Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

[Bruinlove]

China has far from the strongest basketball team on the world stage, but they have the largest fanbase of the sport in the world, and Yao ended the season in order to get healthy for the Olympic games. The basketball tournament is hyped up in China and the fans are expecting alot. I think China will get put into a weak basketball pool and even then have the refs throw the game in their favor until the semifinals in which case it will be too obvious to throw the game in their favor, China will get blown out and they will have to settle for the bronze, which they will win in another rigged game. Am I the only one who thinks that will happen?

[Make It Rain]

They can rig every game and China still won't get a medal.

[K.Koscik]

I really hope not.

[Hawker]

The home team always gets put in a weak pool. Look at Germany in the last World Cup. Such a breeze.

[dirkdiggler41]

China has far from the strongest basketball team on the world stage, but they have the largest fanbase of the sport in the world, and Yao ended the season in order to get healthy for the Olympic games. The basketball tournament is hyped up in China and the fans are expecting alot. I think China will get put into a weak basketball pool and even then have the refs throw the game in their favor until the semifinals in which case it will be too obvious to throw the game in their favor, China will get blown out and they will have to settle for the bronze, which they will win in another rigged game. Am I the only one who thinks that will happen?

I loled. I heard Heat is still paying the refs for the 06

[Bruinlove]

Lets say they get put in the pool with Australia, the lowest Euro seed and the lowest American region team. They advance from that, only to meet up with the top Asian team (whoever that is, they suck probably).

Next they will go against someone like Croatia and it will be impossible to cheat that game and they will get blown out. In the bronze metal game, they will be against some Eastern Euro team like Lithuania, who will get payed off to throw the game, and even then, they will only lose by 4.

China will get a bronze and declare their rellevance on the world stage. That is the scenario I see playing out.

[plowking]

I loled. I heard Heat is still paying the refs for the 06

:cry:

[bdreason]

US team will stomp the China team if need be. No way that game could be rigged without people noticing. They would essentially have to foul out the entire US squad.

In other words, I don't care if it is rigged. I just want the US to show up ready to play.

[jason816]

so much hate on Chinese basketball.

it's Olympic. no corrupted NBA refs.

[brantonli]

I don't think so, because basketball isn't the only sport that China is hoping to succeed in, afterall, we're pretty good at table tennis, diving, and another random sport which I can't remember. It would not be worth it to 'rig' the Olympic basketball games, because of the magnitude and importance of them. If discovered, boom, China's reputation, already fragile, will be blown open. So I don't think so.

[RoseCity07]

You can rig a game all you want, that's not going to stop Kobe and Lebron from completely dominating China. Then there is Dwight Howard, KG, Melo and other super stars.

I think after next season if Greg Oden can complete season he will also be on the Olympic team. This isn't soccer...USA >>>>>>>>China

[dirkdiggler41]

Right now USA got nothing before they show what they can do in the OL. Every year we talk about not if they are going to win, but by how much.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/09/03/sports/03Hoops.1.600.jpg

[Make It Rain]

so much hate on Chinese basketball.

it's Olympic. no corrupted NBA refs.
I hope that isn't a joke. There has been corruption in the Olympics in the past.

[meh]

First off, just to get it out of the way... China WILL get preferential treatment in the Olympics because they're the host country. Probably in both the matter of having a weak group or in terms of getting "hometown calls". This usually happens with every Olympic(or other world-wide competition like World Cup) host country.

But to say things will be rigged is going way too far. And if it does get rigged, it will be due to mafia/sports betting rather than some government conspiracy.

[23airjordan23]

so much hate on Chinese basketball.

it's Olympic. no corrupted NBA refs.

agree their way stricter int he olympics, china wont win if they have yao! i ahte yao:banghead:
us team will dominate, but go the aussies

[LutherHeadJob]

pff. yao will easily avg 50 ppg once he gets back from his injury, no rigging required

but they will probably rig it anyway

seriously though, team china will win the gold medal i reckon (LOL)


ok seriously from now on
USA can't beat the europeans anymore so i don't think they will win... Seriously

my tip: Argentina to win gold

Australia..are we even in the basketball event?...pointless, we will even lose to china..

[JtotheIzzo]

China has far from the strongest basketball team on the world stage, but they have the largest fanbase of the sport in the world, and Yao ended the season in order to get healthy for the Olympic games. The basketball tournament is hyped up in China and the fans are expecting alot. I think China will get put into a weak basketball pool and even then have the refs throw the game in their favor until the semifinals in which case it will be too obvious to throw the game in their favor, China will get blown out and they will have to settle for the bronze, which they will win in another rigged game. Am I the only one who thinks that will happen?

Here is how it works, according to the Chinese officials, basketball is the fourth most popular sport in the olympics behind track, gymnastics and swimming, so it is important, but not the be all and end all you make it out to be. The Chinese Olympic officials (their sporting federation whatever...) actually backed out of a few ventures to promote hoops from 2006 to 2008 because they deemed it not worthwhile, I know this because my old company bid on a few projects.

There will be some shenanigans, tomfoolery or chicanery, but it will probably not be in basketball. My bet is gymnastics or diving where judges are vulnerable to bribery. Koreans are the masters of this:

-In 1988 a Korean boxer defeated Roy Jones Jr. in a split decision despite getting out punched by almost 100 punches.
-In the 2002 world cup reliable sources heard rumors that the prostitutes and large sums of US Dollars were sent to the referees hotel rooms the night before Korea match against Spain, where in which dodgy officiating gave Korea the win.

I don't think China will cheat because they are a force in the Olympics already, and all the demonstration sports will be weird ass games that are only played in China so they will own those too.

The Chinese are very keen to win it all however, so you can bet that if it is close there will be some judges at the pool or the gymnastics venue looking a little too favorably on China.

In hoops they realize their limitations.

[DCL]

of course, it's gonna be rigged.

that's why teams have to blow out china by quite a margin or else you can be sure there's gonna be a lot of bullsh.t calls late in the game.

a missed whistle here and a bullsh!t foul call there can easily change the outcome. and these phantom calls can be very damaging to opposing teams because china can shoot their free throws.

[DJ Leon Smith]

If you're going to say that the Chinese team will easily beat the Australian team, please do some research first. China (with Yao and Yi) can't even beat teams from the Australian NBL competition - the last time they played against a NBL team, the Sydney Kings, game ended in a draw when the Kings coach told his team to leave the court before overtime, feeling they were Kobe'd by the refs.

It won't be all Chinese refs at the Olympics though so it'll be hard to rig it. And the refs would have to really, really, really work hard to get the Chinese hoops team a medal.

[Kiddlovesnets]

The home team always gets put in a weak pool. Look at Germany in the last World Cup. Such a breeze.

Well, Germany is far better compared with the Koreans, who clinched the Semi-final by abusing their Home court's referee power.

[Sharas]

the home team always gets the benefit of the doubt from the refs. in all the competitions and sports. just the way things work.

though, i wouldn't call it outright "rigged"...in most cases it doesn't amount to that much. they'll probably get a few doubtable calls here and there, along with the easier seeding...but i still can't see them winning a medal.

and yeah, south korea in 2002 WC was a bit more extreme example.

[jason816]

somebody said it right.

China dominates in a lots of field.
for years, China holds more gold medals than any other countries except USA.. this year, we may have a good competition~ especially it's in our home.

Basketball, we know our limits, we are improving.
don't say things like you know all about we chinese just because you watched TV. especially propaganda kind of sh*t

[insidehoops]

Olympic refs are from varying countries, not just the host country.

[JtotheIzzo]

Olympic refs are from varying countries, not just the host country.

money is spent everywhere

[la bomba]

This thread is a load of pish1you guys are all paranoid,it won't be rigged,China don't stand a chance,it would need to be more than rigged for them to do anything.All the european teams in the comp and Australia are better than China,and no refereeing decisions is going to help them.Yes Yao is good,Yi is still green but there is nothing else.I have seen Spain destroy them twice in a week in a couple of friendlies that was with Yao and Yi ,and I also saw that game that someone else was referring to against the sydney Kings.
Guys stop being so Paranoid,nothing will be rigged.

[simasu01]

china has absolutely no chance, just about every team that qualified is better than them. dont talk **** about lithuania, we're gonna be win it, and for that matter, we're in NORTHERN Europe.

[Ballertom04]

China Are A Really Good Team But Riggin The Compition Won't Do Much HAHA

[GoldMedallist]

Let's be serious.

Spain would destroy Chinese team.
Argentina would destroy Chinese team.
USA would destroy Chinese team.
Lithuania would destroy Chinese team.
Greece would win Chinese team.
France would win Chinese team.
Italy would win Chinese team.
Germany would win Chinese team.
Brazil would win chinese team.
etc...

Chinese would be good when they get 10 NBA players... but not now.

[dd24]

ok seriously from now on
USA can't beat the europeans anymore so i don't think they will win... Seriously

my tip: Argentina to win gold

Australia..are we even in the basketball event?...pointless, we will even lose to china..

USA hasn't sent their best players for quite some time. Even this year some of the best are missing, but at least Kobe will be there, even though he'll be playing through an injury.

Here's the thing that I can't believe most people don't talk about. The European basketball rules are different so a less athletic player has a better chance against a more athletic player. I can't wait until FIBA adopts more of the NBA rules. I believe that happens in 2010. Just wait until European athletes have to run a longer court, shoot a longer 3, and don't have a trapezoid for a lane. It's no coincidence that many of the Europeans that come to play in the NBA are busts, but we can send our second rate college athletes to go play in the euroleagues.

[dd24]

I loled. I heard Heat is still paying the refs for the 06

That is funny. I'm not a fan of the Heat or the Mavericks but I've been saying that for the past couple of years as well. I think there is even something to be said about this years playoffs. Instant replay would fix a lot of problems.

[la bomba]

USA hasn't sent their best players for quite some time. Even this year some of the best are missing, but at least Kobe will be there, even though he'll be playing through an injury.

Here's the thing that I can't believe most people don't talk about. The European basketball rules are different so a less athletic player has a better chance against a more athletic player. I can't wait until FIBA adopts more of the NBA rules. I believe that happens in 2010. Just wait until European athletes have to run a longer court, shoot a longer 3, and don't have a trapezoid for a lane. It's no coincidence that many of the Europeans that come to play in the NBA are busts, but we can send our second rate college athletes to go play in the euroleagues.
That is probably the most derogatory and inaccurate piece of dribble I have ever read in here.First USA have had,Wade when he was ta his best,Iversen,Duncan,Garnett,Howard,etc Pretty much allstar players.FIBA rules are just changing some of the dimensions,the rules will remain fiba and i hope they remain that way and not the pathetic nba rules which dont allow you to defend as a team,or those stupid time out cop outs that players are allowed to abuse when good defence has put them in a position that they are about to turn the ball over.Europeans flopping?Nowitzki,Stojakovic,Gasol,Sabonis,Petrovi c,illgauskas,etc all flops? and americans in europe?wow I could name hundreds of flops!!as could most people in here. If europeans did so badly there wouldnt be that many in the NBA!

[b.jerk]

The euroleague has caught up with the five star teams that nba has but because qualification was last year, you won't really see it until the fiba tournament in two years

[simasu01]

Go ahead send your players from college to Europe. You still can't win anything for 8 years, everyone is hoping it will go more than that. FIBA rules are basketball rules meant for defence and team basketball, NBA rules are show rules so Americans would watch the game and be excited about the show, not basketball. Celtics played like a FIBA team, while Lakers played like an NBA team. See the results? Seriously, if Europeans are this bad, how come they win awards in the NBA and more and more keep coming?

[la bomba]

Just seen the USA team,not too different to previous years.Shouldn't worry some of the other teams too much.Loads of ball huggers in there,they will be fighting for shots,the likes of Wade,Lebron and Howard have already been there and have been humbled.

[dd24]

That is probably the most derogatory and inaccurate piece of dribble I have ever read in here.First USA have had,Wade when he was ta his best,Iversen,Duncan,Garnett,Howard,etc Pretty much allstar players.FIBA rules are just changing some of the dimensions,the rules will remain fiba and i hope they remain that way and not the pathetic nba rules which dont allow you to defend as a team,or those stupid time out cop outs that players are allowed to abuse when good defence has put them in a position that they are about to turn the ball over.Europeans flopping?Nowitzki,Stojakovic,Gasol,Sabonis,Petrovi c,illgauskas,etc all flops? and americans in europe?wow I could name hundreds of flops!!as could most people in here. If europeans did so badly there wouldnt be that many in the NBA!

Same could be said for this post. Wow you named five players out of hundreds. Speaking of flopping and the NBA rules it seems that the people from Europe have been the ones that do it the most. Is there Americans that go to Europe and flop. I'm sure of it, because all you get are our second and third rate players. You get all of our flops. That is the point I was making. Thanks for helping me out. Our scrubs who can't make it over here go to Europe. While I'm sure not all make the team, there are plenty that do. There is no way those teams in Europe have near the talent an NBA team does.

The roster was just announced today. There's only 4 people who were on the 2004 team. Garnett hasn't played on the team since 2000, when they won gold. You've never seen Garnett, Duncan and Howard on the same team. Don't try to make it sound like the best possible team the USA could put together has went to the Olympics besides 1992. Heck, if Garnett would have been on the team in 04 that would have made enough of a difference for them to win gold. It wouldn't have been blow out wins but they would have went undefeated. Then when the refs called all those horrible fouls on Duncan to get him out of the game, the team would have actually had a back up to play center. Or you probably conveniently forgot about how the 2004 team didn't have a back up at center. Or you may think that Okafur is an elite player in the world. Yeah right. AI are you kidding me even bringing that one up. Iverson's style of play hardly fits most NBA teams let alone international play. Marbury is hardly an elite PG in the league anymore. Wade is good but he isn't a true PG. He plays shooting gaurd in Miami. You must have just forgot that even the couple of nice pieces we had were playing out of position. Carmello is a SF but was playing PF. This year you will find that with a much different team the results are going to be much different. This years team is going to be different than what people saw in 2006. There's no Joe Johnson, Antawn Jamison, Shane Battier, Kirk Hinrich, Brad Miller, etc.
There still is one thing that does concern me with the 2008 team. Again we don't have a back up at center. If KG, Duncan, and Howard would play on the same team together the games would all be blow outs. Since they only have Howard there may be a game or two they are tested but with guys like Kobe, Paul, James, Redd, etc they will still come out on top. Only 6 of the players on this team are from that 2006 team and only 8 are from the 2007 team.

I never said all Europeans were bad. Don't even try to throw that label on me. Is there a few in the NBA that have done well and won a couple of awards, absolutely. How many of those great European players started in the All-star game again? Zero. How many of those great European players even made it to the All-star game? One, Dirk is an obvious choice. Typically that is the one time where we have all of our best players together. Unfortunately, we don't mesh the two together for the Olympics. So where are all these great European basketball players the one time of the year we get together the greatest athletes in the NBA? The point is the majority of them are busts. It's a fact. How many Europeans since say the 2002 draft are even starters in the league. I'd be impressed if there's more than two. Sasha isn't near a starter but finally had a decent season this year. Before that everybody wanted him out of the league. Udrih starts in Sacramento. Bargnani starts but is looking to be a bust. #1 pick in the draft and he averaged 10.2ppg and 3.7rpg last year. Now Toronto is looking for another big man to put next to Bosh. Remind me again how many great Europeans there are currently playing in the NBA. Don't throw names like Petrovic into the conversation. That was a long time ago. If we really wanted to go back that far there would be too many busts to go through. Is the world catching up in basketball? Sure, because our coaches and players have went to other countries and taught them how to play. Is Europe catching up in basketball? Not as fast as the rest of the world. When you say there wouldn't be that many Europeans in the NBA you're right. There isn't very many. They get drafted and then cut. For every name you give me of a great European player I can give you the name of an American player that is better.

[dd24]

Just seen the USA team,not too different to previous years.Shouldn't worry some of the other teams too much.Loads of ball huggers in there,they will be fighting for shots,the likes of Wade,Lebron and Howard have already been there and have been humbled.

Not too different???? Work on your reading. There are only 6 players on the team from 2006 and only 8 from 2007. It's still not even close to the best roster we could put together, but it's enough to win the gold.

[la bomba]

Not too different???? Work on your reading. There are only 6 players on the team from 2006 and only 8 from 2007. It's still not even close to the best roster we could put together, but it's enough to win the gold.
6 or 8 players is for me a substantial part of a basketball squad.
Why the hell do you mention the all star game?that has nothing to do with the best players,its about the more spectacular players,more athletic,showtime players voted by the fans.Fans of NBA like spectacular athletic players.A.I who you dish,always goes!so you prove my point.The FIBA rules provide the basis for a better team sport,with great team defences if you dont like that type of ball,thats fine,I dont like the type of ball played in the NBA,with KOBE ball hugging,taking 35 shots and bollocking any team mate that doesn't pass the ball to him!You think all european players are flops? Maybe a lot of them don't cut it in the NBA because their game doesn't suit the NBA,doesn't mean they are worse players than those in the NBA.Spanoulis wasnt given a chance at the rockets,and the few chances he was given,he probably didn't take,yet he raped Team USA in the world championship,ripped a new arsehole in chris Paul's ass.Just like Papaloukas,diamantidis,schortsanitis etc,yet most of these players wont play in the NBA,so what? Papaloukas is one of the best p.g in the world,it doesnt matter if he doesnt play in the NBA.The NBA is not the only way of playing basketball.I hope that European players start realising that its not the be all and end all (like Navarro) and return to europe,that will make me happy and of course you too,so in that we both agree.
BY the way team USA are and will always be favourites for any of these tournaments,they have an inmense pool of talent,but they need to be more respectful of their opponents as it has been proved that they can compete.Puerto rico,serbia,spain,greece,argentina to name some of the teams that have beaten USA of late.

[dd24]

6 or 8 players is for me a substantial part of a basketball squad.
Why the hell do you mention the all star game?that has nothing to do with the best players,its about the more spectacular players,more athletic,showtime players voted by the fans.Fans of NBA like spectacular athletic players.A.I who you dish,always goes!so you prove my point.The FIBA rules provide the basis for a better team sport,with great team defences if you dont like that type of ball,thats fine,I dont like the type of ball played in the NBA,with KOBE ball hugging,taking 35 shots and bollocking any team mate that doesn't pass the ball to him!You think all european players are flops? Maybe a lot of them don't cut it in the NBA because their game doesn't suit the NBA,doesn't mean they are worse players than those in the NBA.Spanoulis wasnt given a chance at the rockets,and the few chances he was given,he probably didn't take,yet he raped Team USA in the world championship,ripped a new arsehole in chris Paul's ass.Just like Papaloukas,diamantidis,schortsanitis etc,yet most of these players wont play in the NBA,so what? Papaloukas is one of the best p.g in the world,it doesnt matter if he doesnt play in the NBA.The NBA is not the only way of playing basketball.I hope that European players start realising that its not the be all and end all (like Navarro) and return to europe,that will make me happy and of course you too,so in that we both agree.
BY the way team USA are and will always be favourites for any of these tournaments,they have an inmense pool of talent,but they need to be more respectful of their opponents as it has been proved that they can compete.Puerto rico,serbia,spain,greece,argentina to name some of the teams that have beaten USA of late.

Changing 6 players on a team is a substantial change.

Why do I bring up the all-star game? I believe I already mentioned this. The reason I bring it up is because like I've said we don't send our best players to the Olympics. It really does have to do with the best players. The best players are the most popular so they get voted in. Sure there are a few snubs every year but that's going to happen. Look at the rosters for last years all-star game. Those are certainly the best players in the NBA. KG, Tim Duncan, Shaq, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Chris Bosh, and Vince Carter all aren't on the Olympic team. Who in the world could match up with Team USA if they had Howard, KG, Duncan, and Shaq in the paint? But if we limit that to just Howard now the gap closes a little. Puerto Rico didn't beat the best players in the United States. Carlos Arroyo has gotten every opportunity in the world to be a star in the NBA. It hasn't happened and it won't happen. He can't even crack a starting line up on a team that is dying for help at the PG position.

I do disagree that the FIBA rules promote more of a team sport and this is pretty much what started this whole discussion. I believe the rules were needed to be made different because it gives players who are less athletic more of a chance. One of the results of this could be taken as that would force the players to work as a team but I don't see it as that. The way I see it is like this. It's kind of like when you are little kids and you are playing a board game. There's that one person who always wins, so you change the rules to give yourself a chance to win. Since there wasn't enough athletes that could completely take over a game it wasn't fair, so the rules were changed. I don't believe NBA rules are supreme and the only way to go. I truly think a combination of the two would be good for basketball as a whole. I don't like to watch players flop. I don't like when stupid touch fouls get called. No true NBA fan does. But I also dislike a trapezoid lane that forces teams with great centers to not use them. I dislike the fact that a team who can't play interior defense doesn't half to. If a team can't stop someone slashing into the lane they don't need to. There's certain aspects that are killed with both the rules, which is why I hope FIBA and the NBA work together to take the best from both. I love basketball in general and think it is in the best interest of the sport.

We can bring up Spanoulis, but again that is a team that didn't have it's best players on the court. Chris Paul then and now are two completely different things. Paul had only been in the league for one year at that time. The teams in 2004 and 2006 are by far the worst teams we've sent since 1992. In 2006 I would expect Spanoulis to tear him up in international play. In 2008 it will be much different. We can talk about Kobe too if you would like. He's really not a ball hog and really he's a pretty good teammate. When he was shooting a lot it's because he had to. He didn't have a team. He didn't have good players around him. It makes it tough to play a team game. You probably don't get to see the things about how Kobe takes the team out to dinner and picks up the tab all the time. If you really think he's a ball hog be sure to watch him play in the Olympics this year. You'll see how efficient he is and how ferocious he is on defense. Not to mention he'll be doing that with a hand that requires surgery.

It doesn't make sense for some Europeans to enter the NBA draft. One of the NBA's biggest mistakes is the rookie salary cap. There's players who would make more staying overseas than they will playing in the NBA as a rookie. I think if they started to realize this we would have less busts. If someone is good enough to be a lottery pick they can probably make more money. But it makes no sense for someone to enter the draft if they are going to be a late first round or second round pick. With the US dollar weakening added into that equation a mediocre player is better off in Europe. Let's face it second round picks no matter where they come from are all busts with just a few exceptions. Then there's the flip side of that too. There are teams in Europe that are willing to pay star athletes. Look at the offer Webber got from Olympiacos. He wasn't going to get anywhere near that here.

I actually don't understand the lash out against team USA. Basketball isn't even the #1 sport in Europe. When the USA loses in soccer you don't see us getting all upset. Our best athletes play in baseball, basketball, and football. Moreso basketball and football than anything. We should be winning at basketball and football, not that football is even a world wide sport. We should be losing at soccer. We can put out a team that is decent but obviously not a favorite. It's just the opposite for Europe. A European team should win at soccer. Many of your best athletes play soccer instead of basketball. You can put some decent teams on the floor for basketball but most are obviously not going to be favorites.

[Maniak]

1)We arent talking NBA refs here

2)You really think a team can stop Kobe and Lebron......you have lost it

and Melo is insane in the olympics

[simasu01]

Honestly, dd24, you know that there also are Euro teams that play with weak teams. In 2000, Lithuania almost beat team USA. A country of 3 million people. Shouldn't you be blowing teams out like that? And Lithuania never plays with their full squad. Only 2 NBA players, and Songaila isn't even that good. Ilgauskas last played for the national team in 1993. That means we haven't played with a full squad at least since then. For some reason, the NBA did send of their best players in 2002, 04 and 06. LeBron, Melo, and Wade were on 04 and 06 teams, and they are the faces of the NBA right? KG played in 2000, and as I mentioned, they were a shot away from losing. In 2002, USA was 6th in the world champs, and the team featured no superstars, but they should have still done much better, because they're NBA players and all stars, right? Same goes to 04 and 06. I watched most USA games in 2007 Americas, I was impressed, but also not convinced that they were good, because they faced no competition. Argentina had their scrubs, and Puerto Rico was dissapointing. I wish Canada had Nash, that would have been fun to watch. USA played like it was an all star game, throwing no look passes, alley oops and all that. That's fun to watch sure, but what will they do when they see defence? Spain should be the biggest problem, and then Lithuania and Argentina come next. USA has only Spain to compete with in the group, and hopefully they will get 2 top qualifiers there, like Croatia, Greece, Slovenia or Brazil. USA underestimates the world, likewise with the American citizens. They think the world is scared of them and that they are the best. Neither is true. I'm hoping for Lithuania, Spain and Argentina in the top 3 this year, hopefully in this order. Nobody wants to see the USA with medals, I hope they would get knocked out in the group stages, which is almost impossible, but then again, France didn't get out of their group in this years Euros. Never know what might happen.

[la bomba]

Changing 6 players on a team is a substantial change.

Why do I bring up the all-star game? I believe I already mentioned this. The reason I bring it up is because like I've said we don't send our best players to the Olympics. It really does have to do with the best players. The best players are the most popular so they get voted in. Sure there are a few snubs every year but that's going to happen. Look at the rosters for last years all-star game. Those are certainly the best players in the NBA. KG, Tim Duncan, Shaq, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Chris Bosh, and Vince Carter all aren't on the Olympic team. Who in the world could match up with Team USA if they had Howard, KG, Duncan, and Shaq in the paint? But if we limit that to just Howard now the gap closes a little. Puerto Rico didn't beat the best players in the United States. Carlos Arroyo has gotten every opportunity in the world to be a star in the NBA. It hasn't happened and it won't happen. He can't even crack a starting line up on a team that is dying for help at the PG position.

I do disagree that the FIBA rules promote more of a team sport and this is pretty much what started this whole discussion. I believe the rules were needed to be made different because it gives players who are less athletic more of a chance. One of the results of this could be taken as that would force the players to work as a team but I don't see it as that. The way I see it is like this. It's kind of like when you are little kids and you are playing a board game. There's that one person who always wins, so you change the rules to give yourself a chance to win. Since there wasn't enough athletes that could completely take over a game it wasn't fair, so the rules were changed. I don't believe NBA rules are supreme and the only way to go. I truly think a combination of the two would be good for basketball as a whole. I don't like to watch players flop. I don't like when stupid touch fouls get called. No true NBA fan does. But I also dislike a trapezoid lane that forces teams with great centers to not use them. I dislike the fact that a team who can't play interior defense doesn't half to. If a team can't stop someone slashing into the lane they don't need to. There's certain aspects that are killed with both the rules, which is why I hope FIBA and the NBA work together to take the best from both. I love basketball in general and think it is in the best interest of the sport.

We can bring up Spanoulis, but again that is a team that didn't have it's best players on the court. Chris Paul then and now are two completely different things. Paul had only been in the league for one year at that time. The teams in 2004 and 2006 are by far the worst teams we've sent since 1992. In 2006 I would expect Spanoulis to tear him up in international play. In 2008 it will be much different. We can talk about Kobe too if you would like. He's really not a ball hog and really he's a pretty good teammate. When he was shooting a lot it's because he had to. He didn't have a team. He didn't have good players around him. It makes it tough to play a team game. You probably don't get to see the things about how Kobe takes the team out to dinner and picks up the tab all the time. If you really think he's a ball hog be sure to watch him play in the Olympics this year. You'll see how efficient he is and how ferocious he is on defense. Not to mention he'll be doing that with a hand that requires surgery.

It doesn't make sense for some Europeans to enter the NBA draft. One of the NBA's biggest mistakes is the rookie salary cap. There's players who would make more staying overseas than they will playing in the NBA as a rookie. I think if they started to realize this we would have less busts. If someone is good enough to be a lottery pick they can probably make more money. But it makes no sense for someone to enter the draft if they are going to be a late first round or second round pick. With the US dollar weakening added into that equation a mediocre player is better off in Europe. Let's face it second round picks no matter where they come from are all busts with just a few exceptions. Then there's the flip side of that too. There are teams in Europe that are willing to pay star athletes. Look at the offer Webber got from Olympiacos. He wasn't going to get anywhere near that here.

I actually don't understand the lash out against team USA. Basketball isn't even the #1 sport in Europe. When the USA loses in soccer you don't see us getting all upset. Our best athletes play in baseball, basketball, and football. Moreso basketball and football than anything. We should be winning at basketball and football, not that football is even a world wide sport. We should be losing at soccer. We can put out a team that is decent but obviously not a favorite. It's just the opposite for Europe. A European team should win at soccer. Many of your best athletes play soccer instead of basketball. You can put some decent teams on the floor for basketball but most are obviously not going to be favorites.
In some things we agree in others we don't,fair enough thats the point of these forums.One thing though,basketball in lithuania is the number 1 sport,it isn't in the USA.In Slovenia basketball is also more important than football(proper football that is,the one you kick a ball with your feet hence the name,and not the one you handle a melon and occassionally kick).In countries like Croatia,Serbia and Greece basketball is also on a par with football.
The board game analogy I just don't get.

[b.jerk]

The euroleague is a violent game and it will depends how team usa will adjust to the fiba rules including hand checking and contact, I could see it being both no big deal or a major issue

[dd24]

Honestly, dd24, you know that there also are Euro teams that play with weak teams. In 2000, Lithuania almost beat team USA. A country of 3 million people. Shouldn't you be blowing teams out like that? And Lithuania never plays with their full squad. Only 2 NBA players, and Songaila isn't even that good. Ilgauskas last played for the national team in 1993. That means we haven't played with a full squad at least since then. For some reason, the NBA did send of their best players in 2002, 04 and 06. LeBron, Melo, and Wade were on 04 and 06 teams, and they are the faces of the NBA right? KG played in 2000, and as I mentioned, they were a shot away from losing. In 2002, USA was 6th in the world champs, and the team featured no superstars, but they should have still done much better, because they're NBA players and all stars, right? Same goes to 04 and 06. I watched most USA games in 2007 Americas, I was impressed, but also not convinced that they were good, because they faced no competition. Argentina had their scrubs, and Puerto Rico was dissapointing. I wish Canada had Nash, that would have been fun to watch. USA played like it was an all star game, throwing no look passes, alley oops and all that. That's fun to watch sure, but what will they do when they see defence? Spain should be the biggest problem, and then Lithuania and Argentina come next. USA has only Spain to compete with in the group, and hopefully they will get 2 top qualifiers there, like Croatia, Greece, Slovenia or Brazil. USA underestimates the world, likewise with the American citizens. They think the world is scared of them and that they are the best. Neither is true. I'm hoping for Lithuania, Spain and Argentina in the top 3 this year, hopefully in this order. Nobody wants to see the USA with medals, I hope they would get knocked out in the group stages, which is almost impossible, but then again, France didn't get out of their group in this years Euros. Never know what might happen.

It's always fun to hate on the teams that are on top isn't it? It's no different in any sport. People hate the Yankees, Red Sox, Patriots, Lakers, etc.

I've been saying all along that we haven't sent our best players. Not even close. No we didn't send our best players in 02, 04, and 06. Heck this years team still isn't the best players but it's better than what we've sent in the past. Euro teams get to practice together year round. Our team gets hardly any practice time. The Euro teams might lose one, maybe two people at worst. We are missing some major components. Lebron, Melo, and Wade weren't the faces of the NBA at the time. They were actually rookies trying to make a name for themselves. It seems to me that Argentina team that was so good was composed of a group of more veteran players that had been together a long time. Scola, Ginobli, Nocioni, Delfino, Hermann, and Oberto have all been effective NBA players. They were also the favorites to win. I would expect that group of players to beat some rookies who had a lot of learning to do. Besides it takes 5 to win not 3. Also, Argentina isn't in Europe and I don't think Italy would have beat the US in 04. The US team made up of rookies as their core players gave Argentina a much closer game than Italy did. The US did beat Lithuania in the bronze medal game and Lithuania is a good team and always has been, and also previously had beat the team. Wade, Lebron, and Melo's games have grown drastically since 04. I would expect a team whose core is a bunch of rookies and people with no experience in international play to lose a few games they shouldn't. We're going to be at a disadvantage with the rules. We don't play with those rules every day. Then throw in the fact they don't get to practice and sure it's going to make things more difficult.

The USA hasn't underestimated anybody. Sure the teams you mention are good. So is the US. Remember the team has changed again from 2007. Like I said before, only 6 of the players are from the 2006 team and only 8 are from 07. How many European teams have changed half of their roster?

Even with a team that lacks the greatest players in the NBA, having no practice, and different rules they are still one of the favorites. If they weren't you guys wouldn't be hating. You try to bring them down with words but in the end you have to admit they have a legit shot at winning the gold.... again.

By the way, here's a great article that came out today, since the draft is on Thursday. You might enjoy reading it.

http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1214282133146950.xml&coll=1

[b.jerk]

The national teams of fiba europe don't practice year round. Team USA is weak at the post with only Howard, Bosh and Boozer, it would only take one of them getting hurt or in foul trouble to be a disaster.

[dd24]

That's what I said. I know they wanted to put together a team that could play small ball since the international game relies so much on outside shooting, but it doesn't make sense to me that the only real center they put on the team is Howard. I guess Bosh could slide over and play there too but he's more of a PF. I think they are actually going to have Anthony play C at times. Coach K said he thinks he will have Kidd, Kobe, and Wade in the back court at times.

[berraco]

That's what I said. I know they wanted to put together a team that could play small ball since the international game relies so much on outside shooting, but it doesn't make sense to me that the only real center they put on the team is Howard. I guess Bosh could slide over and play there too but he's more of a PF. I think they are actually going to have Anthony play C at times. Coach K said he thinks he will have Kidd, Kobe, and Wade in the back court at times.

Greece destroyed them in the paint last WC's and now they insist with the same approach. Their bigs could be in foul trouble early in the games. Anthony at C? That has to be a mistake, maybe as PF but not at C.

Still, they have an impressive roster, let's see if they can play real team ball.

[simasu01]

Right, but names alone don't win games, except for 1992. In the article, I do see what they mean, and I think, mostly it is the mental toughness. When I play or watch basketball, I like speed and a wide spread court. When Americans play, the coaches always want you to post up, back down, box out. The difference in the game begins in 7th-8th grade levels, with Europe and most of the world keeping speed and a wide game, while Americans decide to hit the weight room and overpower their opponents, plus the mindset is already there. Compare Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Garnett. Both play the same position, are about the same height, but obviously play nothing like each other, mainly due to the place their from.
Like berraco says, Greece destroyed them in 2006, due to the lack of presence in the paint, something that was unexpected for the US back then. Now, they should have been ready. I don't see Greece as a threat this year, but other countries will be, mainly Spain with the Gasol brothers.

[dd24]

Exactly why I wish our best players would go. They still have a good shot though.

[berraco]

Right, but names alone don't win games, except for 1992. In the article, I do see what they mean, and I think, mostly it is the mental toughness. When I play or watch basketball, I like speed and a wide spread court. When Americans play, the coaches always want you to post up, back down, box out. The difference in the game begins in 7th-8th grade levels, with Europe and most of the world keeping speed and a wide game, while Americans decide to hit the weight room and overpower their opponents, plus the mindset is already there. Compare Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Garnett. Both play the same position, are about the same height, but obviously play nothing like each other, mainly due to the place their from.
Like berraco says, Greece destroyed them in 2006, due to the lack of presence in the paint, something that was unexpected for the US back then. Now, they should have been ready. I don't see Greece as a threat this year, but other countries will be, mainly Spain with the Gasol brothers.

Even then Greece was not really a threat in the paint (Spain shown that) but they still managed it. That's the big point. Now they should have learn a lot from that, so I expect a better team. And a better team defense (I can't remember Greece scoring 100 points in years but they did it against the US!).


Exactly why I wish our best players would go. They still have a good shot though.

Sure they have it. But now they have to demonstrate it.

[kaiteng]

I can see China trying to do ANYTHING possible to get themselves medals, bronze at least.

I hope China has better sportsmanship than Korea (the most corrupted big sport events host ever).

[berraco]

I can see China trying to do ANYTHING possible to get themselves medals, bronze at least.

I hope China has better sportsmanship than Korea (the most corrupted big sport events host ever).

Not in basketball. If they win a medal there, the Olympics will be totally shut down as a sportive competition. Some other sports, maybe, where there are judges that have the complete power to decide who wins. But not in basketball. But I don't even think they will do.

[la bomba]

Not in basketball. If they win a medal there, the Olympics will be totally shut down as a sportive competition. Some other sports, maybe, where there are judges that have the complete power to decide who wins. But not in basketball. But I don't even think they will do.
I agree there are about 7 teams that are far better teams than china.
I hope Greece and Slovenia qualify.

[la bomba]

[QUOTE=dd24] The Euro teams might lose one, maybe two people at worst.
Not true! Look at Serbia in the last eurobasket. Missing about 8 or more players.
Croatia were missing 3 or 4 important players too,Vujcic for example.Slovenia was also missing 3 or 4 players.

[simasu01]

[QUOTE=dd24] The Euro teams might lose one, maybe two people at worst.
Not true! Look at Serbia in the last eurobasket. Missing about 8 or more players.
Croatia were missing 3 or 4 important players too,Vujcic for example.Slovenia was also missing 3 or 4 players.

He needed to show a reason why the US lost. Lithuania is always missing Ilgauskas, and sometimes Macijauskas, plus a Lavrinovic brother this year. Same goes to the 3 countries above. Greece didn't have Schortsianitis. Really, there are important players missing everywhere, but they still prevail, except for Serbia, who played with probably the cockiest low achievers in their history, a total embarassment.

[dd24]

I already have. In my posts above I've named players and we've already discussed the whole sending NBA rookies thing. In 2004 we were missing more than 8.

[b.jerk]

All I want is a honest and gritty fight but team usa has to add another 7 footer immediately

[la bomba]

All I want is a honest and gritty fight but team usa has to add another 7 footer immediately
true,thats what we all want I suppose.I also agree with you that I believe USA are shooting themselves in the foot by not taking another big centre.doesn't even have to be great.

[dd24]

Agreed, I thought Brad Miller was adequate enough. Does anybody know why he didn't make the squad this year? A big guy who plays defense and can shoot outside and actually had a good year last year despite his age. Hmmm, seems like a no brainer to me. I'd really like to see some premier athletes step up. KG how about not being a complete jerk outside the court for once? Shaq, you're probably not going to win another championship, how about another medal? Duncan, how about going to an olympics where they put another 7' center on the team? I know it was tough on Duncan last time because he was the only one, but if there is more than one go!!!

Besides Spain with the Gasol brothers, what kind of size is the rest of Europe bringing to the games?

[b.jerk]

The US team could struggle with China because of Yao Ming and that post forward with the Nets and If the Greeks, Brazilians or the Litvaks qualify, team usa could struggle against them. It's a bad sign of either a defeatist attitude or incompetence.

[la bomba]

The US team could struggle with China because of Yao Ming and that post forward with the Nets and If the Greeks, Brazilians or the Litvaks qualify, team usa could struggle against them. It's a bad sign of either a defeatist attitude or incompetence.
maybe there is thought in the USA selection,maybe they think that the likes of shaq would not cope with defending the likes of bouroussis a 7ft centre who shoots the 3 real well.Or tsartsaris,ntikoudis, or other 4-5's that can shoot well.I don't know but maybe they wanted quicker more athletic defenders for these type of european inside players who actually dont play inside!However what they are maybe being shortsighted about is that in europe players are versatile and these shooting big men can actually play inside too.

[dd24]

maybe there is thought in the USA selection,maybe they think that the likes of shaq would not cope with defending the likes of bouroussis a 7ft centre who shoots the 3 real well.Or tsartsaris,ntikoudis, or other 4-5's that can shoot well.I don't know but maybe they wanted quicker more athletic defenders for these type of european inside players who actually dont play inside!However what they are maybe being shortsighted about is that in europe players are versatile and these shooting big men can actually play inside too.

That is the thought. They wanted quick athletic guys who could play the perimeter. They didn't completely forget about the inside game but certainly could have made it better. Sure with a guy like Shaq he wouldn't be able to be put in the game against the big men who play the perimeter. But a guy like KG could. I will say in the selection committee's defense, KG is a complete jerk off the court and just won't play. They did want him. Bosh is a legit big man who will end up playing center. He can match up with Pau while Dwight matches up with Marc. Dwight will also be able to match up with Yao while there are quite a few guys who can match up with Yi. Yao is a beast, but Yi still has some growing to do. He will be a very good power forward one day but not quite yet. China doesn't scare me too much anyhow. The problem is if any one of those guys got into foul trouble that could throw the whole game into a different perspective. What we saw in 04 was Duncan being the only big man and the refs calling some very questionable fouls against him making him sit the bench. That was a big part of the USA's losses. I guess it depends on what those countries have coming off their bench. I wish I could find rosters of all the countries who have qualified.

[b.jerk]

There are some big guys in the euroleague that are going to take it to hole and neither Chris Bosh or Dwight Howard are going to stop them. The game is shifting to europe and this is team USA's last best chance to win an international tournament and team usa maybe throwing it away because not enough big men.

[dd24]

Let's not make any over statements here. This is definately not the last chance for the US basketball team to win gold. They are going to bring right in the heat of things in 2012, 2016, etc. I will agree they didn't send their best big men. I'm the one who brought it up. There are also some good big men over seas. But if there was someone who is truly the greatest player in the world that is in the Euro league I can gaurantee there are teams in the NBA that would pay him more than twice what he makes over there after the exchange rate. It's a bit of an overstatement to say there are players in Europe that nobody in the world can stop. So there's a Michael Jordan in Europe that nobody in the world knows about?

[simasu01]

Honestly, it really might be one of USA's best last chances to win something, maybe the 2010 World Championship, but there doesn't seem to be a next LeBron, Carmelo, Dwight Howard, so the so called "domination era" might end with them, because none of the drafts since 2004, besides Howard, produced anyone that's really good. I guess you could say Chris Paul and Deron Williams, but they are team players, and will need to pass the ball to someone. The 2006 draft is a total dissapointment, I think Rajon Rondo is the best player from that draft, and again, he's a point guard. Greg Oden is still a mystery, Kevin Durant is still too inconsistent and too weak for the international game. From the guys drafted yesterday, I won't comment because I haven't seen much of any of them, except for Gallinari, who is Italian. The 2012 Olympics, LeBron will be in his late 20's, same with Melo. The core of the group will still be there, meaning LeBron, Melo, Wade, Bosh, Howard, Paul. But they will also need other players, which they look pretty weak on right now, with European and South American teams looking much stronger every year.
There isn't anyone unstopable, but due to the team game in Europe, there will be unknown players to the US scoring points, a la Schortsianitis in 2006.

[la bomba]

Let's not make any over statements here. This is definately not the last chance for the US basketball team to win gold. They are going to bring right in the heat of things in 2012, 2016, etc. I will agree they didn't send their best big men. I'm the one who brought it up. There are also some good big men over seas. But if there was someone who is truly the greatest player in the world that is in the Euro league I can gaurantee there are teams in the NBA that would pay him more than twice what he makes over there after the exchange rate. It's a bit of an overstatement to say there are players in Europe that nobody in the world can stop. So there's a Michael Jordan in Europe that nobody in the world knows about?
Oscar Schmidt never went to the NBA,More recently Bodiroga,who for me was one of the best players in the world.Actually still active I would say Papaloukas and Smodiz are both great players that could play in any NBA team,they are no Michael Jordans but they are sure better than a lot of nba starters.As for team USA's chances?It will never be their last chance,they will always be favourites,I insist on that,their pool of players will always be larger than any other nation's.Even though I firmly believe that other nations have great teams that could beat USA,they are still the team to beat.

[dd24]

In 2012:

Lebron - 27 years old
Camello - 28 years old
Chris Paul - 27 years old
Deron Williams - 28 years old
Kobe Bryant - 34 years old
Dwight Howard 27 years old
Chris Bosh - 28 years old
Tayshaun Prince 32 years old
Dwayne Wade - 30 years old
Michael Redd - 34 years old

Everybody I've listed except for Redd, Bryant, and Prince would be able to play in 2016 if they wanted to. That's seven guys that could remain the same up until 2016. Do you really think we aren't going to have another 5 world class basketball players in the NBA in the next 8 years? Get real. Right now we have Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Rodney Stuckey, Andrew Bynum, Michael Beasley, LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, Al Horford, and Joakim Noah all of which could be great players. That's just looking in the past couple years. Just on that list Bynum and Noah are legit centers. Durant will be an amazing player. He's tall, can create his own shot, and can shoot the lights out. He would tear up the international game. You have to remember the NBA game is more physical and is generally why Europeans don't make it in the NBA. The kid was 18 years old and put an NBA team on his back. There aren't too many people that have done that. Paul and Williams can both score and pass. I don't know why you would say different. Look at their teams stats. They were right at the top in scoring and obviously in the league for assists. They can create their own shots and penetrate as well. Did you forget the late 20's is when an athlete hits their prime?

Also as for the unknowns I don't believe there will be as many. The league now scouts Europe and the rest of the world much better than they did before. There have been so many draft busts they have been forced to. Does that mean that an unknown athlete can't step up and have 1 good game. No, but it will be more unlikely because the team will know every player on the roster. That factor which has helped Europe in the past isn't going to be such a help for them in the future.

[b.jerk]

This is team usa is the last best chance to win and team usa will never be as big as a favorite as they are for the next tournament

[dd24]

This is team usa is the last best chance to win and team usa will never be as big as a favorite as they are for the next tournament

I need more of a reason than that. How can you explain a team that has some of the best athletes and coaches in the world isn't going to be one of the favorites. I just posted over half of the athletes that could be on the 2012 roster and even some up and coming players. That's all besides the fact that in the next 4 years there is going to be even more talent in the NBA. It would be impossible to not find 5 more very good players. Even if it isn't the best the NBA has to offer (like it has been the past 4 years) they are still going to be one of the favorites. I'm not saying they will be the #1 favorite above all but they will be in the discussion of favorites every olympic.

[dd24]

Oscar Schmidt never went to the NBA,More recently Bodiroga,who for me was one of the best players in the world.Actually still active I would say Papaloukas and Smodiz are both great players that could play in any NBA team,they are no Michael Jordans but they are sure better than a lot of nba starters.As for team USA's chances?It will never be their last chance,they will always be favourites,I insist on that,their pool of players will always be larger than any other nation's.Even though I firmly believe that other nations have great teams that could beat USA,they are still the team to beat.

I agree with you. There are people over there who are talented and could be starters for most the teams in the NBA. Some of them might even be all-stars. But there isn't anybody in the world who could just score at will. There's only one person in the world who could go out and score 50 any night they want to and that is Kobe. Will he in the Olympics? Absolutely not. That isn't his role. He'll primarily be an outside shooter and a defensive stopper.

[b.jerk]

Team USA will always be one of the favorites in the near future but next tournament they won't be "the team" anymore. From the outside the american system is a wussier system than some of the european countries.

[dd24]

So even though the next team could be identical to the one this year with the exception of they will actually be better players then how can they be talked about as one of the favorite teams in 2008 and not 2012? Remember the core of the team will be in their prime in 2012. The system is irrelevant at that point. Same players, more experience, more knowledge, and in their prime and yet they are somehow going to go from the top to the bottom. There's still something missing here.

[b.jerk]

In the past euroleague competition couldn't prepare people for team usa but it's different now. The euroleague is getting better and better and in the future the better countries are going to see an elite level of competition throughout the season

[la bomba]

I agree with you. There are people over there who are talented and could be starters for most the teams in the NBA. Some of them might even be all-stars. But there isn't anybody in the world who could just score at will. There's only one person in the world who could go out and score 50 any night they want to and that is Kobe. Will he in the Olympics? Absolutely not. That isn't his role. He'll primarily be an outside shooter and a defensive stopper.
yes maybe now.But what I am saying is that it is not an exclusively nba thing,to get players who can score for fun.Oscar Schmidt ,even in the eyes of a lot of NBA commentators never played in the NBA and he could go out and score 50 points,60 if the team needed it!If not there are plenty of videos in youtube of him singlehandly destroying the US.Best scorer ever,full stop.

[dd24]

Oscar Schmidt was good but definately not the best scorer ever. The only US players he ever beat up on were college players. He definately could have came to the NBA, but his name would not be held with those of Jordan, Wilt, and Kobe among the greatest scorers of all time. The Nets actually took him with the 6th pick in the 84 draft but he didn't come to play in the NBA for a couple reasons. One was he didn't want to give up his title as an amateur so he could compete in the Olympics. The other was he didn't want to play only 10 minutes a game. He put up his numbers against amateur athletes. His great game against the US which was amateur players while he was an athlete in his prime.

He had his chance to play against the dream team in 1992. That was his chance to show he could compete with the best in the world. That is the best team that was ever assembled. If that team went today to the Olympics the results would be the same. The US beat Brazil 127-83. He had another chance in 96 but his team lost there too.

Also for those who don't like to see one person shoot the ball all the time and try to rip on someone like Kobe for shooting too much, Schmidt was really the only person on his team that ever shot the ball. Their game was to set screens and get Schmidt open so he could shoot the ball every time. I know he didn't have much of a team to play with, but think about that when you say things about Kobe. When he was shooting a lot he didn't have anybody else who could really score either.

Schmidt was good and without him we would never have this thread. He is the reason NBA players are playing in the Olympics and a big part of the world needing to play catch up in basketball as a result of that. The thing here is, he was from Brazil, which of course isn't in Europe. I thought we were talking about European players.

The best European player is Drazen Petrovic. He was quite possibly the best shooter in the NBA. Even Reggie Miller says the only player that could have had a better shot than him in his playing career was Petrovic. It seems like Petrovic scored 62 to Oscar's 44 at some point too.

I think Schmidt would have started in the NBA but he wouldn't have been an all-star.

[simasu01]

It absolutely won't be the last chance for team USA, the country is too big for that, but what we are trying to say is that their chances will be smaller and smaller every year, especially with the progress of Spain, Lithuania, and Serbia, even though they haven't been much recently, they have Milan Macvan, and are always a strong basketball country. It looks like Latvia is growing up also, together with Greece's new generation. Also, after this championship, the Lithuanian core will retire from the national team, players like Jasikevicius and Songaila won't play anymore, possibly Kaukenas and the Lavrinovic brothers. A new generation of players are expected to compete in Poland's Eurobasket.

[dd24]

If we are saying the world is catching up I can agree with that.

[simasu01]

About Schmid, we will never know what he Would have done in the NBA, but we know he Could have done, and that is be a really good player. Kobe gets ripped not only for being a selfish scorer, but also for his cockiness, his inability to win a thing without Shaq, except for MVP this season, which is basically worthless now, because a team won the championship, not Kobe, his mentality, which is me-first, team-second, and his rape trial, which was going to negatively change his reputation whatever way it ended. I know his life is under the microscope, but I don't think Oscar Schmidt would be anything like Kobe, except for making shots.

[dd24]

I don't really see anything cocky about Kobe. You have to be confident and he is definately that. Schmidt was the one who was me-first. He's the one that was quoted as saying some men can play the piano, some can only push it. I don't remember him ever making other players better. Like I said he played against the dream team and the team in 96 and the teams got killed. He didn't make anybody better then.

Kobe has made his teammates better. People think he is a ball hog because of one season where he was forced to shoot a lot. But you can see how efficient he was and how he made his teammates better even that year http://www.82games.com/pelton13.htm

Throughout the Lakers runs of championships Kobe and Shaq nearly took the same amount of shots per game. Is Shaq a ball hog now too? The funny thing with Kobe is people think he wasn't a ball hog this year and think he shared the ball so well and got teammates involved. Which he did do this, but he still shot more than he did in 03 and 04 when people were saying he was a ball hog. It's too much media that gets into peoples heads.

We can make a case for Schmidt being the greatest amateur of all-time but certainly not the greatest scorer. Like I said before Petrovic was better in the Euroleagues and there are a number of NBA players that could score just as well. Really Kobe and MJ shouldn't even be in the conversation when comparing against Schmidt. They are in a league of their own. You need to play against the best to be the best.

[la bomba]

I don't really see anything cocky about Kobe. You have to be confident and he is definately that. Schmidt was the one who was me-first. He's the one that was quoted as saying some men can play the piano, some can only push it. I don't remember him ever making other players better. Like I said he played against the dream team and the team in 96 and the teams got killed. He didn't make anybody better then.

Kobe has made his teammates better. People think he is a ball hog because of one season where he was forced to shoot a lot. But you can see how efficient he was and how he made his teammates better even that year http://www.82games.com/pelton13.htm

Throughout the Lakers runs of championships Kobe and Shaq nearly took the same amount of shots per game. Is Shaq a ball hog now too? The funny thing with Kobe is people think he wasn't a ball hog this year and think he shared the ball so well and got teammates involved. Which he did do this, but he still shot more than he did in 03 and 04 when people were saying he was a ball hog. It's too much media that gets into peoples heads.

We can make a case for Schmidt being the greatest amateur of all-time but certainly not the greatest scorer. Like I said before Petrovic was better in the Euroleagues and there are a number of NBA players that could score just as well. Really Kobe and MJ shouldn't even be in the conversation when comparing against Schmidt. They are in a league of their own. You need to play against the best to be the best.
First of all Schmidt was no ameteur!He was a professional player.He got paid very well in italy ,when the italian league was the best in europe.Yes he took a lot of shots but his percentages were higher than kobe's.Kobe shot as much as shaq?of coz,only shaq was two feet away from the basket most times dunking it,kobe was forcing a shot from 30ft!Kobe had 1 assist in his last nba finals game!! and endless misses and turnovers.he has teammates like odom,gasol,fisher etc who can score yet he takes 30 shots and berates his teammates for missing a shot!the guy is a **** I am sorry to say so but he is.Other players are confident and even cocky and you kind of accept it,but this guy is a prick and will never ever be considered in the same light as jordan,bird,magic etc etc
P.s. the euroleague didn't even exist when Petrovic played in europe.I know what you mean though.and yes Petrovic was the best player ever to come out of europe and a crying shame he departed this world in his prime when he was starting to set things alight in the NBA,after having been wasted by Portland(Rudy what have you done?)Perhaps Sabonis is on a par with petrovic as greatest ever,he went to the nba with his feet riddled with injury at age 31 yet triumphed and played 6 or 7 seasons with,,mm that same team.

[dd24]

Kobe's the best player in the world right now. It shouldn't even be a debate. Anybody who thinks less doesn't understand the game of basketball or is just one of those people who are jealous and likes to hate people that are great at what they do. People hated Jordan and now love him. People hate the Yankees in baseball, they now hate the Patriots in football, etc. I respect someone who is the best, even if they aren't on my team.

[berraco]

Changing the topic for now, what happens to Dwight Howard? Is he really injured? I read something about stress fracture? Will he miss the Olympics?

[dd24]

I was going to make the same reply. I just saw this tonight.

I really don't have any answers at this point. All I know is the one legit center team USA had isn't going to be 100%. I made comments about him getting into foul trouble earlier but I never imagined this. Team USA has Bosh right now who could play a little center, but other than that their next biggest guy is Boozer who is only 6'9".

I guess this is the tough part about the Olympics for the USA. There is so much pressure for teams to win an NBA championship, the guys don't want to go out and win a gold medal for their country. This is the one thing we haven't discussed yet but is probably the one biggest issue in the US compared to Europe. Europeans want to win the gold not matter what. To them that is the greatest achievement. In America the greatest achievement is winning an NBA title. So some of our best player opt out and decide not to play. I wish they would have a little patriotism and just play. If we had other big guys this wouldn't even be an issue. I realize that this isn't just Americans. I know that there are international players whose teams don't want them to play in the Olympics for fear of their health. Nonetheless it hurts us more than anybody. It's only a player for most teams while it's 3 to 5 for us.

Personally, I love the Olympics, and not just basketball. This is the one time of the year I will watch all sports like track & field, diving, rowing, etc. Since basketball is one of my passions I would love for the US to be able to put out their best players to represent their country. Unfortunately, I don't know if it can happen again. This doesn't mean they won't be competitive. It just means there will never be another dream team. You guys know I am the one american who has kept this thread going, so you know I am passionate about the Olympics and how team USA fares. I wish we could get that enthusiasm spread across the US. For a lack of a better term, no matter who has the correct opinion, you can see that a gold medal means more to Europe than it does the US just based on the discussion in this thread.

In all fairness, if I could have my team win a championship instead of a gold medal I would. But the margin is slim. It's 51% to 49%. Personally, I don't like to set my goals to just attaining one thing. That would be too low for me. I would set my goals to win an NBA championship and a gold medal. Why limit ourselves with goals, right? I guess the rest of the US doesn't feel that way. I'll try to keep the discussion going as much as I can but in the end I am only one man doing this. You obviously have the numbers and at this point in time it looks like team USA just doesn't care. It's very discouraging for me.

[b.jerk]

To me it's a sign of defeatism for team USA to include only one center, it's almost as if team usa on purpose created an excuse to lose. What is Carlos Boozer's real height 6' 5", he isn't tall enough to be the backup center. Team USA should give themselves the best opportunity to win and get someone that can rebound, play some defense and can give 5 fouls even if it's Eric Dampier, offense isn't a concern for a team with Bryant and James.

[R.I.P.]

Let's be serious.

Spain would destroy Chinese team.
Argentina would destroy Chinese team.
USA would destroy Chinese team.
Lithuania would destroy Chinese team.
Greece would win Chinese team.
France would win Chinese team.
Italy would win Chinese team.
Germany would win Chinese team.
Brazil would win chinese team.
etc...

Chinese would be good when they get 10 NBA players... but not now.

Exactly. China sucks, not even Stern and the most corrupt NBA refs could work that miracle.

[simasu01]

The percentages of winning a title with your country rather than you club should 100% to 0%. Unless you are playing for a foreign country, that's Holden in Russia, Whitfield for the Czechs, and so on. That really is the problem with USA basketball and that might be one of the major things from them being dominant again. Shaq, KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Gilbert Arenas, Jermaine O'Neal, and so many players refusing to play, especially big men, and it isn't true that most countries are missing only one player, usually it's more, as I mentioned Lithuania earlier missing at least 3, Greece will be missing a few, Serbia was missing the whole team, there are plenty of countries that could have excuses about missing people, but don't.

b.jerk's statement was strong, and I agree with it. Dwight Howard, the only one who can play center, and now he has a stress fracture. One of my friends had it before, and he wasn't allowed to do anything on his legs besides walking or running. He couldn't jump high anymore, but he recovered after about 3 or 4 months, because he wasn't taking care of it properly. The proper way to care for it is rest it and ice it for about 5 weeks. I don't think Howard can or will do that. Then the US line up would look like this: Kidd/Paul, Kobe, LeBron, Carmelo, and Bosh. It looks like an all star lineup, but it won't win international games, sorry. And if they decided to take out Carmelo or Bosh for Wade, God help you.

[dd24]

I agree people should want to represent their country more. It's unfortunate, but they don't. The guys who are the best players get paid too much money. They are making 15 to 20 million dollars per year. They don't want to risk injury at the Olympics. They don't purposely create an excuse to lose. The mind set is different here. To those players an NBA championship is considered much more elite than a gold medal. To be honest, it probably is more difficult for a single person on that team to win an NBA championship rather than all of them winning a gold medal. You say that countries are missing a couple players. I agree some are. Some of them because they have players in the NBA. But you contradict yourself with the huge list of players from the NBA. We aren't just missing one or two players. If we changed out 5 of those guys we would nearly be a lock for the gold. But it all goes back to the fact that these guys make too much money in the NBA and covet that championship more.

Like I said before, if more americans cared about USA basketball, there would be more than just me posting. I've even asked others to post. Nobody cares. It's tough to swallow, but I guess for now all people care about is the NBA. I think it has something to do with how the USA is such a melting pot for cultures. We have so many people here who are immigrants that it has somewhat killed the patriotism. Since a lot of people in the States aren't American they don't care about team USA. I don't mean that to sound as bad as it might come off, but I really don't know any other way to word it. Hopefully team USA can make some last minute additions and toughen up the lineup.

[la bomba]

Kobe's the best player in the world right now. It shouldn't even be a debate. Anybody who thinks less doesn't understand the game of basketball or is just one of those people who are jealous and likes to hate people that are great at what they do. People hated Jordan and now love him. People hate the Yankees in baseball, they now hate the Patriots in football, etc. I respect someone who is the best, even if they aren't on my team.
This will be my last entry on this thread as I obviously know nothing about basketball,I dont hate the greats,I like federer and nadal at tennis,I even liked that german c*** schumacher at F1 but Kobe is a prick of almighty proportions that does not make his teammates batter.my opinion,thats all,one that clearly shows I know nothing about basketball,but its mine and i maintain it.As for the baseball and american football I wont comment cause i know nothing about the yankees or the patriots.As for the NBA being more important than playing for your country,that is obvious I mean come on they call themselves world champions???arrogance or ignorance??both?what do I know?

[b.jerk]

Kobe Bryant maybe a prick but practically everyone's a prick at the top of any professional and the same goes for the euroleague. At least Bryant has talent, nothing pisses me off more than a Ryan Leif.

[simasu01]

Never heard of Ryan Leif. What I do know is Kobe has so many reasons to be hated, he is a prick, to quote la bomba. Obviously there are the Olympics, the World Championship, and ANOTHER World Championship??? That would the NBA, or National Basketball Association. Meaning of the American nation, plus Toronto. England had the first league of football, real football. So did Manchester United crown themselves world champions after winning the league? No, not even after they won the Champions League. This is just a comparison of how low the level of appreciation for international things in the US is. Spain won the European Football championship today, but for some reason nobody crowned them as the World Champions. Why not? For the same reason that the NBA shouldn't crown any of its champions World Champions. It's just degrading their own country. KG was yelling TOP OF THE WORLD!!! No buddy, there still are the Olympics and the World Championship, and if he was European, the Euro Championships, which is probably the hardest thing to win for a basketball player.

[la bomba]

Never heard of Ryan Leif. What I do know is Kobe has so many reasons to be hated, he is a prick, to quote la bomba. Obviously there are the Olympics, the World Championship, and ANOTHER World Championship??? That would the NBA, or National Basketball Association. Meaning of the American nation, plus Toronto. England had the first league of football, real football. So did Manchester United crown themselves world champions after winning the league? No, not even after they won the Champions League. This is just a comparison of how low the level of appreciation for international things in the US is. Spain won the European Football championship today, but for some reason nobody crowned them as the World Champions. Why not? For the same reason that the NBA shouldn't crown any of its champions World Champions. It's just degrading their own country. KG was yelling TOP OF THE WORLD!!! No buddy, there still are the Olympics and the World Championship, and if he was European, the Euro Championships, which is probably the hardest thing to win for a basketball player.I'll come out of retirement to say .Amen to that.

[dd24]

Actually, over here Spain are the world champions.

[b.jerk]

Yeah but those evil capitalist russians won the eurobasket and the euroleague

[dd24]

I'm staying out of that one, but this post keeps getting better and better :oldlol:

[Mo_Williams]

Cheaters are not allowed in the Olympics, and I don't think China is capable of beating Team USA and Argentina in the Semifinals Round.

[la bomba]

Cheaters are not allowed in the Olympics, and I don't think China is capable of beating Team USA and Argentina in the Semifinals Round.
China will get beaten by Lithuania.I'll be suprised if they get to the semis.having said that they have played better than i thought was possible.credit to their coach,ironically a Lithuanian.

[simasu01]

China will get beaten by Lithuania.I'll be suprised if they get to the semis.having said that they have played better than i thought was possible.credit to their coach,ironically a Lithuanian.
I hope you are right, one thing I hope for is that Jonas Kazlauskas isn't a second version of Guus Hidink, where he guided russia past Holland into the Euro football semis, therefore he's considered a traitor in the Netherlands. This is the same exact set up, quarterfinals, a coach facing his home nation, it better not end the same way, but just like Holland is much stronger than russia at any time, Lithuania is stronger than China. However, looking at results, it doesn't work. But we did beat China in the last Olympics at this same exact stage. Ironically, Argentina and Greece are facing each other again on the other side of the bracket. Only Australia and Croatia are the 2 new teams to make it to the next round in these Olympics. Hopefully, we'll see a bit of a different ending, with Lithuania looking like it has a easier path than ever to the finals. Our side of the bracket is much weaker than USA's, but I don't expect to see another blowout, not even from USA. Unfortunately, they played Australia already, so they know what they are in for, but USA didn't meet Bogut yet, everyone will have difficulties guarding him. Patrick Mills and CJ Bruton don't look to be as dominant though, I see Aussie veterans like Nielsen and Andersen stepping up, in other words, I can't wait to see these games, unfortunately all are at night here, starting at 2:30 going until around noon, when the last game should be over by. What do you people predict? I see, in order of appearance: Spain beats Croatia, not by more than 10 points, Lithuania beats China, not too comfortable, around 10-15 points, USA beats Australia, around 15 points after a long game, and Argentina barely beats Greece, 1-3 points.

[kaiteng]

Cheaters are not allowed in the Olympics.

I happened already in past Olympics. In Seoul, Roy Jones Jr. decimated Korean opponent in the final, landing 85 punches to Korean guy's 32, but lost by decisions. IOC later found out that Korean officials rigged it, but the decision stands.

I should better be positive on China until something happens though.

Being in bronze medal game would be considered a huge success for Team China IMO.