Arenas on Calderon's All-Star 'snub'

[tontoz]

[QUOTE]Arenas Doesn't Believe Calderon Was Snubbed
February 11, 2008 - 6:40 pm
Gilbert Arenas/NBA.com -
In a recent NBA.com blog, Gilbert Arenas broke down the Shaquille O'Neal and Pau Gasol trade and also wrote about his thoughts on whether Jose Calderon was a true All-Star snub.

"Some people wanted Jose Calderon," wrote Arenas. "Jose Calderon? Who? Come on man, this is All-Star, people. When I

[TMT]

He's just pissed because he didn't make it. :hammerhead:

[bjtrdff]

Gilbert's justification is a ****ty one, but it's one that a lot of people fall into.

He basically thinks Jose doesn't deserve to be in the ASG because he doesn't seem like an AS player.

And his reasons are false. Take Jose off the team when TJ has been out, and we're not nearly close to where we are now. He's averaging almost 10 assists as a starter, and 9 assists (not boards, obviously) overall. He's clearly one of the better PGs in the league, and a lot of people could make a case that he belongs on the team a lot more than JJ.

I like Gil, and he's entertaining, but a genius he ain't.

[RecSpecs110]

I agree. And I'm a guy who takes everything Arenas says with a grain of salt.

[FOYE4MVP]

its not so harsh. Its true!
he does not deserve to be an all-star. he's as scrub. A SCRUB. he'll be riding off the bench in his entire worthless career.

thanks GIL.

[FOYE4MVP]

He's averaging almost 10 assists as a starter, and 9 boards overall.

what the hell?? are you f*ckin serious? LOL

[AI Nuggets3]

you forgot to post the other 2 paragraphs where he softens his stance on Calderon.

[FireMcFailPlease]

Gil rules.

Seriously...Jose Calderon?

[Bruinlove]

So true. The only people who think Arenas' statement is crazy are Canadians

[elementally morale]

So true. The only people who think Arenas' statement is crazy are Canadians

You are not very sharp, are you?

Calderon is a very good PG. He does what a PG needs to be doing. Passes the ball, rarely commits a turnover and shoots a respectable percentage. I'm not sure he is an AS yet, but calling him a scrub is being ignorant. Amuch better basketball player than Tony Parker, for example.

[tontoz]

Calderon is shooting 53% from the field and 46% from 3.

JJ is my favorite player on my favorite team but i was stunned that he got picked. This has been his worst season since he came to Atlanta.

[FOYE4MVP]

You are not very sharp, are you?

Calderon is a very good PG. He does what a PG needs to be doing. Passes the ball, rarely commits a turnover and shoots a respectable percentage. I'm not sure he is an AS yet, but calling him a scrub is being ignorant. Amuch better basketball player than Tony Parker, for example.

yeah of course. you overrate your players alot.

[Bruinlove]

You are not very sharp, are you?

Calderon is a very good PG. He does what a PG needs to be doing. Passes the ball, rarely commits a turnover and shoots a respectable percentage. I'm not sure he is an AS yet, but calling him a scrub is being ignorant. Amuch better basketball player than Tony Parker, for example.
He couldn't even win out the starting job from T.J Ford!! He's a quality bench player and he plays smart but he is borderline starter and definately not allstar level caliber

[Bruinlove]

Amuch better basketball player than Tony Parker, for example.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Not very sharp all you?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

I'd be surprised if by the end of his career Calderon would even get to just a conference finals as a starter. You need to tell me where you get whatever it is you're smoking son

[G-train]

Calderon is a solid point guard but I'd still take Joe Johnson over him, despite his stats dipping slightly this season.

I dont know who else you would drop to put him in

[elementally morale]

yeah of course. you overrate your players alot.

My players? I could not care less for Calderon (a Spaniard) or the Raptors (a team I don't even like to watch let alone caling it 'my team'). Fact is, guy plays great effective basketball. Nothing to dislike about his game.

Arenas on theother hand is a serious asshole. Has been for some years now.

[FOYE4MVP]

el calderon sucks. get over it please.

[Psileas]

Gilbo must not have been paying much attention this year, since Calderon is not a 6th man: He's stearted in 35 of his 49 games. And it's not just his as/To ratio. Look also at the as/min ratio, as well as the shooting percentages from any range. I'm not saying he should necessarily be an All-Star, but comparing him to one of the biggest journeymen of all time who never played at the same level and had zero long range is at least off.

[FireMcFailPlease]

My players? I could not care less for Calderon (a Spaniard) or the Raptors (a team I don't even like to watch let alone caling it 'my team'). Fact is, guy plays great effective basketball. Nothing to dislike about his game.

Arenas on theother hand is a serious asshole. Has been for some years now.
Who would you rather have. Joe Johnson or Calderon? or Arenas and Calderon? Based on skill, not likes

[RoseCity07]

I agree. And I'm a guy who takes everything Arenas says with a grain of salt.


I agree too and I think Arenas is a hyped douche chucker.

[FOYE4MVP]

Who would you rather have. Joe Johnson or Calderon? or Arenas and Calderon? Based on skill, not likes

he'll take calderon of course. and moon if hes there.

[elementally morale]

Who would you rather have. Joe Johnson or Calderon? or Arenas and Calderon? Based on skill, not likes

Joe Johnson over Calderon and Calderon over Arenas. Based on actual output, not skills. Arenas has his share of big games but like half ofthe time he hurts his team a lot with his rather mindless chucking. Actually, I don't give a damn about 'skills'. All I care for is the ability to make the team constantly better.

Jason Williams has lots of 'skill'. So?

[FOYE4MVP]

Calderon over Arenas



you are making me laugh. good bye.

[Kblaze8855]

Jose calderon would be among the worst all star point guards in NBA history. Right down there with BJ Armstrong. Arenas sais nothing out of line. One of those "Its true...but maybe he shouldnt say it" things. Calderon is hardly a special point. not by all star standards. Rod Strickland was never even an all star and he was an 18/11/5 player. Baron Davis has missed the ASG in years he was better than Calderon. Same for Kevin Johnson(3-4 times), Terry Porter, John Stockton(he missed the ASG as a 15 point 14 assist 57% shooting player who was third in the league in steals)Sam Cassell, Marbury, Chris Paul, Nash, Bibby, and maybe Deron Williams. Hell Kidd missed 3 of the last 4 all star teams. Billups(numbers or not...I cant see a coach giving up Billups for Jose), Vanexel, and Mark Price all missed the ASG in seasons they were better than Calderon in. And Tim Hardaway. Terrell Brandon. Maybe even Damon Stoudamire in his youth.

Calderson isnt doing anything that makes him a likely all star. Hes a 12/9 player who shoots well on a good but far from great team. Considering defense is he even better than Mookie Blaylock was?

Nobody should be suprised hes not an all star. Hes not on the level all star points tend to be. hes not even on the level the best non all star points usually are.

[FOYE4MVP]

Jose calderon would be among the worst all star point guards in NBA history. Right down there with BJ Armstrong. Arenas sais nothing out of line. One of those "Its true...but maybe he shouldnt say it" things. Calderon is hardly a special point. not by all star standards. Rod Strickland was never even an all star and he was an 18/11/5 player. Baron Davis has missed the ASG in years he was better than Calderon. Same for Kevin Johnson(3-4 times), Terry Porter, Sam Cassell, Marbury, Chris Paul, Nash, Bibby, and maybe Deron Williams. Hell Kidd missed 3 of the last all star teams. Billups(numbers or not...I cant see a coach giving up Billups for Jose), Vanexel, and Mark Price all missed the ASG in seasons they were better than Calderon in. And Tim Hardaway. Terrell Brandon. Maybe even Damon Stoudamire in his youth.

Calderson isnt doing anything that makes him a likely all star. Hes a 12/9 player who shoots well. Considering defense is he even better than Mookie Blaylock was?

Nobody should be suprised hes not an all star. Hes not on the level all star points tend to be. hes not even on the level the best non all star points usually are.

AMEN. cassell is def. better than that scrub

[tontoz]

Jose calderon would be among the worst all star point guards in NBA history. Right down there with BJ Armstrong. Arenas sais nothing out of line. One of those "Its true...but maybe he shouldnt say it" things. Calderon is hardly a special point. not by all star standards. Rod Strickland was never even an all star and he was an 18/11/5 player. Baron Davis has missed the ASG in years he was better than Calderon. Same for Kevin Johnson(3-4 times), Terry Porter, Sam Cassell, Marbury, Chris Paul, Nash, Bibby, and maybe Deron Williams. Hell Kidd missed 3 of the last all star teams. Billups(numbers or not...I cant see a coach giving up Billups for Jose), Vanexel, and Mark Price all missed the ASG in seasons they were better than Calderon in. And Tim Hardaway. Terrell Brandon. Maybe even Damon Stoudamire in his youth.



All of that is completely irrelevant. He isn't in competiton with any of those players. This is 2008 not 1988. This is the East we are talking about not the West.

Sheed averages 13/7 shooting 43% and got in as a replacement. This isn't a stacked team we are talking about.

Kidd got voted in as a starter shooting 36%.

[Qwyjibo]

Calderon would be as undeserving of an All-Star as Rasheed is this year. Neither belong there.

[TheHonestTruth]

He is just being racist, that's all.

[FOYE4MVP]

He is just being racist, that's all.

why would it be racist?

[Kblaze8855]

Point wasnt that he shouldnt make it if they didnt. Point is that even by the standards of points who DIDNT make the all star game...hes not that good. Hes a good player by normal standards. But hes not on the level of the usual all star point. Much better players than him missed the ASG. When hes so far below what the players who make it usually are I dont see why anyone is suprised he didnt make it.

Is Jose really an all star level player? I dont see how he is. Especially by point standards.

Hes no more of an all star than Scott Skiles was. In fact....give me Scott Skiles. At least he played defense....

[Kblaze8855]

why would it be racist?

As I recall that guy used to hate on black players in favor of white ones and it became so obvious people would call him on it and long race issue topics would result. So now he just pops up to call black people racist in a "Im racist....but other people might be too" kinda way.

[G-train]

Hes no more of an all star than Scott Skiles was. In fact....give me Scott Skiles. At least he played defense....

thats a fair comparison

I think there is 2 debates here, people debating whether Calderon is all star worthy, and people debating the harshness of Gil's assessment.

[FOYE4MVP]

As I recall that guy used to hate on black players in favor of white ones and it became so obvious people would call him on it and long race issue topics would result. So now he just pops up to call black people racist in a "Im racist....but other people might be too" kinda way.

what? i dont understand. Gil is African-American. Why would he hate blacks?

[G-train]

If he is allstar worthy, who do you drop?

Gil was a bit over the top in his assessment (Calderon is better than a journeyman one man) but he was just spicing up his story I think. I think his point is that he is not an all star player, just a solid PG who seemingly went from average to above average overnight (to most fans out of Canada).

[Bruinlove]

AMEN. cassell is def. better than that scrub
Amen
I've been saying that for awhile but everytime i do I get gangbanged by retarded Craptors fans

[FOYE4MVP]

Amen
I've been saying that for awhile but everytime i do I get gangbanged by retarded Craptors fans

yeah. they totally overrated their players.

[tontoz]

Is Jose really an all star level player? I dont see how he is. Especially by point standards.


YOu say Jose is only a 12/9 player but Kidd is only a 11/10 player and shoots 17% worse from the field.

The East guards are weak. In a normal year he wouldn't be in consideration but i don't see a guard in the east that was left off that deserves to be on more than Calderon.

[Kblaze8855]

Scott was a quality point. Scrappy as hell. If ISH existed back then people would have been here saying he was better than Kenny Anderson and company. He was exactly the type of player to get overrated online. Great shooting. Scrappy defense. Huge assist totals(the 30 assist game aside even). Real smart approach. He would be loved by ISH.

And not exactly the issue but....

Monta Ellis. Is Jose really outplaying him? different roles but they are on the same basic level id say. And Barbosa. I dont think the Bulls of the last few years would be better with current Calderon than Kirk Hinrich. Wade would have murdered the Bulls in the playoffs every time Thabo sat down. Jose is on the level of a lot of guys nobody would give all star status too. Now and historically.

I understand him being a fan favorite and getting a little darkhorse push....but hes just not there yet.

[Skywalker]

FOYE Calderon ain't a scrub.

[FOYE4MVP]

FOYE Calderon ain't a scrub.

yes he is.

[boozehound]

[QUOTE=gilbo hibachi chucker mcgee]"An All-Star is an All-Star! He

[whaley82]

Tontoz are you trying to say that Jose is as good as Jason Kidd... because he shoots a higher percentage...

I like how Arenas showed who the real snub of the east is...and that is Richard Jefferson

[Bruinlove]

FOYE Calderon ain't a scrub.
Watch the Lakers Charolotte game tonight. You'll see that even a guy like Raymond Felton has more talent, plays better defense and is a better playmaker than Calderon, and NOBODY ranks Felton near the top of the league.

[tontoz]

Monta Ellis. Is Jose really outplaying him? different roles but they are on the same basic level id say. And Barbosa.

Do you really not realize that those guys play in the west?

It doesn't matter who didn't make the All-Star game in the 80s or who didn't make it out West.



I dont think the Bulls of the last few years would be better with current Calderon than Kirk Hinrich. Wade would have murdered the Bulls in the playoffs every time Thabo sat down

Hinrich's shot has been way off this year, same as JJ.

[boozehound]

AMEN. cassell is def. better than that scrub
what year do you live in?

[Bruinlove]

wait. so does that mean that you arent an allstar and probably never should be. cause its clear that butler is the man on the wiz who makes a difference in carrying the team not you.
When Gilbert is playing, he certainly is the main guy "dominating" the ball:roll:

[Skywalker]

Watch the Lakers Charolotte game tonight. You'll see that even a guy like Raymond Felton has more talent, plays better defense and is a better playmaker than Calderon, and NOBODY ranks Felton near the top of the league.

ummmm no sorry, Felton shoots terrible percentages and is a turnovers machine. Calderon is so efficient and usually make the right play. I'll take that over a flashy playmaker anyday. Calderon is better than Felton. Calderon would be secodn best player on the Wolves. I hope you agree FOYE.

[tontoz]

Tontoz are you trying to say that Jose is as good as Jason Kidd... because he shoots a higher percentage...

I like how Arenas showed who the real snub of the east is...and that is Richard Jefferson


No. Kblaze refered to Calderon as "just a 12/9 player". So i could say Kidd is just a 11/10 player.

Jefferson is a forward last i checked and the east forwards are much deeper than the guards.

[A Roc 23]

yes he is.

He would easily be the 2nd best player on Minnesota. Just saying.

But he is not a legit all-star. Then again neither is Joe Johnson or a beyond-his-prime Rasheed Wallace.

Jose is a bit underrated around the league. Yes, Raptor fans are crazy about him, but beyond this board he is underrated. You guys will see that after a full year of being the lone starting point guard he would be a 16/10 player like he is now.

16 points 10 assists on 50%+ shooting 45% from three with the best turnover/assist ratio in the history of the league is what he will be if they can move Ford. That's an all-star in the sad East, but he's not there yet.

Some of you clearly haven't seen him play.

[Bruinlove]

Do you really not realize that those guys play in the west?

It doesn't matter who didn't make the All-Star game in the 80s or who didn't make it out West.




Hinrich's shot has been way off this year, same as JJ.
You're saying Calderon deserves to be in the Allstar game over Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace then??
:roll:

And sorry to burt your guys bubble about the Calderon>Cassell thing but put Calderon on the clippers and he would be the third string gaurd behind Livingston and Cassel. Even today Cassel can do things that Calderon will never be able to do.

[boozehound]

When Gilbert is playing, he certainly is the main guy "dominating" the ball:roll:
true that. god what a chucker

read his quote again. That means, if you take him off the team, that team should fall down if he’s that one guy.

so why didnt the wiz "fall down" when he went down? why did it happen when caron went down?

[boozehound]

You're saying Calderon deserves to be in the Allstar game over Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace then??
:roll:
you do realize that they are both forwards not pointguards? different positions = different criteria

[Bruinlove]

ummmm no sorry, Felton shoots terrible percentages and is a turnovers machine. Calderon is so efficient and usually make the right play. I'll take that over a flashy playmaker anyday. Calderon is better than Felton. Calderon would be secodn best player on the Wolves. I hope you agree FOYE.
... ok you're talking like you know nothing about basketball..answer me dude, are you Canadian?

[G-train]

Is Calderon > Mo Williams?

[FOYE4MVP]

Calderon would be secodn best player on the Wolves. I hope you agree FOYE.

what? even a scrub like gerald green is better than him. hell id pick madsen over that filthy scrub.

[Bruinlove]

you do realize that they are both forwards not pointguards? different positions = different criteria
Yeh but you think Calderon deserves a reserve spot ahead of those guys who both got snubbed?

[FOYE4MVP]

Is Calderon > Mo Williams?

im afraid not. mo williams is more skilled than calderon. he gets to the FT line much. A/TO is overrated.

[Bruinlove]

what? even a scrub like gerald green is better than him. hell id pick madsen over that filthy scrub.
Madsen has more rings than Calderon ever will. I'd take Madsen too:cheers:

[tontoz]

You're saying Calderon deserves to be in the Allstar game over Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace then??
:roll:



Man it is surprising how many people don't understand the difference between a forward and a guard. What Wallace and Smith have done has no relevance to Calderon or any other guard in terms of All-Star selections.

The East GUARDS are weak, not the forwards.

[FOYE4MVP]

Madsen has more rings than Calderon ever will. I'd take Madsen too:cheers:

you'll surely will buddy.:cheers:

[Bruinlove]

Man it is surprising how many people don't understand the difference between a forward and a guard. What Wallace and Smith have done has no relevance to Calderon or any other guard in terms of All-Star selections.

The East GUARDS are weak, not the forwards.
Ok, so Calderon should get in over Ray Allen, Vince Carter who as a shell of his former self is still producing more impressive numbers? Calderon over Jason Richardson???:roll:

[Skywalker]

Bruinlove and FOYE4MVP ARE ****IN RETARDS

there I said what everyone wants to say

you figure "back up PG on the RAPTORS, and he's white, undrafted FA" and automatically think his stats are lucky or something. Maybe watch a game you ****in morons and quit polluting these boards with your braindead thoughts.

[Skywalker]

Ok, so Calderon should get in over Ray Allen, Vince Carter who as a shell of his former self is still producing more impressive numbers? Calderon over Jason Richardson???

actually the Raptors fans' hopes were that Calderon would make as a third PG because after Kidd and Billups he's been the best PG in the east. I never really expected him to actually make it, but he WAS the third best option at PG.

[Bruinlove]

im afraid not. mo williams is more skilled than calderon. he gets to the FT line much. A/TO is overrated.
Agreed. Do y'alls think Calderon should get in over Michael Redd for that final spot too??:eek:

[FOYE4MVP]

ok. if calderon is not on the raptors, would you treat him the same? answer that please. i wanna know.

[Kblaze8855]

YOu say Jose is only a 12/9 player but Kidd is only a 11/10 player and shoots 17% worse from the field.

Jason Kidd is an 11/10/8 player in the 2 steal range and even in declined state...is a better defender. Besides Jason Kidd has never been the most productive player. He put up 12/9/7 leading a 56 win team of role players. I somehow doubt most teams would rather have Calderon than Kidd(age and salary aside). Calderon is one of a long looooong list of people to shoot better than Jason Kidd. Hes not going to the HOF for his shooting percentages. Anyway I just pointed out that hes missed 3 of the last 4. Jason has been considered the best or second best in the NBA and missed the ASG. Should be no suprise when Calderon misses it as a high end role player.


The East guards are weak. In a normal year he wouldn't be in consideration but i don't see a guard in the east that was left off that deserves to be on more than Calderon.

Thats the thing though.....even if he were the best of the rest(and he isnt) that doesnt mean the people who made it shouldnt. Hes not better than Billups, Rip, Wade, Kidd, or Joe Johnson. Hes not a better player than Ray Allen. Hes not a better player than Rasheed since he came up as the replacment player(If only for defense). Or Gerald Wallace for that matter. Or Rashard Lewis. Or Michael Redd. Or Hedo. Or Okafor. Or Richard Jefferson. I dont think id rank him over Josh Smith, Vince Carter, Iguodala, or Danny Granger. Hes just one of a number of good players who arent all star level.

Hes in the middle(maybe the back end really) of a long list of guys who are good but dont belong in the all star game. He just isnt that good.

[Bruinlove]

Bruinlove and FOYE4MVP ARE ****IN RETARDS

there I said what everyone wants to say

you figure "back up PG on the RAPTORS, and he's white, undrafted FA" and automatically think his stats are lucky or something. Maybe watch a game you ****in morons and quit polluting these boards with your braindead thoughts.
I watched a few of his games, but buddy the raptors are hard to watch. He isn't impressive at all, yeah he takes good shots and makes some smart decisions but there's nothing he does that makes him allstar level. Tinsely, Felton, Mo Williams>Calderon as PGs in the east.

Do you watch any games that aren't Raptors and than just read the boxscores to figure out what happens with the other teams? because thats what it sounds like talking to you guys

[FOYE4MVP]

Agreed. Do y'alls think Calderon should get in over Michael Redd for that final spot too??:eek:

yeah mike redd too. he's having a productive season yet he was snubbed. he was more deserving than JJ IMO.
22.9 ppg 4.7 rpg 3.6 apg in 41 games

[Skywalker]

IF I watched him YES. When you watch a player who plays like Calderon you realize he's good because he plays good. Simple as that. He is something like 15/10 with SICK percentages and zilch turnovers a game. How could he not be good? Arenas' comparison to Ollie is retarded did Ollie ever average 15/10/1 turnover with sick percentages, LEGENDRAY percentages actually on a winning team in 35 mpg?!?!?! NO. Arenas suprised me with his ignorance there.

[Kblaze8855]

Watch the Lakers Charolotte game tonight. You'll see that even a guy like Raymond Felton has more talent, plays better defense and is a better playmaker than Calderon, and NOBODY ranks Felton near the top of the league.

Im actually watching this game now. I see a couple Bobcat games a week. It took all my restraint not to mention Felton. Hes not better than Calderon but if they switched places I cant see the Raptors being much worse. Bobcats improve a tad I think. But being a notch above Felton isnt all that great....

[Skywalker]

Tinsely, Felton, Mo Williams>Calderon as PGs in the east.

Just LOOK at the numbers. Is it that hard. Ford started over Mo in MIL. Calderon outplays Ford in TO.

[tontoz]

Ok, so Calderon should get in over Ray Allen, Vince Carter who as a shell of his former self is still producing more impressive numbers? Calderon over Jason Richardson???:roll:

First of all your laughing icon after every post just makes you look even more dumb.

Secondly you probably aren't aware of this but teams records come into play when picking All-Stars. The coaches won't pick 2 All-Stars from a team that is 7 games under .500 no matter how good they are.

The Bobcats are 15 games under .500 which kills JRich's chances.

The Bucks are 13 games under .500 which hurts Redd, along with the fact that he has a reputation as a selfish chucker who doesn't play D.

[Skywalker]

Im actually watching this game now. I see a couple Bobcat games a week. It took all my restraint not to mention Felton. Hes not better than Calderon but if they switched places I cant see the Raptors being much worse. Bobcats improve a tad I think. But being a notch above Felton isnt all that great....

:roll:

Felton shoots like 40% from the FIELD. Calderon shoots that from THREE.

[Bruinlove]

IF I watched him YES. When you watch a player who plays like Calderon you realize he's good because he plays good. Simple as that. He is something like 15/10 with SICK percentages and zilch turnovers a game. How could he not be good? Arenas' comparison to Ollie is retarded did Ollie ever average 15/10/1 turnover with sick percentages, LEGENDRAY percentages actually on a winning team in 35 mpg?!?!?! NO. Arenas suprised me with his ignorance there.
It's not that impressive to have a winning team in the Atlantic Division mate. He's solid yeah, but nothing spectacular at all

[FOYE4MVP]

IF I watched him YES. When you watch a player who plays like Calderon you realize he's good because he plays good. Simple as that. He is something like 15/10 with SICK percentages and zilch turnovers a game. How could he not be good? Arenas' comparison to Ollie is retarded did Ollie ever average 15/10/1 turnover with sick percentages, LEGENDRAY percentages actually on a winning team in 35 mpg?!?!?! NO. Arenas suprised me with his ignorance there.

FG percentage are overrated. Kobe shoots 45.7%. Is he better than kobe? J-Kidd shoots 36.7%. Is he better than Kidd?

[Kblaze8855]

Man it is surprising how many people don't understand the difference between a forward and a guard. What Wallace and Smith have done has no relevance to Calderon or any other guard in terms of All-Star selections.

The East GUARDS are weak, not the forwards.

I assume he means the open spots that coaches can select regardless of position. I think there are 2 of them.

[Bruinlove]

First of all your laughing icon after every post just makes you look even more dumb.

Secondly you probably aren't aware of this but teams records come into play when picking All-Stars. The coaches won't pick 2 All-Stars from a team that is 7 games under .500 no matter how good they are.

The Bobcats are 15 games under .500 which kills JRich's chances.

The Bucks are 13 games under .500 which hurts Redd, along with the fact that he has a reputation as a selfish chucker who doesn't play D.
Ok, what about Michael Redd, Vince and Allen. Y'all are avoiding the question. Calderon deserves in the allstar game over those three?

[Skywalker]

FG percentage are overrated. Kobe shoots 45.7%. Is he better than kobe? J-Kidd shoots 36.7%. Is he better than Kidd?

Kidd is a **** shooter and Kobe takes way more shots. Jose Calderon is a better shooter than J Kidd yes. Not close.

[Bruinlove]

Kidd is a **** shooter and Kobe takes way more shots. Jose Calderon is a better shooter than J Kidd yes. Not close.
Sasha Vujacic and Daniel Gibson are better shooters than Jason Kidd, that doesn't mean they'll be sniffing the allstar game anytime soon

[FOYE4MVP]

Kidd is a **** shooter and Kobe takes way more shots. Jose Calderon is a better shooter than J Kidd yes. Not close.

is he a better player than kidd? HELL NO!

answer my question please:
"if calderon is not playing for the raptors, would you treat him like a god?

[Skywalker]

Sasha Vujacic and Daniel Gibson are better shooters than Jason Kidd, that doesn't mean they'll be sniffing the allstar game anytime soon

Wow go die. I dont understand what was running through your brain for you to post this? Tell me you haven't graduated elementary school or that you're a big time drug addict to justify this completely horse **** post, pelase. Cmon get to it.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

I'm a fan of Hibachi, and Calderon to an extent because in my past alter-ego I waz a devout Raps fan.

All I can say is that Calderon iz one hell of a player with an incredible future, and hiz all-star game invitation is not fully UNJUSTIFIED as the idiot clownz have said.

Efficiency wise, excellent; but doezn't have that impact or it quite yet.

Regardless that arrogance and condescension showed by Gilbo waz highly uncalled for, az true az they were. Screw him.

Calderon > Farmar, now and forever.
Calderon > Any T-Wolvez guard.

So please GTFO the thread Bruin and Foye, you guyz are ridiculously annoying and have yet to say a decent point, dumbazz fools.

Kblaze haz valid points, however.

[tontoz]

Ok, what about Michael Redd, Vince and Allen. Y'all are avoiding the question. Calderon deserves in the allstar game over those three?

Dude are you reading impaired?

Like i said before the coaches won't pick 2 All-Stars from a team 7 games under .500 so that eliminates Vince.

Redds Bucks are 13 games under .500 and he is known as a selfish chucker.

Allen is having his worst year in probably a decade.

[Skywalker]

is he a better player than kidd? HELL NO!

answer my question please:
"if calderon is not playing for the raptors, would you treat him like a god?

I answered about ten posts ago. Im not posting in here anymore. I'm right you are WRONG. I'm not saying Calderon should even be AS. Im saying hes not a scrub.

[Skywalker]

Dude are you reading impaired?

:roll:

I was wondering the same.

[Bruinlove]

Wow go die. I dont understand what was running through your brain for you to post this? Tell me you haven't graduated elementary school or that you're a big time drug addict to justify this completely horse **** post, pelase. Cmon get to it.
Whoa buddy what's with the personal attacks! I'm just trying to make you aware that you can find average roleplayers who shoot better from the Three than Kidd, just because Calderon shoots better than Kidd it doesn't mean anything. Plus, Chauncy rips your Spanish Golden boy a new asshole everytime they go head to head. Allstars should atleast be able to play semi decent defense when matched up against others

[A Roc 23]

Skywalker don't bother. They're either kidding or retarded.

Just watch what Calderon is doing to the Spurs right now. Shredding them up.

[Bruinlove]

[QUOTE=Skywalker] Im not posting in here anymore. I'm right you are WRONG. QUOTE]

Haha baby's crying! He sounds like Veruca Salt

[Kblaze8855]

Felton shoots like 40% from the FIELD. Calderon shoots that from THREE.

And this means what to me?

Jose calderon has become oof those "Look at the numbers!" players who gets a following beyond his talents ability to justify. He has a good combo of the things it takes to get such a following.

He started as a no name so people who like him can claim they knew he was great from the jump. Hes got a high assist/turnover ratio. He shoots well from the field.

All good things. But they dont make anyone dominant. Got people talking about his production as legendary. As if 50/40/90 makes him better than a guy like Isiah Thomas or something. Its just a string of stats put together before they look nice. There are hall of famers who never shot near 50%. There have been points better than Calderon who didnt shoot 40% at the time. If you shoot 50/40/90 and 200 people who didnt do it were better than you...what does it even matter? Gilbert Arenas is the only 200 threes 700 free throws player ever. That really factor into anyones rankings? Its just trivia. A question for Canadian Jeopardy.

[RoseCity07]

God this page alone is evidence enough that it is true Raptors fans are dumb asses.

[tontoz]

I assume he means the open spots that coaches can select regardless of position. I think there are 2 of them.

If you want to pick a snub irrelevant of position in the east i would say Turgolu. If we are talking guards then I would have to say Calderon.

[FOYE4MVP]

Skywalker don't bother. They're either kidding or retarded.

Just watch what Calderon is doing to the Spurs right now. Shredding them up.

yeah. watch calderon die. he got crossed by francisco elson.

[Skywalker]

Whoa buddy what's with the personal attacks! I'm just trying to make you aware that you can find average roleplayers who shoot better from the Three than Kidd, just because Calderon shoots better than Kidd it doesn't mean anything. Plus, Chauncy rips your Spanish Golden boy a new ******* everytime they go head to head. Allstars should atleast be able to play semi decent defense when matched up against others

K re read the thread. Break it down into about 10 diffrent sections and go through each section carefully highlighting key terms. Next analyze the thread as a whole and comeback when your brain is fully functional and you realize what is going on.

[Skywalker]

And this means what to me?

That he owns Felton at every aspect of offense. Is Felton really that good on defense?

[FOYE4MVP]

give me alston,diener,robinson,telfair,tinsley,crawford,ne lson any day twice on sunday

[tontoz]

Skywalker don't bother. They're either kidding or retarded.

Just watch what Calderon is doing to the Spurs right now. Shredding them up.

Calderon has 27 pts on 12-16 shooting against the defending champs, but those are just empty stats that don't mean anything.

[Fubar]

Career high 27 for Jose tonight :rockon:

Along with 6 dimes. Try that on for size hatas!

[Skywalker]

give me alston,diener,robinson,telfair,tinsley,crawford,ne lson any day twice on sunday

K I guess you were kidding all along then. Phew.

[FOYE4MVP]

God this page alone is evidence enough that it is true Raptors fans are dumb asses.

:bowdown: :bowdown: id pick darius miles over bargnani. steve blake over calderon easily

[FOYE4MVP]

K I guess you were kidding all along then. Phew.

im not! hes a scrub for life.

[Skywalker]

k man nvm just nvm

[Kblaze8855]

They arent empty stats. Its a good game. Good players tend to have them. Ive never said the guy sucks or anything. He just isnt on an all star level. Doesnt take an all star to have big games. Darius Milles dropped about 49 once....


That he owns Felton at every aspect of offense. Is Felton really that good on defense?

I think I see the problem here. Seems you think every aspect of offense is measured in stats. Anyway....I did NOT say Felton is better than Calderon. Ieven said the Bobcats improve with Jose. But the Raptors arent falling off the face of the earth. The difference between the two isnt that great.

Felton has shooting issues but he plays hard, can get to the basket(not the best finisher though), and yes hes a slightly better defender. Hes quite clutch too. I wouldnt be shocked if he ends up better than Jose. He isnt right now. But hes not too far behind to catch up.

[FOYE4MVP]

k man nvm just nvm

dont feel bad about calderon man. at least he's better than Jeff McInnis

[Skywalker]

Seems you think every aspect of offense is measured in stats

It's fact that he's better shooter. Passing IS measured by assists because the best passers are all at the top of the league in apg. Um, Calderon slashes seemingly at will, to be a better slasher than Calderon you'd have to be pretty darn good.

Maybe Felton is better at getting to the line, I don't know.



dont feel bad about calderon man. at least he's better than Jeff McInnis

Jeff McInnis would be starting for our Timberwolves.

[Fubar]

JOSSSSSEEEEEEEEEE CALDERON!:rockon:

[RoseCity07]

The only people who want to see Calderon play is Raptors fans. They get to see him play every game on local cable. This is the All Star game.

Having great back up PG stats does not mean he was snubbed from the All Star game.

[rknine15]

jose was fired up this game... i bet he heard what A0 had to say

[Bruinlove]

Yeah, I'd like to see someone try to argue how Calderon deserves a spot in the ASG over Andre Miller.


I think I'll call it right now and say they'll dismiss is with the "oh yeah, well his team has a bad record" thing they seem so fond of.

And to that guy above, Allen in his worst season in ten years still X10 the player Calderon is

[FOYE4MVP]

Yeah, I'd like to see someone try to argue how Calderon deserves a spot in the ASG over Andre Miller.


I think I'll call it right now and say they'll dismiss is with the "oh yeah, well his team has a bad record" thing they seem so fond of.

And to that guy above, Allen in his worst season in ten years still X10 the player Calderon is

Dre miller will even make the ASG at age 40. now thats what you call a snub.

[Kblaze8855]

It's fact that he's better shooter.

It is. But that isnt always shown in numbers.


Passing IS measured by assists because the best passers are all at the top of the league in apg.

Passing is measured in assists by people who dont pay much attention. Assists per game change far more than passing talent does. Steve Nash averaged less assists a game in 2003 than Jason terry. What did he just become a great passer in 2005? Assists are as much a product of role and system as passing talent.


Um, Calderon slashes seemingly at will, to be a better slasher than Calderon you'd have to be pretty darn good.

He is. And Calderon when I see him seems to slash off fear of his jumper. Which is effective but not the same as taking a man properly prepared to defend the drive.


Maybe Felton is better at getting to the line, I don't know.

He draws contact pretty well but doesnt do it as often as he should.

[boozehound]

congratz rooting for the worst guard of all time.
when did this become about foye?

[Carbine]

I respect Calderon' game. He plays the spot about as efficient as you could ask for from a third year player. It's not like he takes wide open jumpers, he's taking contested off the dribble shots for the most part - or finishing at the hoop at a conversion rate that is #1 for point guards.

I think he's a great player and while he may not be individually an all-star in the sense of having the capability of dropping back to back to back 40 point games like some of the other guys do, he does make an impact on his team that is right there with the fringe all-stars.

[Bruinlove]

I respect Calderon' game. He plays the spot about as efficient as you could ask for from a third year player. It's not like he takes wide open jumpers, he's taking contested off the dribble shots for the most part - or finishing at the hoop at a conversion rate that is #1 for point guards.

I think he's a great player and while he may not be individually an all-star in the sense of having the capability of dropping back to back to back 40 point games like some of the other guys do, he does make an impact on his team that is right there with the fringe all-stars.
I still haven't heard anyone say why he deserves a spot on the ASG over Andre Miller

[Lebron23]

Jose Calderon would be a future NBA ALL STAR

[FOYE4MVP]

Jose Calderon would be a future NBA ALL STAR

i know you agree boobie >>>>>>>>> calderon

[No.45]

i am a die hard raptor fan, and i believe that Jose Calderon is NOT an all-star caliber player. Sure he has great percentages, the lowest assist-turnover ratio etc, but simply put he just doesn't have the pazzaz or the skill to entertain at an all-star game.

Hes one of those players that belong in a regular season game atmosphere. He wouldn't fit in at New Orleans.

I agree with Arenas (unfortunately)

[mrhoopfan]

He's a very solid pg. If he starts next year full-time, then imo in the east he'll be an all-star....as for Nash's stats, thats my team but he reminds me of the hoops version of a Texas Tech qb or Andre Ware/ David Klingler

[Fubar]

i am a die hard raptor fan, and i believe that Jose Calderon is NOT an all-star caliber player. Sure he has great percentages, the lowest assist-turnover ratio etc, but simply put he just doesn't have the pazzaz or the skill to entertain at an all-star game.

Hes one of those players that belong in a regular season game atmosphere. He wouldn't fit in at New Orleans.

I agree with Arenas (unfortunately)

I agree with that statement. Jose is a guy that has played big games in his career (gold medalist for the Spanish national team). Hes a guy that cares more about winning in sports. Everyone brings up his stats, but he doesn't care about his personal stats. His attitude and play make him who he is. He can play at a high level but hes not the type you would see entertain at an ASG. And as from as the ASG goes its nothing but entertainment. So you can give all those guys that are going to the ASG a message from Jose and its simply "see you in the playoffs". Come this spring we'll see who makes the second season of the association.

[tontoz]

I still haven't heard anyone say why he deserves a spot on the ASG over Andre Miller

Miller has played his best basketball this month which is after the teams were selected. He averaged only 4.5 assists in November but is averaging twice that this month with 20 pts shooting 57%.

It doesn't really matter what you do after the teams are selected.



LOL @ anyone who thinks the best players are selected for the All-Star game. If that was the case then nobody would care if a guy was on a bad team (JRich, Redd), having an off year (Allen) or had disciplinary issues (Melo in the past).

[boozehound]

i know you agree boobie >>>>>>>>> calderon wow man you are a ****ing douche. all the stupid **** you say in this thread (regardless of calderons AS worthiness). you look like an idiot. and Bruinlove doesnt look much better. idiots. and that has nothing to do with whether he should be in the ASG or not.

[Reef]

Foye's just pissed since his team is the joke of the leauge and got owned by the Raps yesterday, and Bruinlove is bitter cuz his team's star player was traded for a pile of steaming crap.

[Koop1]

Truthh Gilbert
if Gilbert was healthy, we wouldn't even be speaking of Jose in the All-star game

[G-train]

Bruinlove is bitter cuz his team's star player was traded for a pile of steaming crap.

nice

:applause:

[reppy]

Funny that Gilbert says it's not about the numbers but wasn't he saying Roy didn't deserve to be an All-Star because he averages 20/5?

[oldenpolynice]

Hate to say it, but I agree with Arenas. Calderon doesn't deserve to be considered for the All-Star game. Rich Jeff and J Smoove are legit snubs. Calderon is not.

[GoldMedallist]

Please, this thread don't worth anymore.

I see Calderon have his fans and his haters. Actually, Jose is a pretty damn good shooter (tonigth 27 points, 12-17 FG is a good example), a good playmaker and a bad defender. Let Kidd out of the talk (he don't deserve to be the starter, but fans voted) and Billups (he's still better) but Calderon has more or less same level than any other PG in East (including his teammate Ford). Calderon don't deserve all-star this year, but Neither Sheed Wallace, and I don't see so many Sheed-haters thread.

Oh, and this is for all his haters: He will continue improving, and you will see him in an all star, believe me.

What I don't understand is why stupid Arenas is talking that thrash. At least, Calderon (and Ford, Tinsley, Mo Pete, etc...) makes their team better; Wizards are proving they are a BETTER team WITHOUT him. He should be nervous for that.

[TheGrassIsGreen]

[QUOTE]An All-Star is an All-Star! He

[Bruinlove]

Foye's just pissed since his team is the joke of the leauge and got owned by the Raps yesterday, and Bruinlove is bitter cuz his team's star player was traded for a pile of steaming crap.
My team's the lakers dumbshit, we're the ones who traded away the pile of crap for the star. Way to make yourself look retarded:applause:

[20 Dimes A Game]

It true, i hate all the Calderon hype. Like he's 'goin to be the next Nash?'
Yeah right.

[Drinker]

January:

Min: 38.8
FG: 55.1%
3P: 51.1 %
FT: 96.9%
rebounds 3.3
Assist: 10.4
Stl: 1.8
points: 14.9

February so far (5 games):

Min: 33.6
FG: 70.2%
3P: 57.1 %
FT: 100%
rebounds 3
Assist: 9
Stl: 1.2
points: 16.2

And taking care of the ball (TO) more than any other PG maybe in all NBA history


Why some of you hate this guy so much?

[bail]

I love gil!haha

[Done_And_Done]

give me alston,diener,robinson,telfair,tinsley,crawford,ne lson any day twice on sunday


AM I CURSED OR SOMETHING??

Why is that every time I log on whenever I wake up earlier then normal I instantly wanna flop back into bed after reading a little over 2 pages of the first thread I click....

This always fricken happens man... Always! Always!! Always!!! :banghead:

First and formost in regards the quote I highlighted above...

Its outrageous bogus comments such as these that are only posted simply to catch petty reactions out of people causing them to unload on you in a disrespectfull manner {deadly trend} and for the most part of this thread both you and your flamboyantly flamming lover Bruin have done nothing other then aggitate and spark mindless argument. Not to my surprise that in the few days that I have returned to ISH {after intentionally furthuring myself 4 half a year} this is already the second time where ive caught this Bruin dude talking sheeer utter bullsh*t nonsense in hopes of antagonizing as many people as he possibly can in the shortest amount of time. CLEARLY this pathetic little role you play has some fooled but its appearent that you acchieve some sense of self gratification when you see random basketball loving men counteract and respond to your blatantly asinine comments.

Dude sits on his cute little comfy computer chair that his mom baught him for his 14th birthday that spins a complete 720 with one push of the foot, with his d*ick hangin out of his pants obtaining some sort of sick perverted fullfillment with knowing hes annoying a bunch of dudes on a basketball forum.... LAME!

KBLAZE - As usual you are an expection as youre arguments always contain and are supproted by truth & valid points...

Nevertheless...

Im gunna opt not to discuss the whole "Should Calderon be an All Star matter" and just input a quick comment in regards to Gilbos little blog speal. Bottom line is that Arenas has the liberty to speak his mind and no soul can deny him of the right to express his genuine honest thoughts BUT to refer or downplay Jose Calderon and place him in the same or similar category of a Kevin Ollie is just flat out bananas & friggin iggnorant. Yes, one can make argument that Arenas is playing to his character of being the outspoken engima but its comments such as these that explain why I always sift through whatever this dude says and accept it with a grain of salt....


DONE

AND

DONE

[iamgine]

[QUOTE=Gilbert Arenas]You know what? I

[nerdsunite]

WoW, just wow....some of the posts in here regarding players that are better than Calderon are just insane. To sujjest that Felton in better than Calderon made me laugh out loud. Calderon is one of the more efficent players i have ever seen, he makes a bad pass about once every three games and competes hard everynight. Sure he doesnt have a lot of flash in his game and couldnt guard the side of a barn but he makes his teammates better and is a pretty likeable guy if you follow the raptors at all. Im not a Raptors homer but rather a fan of the game, and Calderon isnt a allstar but any team would benefit from having a player like him on their squad.

[DCL]

seriously, jose calderon... all-star my ass.

[Valliant13]

Amen
I've been saying that for awhile but everytime i do I get gangbanged by retarded Craptors fans

Maybe it's your charming personality.

[kidachi]

he's ballin. but he's still not an AS for me. this is like the AS "snub" of Bobby Jackson in '04... he played great while Bibby was out. he was awarded with the 6th man award though..

[FPower]

All back-up point guards have the best assist-turnover ratios.

I'm not saying Calderon's an all-star, but he's not a back-up this year. The fact that Arenas throws that into his argument kills his credibility IMO.

[ForceOfNature]

I completely agree with Gilbert on this one, Calderon is sickeningly overrated. Actually I agree with Gilbert on a lot of the points he makes, the guy makes sense when he writes in his blogs.

[eeeeeebro]

Gilbert's justification is a ****ty one, but it's one that a lot of people fall into.

He basically thinks Jose doesn't deserve to be in the ASG because he doesn't seem like an AS player.

And his reasons are false. Take Jose off the team when TJ has been out, and we're not nearly close to where we are now. He's averaging almost 10 assists as a starter, and 9 assists (not boards, obviously) overall. He's clearly one of the better PGs in the league, and a lot of people could make a case that he belongs on the team a lot more than JJ.

I like Gil, and he's entertaining, but a genius he ain't.

OK your gonna be on JC's side but if Rapters were to trade JC for GILBERT would you be happy?

[tontoz]

Here are the top 10 pgs in the league in PER.

1 Chris Paul, 26.85
2 Chauncey Billups, 24.32
3 Jose Calderon, 22.89
4 Steve Nash, 22.00
5 T.J. Ford, 21.60
6 Baron Davis, 20.77
7 Deron Williams, 20.58
8 Tony Parker, 19.72
9 Devin Harris, 18.67
10 Andre Miller, 17.94

[ForceOfNature]

Here are the top 10 pgs in the league in PER.

1 Chris Paul, 26.85
2 Chauncey Billups, 24.32
3 Jose Calderon, 22.89
4 Steve Nash, 22.00
5 T.J. Ford, 21.60
6 Baron Davis, 20.77
7 Deron Williams, 20.58
8 Tony Parker, 19.72
9 Devin Harris, 18.67
10 Andre Miller, 17.94

I never liked the PER stat, I would say a great point guard puts up real stats, and propels his team to victory despite there not being many great pieces. The way people talk about Calderon, you'd think he was an MVP candidate.

[Reef]

My team's the lakers dumbshit, we're the ones who traded away the pile of crap for the star. Way to make yourself look retarded:applause:

Like I'm supposed to know who's your team. Maybe try finding a pic of Pau in a Laker's uniform genius? No that's just crazy.:banghead:

[SRZ66]

he's just pissed the wizards are better without him
edit wow 10 pages?

[bonez26]

OK your gonna be on JC's side but if Rapters were to trade JC for GILBERT would you be happy?

Absolutely not. The Raps have great team chemistry and they would spoil that by getting a player of Gil's ilk. Personally I think any team is better without Gil. He's a chucker and has a poor attitude. Secondly he's getting paid way more than Calderon and your getting much better production for value than GIL. I'd be very upset if my team who ever it was traded for a guy like him. He's one of those few players you'd never want on your team...guys like Zach Randolph, Steve Francis, Artest or Ricky Davis. Just IMO though..that's my two cents

[tontoz]

I never liked the PER stat, I would say a great point guard puts up real stats, and propels his team to victory despite there not being many great pieces. The way people talk about Calderon, you'd think he was an MVP candidate.

3 of the top 4 on the PER list made the all star team. Baron is considered a snub in the West and Deron would probably be in if he played in the East. Parker has made the All-Star game previously.

Looks like the PER stat is pretty reliable in terms of identifying the top pgs.

[John Starks]

I'll say this -- Calderon, from his stats, is a high-level passer.

The AS Game NEEDS high level passers. The AS Game never has enough high level passers. The West will destroy the east this year, due to the East's lack of high-level passing.

doesn't make him an AS or a snub, but he'd be a nice addition to the game.

[Kblaze8855]

1 Chris Paul, 26.85
2 Chauncey Billups, 24.32
3 Jose Calderon, 22.89
4 Steve Nash, 22.00
5 T.J. Ford, 21.60
6 Baron Davis, 20.77
7 Deron Williams, 20.58
8 Tony Parker, 19.72
9 Devin Harris, 18.67
10 Andre Miller, 17.94

If ever a single list were enough to totally disregard a stat that is it. The fact that both of the Raptors points are top 5 in the league using it suggests enough really. Both points on the team are roughly the equal of...or better than...Steve Nash.

Its the kind of thing that both looks nice next to a guys name and at the same time shows why the number doesnt matter.

[tontoz]

If ever a single list were enough to totally disregard a stat that is it. The fact that both of the Raptors points are top 5 in the league using it suggests enough really. Both points on the team are roughly the equal of...or better than...Steve Nash.

Its the kind of thing that both looks nice next to a guys name and at the same time shows why the number doesnt matter.


But when you quotes someones stats from 1988 they somehow do matter. OK

What you can't seem to grasp is that there is a big difference between saying someone is a better player and saying someone is playing better this year.

Jason Kidd isn't in the top 10 on the PER list but that doesn't mean he isn't a better player than Devin Harris. It just means Kidd is having an off year.

[kwajo]

I figured no one outside of John Hollinger and Chuck Swirsky thought Jose deserved to be an All-Star, but I guess there are a few more than that. Strange, given that its pretty obvious that he isn't on that level at all.

[Optimus Prime]

Gilbo makes a valid point. Calderon is a backup PG who has a good assist to turnover ratio. There's more to being an All Star than having a good assist to turnover ratio.

Is Calderon the leader of his team? No? Is he even the #2 guy on his team? No? So, all he does is pass the ball to the guys who make all the plays. Got it.

That sounds like an All Star to me. :rolleyes:

[boozehound]

Gilbo makes a valid point. Calderon is a backup PG who has a good assist to turnover ratio. There's more to being an All Star than having a good assist to turnover ratio.

Is Calderon the leader of his team? No? Is he even the #2 guy on his team? No? So, all he does is pass the ball to the guys who make all the plays. Got it.

That sounds like an All Star to me. :rolleyes:
again, hes started the last 20 odd games or whatever and hes averaging almost 10 assists for the season (as well as shooting over 50%, which is certainly something gilbo cant claim ever). the A:T ratio is nice but its only part of the picture. I personally dont think he should be an allstar (but I also dont care about the stupid ASG), but the retarded underrating of calderon in this thread has caused my ignore list to explode.

gilbo also makes the point that if you take a guy off a team and they dont fall apart then the guy isnt an allstar, which basically quashes any votes for him in my future, since its clear that the GUY on the wiz that applies to is Caron and not the Charking or whatever he wants to call himself.

[tontoz]

again, hes started the last 20 odd games or whatever and hes averaging almost 10 assists for the season (as well as shooting over 50%, which is certainly something gilbo cant claim ever). the A:T ratio is nice but its only part of the picture. I personally dont think he should be an allstar (but I also dont care about the stupid ASG), but the retarded underrating of calderon in this thread has caused my ignore list to explode.


I know what you mean. It isn't like i am campaigning for Calderon. But the nonsensical notion that his stats don't matter while the stats of other players do is just flat out dumb.

[Optimus Prime]

I understand this. But having a nice stat doesn't make you an All Star. Nash (for example) is averaging around 10 assists per game too, but he does so much more than just dish out dimes. That is why Nash is an All Star, and Calderon is not.

Let's see Calderon carry the Raps on his back with Bosh out for a few weeks. It's not going to happen. Calderon is a great role player, but he's no All Star.


again, hes started the last 20 odd games or whatever and hes averaging almost 10 assists for the season. the A:T ratio is nice but its only part of the picture. I personally dont think he should be an allstar (but I also dont care about the stupid ASG), but the retarded underrating of calderon in this thread has caused my ignore list to explode.

[tontoz]

Let's see Calderon carry the Raps on his back with Bosh out for a few weeks. It's not going to happen. Calderon is a great role player, but he's no All Star.



By that standard neither is Kidd. He has Vince and Jefferson and they still suck.

[Optimus Prime]

Maybe, but when Calderon is putting up triple doubles, and is the unquestionable leader of his team, then we can use that scenario.

BTW, I'd rather be dishing out dimes to Bosh than VC and RJ combined.


By that standard neither is Kidd. He has Vince and Jefferson and they still suck.

[tontoz]

Maybe, but when Calderon is putting up triple doubles,

But i thought the standard was putting a team on your back?

So now the standard has changed to who is a better rebounder. No question Kidd is a better rebounder than Calderon but that is hardly a reason to justify selection to the All-star game. it is more like an indictment of the Nets frontcourt.

Kidd is averaging 11 ppg shooting 36.7%. That just blows.

[Optimus Prime]

Jason Kidd does put the Nets on his back. He's the undoubted leader of that team. Without Jason Kidd, and with VC (:roll: ) or RJ leading that team, they are worse than the Heat.

Yes, Ason Kidd is a pretty bad shooter, but he takes over the game in other ways than shooting.

The point that you're not willing to concede is that the Nets are Kidd's team, and Calderon just happens to be a good PG on the Raptors. It's easy to put up big numbers when all you're asked to do is put up those numbers. But when you're asked to lead the team, be the MAN when the chips are down, things get a bit more complicated.

By all these Raptors/Calderon fans' reasoning, ZBo should be an All Star too, because look at his numbers! :rolleyes:

ZBo = 17/10 on 46% shooting
Calderon = 13/9 on 54% shooting

Technically, ZBo does more for his team, since his numbers are better. :lol:

Now, back in reality, ZBo is not an All Star, nor is Calderon.


But i thought the standard was putting a team on your back?

So now the standard has changed to who is a better rebounder. No question Kidd is a better rebounder than Calderon but that is hardly a reason to justify selection to the All-star game. it is more like an indictment of the Nets frontcourt.

Kidd is averaging 11 ppg shooting 36.7%. That just blows.

[brwnman]

Calderon is not an all-star and many of the Raptors' fans are saying that but their views are somehow being overlooked... and if people have seen Calderon playing D recently (from Boston game onwards), you can see that his man D has been vastly improved from where it was before; his help D still needs work... and for all lobbying Redd for an all-star spot, he isn't even the focal point of their team anymore, word is that they've grown tired of his chucking and focal point of their offense now begins with Andrew Bogut... not saying that he is better talent wise than Redd, but that has to be taken for what it's worth... people arguing Tinsley, Felton, Boobie Gibson and the likes are better just not watching the raptors at all - so their viewpoint should be negated...

simply put, if we have Dixon starting instead of Calderon while Ford was out; we'd be a lottery bound team right now... and for all those people saying that Calderon is a backup and can't even start over Ford - well Ginobili doesn't start over Finley, Bowen or Parker - chew on that for a bit... and as mentioned in this thread before, majority of Calderon's play this year has been as a starter, granted because of his injury - there is a good chance he'll start the rest of the way...

some more points to throw at you guys, when Felton was out, McInnis really set the tone as a floor general, as much as I hate him - he played at where the Bobcats wanted him to play and play within the system - and he played better than Felton (not stats-wise, but as a floor general)... so why will felton get more burn? Future... that is being overlooked in this conversation... Raptors' 3 cornerstone players were coming into this season were Ford, Bosh and Bargnani... and while Rasho was doing a formidable job and Bargs' was blowing, he still got the starting spot, because he is our future (and no finally turning the corner a little bit)... Ford was/is our future, and while Calderon is also relatively young, we all saw him as a trade bait that we can trade for a wing player, and this may be under revision because of Ford's health concern - but that is also being overlooked... it doesn't hurt Ford's case that when he was healthy in the beginning of the season, he was our best player and Calderon was our second best player, Bosh was struggling... and now, Bosh is our best player and Calderon is still our second most valuable player and if Ford gets the starting job back, it'll be more because of our future and less because of Calderon's inability to lead the starting PG duties...

P.S. - this little rant was for people who would read and not just take one script out of this and start putting rofl smilies everywhere and argue with nothing but smilies...

[brwnman]

Let's see Calderon carry the Raps on his back with Bosh out for a few weeks. It's not going to happen. Calderon is a great role player, but he's no All Star.

you do know that when Bosh has off-nights, it is calderon that is leading the way for the raptors' right? or you don't know because you don't watch the raptors enough? either way, just clearing that up for you...

no-one here is saying Calderon is a superstar and can carry a team on his own, but the fact is only a few players in this league that can... JJ hasn't been able to do it, Redd hasn't been able to do it, J-Kidd hasn't done it this year... why do I bring those players up specifically? because I believe that those teams have more talent than the raptors' overall... raptors' are comprised of a superstar (or just a star for those nit-picky posters) and a bunch of solid players... not players that will take you to the top, but ones that help pave the way... AP is just solid, Moon is solid for what the Raps ask from him, Bargnani has lately been good, but for most of the season, he has actually been a liablity... Rasho is a great defensive player, and not an offensive threat whatsoever... Hump is a serviceable big man, delfino is streaky and just a good role player, and Kapono is actually better than the one dimensional three point shooter that people think he is... he is actually a very good system defender and his three point shooting, opens up space for Bosh to operate, the few times that they're on the floor together, but the fact remains, he needs shots created for him...

and so for all those player, there needed to be a creator (esp. when Ford is out), and Calderon was it for the Raptors and he led them to a winning record and kept them afloat... you cannot understate that...

P.S. - why is winning being so overlooked in this thread (especially the Duncan vs. Garnett threads that we used to have)? in every other thread, people always argue winning because it's the most important facet of the game - but just because there is a Calderon hate going on, winning is overlooked...

[tontoz]

Jason Kidd does put the Nets on his back.

And he is carrying them where exactly? Last i check they were 7 games under .500 with Vince and Jefferson. Pretty lame.



Yes, Ason Kidd is a pretty bad shooter, but he takes over the game in other ways than shooting.



Obviously he isn't taking over enough since their record blows.

[Optimus Prime]

They are only 5 games below the Raptors, with plenty of season left to play.

:confusedshrug:

Now you're just sounding homerish, which is odd since it appears you have a Hawks avatar.


And he is carrying them where exactly? Last i check they were 7 games under .500 with Vince and Jefferson. Pretty lame.




Obviously he isn't taking over enough since their record blows.

[tontoz]

I am just being a realist. Kidd is having a bad year playing on an underachieving team, simple as that. When VC went to NJ everyone made a big deal about it but what have the Big 3 accomplished? Nada

I can understand people thinking Calderon isn't an All-Star but i have a problem with people who refuse to give him credit for having a strong year. Somehow his stats are "empty" while someone else's stats are real. GTFO

[brwnman]

They are only 5 games below the Raptors, with plenty of season left to play.

:confusedshrug:

Now you're just sounding homerish, which is odd since it appears you have a Hawks avatar.

He is a hawks' fan, but maybe he watches calderon unlike you and some of the other posters' here... I hate it when a poster is arguing and debating with the right arguments about a player, it makes him sound homerish somehow, even when he might hate that team...

[Make It Rain]

At first, I thought Calderon was highly overrated. But I'm buying into the hype. He can be mentioned in the same breath as Deron Williams and Co. Calderon is as as refined and as efficient as any PG in this league. We could easily see him averaging 18 and 12 next year.

[Make It Rain]

Gilbo makes a valid point. Calderon is a backup PG who has a good assist to turnover ratio. There's more to being an All Star than having a good assist to turnover ratio.

Is Calderon the leader of his team? No? Is he even the #2 guy on his team? No? So, all he does is pass the ball to the guys who make all the plays. Got it.

That sounds like an All Star to me. :rolleyes:
Have you watched the Raptors recently? How is Calderon NOT the #2 guy on the team? Some can even make the argument that at times, he's the #1 guy.

[brwnman]

At first, I thought Calderon was highly overrated. But I'm buying into the hype. He can be mentioned in the same breath as Deron Williams and Co. Calderon is as as refined and as efficient as any PG in this league. We could easily see him averaging 18 and 12 next year.

actually he cannot be mentioned in the same breath, he isn't that type of player, Deron is definitely a couple of notches above Calderon... Deron can create for himself and is a better penetrator than Calderon...

[Make It Rain]

actually he cannot be mentioned in the same breath, he isn't that type of player, Deron is definitely a couple of notches above Calderon... Deron can create for himself and is a better penetrator than Calderon...
I didn't say they were equals. I said they are closer than people think. The more knowledgeable fans have seen Calderon's contributions.

[brwnman]

I didn't say they were equals. I said they are closer than people think. The more knowledgeable fans have seen Calderon's contributions.

nope, you said they can be mentioned in the same breath, while I say they can't - Deron is a couple of notches above Calderon without a doubt...

[Optimus Prime]

Don't misunderstand me. I wasn't hating on Calderon. I'm sure he is a very good player. But he's not All Star good.

[LJJ]

Arenas comparing Calderon to Kevin Ollie. :rolleyes:

I like him, but he does say stupid things sometimes. Calderon wasn't snubbed, but he isn't exactly lightyears from being an All Star either as Nacho tries to make it.

[brwnman]

Don't misunderstand me. I wasn't hating on Calderon. I'm sure he is a very good player. But he's not All Star good.

he is not, I agree...

[tontoz]

Don't misunderstand me. I wasn't hating on Calderon. I'm sure he is a very good player. But he's not All Star good.

Sheed hasn't been All-Star good this year either. Neither has JJ. The east is weak.

[Optimus Prime]

'Sheed was put in because KG was hurt. KG is a forward. Sheed is a forward. Calderon is not a forward. Therefore, your argument holds no ground.

Joe Johnson is a bit of a puzzlement, but he's the man on his team, as opposed to Calderon, who is only playing because TJ is hurt, and the Raps are Bosh's team anyway.


Sheed hasn't been All-Star good this year either. Neither has JJ. The east is weak.

[tontoz]

'Sheed was put in because KG was hurt. KG is a forward. Sheed is a forward. Calderon is not a forward. Therefore, your argument holds no ground.



No you simply misread what i wrote.

You said Calderon isn't All-Star good. I said Sheed hasn't been All-Star good either. I didn't say that Calderon should have been picked instead of Sheed. I was merely pointing out that the East team is weak therefore guys (Sheed and JJ) who normally wouldn't be considered got in.

[grimreaper1377]

He's just pissed because he didn't make it. :hammerhead:

:cheers:

[ALBballer]

An All-Star is an All-Star! He’s playing at a high level. That means, if you take him off the team, that team should fall down if he’s that one guy.

I love how he cover his ass with that quote. Because he almost made the case that he shouldn't be an all-star.

[otmtheshank]

When I first heard fans campaigning for Jose to make the All-Star team, I thought they were crazy. But when you look at the quality of players/guards in the East, then it doesn't seem so crazy. I wouldn't have Calderon on the original roster, but I'd say he's somewhere in the top 20/25 most deserving players in the East. He's right there with Hedo, Bogut, G. Wall, Allen, maybe a tad below the last two in terms of deservance for an all-star spot;maybe he's even next in line depending on your criteria.

[grimreaper1377]

When I first heard fans campaigning for Jose to make the All-Star team, I thought they were crazy. But when you look at the quality of players/guards in the East, then it doesn't seem so crazy. I wouldn't have Calderon on the original roster, but I'd say he's somewhere in the top 20/25 most deserving players in the East. He's right there with Hedo, Bogut, G. Wall, Allen, maybe a tad below the last two in terms of deservance for an all-star spot;maybe he's even next in line depending on your criteria.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[otmtheshank]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Why the hell do you even post if you're not contribute anything to the discussion. The last 3 posts I've seen you make have all been damn smilie faces or guys laughing. Grow the hell up.

[skan72]

He couldn't even win out the starting job from T.J Ford!! He's a quality bench player and he plays smart but he is borderline starter and definately not allstar level caliber

Okay, so how come he is killing it as a starter?

[skan72]

el calderon sucks. get over it please.

You have foye4mvp as your name and a picture of him...you think Calderon is a scrub? WTF has Foye done?

[Coolaak]

until arenas comes back and lights it up like last year jose>arenas

[skan72]

I watched a few of his games, but buddy the raptors are hard to watch. He isn't impressive at all, yeah he takes good shots and makes some smart decisions but there's nothing he does that makes him allstar level. Tinsely, Felton, Mo Williams>Calderon as PGs in the east.

Do you watch any games that aren't Raptors and than just read the boxscores to figure out what happens with the other teams? because thats what it sounds like talking to you guys

Do you even know what a ****ing proper argument is? Because the shit you keep tossing out is not even coming close to argument.
I am also someone who agrees Jose is not an all-star, but he is not even close to how bad you two (FOYE4MVP and yourself) keep trying to make him out to be.

[skan72]

I never liked the PER stat, I would say a great point guard puts up real stats, and propels his team to victory despite there not being many great pieces. The way people talk about Calderon, you'd think he was an MVP candidate.

I'm sorry, puts up real stats and propels his team to victory? Is that not what Calderon is doing? I realize as Raptors fans we are being bashed for supposedly only watching Raptors' games, but it sounds like you have never ever watched a Raptors' game, even if they play your team.

[EricForman]

Arenas actually said

"An All-Star is an All-Star! He

[Lebron23]

seriously, jose calderon... all-star my ass.


I am not even a raptors fan, but to say that Jose is not all star material is ridiculous.

Calderon is one of the best PG in the Eastern Conference, and he is arguably making his teammates better since TJ Ford was out with an injury.

[skan72]

'Sheed was put in because KG was hurt. KG is a forward. Sheed is a forward. Calderon is not a forward. Therefore, your argument holds no ground.

Joe Johnson is a bit of a puzzlement, but he's the man on his team, as opposed to Calderon, who is only playing because TJ is hurt, and the Raps are Bosh's team anyway.

If we're considering forwards, put in RJ, not Sheed, or even Josh Smith.

[Kblaze8855]

That was some good reading....

[Im Still Ballin]

Epic bump.

[Stanley Kobrick]

Epic bump.
:cheers: