Will you go to hell for fornication?

[Ron Mexico]

Discuss.

[B-Low]

Yes. Which means hell will be full of all the attractive people. Which means i want to be in hell. Which means I shall fornicate often.

[catzhernandez]

I don't beleive in hell. Soooooo, hell yeah!

[Ron Mexico]

Yes. Which means hell will be full of all the attractive people. Which means i want to be in hell. Which means I shall fornicate often.

:applause:

[i seen hippos]

I piss on the devil.

[v-unit]

I braided my pubes.

[hito da god]

You call it hell but bruh, I just say I'm below the heavens

[Doomsday Dallas]

I piss on the devil.

Big Mistake... Don't ever underestimate the power of the Devil.

without God... You will lose.

[wTFaMonkey]

Yes. Which means hell will be full of all the attractive people. Which means i want to be in hell. Which means I shall fornicate often.
LOL

never thought of that

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[-primetime-]

yeah...

God might chase you around with a Bic lighter under your ass for a couple days...

[Chalkmaze]

no, but you go to hell for threads like this.

[G-train]

of course you go to hell for sex with baby deers

[ALBballer]

I misread the title of the thread as:

"Where in the hell do you go for fornication?"

I was hoping to find some good answers, yet again ISH disappoints me.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Yes, fornication is very serious. But all sins are equally bad in God's eyes. You can say, "well very body is having sex so I can too"........okay, if you want to follow everyone else to hell then go for it. Its your life.

[-primetime-]

Yes, fornication is very serious. But all sins are equally bad in God's eyes. You can say, "well very body is having sex so I can too"........okay, if you want to follow everyone else to hell then go for it. Its your life.
:rolleyes:

if this were actually true then God is not playing very fair...

he created something in me called "hormones" that make me want to do naughty things to girls...those "hormones" he created are also the only reason that humans and animals reproduce...

but enough of this crazy "science" talk already....we are all going to hell and heaven is going to be a very loney place...

way to go God!....thanks alot for creating me and tricking me into burning in hell for an eternity.....you're a really swell guy :applause:

[SuperboyXX0018]

if this were actually true then God is not playing very fair...

he created something in me called "hormones" that make me want to do naughty things to girls...those "hormones" he created are also the only reason that humans and animals reproduce...


You have something called SELF CONTROL! There is no excuse. God said get married.



way to go God!....thanks alot for creating me and tricking me into burning in hell for an eternity.....you're a really swell guy :applause:

You have a choice, either accept Jesus Christ now in this life or reject him and go to Hell for eternity. Its your choice. If you reject Christ that only means you would rather live for the temporal pleasures of this world and want nothing to do with God. You can choose that, but you are also choosing to go to hell.

[-primetime-]

You have something called SELF CONTROL! There is no excuse. God said get married.

he forgot to tell me that...I never knew

not fair :ohwell:

[-primetime-]

You have something called SELF CONTROL! There is no excuse. God said get married.

btw...is just "thinking" about sex a sin???

if so then I have no self control about that....it is impossible



why did he have to invent those damn hormones :banghead:

[v-unit]

God can't expect for people to grow up not knowing anything about him, then easily be convinced that he is real and everything about him said is true. God isn't dumb. I believe there is a God, but he's not this Jesus Christ and whatever, God is this person that created all of us, planets, but also created all of the other planets and solar systems. I believe he moderatly watches every world and doesn't have rules set up, he just watches as his creations create their own life.

[v-unit]

^^ Primetime is right, anyway, you can't expect god to create hormones and not want anyone to act on them. It's like giving us eyes but saying, "IF YOU DARE LOOK AT ANYTHING AND SEE, YOU WILL GO TO HELL, WORSHIP ME"

[The Answer]

God said get married.


Did you hear him say this, or did you just read this somewhere? Let me guess: the Bible says so, and you know the Bible's true because it says so.



You have a choice, either accept Jesus Christ now in this life or reject him and go to Hell for eternity. Its your choice. If you reject Christ that only means you would rather live for the temporal pleasures of this world and want nothing to do with God. You can choose that, but you are also choosing to go to hell.

The concept of Hell is illogical. How can such a place exist in a world governed by an omnipotent, omnibenevolent ruler? It just doesn't make any sense at all. Are you telling me our finite "crimes" warrant an infinite punishment? And not just any punishment, but eternal damnation in a lake of fire? Nobody, regardless of what they've done, deserves that.

[SuperboyXX0018]

btw...is just "thinking" about sex a sin???

if so then I have no self control about that....it is impossible



why did he have to invent those damn hormones :banghead:



Yes thinking about evil thoughts purposefully is a sin. That is one of the reasons the Bible said renew your mind, and reading the Bible is a step. You can block sexual thoughts out of your mind if you focus on it.

[Take Your Lumps]

You have something called SELF CONTROL! There is no excuse. God said get married.

Oh, so now we all have self control.

But when it comes to a "disease" like alcoholism, you religious freaks are all about sentencing people to the religious institution that is the 12-step AA program -- where people are told they have no self control and must give it up to a higher power.

Make up your mind, you can't have it both ways.

[-primetime-]

The concept of Hell is illogical. How can such a place exist in a world governed by an omnipotent, omnibenevolent ruler? It just doesn't make any sense at all. Are you telling me our finite "crimes" warrant an inifinite punishment? And not just any punishment, but eternal damnation in a lake of fire. Nobody, regardless of what they've done, deserves that.
agreed...

as crazy and evil as Hitler was...in his mind he thought he was doing the right thing....he thought he was doing what god wanted him to do...

and as sick and twisted as Charles Manson was...he grew up watching his mother have sex right in front of him with different men....his head was screwed from the begining...he was literally just "sick".


we are all just human...and none of us deserves to burn for an eternity....I do not believe in the concept of "Hell"....

[v-unit]

And what about all your damn priests touching children?

[-primetime-]

Yes thinking about evil thoughts purposefully is a sin. That is one of the reasons the Bible said renew your mind, and reading the Bible is a step. You can block sexual thoughts out of your mind if you focus on it.
no you can't...

hormones make that impossible...we all think about sex....we all (straight men) take notice when we see a girl showing off her cleavage...it is in our nature....it is something you can not help....

and wouldn't "focusing on it" be thinking about it anyway :confusedshrug:

[SuperboyXX0018]

Did you hear him say this, or did you just read this somewhere? Let me guess: the Bible says so, and you know the Bible's true because it says so.

Yes the Bible said it. The Bible is the inspired word of God.



The concept of Hell is illogical. How can such a place exist in a world governed by an omnipotent, omnibenevolent ruler? It just doesn't make any sense at all. Are you telling me our finite "crimes" warrant an infinite punishment? And not just any punishment, but eternal damnation in a lake of fire. Nobody, regardless of what they've done, deserves that.


Hell is a real place and its in the heart of the Earth. Hell is for all those who choose to do evil and reject Jesus Christ(you can't come to God without accepting Jesus Christ). Hell is spiritual death, if you die in your sins(by not accepting Jesus) you have to go to hell and pay for your sins forever.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Oh, so now we all have self control.

But when it comes to a "disease" like alcoholism, you religious freaks are all about sentencing people to the religious institution that is the 12-step AA program -- where people are told they have no self control and must give it up to a higher power.

Make up your mind, you can't have it both ways.

I'm not talking about religion, I don't know what you are talking about.

[DatZNasty]

No, you just decomposing in the ground

[The Answer]

agreed...

as crazy and evil as Hitler was...in his mind he thought he was doing the right thing....he thought he was doing what god wanted him to do...

and as sick and twisted as Charles Manson was...he grew up watching his mother have sex right in front of him with different men....his head was screwed from the begining...he was literally just "sick".


we are all just human...and none of us deserves to burn for an eternity....I do not believe in the concept of "Hell"....

I agree. There's undoubtedly been some sick people throughout history: Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Pol Pot, Osama bin Laden, etc. None of them, however, did enough to warrant eternal damnation in a lake of fire.

[SuperboyXX0018]

agreed...

as crazy and evil as Hitler was...in his mind he thought he was doing the right thing....he thought he was doing what god wanted him to do...

and as sick and twisted as Charles Manson was...he grew up watching his mother have sex right in front of him with different men....his head was screwed from the begining...he was literally just "sick".


we are all just human...and none of us deserves to burn for an eternity....I do not believe in the concept of "Hell"....



Its not about deserving, its about rejecting Christ as your Lord and Savior.

[v-unit]

This dude is the equivalent to BULLS, you can't win an arguement with them, they just settle in being a draw or having the last word, they won't quit. Crazy religious freaks.

[mavsfan4zindagi]

Its not about deserving, its about rejecting Christ as your Lord and Savior.

:roll:

Why is it so important to God that we accept something thats true regardless of us accepting it or not? I mean if he's really our Lord and savior then why is it such a big deal whether we believe that or not?

Seems to me that God/Jesus have ego issues if they're going to be banishing us to hell for not believing in their greatness/divinity.

If he really loved us, then shouldn't he forgive our "foolishness" and spare us eternal torture?

[SuperboyXX0018]

no you can't...

hormones make that impossible...we all think about sex....we all (straight men) take notice when we see a girl showing off her cleavage...it is in our nature....it is something you can not help....

and wouldn't "focusing on it" be thinking about it anyway :confusedshrug:


Yes you can, you can control it you just have to make the decision. And if your not for God than you stand no chance of doing it.

[v-unit]

Yes you can, you can control it you just have to make the decision. And if your for God than you stand no chance of doing it.

Have you controlled your hormones your whole life? Have you focused on the bible every secound and not acted on your desires for fear of burning in hell for infinite? If so, will you continue that for the rest of your life, not have sex and reproduce, and die, alone, with no friends?

[SuperboyXX0018]

:roll:

Why is it so important to God that we accept something thats true regardless of us accepting it or not? I mean if he's really our Lord and savior then why is it such a big deal whether we believe that or not?

Seems to me that God/Jesus have ego issues if they're going to be banishing us to hell for not believing in their greatness/divinity.

If he really loved us, then shouldn't he forgive our "foolishness" and spare us eternal torture?


Yes, but you have to make the decision, humble yourself and repent. You non-believers seriously lack knowledge in Christianity(no shocker) you should read the Bible(if you care).

[-primetime-]

Its not about deserving, its about rejecting Christ as your Lord and Savior.
a God that sends undeserving people to burn for an eternity is a very bad god imo....

what about people that have never heard of the Bible or Christ in other countries???

what about children that die at the age of 3???

what about people born with a mental disorder???

do they all burn forever???



did you know that there are more people on this planet that know who Mickey Mouse is than Jesus Christ????

[SuperboyXX0018]

Have you controlled your hormones your whole life? Have you focused on the bible every secound and not acted on your desires for fear of burning in hell for infinite? If so, will you continue that for the rest of your life, not have sex and reproduce, and die, alone, with no friends?


You're totally lost. You should read the Bible and find websites(if you care).

[SuperboyXX0018]

a God that sends undeserving people to burn for an eternity is a very bad god imo....

what about people that have never heard of the Bible or Christ in other countries???

what about children that die at the age of 3???

what about people born with a mental disorder???

do they all burn forever???



did you know that there are more people on this planet that know who Mickey Mouse is than Jesus Christ????


By rejecting God you reject his gifts, which is what hell is, its the absent of all that is good. And children don't go to hell they go to Heaven.

[-primetime-]

Yes you can, you can control it you just have to make the decision. And if your not for God than you stand no chance of doing it.
they are hormones dude!!!!

I can't just remove them...(unless I cut my sack off and that is not gonna happen)

like mentioned earlier, that is like telling me I am not allowed to use my eye balls to look at things....

[boozehound]

You're totally lost. You should read the Bible and find websites(if you care).
yeah websites are a good source. :rolleyes: Try some actual theology
heres an example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5YrB7TpT1Y)

[v-unit]

You're totally lost. You should read the Bible and find websites(if you care).

I would say that's a very nice answer if I were grading your arguement because you completly ignored what I said. You didn't answer any of my questions, and you obviously have no answer because you are trying to prove that I am uneducated and need the bible to become knowledgable.

[The Answer]

Superboy, if our world truly is governed by the omnipotent, omnibenevolent YHWH, how do you explain the existence of evil and suffering in the world?

[SuperboyXX0018]

they are hormones dude!!!!

I can't just remove them...(unless I cut my sack off and that is not gonna happen)

like mentioned earlier, that is like telling me I am not allowed to use my eye balls to look at things....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry-tXrvy3Jw


God can help you!!!!!!!!!!

[ryantheporchkid]

I find that purgatory is more likely than being damned eternally to hell.

[-primetime-]

Yes, but you have to make the decision, humble yourself and repent. You non-believers seriously lack knowledge in Christianity(no shocker) you should read the Bible(if you care).
It isn't a lack of knowledge...

I grew up a Christian....

then one day I developed what is known as "common sense"...

[v-unit]

they are hormones dude!!!!

I can't just remove them...(unless I cut my sack off and that is not gonna happen)

like mentioned earlier, that is like telling me I am not allowed to use my eye balls to look at things....

Thank you...

And children go to heaven. Ok. So God creates this plan and just makes a checklist. "People that get a freepass to heaven: Children, people with no chance of learning of God, and the Jonhsons"

That's completly rediculous, Jesus knew Judas would betray him, so can't he tell if some children would grow to be evil? They still go to heaven? Or do they rot in eternel torture as well?

[DatZNasty]

You should read the Bible superboy? What about all the confusing verses saying stuff like if you rape a girl, you have to marry her? Or just the overall hypocrisy in the judgemental nature of Christians despite the many verses pointing out not to? Christians are no better than "wordly" people. They just like to be pretentious *******s about everything and pretend like they are, despite the fact they sin as much as the next man. Call them on it though and if they do respond, they'll just tell you it's OK because they pray nightly and spend 2hrs a week at Church.

What about gluttony as a deadly sin Superboy? Why don't they ever preach that sermon at Church? It couldn't be because they only preach what is convenient to them could it? It obviously wouldn't be a popular sermon to tell people they are sinning for being fat, or overly rich, or owning anything in excess.

But they'll preach the hell out of Malachai 3:8, so you can give 10% of your hard earned money "to the church," so pastor can push a Cadillac Coupe De Ville and rock the freshest Italian imported suits every Sunday.

What about somebody like Malcolm X or Ghandi? Neither were Christians but both obviously had a positive impact on the world. Do they go Heaven or burn in hell? Does God totally overlook what they did in their lifetime because of the fact they worshipped somebody other than him?

[SHEED_ gangsta]

Yes thinking about evil thoughts purposefully is a sin. That is one of the reasons the Bible said renew your mind, and reading the Bible is a step. You can block sexual thoughts out of your mind if you focus on it.

who the hell would want to do that!!!!

[SuperboyXX0018]

Superboy, if our world truly is governed by the omnipotent, omnibenevolent YHWH, how do you explain the existence of evil and suffering in the world?


This world is the way it is because of the evil of mankind. It is our sin that causes destruction. God is holy and cannot dwell with sin(that is why we can't see him!), he sent Jesus Christ(himself in the flesh) to die for our sins because the wages of sin is death, and we can't pay that because that would mean doing to hell for eternity. That is why you must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. No matter how many times you sinned, they will be forgiving because Jesus payed for them.

[v-unit]

This is the part where they don't answer and leave the conversation...

[v-unit]

Superboy, your going to look back at your life and say "****, a bunch of dirty Romans thousands of years ago tricked me into controlling my life!"

Sorry if you continue this way.

[DatZNasty]

Or say something totally vague and meaningless like "The Lord works in mysterious ways."

[SuperboyXX0018]

Man, you guys are totally lost. Why don't you actually read and study the Bible before you ask stupid questions. I am not going to waste time.

[The Answer]

a God that sends undeserving people to burn for an eternity is a very bad god imo....

what about people that have never heard of the Bible or Christ in other countries???

what about children that die at the age of 3???

what about people born with a mental disorder???

do they all burn forever???



did you know that there are more people on this planet that know who Mickey Mouse is than Jesus Christ????

You bring up a good point, PT. A point I'd like to expand upon. If YHWH is real, the spiritual system which determines whether or not one goes to Heaven or Hell is fair (this conclusion is based on YHWH's omnipotence/omnibenevolence; it's innerant and thus cannot be reasonably argued against). However, it is clear to any intelligent observer the spiritual system which governs Christianity is not fair (atleast the branch Superboy adheres to). Some people are obviously far more likely to be Christians, and thus go to Heaven, than others. Children born into Christian families, for example, have a far greater opportunity to attain salvation than their counterparts from non-Christian families. Outside of Christian countries, the disparity becomes even greater. A child born in India or Saudi Arabia has almost no chance to "find" Christ. One thing is clear: the god Superboy advocates and the spiritual system he believes in are logically incompatable with one another.

[Take Your Lumps]

And children don't go to hell they go to Heaven.

What about the first-born sons of Egypt "God" killed?

Where did they go?

[v-unit]

This is the part where they don't answer and leave the conversation...


Or say something totally vague and meaningless like "The Lord works in mysterious ways."


Man, you guys are totally lost. Why don't you actually read and study the Bible before you ask stupid questions. I am not going to waste time.

Well, what do you know, we were right...

[The Answer]

Man, you guys are totally lost. Why don't you actually read and study the Bible before you ask stupid questions. I am not going to waste time.

Absolutely hilarious. Here we have someone who genuinely believes all non-Christians will burn in a ****ing lake of fire for all eternity, yet he's "wasting his time" trying to save us. Dude, if I honestly believed that, I'd be doing absolutely everything in my power to "save" everyone. Know why? Because I care about humanity. Evidently you don't.

[SuperboyXX0018]

http://www.divinerevelations.info/


http://www.raptureready.com/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4WQpfCWADY&feature=PlayList&p=CC903629E8F63361&index=10


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5eUIj7DxHo&feature=related


http://www.arkdiscovery.com/


http://www.youtube.com/user/cccinfo

[-primetime-]

Man, you guys are totally lost. Why don't you actually read and study the Bible before you ask stupid questions. I am not going to waste time.
Is calling us stupid a sin???

[-primetime-]

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/

you really believe that every species of insect/mammal/bird/fish/ect. that exists on this planet today came off of Noah's Ark??? That he collected 2 of every animal and they all mated and went on to thier countries of orgin from there???

do you have any idea how impossible that is????



go outside and collect 2 crickets....lets see if you can get them to mate and create a new colony of crickets...

after you have achieved that...try to imagine doing that with millions of different species of animals...


when zoos are able to get animals to mate it makes the news because it is so hard....yet somehow Noah was able to do it with EVERY CREATURE THERE IS!!??!!?!?!

come on now.....think about it for a second

[SuperboyXX0018]

you really believe that every species of insect/mammal/bird/fish/ect. that exists on this planet today came off of Noah's Ark??? That he collected 2 of every animal and they all mated and went on to thier countries of orgin from there???

do you have any idea how impossible that is????



go outside and collect 2 crickets....lets see if you can get them to mate and create a new colony of crickets...

after you have achieved that...try to imagine doing that with millions of different species of animals...


when zoos are able to get animals to mate it makes the news because it is so hard....yet somehow Noah was able to do it with EVERY CREATURE THERE IS!!??!!?!?!

come on now.....think about it for a second


The Earth was different back then, and nobody knows about all of that, but the event did take place. No point of thinking about it now though.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Listen I don't have the energy to battle of all you now, that is why I provided the links. If you want to know about the true purpose of life, and why things are the why they are, and whats going to happen eventually, check the links.

[-primetime-]

The Earth was different back then
how so?

No point of thinking about it now though.
why not?

if it is proven to be a fairy tale then you have to question every story in the bible...

[G-train]

The heart of Christianity is about faith, and not reasoning.

You can choose to believe that there is a God and to follow his teachings, or you can choose the teachings of man kind.
If you choose the God of Christianity, his ways would be above human thinking, as he claims to be all knowing.

So Superboy, if you believe that others should choose God, do not reason. It is not an act of reasoning. it is an act of faith. The God of the bible would have reasoning above the human intellect.

It is something one has to experience for himself. To use facts and figures is helpful if someone wants to know more of the God of Christianity, but it is by no way a good basis to share what you believe to be the truth.

If people live completely by reason, that is the beauty of free choice, which we westerners seem to take for granted (I know I do).

Either decision is a respectable one IMO.

[DatZNasty]

Listen I don't have the energy to battle of all you now, that is why I provided the links. If you want to know about the true purpose of life, and why things are the why they are, and whats going to happen eventually, check the links.
ask God for the energy

[SourGrapes]

i think what some people dont get is this:

if you are in heaven for eternity, it is just as bad as hell. anything for eternity is hellish.

[-primetime-]

i think what some people dont get is this:

if you are in heaven for eternity, it is just as bad as hell. anything for eternity is hellish.
I agree

that is why I like to believe we spend an eternity living out every life that has ever existed on this planet....and others

that way, everytime you do something bad to someone you are really doing it to yourself....and everytime you help someone out or act nice you are helping out yourself....


what else are you going to do with an eternity???



of course...there is that whole concept of "time"....which really makes the word "eternity" difficult to think about...

maybe "time" is different in the after life...maybe when you die it will only have been 3 seconds after your great great grandfather died....


and then there is the male/female issue....are we all the same sex in the after life???

and smarts....are we all suddenly all-knowing????...are retarded humans suddenly smart when they die???


too much to think about

[Doomsday Dallas]

i think what some people dont get is this:

if you are in heaven for eternity, it is just as bad as hell. anything for eternity is hellish.

:roll:

Maybe the dumbest post in the history of ISH.

God will be your friend... it just takes an eternity for him to do that.

anything in this world for eternity is hellish... you're right about that.

Buut you can't even begin to comprehend the pleasures of heaven.

[The Answer]

Either decision is a respectable one IMO.

So, if I live my life with faith that one day Martians are going to fly down here and take me back to their world, where I'll be made emperor, that's just as respectable as living a life based on reason, right?

[-primetime-]

Buut you can't even begin to comprehend the pleasures of heaven.
but you can???

from my experiences here on earth...the things that are "pleasures" are considered a sin in the bible...

is Heaven an eternity of orgies with hot chicks????...that is way too much sin....and lets face it....eventuallly you would get tired of it and want to do something else...something sinful...

[SourGrapes]

:roll:

Maybe the dumbest post in the history of ISH.

God will be your friend... it just takes an eternity for him to do that.

anything in this world for eternity is hellish... you're right about that.

Buut you can't even begin to comprehend the pleasures of heaven.

i didnt think it was that dumb. so the human experience changes magically in heaven huh? that sounds cultish to me.

[The Answer]

Listen I don't have the energy to battle of all you now, that is why I provided the links. If you want to know about the true purpose of life, and why things are the why they are, and whats going to happen eventually, check the links.

Do you realize that, according to your belief system, your lack of energy could contribute to our eternal damnation? Suck it up, son.

[-primetime-]

You bring up a good point, PT. A point I'd like to expand upon. If YHWH is real, the spiritual system which determines whether or not one goes to Heaven or Hell is fair (this conclusion is based on YHWH's omnipotence/omnibenevolence; this conclusion is innerant and thus cannot be reasonably argued against). However, it is clear to any intellingent observer the spiritual system which governs Christianity is not fair (atleast the branch Superboy adheres to). Some people are obviously far more likely to be Christians, and thus go to Heaven, than others. Children born into Christian families, for example, have a far greater opportunity to attain salvation than their counterparts from non-Christian families. Outside of Christian countries, the disparity becomes even greater. A child born in India or Saudi Arabia has almost no chance to "find" Christ. One thing is clear: the god Superboy advocates and the spiritual system he believes in are logically incompatable with one another.
btw...

what does "YHWH's" stand for???

[The Answer]

that is why I like to believe we spend an eternity living out every life that has ever existed on this planet....and others


While it is undoubtedly an interesting idea, how can you possibly justify holding that belief? Surely you were just speculating, right?

[-primetime-]

i didnt think it was that dumb. so the human experience changes magically in heaven huh? that sounds cultish to me.
it wasn't dumb at all....

after doing ANYTHING for a trillion years you would go crazy and want to kill yourself...

and then you know you have trillions of years of the same thing to do all over again...

[The Answer]

btw...

what does "YHWH's" stand for???

It's an english transliteration of the four letter name of the Judeo-Christian god.

[SourGrapes]

it wasn't dumb at all....

after doing ANYTHING for a trillion years you would go crazy and want to kill yourself...

and then you know you have trillions of years of the same thing to do all over again...

exactly. i guess some people just need to believe in magic to get through the night...

[-primetime-]

While it is undoubtedly an interesting idea, how can you possibly justify holding that belief? Surely you were just speculating, right?
of course it is speculation...

I am agnostic...I don't rule out ANYTHING...and that includes the Bible and Athieism...

anything is possible as far as I know....as far as any human knows...

that was just a thought that I like to believe....

if we have an eternity, then that would definatly keep us entertained and it would bring justice to every crime and charity....because you are doing it to yourself...

[G-train]

So, if I live my life with faith that one day Martians are going to fly down here and take me back to their world, where I'll be made emperor, that's just as respectable as living a life based on reason, right?

No, I respect Christianity. 100's of millions dont believe the above, and the above does not have authentic manuscripts to hold it up.
Nor do I believe that 1000's have sacrificed there life on the above belief.

If somebody believed the above, I would respect their right of choice. But there is not much to back it up. Anyway isnt this thread about Christianity not Scientology?
:confusedshrug: :oldlol:

[The Answer]

I am agnostic...I don't rule out ANYTHING...and that includes the Bible and Athieism...



Are you willing to rule out something that's self-contradicting?

[-primetime-]

Are you willing to rule out something that's self-contradicting?
I have pretty much ruled out the Bible if that is where you are going...


although...who am I to say that God didn't send his son down here to die for our sins???.....I am only human, and I don't have the answer to that...neither do you...maybe god really is that unfair :confusedshrug:

I will say that I am 99.999999999% sure it is a false.....but I can't rule it out, I can't rule anything out....maybe lizard aliens came down here to create us???


the Bible is full of contradictions....but it was written by men, that doesn't mean that maybe there isn't some kind of truth to it...

[The Answer]

100's of millions dont believe the above, and the above does not have authentic manuscripts to hold it up.


First off, there's not necessarily a correlation between the numerical support a belief has and the validity of that belief. Secondly, why should we be concerned with ancient, illogical, self-contradictory manuscripts?




But there is not much to back it up. :confusedshrug: :oldlol:

Is there much backing up Christianity?

[DatZNasty]

If this doesn't prove that religion is man made, or I guess God came down and handed them this new updated list.
[quote]

Vatican Adds Seven New Deadly Sins

ROME

[G-train]

the Bible is full of contradictions....but it was written by men, that doesn't mean that maybe there isn't some kind of truth to it...

can you name some? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just interested

[G-train]

First off, there's not necessarily a correlation between the numerical support a belief has and the validity of that belief. Secondly, why should we be concerned with ancient, illogical, self-contradictory manuscripts?




Is there much backing up Christianity?

Dont misquote me thanks - those emoticons did not directly follow that statment.

Christians claim that recorded eye witness testimony,personal revelations or miraculous events, and a genuine fulfillment in their life backs up their beliefs.

[G-train]

BTW Christianity is a very general term.

I speak of pentecostal beliefs, not catholiscism.

[-primetime-]

can you name some? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just interested
the very first page of the Bible contradicts itself...

something like..."and on the 3rd day God created the Sun"

well how the hell could day 1 and 2 have happened without the Sun????

a day is based on the Earth's rotation around the Sun!!!!!

[The Answer]

that doesn't mean that maybe there isn't some kind of truth to it...

Though not in a literal sense, I definately think there is some truth to the Bible.

On a side note, I realize I'm beginning to come off as extremely anti-Christian. That's not my intention; I respect people's right to believe what they wish, regardless of how logical it is.

[SourGrapes]

the very first page of the Bible contradicts itself...

something like..."and on the 3rd day God created the Sun"

well how the hell could day 1 and 2 have happened without the Sun????

a day is based on the Earth's rotation around the Sun!!!!!

clarence darrow agrees. lets see what william jennings bryan has to say about it.

[The Answer]

Dont misquote me thanks - those emoticons did not directly follow that statment.


Sorry, I was not intentionally misquoting you. I just didn't delete the emoticons.

[-primetime-]

A List of Biblical Contradictions:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

hundreds of them...

[SHEED_ gangsta]

what's fornication?

[G-train]

the very first page of the Bible contradicts itself...

something like..."and on the 3rd day God created the Sun"

well how the hell could day 1 and 2 have happened without the Sun????

a day is based on the Earth's rotation around the Sun!!!!!

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning

[G-train]

Sorry, I was not intentionally misquoting you. I just didn't delete the emoticons.
:cheers:

[G-train]

what's fornication?

sex outside of marriage

[Take Your Lumps]

And children don't go to hell they go to Heaven.



What about the first-born sons of Egypt your "God" killed?

Where did they go?

http://www.intercot.com/discussion/images/smilies/waiting.gif

[-primetime-]

[QUOTE=G-train]1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning

[SuperboyXX0018]

http://www.intercot.com/discussion/images/smilies/waiting.gif


I don't know what happened to them only God does.

[-primetime-]

man I just hit 9k

congrats to me!!!!


:party:

[Take Your Lumps]

I don't know what happened to them only God does.

YOU SAID CHILDREN DON'T GO TO HELL, THEY GO TO HEAVEN.

Jesus Christ.

So....your loving God punished the INNOCENT first-born sons of the Egyptians for the insubordination of their parents and you're A-OK with this?

Anyone with half a brain knows this didn't happen to begin with but for someone to condone such behavior and furthermore structure their lives around the morality of this Creator is downright sickening. You people need help.

[DieHardBullsFan]

this is my view of Heaven and Hell.....

its impossible to be perfect in your whole entire life....if thats the case...everyone would go to hell...every single person.....I think if you live your life the right way and dont get into trouble you'll end up in heaven....but to fallow every single rule that people have added with religion over the years is a very far stretch...because were all human!

[G-train]

A List of Biblical Contradictions:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

hundreds of them...

cool thanks for that.

But I picked a few and read the verses surrounding them, and in context they dont condradict each other at all.

For example
Is it folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. Proverbs is written by a former King of Israel, Solomon, who is historically known as one of the greatest philosophers ever. He refer here to godly wisdom.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes is also written by Solomon, and it is a book about the sometimes emptiness of life. The original translation is that he refers to human intellect, not heavenly or righteous wisdom.

1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
Here the original translation refers to God talking about people who believe they know better than him about life and how to live it correctly.

I can do that for any of those 'contradictions' because I have studied bible theology.
I understand some reasoning for not believing in God, but bible contradictions I dont - as it was written to all tie in.

[G-train]

this is my view of Heaven and Hell.....

its impossible to be perfect in your whole entire life....if thats the case...everyone would go to hell...every single person.....I think if you live your life the right way and dont get into trouble you'll end up in heaven....but to fallow every single rule that people have added with religion over the years is a very far stretch...because were all human!

pure Christianity as taught in the early church was not based on rules, but on a relationship between imperfect humans and a perfect God. The bridge between the two is Jesus Christ. So the original teaching is to admit we are not perfect, but allow God to help correct things he doesnt agree with over time via a relationship with him.
What he doesnt agree with is judged mainly by how you love others, God and yourself.

[-primetime-]

I understand some reasoning for not believing in God, but bible contradictions I dont - as it was written to all tie in.
the very first one on the list:

God good to all, or just a few?

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.



please explain how that does not contradict itself???

[SuperboyXX0018]

YOU SAID CHILDREN DON'T GO TO HELL, THEY GO TO HEAVEN.


So why would you ask me that question?


So....your loving God punished the INNOCENT first-born sons of the Egyptians for the insubordination of their parents and you're A-OK with this?

FOR THE LAST TIME! I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN!! And the pains of the Earth is nothing compared to the worst parts of Hell.


Anyone with half a brain knows this didn't happen to begin with but for someone to condone such behavior and furthermore structure their lives around the morality of this Creator is downright sickening. You people need help.


You don't know the nature of God. You're lost.

[Randy]

You don't know the nature of God.

But I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
































































































http://www.gaytunes.com/images/god1b.jpg

[DieHardBullsFan]

pure Christianity as taught in the early church was not based on rules, but on a relationship between imperfect humans and a perfect God. The bridge between the two is Jesus Christ. So the original teaching is to admit we are not perfect, but allow God to help correct things he doesnt agree with over time via a relationship with him.
What he doesnt agree with is judged mainly by how you love others, God and yourself.


you supposed to do that anyway :confusedshrug:

[The Answer]

YOU SAID CHILDREN DON'T GO TO HELL, THEY GO TO HEAVEN.

Jesus Christ.

So....your loving God punished the INNOCENT first-born sons of the Egyptians for the insubordination of their parents and you're A-OK with this?

Anyone with half a brain knows this didn't happen to begin with but for someone to condone such behavior and furthermore structure their lives around the morality of this Creator is downright sickening. You people need help.

YHWH just loves to punish people unjustly, doesn't he? The story of the Garden of Eden is another prime example. YHWH punished all humanity, for all eternity, for the "sins" of two individuals. What's particularly absurd, however, is the fact that Adam and Eve could not have known the difference between what is right and wrong until they ate from the tree. Why, then, did YHWH expect them to realize it was wrong to disobey him and eat from the tree? Isn't he supposed to be omniscient? Adam and Eve had absolutely no concept of right and wrong, and therefore couldn't have committed a sin. To make matters worse, he punishes Eve far more severely than Adam for absolutely no reason by forcing upon her, and all womankind, the pain of childbirth. It's completely ridiculous. Just a primitive story created by a primitive culture.

[G-train]

the very first one on the list:

God good to all, or just a few?

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works. This is the first psalm of the 'great 6 praise psalms'. Here King David offers praise in song to God for his goodness towards himself, particulary when he faced certain death on seveal occasions.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
In the old testament (old agreement) God used the sacrifice of clean animals to cleanse sin. The israelites had lived perversly in sin for years without remorse and without cleansing. According to God the punishment of sin is death, unless you are cleansed.
When Jesus died and rose from the dead, Christians are to ask for forgiveness via Jesus. That cleans the human of sin. This is the new testament or agreement. If you dont ask for this, the punishment is likewise death.


please explain how that does not contradict itself???


One is a song of praise written by man, one is the direct words of God advising of punishment for unforgiven sins.

[-primetime-]

YHWH just loves to punish people unjustly, doesn't he? The story of the Garden of Eden is another prime example. YHWH punished all humanity, for all eternity, for the "sins" of two individuals. What's particularly absurd, however, is the fact that Adam and Eve could not have known the difference between what is right and wrong until they ate from the tree. Why, then, did YHWH expect them to realize it was wrong to disobey him and eat from the tree? Isn't he supposed to be omniscient? Adam and Eve had absolutely no concept of right and wrong, and therefore couldn't have committed a sin. To make matters worse, he punishes Eve far more severely than Adam for absolutely no reason by forcing upon her, and all womankind, the pain of childbirth. It's completely ridiculous. Just a primitive story created by a primitive culture.
yes....and this country (the U.S.) is begining to see that...

I read somewhere that in the past 5 years the number of Christians in this country has droped from something like 71% to 48%....

people (here in the U.S.) are starting to get a brain...

this is a reason that I don't have a problem with spreading democracy (I know I will get flamed for that).....but if the entire world was agnostic it would end alot of wars....the world would be a much more peaceful place....religion is the root of alot of this world's problems....(see Sept. 11)

[-primetime-]

One is a song of praise written by man, one is the direct words of God advising of punishment for unforgiven sins.
hmmm....

you really do seem to know your stuff...

so there are NO contradictions that stand out to you????

I know that many bible scholars question alot of the Bible....



Did you know that Reggie White (NFL player and Christian preacher now dead) read the original writings of the Bible (translated from whatever it was written in origonally...Hebrew maybe:confusedshrug: ) and decided he was no longer a Christian????

[G-train]

hmmm....

you really do seem to know your stuff...

so there are NO contradictions that stand out to you????

I know that many bible scholars question alot of the Bible....



Did you know that Reggie White (NFL player and Christian preacher now dead) read the original writings of the Bible (translated from whatever it was written in origonally...Hebrew maybe:confusedshrug: ) and decided he was no longer a Christian????

Well he felt the wrath of God then didnt he. :oldlol: j/k

Yeah there are stories either way, some look into it deeply and switch from Christian to non christian and vice versa.

There are undoubtedly grey areas but on the whole it ties in 99% of the time. Its been written to tie in, to fulfull prophesy. It is recorded in the gospels that Jesus deliberately did or said things to fulfil old testament prophesy.
It's almost like God said "Crap, I said that in 4500 BC. Better make sure he does that".

I have an analytical mind so Creation and Noah I struggle with. But in light of the other positives I just blindly believe this. I dont have anything to lose, except some dignity in the eyes of some men I guess. In the end it works out for me and most people are cool with it, and my friends and fam respect it so its all good.

I chose Christianity because it makes my life feel fulfilled. There is 100s of unanswered questions, but the bible is pretty solid.
Thats just my choice, and with the crazy world we live in, I just respect whatever others think.

Cos who really knows? But for me Christianity makes me feel pretty secure in life after death, and also in living a good life.

Some see that as weak minded, but meh I'm happy with it.

[G-train]

I dont understand why my mum walks perfectly despite being told 20 years ago she would be in a wheel chair in 10 years time, yet my pa dies of cancer and my christian friends mum dies from 3 strokes in 2 years.
and then a south african's deformed twisted leg straightens in front of me at a church meeting, and he gets up and walks away. Then in Papua new Guinea two stumps at the base of a womans torso grow into legs after being prayed for.
Like why does that happen? I dont know, and its hard to think about.

I understand the human impact on poverty etc, however the things above I definitely search for answers for.

Life is journey eh, spiritual, physical, mental, ISH... :)

[mavsfan4zindagi]

I dont understand why my mum walks perfectly despite being told 20 years ago she would be in a wheel chair in 10 years time, yet my pa dies of cancer and my christian friends mum dies from 3 strokes in 2 years.
and then a south african's deformed twisted leg straightens in front of me at a church meeting, and he gets up and walks away. Then in Papua new Guinea two stumps at the base of a womans torso grow into legs after being prayed for.
Like why does that happen? I dont know, and its hard to think about.

I understand the human impact on poverty etc, however the things above I definitely search for answers for.

Life is journey eh, spiritual, physical, mental, ISH... :)

"Miracles" happen for non-christians too. Islamic/Hindu/Buddhist/etc prayers have brought upon many supposed miracles too. Why would God perform miracles for people of other faith when he wants them to follow just one? Wouldn't God performing a miracle for a person of a "wrong" faith just reaffirm the person's belief in the "wrong" faith?

Oh and why is it that mankind is blamed for us being imperfect and sinful beings? If we were created perfect, then how can we go imperfect? Something perfect is always perfect and can never be imperfect. If it does become imperfect, then it wasn't perfect in the first place.

If someone built a toaster and it broke, would you blame the toaster? Or the one who built the toaster? Seems to me that God should take responsibility somewhere in this process.

[-primetime-]

I dont have anything to lose, except some dignity in the eyes of some men I guess. In the end it works out for me and most people are cool with it, and my friends and fam respect it so its all good.

I chose Christianity because it makes my life feel fulfilled.
there was a great scientist (in TIME Magazine) that said he is Christrian due to the fact the if he is wrong then nothing happens.....but if he is right then he benifits...

you are much easier to talk to than SuperBoy BTW....

[-primetime-]

"Miracles" happen for non-christians too. Islamic/Hindu/Buddhist/etc prayers have brought upon many supposed miracles too. Why would God perform miracles for people of other faith when he wants them to follow just one? Wouldn't God performing a miracle for a person of a "wrong" faith just reaffirm the person's belief in the "wrong" faith?

IMO a "miracle" is not some woman surving cancer.....a "miracle" is parting the sea, or turning a stick into a snake...


there has never been a legit "miracle" recorded on tape...

[Zak]

You should read the Bible superboy? What about all the confusing verses saying stuff like if you rape a girl, you have to marry her? Or just the overall hypocrisy in the judgemental nature of Christians despite the many verses pointing out not to? Christians are no better than "wordly" people. They just like to be pretentious *******s about everything and pretend like they are, despite the fact they sin as much as the next man. Call them on it though and if they do respond, they'll just tell you it's OK because they pray nightly and spend 2hrs a week at Church.

What about gluttony as a deadly sin Superboy? Why don't they ever preach that sermon at Church? It couldn't be because they only preach what is convenient to them could it? It obviously wouldn't be a popular sermon to tell people they are sinning for being fat, or overly rich, or owning anything in excess.

But they'll preach the hell out of Malachai 3:8, so you can give 10% of your hard earned money "to the church," so pastor can push a Cadillac Coupe De Ville and rock the freshest Italian imported suits every Sunday.

What about somebody like Malcolm X or Ghandi? Neither were Christians but both obviously had a positive impact on the world. Do they go Heaven or burn in hell? Does God totally overlook what they did in their lifetime because of the fact they worshipped somebody other than him?

Malcolm X was muslim, and muslims and christians believe in the same god.
Muslims just don't believe that jesus was the son of god.

[RainierBeachPoet]

Discuss.

a different way to look at the question is:

what "hell" does fornication create?

it is always good to look at effects and consequences on the person who chooses this or any act

[SourGrapes]

imo if fundamentalist christians actually believe in the supernatural powers of god and christianity they should be removed from society for the safety and health of everyone involved. time to go to bellvue.

i dont think most actually believe that stuff, and theyre just lying to themselves, but if they do, that is the stuff of psychosis.

[The Answer]

there was a great scientist (in TIME Magazine) that said he is Christrian due to the fact the if he is wrong then nothing happens.....but if he is right then he benifits...


That argument is known as Pascal's Wager. It argues, like you said, that any believer benefits infinitely if he's right, and doesn't lose anything if he's wrong. On the other end of the spectrum, it argues that those who don't believe have infinity to lose if they are wrong, and absolutely nothing to gain if they are right. Therefore, the argument seems to show that belief is more logical than disbelief.

There are some obvious flaws with this argument, however. First off, the argument presupposes a particular god is the "true" god. Saying that a Christian has nothing to lose if they are wrong ignores the possibility that another god is the "true" god. After all, couldn't a Muslim utilize precisely this same argument in support of Allah? If that was indeed the case, the Christian would be risking damnation in Islamic Hell for their belief. The number of gods man has worshipped, and still worships, is virtually innumerable. Anyone of these gods, in theory atleast, could have this argument constructed around them, so how is it logical to just pick out one and believe? It also seems to ignore the possibilty that God's completely apathetic towards humanity; maybe he rewards absolutely nobody. Another possibilty, which is completely ignored by the argument, is that perhaps God rewards those who reason over those who only utilize blind, irrational faith.

It also needs to be pointed out that belief is not necessarily a choice. If I were to ask you to believe in invisible pink unicorns, for example, could you do it? I assume your answer would be no. Belief in invisible pink unicorns, after all, is completely illogical and utterly ridiculous. Many people feel this same way towards the god hypothesis. At best, using this argument, a person could feign belief, but somehow I don't think that would be very effective against an omniscient entity. Furthermore, anyone who actually believes in God purely for this reason is believing only for their own spiritual gain. Might that not anger God if he exists?

In conclusion, there are simply far to many religions, gods, belief systems, and possibilities for this to be a valid, legitimate argument.

[Dasher]

I read this entire thread and there was little discussion about the joys of fornication. I am disappointed.

[Sharas]

if there is really god as the monotheistic religions portray him, he would recognize the hypocrisy. so just pretending to believe would be pointless either.

[-primetime-]

That argument is known as Pascal's Wager. It argues, like you said, that any believer benefits infinitely if he's right, and doesn't lose anything if he's wrong. On the other end of the spectrum, it argues that those who don't believe have infinity to lose if they are wrong, and absolutely nothing to gain if they are right. Therefore, the argument seems to show that belief is more logical than disbelief.

There are some obvious flaws with this argument, however. First off, the argument presupposes a particular god is the "true" god. Saying that a Christian has nothing to lose if they are wrong ignores the possibility that another god is the "true" god. After all, couldn't a Muslim utilize precisely this same argument in support of Allah? If that was indeed the case, the Christian would be risking damnation in Islamic Hell for their belief. The number of gods man has worshipped, and still worships, is virtually innumerable. Anyone of these gods, in theory atleast, could have this argument constructed around them, so how is it logical to just pick out one and believe? It also seems to ignore the possibilty that God's completely apathetic towards humanity; maybe he rewards absolutely nobody. Another possibilty, which is completely ignored by the argument, is that perhaps God rewards those who reason over those who only utilize blind, irrational faith.

It also needs to be pointed out that belief is not necessarily a choice. If I were to ask you to believe in invisible pink unicorns, for example, could you do it? I assume your answer would be no. Belief in invisible pink unicorns, after all, is completely illogical and utterly ridiculous. Many people feel this same way towards the god hypothesis. At best, using this argument, a person could feign belief, but somehow I don't think that would be very effective against an omniscient entity. Furthermore, anyone who actually believes in God purely for this reason is believing only for their own spiritual gain. Might that not anger God if he exists?

In conclusion, there are simply far to many religions, gods, belief systems, and possibilities for this to be a valid, legitimate argument.
all true...

although I don't think that all other religions send christians to hell...

but your unicorn example is why I am agnostic...I can't just pretend to believe in something that I find rediculous...I would be lieing to myself, and if the Christian God is real then he would see right through that anyway...

all I can do is wait until I die and see what happens...

I will tell you this....if I die and I see Jesus Christ there as the son of God I will then be an instant believer and ask for his forgivness...

the only "proof" we have of an after life is from NDEs (near death experiences). and some of them are very interesting...there are many people that have flat lined and seen the same things as others such....alot of them say that they saw spirits that they recognised as loved ones....alot of them say they felt the same feeling of being "set free" as though they have been there before but they were trapped in that human body....and the one that really gets me is that alot of them look down at thier dead body right after it happens and watch the doctors in the ER room. Once they come back they are able to tell the doctors with detail what the doctors to were doing to thier body while they where out...that to me is unexplainable through science...

[The Answer]

all true...

although I don't think that all other religions send christians to hell...


They don't. Christianity is unique in it's "convert or burn eternally" mentality. No other religion, as far as I know, has the concept of an eternal Hell.



I will tell you this....if I die and I see Jesus Christ there as the son of God I will then be an instant believer and ask for his forgivness...


Who wouldn't? I certainly would. And if I encountered Allah I'd instantly become a believer in Islam. If I was welcomed by Vishnu, I'd instantly become a believer in Hinduism. Same could be said for any god.



the only "proof" we have of an after life is from NDEs (near death experiences). and some of them are very interesting...there are many people that have flat lined and seen the same things as others such....alot of them say that they saw spirits that they recognised as loved ones....alot of them say they felt the same feeling of being "set free" as though they have been there before but they were trapped in that human body....and the one that really gets me is that alot of them look down at thier dead body right after it happens and watch the doctors in the ER room. Once they come back they are able to tell the doctors with detail what the doctors to were doing to thier body while they where out...that to me is unexplainable through science...

Yes, I commented on this in another thread. Important note: not all people report experiences similar to the ones you are describing. People from other cultures, for example, report entirely different experiences. Hindus, for instance, often report being visited by a group of men who take them to the god of death, Yama, where the deceased person is told that a mistake has been made, and that they are free to go back. They do not usually report the out of body experiences and such that Westerners do. To me, this cultural difference suggests there is something very different going on. After all, if there was an afterlife, shouldn't everyone, from every society, be experiencing it?

[-primetime-]

Yes, I commented on this in another thread. Important note: not all people report experiences similar to the ones you are describing. People from other cultures, for example, report entirely different experiences. Hindus, for instance, often report being visited by a group of men who take them to the god of death, Yama, where the deceased person is told that a mistake has been made, and that they are free to go back. They do not usually report the out of body experiences and such that Westerners do. To me, this cultural difference suggests there is something very different going on. After all, if there was an afterlife, shouldn't everyone, from every society, be experiencing it?
well some have explained these after life experiences to be just pulses that the brain goes through when it shuts down and you go into a dream mode...

or maybe god is trying to make them feel comfortable so he presents them with whatever god it is they believed in here at first :confusedshrug:



like I said....the only one that really gets me and that science can't explain is when some of them are able to tell the doctors what was going on in the room while they were out....they said they were looking down at themselves and saw everything happen and could explain it with detail...

imo the only explaination for that is that we do have some form of "spirit"...

[luigi>mario]

...
In conclusion, there are simply far to many religions, gods, belief systems, and possibilities for this to be a valid, legitimate argument.

Well presented. Pascal was a cool guy. Mathematician. Felt a "burning" feeling that he had to help convince people of God's existence.

You point out the weaknesses well. If you are willing to accept a few assumptions of his (God is good, is the classical christian ideal) then it is a great way to go.

The funny thing is, even choosing to not believe in God takes the same ammount of faith as believing in God, just a different kind. We are epistemologically challenged enough to honestly say we will never know for sure if he exists using reason and real world evidence; the same thing is true about his nonexistence.

My advice: you will be happier if you don't fornicate. Marriage will be worth more to you also, and there isn't much better in this life than a good marriage, and not much worse than a bad one. Do what you have to to make it work.

[-primetime-]

My advice: you will be happier if you don't fornicate. Marriage will be worth more to you also, and there isn't much better in this life than a good marriage, and not much worse than a bad one. Do what you have to to make it work.
those exist :confusedshrug:

[The Answer]

like I said....the only one that really gets me and that science can't explain is when some of them are able to tell the doctors what was going on in the room while they were out....they said they were looking down at themselves and saw everything happen and could explain it with detail...

imo the only explaination for that is that we do have some form of "spirit"...

Perhaps they just remember it subconsiously somehow? I honestly don't know for sure, as I haven't really studied this much, but I don't give much credance to anecdotal evidence like that. People have always reported crazy, untrue things. Like I said to you in another thread, though, I don't claim any sort of absolute certainty in regards to an afterlife or god. They may exist, but as of now, I don't see sufficient evidence to justify belief in them.

[The Answer]

The funny thing is, even choosing to not believe in God takes the same ammount of faith as believing in God, just a different kind. We are epistemologically challenged enough to honestly say we will never know for sure if he exists using reason and real world evidence; the same thing is true about his nonexistence.



Let me ask you this: Does disbelief in Sasquatch require the same degree of faith as belief in him? If not, why is there an exception when discussing the god hypothesis? Disbelief based on lack of evidence is always more logically justifiable than belief without evidence. With that said, though, I'd never claim absolute certainty there wasn't a god of some sort.

[luigi>mario]

Let me ask you this: Does disbelief in Sasquatch require the same degree of faith as belief in him? If not, why is there an exception when discussing the god hypothesis? Disbelief based on lack of evidence is always more logically justifiable than belief without evidence. With that said, though, I'd never claim absolute certainty there wasn't a god of some sort.

hmmmm. I think ultimately it does. Hear me out. Pragmatically, it is a lot easier to dismiss the existence of a Sasquatch. His existence really doesn't impact me, and empirical evidence suggests he doesn't exist. It is easier, but requires the same ammount of faith (rationally) to say I know it. So I guess I agree that certainty isn't available (rationally), and that practicallity requires us to judge using empirical evidence. But I would use the word "practical" instead of "logical" to say: disbelief based on evidence is always more practically justifiable than belief without evidence. Rationally/logically it is 50/50 IMO.
So when push comes to shove, I think there is lots of evidence to choose to believe in God practically. What do you think?

[Take Your Lumps]

Look where blind faith and a misunderstanding of science got this poor guy

http://www.planetdan.net/pics/misc/geronimo.gif

At least dogs have an excuse

[bomber]

You have something called SELF CONTROL! There is no excuse. God said get married.




You have a choice, either accept Jesus Christ now in this life or reject him and go to Hell for eternity. Its your choice. If you reject Christ that only means you would rather live for the temporal pleasures of this world and want nothing to do with God. You can choose that, but you are also choosing to go to hell.

God did not say anything. Jesus and other men said things.

[SuperboyXX0018]

God did not say anything. Jesus and other men said things.


The men who preached were preaching the word of God. The Bible is not made up by man only a fool would say that.

[i seen hippos]

The men who preached were preaching the word of God. The Bible is not made up by man only a fool would say that.

What's your view on the chapter that was left out of the bible where Mary gives Satan a rimjob? I guess the Romans knew she wouldn't be viewed as the Virgin Mother if she was portrayed as a whore who performed crazy erotic sex. I bet Satan's **** was real hot too.

Something like:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/83/FranksBottleShot1.jpg

[SourGrapes]

The men who preached were preaching the word of God. The Bible is not made up by man only a fool would say that.

i must be a pretty big fool then. there are a bunch of enlightened christian scholars over at bellvue psychiatric hospital who where telling me the same thing the other day.

[-primetime-]

The men who preached were preaching the word of God. The Bible is not made up by man only a fool would say that.
you are not a very good christian...calling us "fools" and all that...

aren't you supposed to be freindly and forgiving????

[i seen hippos]

you are not a very good christian...calling us "fools" and all that...

aren't you supposed to be freindly and forgiving????

He's obviously a protestant.

[SuperboyXX0018]

i must be a pretty big fool then. there are a bunch of enlightened christian scholars over at bellvue psychiatric hospital who where telling me the same thing the other day.




“He hangth the earth on nothing.” (Job 26:7)


How did a man thousands of years ago know that the Earth was floating in space? Impossible. That is just one of many examples that the Bible is the word of God. Yes man wrote the Bible, but God was their guide. A God who created a universe from nothing , can surely use man to get his word out.

[v-unit]

Superboy seems like a troll to me. An account like Jefferson Money used to draw attention and get people angry, because this is a huge joke. I don't see him winning any arguements here.

[SuperboyXX0018]

you are not a very good christian...calling us "fools" and all that...

aren't you supposed to be freindly and forgiving????


For the last time! I'm not a Christian!! I'm a backslidder, but I still believe.

[SuperboyXX0018]

The question shouldn't be "Does God exist?", but "How can God not exist?".



What can always exist, and create a universe from nothing? Can it be something natural? Absolutely not! It had to be God.

[v-unit]

Your basically saying that "Obviously something that exists forever has created the universe. And we know that can't be something natural, there for it is a supereme being."

Well, how do you know that it's something that exists forever? I don't want to get into this convo. though.

[Take Your Lumps]

Well, how do you know that it's something that exists forever? I don't want to get into this convo. though.

Because then he'd have to explain what/who made that God, and that God, and so on...

Let's say we were CREATED by a superior being -- what assurance is there that this being is the creator of the entire universe and that creator was not created by The Ultimate Creator or another "middle-man God" for that matter?

Again, it's just easier to make those assumptions and stop digging when things get tricky. And I'm sure that the human ego has a lot to do with theists claming to have been directly created by the architect of the entire universe.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Your basically saying that "Obviously something that exists forever has created the universe. And we know that can't be something natural, there for it is a supereme being."

Well, how do you know that it's something that exists forever? I don't want to get into this convo. though.

Well its common sense, nothing can only create nothing(logic), so something ALWAYS existed and created EVERYTHING. If something always existed, then it was never created! Its a stupid question to ask "who created God?", it doesn't make sense! There has to be an eternal creator, otherwise there would be nothing......

[SuperboyXX0018]

Because then he'd have to explain what/who made that God, and that God, and so on...

Let's say we were CREATED by a superior being -- what assurance is there that this being is the creator of the entire universe and that creator was not created by The Ultimate Creator?

Again, it's just easier to make those assumptions and stop digging when things get tricky.


Well the bottomline is that there is an "Ultimate Creator" of the universe.

[SourGrapes]

Well its common sense, nothing can only create nothin(logic), so something ALWAYS existed and created EVERYTHING. If something always existed, then it was never created! Its a stupid question to ask "who created God?", it doesn't make sense! There has to be an eternal creator, otherwise there would be nothing......

but that is a philosophical argument for the existence of some kind of god. not necessarily the god that is described the bible, or the god that is described by the various sects of christianity. what if god is a big purple dog?

[SuperboyXX0018]

but that is a philosophical argument for the existence of some kind of god. not necessarily the god that is described the bible, or the god that is described by the various sects of christianity.

Well the Bible has hundreds of prophecies that are impossible to happen by chance. Only a God can account for that since he lives outside of time and knows the future.



what if god is a big purple dog?


Yeah........... an eternal infinitely powerful purple dog.

[SourGrapes]

Well the Bible has hundreds of prophecies that are impossible to happen by chance. Only a God can account for that since he lives outside of time and knows the future.





Yeah........... an eternal infinitely powerful purple dog.

i could write something today that is analogous to something in the future using vague metaphors and over thousands of years something would happen that would make me seem like im clairvoyant. it isnt magic.

and as for the purple dog comment, the idea was that you cant define what youre talking about simply as you see fit. nobody knows what was before the universe. the bible isnt any more truthful than native american oral tradition or greek mythology.

[-primetime-]

For the last time! I'm not a Christian!! I'm a backslidder, but I still believe.
what is that :confusedshrug:

you have faith in the Bible right???...doesn't that make you a Christian???

[SuperboyXX0018]

i could write something today that is analogous to something in the future using vague metaphors and over thousands of years something would happen that would make me seem like im clairvoyant. it isnt magic.


Come on man you're not being honest and you clearly don't know anything about the probabilities of the Bible prophecies. You can google them.


and as for the purple dog comment, the idea was that you cant define what youre talking about simply as you see fit. nobody knows what was before the universe. the bible isnt any more truthful than native american oral tradition or greek mythology.

Well I kinda do, and there are many people who've had NDE'S and have seen God. And Christianity is the truth, and there is many evidence for that.


www.arkdiscovery.com

[SourGrapes]

the problem that i have the chrisianity as the end all truth is that the same symbolism shows up in islam and buddhism and the japanese creation story and i could go on...there is some dude half-way around the world right now who is saying everything youre saying in regards to a different religion. it isnt about universal truth but human experience.

and in terms of probabilities i do know what im talking about. if i were to say something, even something extremely specific, was going to happen, in two thousand years the likelyhood of that happening is almost guaranteed. its exponentially greater if there is wiggle room to define what is being said.

[SuperboyXX0018]

what is that :confusedshrug:

you have faith in the Bible right???...doesn't that make you a Christian???



Oh my......... you see you're conformed to this world and you are deceived. A Christian is one who walks on the path of Christ, one who is born-again of the spirit and no longer lives for themselves and hands their life over to God. Just because you go to church with your parents, and you believe in the Bible doesn't mean you're a Christian. Are you saved? Thats the thing.

[SuperboyXX0018]

the problem that i have the chrisianity as the end all truth is that the same symbolism shows up in islam and buddhism and the japanese creation story and i could go on...there is some dude half-way around the world right now who is saying everything youre saying in regards to a different religion. it isnt about universal truth but human experience.

It doesn't matter, religion is man made, all religions (expect for Christianity which really isn't a "religion) are false. I have had personal experiences and so have many others. But for the lost(like youself), you don't know anything about the Bible and its truth and wisdom.



and in terms of probabilities i do know what im talking about. if i were to say something, even something extremely specific, was going to happen, in two thousand years the likelyhood of that happening is almost guaranteed. its exponentially greater if there is wiggle room to define what is being said.


If you research and study the Bible prophecies and you still draw that conclusion, you're a fool.

[SourGrapes]

i guess the problem here is the intersection of faith and logic. they dont mix well.

[SuperboyXX0018]

i guess the problem here is the intersection of faith and logic. they dont mix well.

Yes it does take faith, but like I said there are NDE'S and people like me who have experienced the power of both God and Demons. I can't prove it to you, but I know for a fact that there is a God and demons exist. And the existence of a God is common sense anyways. This universe could not of happen by chance its impossible.

[Take Your Lumps]

Well the bottomline is that there is an "Ultimate Creator" of the universe.

But that's not the point....your goal in life is to be a 'real' Christian and hand your life completely over to the God of the bible.

That's fine and completely up to you but what I'm saying is that even if there were irrefutable evidence PROVING the existence of a Creator of the Universe -- proving the Creator of the Universe spawned life on Earth is a whole nother issue. It could easily have been Tom Cruise's alien buddies who created life on Earth if that were the case. So in essence you could end up worshipping a false idol.

Why is it that the rabbit hole stops where you want it to stop?

[Chalkmaze]

Well its common sense, nothing can only create nothing(logic), so something ALWAYS existed and created EVERYTHING. If something always existed, then it was never created! Its a stupid question to ask "who created God?", it doesn't make sense! There has to be an eternal creator, otherwise there would be nothing......


****ing moron... So pitiful, pathetic, ridiculous, and lacking reason and rational. You can have your blind faith, but be honest about it, cuz that's all it is, reasoning is not your strong point, don't pretend to have any skills in this department.

it's time to pull out your picture again.

http://www.erichufschmid.net/Dumb-down/super-retard.JPG

[SourGrapes]

and as for fornication, i find it hilarious that people fight an urge that has been fostered by literally millions of years of evolution. abstinence programs make kids hate themselves to battle that which is responsible for our existence.

[Penny37]

the very first page of the Bible contradicts itself...

something like..."and on the 3rd day God created the Sun"

well how the hell could day 1 and 2 have happened without the Sun????

a day is based on the Earth's rotation around the Sun!!!!!

The first couple chapters of Genesis are written in poetry.
1 and 4 go together, 2 and 5 go together, and 3 and 6 go together.
The author of Genesis was writing it in poetry.

[Penny37]

a God that sends undeserving people to burn for an eternity is a very bad god imo....

what about people that have never heard of the Bible or Christ in other countries???

what about children that die at the age of 3???

what about people born with a mental disorder???

do they all burn forever???



did you know that there are more people on this planet that know who Mickey Mouse is than Jesus Christ????

God is a just God.
He will look at every individual and judge them accordingly.
As Christians, we like to stay away from questions such as "Is so and so going to Hell?"
Only God can judge us.

[Penny37]

Superboy, if our world truly is governed by the omnipotent, omnibenevolent YHWH, how do you explain the existence of evil and suffering in the world?
There are many reasons.
Suffering builds perseverance, perseverance builds character, and character leads to hope.

How can we grow as humans if we don't suffer?

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'
- Ben Stein

[Penny37]

A List of Biblical Contradictions:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

hundreds of them...
If you're talking Old Testament and New Testament then yeah, obviously there are many contradictions.

When Jesus came, everything changed. He was sent because God had mercy on us. Whereas in the Old Testament God wasn't very nice, to say the least.

However, even in the New Testament there are many contradictions.
In Mark (I believe) when Jesus is crucified it says one of the robbers He was crucified with became a believer and went to Hell.
But in Luke, they both went to Hell.

Many little things that are contradicted.

Does this mean the Bible isn't true? I disagree. I believe it makes the Bible MORE true.

True in the sense that we know it's not perfect. There are two differing beliefs.

One belief is that everything in the Bible is true. The other, and my own personal belief as well, is that the bible isn't perfect. It was written by man and inspired by God.

So when you have little differences it validates the Bible even more. When the Church was putting the bible together we know that they did not omit certain things because it was contradicted. The church didn't care that Mark had a different story than Luke. They put it together the way it was.

[Penny37]

but you can???

from my experiences here on earth...the things that are "pleasures" are considered a sin in the bible...

is Heaven an eternity of orgies with hot chicks????...that is way too much sin....and lets face it....eventuallly you would get tired of it and want to do something else...something sinful...

I know you might find this really hard to believe.
But feeling the Holy Spirit is MUCH more pleasurable than having an orgy.

Honestly, it is. Being in a roomful or auditorium or whatever, and just worshiping and praying, is more favorable to me.

But God understands that humans have hormones. And He tells us that we can have sexual relations as long as it's monogomous. Nothing wrong with that, even in a worldy perspective.

[Penny37]

Have you controlled your hormones your whole life? Have you focused on the bible every secound and not acted on your desires for fear of burning in hell for infinite? If so, will you continue that for the rest of your life, not have sex and reproduce, and die, alone, with no friends?

It's called grace.
It's a very difficult concept to understand.
We are all sinners and we all fall short of the glory of God.
You can be a sinner your whole life, you can murder people, you can rape people, it doesn't matter.

As long as you admit you did wrong and accept Christ.
It's that simple.

[SuperboyXX0018]

But that's not the point....your goal in life is to be a 'real' Christian and hand your life completely over to the God of the bible.

That's fine and completely up to you but what I'm saying is that even if there were irrefutable evidence PROVING the existence of a Creator of the Universe -- proving the Creator of the Universe spawned life on Earth is a whole nother issue. It could easily have been Tom Cruise's alien buddies who created life on Earth if that were the case. So in essence you could end up worshipping a false idol.

Why is it that the rabbit hole stops where you want it to stop?



I have experienced the power of God literally so I know for a fact. I didn't see God, I don't know for a fact that its the God of the Bible, but I seriously believe it was.

[Take Your Lumps]

I have experienced the power of God literally so I know for a fact. I didn't see God, I don't know for a fact that its the God of the Bible, but I seriously believe it was.

ok

[Take Your Lumps]

This is your brain on God (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger_pr.html)


Over a scratchy speaker, a researcher announces, "Jack, one of your electrodes is loose, we're coming in." The 500-pound steel door of the experimental chamber opens with a heavy whoosh; two technicians wearing white lab coats march in. They remove the Ping-Pong-ball halves taped over my eyes and carefully lift a yellow motorcycle helmet that's been retrofitted with electromagnetic field-emitting solenoids on the sides, aimed directly at my temples. Above the left hemisphere of my 42-year-old male brain, they locate the dangling electrode, needed to measure and track my brain waves. The researchers slather more conducting cream into the graying wisps of my red hair and press the securing tape hard into my scalp.

After restoring everything to its proper working position, the techies exit, and I'm left sitting inside the utterly silent, utterly black vault. A few commands are typed into a computer outside the chamber, and selected electromagnetic fields begin gently thrumming my brain's temporal lobes. The fields are no more intense than what you'd get as by-product from an ordinary blow-dryer, but what's coming is anything but ordinary. My lobes are about to be bathed with precise wavelength patterns that are supposed to affect my mind in a stunning way, artificially inducing the sensation that I am seeing God.

I'm taking part in a vanguard experiment on the physical sources of spiritual consciousness, the current work-in-progress of Michael Persinger, a neuropsychologist at Canada's Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario. His theory is that the sensation described as "having a religious experience" is merely a side effect of our bicameral brain's feverish activities. Simplified considerably, the idea goes like so: When the right hemisphere of the brain, the seat of emotion, is stimulated in the cerebral region presumed to control notions of self, and then the left hemisphere, the seat of language, is called upon to make sense of this nonexistent entity, the mind generates a "sensed presence."


Delgado's relatively coarse stunts were a long way from Persinger's quest for the God spot, but Persinger is not the first to theorize that the Creator exists only in the complex landscape of the human noggin. In his controversial 1976 book, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, Julian Jaynes, a Princeton psychologist, argued that the brain activity of ancient people - those living roughly 3,500 years ago, prior to early evidence of consciousness such as logic, reason, and ethics - would have resembled that of modern schizophrenics. Jaynes maintained that, like schizophrenics, the ancients heard voices, summoned up visions, and lacked the sense of metaphor and individual identity that characterizes a more advanced mind. He said that some of these ancestral synaptic leftovers are buried deep in the modern brain, which would explain many of our present-day sensations of God or spirituality.

good read

[bringthetruth]

:rolleyes:

if this were actually true then God is not playing very fair...

he created something in me called "hormones" that make me want to do naughty things to girls...those "hormones" he created are also the only reason that humans and animals reproduce...

but enough of this crazy "science" talk already....we are all going to hell and heaven is going to be a very loney place...

way to go God!....thanks alot for creating me and tricking me into burning in hell for an eternity.....you're a really swell guy :applause:


This is why he created marriage.

But man has perverted it with one nighters and gang banging and also rape.

If two virgins male and female got married, what other lust would they have for another person when this is who they choose to marry and they are in love with them. This is what God's ideal plan was when it came to sex.

Man distorted it and tried to make it imbecellic to wait for a marriage partner.

Do you think people would have to worry about STD's or AIDS if they did it God's way?

[Take Your Lumps]

^^ Yes, because God didn't say anything about ****ing chimps and orangutans.

proof (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e3de0c8853)

[Sharas]

that's load of crap.

man isn't inherently monogamous being. in fact, there are many proofs for just the opposite. monogamy is the social construction, just like the family. neither has existed since the beginnings of human race, like bible thumpers and fundies would have you believe.

[bringthetruth]

that's load of crap.

man isn't inherently monogamous being. in fact, there are many proofs for just the opposite. monogamy is the social construction, just like the family. neither has existed since the beginnings of human race, like bible thumpers and fundies would have you believe.


Do you think america would have lasted this long if it weren't for marriage and family ?

Look at how america is breaking down , about the same time the family has.

[Banks91]

The day i stopped believing in religion is the day i asked myself, do you actually believe that there is a magical being in the sky?.

I said no, and it was the end of that. That's all that matters to me, which it all comes down to in my opinion. IF you can ask yourself that and say yes, go on from there. If not, then there's nothing else to say.

[johndeeregreen]

I went to a Catholic high school and I believe in God. For all of you guys trying to debunk the Bible, even the mandatory religion classes (taught by a nun) agree that the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally. They agree that a lot of the stuff in there isn't exactly what it says. But there are some great lessons in there. I've never read it in entirety, or even close. I'm not a prototypical Catholic - I don't attend church, because I don't feel that it's necessary to have a relationship with God, and organized religion is f*cked twelve ways from Sunday as it is. I do pray, and I do feel at a number of junctures in my life I have made it through with the help of God. Whether it is a belief or something more that helped me, I cannot be certain until I die. But I will go to my grave with a belief in a higher power. I don't know if I'd go to heaven. I've committed numerous sins in my lifetime, too many to count, and certainly haven't asked forgiveness for even close to all of them. I don't believe that a just God would condemn you to hell for a sin such as drinking too much. A truly just God, methinks, would forgive minor sins like that, unless you are causing others around you pain and suffering.

[Sharas]

Do you think america would have lasted this long if it weren't for marriage and family ?

Look at how america is breaking down , about the same time the family has.

now read it again CAREFULLY, and answer me, how does that rely on ANYTHING i said? did i say family was bad? or that it shouldn't be? NO.

i only said it's a human, social construct. humanity has existed before the concept of family. and its forms have very significantly evolved, varied and changed through the history. sorry, but facts simply deny the idea of family and marriage as something eternal, god-given. hell, even now, there are still tribes in the earth who have primitive or non existing notions of family.

(BTW, i don't think family is even top 20 on the list of reasons why is america on the decline right now. but that's the whole other story)

[bringthetruth]

now read it again CAREFULLY, and answer me, how does that rely on ANYTHING i said? did i say family was bad? or that it shouldn't be? NO.

i only said it's a human, social construct. humanity has existed before the concept of family. and its forms have very significantly evolved, varied and changed through the history. sorry, but facts simply deny the idea of family and marriage as something eternal, god-given. hell, even now, there are still tribes in the earth who have primitive or non existing notions of family.

(BTW, i don't think family is even top 20 on the list of reasons why is america on the decline right now. but that's the whole other story)

Would you have as many runaways and kids in gangs if familes were together and complete with mother and father being on board ?

Would so many kids hustle drugs if both parents were home ?

Do you really believe so many children would have so many babies at such a young age if both parents were home?

Cmon wake man, the break down of the family has made children have to grow up wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to fast and make too many life changing mistakes before they even become an adult.

[Sharas]

thing is, that stuff like children not having parents, doesn't happen out of thin air. it happens for a myriad of bigger reasons. economical, social, politic and so on. dissolution of family is just a consequence, or a sign of bigger things going on. it's not the reason by itself for anything.

ask yourself, how much really things would be different in ghettos and slums around the world, if every child had both parents, but the levels of crime, poverty, lack of perspective, education and employment and so on, remained the same?

my gut feeling is - not too much.

[SourGrapes]

Would you have as many runaways and kids in gangs if familes were together and complete with mother and father being on board ?

Would so many kids hustle drugs if both parents were home ?

Do you really believe so many children would have so many babies at such a young age if both parents were home?

Cmon wake man, the break down of the family has made children have to grow up wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to fast and make too many life changing mistakes before they even become an adult.

you dont have to be a devout christian to support family. also, what you describe as family might be totally different from what somebody else has experienced. youre saying because this happened god is good, but there isnt necessarily a connection between the two.

[The Answer]

There are many reasons.
Suffering builds perseverance, perseverance builds character, and character leads to hope.


That answer does not suffice. An omnipotent being, having unlimited power, can bring about character without suffering and evil. The end result of evil and suffering is irrelevant; this is simply because said end result can always be attained without evil and suffering. An omnibenevolent being would always bypass the needless suffering.



Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'
- Ben Stein

YHWH should be pushed from our shools and government. This is a nation based on the idea of Separation of Church and State; contrary to whatever you may believe, this is not a Christian nation. Christianity is not any more valid than any other religion, and shouldn't be given any special treatment.

[SourGrapes]

There are many reasons.
Suffering builds perseverance, perseverance builds character, and character leads to hope.

How can we grow as humans if we don't suffer?

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'
- Ben Stein

LOL at this rubbish. that isnt profound or insightful. some people...its like they make a natural disaster about their own ideas. unbelievable.

[v-unit]

Ok, well what if Hitler, while in his bunker before he took his pills or poisen, prayed and prayed, and tried really hard, and saw God. Then he communicated with him and got recognition and all his sins cured. Then he died, does he just go to heaven?

[bigdog13]

Superboy what is you beleive is some other religion other than Christianity? what happens to you then? Is it an automatic entry to Hell?

and which Christian religion is right? Catholic, Protestant? Baptist, Anglican? Luthern? Please help Superboy

[final.wrath]

Big Mistake... Don't ever underestimate the power of the Devil.

without God... You will lose.

too much tex marrs.

[johndeeregreen]

Ok, well what if Hitler, while in his bunker before he took his pills or poisen, prayed and prayed, and tried really hard, and saw God. Then he communicated with him and got recognition and all his sins cured. Then he died, does he just go to heaven?
Can't go to heaven if you kill yourself, so he would've wasted all that time.

[SuperboyXX0018]

Superboy what is you beleive is some other religion other than Christianity? what happens to you then? Is it an automatic entry to Hell?


Yes, all of our lives is based on whether we expect Jesus Christ or reject him. Whether you believe it or not. Jesus is the only way to God because we're all sinners and we can't come to God without a redeemer(he is holy and we are dirty), and Jesus Christ(God in the flesh) died for our sins so we can be forgiven by accepting him as our Lord and Savior. If you don't do that now in this life you have to go to hell and pay for your sins forever.


and which Christian religion is right? Catholic, Protestant? Baptist, Anglican? Luthern? Please help Superboy

Well, the whole point is to repent for your sins(confess your sins to God) and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and be fully submissive to God and his commandments. Thats all you have to do. Its not about your works, because our good works are useless to God because we're sinners. Its about grace, and God's love that you are saved. Forget about the different branches of Christianity and follow the word alone.

[SourGrapes]

^^ours is a very insecure god!!!!

[bringthetruth]

you dont have to be a devout christian to support family. also, what you describe as family might be totally different from what somebody else has experienced. youre saying because this happened god is good, but there isnt necessarily a connection between the two.

Just because familes have been broken down to single parent homes doesn't mean God's ideal of families has changed.

I know a few good single parents, but ask them if they had a good spouse how much better it would be. That's God's best and his original plan.

We can call anything a family without God's direction, because of our misconstrued view of what family is supposed to be.
When you do not make a commitment, anything goes , nobody doesn't have to be held responsible and ciaos can easily take place and thus we make up new ways how to survive and cope with everyday life.

[bringthetruth]

^^ours is a very insecure god!!!!

RELIGION isn't necessarrily right, but Jesus is.

He's the only thing right in a wrong world.

Tha's why he died for you and me as a sacrifice to get us to the other side with him.

How many people you know would die for so many people?

[bigdog13]

Bringthetruth and Superboy how can you be so closed minded to think that billions of people are praying to the wrong god? The Quran may be the correct word of god and you are praying to a guy who made up the story that he was the son of god to pick up chicks and impress his friends around the big table. He had such an ego that he had to always sit in the middle so he spun the tail.
but as long as you are praying to a higher spirit and give your life to thier worship, be good etc etc then it is good enough?
I don't beleive in any God. It just does not make sense to. The human race are just weeklings who need a crutch called god or Allah or whatever. You go to a place wheer you float around. LOL. Where TF is heaven in the first place?
Plus I dismiss that a god would be so insure as to require people to talk about him all the time and if they don't follow his rules he would make you fry forever. Imagine someone who loves you could do that? he has no ability for unconditional forgivenness. God says I love you so much that I don't mind if one of my "childern suffer forever" I am not sure if you guys are parents but I know I would do anything to make my childern not have to suffer, even if they did something bad to me. You did not clean up your room, live by the furnace and eat nothing by maggots. Who does this? God. what a hypocrite and creep.

[Take Your Lumps]

Its not about your works, because our good works are useless to God because we're sinners.

What a sad way to live.

[bringthetruth]

Bringthetruth and Superboy how can you be so closed minded to think that billions of people are praying to the wrong god? The Quran may be the correct word of god and you are praying to a guy who made up the story that he was the son of god to pick up chicks and impress his friends around the big table. He had such an ego that he had to always sit in the middle so he spun the tail.
but as long as you are praying to a higher spirit and give your life to thier worship, be good etc etc then it is good enough?
I don't beleive in any God. It just does not make sense to. The human race are just weeklings who need a crutch called god or Allah or whatever. You go to a place wheer you float around. LOL. Where TF is heaven in the first place?
Plus I dismiss that a god would be so insure as to require people to talk about him all the time and if they don't follow his rules he would make you fry forever. Imagine someone who loves you could do that? he has no ability for unconditional forgivenness. God says I love you so much that I don't mind if one of my "childern suffer forever" I am not sure if you guys are parents but I know I would do anything to make my childern not have to suffer, even if they did something bad to me. You did not clean up your room, live by the furnace and eat nothing by maggots. Who does this? God. what a hypocrite and creep.

God's desire is that all men be saved and come onto the knowledge of truth.

The choice is now yours.

Malcom X went to mecca and found out that Islam had believers of many nationalities and ethnicticities, so when he came back to america with truth he was shunned to speak anymore.

He also exposed Elijah Mohammad multiple children with young women, this was just a man who many out their trust in.

Malcom X father was a preacher , but when the kkk came and murdered him and claimed they were christian he denounced it.

Later after the mecca visit he was leaning towards the God of his father(Jesus) and that's when he was killed.

[Chalkmaze]

RELIGION isn't necessarrily right, but Jesus is.

He's the only thing right in a wrong world.

Tha's why he died for you and me as a sacrifice to get us to the other side with him.

How many people you know would die for so many people?

I'd die too and suffer to get rid of the whole Jesus idea. Just give me the opportunity... I'll die the same way that hapened in the story of Jesus (not proven to be a real guy btw), and if it will undo all the BS the bible spews, and make everyone realize it's all a crock, then it'll be worth it to me... Where do I sign up for that?

It's funny because plenty of people have been through worse than the story of Jesus... Why's he so special, he's the only one that supposedly (what a joke) had the option, yet no one else gets a chance to prove they care more or would die more brutally for another cause? The story is not that special, or remarkable, you're just taught to believe it is.

[Randy]

Since Jesus was "god in the flesh", sending him to die on the cross is actually suicide, thus making god a sinner and deserving of hell.

What a bloody hypocrite god is.

[Take Your Lumps]

You know, Walmart may support sodomy but at least they're nice enough to sell you the KY jelly for $.88

[bringthetruth]

Since Jesus was "god in the flesh", sending him to die on the cross is actually suicide, thus making god a sinner and deserving of hell.

What a bloody hypocrite god is.

WHAT YOU CELEBRATE EASTER FOR IS THAT HE ROSE FROM THE GRAVE.

God needed a sacrifice for all of our sins, so that who ever believes on jesus shall be saved.

Not some easterbunny foolishness.

[RainierBeachPoet]

**sigh**

check out beliefnet.com for some intelligent information and conversations regarding faith/religion

[Randy]

WHAT YOU CELEBRATE EASTER FOR IS THAT HE ROSE FROM THE GRAVE.

God needed a sacrifice for all of our sins, so that who ever believes on jesus shall be saved.

Not some easterbunny foolishness.

WRONG.



Sorry mate, this is why you celebrate Easter:


The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime.

Christianity stealing from the always awesome Pagans? No wayz!!! :oldlol:

[dn41]

sorry superboy but common sense(which you don't have) tells us that your god probably(> 99.9999999%) doesn't exist. Yeah that are the cold facts but i'm sure that you'll get over it eventually. :cheers:

[bigdog13]

its true, you cannot have common sense and have faith. They totally contridict each other.

What if the Christians are wrong, the Jews are wrong, the Muslims are wrong, the Hindus are wrong and only a small religion developed in the rainforests of the Amazon is right? what do we do?

[Ryoka Narusawa]

Discuss

[n00bie]

Discuss.

Can someone religious explain why God would give us all parts to fornicate, and give us urges to do so just to not allow it?

Seems cruel to me. Let's tempt someone to do something 24/7 but not allow it so we can watch them stuffer.

[fsvr54]

I'm not religious, but I find people who hate on religion with such passion to be fools.

[TheMan]

Can someone religious explain why God would give us all parts to fornicate, and give us urges to do so just to not allow it?

Seems cruel to me. Let's tempt someone to do something 24/7 but not allow it so we can watch them stuffer.

https://youtu.be/FaHEusBG20c

[n00bie]

I'm not religious, but I find people who hate on religion with such passion to be fools.

I don't necessarily hate religion but I hate churches.

[Gohan]

Yea even just looking at pornography is adultery. Fornication is bad

[Chick Stern]

there is no hell, so you’re good

[Chick Stern]

oh, you've never been in jail then. much less a turkish one :oldlol:

have you ever been to a Turkish prison?
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YaLeKw8SSnk/maxresdefault.jpg

[Gohan]

sorry superboy but common sense(which you don't have) tells us that your god probably(> 99.9999999%) doesn't exist. Yeah that are the cold facts but i'm sure that you'll get over it eventually. :cheers:

Imagine being this stupid to believe god doesnt exist