Arvydas Sabonis owning David Robinson

[VCMVP1551]

Imagine if this guy came to the NBA in the 80's when he was in his prime!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ

Atleast 28, 13, 5 and 3 with good shooting numbers all around.(FG, 3P, FT)

[Poseidon]

He's not my Vydas, he's not your Vydas.....he's Arvydas Sabonis!!! :D

Totally agree with what you said. Had he played in the NBA during his prime years, he would have been a Top 5-7 center of all time! I miss Sabonis and Shaq matchups from the late 90's.

[VCMVP1551]

He's not my Vydas, he's not your Vydas.....he's Arvydas Sabonis!!! :D

Totally agree with what you said. Had he played in the NBA during his prime years, he would have been a Top 5-7 center of all time! I miss Sabonis and Shaq matchups from the late 90's.

Seriously what more could you want in a Center?

Amazing low post scorer
Well over 7 feet and strong
Very athletic
great rebounder
incredible passer
unselfish yet agressive
Great mid-range shooter and free throw shooter plus a pretty good 3 point shooter

Dominant player

[Poseidon]

Seriously what more could you want in a Center?

Amazing low post scorer
Well over 7 feet and strong
Very athletic
great rebounder
incredible passer
unselfish yet agressive
Great mid-range shooter and free throw shooter plus a pretty good 3 point shooter

Dominant player

No doubt. Even during his latter years w/ Portland....he was very effective in the low post and was regarded as the best passing big man in the league. Sabonis was one of the only centers (along with floppy Divac) that made things challenging for Shaq...mainly due to his strength and great basketball IQ.

[Showtime]

Wasn't he a roid user in his prime overseas?

[jaydacris]

his country made him do it!!

[VCMVP1551]

No doubt. Even during his latter years w/ Portland....he was very effective in the low post and was regarded as the best passing big man in the league. Sabonis was one of the only centers (along with floppy Divac) that made things challenging for Shaq...mainly due to his strength and great basketball IQ.

Yeah even in 97'-98' at 33 years old with knee and ankle problems that took nearly all of his mobility Sabonis averaged

16.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.1 bpg, 49.3 FG%, 79.8 FT%

His prime would have been scary.

As you said his basketball IQ and size(atleast as tall as Shaq and easily heavier) made him a difficult matchup for O'Neal who was unstoppable then.

[Lebron23]

One of my favorite international player of all time.

[dirkdiggler41]

He is like Rasheed Wallace with a great work ethic

[Brunch@Five]

Shaq called him the strongest player he ever played against.

[darabzarrabi]

Him and Len Bias are two players I really wish could have played in the NBA (in his prime/not passed away)

[GoldMedallist]

Seriously what more could you want in a Center?

Amazing low post scorer
Well over 7 feet and strong
Very athletic
great rebounder
incredible passer
unselfish yet agressive
Great mid-range shooter and free throw shooter plus a pretty good 3 point shooter

Dominant player

Even in his prime, he still was injured, bacause he had weak ankles, and he never moved like he could. He was exactly what you said, and a leader, their teams in Europe played knowing that with Sabonis it was impossible to lose.

He was the best skilled Center EVER, but his body couldn't let him played the best he could have done.

[FabCasablancas]

Why does David Robinson look like he's in slow motion and Sabonis looks like he's playing in real time? It's like Barkley getting owned by Dirk. lol

[FabCasablancas]

He is like Rasheed Wallace with a great work ethic

Sabonis was much much taller and stronger than Sheed.. and Sheed had nowhere near the post game or passing ability of Sabonis.. Sabonis passed liike Steve nash at the center position.

[Dwight_Howard12]

Robinson got OWNED :applause:

[PAOK]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=R88SiQPI5ck (2:13 mark)

blocks robinson twice

[GOBB]

Video didnt show me much....but its always funny when Sabonis is spoken of. Almost as if he was Wilt.

[KWALI]

Video didnt show me much....but its always funny when Sabonis is spoken of. Almost as if he was Wilt.
He is the White Wilt and his strength makes him a lot closer than most...You see how he's just too big for Robinson.

[GOBB]

He is the White Wilt and his strength makes him a lot closer than most...You see how he's just too big for Robinson.

Drob problem was always the size of bigger centers. :confusedshrug:

White Wilt? If you say so.

[KWALI]

If you heard the former euro pros I hear talk and all the stories the broken back boards the full court bounce passes the dunks carrying three guys to the rim the looking down into the rim. the scoring 20 straight points and sealing the game....Sounds like Sonny Vaccaro tellin Wilt stories to me.

Your old enough to remember 88 actually you were probably like 12...4get it

[Psileas]

His spectacular and versatile plays were both his bless and his curse. They made him one of the most enjoyable players to watch and thrilled fans everywhere (and still do so). But they shortened his prime, as well. You can't carry a 300-pound frame, yet jump and dunk on 2 guys on your back, run the court at a speed of a forward, dive to save balls, etc, without this taking a toll to your body's endurance.

Even with all his injuries, for me he's still a top-2 European player ever (him and Dirk) and there's no doubt that he could be a top-7 center ever if he was allowed to play in the NBA in the 80's and early 90's.

[GOBB]

If you heard the former euro pros I hear talk and all the stories the broken back boards the full court bounce passes the dunks carrying three guys to the rim the looking down into the rim. the scoring 20 straight points and sealing the game....Sounds like Sonny Vaccaro tellin Wilt stories to me.

Your old enough to remember 88 actually you were probably like 12...4get it

10.

I remember the talk and mystique surrounding him later on.

[steve]

His spectacular and versatile plays were both his bless and his curse. They made him one of the most enjoyable players to watch and thrilled fans everywhere (and still do so). But they shortened his prime, as well. You can't carry a 300-pound frame, yet jump and dunk on 2 guys on your back, run the court at a speed of a forward, dive to save balls, etc, without this taking a toll to your body's endurance.

Even with all his injuries, for me he's still a top-2 European player ever (him and Dirk) and there's no doubt that he could be a top-7 center ever if he was allowed to play in the NBA in the 80's and early 90's.
The same basically happened to Ralph Sampson. And trying putting Sabonis on those late 80s, you'd basically be replacing Kevin Duckworth with Sabonis. It's not out of the realm of possibility that things might have gone a little different for the Trail Blazers with him on the roster.

[VCMVP1551]

Drob problem was always the size of bigger centers. :confusedshrug:

Robinson usually was dominated by Shaq and part of that was the 60-70 pounds and little bit of height/length Shaq had on Robinson.


Better numbers than prime Shaq & Hakeem?

How is that better than prime Shaq?

In 1999-2000 Shaq averaged 30, 14, 4 and 3.

Sabonis in just 32 minutes per game when he was 33 after some awful injuries that killed his mobility and athletisism he still averaged 16.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 3 apg, 1 bpg.

So why couldn't he have put up the numbers I said if he played something like 38-40 minutes in his 20's before injuries???

[jamal99]

Yeah even in 97'-98' at 33 years old with knee and ankle problems that took nearly all of his mobility Sabonis averaged

16.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.1 bpg, 49.3 FG%, 79.8 FT%

His prime would have been scary.

As you said his basketball IQ and size(atleast as tall as Shaq and easily heavier) made him a difficult matchup for O'Neal who was unstoppable then.
He had knee problems cuz of too much bodyweight...
It's not easy for knees with that kind of pressure (300+ lbs)

[Shep]

:rolleyes: prime sabonis "owning" a 20 year old david robinson? prime sabonis "owning" a player 4 years away from playing in the nba? so we see a few dunks? this means absolutely nothing you little clown :oldlol:

Robinson usually was dominated by Shaq
:oldlol: you've been owned by this before. let me own you again:
head to head in games from '93-'98:

robinson: 28.4ppg, 12rpg, 4.7apg, 2.67spg, 2.44bpg, 2.56tpg
o'neal: 26ppg, 12.7rpg, 1.8apg, .67spg, 2bpg, 3.89tpg

..its almost as if you enjoy me owning you

[VCMVP1551]

:rolleyes: prime sabonis "owning" a 20 year old david robinson? prime sabonis "owning" a player 4 years away from playing in the nba? so we see a few dunks? this means absolutely nothing you little clown :oldlol:

:oldlol: you've been owned by this before. let me own you again:
head to head in games from '93-'98:

robinson: 28.4ppg, 12rpg, 4.7apg, 2.67spg, 2.44bpg, 2.56tpg
o'neal: 26ppg, 12.7rpg, 1.8apg, .67spg, 2bpg, 3.89tpg

..its almost as if you enjoy me owning you

You are a f*cking moron Sabonis was only 1 year older than Robinbson.

As far as Robinson vs Shaq you can't use Shaq's rookie season without going up to 00' for Robinson. Shep you've never "owned" me before in fact everytime we argue I destroy your pathetic argument so bad other people even come in the thread and tell you that.

From Shaq's second season through the 99'-00' season

Shaq- 28.1 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 1.9 apg, 2.5 bpg
David Robinson- 21.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.9 bpg

lmao the more you post in my thread sthe more you will get owned Shep.

Shaq>>>Robinson

Maybe Robinson could have been better if he wasn't allergic to the low post. BTW Sabonis was only 21 when he owned 20 year old Robinson so that is almost no difference.

[TheHonestTruth]

Imagine if this guy came to the NBA in the 80's when he was in his prime!



If he did, he would've been the GOAT center for sure.

[eliteballer]

vcmvp you CLEARLY never saw prime D-Rob so quit talking like you did. Go research the heights of some nbdlers for us, using pictures:oldlol:

[Shep]

You are a f*cking moron Sabonis was only 1 year older than Robinbson.
:oldlol: what a ****in loser. robinson didn't start playing basketball until he got to college, and was four years away from playing it professionally, sabonis had been playing his whole life and was in his prime.

As far as Robinson vs Shaq you can't use Shaq's rookie season without going up to 00' for Robinson.
pathetic. shaq's rookie season was one of his best years in the nba, and he was already a superstar, robinson's prime was over after '98, and he was no longer a superstar. compare years at superstar status and shaq gets owned.

Shep you've never "owned" me before
wow, you've got a short memory

in fact everytime we argue I destroy your pathetic argument so bad other people even come in the thread and tell you that.
:oldlol: @ the word destroy. i've told you before that i've destroyed you, now you're in here using the same word i used against me? what is this? 1st grade? and nobody who knows anything about the game of basketball has ever backed you against me.

From Shaq's second season through the 99'-00' season

Shaq- 28.1 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 1.9 apg, 2.5 bpg
David Robinson- 21.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.9 bpg

argument has already been destroyed

lmao the more you post in my thread sthe more you will get owned Shep.
:oldlol: keep telling yourself that mommas boy

Shaq>>>Robinson
destroyed

Maybe Robinson could have been better if he wasn't allergic to the low post.
maybe shaq could've been better if he had a better work ethic?

BTW Sabonis was only 21 when he owned 20 year old Robinson so that is almost no difference.
argument has already been destroyed

vcmvp you CLEARLY never saw prime D-Rob so quit talking like you did.
nevermind him, he wasn't even born when robinson was in his prime

[VCMVP1551]

vcmvp you CLEARLY never saw prime D-Rob so quit talking like you did. Go research the heights of some nbdlers for us, using pictures:oldlol:

Hey I remember you. You are the retard who said Kobe was the first option on the 01' and 02' Laker title teams. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I doubt even that retard Shep would agree with that.

And yes I did watch Robinson in his prime. Go jack off to Kobe and pretend Bryant won a title as a first option.


:oldlol: what a ****in loser. robinson didn't start playing basketball until he got to college, and was four years away from playing it professionally, sabonis had been playing his whole life and was in his prime.




pathetic. shaq's rookie season was one of his best years in the nba, and he was already a superstar, robinson's prime was over after '98, and he was no longer a superstar. compare years at superstar status and shaq gets owned.

lmao Shaq's rookie season one of his best????? Stop just looking at stats you f*cking retard. As far as Robinson not being a superstar that is funny I remember you saying he was one of the best players in 99'. So which is it? Shaq was only 20 and had almost no NBA experience while Robinson was already 26 and in his prime. Shaq's true prime really started under Phil Jackson and Shaq will tell you that himself. He understood the game better and became a much smarter player.


:oldlol: @ the word destroy. i've told you before that i've destroyed you, now you're in here using the same word i used against me? what is this? 1st grade? and nobody who knows anything about the game of basketball has ever backed you against me.

Besides EliteBaller who is a complete moron who said Kobe was the best player on the 01' and 02' Lakers teams has backed you period and you didn't invent the word destroyed you retard.




destroyed

Then why does EVERY nba expert rank Shaq ahead of Robinson and Hakeem ahead of Robinson???

Alright I'll keep telling myself that and every single NBA expert will keep agreeing with me. :applause:


maybe shaq could've been better if he had a better work ethic?

Maybe thats true. Atleast he wasn't allergic to the low post though and ended up having 20 times the career David Robinson did.

nevermind him, he wasn't even born when robinson was in his prime[/QUOTE]

I'll be 21 in 3 months. By the looks of that Fred Durst wannabe picture you posted I doubt you are much older than me.

[Shep]

lmao Shaq's rookie season one of his best????? Stop just looking at stats you f*cking retard.
stats is only a part of how i judge a players impact/rank. shaq was a top 4 center, and a top 6 overall player in '93, played the most games he ever had, and rebounded and blocked better than he ever did. this season should definately be taken into consideration when comparing players in their respective primes.

As far as Robinson not being a superstar that is funny I remember you saying he was one of the best players in 99'.
he was. top 7 infact, but no longer a superstar.

So which is it? Shaq was only 20 and had almost no NBA experience while Robinson was already 26 and in his prime.
both players were supertars. this is when you compare players, not when one is old and averaging 15ppg, and the other is averaging 30ppg at his peak

Shaq's true prime really started under Phil Jackson and Shaq will tell you that himself.
so shaq's prime lasted only 3 years? :oldlol: thats pathetic. shaq was a superstar every year up until '06..its just that he was swept out of the playoffs almost every year until phil took over.

He understood the game better and became a much smarter player
he finally realised that he has had a championship caliber supporting cast throughout his career and that he better make the most of it before his time runs out?

Besides EliteBaller who is a complete moron who said Kobe was the best player on the 01' and 02' Lakers teams has backed you period and you didn't invent the word destroyed you retard.
until you are able to type a coherent sentence you are not allowed to call people retards. who has backed you besides your bff lebron23? :oldlol: . no, i didn't invent the word, but it did tell you that i destroyed your argument, then you come and tell me that you destroyed my argument..how pathetic is that?

Then why does EVERY nba expert rank Shaq ahead of Robinson and Hakeem ahead of Robinson???
every nba expert? i wasn't aware you surveyed every expert thats ever analysed the history of the game with regards to great centers. :sleeping

Maybe thats true. Atleast he wasn't allergic to the low post though and ended up having 20 times the career David Robinson did.
shaq had 20 times the career david robinson had? so shaq was the best defender in the game on 50 different occasions? what about being the best player in the game 100 different years?:oldlol:

I'll be 21 in 3 months. By the looks of that Fred Durst wannabe picture you posted I doubt you are much older than me.
:oldlol: where's the resemblance besides a red cap? post your pic if you're going to pass judgement. what do you have planned for your 21st? a picnic with your mom?

[VCMVP1551]

stats is only a part of how i judge a players impact/rank. shaq was a top 4 center, and a top 6 overall player in '93, played the most games he ever had, and rebounded and blocked better than he ever did. this season should definately be taken into consideration when comparing players in their respective primes.

No it shouldn't Shaq was a far more effective leader and team player from his second season until the 04'-05' season. Shaq's real prime started after Robinson's. Shaq's true prime was with the 3peat lakers just like Robinson's was from about 91' or 92' to 95'.


he was. top 7 infact, but no longer a superstar.

You are such an idiot you act like your rankings are the official rankings for the players every season.


both players were supertars. this is when you compare players, not when one is old and averaging 15ppg, and the other is averaging 30ppg at his peak

Robinson was still averaging 17 or 18 ppg in 1999-2000 and still nearly 10 rpg while playing excellent defense and he could ahve easily averaged over 20-22 per game if he didn't defer to Duncan. If you don't find the comparison at that point fair fine but don't use Shaq's first year in the league either because he was still learning the NBA while Robinson was established and widely considered one of the top 3-5 players in the league.


so shaq's prime lasted only 3 years? :oldlol: thats pathetic. shaq was a superstar every year up until '06..its just that he was swept out of the playoffs almost every year until phil took over

Shaq's true prime yes. Phil made Shaq a much smarter and more mature player.


he finally realised that he has had a championship caliber supporting cast throughout his career and that he better make the most of it before his time runs out?

No he learned how to use it just like Jordan did at a similar age. Shaq improved his passing a lot over time and learned how to truly make his teammates better later in his career. He did that to some extent with the Magic but not as much until the 3peat era.


until you are able to type a coherent sentence you are not allowed to call people retards. who has backed you besides your bff lebron23? :oldlol: . no, i didn't invent the word, but it did tell you that i destroyed your argument, then you come and tell me that you destroyed my argument..how pathetic is that?

Go check the Robinson vs Hakeem and Shaq threads to see who else backed me.


every nba expert? i wasn't aware you surveyed every expert thats ever analysed the history of the game with regards to great centers. :sleeping

I've heard many experts rank the top 5 centers and all of them seem to rank Shaq over Robinson. The more knowledgeable posters on the board like KBlaze do too.


shaq had 20 times the career david robinson had? so shaq was the best defender in the game on 50 different occasions? what about being the best player in the game 100 different years?:oldlol:

Robinson was never truly the best player in the league if you include the playoffs. He had a better 94'-95' regular season than Hakeem but Shaq took the crown back in the playoffs.

Shaq was the best player in 99'-00', 00'-01', 01'-02' and 04'-05'. Robinson never was. Shaq won 2 scoring titles compared to Robinson's one, more all NBA first teams and All NBA period, twice as many titles, 3 titles as the best player and 3 finals MVP's...Robinson has NEVER done that. Better career stats too. Yeah that's a much better career.


what do you have planned for your 21st? a picnic with your mom?

Nah I don't want to spend my 21st birthday like you did.

[steve]

Okay, just to set a few things straight, Robinson was three years away from playing in the NBA but he was 20 (possibly 21 depending on exactly when the 86 World Championship was played). Sabonis was 22, there's a two year age difference there, so neither player could be considered in his basketball prime. Guy that thought Robinson didn't start playing until college is just dead wrong, he wasn't very highly recruited in high school because in high school he was a decent wing player (playing at 6'7"), but he grew to 7'1" at the Naval Academy and was able to transfer is good skills as a wing player against players who weren't as coordinated. And he was only three years away from playing in the NBA only because he had to serve two years in the Navy (he was drafted a summer after this video took place).

[L.Kizzle]

G Drexler
G Porter
C Sabonis
F Kearsey
F Williams

C Kev Duckworth
F Cliff Robinson


****

[SoCalMike]

Imagine if this guy came to the NBA in the 80's when he was in his prime!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ

Atleast 28, 13, 5 and 3 with good shooting numbers all around.(FG, 3P, FT)

There have been arguments here about this subject in the past... I for one, think he would have been one of the best centers ever to play in the NBA if he was able to play starting his career in the NBA.


:pimp:

[VCMVP1551]

Guy that thought Robinson didn't start playing until college is just dead wrong, he wasn't very highly recruited in high school because in high school he was a decent wing player (playing at 6'7"), but he grew to 7'1" at the Naval Academy and was able to transfer is good skills as a wing player against players who weren't as coordinated.

Yeah and while growing 5 inches to 7'0" made him an interesting player dominant low post big men are much more effective like Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem.



And he was only three years away from playing in the NBA only because he had to serve two years in the Navy (he was drafted a summer after this video took place).

lmao Shep didn't even remember Robinson was drafted in 87'.

[Shep]

No it shouldn't Shaq was a far more effective leader and team player from his second season until the 04'-05' season. Shaq's real prime started after Robinson's. Shaq's true prime was with the 3peat lakers just like Robinson's was from about 91' or 92' to 95'.
prime doesn't last 2 or 3 years. prime is 7 or 8 years. shaq only had 5 better seasons than his '93 season. shaq's time as a superstar lasted from '93 up until '05. robinson's time as a superstar lasted from '90 up until '98. both were top players in the nba from '93-'99. if you want to add '99 to the comparison i'm up for it..but robinson was no longer a superstar, and robinson still wins the head to head with this season included

you act like your rankings are the official rankings for the players every season.
are you actually saying my rankings aren't the official rankings? **** you're beyond repair.

Robinson was still averaging 17 or 18 ppg in 1999-2000 and still nearly 10 rpg while playing excellent defense and he could ahve easily averaged over 20-22 per game if he didn't defer to Duncan.
compared to his line of 30/11/5/1.7/3.3 in his prime? like i said: no longer a superstar, no longer up for comparison

If you don't find the comparison at that point fair fine but don't use Shaq's first year in the league either because he was still learning the NBA while Robinson was established and widely considered one of the top 3-5 players in the league.
shaq was a better rebounder and shot blocker in his rookie season than he was at any point after that year and you're saying take his rookie season out because he is averaging 5 less ppg than shaq in the lakers? laughable.

No he learned how to use it just like Jordan did at a similar age. Shaq improved his passing a lot over time and learned how to truly make his teammates better later in his career. He did that to some extent with the Magic but not as much until the 3peat era.
he didn't make anyone on that lakers team better like he did in orlando. the fact that he had the best 2 guard in the nba didn't hurt either.

Go check the Robinson vs Hakeem and Shaq threads to see who else backed me.
were they all students of the game, or were they bums like your bff lebron23

I've heard many experts rank the top 5 centers and all of them seem to rank Shaq over Robinson. The more knowledgeable posters on the board like KBlaze do too.
these people are obviously not knowledgeable enough. kblaze should stick to making youtube videos if he ranks shaq ahead of robinson.

Robinson was never truly the best player in the league if you include the playoffs. He had a better 94'-95' regular season than Hakeem but Shaq took the crown back in the playoffs.
'91, '92, '94, '95, '96. the only players in nba history who had more years as the best player in the nba are kareem abdul-jabbar, and wilt chamberlain.

Shaq was the best player in 99'-00', 00'-01', 01'-02' and 04'-05'.
:oldlol: shaq was the best player in '97, '98, '00, and '01. robinson wins by 1 year.

Robinson never was
destroyed

Shaq won 2 scoring titles compared to Robinson's one, more all NBA first teams and All NBA period, twice as many titles, 3 titles as the best player and 3 finals MVP's...Robinson has NEVER done that. Better career stats too. Yeah that's a much better career.
robinson was a much better defender, and more or less the same on offense, except he had more than the 1 move (back down, back down, turn and dunk). he deserved the same number of mvp's shaq deserved (2). he deserved 5 all nba first team selections with tough competition, shaq got his first team selections when all the great centers were past their prime or retired. robinson was the better passer, while without superstar teammates o'neal would've never had a chance to be finals mvp, and we all know shaq has always had superstar teammates from penny, to kobe, to wade. robinson had the better career.

Nah I don't want to spend my 21st birthday like you did.
yes you do, but you need friends to do that. since you don't have any (besides lebron23), you'll have to settle for a picnic with mom.

[VCMVP1551]

prime doesn't last 2 or 3 years. prime is 7 or 8 years. shaq only had 5 better seasons than his '93 season. shaq's time as a superstar lasted from '93 up until '05. robinson's time as a superstar lasted from '90 up until '98. both were top players in the nba from '93-'99. if you want to add '99 to the comparison i'm up for it..but robinson was no longer a superstar, and robinson still wins the head to head with this season included

Shaq's seasons better than his rookie year.

1993-1994
1994-1995
1999-2000
2000-2001
2001-2002
2002-2003
2004-2005

BTW Robinson's 99'-00' season from an individual standpoint was better than his 98'-99'. I think 1999-2000 was the season Duncan got injured and the Spurs lost to the Suns so it's not fair to use the 99' championship over his 99'-00' season.


are you actually saying my rankings aren't the official rankings? **** you're beyond repair.

:roll:


compared to his line of 30/11/5/1.7/3.3 in his prime? like i said: no longer a superstar, no longer up for comparison

It's not just them as superstars. Shaq's first season was a learning experience so you can't use that against an established David Robinson.


shaq was a better rebounder and shot blocker in his rookie season than he was at any point after that year and you're saying take his rookie season out because he is averaging 5 less ppg than shaq in the lakers? laughable.

Not only that but look at his assists and that wasn't his best rebounding year if you go by league averages. Rebounds were up in 92'-93' and his 99'-00' was higher compared to league averages. Also I am not talking about stats. Jordan had better numbers in his rookie season than he did in 97'-98' but are you really going to tell me that version of Jordan was comparable to the 97'-98' version? Shaq didn't have the intangibles/intelligence in his rookie year to face an elite center. It's not unusual because he was only 20. And if Shaq was so close to his prime in 92'-93' then why did he miss the playoffs? Look at the difference between Shaq's head to head numbers vs Robinson in 92'-93' and then 93'-94' and you will see what I'm talking about.


he didn't make anyone on that lakers team better like he did in orlando. the fact that he had the best 2 guard in the nba didn't hurt either.

First of all it's debatable if Bryant was the best SG in 1999-2000 or 2000-2001. Second of all in 2000 Shaq talked about how Phil Jackson helped him learn how to make his teammates better.


were they all students of the game, or were they bums like your bff lebron23

Tell me for yourself. Go check the thread.


these people are obviously not knowledgeable enough. kblaze should stick to making youtube videos if he ranks shaq ahead of robinson.

No actually he is one of the most respected posters here and has great knowledge of the game which is also why he ranked Hakeem over Robinson too.


'91, '92, '94, '95, '96. the only players in nba history who had more years as the best player in the nba are kareem abdul-jabbar, and wilt chamberlain.

LMFAO

91'-Jordan
92'Jordan
94'Hakeem(The Man with that trophy at the end of the year)
95'(The Man who embarrassed Robinson)
96'Jordan(The man who led the Bulls to a record 72 wins, averaged 30.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.3 apg, 2.2 spg, 49.5 FG%, 42.7 3P%, 83.7 FT% and the man who won the Finals MVP)

Did you seriously just rank 95'-96' Robinson over 95'-96' Jordan????

:roll:


:oldlol: shaq was the best player in '97, '98, '00, and '01. robinson wins by 1 year.

Shaq wasn't best in 97' or 98'..... that would be Jordan. He was best 00', 01', 02' and 05'. He wins 4-0 over Robinson.


destroyed

What??? :oldlol:


robinson was a much better defender, and more or less the same on offense, except he had more than the 1 move (back down, back down, turn and dunk).

Shaq had superior low post moves and footwork. Robinson couldn't dominate in the low post and relied on his face the basket game so as a result he never led a team to a title as the best player. Also aside from 93'-94' when Robinson had pretty much the same as Shaq's career high Robinson never even averaged over 28 ppg. Shaq did that 5 times and averaged over 29 3 times


he deserved the same number of mvp's shaq deserved (2).

Considering it's a regular season award yes Robinson did deserve the award he got in 95' but Shaq deserved 3(99', 01' and 05').


robinson was the better passer

:oldlol: What are you basing that on...assist numbers one year??? It's easier to get assists when you are in the high post and facing the basket which is why Kevin Garnett got so many more assists than any other big man aside from Wilt. Besides 93'-94' he only topped 3 apg twice.


while without superstar teammates o'neal would've never had a chance to be finals mvp, and we all know shaq has always had superstar teammates from penny, to kobe, to wade. robinson had the better career.

LMAO. Shaq without Kobe in 1999-2000 and 2000-2001 combined(23-7). Yeah Shaq sure struggled with Kobe...loser.


yes you do, but you need friends to do that. since you don't have any (besides lebron23), you'll have to settle for a picnic with mom.

lmao your "friends" stopped like you after Limp Bizkit fell off the billboard charts and MTV nearly 10 years ago. That was obviously before your 23rd birthday

Man owning you gets easier and easier.

[VCMVP1551]

Shaq>>>Robinson... Please no more.

I'm sorry Shep always follows me to threads and starts this so I respond and destroy his bias arguments. It's not unusual.

[Shep]

Shaq's seasons better than his rookie year.
1994, 1995, 2001, 2000. heh, turns out he only had 4 season better than his rookie year

BTW Robinson's 99'-00' season from an individual standpoint was better than his 98'-99'.
wow. his '99 was clearly better. second best player on the best team in the nba, top 7 overall compared to top 12 overall, was better in every statistic besides points (in less minutes), missed only 1 game, better per, better defender, and the list goes on and on

:roll:
:oldlol:

It's not just them as superstars. Shaq's first season was a learning experience so you can't use that against an established David Robinson.
i can, and i did.

Not only that but look at his assists and that wasn't his best rebounding year if you go by league averages. Rebounds were up in 92'-93' and his 99'-00' was higher compared to league averages.
what a ****in nobody. just because a few people averaged more rebounds in '93 discredits his 13.9 average? **** off. his rebound % was the highest its ever been, and the rebound per point differential in '93 was higher hence more valuable in '93 than it was in '00 you little ***** :oldlol:

Also I am not talking about stats.
what? i thought stats were all you talked about..and you aren't even good at that

Jordan had better numbers in his rookie season than he did in 97'-98' but are you really going to tell me that version of Jordan was comparable to the 97'-98' version? Shaq didn't have the intangibles/intelligence in his rookie year to face an elite center. It's not unusual because he was only 20. And if Shaq was so close to his prime in 92'-93' then why did he miss the playoffs?
too easy - because penny hardaway didn't arive until '94. i'm not saying shaq was better in '93 than he was in the proceeding years, i'm saying that he was instantly a superstar, and he had a better season due to his ability to play regularly and not get injured.

Look at the difference between Shaq's head to head numbers vs Robinson in 92'-93' and then 93'-94' and you will see what I'm talking about.
robinson owning o'neal in head to heads '94:

robinson: 29.5ppg, 12rpg, 8.5apg, 3.5spg, 4bpg, 3.5tpg
o'neal: 26.5ppg, 15rpg, 1.5apg, 1spg, 1.5bpg, 2.5tpg

owned again

First of all it's debatable if Bryant was the best SG in 1999-2000 or 2000-2001.
bryant was easily the best shooting guard in '00, no contest. ai was the best sg in '01 but kobe was still top 6 overall

Second of all in 2000 Shaq talked about how Phil Jackson helped him learn how to make his teammates better.
you don't need to quote shaq, just watch old orlando tapes and you'll know what i'm talking about

Tell me for yourself. Go check the thread.
i remember it vividly. me owning you time after time, nobody of any relevance backing you up.

No actually he is one of the most respected posters here and has great knowledge of the game which is also why he ranked Hakeem over Robinson too.
wow, thats an oxymoron if i've ever seen one.

91'-Jordan
92'Jordan
94'Hakeem(The Man with that trophy at the end of the year)
95'(The Man who embarrassed Robinson)
96'Jordan(The man who led the Bulls to a record 72 wins, averaged 30.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.3 apg, 2.2 spg, 49.5 FG%, 42.7 3P%, 83.7 FT% and the man who won the Finals MVP)
actually
'91 (the "'" goes before the year, dumbass :D ) robinson
'92 robinson
'94 robinson
95 robinson
96 robinson

Did you seriously just rank 95'-96' Robinson over 95'-96' Jordan????
robinson had unmatched production, was the best defender in the league, led his team to 59 wins with avery johnson as the second best player, was 5th in ppg, 2nd in rpg, and 3rd in bpg. definately the best player in the game.

Shaq wasn't best in 97' or 98'..... that would be Jordan.
nah, shaq was the best in '97 and '98.

He was best 00', 01', 02' and 05'. He wins 4-0 over Robinson.
third in '02, not even top six in '05 and loses 5-4.

What???
destroyed

Shaq had superior low post moves and footwork. Robinson couldn't dominate in the low post and relied on his face the basket game so as a result he never led a team to a title as the best player.
:oldlol: robinson never won a title because he didn't eat cheeseburgers and back down his man until he was under the hoop :roll: . robinson never had penny hardaway, kobe bryant, or dwyane wade, he had avery johnson - which is why he never won a title as the best player.

Also aside from 93'-94' when Robinson had pretty much the same as Shaq's career high Robinson never even averaged over 28 ppg. Shaq did that 5 times and averaged over 29 3 times
from ages 24 to 32 robinson averaged 25.1 compared to shaq's 26.5. so shaq scored a whole 1.4 more ppg while having 1 main move. he sure dominated robinson in the scoring department :rolleyes:

Considering it's a regular season award yes Robinson did deserve the award he got in 95' but Shaq deserved 3(99', 01' and 05').
shaq only deserved '00 and '01.

What are you basing that on...assist numbers one year??? It's easier to get assists when you are in the high post and facing the basket which is why Kevin Garnett got so many more assists than any other big man aside from Wilt. Besides 93'-94' he only topped 3 apg twice.
i'm basing it on games i've watched. robinson also never had outside shooters to the caliber that o'neal had, making it much harder to dish..not to mention the added defensive pressure that came along with it.

LMAO. Shaq without Kobe in 1999-2000 and 2000-2001 combined(23-7). Yeah Shaq sure struggled with Kobe...loser.
:cry: you mean without kobe? hmm, that failed 4th grade english exam is coming back to bite you now huh.
23-7 is not enough sample space. you need an entire year without kobe to know what he is capable of, and there is no way in hell he is winning any championship without kobe.

lmao your "friends" stopped like you after Limp Bizkit fell off the billboard charts and MTV nearly 10 years ago.
first things first: learn how to type coherent sentences. and now for the fun bit: :oldlol: you actually know when limp bizkit fell off? you actually watch mtv? you actually suck harder than i ever thought

Man owning you gets easier and easier.
:oldlol: oh the irony

[VCMVP1551]

1994, 1995, 2001, 2000. heh, turns out he only had 4 season better than his rookie year

"heh"??? who the f*ck says heh??? lmao and you are a retard if you don't think Shaq's 2002,2003 and 2005 seasons were better than his rookie year.

O'Neal averaged 27.2 in the 2002 regular season on a 58 win team and then 36.3 ppg in the Finals to seal the 3rd straight title. O'Neal put up 27.5 ppg, 3.1 apg on a 52 win team in 2002-2003 and he turned a 42-40 Miami team into a 59 win team that made it to the ECF despite losing 2 key players(butler and Odom). O'Neal also averaged 23 and 11 on 60% shooting in just 33 or 34 mpg.


wow. his '99 was clearly better. second best player on the best team in the nba, top 7 overall compared to top 12 overall, was better in every statistic besides points (in less minutes), missed only 1 game, better per, better defender, and the list goes on and on

Stop acting like your rankings are official. David's numbers were pretty much the same except for scoring which rose from 15.8 ppg to 17.8 and that was over 80 games. You could make a case for either year. 99'-00' Robinson was more efficient averaging 51.2 FG% and 72.6 FT% compared to 50.9 FG% and 65.8 FT%.


what a ****in nobody. just because a few people averaged more rebounds in '93 discredits his 13.9 average? **** off. his rebound % was the highest its ever been, and the rebound per point differential in '93 was higher hence more valuable in '93 than it was in '00 you little ***** :oldlol:

League averages are important when comparing rebound numbers. I suppose you think Wilt would have averaged 27 rpg in the 90's too.

too easy - because penny hardaway didn't arive until '94. i'm not saying shaq was better in '93 than he was in the proceeding years, i'm saying that he was instantly a superstar, and he had a better season due to his ability to play regularly and not get injured.

robinson owning o'neal in head to heads '94:


robinson: 29.5ppg, 12rpg, 8.5apg, 3.5spg, 4bpg, 3.5tpg
o'neal: 26.5ppg, 15rpg, 1.5apg, 1spg, 1.5bpg, 2.5tpg

owned again

I never meant O'Neal was better in 93'-94' I meant compare the difference there to the difference in 92'-93'. O'Neal made big improvements from his rookie season to his Sophomore season in the head to head meetings proving how much better a player he was in his sophomore year than in his rookie year. You understand now. O'Neal didn't even average 20 ppg head to head with Robinson in 92'-93' but then averaged 26.5 the following year. He was still improving as a player and learning how to play against other legit 7 foot quality centers.

O'Neal vs Robinson 94'-95'
Shaq- 32.0 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 1.5 apg, 0.5 bpg
David- 29.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 1.0 apg, 3.0 bpg

O'Neal had gotten experience his first 2 years and now the matchup was a bit more fair although I have no problem with you using the 93'-94' season for head to head stats



bryant was easily the best shooting guard in '00, no contest. ai was the best sg in '01 but kobe was still top 6 overall

Vince Carter was a better individual player than Bryant in 99'-00' Kobe was just lucky to be playing with the best player in the league. I'd rank Iverson and arguably Carter over Bryant in 00'-01'.


you don't need to quote shaq, just watch old orlando tapes and you'll know what i'm talking about

I use to watch Shaq back then I know what I'm talking about(actually a bigger Penny fan at the time.)


i remember it vividly. me owning you time after time, nobody of any relevance backing you up.

So by your logic anyone who disagrees with you is not relevant?


actually
'91 (the "'" goes before the year, dumbass :D ) robinson
'92 robinson
'94 robinson
95 robinson
96 robinson

:roll: :roll: :roll:

thanks for the laugh


robinson had unmatched production, was the best defender in the league, led his team to 59 wins with avery johnson as the second best player, was 5th in ppg, 2nd in rpg, and 3rd in bpg. definately the best player in the game.

You are forgetting about Sean Elliot and Dennis Rodman numbnuts


third in '02, not even top six in '05 and loses 5-4.

Amuse me who was better in 02' and 05'(counting the playoffs)


destroyed

That always makes me laugh


:oldlol: robinson never won a title because he didn't eat cheeseburgers and back down his man until he was under the hoop :roll: . robinson never had penny hardaway, kobe bryant, or dwyane wade, he had avery johnson - which is why he never won a title as the best player.

Translation David Robinson never won a title as the best player because he was a p*ssy who was allergic to the low post and didn't know how to lead a well balanced supporting cast including a 20 ppg, a 9 apg pg and a 16 rpg, 2 time dpoy, 5 time champion PF.


from ages 24 to 32 robinson averaged 25.1 compared to shaq's 26.5. so shaq scored a whole 1.4 more ppg while having 1 main move. he sure dominated robinson in the scoring department :rolleyes:

I'm not just talking head to head. That would account for what 10-12 games. Shaq had 3 seasons over 29 ppg and 5 over 28 ppg. Robinson had 1 of each.


i'm basing it on games i've watched. robinson also never had outside shooters to the caliber that o'neal had, making it much harder to dish..not to mention the added defensive pressure that came along with it.

I'll agree O'Neal had better outside shooters in fact there is no doubt about that but Robinson played with better defenders and a pure PG(O'Neal didn't).


23-7 is not enough sample space. you need an entire year without kobe to know what he is capable of, and there is no way in hell he is winning any championship without kobe.

You are basing that on nothing I however am basing that on a 23-7 record. :rockon:


first things first: learn how to type coherent sentences. and now for the fun bit: :oldlol: you actually know when limp bizkit fell off? you actually watch mtv? you actually suck harder than i ever thought

I hate MTV actually and I've already said I'm a fan of classic metal not mainstream music however I remember about the time Limp Bizkit fell off for 2 reasons.

1.Just flipping through the channels you'd see them
2.One of my favorite guitar players use to yell "Limp Bizkit sucks dick" at all of his live shows when they were popular

[Beasley30]

wow Shep got owned but Beasley>>everyone.

[Shep]

"heh"??? who the f*ck says heh???
heh

lmao and you are a retard if you don't think Shaq's 2002,2003 and 2005 seasons were better than his rookie year.
he missed too many games during those years (toe injuries and the like)to qualify as better years than his rookie season, and you don't get to call people retards if you can't type coherent sentences

O'Neal averaged 27.2 in the 2002 regular season on a 58 win team and then 36.3 ppg in the Finals to seal the 3rd straight title. O'Neal put up 27.5 ppg, 3.1 apg on a 52 win team in 2002-2003 and he turned a 42-40 Miami team into a 59 win team that made it to the ECF despite losing 2 key players(butler and Odom). O'Neal also averaged 23 and 11 on 60% shooting in just 33 or 34 mpg.
shaq missed just 1 game in '93 compared to 15 missed games in both '02, and '03, and 9 missed games in '05. he also single handidly improved the magic by 20 games without a superstar teammate, and was the second best rebounder, and shot blocker in the game.

in just 33 or 34 mpg.
lol look at you. in just 33 or 34 minutes per game? are you actually acting as if you're coming up with all these numbers through your memory rather than copying them off basketball-reference.com? what a ****in nobody. you get more pathetic by the post :oldlol:

Stop acting like your rankings are official.
are you actually saying my rankings aren't the official rankings? **** you're beyond repair.

David's numbers were pretty much the same except for scoring which rose from 15.8 ppg to 17.8 and that was over 80 games. You could make a case for either year.
wrong. its not close, he was easily better in '99. second best player on the best team in the nba, top 7 overall compared to top 12 overall, was better in every statistic besides points (in less minutes), missed only 1 game, better per, better defender, and the list goes on and on. the game was also played at a slower pace in '99 which is another reason why his '99 was more impressive.

League averages are important when comparing rebound numbers. I suppose you think Wilt would have averaged 27 rpg in the 90's too.
you're a loser, and a pale one at that. i've already destroyed this..if you compare pace, rebound %, and rebound:point differential you will descover that his '93 season was his best rebounding season ever. its a damn fact.

I never meant O'Neal was better in 93'-94' I meant compare the difference there to the difference in 92'-93'. O'Neal made big improvements from his rookie season to his Sophomore season in the head to head meetings proving how much better a player he was in his sophomore year than in his rookie year. You understand now.
who cares? he was owned in '94, just like he was owned in '93. just like '95, '96, and '98.

O'Neal vs Robinson 94'-95'
Shaq- 32.0 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 1.5 apg, 0.5 bpg
David- 29.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 1.0 apg, 3.0 bpg

yes, lets leave out turnovers and steals because shaq loses in both categories. regardless shaq gets outplayed again.

Vince Carter was a better individual player than Bryant in 99'-00' Kobe was just lucky to be playing with the best player in the league.
kobe was a better individual, and a better team player. though carter had slightly better stats, kobe was a much better defender, better rebounder, and better passer, and won more games.

I'd rank Iverson and arguably Carter over Bryant in 00'-01'.
i've already said iverson was better in '01. carter was closer to bryant in '01 than he was in '00, but kobe was still better.

I use to watch Shaq back then I know what I'm talking about(actually a bigger Penny fan at the time.)
obviously you don't know enough

So by your logic anyone who disagrees with you is not relevant?

not at all, its just an unfortunate (for the people concerned) coincident that it happens often :D

thanks for the laugh
:oldlol:

You are forgetting about Sean Elliot and Dennis Rodman numbnuts

elliott was nowhere near johnson, and rodman was on the bulls "numbnuts"

Amuse me who was better in 02' and 05'(counting the playoffs)
the players are ranked based on the regular season, otherwise superstar players who miss out on the playoffs will be worse than half of the league.

Translation David Robinson never won a title as the best player because he was a p*ssy who was allergic to the low post and didn't know how to lead a well balanced supporting cast including a 20 ppg, a 9 apg pg and a 16 rpg, 2 time dpoy, 5 time champion PF.
but never a superstar, until tim duncan.

I'm not just talking head to head. That would account for what 10-12 games. Shaq had 3 seasons over 29 ppg and 5 over 28 ppg. Robinson had 1 of each.
i'm not talking about head to head either.

You are basing that on nothing I however am basing that on a 23-7 record.
you think o'neal would've won a championship without kobe? :roll: you're freakin delusional

[VCMVP1551]

he missed too many games during those years (toe injuries and the like)to qualify as better years than his rookie season, and you don't get to call people retards if you can't type coherent sentences[QUOTE]

So I rush a bit when I'm typing? Big f*cking deal I make more valid points than you could ever dream of making.

[QUOTE]shaq missed just 1 game in '93 compared to 15 missed games in both '02, and '03, and 9 missed games in '05. he also single handidly improved the magic by 20 games without a superstar teammate, and was the second best rebounder, and shot blocker in the game.

Who cares about superstar teammates. Shaq helped Wade a lot which is why his scoring average increased 8 ppg. The Heat lost 2 key players Odom(selected as an all star the year before) and Butler but with Shaq they still improved 17 wins.


lol look at you. in just 33 or 34 minutes per game? are you actually acting as if you're coming up with all these numbers through your memory rather than copying them off basketball-reference.com? what a ****in nobody. you get more pathetic by the post :oldlol:

No actually I usually look up the stats but I did do Shaq's 2004-2005 season off of memory otherwise I would have posted the exact stats. You acting like that would be difficult for somebody to do proves you are a moron. I was too lazy to look up Shaq's 2004-2005 season but I could remember enough to round his stats atleast.


are you actually saying my rankings aren't the official rankings? **** you're beyond repair.

Me and the rest of the board. :)


wrong. its not close, he was easily better in '99. second best player on the best team in the nba, top 7 overall compared to top 12 overall, was better in every statistic besides points (in less minutes), missed only 1 game, better per, better defender, and the list goes on and on. the game was also played at a slower pace in '99 which is another reason why his '99 was more impressive.

Once again with the rankings. :roll: Yeah the game was played at a slower pace but it's more difficult to maintain stats over 80 games. Robinson played 80 out of 82 in 99'-00' instead of 49 out of 50 in 98'-99'.


you're a loser, and a pale one at that. i've already destroyed this..if you compare pace, rebound %, and rebound:point differential you will descover that his '93 season was his best rebounding season ever. its a damn fact.

lmao....wtf kind of insult was that. "You're a loser...and a pale one at that". The most effective way is to compare his rebounds to the league average.


who cares? he was owned in '94, just like he was owned in '93. just like '95, '96, and '98.

95', 98'????? Wow you made this too easy.

O'Neal vs Robinson 94'-95'
Shaq- 32.0 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 1.5 apg, 0.5 bpg
David- 29.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 1.0 apg, 3.0 bpg

Each won one of the games

They only played once in 96' and despite Robinson outscoring O'Neal Shaq won the game.

O'Neal vs Robinson 97'-98'
Shaq- 28.5 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, 3.0 bpg
David- 25.0 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 bpg

Shaq won both games


yes, lets leave out turnovers and steals because shaq loses in both categories. regardless shaq gets outplayed again.

lmao then we must include FG% if we include all of those stats because that is more important for a C than steals. Keeping it simple with points, rebounds, assists and blocks is the easiest. If we include steals, turnovers then we must include FG% where Robinson gets destroyed.


kobe was a better individual, and a better team player. though carter had slightly better stats, kobe was a much better defender, better rebounder, and better passer, and won more games.

He won more games because he had Shaq carrying him. When Kobe was out that year Shaq led the Lakers to an 12-4 record. Put Carter on the Lakers with Shaq who averaged 30, 14, 4, 3 and 57% and watch he wins 67 games atleast if not more. Why do you ***** about Shaq missing games but ignore Kobe missing 16 that year?


i've already said iverson was better in '01. carter was closer to bryant in '01 than he was in '00, but kobe was still better.

It could go either way. You could make arguments for both Vince and Kobe in 01' but that has nothing to do with the Shaq vs Robinson debate.



elliott was nowhere near johnson, and rodman was on the bulls "numbnuts"
Robinson was with the Spurs for atleast a few years in the early to mid 90's(too lazy to look up which years except for I know he was on the Spurs in 94'-95') and Elliot was a 20 ppg scorer, good shooter and good defender.

the players are ranked based on the regular season, otherwise superstar players who miss out on the playoffs will be worse than half of the league.


but never a superstar, until tim duncan.

A balanced supporting cast can be just as good.


i'm not talking about head to head either.

Oh yeah i forgot that 03'-04' season was when O'Neal was 32 but in all fairness his scoring dropped so much because his shot attempts went way down with malone and Payton joining. If you use Shaq's stats through the 02'-03' season then his average will be a little better.


you think o'neal would've won a championship without kobe? :roll: you're freakin delusional

A 23-7 record without Kobe and 3 incredible regular seasons/playoff runs/finals series backs up my point.

[Dwight_Howard12]

Shep vs vcmvp1551

vcmvp1551 >> Shep :D

[Shep]

So I rush a bit when I'm typing? Big f*cking deal
ah yes, the old "i rush when i type" excuse. pathetic

I make more valid points than you could ever dream of making.
:roll:

Who cares about superstar teammates.
yeh, you're right. nobody wants superstar teammates. jordan didn't want pippen, kg was happy all those years in minny. people we are witnessing a genius at work.

Shaq helped Wade a lot which is why his scoring average increased 8 ppg. The Heat lost 2 key players Odom(selected as an all star the year before) and Butler but with Shaq they still improved 17 wins.
yes..wade's increase in scoring is all shaq's doing..once again pure genius.

No actually I usually look up the stats but I did do Shaq's 2004-2005 season off of memory otherwise I would have posted the exact stats. You acting like that would be difficult for somebody to do proves you are a moron.
no. i'm saying that it would be difficult to do for someone of your mental capabilities, the average nba fan could do so quite believably.

Me and the rest of the board.
not my bad :confusedshrug:

Yeah the game was played at a slower pace but it's more difficult to maintain stats over 80 games.
heresay bs. i could argue that it was alot harder in the '99 season because there was no training camp, and no pre season competition, and that nobody had a proper preparation for the regular season. defeated once again.

Robinson played 80 out of 82 in 99'-00' instead of 49 out of 50 in 98'-99'.
lol..look at the use of the '. i've already told you the ' goes before the year eg: '99, not 99'. stupidity. and there was no '98-'99 season, there was only a '99 season. 49/50 is also better than 80/82..man destroying you is the easiest thing i've done all day today..besides you mother.

lmao....wtf kind of insult was that. "You're a loser...and a pale one at that". The most effective way is to compare his rebounds to the league average.
rebound %, rebound:point ratio, and pace is the most effective way.

O'Neal vs Robinson 94'-95'
Shaq- 32.0 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 1.5 apg, 0.5 bpg
David- 29.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 1.0 apg, 3.0 bpg

Each won one of the games

They only played once in 96' and despite Robinson outscoring O'Neal Shaq won the game.

O'Neal vs Robinson 97'-98'
Shaq- 28.5 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 2.0 apg, 3.0 bpg
David- 25.0 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 bpg

Shaq won both games

:lol: what is this doing for your argument? robinson clearly outplayed o'neal in both years :roll:

lmao then we must include FG% if we include all of those stats because that is more important for a C than steals. Keeping it simple with points, rebounds, assists and blocks is the easiest. If we include steals, turnovers then we must include FG% where Robinson gets destroyed.

why add fg% if you're not going to add ft%? and we know how pathetic shaq is at free throws: about as pathetic as you are at arguing a point. so if we add fg% and ft% overall robinson wins, so robinson wins in the %'s, and overall statistical impact..looks like you've shot yourself in the foot by even mentioning percentages :roll:

He won more games because he had Shaq carrying him. When Kobe was out that year Shaq led the Lakers to an 12-4 record. Put Carter on the Lakers with Shaq who averaged 30, 14, 4, 3 and 57% and watch he wins 67 games atleast if not more.
once again heresay bs. kobe carried the lakers at times in the finals, would carter have been able to do that? wait don't answer that, fanboy

Why do you ***** about Shaq missing games but ignore Kobe missing 16 that year?
when looking back on a career of accomplishments games played is important, its also important when judging how good a year that player had, but when you look at who was the better player at a certain time, games played is not important.

It could go either way. You could make arguments for both Vince and Kobe in 01'
YOU could try and make an argument, but you'd be shut down quickly by me.

Robinson was with the Spurs for atleast a few years in the early to mid 90's(too lazy to look up which years except for I know he was on the Spurs in 94'-95') and Elliot was a 20 ppg scorer, good shooter and good defender.
you mean rodman? the guy that was traded away for will purdue? yeh, he must've meant alot to the franchise. elliott was never a defender, just a spot up shooter who was trash without robinson, proved by his one year away from the spurs.

Oh yeah i forgot that 03'-04' season was when O'Neal was 32 but in all fairness his scoring dropped so much because his shot attempts went way down with malone and Payton joining. If you use Shaq's stats through the 02'-03' season then his average will be a little better.
robinson's shots dropped to 14 a game when duncan arrived, just like shaq's dropped when malone and payton arrived

A 23-7 record without Kobe and 3 incredible regular seasons/playoff runs/finals series backs up my point.
overall record, playoff run, and finals victory was not capable without kobe bryant

[bdreason]

Shep you can't really think Robinson was better than Shaq.

Hakeem, Duncan, and Kareem are also better.



Sabonis was a stud. Whenever I think of the first euro ballers that really impressed me in the league I think of Sabonis and Petrovich (sp?).

[Heretik32]

Way to go Shep, trolling into yet another thread and destroying any trace of readability with your childish "dissection" arguments. Grow up and get a life:sleeping

[Psileas]

And yet both Hakeem and Shaq had better seasons than Sabonis when they were 33 or older, and neither of the two are the best examples of longevity, like Kareem.

Well, as great as he is, Sabonis does get somewhat overrated when some people say he would become the GOAT center, better than Shaq/Hakeem, etc if he started his career in the 80's, etc. Even if he did, this still wouldn't guarantee an injury-free career. Neither, of course, would it guarantee that he'd suddenly cover weaknesses that he seemed unwilling to do in his actual life, such as his dislike for hard practice (even his Soviet teammates will tell you that he was never a fan of practice) or his, not so great for a center, defense. The latter is why I don't believe he would become better than Hakeem even if he came earlier to the NBA.

[CB4GOATPF]

Arvydas Sabonis-Before Injuries 1986

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik

:applause:

[jamal99]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X12w-0Z7A8A

[CB4GOATPF]

:no: :hammerhead:

1986: Is Sabonis Before Destroying Both Aquilles Tendons

Sabonis Was Only 8 Months Older Than Robinson and Totally Destroyed Him...Wilt Like :oldlol: :rockon: :cheers: :bowdown:

End :violin: :sleeping

[eliteballer]

Sabonis was juiced up on Roids, that's EXACTLY WHY he had all those injuries later on.

I'd love to see a juiced up DRob take him on.

[CB4GOATPF]

Sabonis was juiced up on Roids, that's EXACTLY WHY he had all those injuries later on.

I'd love to see a juiced up DRob take him on.

:roll: :rolleyes: :no:

Sabonis is The Reason Why The Dream Existed

[CB4GOATPF]

:cheers:

[White Chocolate]

Not going to lie. Sabonis at 25 years old in the NBA has a good shot of putting up 30/15/5/3 on 55% shooting.

[sbw19]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyzUZWVLJy8&NR=1

What Darko should've been.

[CB4GOATPF]

Not going to lie. Sabonis at 25 years old in the NBA has a good shot of putting up 30/15/5/3 on 55% shooting.


Sabonis is a Top 5 Center of All Time...Period

Wilt
Jabbar
Shaq
Hakeem (CF)
Sabonis
..................
Robinson
Duncan (CF)

If One Includes Only Pure Cs

Wilt
Jabbar
Sabonis
Shaq

[Niquesports]

Sabonis is a Top 5 Center of All Time...Period

Wilt
Jabbar
Shaq
Hakeem (CF)
Sabonis
..................
Robinson
Duncan (CF)

If One Includes Only Pure Cs

Wilt
Jabbar
Sabonis
Shaq

It is almost a crime how people overrate this guy. Ok he was a monster in the euro game how many times have we seen players look great in international play and look avg in the NBA 90% of them. To think that this guy is or was better than a prime healthy Walton
or a Moses
Pat
Cowens
I even think players like Unseld and Reed would have beat him up too much its well know he had no heart remember Sheed throwing a towel in his face and he just smirks it wasnt injuries that slowed him down it was the NBA stle of play that did.

[Big#50]

Sabonis is a Top 5 Center of All Time...Period

Wilt
Jabbar
Shaq
Hakeem (CF)
Sabonis
..................
Robinson
Duncan (CF)

If One Includes Only Pure Cs

Wilt
Jabbar
Sabonis
Shaq
KAJ
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
DROB





The rest.

[CB4GOATPF]

It is almost a crime how people overrate this guy. Ok he was a monster in the euro game how many times have we seen players look great in international play and look avg in the NBA 90% of them. To think that this guy is or was better than a prime healthy Walton
or a Moses
Pat
Cowens
I even think players like Unseld and Reed would have beat him up too much its well know he had no heart remember Sheed throwing a towel in his face and he just smirks it wasnt injuries that slowed him down it was the NBA stle of play that did.

:no: :rolleyes: :banghead: :hammerhead:

Before Breaking BOTH AQUILLES TENDONDS just after the Olympics....

Sabonis ws...think this:

1st:

3rd or 2nd Most Strongest Cener Ever: 7`3 ft and 279 lbs at 18 years old, later on 292 lbs.....

Athletic and Coordinated...before injuries...as u can watch here.... watch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik

Could Rebound, Shot Block, Hammer Dunk On Anyone...Anyone

Destroying 8th Month Younger Robinson Only

2nd:

Walton himself claimed Sabnis "Was The Best Passing Center Ever"

3rd:

Forget about Ewing as the "Bes Far Range Shooting Center Ever"....Sabonis Was Better and he Could SHOOT THREES EFFICIENTLY

4th:

Had a Post Game, Hook Shot, Fadeways and Back Jumpers.

Watch That Clip....:confusedshrug:

[CB4GOATPF]

KAJ
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
DROB





The rest.


Wilt
Jabbar
Shaq Hakeem Sabonis

D Rob

[magnax1]

It is almost a crime how people overrate this guy. Ok he was a monster in the euro game how many times have we seen players look great in international play and look avg in the NBA 90% of them. To think that this guy is or was better than a prime healthy Walton
or a Moses
Pat
Cowens
I even think players like Unseld and Reed would have beat him up too much its well know he had no heart remember Sheed throwing a towel in his face and he just smirks it wasnt injuries that slowed him down it was the NBA stle of play that did.
The difference is that Sabonis did play in the NBA, and played very well, in an era with some really great centers.

[Big#50]

Wilt
Jabbar
Shaq Hakeem Sabonis

D Rob
Sabonis fell apart by age 24. STEROIDS U.S.S.R.

[CB4GOATPF]

The difference is that Sabonis did play in the NBA, and played very well, in an era with some really great centers.

It Was just Sabonis

Not THEE ARVYDAS SABONIS

THE PLAYER THAT CAUSED THE CREATION OF THE DREAM TEAM.

BeforR Breaking BOTH AQUILLES TENDONS...He Destroyed Robinson Shaqlike Wise

Except one must add that Saba Could Pass and Shoot From The Outside Like NO OTHER CENTER EVER

[Niquesports]

The difference is that Sabonis did play in the NBA, and played very well, in an era with some really great centers.
WHen he did play he was at best a bottom top 50 C more like a top 45-50 al time. My point is how many players look great or very good in international play but in the NBA are avg at best this guy is the perfect example.

[magnax1]

It Was just Sabonis

Not THEE ARVYDAS SABONIS

THE PLAYER THAT CAUSED THE CREATION OF THE DREAM TEAM.

BeforR Breaking BOTH AQUILLES TENDONS...He Destroyed Robinson Shaqlike Wise

Except one must add that Saba Could Pass and Shoot From The Outside Like NO OTHER CENTER EVER
I wouldn't say that, but he was definitely one of the best shooting centers I've seen. I agree that hes at least a top 10 center, but I wouldn't put him at 5, over guys like Bill Russel and Moses Malone.
And to Nique sports, go look at his per 36 minutes stats, for his first and second and third years. He was falling off extremely quickly, but in his first year, he was one of the 5 best centers in the league.

[Niquesports]

It Was just Sabonis

Not THEE ARVYDAS SABONIS

THE PLAYER THAT CAUSED THE CREATION OF THE DREAM TEAM.

BeforR Breaking BOTH AQUILLES TENDONS...He Destroyed Robinson Shaqlike Wise

Except one must add that Saba Could Pass and Shoot From The Outside Like NO OTHER CENTER EVER
The reason he shot from the outside was because he did have the heart to play inside with the big boys. Cant see any7 other top C letting Sheed throw a towle in there face and do nothing.

[CB4GOATPF]

Sabonis fell apart by age 24. STEROIDS U.S.S.R.

I guess steroids also helped Shaq say that Sabonis was the Sronngest Center He Faced :confusedshrug: ...after ofcourse knowig he was playing with 30% of his REAL LEVEL and watched what he was like before he concluded Sabonis was the Best Center he Faced.

The Us simply had to Put the Best Players in the Game from now on because Europe was not the Europe of the 50s, 60s or 70s.

Especially beause of SABA...:pimp:

Infact the Best European Players Ever Played in the 80s.

[CB4GOATPF]

The reason he shot from the outside was because he did have the heart to play inside with the big boys. Cant see any7 other top C letting Sheed throw a towle in there face and do nothing.

He had a Great Bank Jumper and Hook Shot.

He was Crippled in the NBA not only slowen by age but CRIPPLED after having BOTH AQUILLIES TENDONS BROKEN after 1986. He never played the same after 1987 do to injury...even though till about 1990 He Was Still Dominant

If he didnt have any Heart then Why is He Destroying... Dunking and Blocking on Robinson in the Paint as if he was a Kinder Gardener here in these clips below? :confusedshrug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ

[Big#50]

I guess steroids also helped Shaq say that Sabonis was the Sronngest Center He Faced :confusedshrug: ...after ofcourse knowig he was playing with 30% of his REAL LEVEL and watched what he was like before he concluded Sabonis was the Best Center he Faced.

The Us simply had to Put the Best Players in the Game from now on because Europe was not the Europe of the 50s, 60s or 70s.

Especially beause of SABA...:pimp:

Infact the Best European Players Ever Played in the 80s.
Yes, steroids.

[CB4GOATPF]

Yes, steroids.

:no: :cheers:

[blazerjimmy]

Sabonis was a "good" center when he played in the NBA.....that was after all the injuries - if he'd come over earlier and gotten away from his steroid-pushing handlers, he could have (and WOULD have, in my opinion) changed the landscape of the late 80s and early 90s.

[RoseCity07]

I never new he took roids. I do think he looks very different than when he was younger. So maybe they changed his apperance more than just aging.

He looked like a elephant person when I saw him in person after a game.

Anyway, he had to guard Shaq with fused ankles. That was an amazing thing he was doing in its own right. He did a better job than anyone with no mobility.