Top 20 Player PRIMES All-Time

[NPD850]

Rather than read 11+ pages of Jordan Prime vs. Kobe Prime vs. Chaimberlain/Magic/Russell/Robertson/Who$^$&^%ing Ever, please rank the 20 best individual seasons ever. Please limit the list to one individual season per player (this season representing this player's overall prime). I feel that limiting this all-time season list to one season per player will provide interesting insight on what each individual poster values in their argument for GOAT. I am also curious if anyone will make the argument that the GOAT did not in fact record the GOAT overall season for a player.

I feel like player-prime arguments recieve such emphasis on this board, but never include players both with incredible primes but relatively short elite-status careers (Ralph Sampson, Penny Hardaway, etc.). I wonder if any players with short elite-level status will rank all-time. I am no stat expert, but am consistently impressed with the collective knowledge of the board. I have seen examples of opinions on both Jordan's and Bryant's best statistical seasons. Please provide a list of the greatest individual seasons by players in sequential order, complete with stats and explaination of WHY this season deserves its rank as an all-time great. If you can't provide statistical proof of your player's greatness vs. the players you hate, please go post in the 999+ page ongoing thread about Mike vs. Kobe based on who you preferred playing as in NBA Live.

[L.Kizzle]

In no order ...


Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Elgin Baylor
Jerry West
Bob Pettit

There is 5ive.

[mjbulls23]

this is just off the top of my head in no order so I might be forgetting some.

Wilt (61-62) 50/25/2 on 50% FG
Oscar (61-62) 30/12/11
MJ (88-89) 32/8/8/3 on 54% FG
Baylor (61-62) 38/19/5
Magic (82-83) 16/10/8/2 on 55% FG
Bird (84-85) 29/11/7/2/1 on 52% FG


edit: looked up some more great seasons

Moses (81-82) 31/14/2/2 on 51% FG
Kareem (71-72) 35/17/5 on 57% FG
MJ (87-88) 35/6/6/2 on 54% FG
Magic (86-87) 23/12/6/2 on 52% FG
Oscar (63-64) 31/11/10
Shaq (99-00) 30/14/4/3 on 57% FG

[Glove_20]

Let me name some


Top 20 Players at their Peak (No order)


(Peak and Prime are different, Prime is more when you were good, Peak is more, when you were at your best, Prime is like 7-11 years depending on player, Peak is like 2-4 years depending on Player)



I think we are talking peak...



Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Michael Jordan
Shaquille O'Neal
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Moses Malone
Jerry West
Julius Erving
Elgin Baylor
David Robinson


At this point it kind of gets cloudy

[hito da god]

99-00 shaq was incredible

29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 3 bpg on 57% from the field is nuts... and he also stayed under 3 TOs a game

in the playoffs he dropped 30.4 ppg, 15.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, and 2.8 bpg on 55% from the field
:bowdown:

[Younggrease]

Let me name some


Top 20 Players at their Peak (No order)


(Peak and Prime are different, Prime is more when you were good, Peak is more, when you were at your best, Prime is like 7-11 years depending on player, Peak is like 2-4 years depending on Player)



I think we are talking peak...



Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Michael Jordan
Shaquille O'Neal
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Moses Malone
Jerry West
Julius Erving
Elgin Baylor
David Robinson


At this point it kind of gets cloudy

Sorry but Duncan, Kobe, Lebron(this year) at their best was better then David Robinson imo...

[Glove_20]

Sorry but Duncan, Kobe, Lebron(this year) at their best was better then David Robinson imo...

Yeah I forgot some. But I'd take a Peak Robinson over a Peak Duncan. Robinson was just the better individual player.

I'd probably take Robinson over Kobe or LeBron too right now. Though I guess all of them belong in Top 20.

[KINGD]

Kobe 05-06.SIckness.

[Glove_20]

this is just off the top of my head in no order so I might be forgetting some.

Wilt (61-62)
Oscar (61-62)
MJ (88-89)
Baylor (61-62)
Magic (82-83)
Bird (84-85)


edit: looked up some more great seasons

Moses (81-82)
Kareem (71-72)
MJ (87-88)
Magic (86-87)
Archibald (72-73)
Oscar (63-64)
Shaq (99-00)

Might as well add


Hakeem (94). Can't have a greatest season lists without him.

Also, Archibald has no business at all on that list. Come on now. I can name not just 5 other players, but 5 other PGs who would be over him in 1 year, and at least 5.

Walton was great in 78. Robinson was great in 95.
How about Dr. J?

[NPD850]

Please, stats. Please prove these. That was the point of this, to have actual data to back up the million arguments on this board and perhaps come close to an actual agreement. Or at least rid us immediately of people without any knowledge to back up their argument.

[gabeh1018]

Yeah I forgot some. But I'd take a Peak Robinson over a Peak Duncan. Robinson was just the better individual player.

I'd probably take Robinson over Kobe or LeBron too right now. Though I guess all of them belong in Top 20.


He was?! :confusedshrug:

[NPD850]

this is just off the top of my head in no order so I might be forgetting some.

Wilt (61-62)
Oscar (61-62)
MJ (88-89)
Baylor (61-62)
Magic (82-83)
Bird (84-85)


edit: looked up some more great seasons

Moses (81-82)
Kareem (71-72)
MJ (87-88)
Magic (86-87)
Archibald (72-73)
Oscar (63-64)
Shaq (99-00)


These are a good start. Numbers please. The whole idea of this thread is dissolving idiot's arguments for certain players places in history with statistical proof. Please provide us with numbers for these seasons, I am fascinated to know them.

[ruslan]

04-05 AI...sick numbers but the team sucked....

30ppg 8apg and 2.5spg........made numbers for 6ft player...would have won mvp if his team got close to 50 wins....

also alot of shaq years in LA, mad numbers and rings brought to LA....

[Loki]

Can't do top 20 right now, but the top 10 imo:

Jordan ('88-'91)
Wilt ('62-'65)
Shaq ('00-'02)
KAJ ('72-'75)
Bird ('84-'86)
Magic ('86-'89)
Olajuwon ('92-'95)
Baylor (early-mid 60's)
West (mid 60's)
Moses/Barkley/DRob

[mjbulls23]

These are a good start. Numbers please. The whole idea of this thread is dissolving idiot's arguments for certain players places in history with statistical proof. Please provide us with numbers for these seasons, I am fascinated to know them.

I edited my OG post with the numbers :cheers:

[NPD850]

Sorry but Duncan, Kobe, Lebron(this year) at their best was better then David Robinson imo...

David Robinson at arguably his peak scored 71 in a game. More than Jordan ever did. More or less because of a feud with Shaq. He was physically at LEAST a peer to all of them. Prove to me that these players are better. How is everyone on this board suddenly afraid to rank players?

[gabeh1018]

Kobe 05-06.SIckness.


I beg to differ.

yes 35.4 PPG is impressive and a top 10 regular season scoring average; however, I believe it is the lowest FG% out of the 10. So I won't include that season.

[NPD850]

this is just off the top of my head in no order so I might be forgetting some.

Wilt (61-62) 50/25/2 on 50% FG
Oscar (61-62) 30/12/11
MJ (88-89) 32/8/8/3 on 54% FG
Baylor (61-62) 38/19/5
Magic (82-83) 16/10/8/2 on 55% FG
Bird (84-85) 29/11/7/2/1 on 52% FG


edit: looked up some more great seasons

Moses (81-82) 31/14/2/2 on 51% FG
Kareem (71-72) 35/17/5 on 57% FG
MJ (87-88) 35/6/6/2 on 54% FG
Magic (86-87) 23/12/6/2 on 52% FG
Oscar (63-64) 31/11/10
Shaq (99-00) 30/14/4/3 on 57% FG

Love the edit. This is what I'm talking about.

[Younggrease]

David Robinson at arguably his peak scored 71 in a game. More than Jordan ever did. More or less because of a feud with Shaq. He was physically at LEAST a peer to all of them. Prove to me that these players are better. How is everyone on this board suddenly afraid to rank players?

Prove to me that prime Robinson was better then Duncan. I put the burden of proof on you. No sane person imo could think Robinson could hold a candle to Duncan.

[mjbulls23]

Might as well add


Hakeem (94). Can't have a greatest season lists without him.

Also, Archibald has no business at all on that list. Come on now. I can name not just 5 other players, but 5 other PGs who would be over him in 1 year, and at least 5.

Walton was great in 78. Robinson was great in 95.
How about Dr. J?

ya I just looked at ESPN's alltime list for the bottom portion... and you know how bad ESPN lists can be :oldlol: :hammerhead:

but I'm not old enough to have consistently seen Tiny play live so I don't really know..

[NPD850]

I beg to differ.

yes 35.4 PPG is impressive and a top 10 regular season scoring average; however, I believe it is the lowest FG% out of the 10. So I won't include that season.

Love this too. Still waiting on a top 20 statistical seasons list. Or ANY list. I see seasons quoted off the top of poster's heads with regularity on this board. Rank them.

[Glove_20]

ya I just looked at ESPN's alltime list for the bottom portion... and you know how bad ESPN lists can be :oldlol: :hammerhead:

but I'm not old enough to have consistently seen Tiny play live so I don't really know..

Which All-Time List?


But yeah, Tiny only made it to the playoffs once in his prime. Just once. And not only that, that 34/12 year you posted, he didn't even make the playoffs. I mean honestly, I would never call it an "All-Time Year" when in that year you weren't even good enough to make playoffs.

Payton's 2000 was better:

24ppg
9apg
7rpg
Led League in 3s Made
All-Defensive 1st
2spg
Made it to playoffs with starcast worse than Tiny's.

[NPD850]

Prove to me that prime Robinson was better then Duncan. I put the burden of proof on you. No sane person imo could think Robinson could hold a candle to Duncan.

I happen to agree with you in terms of a career. I am merely trying to stir up more than simple debate. The entire point of this thread was admitting that I am not a stat expert, thereby RELIEVEING ME from the burden of proof. I am relying on the vast stat-quoting power of ISH to create an educated argument about the greatest all-around seasons in NBA history.

[KINGD]

I beg to differ.

yes 35.4 PPG is impressive and a top 10 regular season scoring average; however, I believe it is the lowest FG% out of the 10. So I won't include that season.

The guy averaged damn near 36/6/5/2 a game.I did not say it was top 10 all time.Just a great season.Not to mention he made ALL-NBA 1st defensive team that year...

[mjbulls23]

Which All-Time List?


But yeah, Tiny only made it to the playoffs once in his prime. Just once. And not only that, that 34/12 year you posted, he didn't even make the playoffs. I mean honestly, I would never call it an "All-Time Year" when in that year you weren't even good enough to make playoffs.

Payton's 2000 was better:

24ppg
9apg
7rpg
Led League in 3s Made
All-Defensive 1st
2spg
Made it to playoffs with starcast worse than Tiny's.


it was this one...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=GreatestNBASeasons


but ya I agree now that GP, Hakeem, etc.. should be ahead after seeing the stats plus being able to actually have seen them play during those seasons..

[ZeN]

Wilt Chamberlain

Michael Jordan

Magic Johnson

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Bill Russell

Jerry West

Shaquille O'Neal

Elgin Baylor

Oscar Robertson

Larry Bird

Julius Erving

Kobe Bryant

Hakeem Olajuwon

Moses Malone

Karl Malone

[VCMVP1551]

99-00 shaq was incredible

29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 3 bpg on 57% from the field is nuts... and he also stayed under 3 TOs a game

in the playoffs he dropped 30.4 ppg, 15.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, and 2.8 bpg on 55% from the field
:bowdown:

And 38.0 ppg, 16.7 rpg, 2.3 apg, 2.67 bpg 61.1 FG% in the Finals carrying the team in 6 games while Kobe struggled putting up 15.6 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 4.2 apg and 36.7 FG%.

Shaq also had a 61 point game that season and in the Finals he had 3 40 point games and two 20 rebound games.

O'Neal also won the scoring title, Regular Season MVP, Finals MVP, All Star MVP, finished second in rebounds, 3rd in blocks, 1st in field goal percentage and 2nd in Defensive Player Of The Year voting. Not to mention he led the Lakers to a 67-15 record that season and a 12-4 record when Kobe was injured that year.

The best season a center ever had.

[NPD850]

So far we have:

Wilt (61-62) 50/25/2 on 50% FG

Oscar (61-62) 30/12/11

MJ (88-89) 32/8/8/3 on 54% FG

Baylor (61-62) 38/19/5

Magic (82-83) 16/10/8/2 on 55% FG

Bird (84-85) 29/11/7/2/1 on 52% FG

Moses (81-82) 31/14/2/2 on 51% FG

Kareem (71-72) 35/17/5 on 57% FG

MJ (87-88) 35/6/6/2 on 54% FG

Magic (86-87) 23/12/6/2 on 52% FG

Oscar (63-64) 31/11/10

04-05 AI...sick numbers but the team sucked....

30ppg 8apg and 2.5spg........made numbers for 6ft player...would have won mvp if his team got close to 50 wins....

Shaq (99-00) 30/14/4/3 on 57% FG
29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 3 bpg on 57% from the field is nuts... and he also stayed under 3 TOs a game
in the playoffs he dropped 30.4 ppg, 15.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, and 2.8 bpg on 55% from the field And 38.0 ppg, 16.7 rpg, 2.3 apg, 2.67 bpg 61.1 FG% in the Finals carrying the team in 6 games while Kobe struggled putting up 15.6 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 4.2 apg and 36.7 FG%.

Shaq also had a 61 point game that season and in the Finals he had 3 40 point games and two 20 rebound games.

O'Neal also won the scoring title, Regular Season MVP, Finals MVP, All Star MVP, finished second in rebounds, 3rd in blocks, 1st in field goal percentage and 2nd in Defensive Player Of The Year voting. Not to mention he led the Lakers to a 67-15 record that season and a 12-4 record when Kobe was injured that year.

Payton's 2000
24ppg
9apg
7rpg
Led League in 3s Made
All-Defensive 1st
2spg

Still in no order.

[IceMan2]

I thought you said limit it to 1 player? You have Oscar twice. If we can do 2 to a player, MJ, Wilt, and some others would just take up all the room.

[NPD850]

I thought you said limit it to 1 player? You have Oscar twice. If we can do 2 to a player, MJ, Wilt, and some others would just take up all the room.

That was a cut-and-paste of everything of substance so far in this thread. You are 100% correct in calling me out on my rule of one individual season for every player, and your reasoning is 100% why I created this topic. Who had the greatest season all-time? If that isn't the GOAT, who is, and WHAT IS YOUR PROOF?

[Shep]

this thread was made for me

1. Shaquille O'Neal '00
2. Wilt Chamberlain '67
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '72
4. Wilt Chamberlain '68
5. Wilt Chamberlain '62
6. Oscar Robertson '64
7. Wilt Chamberlain '66
8. Wilt Chamberlain '64
9. Oscar Robertson '65
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '73
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '71
12. Jerry West '72
13. Wilt Chamberlain '63
14. Elgin Baylor '62
15. Oscar Robertson '66
16. Oscar Robertson '62
17. George Mikan '49
18. George Mikan '50
19. Wilt Chamberlain '60
20. Hakeem Olajuwon '93

[NPD850]

I thought you said limit it to 1 player? You have Oscar twice. If we can do 2 to a player, MJ, Wilt, and some others would just take up all the room.

Limit it to one player/season/prime, Shep. Still looking forward to a list of all-time greatest seasons vs. GOAT players. With numbers.

[facebook]

this threads bring out an interesting point that while Tim Duncan is one of the best pf/c in the league of all time, but he never had one season that stands out.. he's basically averaged 22-23pt / 11-12 rb /2 blk every season (except one year with 25pt).. won a championship once every few yrs.. talk about consistency.

[Shep]

Limit it to one player/season/prime, Shep.
sorry dude, i didin't see that.

1. Shaquille O'Neal '00
2. Wilt Chamberlain '67
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '72
4. Oscar Robertson '64
5. Jerry West '72
6. Elgin Baylor '62
7. George Mikan '49
8. Hakeem Olajuwon '93
9. David Robinson '95
10. John Havlicek '72
11. Kevin Garnett '04
12. Michael Jordan '96
13. LeBron James '06
14. Dwyane Wade '06

[Aussie Dunker]

this thread was made for me

1. Shaquille O'Neal '00
2. Wilt Chamberlain '67
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '72
4. Wilt Chamberlain '68
5. Wilt Chamberlain '62
6. Oscar Robertson '64
7. Wilt Chamberlain '66
8. Wilt Chamberlain '64
9. Oscar Robertson '65
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '73
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '71
12. Jerry West '72
13. Wilt Chamberlain '63
14. Elgin Baylor '62
15. Oscar Robertson '66
16. Oscar Robertson '62
17. George Mikan '49
18. George Mikan '50
19. Wilt Chamberlain '60
20. Hakeem Olajuwon '93

Intresting opinion mannn, looks like a good list but im having a hard time comprehending that the GOAT (MJ) cant even make the top 20 "prime seasons"... :confusedshrug:

[Shep]

Intresting opinion mannn, looks like a good list but im having a hard time comprehending that the GOAT (MJ) cant even make the top 20 "prime seasons"... :confusedshrug:
probably because he didn't have 1 single season where he dominated more than the players listed did in their respective years? jordan is top 3 all time because of what he led his team to, and how he lifted his game in the playoffs...along with almost never missing a game..but that is up for discussion when talking about all-time great players, and judging their careers, we are talking about 1 season peaks here.

you'll find the real goat (wilt) was mentioned seven times.

[Dasher]

Short Primes:

Penny 95-96: 21.7 points, 7.1 assists, 4.3 boards, 2 steals, 51.3FG%, 82 GP
All Star, 1st Team All NBA, 3rd in the MVP Voting

Ralph Sampson 84-85: 22.1 points, 2.7 assists, 10.4 boards, 1 steal, 2blks 50.2FG%
All-Star Game MVP, 2nd Team All NBA, 10th in the MVP Voting

Sidney Moncrief 82-83: 22.5 points, 3.9 assists, 5.8 boards,1.5 steals, 52.4FG%
All Star, DPOY, 1st Team All NBA, 1st Team All Defense, 4th in MVP Voting
*Any year from 81-85 could be used.

Andrew Toney 83-84: 20.4 points, 4.8 assists, 2.5 boards, 0.9 steals, 52.7FG%
All Star, 15th in MVP Voting

[2LeTTeRS KD]

Prove to me that prime Robinson was better then Duncan. I put the burden of proof on you. No sane person imo could think Robinson could hold a candle to Duncan.

I disagree. Robinson was a much better talent than Duncan. More athletic, a better scorer, just as good on D (but much better in the passing lanes), and also stronger. He was just in a situation in SA where he didn't have enough weapons beside him during his prime to win. Honestly the worse thing that could have happened to D Rob (other than Rodman quesioning his heart) in the way he's perceived historically is Hakeem winning both those titles in 94-95 with a supporting cast only as good as the one Robinson had in San Antonio, and outplaying him in the playoffs while doing it. I still don't think its his fault, what Hakeem did was historic to win with a supporting cast that bad, and D Rob shouldn't be faulted for not being able to repeat that. But now, where there is no dynasty to contend with or a big man better than him to outplay him in the playoffs if he was on these current Spurs in Duncan's place they don't miss a beat.

So I guess that means I think Robinson in his peak is better than Duncan in his, still not as accomplished though.

[Aussie Dunker]

probably because he didn't have 1 single season where he dominated more than the players listed did in their respective years? jordan is top 3 all time because of what he led his team to, and how he lifted his game in the playoffs...along with almost never missing a game..but that is up for discussion when talking about all-time great players, and judging their careers, we are talking about 1 season peaks here.

you'll find the real goat (wilt) was mentioned seven times.

Ill agree that is debatable....

however I still beleive Jordans 32/8/8 year, and the year he averaged 35ppg while being named defensive player of the year both deserve to be on this list... I hope your not basing this list on pure stats, which it looks like you might of done... etc No Magic, Bird or Russell....

Im sure 4 of the top 6 of all time could muster up a season good enough to be worthy of this list...

[ruslan]

orlando t mac was sick.....averaged like 28ppg 7rpg 6apg and 2 stl......2 scoring titles allstar and other crap.....

2001 AI.....scoring champ, all star mvp, league mvp, all nba first team, steal champ, min champ, east conf champ....two 50 point games in playoffs series(2nd to do it with MJ).....and alot of other small accomplishments...not bad for 6ft playing with scrubs.

[GOAT:MANU]

David Robinson at arguably his peak scored 71 in a game. More than Jordan ever did. More or less because of a feud with Shaq. He was physically at LEAST a peer to all of them. Prove to me that these players are better. How is everyone on this board suddenly afraid to rank players?
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

without Robinson, spurs sucked, without TD, still can win 50 games without prob,

Robinson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tD

[GOAT:MANU]

Intresting opinion mannn, looks like a good list but im having a hard time comprehending that the GOAT (MJ) cant even make the top 20 "prime seasons"... :confusedshrug:
:cheers: :cheers: I AGREE

[DavidLeeforMVP]

wilt at number 1 on my list

[DavidLeeforMVP]

this thread was made for me

1. Shaquille O'Neal '00
2. Wilt Chamberlain '67
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '72
4. Wilt Chamberlain '68
5. Wilt Chamberlain '62
6. Oscar Robertson '64
7. Wilt Chamberlain '66
8. Wilt Chamberlain '64
9. Oscar Robertson '65
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '73
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '71
12. Jerry West '72
13. Wilt Chamberlain '63
14. Elgin Baylor '62
15. Oscar Robertson '66
16. Oscar Robertson '62
17. George Mikan '49
18. George Mikan '50
19. Wilt Chamberlain '60
20. Hakeem Olajuwon '93

i like that list but i wish walton was up there

[Heilige]

Kobe 05-06.SIckness.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFwaBWkpdcE

Sick.

:rockon:

[Carbine]

Robinson has a better numbers peak than Duncan, but does that really determine who the better player was? It's a well known fact that Duncan is more than willing to give his shots to his teammates, and do what's good for the team thus that impacts his stats. A prime example would be Kevin Garnett, he went from a situation where he was putting up some serious
numbers, 22/13/5 was an average year for him, and now he's winning and his stats have dropped to 18.8/9.5/3.4

It doesn't mean Kevin is not capable of putting up bigger numbers, it just means he's sacrificing his individual glory for winning. That's what Duncan has been doing his whole career yet when looked back upon we somehow forget that and base our judgement on his (still impressive, but not historic) stats.

It's a terrible way to judge things from my perspective.

[kgisbigticket]

Well according to PER here are the top 10

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season.html


1. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.84 1962-63
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.76 1961-62
3. Michael Jordan 31.71 1987-88
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.64 1963-64
5. Michael Jordan 31.63 1990-91
6. Michael Jordan 31.19 1989-90
7. Michael Jordan 31.14 1988-89
8. David Robinson 30.66 1993-94
9. Shaquille O'Neal 30.65 1999-00
10. Shaquille O'Neal 30.55 1998-99


Jordan has 4 seasons in the top 10 with over 31.1 each season which was from 1988-1991.
MJ and Wilt would be #1 and #2 with Shaq being 3rd. Also David Robinson season was greater than Duncan's or anyone else not named MJ, Wilt or Shaq.



Also here is career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

Top 19

1. Michael Jordan 27.91
2. Shaquille O'Neal 27.21
3. George Mikan* 26.82
4. David Robinson 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Bob Pettit* 25.37
7. LeBron James 25.20
8. Tim Duncan 25.12
9. Neil Johnston* 24.67
10. Charles Barkley* 24.63
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
12. Chris Paul 24.26
13. Magic Johnson* 24.11
14. Dirk Nowitzki 23.94
15. Dwyane Wade 23.91
16. Karl Malone 23.90
17. Kevin Garnett 23.87
18. Hakeem Olajuwon 23.59
19. Julius Erving* 23.57

[Glove_20]

this thread was made for me

1. Shaquille O'Neal '00
2. Wilt Chamberlain '67
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '72
4. Wilt Chamberlain '68
5. Wilt Chamberlain '62
6. Oscar Robertson '64
7. Wilt Chamberlain '66
8. Wilt Chamberlain '64
9. Oscar Robertson '65
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '73
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '71
12. Jerry West '72
13. Wilt Chamberlain '63
14. Elgin Baylor '62
15. Oscar Robertson '66
16. Oscar Robertson '62
17. George Mikan '49
18. George Mikan '50
19. Wilt Chamberlain '60
20. Hakeem Olajuwon '93

What's new? Shep makes another dumb list

[VCMVP1551]

sorry dude, i didin't see that.

1. Shaquille O'Neal '00
2. Wilt Chamberlain '67
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '72
4. Oscar Robertson '64
5. Jerry West '72
6. Elgin Baylor '62
7. George Mikan '49
8. Hakeem Olajuwon '93
9. David Robinson '95
10. John Havlicek '72
11. Kevin Garnett '04
12. Michael Jordan '96
13. LeBron James '06
14. Dwyane Wade '06

Wow shep putting Shaq number 1? While I disagree with most of the list I think you could make a case for Shaq's 1999-2000 season being the best overall season when you consider everything he did.

[mjbulls23]

this thread was made for me

1. Shaquille O'Neal '00
2. Wilt Chamberlain '67
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '72
4. Wilt Chamberlain '68
5. Wilt Chamberlain '62
6. Oscar Robertson '64
7. Wilt Chamberlain '66
8. Wilt Chamberlain '64
9. Oscar Robertson '65
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '73
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '71
12. Jerry West '72
13. Wilt Chamberlain '63
14. Elgin Baylor '62
15. Oscar Robertson '66
16. Oscar Robertson '62
17. George Mikan '49
18. George Mikan '50
19. Wilt Chamberlain '60
20. Hakeem Olajuwon '93

:hammerhead: :banghead: :hammerhead: :banghead: :hammerhead: :banghead: :hammerhead: :banghead: :hammerhead: :banghead:

[VCMVP1551]

A prime example would be Kevin Garnett, he went from a situation where he was putting up some serious
numbers, 22/13/5 was an average year for him, and now he's winning and his stats have dropped to 18.8/9.5/3.4

It doesn't mean Kevin is not capable of putting up bigger numbers, it just means he's sacrificing his individual glory for winning. That's what Duncan has been doing his whole career yet when looked back upon we somehow forget that and base our judgement on his (still impressive, but not historic) stats.

It's a terrible way to judge things from my perspective.
Well you are forgetting that Duncan didn't really start sacrificing stats and minutes until 04'-05'. He played about 36-40 minutes every year until then and after his rookie season Robinson was no longer a superstar while Ginobili and Parker didn't turn into the type of players who would really take shots away from Duncan until 04'-05'. You could argue that started in 03'-04' because Duncan's minutes did drop a lot but he still played 36.6 per game.

Ginobili and Parker have never been the scorers Pierce and Allen are either so they don't take as many shots away from Duncan even now not to mention KG's drop in minutes has been even more significant than Duncan''s.

He averaged 22.4 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.7 bpg in 2006-2007 but played 39.4 mpg
Now he's averaging as you said 18.8 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.4 apg, 1.4 spg, 1.2 bpg but now he plays only 33.7 mpg and he plays with much better scorers and rebounders than last year. Even with the better teammates taking away shots and rebounds if you give him the 39.4 mpg he got last year his numbers are almost as good this year.

07'-08' 22.0 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 4.1 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.5 bpg and with a much better FG%

[Carbine]

Duncan has been sacrificing his individual stats for as long as he's been in the league and probably further. Just watch him play, he's not overly concerned about his numbers or the way he's perceived by anyone OTHER than his teammates and coaches - at the end of the day if you have their complete trust and faith to get the job done, that's all that matters.

Duncan has had the type of impact to warrent 20+ shots per year, but his season high for shots per game is below 18 if I remember correctly. Even when he was, as you say, not surrounded by the individual scoring talent of Parker & Gino, he was still sacrificing his stats as it was in the best interest of the team. It's what I have admired about his game - his ability to trust his teammates, whoever they may be, when he really didn't have to from such a young age. When your best player is passing up shots to get his teammates a better one it really instills confidence in one another. Having played the game with the Kobe types (who take questionable shots, but are supremly talented) to the ones who really try to get inferior teammates involved yet you know nobody would say anything if they shot the ball a lot, it's one of the underrated things in basketball.

Anyways, when you start basing peaks and what have you mainly on numbers it becomes a worthless debate. Stats, like most things, have to be taken with some context, which most fail to do.

[Chalkmaze]

Duncan has been sacrificing his individual stats for as long as he's been in the league and probably further. Just watch him play, he's not overly concerned about his numbers or the way he's perceived by anyone OTHER than his teammates and coaches - at the end of the day if you have their complete trust and faith to get the job done, that's all that matters.

Duncan has had the type of impact to warrent 20+ shots per year, but his season high for shots per game is below 18 if I remember correctly. Even when he was, as you say, not surrounded by the individual scoring talent of Parker & Gino, he was still sacrificing his stats as it was in the best interest of the team. It's what I have admired about his game - his ability to trust his teammates, whoever they may be, when he really didn't have to from such a young age. When your best player is passing up shots to get his teammates a better one it really instills confidence in one another. Having played the game with the Kobe types (who take questionable shots, but are supremly talented) to the ones who really try to get inferior teammates involved yet you know nobody would say anything if they shot the ball a lot, it's one of the underrated things in basketball.

Anyways, when you start basing peaks and what have you mainly on numbers it becomes a worthless debate. Stats, like most things, have to be taken with some context, which most fail to do.

Good post, I'd have liked to have basically said the same thing.

[Psileas]

please rank the 20 best individual seasons ever.

I'll do this, instead of posting the top-20 primes. Only post-shot clock era.

Just missed: Rick Barry, 1967+1975, Magic Johnson, 1982+1989, Michael Jordan, 1987+1996+1997, Nate Archibald, 1973, Kobe Bryant, 2006, Wilt Chamberlain, 1960+1963+1965, Bill Russell, 1960+1961+1965, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1977, Tracy McGrady, 2003, Larry Bird 1984+1985, Elgin Baylor, 1961+1962+1963, Moses Malone, 1981, Shaqulle O'Neal 2002, Hakeem Olajuwon, 1993+1994, Tim duncan, 2003, John Havlicek, 1972, Bob Pettit, 1958.

(yes, all these, plus the 20 add up to about 45. Couldn't leave out any of these).

20) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1980
19) Bill Russell, 1962
18) Wilt Chamberlain, 1964
17) Shaquille O'Neal, 2001
16) Michael Jordan, 1989
15) Hakeem Olajuwon, 1995
14) Moses Malone, 1983
13) Wilt Chamberlain, 1968
12) Michael Jordan 1992
11) Larry Bird, 1986
10) Michael Jordan 1988
9) Oscar Robertson, 1962
8) Oscar Robertson, 1964 (almost averaged a TD+ECF)
7) Magic Johnson, 1987
6) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1972
5) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1971
4) Shaquille O'Neal, 2000
3) Michael Jordan, 1991
2) Wilt Chamberlain, 1962
1) Wilt Chamberlain, 1967

[Glove_20]

I'll do this, instead of posting the top-20 primes. Only post-shot clock era.

Just missed: Rick Barry, 1967+1975, Magic Johnson, 1982+1989, Michael Jordan, 1987+1996+1997, Nate Archibald, 1973, Kobe Bryant, 2006, Wilt Chamberlain, 1960+1963+1965, Bill Russell, 1960+1961+1965, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1977, Tracy McGrady, 2003, Larry Bird 1984+1985, Elgin Baylor, 1961+1962+1963, Moses Malone, 1981, Shaqulle O'Neal 2002, Hakeem Olajuwon, 1993+1994, Tim duncan, 2003, John Havlicek, 1972, Bob Pettit, 1958.

(yes, all these, plus the 20 add up to about 45. Couldn't leave out any of these).

20) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1980
19) Bill Russell, 1962
18) Wilt Chamberlain, 1964
17) Shaquille O'Neal, 2001
16) Michael Jordan, 1989
15) Hakeem Olajuwon, 1995
14) Moses Malone, 1983
13) Wilt Chamberlain, 1968
12) Michael Jordan 1992
11) Larry Bird, 1986
10) Michael Jordan 1988
9) Oscar Robertson, 1962
8) Oscar Robertson, 1964 (almost averaged a TD+ECF)
7) Magic Johnson, 1987
6) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1972
5) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1971
4) Shaquille O'Neal, 2000
3) Michael Jordan, 1991
2) Wilt Chamberlain, 1962
1) Wilt Chamberlain, 1967



Good list Psileas. Best List I've seen so far by far.


But how does 95 Hakeem go over 94 Hakeem? Pretty similar, but 94 Hakeem won MVP, Finals MVP, All-NBA 1st, DPOY, and All-Defensive 1st. He also led his team to the title without any superstar next to him.
I'd say 94 was his best season.

Not really liking Tiny up there even in honoarble mentions. If you have him, might as well put in GP, KJ, Isiah, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, or Cousy as well. 34/12 is great, but not so great when you don't make playoffs.





Otherwise excellent list, I couldn't have made one that good myself.
:cheers:

[Psileas]

Good list Psileas. Best List I've seen so far by far.


But how does 95 Hakeem go over 94 Hakeem? Pretty similar, but 94 Hakeem won MVP, Finals MVP, All-NBA 1st, DPOY, and All-Defensive 1st. He also led his team to the title without any superstar next to him.
I'd say 94 was his best season.

Not really liking Tiny up there even in honoarble mentions. If you have him, might as well put in GP, KJ, Isiah, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, or Cousy as well. 34/12 is great, but not so great when you don't make playoffs.


Otherwise excellent list, I couldn't have made one that good myself.

Thanks. First of all, the distance is small. Hakeem's 1994 may be around in around 21-25 in my list. However, this isn't a definite list. I wrote it down without using any solid formula or something.
Although MVP votings did play a role in my positionings, I think he was misjudged in 1995 (as was Magic in 1982, for other reasons). Ewing and Malone above him in MVP voting? Mutombo above him when it came to All-D teams? Sorry people, but no.
Statistically, you know. His impact on the team in the regular season was almost as big in 1995 as in 1994 and arguably higher in the 1995 playoffs. The destruction of Robinson played its role, the whole impression of a 47-win team winning it all, outscoring Shaq in 4 straight, etc.

If you base your choices more on MVP/DPOY votings (which include regular season wins), then 1994 will be ranked higher.

[RainierBeachPoet]

I'll do this, instead of posting the top-20 primes. Only post-shot clock era.

Just missed: Rick Barry, 1967+1975, Magic Johnson, 1982+1989, Michael Jordan, 1987+1996+1997, Nate Archibald, 1973, Kobe Bryant, 2006, Wilt Chamberlain, 1960+1963+1965, Bill Russell, 1960+1961+1965, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1977, Tracy McGrady, 2003, Larry Bird 1984+1985, Elgin Baylor, 1961+1962+1963, Moses Malone, 1981, Shaqulle O'Neal 2002, Hakeem Olajuwon, 1993+1994, Tim duncan, 2003, John Havlicek, 1972, Bob Pettit, 1958.

(yes, all these, plus the 20 add up to about 45. Couldn't leave out any of these).

20) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1980
19) Bill Russell, 1962
18) Wilt Chamberlain, 1964
17) Shaquille O'Neal, 2001
16) Michael Jordan, 1989
15) Hakeem Olajuwon, 1995
14) Moses Malone, 1983
13) Wilt Chamberlain, 1968
12) Michael Jordan 1992
11) Larry Bird, 1986
10) Michael Jordan 1988
9) Oscar Robertson, 1962
8) Oscar Robertson, 1964 (almost averaged a TD+ECF)
7) Magic Johnson, 1987
6) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1972
5) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1971
4) Shaquille O'Neal, 2000
3) Michael Jordan, 1991
2) Wilt Chamberlain, 1962
1) Wilt Chamberlain, 1967

this list shows us all the reason why psileas is one of the -- if not the-- best post-ers here at ish:cheers:

question: what was your process in coming up with it?

the only one that is missing, imo, is walton in 1977-- he was just totally dominant

[mjbulls23]

I'll do this, instead of posting the top-20 primes. Only post-shot clock era.

Just missed: Rick Barry, 1967+1975, Magic Johnson, 1982+1989, Michael Jordan, 1987+1996+1997, Nate Archibald, 1973, Kobe Bryant, 2006, Wilt Chamberlain, 1960+1963+1965, Bill Russell, 1960+1961+1965, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1977, Tracy McGrady, 2003, Larry Bird 1984+1985, Elgin Baylor, 1961+1962+1963, Moses Malone, 1981, Shaqulle O'Neal 2002, Hakeem Olajuwon, 1993+1994, Tim duncan, 2003, John Havlicek, 1972, Bob Pettit, 1958.

(yes, all these, plus the 20 add up to about 45. Couldn't leave out any of these).

20) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1980
19) Bill Russell, 1962
18) Wilt Chamberlain, 1964
17) Shaquille O'Neal, 2001
16) Michael Jordan, 1989
15) Hakeem Olajuwon, 1995
14) Moses Malone, 1983
13) Wilt Chamberlain, 1968
12) Michael Jordan 1992
11) Larry Bird, 1986
10) Michael Jordan 1988
9) Oscar Robertson, 1962
8) Oscar Robertson, 1964 (almost averaged a TD+ECF)
7) Magic Johnson, 1987
6) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1972
5) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1971
4) Shaquille O'Neal, 2000
3) Michael Jordan, 1991
2) Wilt Chamberlain, 1962
1) Wilt Chamberlain, 1967

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Psileas]

question: what was your process in coming up with it?

the only one that is missing, imo, is walton in 1977-- he was just totally dominant

Like I said, there was no certain process or formula. But everything plays its role: Stats, playoff success and awards, in about this order, with "playoff success" being closer to "stats" than awards.

On Bill Walton: I might have his 1977 in honorable mentions at best. He did have a superb Finals' series, but apart from this, Kareem was more dominant that year. He won the MVP award, posted better stats and actually outplayed Walton in their WCF battle.

Proof:
http://www.bballsports.com/blazershistory/boxscore8255596.html

PS. Damn, no Dr.J. But then again, I don't think he had a really dominant single season. If we included the ABA, then he'd easily have 2 such seasons (1974, 1976). Also, add 1970 Willis Reed and 1994 Robinson in the honorable mentions.

[Aussie Dunker]

Good list Psileas. Best List I've seen so far by far.


But how does 95 Hakeem go over 94 Hakeem? Pretty similar, but 94 Hakeem won MVP, Finals MVP, All-NBA 1st, DPOY, and All-Defensive 1st. He also led his team to the title without any superstar next to him.I'd say 94 was his best season.

Not really liking Tiny up there even in honoarble mentions. If you have him, might as well put in GP, KJ, Isiah, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, or Cousy as well. 34/12 is great, but not so great when you don't make playoffs.





Otherwise excellent list, I couldn't have made one that good myself.
:cheers:

Yerrr mann id say Hakeem in 94 was the most dominant he has ever been in relation to the rest of the league.

-MVP
-DPOY
-All NBA 1st team
-All defensive 1st team
-Title
-Finals MVP
:bowdown:

That there in my humble opinion deserves to be right up there with the best of seasons....

[Prancing_Tim]

And 38.0 ppg, 16.7 rpg, 2.3 apg, 2.67 bpg 61.1 FG% in the Finals carrying the team in 6 games while Kobe struggled putting up 15.6 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 4.2 apg and 36.7 FG%.

Shaq also had a 61 point game that season and in the Finals he had 3 40 point games and two 20 rebound games.

O'Neal also won the scoring title, Regular Season MVP, Finals MVP, All Star MVP, finished second in rebounds, 3rd in blocks, 1st in field goal percentage and 2nd in Defensive Player Of The Year voting. Not to mention he led the Lakers to a 67-15 record that season and a 12-4 record when Kobe was injured that year.

The best season a center ever had.

True that. It would be hard to script a better overall season... maybe if he had saved a couple babies or something...

[Y2Gezee]

I may go back and list them all. But I gotta put Shaq's prime in atleast top 3. The man that won 3 straight Finals MVPs was indeed a bad man

[mjbulls23]

I may go back and list them all. But I gotta put Shaq's prime in atleast top 3. The man that won 3 straight Finals MVPs was indeed a bad man

yes..

for me it would be:

1. Wilt
2. MJ/Shaq
3. Shaq/MJ
4. Kareem
5. Oscar/Magic


now if we're ranking individual seasons, then it might be a bit different, but Wilt would still be at the top

[GOAT:MANU]

yes..

for me it would be:

1. Wilt
2. MJ/Shaq
3. Shaq/MJ
4. Kareem
5. Oscar/Magic


now if we're ranking individual seasons, then it might be a bit different, but Wilt would still be at the top

so true, wilt is the best big man in the history of the basket.

[GOAT:MANU]

Well according to PER here are the top 10

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season.html


1. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.84 1962-63
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.76 1961-62
3. Michael Jordan 31.71 1987-88
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.64 1963-64
5. Michael Jordan 31.63 1990-91
6. Michael Jordan 31.19 1989-90
7. Michael Jordan 31.14 1988-89
8. David Robinson 30.66 1993-94
9. Shaquille O'Neal 30.65 1999-00
10. Shaquille O'Neal 30.55 1998-99


Jordan has 4 seasons in the top 10 with over 31.1 each season which was from 1988-1991.
MJ and Wilt would be #1 and #2 with Shaq being 3rd. Also David Robinson season was greater than Duncan's or anyone else not named MJ, Wilt or Shaq.



Also here is career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

Top 19

1. Michael Jordan 27.91
2. Shaquille O'Neal 27.21
3. George Mikan* 26.82
4. David Robinson 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Bob Pettit* 25.37
7. LeBron James 25.20
8. Tim Duncan 25.12
9. Neil Johnston* 24.67
10. Charles Barkley* 24.63
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
12. Chris Paul 24.26
13. Magic Johnson* 24.11
14. Dirk Nowitzki 23.94
15. Dwyane Wade 23.91
16. Karl Malone 23.90
17. Kevin Garnett 23.87
18. Hakeem Olajuwon 23.59
19. Julius Erving* 23.57
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

so true, David robinson is >>>>>>>>>>>>>duncan

[allball]

David Thompson 77-78 27/5/5/2stls/1.2blks .521FG%
Walt Frazier 71-71 23/6/7 stls not recorded but at least 2-3 per game. 512FG%
Rick Barry 74-75 31/6/6/3 stls .464FG%

[GOAT:MANU]

David Thompson 77-78 27/5/5/2stls/1.2blks .521FG%
Walt Frazier 71-71 23/6/7 stls not recorded but at least 2-3 per game. 512FG%
Rick Barry 74-75 31/6/6/3 stls .464FG%

:bowdown: well done bro, it's crazy man, you know if you don't win a ring or have 81/game... people won't remember you as a Great player, i bet that most people here don't know who they're.

[Da KO King]

Gary Payton's 2000 season is better than Tiny Achibald's 1973 season? :rolleyes:

[mjbulls23]

David Thompson 77-78 27/5/5/2stls/1.2blks .521FG%
Walt Frazier 71-71 23/6/7 stls not recorded but at least 2-3 per game. 512FG%
Rick Barry 74-75 31/6/6/3 stls .464FG%

ya those were also some great seasons :pimp: :pimp:

[Niquesports]

Let me name some


Top 20 Players at their Peak (No order)


(Peak and Prime are different, Prime is more when you were good, Peak is more, when you were at your best, Prime is like 7-11 years depending on player, Peak is like 2-4 years depending on Player)



I think we are talking peak...



Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Michael Jordan
Shaquille O'Neal
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Moses Malone
Jerry West
Julius Erving
Elgin Baylor
David Robinson


At this point it kind of gets cloudy


If your talking just "PEAK" this is the one time Bill Walton can be discussed

[mjbulls23]

If your talking just "PEAK" this is the one time Bill Walton can be discussed

ya that's true :pimp:

[feyki]

As 3 year stretches ;

1 - 89-91 Jordan
2 - 72-74 Kareem(would be best , if there was no Thurmond )
3 - 66-68 Wilt
4 - 93-95 Hakeem
5 - 61-63 Russell
6 - 01-03 Duncan
7 - 49-51 Mikan
8 - 00-02 Shaq
9 - 84-86 Bird
10 - 12-14 Lebron
11 - 87-89 Magic ( could be above Bird and Lebron w/out 89 finals injury )
12 - 61-63 Elgin
13 - 63-65 Oscar
14 - 09-11 Wade
15 - 81-83 Moses
16 - 91-93 Barkley
17 - 08-10 Kobe
18 - 03-05 Garnett
19 - 57-59 Pettit
20 - 68-70 West

HM's ;

75-77 Erving , 04-06 Dirk , 94-96 Admiral , 92-94 Ewing .

[ArbitraryWater]

As 3 year stretches ;

1 - 89-91 Jordan
2 - 72-74 Kareem(would be best , if there was no Thurmond )
3 - 66-68 Wilt
4 - 93-95 Hakeem
5 - 61-63 Russell
6 - 01-03 Duncan
7 - 49-51 Mikan
8- 00-02 Shaq
9 - 84-86 Bird
10 - 12-14 Lebron
11 - 87-89 Magic ( could be above Bird and Lebron w/out 89 finals injury )
12 - 61-63 Elgin
13 - 63-65 Oscar
14 - 09-11 Wade
15 - 81-83 Moses
16 - 91-93 Barkley
17 - 08-10 Kobe
18 - 03-05 Garnett
19 - 57-59 Pettit
20 - 68-70 West

HM's ;

75-77 Erving , 04-06 Dirk , 94-96 Admiral , 92-94 Ewing .

:lol

[rzp]

:lol

yup i was about to say this... TD better than Shaq at his 3peat.?

da fvck:biggums:

[ArbitraryWater]

yup i was about to say this... TD better than Shaq at his 3peat.?

da fvck:biggums:

dude is weird.. also chooses to include '89 MJ over '92 MJ, '08-'10 for Kobe, and get this.. Dirk's best 3-year run as '04-'06, lol.

[feyki]

Duncan had even 26 PER in those 3 year stretches , only 4 PER points worse than Shaq's . Duncan was way better defensive force and better all around player , those capabilities ; which are PER doesn't measure .

Duncan was better for sure as impact on the court .

I'm gonna make some changes on that list ;

1 - 89-91 Jordan
2 - 66-68 Wilt
3 - 93-95 Hakeem
4 - 72-74 Kareem
5 - 61-63 Russell
6 - 01-03 Duncan
7 - 49-51 Mikan
8 - 00-02 Shaq
9 - 84-86 Bird
10 - 12-14 Lebron
11 - 63-65 Oscar
12 - 87-89 Magic
13 - 61-63 Elgin
14 - 09-11 Wade
15 - 81-83 Moses
16 - 91-93 Barkley
17 - 08-10 Kobe
18 - 03-05 Garnett
19 - 68-70 West
20 - 57-59 Pettit

HM ; 94-96 Admiral ..

[DMAVS41]

Underrated 3 year stretch from Dirk for 09-11

Regular season;

25/8/3 58% TS...23.1 PER


Playoffs;

27/9/3 62% TS....26.6 PER


And those numbers don't really touch on his full value as we now have a much better understanding of the impact of gravity, floor spacing, post play, and drawing bigs away from the basket.

[Lebronxrings]

Duncan had even 26 PER in those 3 year stretches , only 4 PER points worse than Shaq's . Duncan was way better defensive force and better all around player , those capabilities ; which are PER doesn't measure .

Duncan was better for sure as impact on the court .

I'm gonna make some changes on that list ;

1 - 89-91 Jordan
2 - 66-68 Wilt
3 - 93-95 Hakeem
4 - 72-74 Kareem
5 - 61-63 Russell
6 - 01-03 Duncan
7 - 49-51 Mikan
8 - 00-02 Shaq
9 - 84-86 Bird
10 - 12-14 Lebron
11 - 63-65 Oscar
12 - 87-89 Magic
13 - 61-63 Elgin
14 - 09-11 Wade
15 - 81-83 Moses
16 - 91-93 Barkley
17 - 08-10 Kobe
18 - 03-05 Garnett
19 - 68-70 West
20 - 57-59 Pettit

HM ; 94-96 Admiral ..
lmao lebron is a looot higher than 10th

[bizil]

Im going with guys who had a GREAT HOF type minimum 5 year prime. So guys like a Walton, Penny, etc. won't make my list:

Perimeter: (no particular order)

MJ
Bird
Bron
Magic
Kobe
Big O
West
Baylor
Durant
Wade

HM: Doc, Barry, Hondo, T Mac


Bigs:

Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Barkley
Mailman
KG
Moses
Dream
Timmy
Admiral

HM: Dirk, Pettit, Ewing, McAdoo

[feyki]

lmao lebron is a looot higher than 10th

His peak 7th in my list . But 2010 and 2011 weren't great years ( in playoffs ) . I listed 3 consecutive years , not best 3 years .



Underrated 3 year stretch from Dirk for 09-11

Regular season;

25/8/3 58% TS...23.1 PER


Playoffs;

27/9/3 62% TS....26.6 PER


And those numbers don't really touch on his full value as we now have a much better understanding of the impact of gravity, floor spacing, post play, and drawing bigs away from the basket.

As offensive impact , definitely top 10 . But Dirk was bad defender in those days and his game was more all around ( and much better defensively ) when his prime years ( around 25-27 ) .

I do take 04-06 Dirk over his 09-11 days , all day .

[DMAVS41]

His peak 7th in my list . But 2010 and 2011 weren't great years ( in playoffs ) . I listed 3 consecutive years , not best 3 years .




As offensive impact , definitely top 10 . But Dirk was bad defender in those days and his game was more all around ( and much better defensively ) when his prime years ( around 25-27 ) .

I do take 04-06 Dirk over his 09-11 days , all day .


Definitely not. He was absolutely not a bad defender in those days...and he had not progressed fully in 04 ad 05 especially as an overall offensive force. I actually think Dirk was a better defender under Carlisle those years...Rick has talked about this numerous times.

No way was Dirk better in 04/05 than he was the years above. 06 for sure on that level or better, but not the other two years.

And considering he didn't do anything in 04 or 05 on the level of 11...I don't see how that was a better stretch for him.

[ArbitraryWater]

His peak 7th in my list . But 2010 and 2011 weren't great years ( in playoffs ) . I listed 3 consecutive years , not best 3 years .




As offensive impact , definitely top 10 . But Dirk was bad defender in those days and his game was more all around ( and much better defensively ) when his prime years ( around 25-27 ) .

I do take 04-06 Dirk over his 09-11 days , all day .

lol, you're wrong on everything concerning Dirk.. not good since you're a fan of his.

[feyki]

Definitely not. He was absolutely not a bad defender in those days...and he had not progressed fully in 04 ad 05 especially as an overall offensive force. I actually think Dirk was a better defender under Carlisle those years...Rick has talked about this numerous times.

No way was Dirk better in 04/05 than he was the years above. 06 for sure on that level or better, but not the other two years.

And considering he didn't do anything in 04 or 05 on the level of 11...I don't see how that was a better stretch for him.

Critic point is that , 11 wasn't different than 10 or 09 . Dirk just had much more defensive team to reach success around him . He was definitely a bad defender , and that's why Mavs needs Marion and Tyson around him to be successful , rather than 2006 .

Dirk had bad playoff year in 2005 . But he was amazing force on both side in 2004 and 2006 playoffs . We didn't need tough defensive players around him . Dirk was good defender .

I can prove this statistically , but i want to talk with my words .

And of course he was far better rebounder in 04-06 . More steals , less turnovers ; much better hustle .

My Germen Bro ;

I'm not a fan of Lebron at least . I don't forget 2011 . And that's just your opinion , if you want to truth ; listen me when way is earlier .

[DMAVS41]

Critic point is that , 11 wasn't different than 10 or 09 . Dirk just had much more defensive team to reach success around him . He was definitely a bad defender , and that's why Mavs needs Marion and Tyson around him to be successful , rather than 2006 .

Dirk had bad playoff year in 2005 . But he was amazing force on both side in 2004 and 2006 playoffs . We didn't need tough defensive players around him . Dirk was good defender .

I can prove this statistically , but i want to talk with my words .

And of course he was far better rebounder in 04-06 . More steals , less turnovers ; much better hustle .

My Germen Bro ;

I'm not a fan of Lebron at least . I don't forget 2011 . And that's just your opinion , if you want to truth ; listen me when way is earlier .


I agree that 11 wasn't any different than 09/10...Dirk was at his peak those years in terms of all around play and all that changed was his help in 11.

Just no about the defense. Dirk's drapm, the best measure we have imo, was higher in 11 than it was in 04, 05, and 06 combined...LOL

You can't prove anything you say statistically...or you will use a more flawed stat (no stat is perfect)

So if you are conceding that Dirk was virtually the same player from 09 through 11...and in 11 he led the league in rapm...led his team to the title in such fashion...and statistically played better defense than he did at any point you are talking about...

You really don't have much of an argument.

Dirk was still progressing and learning in 04 and 05...he was obviously already an all time great, but he wasn't a finished product overall yet.

The main problem with your argument is that Dirk in 11 did something Dirk in 06 couldn't do. Dirk was better when it mattered most in 11. So again, you have conceded he was just as good in 09 and 11...and that simply isn't true with the years you are claiming. In no way was Dirk as good in 04 as he was in 06.

Working with Rick and learning how to deal with the ups and downs of 06 and 07 helped Dirk grow both on and off the court....

And that led to his best 3 year stretch of his career...which was 09-11

[Lebronxrings]

His peak 7th in my list . But 2010 and 2011 weren't great years ( in playoffs ) . I listed 3 consecutive years , not best 3 years .




As offensive impact , definitely top 10 . But Dirk was bad defender in those days and his game was more all around ( and much better defensively ) when his prime years ( around 25-27 ) .

I do take 04-06 Dirk over his 09-11 days , all day .
:biggums:

he won mvp during 2012-2014 and won 2 championships (should have been 3 but refs) he got 2 fmvps from those rings. He was undoubtedly the best player in those years and his team was always the top 2 seed. He had that 1 year where the Heat made history with their huge win streak. Without him, the heat would have been in the lottery. His peak is top 5 at least.

Edit: was a top 5 defender in the league and guarded 1-5 positions.

[Round Mound]

Prime Barkley along Jordan and maybe Kareem are The Only Players in the Top 10 in EFF, PER, Plus/Minus and Winshares Per 48 Min.

[Smoke117]

Duncan had even 26 PER in those 3 year stretches , only 4 PER points worse than Shaq's . Duncan was way better defensive force and better all around player , those capabilities ; which are PER doesn't measure .

Duncan was better for sure as impact on the court .

I'm gonna make some changes on that list ;

1 - 89-91 Jordan
2 - 66-68 Wilt
3 - 93-95 Hakeem
4 - 72-74 Kareem
5 - 61-63 Russell
6 - 01-03 Duncan
7 - 49-51 Mikan
8 - 00-02 Shaq
9 - 84-86 Bird
10 - 12-14 Lebron
11 - 63-65 Oscar
12 - 87-89 Magic
13 - 61-63 Elgin
14 - 09-11 Wade
15 - 81-83 Moses
16 - 91-93 Barkley
17 - 08-10 Kobe
18 - 03-05 Garnett
19 - 68-70 West
20 - 57-59 Pettit

HM ; 94-96 Admiral ..

Cringe...the guy with the most dominant peak in the 90s is just an HM? Go kill yourself fakkot.

[feyki]

:biggums:

he won mvp during 2012-2014 and won 2 championships (should have been 3 but refs) he got 2 fmvps from those rings. He was undoubtedly the best player in those years and his team was always the top 2 seed. He had that 1 year where the Heat made history with their huge win streak. Without him, the heat would have been in the lottery. His peak is top 5 at least.

Edit: was a top 5 defender in the league and guarded 1-5 positions.

So ? Bird had 3 mvp and 2 fmvp in 84-86 . He was best in the league . But other names were too . Lebron's peak is 09 in my mind . And that year could be arguably top 5 . But i prefer Hakeem,Wilt,Russell,Duncan,Kareem over him with their defensive force . Also , Jordan had better prime on both ends .


I agree that 11 wasn't any different than 09/10...Dirk was at his peak those years in terms of all around play and all that changed was his help in 11.

Just no about the defense. Dirk's drapm, the best measure we have imo, was higher in 11 than it was in 04, 05, and 06 combined...LOL

You can't prove anything you say statistically...or you will use a more flawed stat (no stat is perfect)

So if you are conceding that Dirk was virtually the same player from 09 through 11...and in 11 he led the league in rapm...led his team to the title in such fashion...and statistically played better defense than he did at any point you are talking about...

You really don't have much of an argument.

Dirk was still progressing and learning in 04 and 05...he was obviously already an all time great, but he wasn't a finished product overall yet.

The main problem with your argument is that Dirk in 11 did something Dirk in 06 couldn't do. Dirk was better when it mattered most in 11. So again, you have conceded he was just as good in 09 and 11...and that simply isn't true with the years you are claiming. In no way was Dirk as good in 04 as he was in 06.

Working with Rick and learning how to deal with the ups and downs of 06 and 07 helped Dirk grow both on and off the court....

And that led to his best 3 year stretch of his career...which was 09-11


This post reminds me of 2k . 96 Jordan > 91 Jordan :oldlol: .

However , You did use plus minus based stat . Do you really think measure the defence very well with that ? You know , plus minus metrics measure all 5 players effects , not one .

Drtg,drpm,dws , anyway ; those are not necessary . If you work on that , you can see .

[DMAVS41]

So ? Bird had 3 mvp and 2 fmvp in 84-86 . He was best in the league . But other names were too . Lebron's peak is 09 in my mind . And that year could be arguably top 5 . But i prefer Hakeem,Wilt,Russell,Duncan,Kareem over him with their defensive force . Also , Jordan had better prime on both ends .




This post reminds me of 2k . 96 Jordan > 91 Jordan :oldlol: .

However , You did use plus minus based stat . Do you really think measure the defence very well with that ? You know , plus minus metrics measure all 5 players effects , not one .

Drtg,drpm,dws , anyway ; those are not necessary . If you work on that , you can see .

drapm is probably the best measure of defense we have actually.

i just brought it up because you said you could prove your argument...which you can't.

i and every other Dirk fan that watched his entire career simply knows that Dirk was better from 09-11 than he was in 04 and 05. That really shouldn't even be in dispute...like...you are ignorant thinking otherwise.

06? Yea...you can make an argument he was better back then...I just disagree. I think going through the finals loss and the 07 disaster really forced Dirk to improve both on and off the court...in terms of adding more post play and getting more comfortable in certain spots...and improving as a leader.

You just picked a strange stretch...you didn't even include 07 in your years...which just really honestly shows how ignorant you really are. Because Dirk was far better in 07 than he was in 04.

The fact that you picked 04 Dirk over 07 Dirk really is all I need to know.

But I'll respond to whatever BS argument you come up with...it will be funny.

[GrapeApe]

:biggums:

he won mvp during 2012-2014 and won 2 championships (should have been 3 but refs) he got 2 fmvps from those rings. He was undoubtedly the best player in those years and his team was always the top 2 seed. He had that 1 year where the Heat made history with their huge win streak. Without him, the heat would have been in the lottery. His peak is top 5 at least.

Edit: was a top 5 defender in the league and guarded 1-5 positions.

How would the Heat have been in the lottery? :oldlol:

The Heat made the playoffs in consecutive seasons before Lebron got there. They were one game away THIS season from the ECF, that was with 34 year old Wade and no Bosh. 34 year old Wade as a first option put up 21/6/5/1/1 a 22 PER in the playoffs. A younger Wade and healthy Bosh would have been contenders in the east and probably title contenders in 2011 and 2012, especially with an extra $20 million to fill out the roster.

[feyki]

drapm is probably the best measure of defense we have actually.

i just brought it up because you said you could prove your argument...which you can't.

i and every other Dirk fan that watched his entire career simply knows that Dirk was better from 09-11 than he was in 04 and 05. That really shouldn't even be in dispute...like...you are ignorant thinking otherwise.

06? Yea...you can make an argument he was better back then...I just disagree. I think going through the finals loss and the 07 disaster really forced Dirk to improve both on and off the court...in terms of adding more post play and getting more comfortable in certain spots...and improving as a leader.

You just picked a strange stretch...you didn't even include 07 in your years...which just really honestly shows how ignorant you really are. Because Dirk was far better in 07 than he was in 04.

The fact that you picked 04 Dirk over 07 Dirk really is all I need to know.

But I'll respond to whatever BS argument you come up with...it will be funny.

I don't trust plus minus metrics , if you can ; respect . But i can't .

2007 :biggums: .


Cringe...the guy with the most dominant peak in the 90s is just an HM? Go kill yourself fakkot.

Actually , Hakeem made him his b.tch in his(Admiral) peak . It's like KG's . Top 10 peak/prime in season , but in playoffs ? Almost not even top 20 ( KG just barely ) .