Is Rafer Alston a Hall-of-Famer?

[L.Kizzle]

Most of y'all are looking at this thread and probably think it's a joke, but no this is a series question. Is Rafer "Skip ti my Lue" Alston a Hall-of-Famer.


Before y'all go crazy just think about. Skip is a very important player, probably one of the most important players this past decade or so? He single handedly changed Streetball forever. Not only that, he was a highly touted college player and a (current) 9 years NBA vet.


Now he might not be player worthy, but as a contributer, I can see him making the Hall.

[Jailblazers7]

I could honestly see it happening he started the And 1 movement which was a new chapter in basketball history.

[Gevz2kX]

no. 39% FG shooting through your career doesn't get you into the hall of fame.

[VCMVP1551]

no. 39% FG shooting through your career doesn't get you into the hall of fame.

Tell that to Bob Cousy.

[v-unit]

I love Skip. But no. His stats arn't good, his accomplishments in leagues wern't HOF worthy...I understand he made the movement, but I don't think thats enough, because it still isn't that big.

[L.Kizzle]

I love Skip. But no. His stats arn't good, his accomplishments in leagues wern't HOF worthy...I understand he made the movement, but I don't think thats enough, because it still isn't that big.
You sure...

And his stats don't have to be mind blowing, he wouldn't be going in as a NBA player. Playing in the league would only help his cause.

[TruthKGRay3412]

Tell that to Bob Cousy.

Please dont mention Couz in a Rafer Alston thread.:cheers:

[TruthKGRay3412]

Does And1 have a HOF? Because he DAMN sure ain't making the NBA HOF.I cant believe people are actually thinking about this.His numbers/"accomplishments" are nowhere close near HOF worthy.He will be known as a street ball legend,thats it.

[B-Low]

I coulda sworn it was just the basketball HOF, not NBA isn't it?

[L.Kizzle]

Does And1 have a HOF? Because he DAMN sure ain't making the NBA HOF.I cant believe people are actually thinking about this.His numbers/"accomplishments" are nowhere close near HOF worthy.
There is no such thing as an "NBA Hall of Fame".

It's a Basketball Hall for great players, coaches, contributes who helped change and evolve the game

[StroShow4]

at first i was thinking hell no, but you're right kizzle, rafer was a big contributer to basketball outside of the league. he really did put the street style on the map, and like it or not AND1 ended up becoming huge, and it was really all because of him. if i was a voter i would certainly consider it.

[RagingBull33]

Does And1 have a HOF? Because he DAMN sure ain't making the NBA HOF.
It's the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame, not NBA Hall.
I don't see him getting a legitimate following enough to get in, although he had a big influence on the street ball aspect of the sport. If Dennis Johnson isn't in, it don't see how he is inducted.

[B-Low]

Right Kizzle, before people completely shoot this down you have to remember he kinda bridged the gap as the first player to actually be discovered IN streetball and work his way up the ranks to a starter on an NBA team. He's made huge strides as far as the 2 fields go

[gts]

I coulda sworn it was just the basketball HOF, not NBA isn't it?yes it is the Basketball hall of fame, for college, pro, aba, the globe trotters are in it some place... i don't follow and 1 stuff at all but if alston was a major force in that movement then he may get in on that alone... as an nba player no, but as a contributor to the game i guess anythings possible

[bdreason]

He started what movement?!

The movement towards U.S. Basketball players sucking because they value style over substance?

If anything, AND1 streetball has set our country back in regards to basketball talent.

[TruthKGRay3412]

He started what movement?!

The movement towards U.S. Basketball players sucking because they value style over substance?

If anything, AND1 streetball has set our country back in regards to basketball talent.

Seriously.:cheers:

[StroShow4]

yes it is the Basketball hall of fame, for college, pro, aba, the globe trotters are in it some place... i don't follow and 1 stuff at all but if alston was a major force in that movement then he may get in on that alone... as an nba player no, but as a contributor to the game i guess anythings possible

alston WAS the movement. seriously. atleast two thirds of the first AND1 mixtape was him, and that tape really put AND1 and the flashy street style on the map.

[B-Low]

He started what movement?!

The movement towards U.S. Basketball players sucking because they value style over substance?

If anything, AND1 streetball has set our country back in regards to basketball talent.

Not really. Streetball isn't even about the moves, it's about the culture. I mean look at the NBA players that have gone up there. Everyone from Wilt Chamberlain back in the day to Kobe Bryant this millenium. I mean even Bill Clinton made the trip up there.

People like to say that streetball is all about the flash but more than anything it was about giving people who can't afford to buy $60 a form of entertainment that they were missing by not having the chance to go to NBA games. The music, the culture, the entertainment, the fans...anyone who says streetball is just about fancy moves and trash talking doesn't know the deeper aspects of it. It runs so much deeper and really means a lot to fans of the game all over the world

[bdreason]

Not really. Streetball isn't even about the moves, it's about the culture. I mean look at the NBA players that have gone up there. Everyone from Wilt Chamberlain back in the day to Kobe Bryant this millenium. I mean even Bill Clinton made the trip up there.

People like to say that streetball is all about the flash but more than anything it was about giving people who can't afford to buy $60 a form of entertainment that they were missing by not having the chance to go to NBA games. The music, the culture, the entertainment, the fans...anyone who says streetball is just about fancy moves and trash talking doesn't know the deeper aspects of it. It runs so much deeper and really means a lot to fans of the game all over the world


The typical streetballer would rather look good and lose, then look bad and win.

"as long as I get mine"

I've got nothing against streetball... I play it 3 days a week. However, streetball and organized ball are two totally different games. I respect Alston for making it to the NBA after having a successful streetball career... but implying that streetball somehow helped the game of Basketball is ridiculous. If anything, kids started respecting streetball too much, and disregarded the importance of Basketball fundamentals.

[kidachi]

Streetball...yes, NBA..NO..

[HAzE024]

The typical streetballer would rather look good and lose, then look bad and win.

"as long as I get mine"

I've got nothing against streetball... I play it 3 days a week. However, streetball and organized ball are two totally different games. I respect Alston for making it to the NBA after having a successful streetball career... but implying that streetball somehow helped the game of Basketball is ridiculous. If anything, kids started respecting streetball too much, and disregarded the importance of Basketball fundamentals.

Man, you're a Warriors fan aren't you? We're proving that fundamentals are overrated. (Note: Overrated does not mean unnecessary)

[DieHardBullsFan]

Most of y'all are looking at this thread and probably think it's a joke, but no this is a series question. Is Rafer "Skip ti my Lue" Alston a Hall-of-Famer.


Before y'all go crazy just think about. Skip is a very important player, probably one of the most important players this past decade or so? He single handedly changed Streetball forever. Not only that, he was a highly touted college player and a (current) 9 years NBA vet.


Now he might not be player worthy, but as a contributer, I can see him making the Hall.

Hot Sauce and The Professor is going into the Hall of Fame before Alston goes in :oldlol:

seriously I see where your going with this (somehow :confusedshrug: )

I mean there are Harlem Globe trotters in the Hall of fame right now ....and if you think about it ....the guys from the And 1 tours are just like the globe trotters but there games are more serious than the playfulness of the trotters....

but overall

Rafer dont even need to say HOF or come 10 feet to where its held!

[KenneBell]

He's got a chance. Seriously...

[Lebron23]

Yes.

[dnyk1337]

Seriously.:cheers:

You don't even know what the HoF is, so why are you co-signing. :confusedshrug: :rolleyes:

[el_locoteee]

Streetball...yes, NBA..NO..

There is not a NBA hall of fame.

[artest 93]

You don't even know what the HoF is, so why are you co-signing. :confusedshrug: :rolleyes:

+1

[TruthKGRay3412]

+1

My two biggest fans/stalkers..How you guys doing?:cheers:

[Dbrog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za8WK9h1PnY
Skip at his finest :applause:
I agree that he could make it into the HoF.

[MiseryCityTexas]

rafer should get in for the way he changed the game, and plus there are college stars that aint do jack sh!t in the nba that made it to the hall of fame anyway. so why not rafer?

[artificial]

The first post went exactly as my thoughts. "It's a joke, not worth it. Wait, what if it's about his... oh, I get it"


The accomplishments of Rafer, that many people mentioned this far in terms of streetball certainly make this at least worth a discussion. He's been a prominent figure in the recent development of streetball, which changed it's ways in the last decade or two, mainly through and1 where skip to my lou was the motor of the transformation.

However, I'm not sure how his contributions to basketball can be "measured" in order to formally sustain an argument for his induction. The changes and his contributions have been more of a cultural thing, therefore making it really difficult to quantify what he's done.


*and at the those who kept going after getting exposed about the meaning of the hof, oh boy :oldlol:

[Real Men Wear Green]

This is the dumbest topic I've ever seen and not deleted.

[RoseCity07]

Wow now I can skip over your posts from now on.

[jamgolf]

No

[dafunkphenom]

HAHAHA!!!! Normally I get disgusted at stupid threads but I actually laughed out loud at this one.

[Dasher]

Your argument does have merit but not enough merit to get Skip into the hall. The snobs on this thread that are deriding streetball need to get a clue, pretty much every evolution in the game of basketball was invented on the street/playground level and was resisted by purists. The crossover, hook shot, reverse lay ups, behind the back passes, step back jumpers, and others were invented at the parks. They are now essential parts of the game.

[RainierBeachPoet]

so, lets talk about slamball pioneers too as possible hof-ers:party:

[bigkingsfan]

http://i26.tinypic.com/2qantlh.gif

[L.Kizzle]

This is the dumbest topic I've ever seen and not deleted.
Rafer will be Hall of Famer, mark my word.

[BankShot]

Tell that to Bob Cousy.

Classic. :cheers:

[Lebron23]

http://i26.tinypic.com/2qantlh.gif


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Da KO King]

Too many people (wrongly) have negative opinions of And1 ball and streetball (they are NOT the same thing) for Rafer to get that sort of honor.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I kind of see what you are saying, maybe he will be remembered for how he brought and1 some recognition, but I really don't think he deserves to make the Hall of Fame as a pro.

[L.Kizzle]

I kind of see what you are saying, maybe he will be remembered for how he brought and1 some recognition, but I really don't think he deserves to make the Hall of Fame as a pro.
Of course he's not making the Hall as a pro, he's probably not a top 500 player of All-Time. I'm talking about as a contributer, he had an important part in basketball, which most on this post are tryin' to deny.

[Psileas]

As far as I know, there's not a single player who mainly dominated as a streetballer and yet is a HOFer. Not Manigault, not Knowings or Kirkland or Booker or Harris. As long as they aren't, Alston won't be, either. After all, there are much more serious HOF omitions, like Gilmore and Dantley. Put them in first, then care about streetball.

[bigwebb5000]

Most of y'all are looking at this thread and probably think it's a joke, but no this is a series question. Is Rafer "Skip ti my Lue" Alston a Hall-of-Famer.


Before y'all go crazy just think about. Skip is a very important player, probably one of the most important players this past decade or so? He single handedly changed Streetball forever. Not only that, he was a highly touted college player and a (current) 9 years NBA vet.


Now he might not be player worthy, but as a contributer, I can see him making the Hall.

Don't you have to be good to be a hall of famer? The thought of rafer alston with the likes of jordan, malon, bird, magic, and others is just sickening. This is the worst post ever.

[L.Kizzle]

As far as I know, there's not a single player who mainly dominated as a streetballer and yet is a HOFer. Not Manigault, not Knowings or Kirkland or Booker or Harris. As long as they aren't, Alston won't be, either. After all, there are much more serious HOF omitions, like Gilmore and Dantley. Put them in first, then care about streetball.
No doubt those guys, Goat, Helicopter, Billy Harris, ect were better then Skip, but they didn't take streetball mainstream like Skip did. They were also drug dealers, drug addicts, ect.

Also, Gilmore and AD would be going in as players as Rafer would probably be goin' in as a contributer (I doubt he'd be considered as a player.)

[L.Kizzle]

Don't you have to be good to be a hall of famer? The thought of rafer alston with the likes of jordan, malon, bird, magic, and others is just sickening. This is the worst post ever.
To be a Hall of Fame for your playing career, of course, but Rafer wouldn't be goin' in as a player.

Some of y'all guys need to actually read up on the Hall before posting; saying the topic is dumb, he wasn't a great NBA player, ect.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Of course he's not making the Hall as a pro, he's probably not a top 500 player of All-Time. I'm talking about as a contributer, he had an important part in basketball, which most on this post are tryin' to deny.
I agree he has contributed, and deserves recognition. He is also one of the NBA's D-league success stories.

[bigwebb5000]

To be a Hall of Fame for your playing career, of course, but Rafer wouldn't be goin' in as a player.

Some of y'all guys need to actually read up on the Hall before posting; saying the topic is dumb, he wasn't a great NBA player, ect.

And1 basketball is freakin lame. Watch the youtube videos and there are 0 fundamentals. The only one they use is dribbling because they have too, and there still isn't much of that. They walk more than they dribble. This thread is pure garbage, like rafer. People who honestly believe he will be in any hall of fame should remove themselves from the gene pool,

[brandonislegend]

Lololololol Rafer To Hof Ahahahahaa

[TheHonestTruth]

No. No AND1 player should be allowed anywhere near the hall.

[L.Kizzle]

What is he leads the Magic to a title?

[Big#50]

GTFOH not even as a contributor.

[D-Rose]

Lololololol Rafer To Hof Ahahahahaa
this

:roll: :roll:

[IcanzIIravor]

http://i26.tinypic.com/2qantlh.gif
:lol

[Bush4Ever]

I don't think the "streetball movement" is a strong enough force to make much of an impact in any sense.

[GOBB]

lol I like how Rafer Alston gets credit for "streetball". You realize who else was responsible for And1 as well? You realize other street ball legends? Like seriously. Hall of Fame because of And1? Are you kidding me. What next Penny Hardaway HOF because he had the coolest doll commercials ever and it changed the game. Like really. Rafer HOF?

LKizzle off the sizzyrup L.Kizzle, fo rizzle.

[globarticles]

Sure if he wins 1 ring as a starter. Best streetballer, also won in the highest level, that's HOF worthy.

[GOBB]

Sure if he wins 1 ring as a starter. Best streetballer, also won in the highest level, that's HOF worthy.

No its not HOF worthy. How is he the best street baller????? :

[Kasper]

No its not HOF worthy. How is he the best street baller????? :

Exactly the point... he isn't even for SURE the best streetballer... actually in my opinion he aint even close. Regardless... that wouldnt get him in anyway. Not a chance.

[OneMoreSucka]

No its not HOF worthy. How is he the best street baller????? :
Best street baller in the sense that he was the only one who could make it in the NBA :confusedshrug: Obviously Ron Artest's boy in jail in Queens, you know what I'm sayin, is the best ever. But that means nothing if you don't do anything with your skills.

[GOBB]

Best street baller in the sense that he was the only one who could make it in the NBA :confusedshrug:

He wasnt the only one who made it.

[Kasper]

Best street baller in the sense that he was the only one who could make it in the NBA :confusedshrug: Obviously Ron Artest's boy in jail in Queens, you know what I'm sayin, is the best ever. But that means nothing if you don't do anything with your skills.

Telfair?

[Bush4Ever]

Telfair?

Connie Hawkins comes to mind, as he had a pretty tremendous street reputation before college and the NBA, as I recall.

[GOBB]

Lloyd Sweet Pea Daniels...he was supposed to be the next great thing.

Anyone remember him? I do. And as a talent he was much better than Rafer Alston. He was supposed to be the next best thing. But his journey was rocky. Rafer is more successful as far as NBA careers go.

[Bush4Ever]

Lloyd Sweet Pea Daniels...he was supposed to be the next great thing.

Anyone remember him? I do. And as a talent he was much better than Rafer Alston. He was supposed to be the next best thing.


According to Dean Smith, he first noticed Rick Fox as a recruit because he was able to guard Daniels. I think he had a tryout for one of the old ABA teams, or maybe the D-League last I heard.

[Kasper]

Lloyd Sweet Pea Daniels...he was supposed to be the next great thing.

Anyone remember him? I do. And as a talent he was much better than Rafer Alston. He was supposed to be the next best thing. But his journey was rocky. Rafer is more successful as far as NBA careers go.

Yeah.. Daniels.. thats who I was trying to think of. San Antonio right?

He came into the NBA with a few bullet holes if I remember correctly.

[momo]

no. 39% FG shooting through your career doesn't get you into the hall of fame.

Tell that to Bob Cousy.
Pwnd.


Does And1 have a HOF? Because he DAMN sure ain't making the NBA HOF.I cant believe people are actually thinking about this.His numbers/"accomplishments" are nowhere close near HOF worthy.He will be known as a street ball legend,thats it.

As has been said no NBA hall of fame exists. And hall or no hall, he will be remembered as more than just a street legend. He made the NBA. He may well win a ring.

~~~

I think it is a stretch, but it is a good stretch. This is not as cut and dried as it may seem at first glance. Good topic. Repped. If I had a vote, I would have to seriously consider it.

[Kasper]

Pwnd.



As has been said no NBA hall of fame exists. And hall or no hall, he will be remembered as more than just a street legend. He made the NBA. He may well win a ring.

~~~

I think it is a stretch, but it is a good stretch. This is not as cut and dried as it may seem at first glance. Good topic. Repped. If I had a vote, I would have to seriously consider it.

good thing you don't have a vote then.

[EllEffEll]

His story would be more compelling if he had come to the NBA straight from the streets. Some of you make it sound like he hadn't played any college ball.

[Kasper]

His story would be more compelling if he had come to the NBA straight from the streets. Some of you make it sound like he hadn't played any college ball.

Exactly. Not all that compelling.

And by the way... and I know you couldnt possibly care... but you are by far my favorite poster on this site.

[OneMoreSucka]

Lloyd Sweet Pea Daniels...he was supposed to be the next great thing.

Anyone remember him? I do. And as a talent he was much better than Rafer Alston. He was supposed to be the next best thing. But his journey was rocky. Rafer is more successful as far as NBA careers go.
That's what I was inferring when I said "make it in the NBA".......

[Atomic DOG]

if anybodys in the Hall for globetrotting

then i say go for it.

if not...

then i say dont.

[shawbryant]

Not in NBA.

[JustinJDW]

I'm sorry, but I can't see Rafter Alston getting in the Hall of Fame, no matter how I look at it.

[depletedW]

He started what movement?!

The movement towards U.S. Basketball players sucking because they value style over substance?

If anything, AND1 streetball has set our country back in regards to basketball talent.
:cheers:

[phoenix18]

I think that he should get into the hall of fame. He bridged the gap between two different subcultures in the same sport.

[Kasper]

I think that he should get into the hall of fame. He bridged the gap between two different subcultures in the same sport.

Explain the subcultures?

[phoenix18]

Explain the subcultures?
Streetball and the NBA.

[Kasper]

Streetball and the NBA.

I'm not for sure disagreeing with you.. but it seems like the same subculture as 21 and 5 on 5. What I'm sayin is... its 2 completely different and irrelevant sports.

[FashionIssues]

should jeff be enshrined in the HOF as having the best bball forum in the internets? that is a better possibility.

[okayabc123]

Hall of Fame for Streetball, maybe give a piece of the blacktop as the trophy or something...

but HE!! no he should ever get in for NBA.. 99% of the moves they pull in And 1 is a traveling call in NBA. Plus, check the guy's stats, he is just your average pg with handle.

Hall of Fame? Please! You have a better case for D. Fisher to go to hall of fame than Alston.

[JayGuevara]

He has a legitimate argument to make it, but in my opinion, ultimately won't. Because the majority of voters will vilify him as one of the people who brought down the basketball IQ and the fundamentals and etc etc of the current players.

Obviously, based upon that train of thinking, Jordan shouldn't have made the Hall either, because he inspired the generation to be like Mike with the highlights of the dunks and scoring binges. But, Rafer Alston would be a much easier scapegoat. And as an omission, people won't be outraged.

But yes he does have an argument.

[HylianNightmare]

street ball legend and helped popularize the streetball movement, which in turn popularized the basketball movement.
(some will say streetball is dumb, they travel all that stuff but at the end of the day basketball picked up new fans thanks to and1.)
Had a succesful pro career as he became one of first players to succesfully hop from the d-league to the big league, and is now 4 games away from getting a ring?
sounds pretty compelling

[highwhey]

interesting thread...i was about to make fun of you but i decided to read the op post and it made me think, you have a point. rafer alston has contributed to basketball, and you don't have to be an and1 fan to acknowledge this.

[Marikina]

Threads like this make me wish the Magic go back down to Earth against the Lakers, just so that we can treat with Skip with insignificance again. :rolleyes:

[G-train]

What a ridiculous thread.
No.

His streetballing was terrible basketball. He had to get rid of it all, and then he went on to have a average nba career, and he was maligned for most of it.

[cdbleb]

Based on birthday alone I say he gets in...I have the same birthday (July 24th) and without question it is the GOAT birthday which gives him the nod.

Other notable people born on July 24th: Karl Malone, Walt Belamy, Andrew Gaze, Barry Bonds, Rick Fox, J-Lo, Stat Quo, Amelia Earhardt, Torrie Wilson (WWE), John Newton (wrote the hymn "Amazing Grace"), Teagan Presley and Guage (Porn stars) :D, Steve Irwins daughter Bindi, the girl who played Matilda, Former Bears kicker Kevin Butler, Lynda Carter (Wonder Woman), Michael Richards (Kramer)...And if thats not enough its also National Tequila Day, the day Lance Armstrong won his 7th Tour De France, the day of George Bretts famous pine tar incident. Find me a better birthday and they get in too.

Between his involvement in the AND1 uprising and his birthday I say hes in...IF he gets a ring this year that also helps.

[mmsupra]

yea of the slap :lol

[truethat23]

He's a And 1 Hall of Famer; first ballot.

[Real Men Wear Green]

street ball legend and helped popularize the streetball movement, which in turn popularized the basketball movement.
(some will say streetball is dumb, they travel all that stuff but at the end of the day basketball picked up new fans thanks to and1.)
Had a succesful pro career as he became one of first players to succesfully hop from the d-league to the big league, and is now 4 games away from getting a ring?
sounds pretty compellingThe homerism is running deep.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This is the dumbest topic I've ever seen and not deleted.
This is still true, by the way.

[STelfair31]

he's a minute away from being finished, he may win some titles... He was a catalyst for the streetball movement as said earlier. It depends on where he ends up, if he plays for championship teams with other key players he'll win a few titles, whether this yr or not doesn't matter... I have a question, if he was still with the Rockets, no one would be talking about him, for Rafer to make it, I say it has a lot to do with the situation he's in and him being a point guard how he facilitates the team or teams he will be with... He is no doubt a BASKETBALL legend, maybe not NBA legend..not just yet.. I def. could foresee a movie about his story, from rags-to-riches, playing streetball, then making the what seemed impossible jump just to make it to the league, then not only to play, but start, be traded then help lead a team to the finals, if they win it, I could def. see a movie coming from it...

[GOBB]

But yes he does have an argument.

Make one. I want to see this.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Make one. I want to see this.
He was on the SLAM cover. The vast majority of players on the cover of SLAM are future Hall of Famers. Not to mention, he headlined the And1 Mixtape Tour.

What's incredible about this to me is, take Rajon Rondo (who currently has a better HOF resume than Alston, and still shouldn't be considered at all): What ballhandling tricks can Alston do that Rondo couldn't? I wouldn't be shocked to learn that 90% of NBA pgs can do all of those streetball tricks, and the other 10% only can't because they never cared to learn.

[wang4three]

Is Meadowlark in the HOF?

[crisoner]

No...but I give Skip mad props!!!!
Only Street Baller to do it big!!!!!

[Interminator]

He was on the SLAM cover. The vast majority of players on the cover of SLAM are future Hall of Famers. Not to mention, he headlined the And1 Mixtape Tour.

What's incredible about this to me is, take Rajon Rondo (who currently has a better HOF resume than Alston, and still shouldn't be considered at all): What ballhandling tricks can Alston do that Rondo couldn't? I wouldn't be shocked to learn that 90% of NBA pgs can do all of those streetball tricks, and the other 10% only can't because they never cared to learn.
I hope you arent being serious, those moves are extremely tough to learn.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I hope you arent being serious, those moves are extremely tough to learn.
Being an NBA pg is extremely tough, period, genius. I didn't say Rafer Alston had no talent. But compared to other NBA pgs? He's an average player. Years back Nick van Exel said in an interview that he had tons of tricks he just wasn't allowed to try in games by his coaches. Or take a truly elite talent, like AI, think he didn't have a million amazing moves he never displayed in an NBA game? Think again. Rafer Alston's biggest accomplishment is being a streetballer that made it to the NBA, not the other way around. Almost everyone in the NBA was a "streetballer" at some point in his life. The difference is that most didn't have the NYC hyoe machine behind them. Throw in the And1 Mixtape tour impressing small minds like yours and we have a few pour souls buying into this topic. But realistically? Rafer Alston is a great player...like all NBA players are great players...but by NBA standards? Average. Notice he normally doesn't pull any of that "streetball" stuff in the games either. Same reason you rarely saw it come out of Nick.

[Shepseskaf]

After all, there are much more serious HOF omitions, like Gilmore and Dantley. Put them in first, then care about streetball.
Dantley was inducted into the HOF in '08. Bernard King is now the best player not to be in the Hall, with Gilmore at the #2 spot.

[Clifton]

This is still true, by the way.
No it flat out isn't. Maybe one, two topics per month in the NBA forum do not bore me, and this has been one of them. It's an interesting thing to think about and can and did spark some interesting side discussion. I'm not sure what kind of topics you're looking for but topics like this to me are pretty much the best an NBA forum can possibly offer. 99.9% of topics I read through and learn absolutely nothing. This one actually threw me for a loop for a second. There are hundreds and hundreds of players better than him who'll never even be considered but you have to stretch your mind a bit for a case like his. Just how essential was he to streetball culture, and just how essential is streetball culture itself? Is it important? In a good or bad way, or does it matter, is it all just evolution?

And what if the Magic win a title this year? Alston will be a guy who replaced a team's second best player for the playoffs and proceeded to win a title in that position. What if he has a great finals series? What if he makes a very important three that nobody ever forgets a la Robert Horry? What then?

[mbell75]

:roll: :oldlol: :roll:

...and people call Laker fans homers? :rolleyes:

[Interminator]

Being an NBA pg is extremely tough, period, genius. I didn't say Rafer Alston had no talent. But compared to other NBA pgs? He's an average player. Years back Nick van Exel said in an interview that he had tons of tricks he just wasn't allowed to try in games by his coaches. Or take a truly elite talent, like AI, think he didn't have a million amazing moves he never displayed in an NBA game? Think again. Rafer Alston's biggest accomplishment is being a streetballer that made it to the NBA, not the other way around. Almost everyone in the NBA was a "streetballer" at some point in his life. The difference is that most didn't have the NYC hyoe machine behind them. Throw in the And1 Mixtape tour impressing small minds like yours and we have a few pour souls buying into this topic. But realistically? Rafer Alston is a great player...like all NBA players are great players...but by NBA standards? Average. Notice he normally doesn't pull any of that "streetball" stuff in the games either. Same reason you rarely saw it come out of Nick.
Wow you're an idiot.

Not every NBA player was a streetballer, do you even realize that streetball is basically its own sport.

Do you even realize that that form of streetball with tricks, traveling, isos, etc is exclusively found on And1 or during streetball tournaments in NYC.

Of course NBA players maybe went down to a park or the neighborhood court but the stuff you see on And1, NOBODY is pulling that **** on those courts.

There are few NBA players with actual streetball tricks/moves/etc Iverson, Van Exel, Jason Williams, Rafer, Marbury, Telfair, among few NBA players and a few others who didnt reach the NBA like God Shammgod & Kenny Satterfield.

Streetball is basically its own form of basketball, and typically those who spent most of their time playing Streetball struggle to adjust to structured offenses in the NBA.

[Interminator]

Alston should not be a HOFer, although he was the 1st basketball player to directly make it out of the And1 streetball circuit he wasn't the driving force behind it.

Im not exactly sure there is a person behind it, in terms of an individual.

But in terms of basketball, And1 and its movement should be highlighted one day at the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame.

[Bush4Ever]

Wow you're an idiot.
Streetball is basically its own form of basketball, and typically those who spent most of their time playing Streetball struggle to adjust to structured offenses.

I think you mean struggle with rule changes, like not taking 5 or 6 steps without dribbling or palming the ball for 4-5 seconds/two steps at a time.

Or maybe you meant playing against players who actually attempt to play defense.


Plenty of streetballers have gotten fair shakes at the NBA, through tryouts, the d-league, etc...virtually all have proven to be mediocre at the pro level.

Even the great Billy Harris made it to the ABA (where he did virtually nothing), after a good but hardly unprecedented college career.


Give the NBA the loose "rules" of streetball, and the majority of NBA guards could do tricks on par with streetballers. The average NBA player is INSANELY talented.

[STelfair31]

Rafer is the only streetball player to make it fully into the league.

He should be applauded

[Shepseskaf]

Lloyd Sweet Pea Daniels...he was supposed to be the next great thing.

Anyone remember him? I do. And as a talent he was much better than Rafer Alston. He was supposed to be the next best thing. But his journey was rocky. Rafer is more successful as far as NBA careers go.
I saw Sweet Pea in a HS tournament up in Harlem. Awesome, to say the least -- the complete package. He just peaked too early. He was so much better than the players in his age group, that I guess it went to his head and he never worked hard to advance his game. By the time he got to San Antonio, except in isolated incidents, he was basically marginal.

[Kasper]

Wow you're an idiot.

Not every NBA player was a streetballer, do you even realize that streetball is basically its own sport.

Do you even realize that that form of streetball with tricks, traveling, isos, etc is exclusively found on And1 or during streetball tournaments in NYC.

Of course NBA players maybe went down to a park or the neighborhood court but the stuff you see on And1, NOBODY is pulling that **** on those courts.

There are few NBA players with actual streetball tricks/moves/etc Iverson, Van Exel, Jason Williams, Rafer, Marbury, Telfair, among few NBA players and a few others who didnt reach the NBA like God Shammgod & Kenny Satterfield.

Streetball is basically its own form of basketball, and typically those who spent most of their time playing Streetball struggle to adjust to structured offenses in the NBA.

I think that most NBA point guards could do almost all the stuff from And1. How many times have you seen videos of NBA guys on the sidelines hanging around doing ridiculous things with the ball. Not even just point guards, I've seen tons of big men playing and dribbling the ball like it was attached to them.

Plus I'm sure you've seen that video of 'Sheed doing those crazy shots during practice. There are tons of NBA guys that can do unbelievable things that they never do on the court during a game. It comes with living and breathing basketball. I do agree with you that And1 is its own entity but don't you think the skills these NBA guys have could pretty easily be translated over?

The opposite can certainly not be said for most of the street ballers.

[DLeagueWannabe]

I'd vote him in

[Clifton]

Ok let me iterate a point I stumbled on in my last post, to maybe switch gears in this topic and make it a little interesting.

Imagine that this Finals series goes to 7 games. In the series Alston averages 20 points on 50% shooting and a very good a/TO ratio. At the end of game 7, in overtime, to beat the buzzer, Alston takes the inbound, takes Turk's screen, takes a three right in Kobe Bryant's face, who averaged 40ppg for the series, and swishes it. Game over. This happens in LA. D Howard wins Finals MVP because he averages something stupid like 25/15/3 and it's hard not to give it to him, but Alston has a better series than either Turk or Shard.

What does this mean? Does he make the HOF then?

[Kasper]

Speaking of streetball, anyone remember "Sole in the Hole"?

[Interminator]

Give the NBA the loose "rules" of streetball, and the majority of NBA guards could do tricks on par with streetballers. The average NBA player is INSANELY talented.
If the NBA had those rules, so would other athletic leagues down to the 5-7 basketball leagues would have to adopt those rules.

NBA players are extremely talented, but we're talking about ballhandling and dribbling while performing for a crowd.

Basketball players who have followed structured basketball since they began playing arent able to do the moves of streetballers, 1st of all because its either palming or traveling and 2nd of all they arent playing to show up their man for the crowd. Instead they learned how to effectively take their man off the dribble under context of the rules, or developed a very good crossover to create space.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcfiPc4uebI

Sorry, Gabe Pruitt isn't pulling a 360 behind the head crossover anytime soon.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No it flat out isn't. Maybe one, two topics per month in the NBA forum do not bore me, and this has been one of them. It's an interesting thing to think about and can and did spark some interesting side discussion. I'm not sure what kind of topics you're looking for but topics like this to me are pretty much the best an NBA forum can possibly offer. 99.9% of topics I read through and learn absolutely nothing. This one actually threw me for a loop for a second. There are hundreds and hundreds of players better than him who'll never even be considered but you have to stretch your mind a bit for a case like his. Just how essential was he to streetball culture, and just how essential is streetball culture itself? Is it important? In a good or bad way, or does it matter, is it all just evolution?
Well, great that this topic interests you, but it's still stupid. The Hall of Fame should be an honor given to great players with great careers. Take Aaron Brooks to the park with a camcorder and unleash him on the local talent and you'd see some of the same stuff we saw from Alston years back. Probably why the Rockets chose to send off Alston. And "streetball culture?" No, that does not make you worthy of being honored on par with players like Magic and Zeke. If Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson can't get into the Hall then everyone needs to chill out with this "Rafer Madness."


And what if the Magic win a title this year?
His HOF resume will be on par with Rondo's and I will deeply apologize.

Alston will be a guy who replaced a team's second best player for the playoffs and proceeded to win a title in that position.
As his team's 4th best player, still not ahead of Lewis or Turkoglu.

What if he has a great finals series?
Ask Cedric Maxwell.

What if he makes a very important three that nobody ever forgets a la Robert Horry? Horry shouldn't ever make the Hall either.

What then?
More stupid posts from Magic fans.

Wow you're an idiot.

Not every NBA player was a streetballer, do you even realize that streetball is basically its own sport.
If I had a book to give you to read, I'd probably just hit you in the head with it instead.

[Bush4Ever]

If the NBA had those rules, so would other athletic leagues down to the 5-7 basketball leagues would have to adopt those rules.

NBA players are extremely talented, but we're talking about ballhandling and dribbling while performing for a crowd.

Basketball players who have followed structured basketball since they began playing arent able to do the moves of streetballers, 1st of all because its either palming or traveling and 2nd of all they arent playing to show up their man for the crowd.

Sorry, Gabe Pruitt isn't pulling a 360 behind the head crossover anytime soon.

If you say so. Ball handling essentially reduces to repetition and time spent handling the basketball (Homework basketball for the win). NBA players have spent more time handling the ball under tighter and more difficult constraints (rules and defense) than streetballers.

But first, to make things more comparable, how about we actually have the streetballers play against people who actually play defense?

Even someone like Pistol Pete, who was probably the closely proxy for an extremely talented "streetballesqe" player, was a turnover machine.

[Real Men Wear Green]

NBA players are extremely talented, but we're talking about ballhandling and dribbling while performing for a crowd.
And we all know that NBA players don't play in front of crowds.

Sorry, Gabe Pruitt isn't pulling a 360 behind the head crossover anytime soon.
Who knows what he'd come up with if he had no concern for palming rules whatsoever?

[Interminator]

If you say so. Ball handling essentially reduces to repetition and time spent handling the basketball (Homework basketball for the win). NBA players have spent more time under tighter and more difficult constraints (rules and defense) than streetballers.

But first, to make things more comparable, how about we actually have the streetballers play against people who actually play defense?
It doesnt matter about streetballers playing against people who play defense.

Streetball is technically just a bunch of isos for a ballhandler to show up his man to gain cheers from the crowd before throwing the ball up for an alley oop by an impressive dunker.

Streetball is a sport, but its more of entertainment espescially for those who come to see it.

People just love crossovers, ballhandling tricks, and dunks.:confusedshrug:

[Interminator]

And we all know that NBA players don't play in front of crowds.
Im referring to playing for the crowd, by isolating his man to impress the crowd rather than just playing basketball and following the offensive gameplan.




Who knows what he'd come up with if he had no concern for palming rules whatsoever?
Sure.

[Bush4Ever]

It doesnt matter about streetballers playing against people who play defense.

Streetball is technically just a bunch of isos for a ballhandler to show up his man to gain cheers from the crowd before throwing the ball up for an alley oop by an impressive dunker.

Streetball is a sport, but its more of entertainment espescially for those who come to see it.

People just love crossovers, ballhandling tricks, and dunks.:confusedshrug:

Yeah, and there is nothing wrong with that. I like watching it myself and have even played in such games (not at Rucker, but similar places in Indy and Chicago).

But the problem comes when people extrapolate talent/skills, etc... from the street to an NBA environment, or vice versa. They are different systems, but there is no question that in terms of tricks, the rules (lack thereof) and general mindset (defense...where?) favors the streetballers.

[Clifton]

Well, great that this topic interests you, but it's still stupid. The Hall of Fame should be an honor given to great players with great careers. Take Aaron Brooks to the park with a camcorder and unleash him on the local talent and you'd see some of the same stuff we saw from Alston years back. Probably why the Rockets chose to send off Alston. And "streetball culture?" No, that does not make you worthy of being honored on par with players like Magic and Zeke. If Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson can't get into the Hall then everyone needs to chill out with this "Rafer Madness."
Since when is the HOF about "what could've happened?" The fact is Aaron Brooks matters to no one. Neither does Rajon Rondo. Rafer Alston culturally mattered outside of the league itself. Very good players are a dime a dozen. How many Elton Brands have there been in NBA history? Meanwhile, speaking beyond just what he's done on the court, how many Rafer Alstons? He represents something. He's not ordinary. For that reason this topic is interesting and worth making, even if the answer turns out to be "no he absolutely should not." I agree he should not. But that doesn't make this a dumb topic, and your calling it a dumb topic actually, like really infuriated me for a second. Because really, in the **** state this board is in with the same damn topic being made over and over, I actually found it a thought provoking stab at something that had never occurred to me before. He didn't make a topic saying "Rafter Alston is a HOFer. If you disagree with me you're wrong."

I remember a guy made a thread that was something like "Carmelo Anthony is a top 5 player" and proceeded not to make a single argument longer than 1 sentence long through several pages of posts. That's a dumb topic, not this one.

Here are some other topics on the front page:

Go to first new post If Kobe wins the title and Finals MVP,is he ranked 3rd this decade behind Duncan/Shaq (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 ... Last Page)

Go to first new post THE FLIPSIDE...Kobe fails to win another championship?

Go to first new post Kobe's Accuser Freestyle Raps

Go to first new post If Lakers win, does Kobe cement himself in the top 10? (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 ... Last Page)

Go to first new post Bandwagon Cavalier Fans (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 ... Last Page)

Go to first new post Lakers wont LOSE No way this aint 2004 or 2008 its 2009!!!!!!

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Is Rafer Alston a Hall-of-Famer?....

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/RKO_Y2J_Edge21/drunk-irish-048.gif

[wang4three]

Well after looking it up, Meadowlark Lemon is in the hall of fame. I guess if a case was made for him, one could be made for Skip.

[GOBB]

I saw Sweet Pea in a HS tournament up in Harlem. Awesome, to say the least -- the complete package. He just peaked too early. He was so much better than the players in his age group, that I guess it went to his head and he never worked hard to advance his game. By the time he got to San Antonio, except in isolated incidents, he was basically marginal.

Damn you actually saw him at his best? I always heard stories about how special of a talent he was and could have been. Really not got a chance to see or appreciate what those in the know about him saw.


Well after looking it up, Meadowlark Lemon is in the hall of fame. I guess if a case was made for him, one could be made for Skip.

You should read up on him more. Then tell me if Rafer Alston contributions to the game of basketball was significant in nature or comparison rather. I doubt you'd come back and say "yes".

[vert48]

Lloyd Sweet Pea Daniels...he was supposed to be the next great thing.

Anyone remember him? I do. And as a talent he was much better than Rafer Alston. He was supposed to be the next best thing. But his journey was rocky. Rafer is more successful as far as NBA careers go.He was going to play for Tark at UNLV, but was busted buying crack in Vegas, and was the guy that finally got Tark booted.

I remember watching him with the Lakers, and he was very methodical in how he approached the game. You could see that his game was all about figuring out how to beat the opponent, not imposing his will on them. Pretty advanced for a street baller.

[wang4three]

You should read up on him more. Then tell me if Rafer Alston contributions to the game of basketball was significant in nature or comparison rather. I doubt you'd come back and say "yes".


I guess. I mean from what I understand he was an entertainer with the basketball, which Skip is. I understand that Meadowlark has done more than Skip in terms of world tours and defining trick basketball, but end of the day I feel they're just two guys who made their names as premier entertainers rather than actual basketball players. I think it's natural for us to respect Meadowlark more because he carried himself better and had more charisma, but are they really all that different?

[GOBB]

I guess. I mean from what I understand he was an entertainer with the basketball, which Skip is. I understand that Meadowlark has done more than Skip in terms of world tours and defining trick basketball, but end of the day I feel they're just two guys who made their names as premier entertainers rather than actual basketball players. I think it's natural for us to respect Meadowlark more because he carried himself better and had more charisma, but are they really all that different?

Yes they are very different. You still havent told me what significant impact to the game of basketball Rafer Alston has had. :confusedshrug: Meadowlark made a significant impact/contribution to the game of basketball.

[Bush4Ever]

Well after looking it up, Meadowlark Lemon is in the hall of fame. I guess if a case was made for him, one could be made for Skip.

Especially in the early years, the Globetrotters were an institution and influence in a way that absolutely dwarfs today's AND1 movement.

Heck, in the 1950s, the Globetrotters BEAT the Mikan Lakers in a serious game. It was arguably where the best players were.

Even in recent times, the Globetrotters play and hang with many D1 schools in serious games.

But the real reason he is in, is because he was arguably the most active ambassador for basketball on the world stage.

His "contributions" dwarfs Alston or any AND1 player.

[thejumpa]

Rafer Alston in the HOF? I haven't read anything in the thread and don't need to. I love Skip but no, he doesn't belong in the HOF....just not good enough

[L8kersfan222]

Isn't he in the finals as the starting PG, yes he makes it.



+ b!tchslapping Eddie House and advancing

[L.Kizzle]

bump

[Disaprine]

:roll:

[MasterDurant24]

I would like to have Skip in the Hall, but it looks like the HOF doesn't want any AND1 players.

[brwnman]

I've said this in the past as well, I think Rafer Alston will be in the Hall of Fame. Whether you agree or disagree, I think he's getting in there...

[L.Kizzle]

The countdown to the Hall is on.


Don't know how long contributes have to wait, if it's the regular 5 seasons or more.

[kentatm]

The countdown to the Hall is on.


Don't know how long contributes have to wait, if it's the regular 5 seasons or more.


:facepalm


the only way he is getting in is by purchasing a ticket like the rest of us shlubs

[G-train]

He did more damage to good basketball than good.
Typical selfish brat, too much attitude, shoot/entertain first and pass/win later player.

[L.Kizzle]

Countdown to the Hall is near. I think next season he's eligible.

[IncarceratedBob]

Without Alston we don't get LeBron, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, etc. Dude changed the game forever and all the guys I mentioned list Alston as the main reason they play