choice.

[GreatHILL]

the sun's jersey is ugly, shaq wouldn't look right in it

and the lakers jersey is so fuccin disgusting!

[JohnnyBravo5]

The problem is that they have no PG or big man with Mourning out for the year. They don't have the personnel to take advantage of the things that Marion does best.

[Kobe/Bynum/Gasol]

How are you people so happy about this?

This is going to make your team slow down big time...

And Shaq is like 65%



LOL! at this trade

[WhiteMosɘs]

:roll: It's all about Shaq!

[Rockets(T-mac)]

its going to look weird seeing him as a sun.........
Tell me about I still can't believe he got traded....

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Sure Miami will give him more attention, but this is Miami would anyone really like to be there instead of the Suns? Does he really not care about winning that much? I guess he could opt out though.

[thenextgreatbigman]

they'll try to make him wades pippen.
this is really great for the heat. you get a good draft pick, try out wades side kick and if it doesn't work out he'll just opt out and they'll have cap space to sign someone else.

williams, davis and zo are all coming off the books after this year.

[kidachi]

with this trade.. I'm thinking Riley might draft DeAndre Jordan..

[kobesabi]

Marion is going to opt out, then he's going go back to the west joining Lakers to work for cheap next year so he can get a ring. That'd be funny if that happens.

[MrEncinas]

I'm actually a little worried that we may start winning more games. I really want this team to get a top 3 draft pick because I think we need it. Winning 30 games and still missing the playoffs just doesn't seem worth it.

[MrEncinas]

Marion is going to opt out, then he's going go back to the west joining Lakers to work for cheap next year so he can get a ring. That'd be funny if that happens.
He's at the point in his career that he wants to make money. The guy is turning 30 towards the end of the season not 35.

[IamRAMBO24]

He won't even play, he'll get injured and sit out for the rest of his contract. (watch I get this right). Knock on wood.

[Human Error]

He was upset over the Gasol trade, and I know that he feels comfortable now. If some of you can watch the Suns game, please let me know what Thunder Dan had to say. Thanks in advance.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Oh man I haven't seriously LOL'd at a pic in so long... damn... that's freaking hilarious.

[DCL]

a majority of people are hating on this trade, but i think steve kerr did a fine job for having the balls to pull this off. is taking in an aging shaq a gamble? in some ways, yes, but it's worth the risk because, face it, the suns weren't winning a title with their current system anyway. it's not like they're breaking away a proven guaranteed championship plan nor tearing apart something that was convincing. they tried and tried, but it's time for something fresh because that run and gun and no-half court game bullsh!t ontop of the "please come rape my ass in the middle" defense only does so much for the regular season, but that's a bullsh!t plan for the playoffs. to accept this trade, you'd just have to first acknowledge and accept the notion that the suns weren't going to win it all anyway. so you go back to basics and remind yourself that traditional teams always win it with the help of a Big Man, and when got a Big Man presence like shaq is falling on your lap, you go break a piggy bank and go get his ass.

so is shaq the answer in phoenix? we don't know yet. but we do know the old d'antoni strategy wasn't getting it done. and shawn marion wasn't going to stay for long anyway, so you might as well get rid of him for something in return. $40 million for the next two years is the price, and it's a hefty price, but shaq does bring new hope to the organization. i remember people (mostly laker fans) were talking trash too when heat first got shaq, and then he won a championship with riley. there's no guarantee of shaq bringing a championship to phoenix, but shaq has had a history of making every team he's been on a better contender, whether it was orlando, the lakers, or miami.

of course, we can all see shaq is no longer the same and has been going downhill for the past couple seasons, but some people's opinions seem quite extreme because i don't really believe he's fallen as much as people think. for the most part, i think shaq's the kind of guy who might not play his best when the team isn't doing well like miami this season. when losses keep piling up, your desire to play your a-game usually inversely diminishes. it's a common disease, and we saw it in vince carter in toronto or even t-mac with orlando too. but usually, it just takes a new trade and a new team to reinvigorate that lost desire and motivation. when shaq is on a winning team again, i think we'll see more of what's left in the diesel tank.

certainly, his role would be different with the suns, but i think he'd welcome that role because he understands a fifth championship to him is more important than being "the man" at this stage of his career. crying about touches won't be the priority; winning is. besides, he's already shown that he can be a humble character by letting d wade have the spotlight in miami, so i don't really see much ego problems with shaq being the lesser option as long as he stays on a winning team with other team-oriented teammates. and the suns are as team-oriented as it gets for any nba team.

also keep in mind the suns aren't ran by derek fisher or a jason williams. they got two-time mvp steve nash controlling the rock at almost all times, and everyone else is pass happy as well, so if shaq is in position to score, they ain't gonna miss his big ass for the bucket. and with so many outside scoring threats and another powerful force in amare stoudemire drawing away levels of defensive attention away, shaq's gonna have a ton more looks than he had in miami. and it's not like he has to bulldoze over double-teams like his old laker days. no doubt shaq's going to have a lot of easy ass baskets in phoenix. and even if he isn't scoring a lot of points, teams will always still have some defensive attention on him because, well, because he's shaq and he just has that psychological threat on any opposing coach. you think greg popovich or phil jackson is smiling and celebrating at his trade? hell no, they're sitting at their offices cursing at riley.

but going back to the topic of gambling for the now instead of playing it safe for the long-term future.... well, if you're steve kerr, you have to pull that "LET'S WIN RIGHT NOW DAMN IT" trigger because steve nash's time is already RIGHT NOW, and he's not getting any younger. your core is strong enough, so you can give up a marion. but attaining a true Big Man is never a wrong piece for any championship team, so you take it. and kerr knows the time is now too so he realizes that capturing that window of opportunity is essential. if your ultimate goal is the championship, then you really got nothing to lose if you're the suns since the suns weren't going to win it with the old way anyway. suns didn't break up the whole team. they still got viable pieces so they can still run and gun, BUT with this trade, they can now also have the option of pounding it in every so often. that multiple game plan would sound a lot better come playoff time. and stoudemire doesn't have to play out of position anymore. that guy was already a semi-beast at 5, but he'd be a real molesting thug at 4 playing alongside shaq.

[RaptorsNCowboys]

Wow this is gonna be huge

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I'm sure on his numbers but I want to see how effective the Nash and Shaq pick and roll will be.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I'm curious on how well the Nash and Shaq pick and roll will turn out.

[Bruinlove]

The have alot to lose, and they already lost it. Shawn Marion, an allstar and the only player they had who could stop Tony Parker, who when not gaurded by Marion tears the sunsets apart. He did alot for that team that no one else did, and an athelete like him is going to be missed alot. I'm one of Shaq's biggest fans, even after he left the Lakers, but I will say he's done. Atleast he's still doing his part for Laker Nation, shipping into one of our biggest rivals to completely screw up their style of play 35 games before the playoffs:cheers:

The Big Aristotle=GOAT

[w00terz]

I agree with what you say. However, the Suns have taken one of the biggest gambles this organization has ever taken....

Trading a star for another aging, decaying, deteriorating star. If the Suns lose this year (which I think is a very big possiblity given how powerful the West has gotten) it will only get worse with time. Shaq can lose motivation if they don't get far in the playoffs this year. And let's face it, the Suns aren't a good defensive team, with or without Shaq. So basically, it is this year or never.

I agree though that people are exaggerating Shaq's decrease in abilities. The Suns aren't that stupid to trade Marion for Shaq thinking that he will play at current Miami level ball. I think this could work too.

[Phenomenon]

All the sudden Shaquille will stop getting injured, stop fouling out of games and all that on a team that loves to run...yeah makes a lot of sense.

Will be interesting how that one dimensional Suns head coach will utilize a guy like Shaq with that team.

[saucy05]

8 points, 14 boards, 2.5 blocks
lol where did u get the 14 boards from?

[DCL]

it is a gamble. i never said it wasn't. but if you believe the suns weren't going to the next level anyway like i do, then this trade seems more worthwhile.

pre-shaq trade = no championship for suns.

post-shaq trade = ???

if the suns still don't win, then i don't see it as a big loss since they weren;t going to win the championship anyway. things needed to be changed. they couldn't run and gun and play no half-court game for all series in the playoffs, especially when the west is stacked with so many big men. amare is big, but he's really a 4. other than for the jordan era, i believe in the old school of thought: adding a big man presence is never a bad piece for any championship team.

[eeeeeebro]

I'm sure on his numbers but I want to see how effective the Nash and Shaq pick and roll will be.

amare will do the pick and roll. when they double amare shaq will get free dunks.

[MK_24]

I don't know if this has already happened or not, but what will the Heat do about the final seconds of that game they were supposed to play over because of Shaq fouling out when Shaq isn't even a part of the team anymore?

[thenextgreatbigman]

Obviously, they hired Shaq because of Duncan raping the **** outta them every playoff games.:D
just what i was going to say. their only problem was post defense and even at this age nobody is taking shaq in the post. they need him to clog up the paint and start the break with rebounds and outlet passes.

They'll play him around 25mins and i think he can put up 16/9/2

[eeeeeebro]

Some factors here why i said 20 - 10 - 2

1 factor this guy is 365 lbs 7-3 with shoes BIG MAN.

2 his only purpose will be to get 10 rebounds and some blocks.

3 He is going to be a part of the offense at least 1 quarter a game when amare sits out

4. the steve nash factor this man can get you the ball and get you it in no brain spots.. his passing is at least +3 - +5 points per game.

5. How are people going to double team amare if shaq is there?

6. offensive rebounds if he gets them then they are going in.

7. he has a real purpose in Life again He can win a championship 2 more years now and be one of the all time greatest Centers in the world.

8. He leaves all the bull **** he has in Miami and moves to a new life in pheonix. his wife devorsed him last summer.

[thenextgreatbigman]

Some factors here why i said 20 - 10 - 2

1 factor this guy is 365 lbs 7-3 with shoes BIG MAN.

2 his only purpose will be to get 10 rebounds and some blocks.

3 He is going to be a part of the offense at least 1 quarter a game when amare sits out

4. the steve nash factor this man can get you the ball and get you it in no brain spots.. his passing is at least +3 - +5 points per game.

5. How are people going to double team amare if shaq is there?

6. offensive rebounds if he gets them then they are going in.

7. he has a real purpose in Life again He can win a championship 2 more years now and be one of the all time greatest Centers in the world.

8. He leaves all the bull **** he has in Miami and moves to a new life in pheonix. his wife devorsed him last summer.
according to the physical he's down to 312lbs

[WhiteMosɘs]

I don't know if this has already happened or not, but what will the Heat do about the final seconds of that game they were supposed to play over because of Shaq fouling out when Shaq isn't even a part of the team anymore?

Oh yeah. Did they already play it? If not...what the hell is going to happen?

[Agent_Zero]

9 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists and about 24 DNPs.

[mlh1981]

18 PPG/9 REB/28-32 min. a game.

[hawkfan]

If I had proposed a trade like that, I would have been shot on this board.

[Noob Saibot]

can't believe this trade went down.

Shaq & Nash? but Marion and Wade should be pretty exciting to watch though.

[steve]

If I had proposed a trade like that, I would have been shot on this board.
The same is true for the Grizzlies/Lakers trade too though.

[PejaNowitzki]

Shaq-13-15 points, 8-9 rebounds, 2 blocks per game.

[luigi>mario]

It is so true. Looks like a bunch of NBA addicts from a message board could run the league better than some of the gms (who coincidentally could play better than any of us could ever dream)

[ChrisConley]

there's a lot of rebounds to pick up. suns worst in the league in rebound differential averaging 6 rpg less than their opponent. plus they lose marion's 9.9 rpg.

[iamgine]

If I had proposed a trade like that, I would have been shot on this board.
Considering how little information we all know, none of us is justified to make any trade. The same trade, if made by a person who doesn't know the real condition of the teams, nor the situation surrounding it, would warrant a shot in the head. And well deserved too.

But we do it because it's fun to play GM. :banana:

[Smokee]

Considering how little information we all know, none of us is justified to make any trade. The same trade, if made by a person who doesn't know the real condition of the teams, nor the situation surrounding it, would warrant a shot in the head. And well deserved too.

But we do it because it's fun to play GM. :banana:


actually dont sell yourself or fans short while putting GMs on some pedestal they dont belong on....for that matter coaches.

we watch the same games/players they do and thats the bottomline. Games are the clearcut evaluation of a team/players so its not like we dont know how good Shaq is right now or that Kerr knows more about Shaq right now than we do. We've all watched him and its not like Shaq is playing in some only-GM-watching league.

i guess the big variables are the owners and how they push the GM's to do stuff. Like the Clippers owner all of a sudden came out with all that crap about wanting to win now...who would've called that? :confusedshrug:

[elementally morale]

It is so true. Looks like a bunch of NBA addicts from a message board could run the league better than some of the gms

I somehow doubt it.

[evinecz]

U would be shot in the head..lol thats ish

[iamgine]

actually dont sell yourself or fans short while putting GMs on some pedestal they dont belong on....for that matter coaches.

we watch the same games/players they do and thats the bottomline. Games are the clearcut evaluation of a team/players so its not like we dont know how good Shaq is right now or that Kerr knows more about Shaq right now than we do. We've all watched him and its not like Shaq is playing in some only-GM-watching league.

i guess the big variables are the owners and how they push the GM's to do stuff. Like the Clippers owner all of a sudden came out with all that crap about wanting to win now...who would've called that? :confusedshrug:

Of course GMs make mistakes too. However, they are exposed to much more information than we have. When they make decisions, all the risks are calculated. The business risks, the owners, the fans, the financial, the players, everything. When someone who doesn't have all the information make decisions, they are basing it on limited information. In our case, very limited information.

I'm not putting the GMs on pedestal because really, some of them are not very smart, but what I am saying is that these people have much more informations than the fans, therefore the most suited person to make trades. Not us.

[Jasper]

Of course GMs make mistakes too. However, they are exposed to much more information than we have. When they make decisions, all the risks are calculated. The business risks, the owners, the fans, the financial, the players, everything. When someone who doesn't have all the information make decisions, they are basing it on limited information. In our case, very limited information.

I'm not putting the GMs on pedestal because really, some of them are not very smart, but what I am saying is that these people have much more informations than the fans, therefore the most suited person to make trades. Not us.

Smokee and you are both correct -
Owners WANT Championships
Teams have scouts & stat sheets on all related to efficience.

Bottom line - Suns want a championship now because they know Nash is getting driven to the ground ... just look at T-mac's back .

[slaman]

Shaq Trade: Riley assesses Marion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy6ArmMAycE

[lakears]

I'm interested to see the sun's new style of play with shaq :D Should be interesting to watch their first game with shaq :banana:

[luigi>mario]

I would like to see Miami get some high octane offense now. Get some more youth too.

[evinecz]

How would suns play with shaq?? They would have to slow their pace down i guess

[iamgine]

How would suns play with shaq?? They would have to slow their pace down i guess
No they have to increase it. Shaq will be on the defensive end rebounding and throwing fast-break passes.

[Bruinlove]

No they have to increase it. Shaq will be on the defensive end rebounding and throwing fast-break passes.
Haha you're a retard if you think that will work, Suns going 4v5 every play and Shaq just standing under the other teams backboard

[SoCalMike]

Is Shaq even gonna play? His hip is hurting...

What a lame trade! Riley must be laughing all the way to the bank!

Yeah, Shaq will have perhaps a few decent games to start, but he will fall back to his normal pattern that he is in at this stage in his career.


:pimp:

[Vendetta]

Pat Riley just listed a bunch of statistics with a bunch of generic fluff around them "he does a lot of things". Lol. Sounds like he doesn't know ****.

[Koolbreeze07]

Not too many replies I see. Man do you know what this reminds me of? The '96 Rockets trade for Charles Barkley. Fresh off of a back to back championship campaign Carrol Dawson had the bright idea to trade him for Robert Horry and Sam Cassel. Barkley's fat ass in my opinion ruined the following team. Bringing in Scottie was dumb too. It's like he was playing damn NBA Live. Damn Shawn Marion was the glue that kept it altogether. They just could'nt leave well enough alone. They STILL need to play defense to win. At least a little. How the hell do they expect to win the chip now? Shaq just does'nt fit in with their system.

[ChrisConley]

espn just said shaq is out at least through the all-star game. great move suns! give up shawn and marcus for a benchwarmer.

[kidachi]

haha yeah, this is what i mean on the thread i made yesterday..

our trade ideas weren't that stupid and unrealistic after all..

[bagelred]

This Shaq trade is too good to be true.

The potential for disaster is enormous.....OR.....the potential for Kerr to be a genius is equally enormous.

The Suns are the most interesting scientific experiment in the history of the NBA. The one combination of player-team you would never think would happen, just happened. Shaq is nicknamed Superman, but this trade is Bizarro. (get it?)

Hold on tight....its gonna be a bumpy ride......

Every Suns game is now required viewing, just to see what happens.......

[Vendetta]

Here's the thing... the Suns most likely weren't going to win the title with their roster as is, even if they had the best record in the West... just wouldn't have gotten it done.

This move is either going to take them either further out of contention or it's going to cement them as actual contenders.

[bagelred]

I will say this. When it comes to Shaq, Riley is a genius.

Trades for Shaq. Wins a championship. Shaq gets old. Trades him. Gets Shawn Marion. It's like he purchased a product called "Rent-a-Shaq".

Holy crap, that's amazing....Riley must be giddy.....

[InfiniteBaskets]

Haha you're a retard if you think that will work, Suns going 4v5 every play and Shaq just standing under the other teams backboard

I don't know... When the suns play speed ball, a shot goes up when it's still 2 V 3 or 2 V 4 on the offensive end. I feel like when Shaq's in the game, he's gonna be for defensive purposes and any time a shot doesn't go in, Shaq should stay back and take his sweet time while the Suns jack up a shot regardless of numbers. If the other team does score, then maybe you can expect the Suns to try and run a half-court with Shaq.

[ChrisConley]

i don't see how this can help them. they will likely lose ground in the playoff seeding w/o marion as shaq heals his hip the next few weeks (NO tonight, Lakers, Dallas, Boston, Detroit, GS). if they enter the playoffs with a 6 seed instead of a 2 seed, they could be in much worse shape.

[dafunkphenom]

I'm interested in seeing how much the Heat improve. With D-Wade getting healthy and he's in Barkley's fav 5. Playing in the East, they might surprise some teams even though they'll be out of the playoffs. The fact that they shredded the salary of the "out of gas" Diesel stands good for the future. I predict they will be a top 3 team in the East as early as next year.

[Smokee]

I was just listening to the Dan Patrick show and he said in the offseason they sent GM's a poll of if they could have any player in the NBA who would it be, and supposedly they voted overwhelmingly in favor of Shaq :rolleyes:

[new noise]

This Shaq trade is too good to be true.

The potential for disaster is enormous.....OR.....the potential for Kerr to be a genius is equally enormous.

Care to elaborate on that one? Apparently I've had my hands over my ears all day, just found out about the trade now so I'm still wrapping my head around it.

Somebody's gonna need to break it down for me. What's Kerr's logic here, really?

[evinecz]

Riley is very smart...

[BIZARRO]

I was just listening to the Dan Patrick show and he said in the offseason they sent GM's a poll of if they could have any player in the NBA who would it be, and supposedly they voted overwhelmingly in favor of Shaq :rolleyes:

Yeah, crazy to think about now.


But this trade all depends on how much Shaq has left IF motivated.

Regardless, it would be the GREATEST thing in the world for all non-Laker fans to have a Shaq/Suns team knock out the Kobe-led Lakers.

Needless to say TNT will be please for their ratings. :)

[BIZARRO]

This Shaq trade is too good to be true.

The potential for disaster is enormous.....OR.....the potential for Kerr to be a genius is equally enormous.

The Suns are the most interesting scientific experiment in the history of the NBA. The one combination of player-team you would never think would happen, just happened. Shaq is nicknamed Superman, but this trade is Bizarro. (get it?)

Hold on tight....its gonna be a bumpy ride......

Every Suns game is now required viewing, just to see what happens.......



I resemble that remark. :lol:

[Done_And_Done]

I was just listening to the Dan Patrick show and he said in the offseason they sent GM's a poll of if they could have any player in the NBA who would it be, and supposedly they voted overwhelmingly in favor of Shaq :rolleyes:

Was he speaking in terms of an acquisation before heading into the playoffs or just a flat out assesment of who they would like to have on their team?

Bottom line, I would take Diesel on my playoff roster any day...

[MeloMike]

13, 9 (4), 2, 1 blk, 25-30 mins/gm

() being offensive boards

[amfirst]

Suns are so stup1d. I can't believe someone is dumb enough to do this trade. Shaq is done and useless. This trade is worst than Memphis trading gasol for Kwame, draft picks, and cap relief. At least they had a reason to do it. :hammerhead:

[guy]

it is a gamble. i never said it wasn't. but if you believe the suns weren't going to the next level anyway like i do, then this trade seems more worthwhile.

pre-shaq trade = no championship for suns.

post-shaq trade = ???

if the suns still don't win, then i don't see it as a big loss since they weren;t going to win the championship anyway. things needed to be changed. they couldn't run and gun and play no half-court game for all series in the playoffs, especially when the west is stacked with so many big men. amare is big, but he's really a 4. other than for the jordan era, i believe in the old school of thought: adding a big man presence is never a bad piece for any championship team.

I totally agree. But I was just thinking how much the Suns are hating themselves for not getting that Garnett deal done last summer. I know they had to give up either Marion or Stoudemire + filler for him. I know they are kicking themselves in the head, cause basically as a result of not making that deal, they make this one. Shaq was the best possible deal they could've gotten, but obviously Garnett last summer would've been wayyy better.

[picc84]

They have plenty to lose. ESPN reports Shaq is gonna be sidelined for another 2 weeks, and there's no guarantee he wont get injured again. The next 2 weeks for the Suns is not exactly an easy schedule either.

[VCMVP1551]

16 ppg, 10 rpg, 3 apg, 2 bpg, 62 FG%, 30 mpg. And wow is Shaq really down to 312 pounds? He was 315 when he was in great shape in 1999-2000 and he admitted to being 365 at one point despite being 7-1 barefoot. No way is he 400 pounds and btw Marion is only 6-5 in reality and he could grab about 10 rpg so Shaq should be able to.

[ChrisConley]

nothing to lose but the number one seed in the west.

they might have beaten the spurs last year if not for the suspensions. not saying they would, just that it was close. no one can say that they definitively couldn't win it all just becasue they haven't. grant hill was a major acquisition. plus it's an even number year, so the spurs are a nonfactor. i don't know. i'm not a suns fan, but i'm not necessarily convinced that they couldn't win with this system. if i was, then i'd agree wholeheartedly.

[bk33]

they had shawn marion's trade value to lose.

[iamgine]

Haha you're a retard if you think that will work, Suns going 4v5 every play and Shaq just standing under the other teams backboard

its called fast break for a reason....it's fast!.

And not every play wth is wrong with you. Suns is also capable of slowing down the offense. Have you watch them play at all? With Shaq inside, more guys outside will be open and we all know the Suns can hit threes.

[Smokee]

Here's the thing... the Suns most likely weren't going to win the title with their roster as is, even if they had the best record in the West... just wouldn't have gotten it done.

This move is either going to take them either further out of contention or it's going to cement them as actual contenders.


but the problem with being taken further out of contention is it being known as a terrible trade especially if Shaq gets hurt and doesnt produce at all while Marion thrives. I mean the risk is pretty huge for Kerr because he did take the risk most people probably wouldnt have :pimp:

[Force]

Here's the thing... the Suns most likely weren't going to win the title with their roster as is, even if they had the best record in the West... just wouldn't have gotten it done.

This move is either going to take them either further out of contention or it's going to cement them as actual contenders.

Yeah, there is no way the Suns could win a title with the Nash, Marion, Amare core they have used for the past few seasons...they have no half court offense and no defense, and that's what playoff basketball is about. This move isn't nearly as bad as people are trying to make it seem. Shaq still got doubled teamed when he played this year...now you've got Nash, Bell, Barbosa and others waiting outside with open shots...Shaq is an excellent passer and puts the team first when he's on the court.

It's a high risk trade with an even higher reward...

Miami can probably contend in the East within 2 years. maybe next year even...imagine if they get a top 5 lottery pick this year..plus Jason Williams and Ricky Davis come off the books (unless they are traded this week)...the future in Miami looks very very good, they need to make a run at Mike Miller...well a LOT of teams need to do that, lol

[gts]

in most big trades, one group of fans is happy and giddy with the expectation of things to come while the other side is confused and lost and wonders what the heck management is doing...this is one of the few trades where both sides are happy..lol
miami fans on message boards all over are doing cartwheels with shaqs departure and suns fans are doing the same in expectation of his arrival

[k-vil]

It's official now! Shaq is headed west again to the Phoenix Suns for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks. Give me your opinion.

[loot]

good for both teams

[L.Kizzle]

Link or it didn't happen...

[White Chocolate]

This was pretty shocking. Not much of a warning. I was hoping for Shaq to finish his career in Miami. I'm looking forward to a Lakers/Suns series.

[Manute for Ever!]

We've written our opinions in the 18 other threads dedicated to it.