C. Paul: "He can't guard me!"

[FabCasablancas]

Would someone please tell the media to hold off on the Chris Paul hype?

would someone show the media the boxscores of all the Mavs playoff runs and point out that EVERY single star the Mavs face under Avery puts up record breaking numbers...

Wade -- set finals records for scoring
Duncan -- put up career playoff numbers
Baron -- scored like the playoff MVP
Kobe -- puts up 63 points in 3 quarter in regular season game
Tmac -- massive scoring bing ein that series -- goes to 7 games.


I think even Pau Gasol put up huge numbers in his first playoff series against the Mavs..




It's Avery that blows, not the greatness of these players.

Avery makes everyone look great.. except his own players.

[joshwake]

cp3 is not god.

but if you could somehow merge deron and paul.. that would be god.

[lakerfreak]

cp3 is not god.

but if you could somehow merge deron and paul.. that would be god.

you're a retard

[Showtime]

Would someone please tell the media to hold off on the Chris Paul hype?

would someone show the media the boxscores of all the Mavs playoff runs and point out that EVERY single star the Mavs face under Avery puts up record breaking numbers...

Wade -- set finals records for scoring
Duncan -- put up career playoff numbers
Baron -- scored like the playoff MVP
Kobe -- puts up 63 points in 3 quarter in regular season game
Tmac -- massive scoring bing ein that series -- goes to 7 games.


I think even Pau Gasol put up huge numbers in his first playoff series against the Mavs..




It's Avery that blows, not the greatness of these players.

Avery makes everyone look great.. except his own players.
Paul is a 3rd year player who everybody was questioning how he might play in the playoffs. Everybody was saying the hornets had a nice season, but they lack experience. Yes, the Mavs aren't great, but this is a young player having a historic season, and made his playoff debut with an amazing performance. He almost set the record for most points by a playoff debut, which was 38. He arguably had a better debut than lebron, and did so against a HOF PG. I think he's entitled to some props.

[demons2005]

Paul is fast becoming the most overrated player I've ever seen. He doesn't have the killer instinct of a winner. If he's hot he's good but if things stop going away he falls apart faster then anyone and drags his impressionable team right down with him. There is too much talent on that roster to have a hothead running team I often wonder what would happen if New Orleans had managed to snag Deron

[konex]

CP3 is getting haters now. He's arrived as a star :oldlol:

[joshwake]

you're a retard
wow... hit a nerve somewhere?

[Showtime]

Paul is fast becoming the most overrated player I've ever seen. He doesn't have the killer instinct of a winner.

Did you watch the game today? Did you watch the 3rd quarter?

While he still has a lot to learn, and still doesn't know when to attack to save a game (on a more consistent basis), saying he doesn't have a killer instinct is a baseless statement.


If he's hot he's good but if things stop going away he falls apart faster then anyone and drags his impressionable team right down with him. There is too much talent on that roster to have a hothead running team I often wonder what would happen if New Orleans had managed to snag Deron
Well, that's the difference in a system and roster like NO's and Utah's. The play revolves around the PG, and to tell you the truth, I think it would fail any other way. They don't have players besides West that can create on their own. There is no guy to throw the ball to and trust to make things happen. If CP didn't step up tonight in the second half, NO would have lost. So if CP doesn't have things going, like you say, it's easy to understand why this team falls apart.

[plowking]

Paul is fast becoming the most overrated player I've ever seen. He doesn't have the killer instinct of a winner. If he's hot he's good but if things stop going away he falls apart faster then anyone and drags his impressionable team right down with him. There is too much talent on that roster to have a hothead running team I often wonder what would happen if New Orleans had managed to snag Deron

:confusedshrug:

[Make It Rain]

Paul is fast becoming the most overrated player I've ever seen. He doesn't have the killer instinct of a winner. If he's hot he's good but if things stop going away he falls apart faster then anyone and drags his impressionable team right down with him. There is too much talent on that roster to have a hothead running team I often wonder what would happen if New Orleans had managed to snag Deron
Can I ask who your favorite player is?

[Manute for Ever!]

CP3 is getting haters now. He's arrived as a star :oldlol:

Exactly :cheers:

[Manute for Ever!]

Can I ask who your favorite player is?

I think we both already know the answer to that...

[SourGrapes]

Would someone please tell the media to hold off on the Chris Paul hype?

would someone show the media the boxscores of all the Mavs playoff runs and point out that EVERY single star the Mavs face under Avery puts up record breaking numbers...

Wade -- set finals records for scoring
Duncan -- put up career playoff numbers
Baron -- scored like the playoff MVP
Kobe -- puts up 63 points in 3 quarter in regular season game
Tmac -- massive scoring bing ein that series -- goes to 7 games.


I think even Pau Gasol put up huge numbers in his first playoff series against the Mavs..




It's Avery that blows, not the greatness of these players.

Avery makes everyone look great.. except his own players.

you say that like pau is a scrub!

[Diesel J]

CP3 is getting haters now. He's arrived as a star :oldlol:

exactly:oldlol:

[Diesel J]

Can I ask who your favorite player is?

I think it's obvious:oldlol:

[chains5000]

CP3 is getting haters now. He's arrived as a star :oldlol:
:applause:
It can't be said better.

[mjbulls23]

Can I ask who your favorite player is?

why even ask? :oldlol:

[xfactor]

Would someone please tell the media to hold off on the Chris Paul hype?

would someone show the media the boxscores of all the Mavs playoff runs and point out that EVERY single star the Mavs face under Avery puts up record breaking numbers...

Wade -- set finals records for scoring
Duncan -- put up career playoff numbers
Baron -- scored like the playoff MVP
Kobe -- puts up 63 points in 3 quarter in regular season game
Tmac -- massive scoring bing ein that series -- goes to 7 games.


I think even Pau Gasol put up huge numbers in his first playoff series against the Mavs..




It's Avery that blows, not the greatness of these players.

Avery makes everyone look great.. except his own players.


Why you put Kobe in that list? He did nothing against the Mavs in the playoffs.

[Manute for Ever!]

Why you put Kobe in that list? He did nothing against the Mavs in the playoffs.

Because it's Kobe. You'll learn that soon enough.

[Hotlantadude81]

He scores
Plays good defense
Passes
Rebounds well for PG
Leads his teams to win

Very little ammo against him right now.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u224/SaneMadness/Failboat.jpg

[Allstar24]

It's Avery that blows, not the greatness of these players.

Avery makes everyone look great.. except his own players.
Oh. My. God. Do you not get tired of blaming Avery for everything? Every single time. You sound like a broken record. Its not like the Mavs were NBA champions before he was their coach. He took your overrated team to the Finals. Be grateful for that.

[bigwebb5000]

Would someone please tell the media to hold off on the Chris Paul hype?

would someone show the media the boxscores of all the Mavs playoff runs and point out that EVERY single star the Mavs face under Avery puts up record breaking numbers...

Wade -- set finals records for scoring
Duncan -- put up career playoff numbers
Baron -- scored like the playoff MVP
Kobe -- puts up 63 points in 3 quarter in regular season game
Tmac -- massive scoring bing ein that series -- goes to 7 games.


I think even Pau Gasol put up huge numbers in his first playoff series against the Mavs..




It's Avery that blows, not the greatness of these players.

Avery makes everyone look great.. except his own players.

Its amazing someone this stupid can operate a keyboard. You are just a hater, plain and simple. CP3 was amazing the entire season and amazing in his first playoff game. He took the game over in the 2nd half. But i guess haters will be haters. And please shut up about avery. How many shots did he attempt? How many minutes did he play? Did he gurad CP3 or West? No!!! A coach can only do so much, its not his fault that his players can't finish games. Get a clue and get off the computer, I'm pretty sure your parents need to use it. :violin:

Go Hornets!:party:

[sbw19]

CP3 is special. All I gotta say. Not too many stars play that well in their first playoff game.

[konex]

Besides LeBron, who's had a better first playoff game? And Bron played against weak competition..

[Younggrease]

CP3 is an amazing player, top 6-7 in the league. But I cant stand his attitude and the attitude of his team. CP3 is mentally fragile he is like the bully at school who is all tough until someone steps to him. When someone doesnt back down he is a totally different player.

[konex]

The only way to slow down CP3 is to make him play defense. That's why he doesn't go ape**** on the Jazz..

[demons2005]

CP3 is an amazing player, top 6-7 in the league. But I cant stand his attitude and the attitude of his team. CP3 is mentally fragile he is like the bully at school who is all tough until someone steps to him. When someone doesnt back down he is a totally different player.
Amen. He is not a good leader because of his attitude which trickles down to the rest of the team. No team can fall apart like the Hornets. The unfortunate thing is he can't be a second option because he needs the ball 99.9% of the time. This kid is never going to win a title that's for sure. The big difference between Paul and Deron is their reaction to pressure. Paul cracks, Deron thrives.

[bigwebb5000]

Amen. He is not a good leader because of his attitude which trickles down to the rest of the team. No team can fall apart like the Hornets. The unfortunate thing is he can't be a second option because he needs the ball 99.9% of the time. This kid is never going to win a title that's for sure. The big difference between Paul and Deron is their reaction to pressure. Paul cracks, Deron thrives.

your post proves you are an idiot and know nothing about basketball

[gpfanz]

CP3 is god :bowdown:

[bdreason]

CP3 is getting haters now. He's arrived as a star :oldlol:

Seriously.

CP3 handled the Mavs yesterday. If they were smart they would double this kid at half court and just let the rest of the Hornets get baskets.

[guy]

Amen. He is not a good leader because of his attitude which trickles down to the rest of the team. No team can fall apart like the Hornets. The unfortunate thing is he can't be a second option because he needs the ball 99.9% of the time. This kid is never going to win a title that's for sure. The big difference between Paul and Deron is their reaction to pressure. Paul cracks, Deron thrives.

Yup he really cracked under pressure last night when he led the Hornets back from a 12-point deficit at halftime to a 12-point win in his first playoff game with 35 points/10 assists.

[RoseCity07]

Mavericks just suck. They never win anything important. There is always an excuse too.

[silencespeak]

CP3 dominates every PG matchup except Deron. Deron knows how to defend him better than anyone.

[FabCasablancas]

Why you put Kobe in that list? He did nothing against the Mavs in the playoffs.

It's just an example of how everyone looks better against Avery..

[XxNeXuSxX]

It seems to me that everyone here missed the point the OP was trying to make.

It's too bad people only read thread titles.

[konex]

Seriously.

CP3 handled the Mavs yesterday. If they were smart they would double this kid at half court and just let the rest of the Hornets get baskets.

Well Avery likes to double with Dampier so West and Chandler would just get layups at the rim :roll:

[guy]

I don't get it. Why do people complain about someone getting hype who has been nothing short of amazing this year. He's a top 3 PG, arguably no. 1, He's a top 5-7 player, he's an MVP candidate, he led his team to a huge turnaround from last season and the 2nd seed in the most competitive conference ever, he's the first player in 15 years to average 20+ppg/10+apg. If he doesn't deserve that amount of hype, then who does?

[JayGuevara]

It seems to me that everyone here missed the point the OP was trying to make.

It's too bad people only read thread titles.

The point Fab has been making for the past couple years still isn't a point though. According to Fab, Avery Johnson is responsible for the depletion of the ozone layer, he was another gunman on the grassy knoll, he killed Pac and Biggie and Eazy, and also was in charge of the Florida recount.

When girls don't give Fab the chocha, he blames it on Avery. That's all there is to it. Avery is evil personified according to him.

[FabCasablancas]

Doesn't the evidence support that Avery is completely incompetent?

In the playoffs the Mavs players look terrible.. and their opponents ALWAYS look like gods.

The only time Aveyr did well in the playoffs was the year they faced the Grizzlies, and they stunk, and had no experience. And the Mavs faced both the Spurs and Suns when their stars had major injuries. And the Mavs barely even handled them.

Everyone else has owned the Mavs.

[Showtime]

Doesn't the evidence support that Avery is completely incompetent?

In the playoffs the Mavs players look terrible.. and their opponents ALWAYS look like gods.

The only time Aveyr did well in the playoffs was the year they faced the Grizzlies, and they stunk, and had no experience. And the Mavs faced both the Spurs and Suns when their stars had major injuries. And the Mavs barely even handled them.

Everyone else has owned the Mavs.
All you do is blame Avery and put nothing on the players. Tell me: if Avery is the problem, then why did the mavs have such a great first half? Did Avery suddenly tell Dirk and Kidd to suck ass in the second half? If Dirk is going to get credit for his first half play, then he should damn well get blame for him sucking too.

[Diesel J]

All you do is blame Avery and put nothing on the players. Tell me: if Avery is the problem, then why did the mavs have such a great first half? Did Avery suddenly tell Dirk and Kidd to suck ass in the second half? If Dirk is going to get credit for his first half play, then he should damn well get blame for him sucking too.

Fabs liked the pre-Avery Mavs when Nellie coached them.They scored alot but were a lock to get bounced every year in the second round because they played no d:oldlol:

[FabCasablancas]

All you do is blame Avery and put nothing on the players. Tell me: if Avery is the problem, then why did the mavs have such a great first half? Did Avery suddenly tell Dirk and Kidd to suck ass in the second half? If Dirk is going to get credit for his first half play, then he should damn well get blame for him sucking too.

Dirk had 30 points.. that's great by any standard.. especially with aveyr as coach.

And I think Avery did tell them to suck in the second half. In the first half I think avery was forced to coahc right because he was desperate.. then at the half becaue the Mavs were in control he let off the gas and tried to have the amvs play halfcourt. aveyr also sucks adjusting to teams defesnively. He just has no talent and has no idea what he is doing or what he should do.

I think with coaching it's either you have it or you don't.. and Avery clearly doesn't. On top of being talentless he has no experience.. and he has an ego and is incredibly stubborn on top of it In other words.. he THINKS he can coach.. when he ca't.. which is ten times worse than just being a bad coach in itself..

[FabCasablancas]

Fabs liked the pre-Avery Mavs when Nellie coached them.They scored alot but were a lock to get bounced every year in the second round because they played no d:oldlol:

That's a heck of a lot better than with Avery.. Avery plays no D.. no O and he's lucky to even make the playoffs..

The only reason Avery had any success was because the system Nellie put in place.. as that eroded so did Avery's success.

[_KP_The_Familia_]

According to S.A.S. after burning Kidd on another basket, Paul was beating his chest and kept yelling out "He can't guard me!". Is this disrespectful to a future hall of famer, or just the passing of the guards from the big older point guard to the super-quick swagged out baby-faced gangster. It was kind of sad watching Kidd tryna chase down Paul the entire game, and if Game 1 was any indication, Kidd is gonna be made looked really bad the rest of the series.

[InspiredLebowski]

Hell no it's not disrespectful. I'm ALL for trash talking.

[KenneBell]

If Kobe did it, therre would be a 5 page thread on how cocky and disrespectful it was. :lol

Anyway, I thought it was pretty cool. I like to see intensity and swagger on the court. I'd probably do the same if I was burning a top 5-10 PG of all-time in my first playoff game.

[dnyk1337]

Well, in Kidd's defense, if it was prime Kidd, there would be no problem in this series.

A problem with these young players is they never played with any prime legends so they really start to think of themselves as unstoppable. Ah, if only prime GP, JS, JK and JD were still playing. It'd be amazing.

[NY Comeback]

Well, if he can't guard you, he can't guard you...

:confusedshrug:

Nobody really can guard CP3, though.

[iggy>]

its not trash talking, hes just pointing out facts.

[DuMa]

trash talk on the court = bueno
trash talk off the court = no bueno.

and the first game of the series is all about intimidation. that was the word of the weekend. everyone was trying to intimidate the other team.

[Younggrease]

I think the funniest thing about CP3 is the face he makes when he is getting outplayed. He looks like a scared puppy. And when they play Utah next series Deron will have him looking like that again. But unlike CP3, Deron wont be yelling at CP3 and cursing every play, he will lead like a leader is supposed to.

[BIZARRO]

Well, in Kidd's defense, if it was prime Kidd, there would be no problem in this series. A problem with these young players is they never played with any prime legends so they really start to think of themselves as unstoppable. Ah, if only prime GP, JS, and JD were still playing. It'd be amazing.


Uh, yes there would be a problem for Kidd in this series.

CP3 currently is a better player than Kidd ever was in his prime.

[iggy>]

I think the funniest thing about CP3 is the face he makes when he is getting outplayed. He looks like a scared puppy. And when they play Utah next series Deron will have him looking like that again. But unlike CP3, Deron wont be yelling at CP3 and cursing every play, he will lead like a leader is supposed to.
hes gotten outplayed? when????????

[Silverbullit]

Another extra motivation for the Mavs :rockon:

[Diesel J]

Well, in Kidd's defense, if it was prime Kidd, there would be no problem in this series.

.Kidd could never guard quick Pg's like CP3 and his 1 on 1 d was always over hyped.Afterall,we all saw Anthony Johnson abuse Kidd like it was nothing:oldlol:

[SoCalMike]

Uh, yes there would be a problem for Kidd in this series.

CP3 currently is a better player than Kidd ever was in his prime.

I think it is too early to say that, but its just my opinion.



:pimp:

[Diesel J]

I think the funniest thing about CP3 is the face he makes when he is getting outplayed. He looks like a scared puppy.

sort of like the ones Kobe makes when lebron is abusing and locking him up?:oldlol:

[High Potential]

hes gotten outplayed? when????????
Every time he plays Deron.

[ihatetimthomas]

Kidd was a good defender in his prime. He still is decent for his age but hes playing the best pg in basketball today. Kidd would be able to stay in front of him w/ more consistency in his prime. Those who say he wouldnt havnt seen him play. He had one of the quickest feet in the L back in the day. I feel bad for him. Kidd is one of my fav players and its sad to see him getting abused as bad as he did game one

[adamcz]

A problem with these young players is they never played with any prime legends so they really start to think of themselves as unstoppable. Ah, if only prime GP, JS, and JD were still playing. It'd be amazing.
That's not true. Every player in the league has played against Nash in his prime. CP3 himself is a legend in his prime - one of the best pg's ever - and every pg in the league plays against him. So there you go.

[Diesel J]

Kidd was a good defender in his prime. He still is decent for his age but hes playing the best pg in basketball today. Kidd would be able to stay in front of him w/ more consistency in his prime.

No he couldn't.Kidd could never guard quick Pg's.Kidd is great at team defense and guarding slower SG's though.

[dawsey6]

That's not disrespectful, that's talking trash. If no one could talk trash on the court and get themselves hyped up, this game would be pretty boring to play and watch. Plus, he can't guard him. :confusedshrug:

[dnyk1337]

That's not true. Every player in the league has played against Nash in his prime. CP3 himself is a legend in his prime - one of the best pg's ever - and every pg in the league plays against him. So there you go.

I meant above average defensively PGs. It's all speculation now, but I wonder how a Gary Payton and Chris Paul matchup would look.

[guy]

Well, in Kidd's defense, if it was prime Kidd, there would be no problem in this series.

A problem with these young players is they never played with any prime legends so they really start to think of themselves as unstoppable. Ah, if only prime GP, JS, and JD were still playing. It'd be amazing.

Who is JD?

[InspiredLebowski]

I meant above average defensively PGs. It's all speculation now, but I wonder how a Gary Payton and Chris Paul matchup would look.

GP would shut him down.

[High Potential]

Who is JD?
Joe Dumars

[dnyk1337]

Who is JD?

Ah, I meant JK. It's probably because Kidd's head looks like it would be of somebody named J.D.

[dnyk1337]

Joe Dumars

That's actually pretty good too. I forgot to add JD.

[joel]

I saw a similar thing way back when Isiah thomas was at the end of his career. A young Kenny Anderson just abused him, going by him. He wasn
t trash talking, but it was sad to watch Isiah getting outquicked. Such is the deal with getting older, it happens to everyone.

[EuJazz]

hes gotten outplayed? when????????

You watched any Jazz/Hornets games in the past 3 years?

[BIZARRO]

I think it is too early to say that, but its just my opinion.



:pimp:


May be too early for you, but not for me.

CP3 is playing at a level Kidd never sniffed.


I mean, man, I haven't seen a point guard play at his current level since the Magic man.

CP3 is just playin' crazy. :bowdown:

[dnyk1337]

May be too early for you, but not for me.

CP3 is playing at a level Kidd never sniffed.


I mean, man, I haven't seen a point guard play at his current level since the Magic man.

CP3 is just playin' crazy. :bowdown:

You're saying Payton, Stockton, and Thomas are already in Paul's dust? gtfo I don't see how that's possible.

[dazed27]

Well, if he can't guard you, he can't guard you...

:confusedshrug:

Nobody really can guard CP3, though.

Wow...Deron WIlliams!!!

[Silverbullit]

hes gotten outplayed? when????????

Paul averages 12.3/4.0/9.3, 0.306% FG%, 0.125% 3P% in 4 games this season versus Utah.

[KokeAyne]

hes gotten outplayed? when????????

Last week at the season finale Kidd was outplaying him. I remember Dallas had the momentum going and Kidd drew an offensive foul at half court on CP3 and right after that CP3 just that face of frustation...

[Younggrease]

You're saying Payton, Stockton, and Thomas are already in Paul's dust? gtfo I don't see how that's possible.

CP3 might not even win this series. But this guy is acting like he is better then Isiah. CP3 is a bad leader and that is gonna haunt him his whole career. I have never seen CP3 in a big game not lose his head, he always plays at the edge of losing it and sooner or later that will cost you in the playoffs.

I really want to see him try his whole "intimidating" things against Duncan and Bowen.

[BIZARRO]

You're saying Payton, Stockton, and Thomas are already in Paul's dust? gtfo I don't see how that's possible.


I'm not saying he's had a better career or even close of course.

But if we are talking about a sustained level of play over the course of a season, I am absolutely saying that CP3 currently is playing at a little higher level than the Glove or Stockton.

And I LOVE the Glove.

I consider Isiah as a member of Magic's era. So I didn't mean him. I mean in the mid 80's Isiah was out of his mind. But Paul is close to that currently.

P.S. In fact, I think mid '80's Isiah is one of the most underrated players in league history.

[yobore]

SAS isn't a reliable source

But it is a disrespectful esp. since Kidd is someone he looked up to growing up but they do whatever it takes to get in ppl's heads i guess. Not everyong can be Timmy D

[BIZARRO]

CP3 might not even win this series. But this guy is acting like he is better then Isiah. CP3 is a bad leader and that is gonna haunt him his whole career. I have never seen CP3 in a big game not lose his head, he always plays at the edge of losing it and sooner or later that will cost you in the playoffs.

You're watching a different CP3 than me.

[Diesel J]

Last week at the season finale Kidd was outplaying him. I remember Dallas had the momentum going and Kidd drew an offensive foul at half court on CP3 and right after that CP3 just that face of frustation...

you must have missed the game Cp3 had against Kidd earlier in the year when he still played for NJ or the first time they met after Kidd was traded to Dallas.

[InspiredLebowski]

It is a disrespectful esp. since Kidd is someone he looked up to growing up but they do whatever it takes to get in ppl's heads i guess. Not everyong can be Timmy D

The same way it was disrespectful for AI to break MJ's ankles?

[BIZARRO]

The same way it was disrespectful for AI to break MJ's ankles?

No, because MJ was still the better player at that point.

[yobore]

The same way it was disrespectful for AI to break MJ's ankles?
that's part of the game. I don't like the attitude around here that competitiveness = bad sportsmanship

[darabzarrabi]

Every time he plays Deron.

IN COR RECT!

[EuJazz]

You're watching a different CP3 than me.

Yeah a different one than me too.

He got pissed during the Jazz's last win in NO, and straight shoved Kirilenko out of the way for a rebound, tore down the court out of control, ran right over Deron Williams (who was standing still haha), got a charge and became IRATE that they called it a charge.

4 points and 9 dimes. You're kidding yourself if you say he never loses his head.

[EuJazz]

IN COR RECT!

What, everytime but one?

How is that incorrect?

[InspiredLebowski]

that's part of the game. I don't like the attitude around here that competitiveness = bad sportsmanship

You're the one who said it was disrespectful of Paul...

[Younggrease]

Yeah a different one than me too.

He got pissed during the Jazz's last win in NO, and straight shoved Kirilenko out of the way for a rebound, tore down the court out of control, ran right over Deron Williams (who was standing still haha), got a charge and became IRATE that they called it a charge.

4 points and 9 dimes. You're kidding yourself if you say he never loses his head.

dont forget in the USA Brazil game where he for no reason throws Varejoa out the way on a dead ball situation almost causing a fight. It happens a lot.

[mjbulls23]

May be too early for you, but not for me.

CP3 is playing at a level Kidd never sniffed.


I mean, man, I haven't seen a point guard play at his current level since the Magic man.

CP3 is just playin' crazy. :bowdown:


prime KJ? :confusedshrug:

[demons2005]

CP3 might not even win this series. But this guy is acting like he is better then Isiah. CP3 is a bad leader and that is gonna haunt him his whole career. I have never seen CP3 in a big game not lose his head, he always plays at the edge of losing it and sooner or later that will cost you in the playoffs.

I really want to see him try his whole "intimidating" things against Duncan and Bowen.
Amen. He is really the most overrated player in the league right now. His leadership is pathetic I saw in the Portland game earlier this year he started whining and how it spreads to his teammates. Chandler and west follow his lead now have you ever watch West he calls and one on every shot he has ever taken. He didn't use to do that but when your leader is a whiner it trickles down. The problem with Paul is he doesn't have the leadership to win the title as a first option but he has the ego of someone who has to be the first option. He will never win a title.

People are comparing him to legends who have actually accomplished something beside ruining his NCAA team's postseason by punching someone in the balls.

[BIZARRO]

Yeah a different one than me too.

He got pissed during the Jazz's last win in NO, and straight shoved Kirilenko out of the way for a rebound, tore down the court out of control, ran right over Deron Williams (who was standing still haha), got a charge and became IRATE that they called it a charge.

4 points and 9 dimes. You're kidding yourself if you say he never loses his head.


Way to take what I said out of context. Did I EVER say there that he NEVER loses his head??

Please don't put words in my mouth.

The poster implied that he loses his head almost always or inevitably will.

It is my take that he is just ultra competitive and he is one of the top 5 players in the league that I would want in the 4th quarter.

THAT is a different player than illustrated by that poster.

[BIZARRO]

prime KJ? :confusedshrug:


Absolutely. CP3 is currently playing at a higher level than KJ even did.

I love KJ. But after he retired he became one of the most overrated players on this board IMO.

Don't get me wrong he was great, but people some people put him above GP, Stockton, and Isiah. Not me.

I know he had the 20/10 thing, but I watched him, and he was never as good as CP3 currently.

If you put early '90's KJ on the Hornets. They ain't winning as many games. Period.

[yobore]

You're the one who said it was disrespectful of Paul...
woops what i wrote could be read two ways.

What I mean is I don't like that taunting and bad sportsmanship is considered being competitive.

[e20dyl4n]

paul is developing into a HUGE trash talker. its turning me off of watching his good play. might even get to the point where I dont like him anymore. I actually started disliking him after he failed in the olympics guarding players. now its growing the more trash he talks

[InspiredLebowski]

woops what i wrote could be read two ways.

What I mean is I don't like that taunting and bad sportsmanship is considered being competitive.

I agree. But I don't consider Paul telling Kidd he can't guard him as unsportsmanlike.

[BIZARRO]

prime KJ? :confusedshrug:


BTW MJBULLS, I'm normally on the other sides of these arguments defending the older guys as you know with our guy MJ, but CP3 has made a believer out of me bro.

[dnyk1337]

Paul can't even get over the Williams hurdle. How do you expect him to get over the legends hurdle so quickly? Stop overrating him. This is how it starts until he becomes the next Kobe or LeBron with everybody on his nuts.

[hotsizzle]

So? I like that attitude.

[BIZARRO]

Paul can't even get over the Williams hurdle. How do you expect him to get over the legends hurdle so quickly? Stop overrating him. This is how it starts until he becomes the next Kobe or LeBron with everybody on his nuts.


I can only call it like I see it man. I don't expect others to agree yet.

I'm not trying to overrate him or be controversial. For all I know, his play could dip next year, etc.

But if we're talking about a level of play for a PG over the course of a season, etc., I haven't seen anyone do like this since Magic.

[mjbulls23]

BTW MJBULLS, I'm normally on the other sides of these arguments defending the older guys as you know with our guy MJ, but CP3 has made a believer out of me bro.

it's not necessarily that older players are always better, but I'm not sure I can place CP3 that high so soon.

Maybe he will prove me wrong in the near future. Who knows? :confusedshrug:

[mrhoopfan]

Absolutely. CP3 is currently playing at a higher level than KJ even did.

I love KJ. But after he retired he became one of the most overrated players on this board IMO.

Don't get me wrong he was great, but people some people put him above GP, Stockton, and Isiah. Not me.

I know he had the 20/10 thing, but I watched him, and he was never as good as CP3 currently.

If you put early '90's KJ on the Hornets. They ain't winning as many games. Period.

Don't go there with my man K.J.

[statman32]

prime KJ? :confusedshrug:
stfu please.

[BIZARRO]

Don't go there with my man K.J.


I loved KJ's game, but I'll say it again, if you put KJ on these Hornets I don't see them winning 55 games.

[mjbulls23]

stfu please.


:oldlol:

[Lakers Fan]

Nobody really can guard CP3, though.


There is this guy, I think his name is called Deron Williams....

[plowking]

There is this guy, I think his name is called Deron Williams....

His name is called... lol

[Zak]

it's hilarious how cp3 rips **** up against every team except UTAH where his biggest rival happens to play...

[omarnyc]

hell no its not disrespectful, while on the court everybody gets the same treatment. i remember when people was mad at ai cuz he didnt bow down to jordan. they all get a check to play nba ball, im sure cp will show kidd all the respect in the world when he retires, but long as he's on the court he gets sonned.

[BloodyRain]

I saw him do that. And c'mon what's wrong with it?

It's his first playoff game, and he played it like a MVP. Obviously the guy's gonna get super excited and have some trash talkin, chest pumpin, shirt poppin, pie eatin, eyebrow raisin...

It all makes the playoffs so entertaining.

[steve]

There is this guy, I think his name is called Deron Williams....
This would be true, if Williams was the only one covering him, which isn't the case. Utah revolves their entire defense game plan around getting the ball out of Paul's hands as quickly as possible. They'll double Paul at almost every possible instance to try and make him cough up the ball and if Paul gets past them they'll swarm him to make sure he doesn't have an easy lane to the basket or very good angles. It's pretty overstated to say that Williams has out played all that often and it's really just the Jazz as a team executing better.

With that being said, he's still having one of the best seasons for a point guard ever. Not only did he lead the league in assists (with the more assists than any player in 11 years) but he also has the second highest assist to turnover ratio of any player who averaged over 10 assists a game (Muggsy Bogues had a nearly 6:1 a/t ratio in 89-90, but it gets off set when you also factor in that he scored less 10 points per game). It's just phenomenal what he's doing this season.

It seems to be the biggest problem the detractors seem to have is that he's not a leader, but how many other 22 year olds have been able to lead their teams to 56 wins in a season? Not only that but unless something odd happens in the MVP voting, he'll be the third youngest player to finish in the top 3 in the MVP voting (Bob McAdoo and Lebron James are the only two who were younger).

[clayton]

He's just super-cocky. I have never seen him like this. I want a team kill them just too see him in tears. :)

[J.NelsonIsGOAT]

that is a shame, he should respect J Kidd

[New Jazzy Nets]

I think all the paul love should be disrespectful to one guy, and his name is david west, kid is a beast and gets no dap, chris paul makes him better this and that, while he does somewhat Tyson Chandlers success is more credit to paul then west's is. And the Jazz dont usually trap him, thats the Mavs they may both wear blue on the road but you should notice one jersey says Dallas and the other says Utah.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

I really want to see him try his whole "intimidating" things against Duncan and Bowen.

Chris Paul agaisnt Spurs.

11/9/07- 18 on 8-15 shooting with 7 assists.

1/26/08- 17 on 8-16 shooting with 11 assists.

2/23/08- 27 on 11-23 shooting with 4 assists.

3/12/08- 26 on 12-19 shooting with 17 assists.


Outcome


11/9/08- Lost by 12 in New Orleans.

1/26/08- Won by 24 in San Antonio.

2/23/08- Lost by 9 in San Antonio.

3/12/08- Won by 25 in New Orleans.




Doesn't look like Chris Paul has to do anything to intimidate the Spurs, they clearly already know how good he is and can be on any given night. He is Averaging 22 a game against them, about 9-10 assists a game, and he shoots 53% against them.

[GOBB]

How is it disrespectful? lol You dudes act like these players are church mouses on the court. Kidd talks junk and even taunts here and there.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

How is it disrespectful? lol You dudes act like these players are church mouses on the court. Kidd talks junk and even taunts here and there.
Same Jason Kidd who beat his wife right?

[Younggrease]

Doesn't look like Chris Paul has to do anything to intimidate the Spurs, they clearly already know how good he is and can be on any given night. He is Averaging 22 a game against them, about 9-10 assists a game, and he shoots 53% against them.

Yeah we all know the Spurs take the regular season seriously:rolleyes: I mean Lebron dominated them last regular season..by your logic Lebron and the Cavs would kill them in the playoffs..:rolleyes:

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Yeah we all know the Spurs take the regular season seriously:rolleyes: I mean Lebron dominated them last regular season..by your logic Lebron and the Cavs would kill them in the playoffs..:rolleyes:

Well San Antonio won 56 games this year during the regular season. By your logic they could have won all 82? I don't by the bull**** that they don't take the regular season seriously.

[Jailblazers7]

I like it. I want to see fire in the playoffs and I want to see emotions.

[GOBB]

Well San Antonio won 56 games this year during the regular season. By your logic they could have won all 82? I don't by the bull**** that they don't take the regular season seriously.

They dont, they just so happen to win 53+ wins 10 out of the last 11yrs (would have won 50+ if not for the strike year).

[New Jazzy Nets]

Yeah we all know the Spurs take the regular season seriously:rolleyes: I mean Lebron dominated them last regular season..by your logic Lebron and the Cavs would kill them in the playoffs..:rolleyes:

Cavs would kill the spurs in the playoffs, its the finals that the spurs would beat them in.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

They dont, they just so happen to win 53+ wins 10 out of the last 11yrs (would have won 50+ if not for the strike year).

I'm sorry but that's bull****, they take it just as serious as any other team, you can say they prepare themselves for the playoffs better, but to say they don't take it seriously, insane.

[A Roc 23]

So it's like that is it? Typical ISH. Chris Paul is dominating and Greasy and the haters come out to bash him for "losing his cool."

The facts are that it was CP3's first playoff game, he dominated and his team outscored the Mavs by like 26 in a 24 minut span. Jason Kidd couldn't stop him, he was straight on fire and his team was playing at an amazing level. Who wouldn't be pumping their chest? Kobe does it and it's all good.

Oh wait, Kobe gets hate when he does this? WRONG. I've seen some Laker fans try to act like it's some double standard, but show me a thread bashing Kobe for playing out of his mind offensively/defensively, racking up assists and winning a playoff game. You won't find it. People bashed Kobe during the Nuggets game because he was shaking his finger and talking smack when he was 5-17 from the field.

Another thing that should be pointed out is how mentally weak the Mavericks are. If I was the coach of a team playing the Mavericks, I'd tell my players to get in their face and psych them out. Once Dirk, Terry or Howard gets rattled they start chucking, even if it means fading away from 20 feet.

Chris Paul's fire is one of the things that make him a special player and what will solidify him as a legend one day.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Didn't mean to quote GOBB and say that, apology.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Cavs would kill the spurs in the playoffs, its the finals that the spurs would beat them in.
What no...thats just gross. The Cavs are seriously terrible.

[Allstar24]

Who cares? Lots of players say lots of things on the court...isn't that what being competitive is? If one of you clowns played as well as Paul did in his playoff debut, I bet you'd be talking trash too.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Who cares? Lots of players say lots of things on the court...isn't that what being competitive is? If one of you clowns played as well as Paul did in his playoff debut, I bet you'd be talking trash too.
Yeah but pretty much everyone makes Kidd look silly it just makes Paul seem like less of a player to actually brag about such an easy task.

[New Jazzy Nets]

What no...thats just gross. The Cavs are seriously terrible.

Since it can't happen I made a joke.

[Loki]

If Kobe did it, therre would be a 5 page thread on how cocky and disrespectful it was. :lol

Difference is, Paul actually had a superb game, and "he can't guard me" is an apt description of what actually transpired. In Kobe's case, he's mugging for the crowd, shaking his head and making comments when he's 5-19 from the field, as if he just had a monster game or had hit huge shots in a close game.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Since it can't happen I made a joke.
I didn't know mormons made jokes...:hammerhead:

[Spudjjay]

This isn`t the passing over of any torch. CP3 is better than Kidd ever was period.

[bokes15]

If Kobe did it, therre would be a 5 page thread on how cocky and disrespectful it was. :lol

Anyway, I thought it was pretty cool. I like to see intensity and swagger on the court. I'd probably do the same if I was burning a top 5-10 PG of all-time in my first playoff game.
What are you talking about. Kobe does it EVERY GAME. Do you not see him talking after each made basket? He does it so often that it's not news.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

This isn`t the passing over of any torch. CP3 is better than Kidd ever was period.
paul isnt even the best pg right now in the nba :banghead:

[Spudjjay]

paul isnt even the best pg right now in the nba :banghead:

Maybe he isn`t, but CP3 is still a hell of alot better than Kidd.

[BryantGasol89]

paul isnt even the best pg right now in the nba :banghead:

Then who is? And don't say Nash. The stats speak for themselves, CP3 is streets ahead of any PG in the NBA right now. And much better than Kidd too.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Maybe he isn`t, but CP3 is still a hell of alot better than Kidd.

Who is better than Paul?

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Maybe he isn`t, but CP3 is still a hell of alot better than Kidd.
You are just a bandwagon guy all around arn't you? Jumping on the Celtics and CP both probaly the most overrated things in the NBA. CP only owns Kidd at this current time because Kidd is playing for a team hes been on for 30 days. It is a matter of transition between new teams. Jason Kidd is a walking double double. His career stats are really impressive. Paul has a good supporting cast and he doesn't make them better. Paul making people better is just a myth. The players averaged the same stats when he wasn't playing on the team. West had identical stats. Peja a few years ago was nominated for MVP of league. I suppose it is all CP tho. Kidd and Nash actually improve the teams they are on drastically. Kidd took the Nets places when the Nets were really good. Nash took the suns from winning 15 games in a season to 60 games. CP is just a product of great jump shooters.

[New Jazzy Nets]

I didn't know mormons made jokes...:hammerhead:

I didn't know Spurs fans used stereotypes. And apparently you missed my Marko Jaric joke about a week back.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

I didn't know Spurs fans used stereotypes. And apparently you missed my Marko Jaric joke about a week back.
I haven't been posting for a week. I just started posting again when the playoffs started. Why wouldn't you think Spurs fans use stereotypes? We are all evil after all.

[A Roc 23]

You are just a bandwagon guy all around arn't you? Jumping on the Celtics and CP both probaly the most overrated things in the NBA. CP only owns Kidd at this current time because Kidd is playing for a team hes been on for 30 days. It is a matter of transition between new teams. Jason Kidd is a walking double double. His career stats are really impressive. Paul has a good supporting cast and he doesn't make them better. Paul making people better is just a myth. The players averaged the same stats when he wasn't playing on the team. West had identical stats. Peja a few years ago was nominated for MVP of league. I suppose it is all CP tho. Kidd and Nash actually improve the teams they are on drastically. Kidd took the Nets places when the Nets were really good. Nash took the suns from winning 15 games in a season to 60 games. CP is just a product of great jump shooters.

You are out of your mind. CP owns Kidd now and forever. It has nothing to do with Kidd being on a new team. It's been 2 months now by the way, not "30 days."

Jason Kidd is a walking double-double? :roll: He has 35 compared to Chris Paul's 57. Where the hell do you get this **** from?

Chris Paul led the league in assists and flat out lead his young team to the 2nd best record in the West. His offense makes the team better then they ever could've been with Kidd. Chris Paul is the leader and he sets up his good shooters in good position. He's working with what he has. :confusedshrug: West and Chandler are better then ever, Paul gives them everything they need. Peja was an MVP candidate for about 2 months 5 years ago. :oldlol: You and everyone else in the world realizes that he is a role player now.

I just don't understand your thought process. Kidd and Nash made their teams a lot better in the past, but where would the Hornets be without CP3? They'd go from 2nd in the West to awful. Chris Paul led his team to 57 wins and just dominated the Mavericks. A prime Jason Kidd on this Hornets team still wouldn't make them better. They'd be worse in my opinion. Chris Paul's offense is so far ahead of anything Kidd has ever given you.

For the record, Jason Kidd really hasn't made ANY of the Mavs players better. Terry, Damp, Howard, etc... aren't any better then the first couple months of the season. Dirk started off poorly and has been getting better every month of the season so far.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Then who is? And don't say Nash. The stats speak for themselves, CP3 is streets ahead of any PG in the NBA right now. And much better than Kidd too.
Nash is better then CP. Deron Williams is superior. Gilbert Arenas is better when healthy, Baron Davis and I really do believe Kidd is a better all around player.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

You are out of your mind. CP owns Kidd now and forever. It has nothing to do with Kidd being on a new team. It's been 2 months now by the way, not "30 days."

Jason Kidd is a walking double-double? :roll: He has 35 compared to Chris Paul's 57. Where the hell do you get this **** from?

Chris Paul led the league in assists and flat out lead his young team to the 2nd best record in the West. His offense makes the team better then they ever could've been with Kidd. Chris Paul is the leader and he sets up his good shooters in good position. He's working with what he has. :confusedshrug: West and Chandler are better then ever, Paul gives them everything they need. Peja was an MVP candidate for about 2 months 5 years ago. :oldlol: You and everyone else in the world realizes that he is a role player now.

I just don't understand your thought process. Kidd and Nash made their teams a lot better in the past, but where would the Hornets be without CP3? They'd go from 2nd in the West to awful. Chris Paul led his team to 57 wins and just dominated the Mavericks. A prime Jason Kidd on this Hornets team still wouldn't make them better. They'd be worse in my opinion. Chris Paul's offense is so far ahead of anything Kidd has ever given you.

For the record, Jason Kidd really hasn't made ANY of the Mavs players better. Terry, Damp, Howard, etc... aren't any better then the first couple months of the season. Dirk started off poorly and has been getting better every month of the season so far.
Kidd has 100 career triple doubles. He is amazing. Enough said look at video of his first triple double, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9Ynr4o5CPQ. He is a legend. Chris Paul is just a fad.

[Diesel J]

Difference is, Paul actually had a superb game, and "he can't guard me" is an apt description of what actually transpired. In Kobe's case, he's mugging for the crowd, shaking his head and making comments when he's 5-19 from the field, as if he just had a monster game or had hit huge shots in a close game.


Kobe was doing last night in the 4th after scoring on Jr Smith and Anthony carter:oldlol: Dude was mean mugging and shaking his head on some "you can't guard me" ish...:oldlol:

[G-train]

In my 15 years of watching and playing bball I have never seen someone run down the court beating their chest screaming "He cant guard me" who isnt a complete douche bag.

Its game one, in a series he could still get outplayed in, and still lose. He has achieved nothing in the context of the playoffs. Its pretty laughable.

He has had a great season, and there is nothing wrong with trash talk. But that is just d!ck head behaviour. Its almost laughable. Hopefully they face the jazz and he gets abused as per normal and it shuts his midget mouth. Even better Kidd outplays him and the Mavs win, and Kidd says nothing. :pimp:

[G-train]

CP3 has had an MVP caliber season. When he strings at least 3 in a row we'll start the comparisons with the all time great careers, who played at MVP level for 5-10 years, not just one. He is on track if he maintains this level.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

CP3 has had an MVP caliber season. When he strings at least 3 in a row we'll start the comparisons with the all time great careers, who played at MVP level for 5-10 years, not just one. He is on track if he maintains this level.

We'll see in a few years according to that logic. How many point guards had an overall better season this year than Chris Paul did? It's now, no need to dwell on the past, most people haven't seen the old time greats play, just highlights.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

And you couldn't guard him either during the final game of the regular season, when he torched your ass for 27/10/10. Oh, but I forgot, you WANTED to play Dallas in the first round, and the seeding didn't really matter because you choked away your shot at MVP by getting humiliated by that other guy in LA, right? Honestly, I still have this guy getting bounced in the first round. I'd be shocked if he can even take Dallas to 7 games.

Mavs had seeding to play for, the Hornets didn't?

[KWALI]

I loved KJ's game, but I'll say it again, if you put KJ on these Hornets I don't see them winning 55 games.

Kevin Johnson was definitely as good as CP3 now and he was bigger too.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

After LA beat SAC, NOH was locked in at #2 (they couldn't move up to #1). But the game would have mattered for NOH if they hadn't lost to SAC.

I know the Hornets had nothing to play for? That's what I am saying?

[PsychoWorm]

Devin Harris would be useful right about now.

[iDunk]

If that's trash talking, then Rasheed should be in hell.

[ShowtymeCA2NC]

Uh, yes there would be a problem for Kidd in this series.

CP3 currently is a better player than Kidd ever was in his prime.


U cant be serious ...dude was a walking Triple Double in his prime..

Oakland Cali's Finsest

[steve]

U cant be serious ...dude was a walking Triple Double in his prime..

Oakland Cali's Finsest
Well, he's shooting better than Kidd, he's put up more assists, more points, more steals, and less turnovers in one single season than Kidd ever has (and has as many wins as Kidd's teams have ever achieved).

[ShowtymeCA2NC]

Well, he's shooting better than Kidd, he's put up more assists, more points, more steals, and less turnovers in one single season than Kidd ever has (and has as many wins as Kidd's teams have ever achieved).


he took the Sorry azz nets to the finals two years in a row..CP3 hasnt accomplished that...dont get me wrong,CP3 is great and his jumpshot is better,but Kidd is a HOF

[steve]

he took the Sorry azz nets to the finals two years in a row..CP3 hasnt accomplished that...dont get me wrong,CP3 is great and his jumpshot is better,but Kidd is a HOF
That was in a conference that had only one other 50 win team, it's a little different competition than what they're facing now.

[ShowtymeCA2NC]

That was in a conference that had only one other 50 win team, it's a little different competition than what they're facing now.


right u are mi amigo,but at the same time,cp3 aint even out of the first round yet..lets give it sometime before we start to say hes so much better then Kidd was in his prime..CP3 aint that much better than Deron williams

[HorryIsMyMVP]

right u are mi amigo,but at the same time,cp3 aint even out of the first round yet..lets give it sometime before we start to say hes so much better then Kidd was in his prime..CP3 isn't better than Deron williams
correction.

[steve]

right u are mi amigo,but at the same time,cp3 aint even out of the first round yet..lets give it sometime before we start to say hes so much better then Kidd was in his prime..CP3 aint that much better than Deron williams
I'm not saying he's better than Kidd on a whole, but he's having a better season this year than Kidd ever had.

[206kid]

That's so disrespectful, He's a damn rookie, don't talk to a legend who's not in his prime anymore like that. That's like Dwight Howard dunking over Shaq, and scoring 40 and 19 on him and saying he can't guard me, shaq isnt in his prime so I that is real disrespectful don't ever disrespect kidd like that again

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

That's so disrespectful, He's a damn rookie, don't talk to a legend who's not in his prime anymore like that. That's like Dwight Howard dunking over Shaq, and scoring 40 and 19 on him and saying he can't guard me, shaq isnt in his prime so I that is real disrespectful don't ever disrespect kidd like that again

Chris Paul is a rookie? Interesting.

[Bodin]

I'm sorry but that's bull****, they take it just as serious as any other team, you can say they prepare themselves for the playoffs better, but to say they don't take it seriously, insane.

I think you're missing the point of 'taking is seriously'. They don't play their stars to death (less mpg) like some of the other teams. I think that what was meant...

[yeaaaman]

You are out of your mind. CP owns Kidd now and forever. It has nothing to do with Kidd being on a new team. It's been 2 months now by the way, not "30 days."

Jason Kidd is a walking double-double? :roll: He has 35 compared to Chris Paul's 57. Where the hell do you get this **** from?

Chris Paul led the league in assists and flat out lead his young team to the 2nd best record in the West. His offense makes the team better then they ever could've been with Kidd. Chris Paul is the leader and he sets up his good shooters in good position. He's working with what he has. :confusedshrug: West and Chandler are better then ever, Paul gives them everything they need. Peja was an MVP candidate for about 2 months 5 years ago. :oldlol: You and everyone else in the world realizes that he is a role player now.

I just don't understand your thought process. Kidd and Nash made their teams a lot better in the past, but where would the Hornets be without CP3? They'd go from 2nd in the West to awful. Chris Paul led his team to 57 wins and just dominated the Mavericks. A prime Jason Kidd on this Hornets team still wouldn't make them better. They'd be worse in my opinion. Chris Paul's offense is so far ahead of anything Kidd has ever given you.

For the record, Jason Kidd really hasn't made ANY of the Mavs players better. Terry, Damp, Howard, etc... aren't any better then the first couple months of the season. Dirk started off poorly and has been getting better every month of the season so far.

how can you say that and then use stats from this year to back it up? kidd is 35, paul is 22. enough said, jason kidd is a legend. its too bad we live in such a what have you done for me lately world

[sulsuvtut27]

trash talk on the court = bueno
trash talk off the court = no bueno.

and the first game of the series is all about intimidation. that was the word of the weekend. everyone was trying to intimidate the other team.

On this board we speak english, not your made up language.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

On this board we speak english, not your made up language.

It's not exactly a made up language, just not English.

[sulsuvtut27]

It's not exactly a made up language, just not English.

well what language is it??? Canada??

[BIZARRO]

Just had a blast watching CP3 tonight.

and I'll say it again....

He is playing at the highest level for a point guard since Magic Johnson.

Don't care if some of you aren't on the boat yet...
























You will be.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

well what language is it??? Canada??
Didn't know Canada was a language? Last time I checked most of them spoke French or English? Bueno is actually Spanish, it means good, thought someone who follows someone named Lopez would know that.

[c_az_a]

According to S.A.S. after burning Kidd on another basket, Paul was beating his chest and kept yelling out "He can't guard me!". Is this disrespectful to a future hall of famer, or just the passing of the guards from the big older point guard to the super-quick swagged out baby-faced gangster. It was kind of sad watching Kidd tryna chase down Paul the entire game, and if Game 1 was any indication, Kidd is gonna be made looked really bad the rest of the series.

Imagine Kobe saying that with his ridicolous shooting percentage. At least Paul is hitting 60% of his shots, dishing out 15+ assists, and actually makes "He can't guard me!" FACT!

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Imagine Kobe saying that with his ridicolous shooting percentage. At least Paul is hitting 60% of his shots, dishing out 15+ assists, and actually makes "He can't guard me!" FACT!

Took the words right out of my mouth, he was unbelievable tonight as well.

[dafunkphenom]

Imagine Kobe saying that with his ridicolous shooting percentage. At least Paul is hitting 60% of his shots, dishing out 15+ assists, and actually makes "He can't guard me!" FACT!
Kidd is officially old and officially OWNED!

[Diesel J]

Imagine Kobe saying that with his ridicolous shooting percentage. At least Paul is hitting 60% of his shots, dishing out 15+ assists, and actually makes "He can't guard me!" FACT!

true:oldlol:

[mjbulls23]

Imagine Kobe saying that with his ridicolous shooting percentage. At least Paul is hitting 60% of his shots, dishing out 15+ assists, and actually makes "He can't guard me!" FACT!

R.I.P http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/frown.gif


just wishing you condolences before the Kobe nut riders come and tear you apart for 'hating' :(

[Spudjjay]

Kidd is officially old and officially OWNED!

:oldlol:

Even if he wasn't old he would still be getting his a$$ handed to him by CP3.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

:oldlol:

Even if he wasn't old he would still be getting his a$$ handed to him by CP3.

It makes people feel better if they have an excuse, other than the truth.

[mjbulls23]

Just had a blast watching CP3 tonight.

and I'll say it again....

He is playing at the highest level for a point guard since Magic Johnson.

Don't care if some of you aren't on the boat yet...
























You will be.


on second thought, I am getting more and more impressed every game I've seen him play this season, which really hasn't been very many games to be honest.

If he keeps this play up through next season then maybe we can call him the best peak PG since Magic. Until then I think its just too early IMO. :ohwell:

[dafunkphenom]

He's better than Nash prime and that's a tough thing for me to say. Although I still think Nash is the second best PG in the league.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

He's better than Nash prime and that's a tough thing for me to say. Although I still think Nash is the second best PG in the league.

He will win his share of MVP's as well, it's only what? His second year?

[Glove_20]

What Chris Paul has done this year truly is amazing. Where does he rank with the other Great PGs?


I'd say he is better than Nash, Kidd, or Stockton have ever been. However, I'd say he is not better than GP or KJ. Close and could go either way, but I'd give the edges to GP and KJ. KJ was very similar to CP3 in the things he did. Both PGs could score efficiently and spread the ball around.

I heard someone say that KJ couldn't do what CP3 has done this year and that is incorrect. Kevin Johnson led his Suns to not 1, but two 55+ win seasons without Barkley. He did that putting up similar to or better numbers than Chris Paul as well.


I'd say both KJ and CP3 are pretty close. Both can score well, and pass well. Both are solid defenders too. However, KJ scored more efficiently. Compare their season numbers in their most important statistics:


C.Paul

21.1ppg
11.6apg
48.8% FG


K.Johnson

22.5ppg
11.4apg
49.9% FG



As you can see, it's very close, but KJ has the edge. Truth is KJ has been doing what CP3 has done this year for 4 years of his peak.

Not to mention Kevin Johnson that year in 1990 took his team to the WCF.





So I wouldn't put CP3 over Kevin Johnson yet. Though I'd put him over Stockton, Kidd, or Nash at their peaks.

[BIZARRO]

on second thought, I am getting more and more impressed every game I've seen him play this season, which really hasn't been very many games to be honest.

If he keeps this play up through next season then maybe we can call him the best peak PG since Magic. Until then I think its just too early IMO. :ohwell:


I can see your reasoning bro, but I just look at it differently. :cheers:

I mean, if a guy is playing at a certain level, I don't need to see a season or two more. My point is that he is AT that level.

He may fall off next year, or the year after, or next series etc.. But now IMO he is playing CURRENTLY at a level I haven't seen since the great Magic Johnson.

[BIZARRO]

What Chris Paul has done this year truly is amazing. Where does he rank with the other Great PGs?


I'd say he is better than Nash, Kidd, or Stockton have ever been. However, I'd say he is not better than GP or KJ. Close and could go either way, but I'd give the edges to GP and KJ. KJ was very similar to CP3 in the things he did. Both PGs could score efficiently and spread the ball around.

I heard someone say that KJ couldn't do what CP3 has done this year and that is incorrect. Kevin Johnson led his Suns to not 1, but two 55+ win seasons without Barkley. He did that putting up similar to or better numbers than Chris Paul as well.


I'd say both KJ and CP3 are pretty close. Both can score well, and pass well. Both are solid defenders too. However, KJ scored more efficiently. Compare their season numbers in their most important statistics:


C.Paul

21.1ppg
11.6apg
48.8% FG


K.Johnson

22.5ppg
11.4apg
49.9% FG



As you can see, it's very close, but KJ has the edge. Truth is KJ has been doing what CP3 has done this year for 4 years of his peak.

Not to mention Kevin Johnson that year in 1990 took his team to the WCF.





So I wouldn't put CP3 over Kevin Johnson yet. Though I'd put him over Stockton, Kidd, or Nash at their peaks.



Wait a minute. Even taking KJ's BEST year, which you did, you neglected to point out that...

CP3- 2.71 SPG
KJ in that year- 1.28 SPG


CP3 - 2.51 TO
KJ in that year- 3.55 TO


I mean the numbers you posted were close, but THESE numbers are DRASTICALLY different in CP3's favor.

CP3 SPG/TO is over 1/1 where KJ's is almost 1 to 3; a HUUUGE difference.
CP3 is just CRAZY efficient.

KJ was good, don't get me wrong, but if you watched these last two games, and this season as a whole, CP3 is playing at a level never touched by KJ.

The Hornets would not IMO have won 55 games in this Western Conference with KJ. Flat out.

[Glove_20]

Wait a minute. Even taking KJ's BEST year, which you did, you neglected to point out that...

CP3- 2.71 SPG
KJ in that year- 1.28 SPG


CP3 - 2.51 TO
KJ in that year- 3.55 TO


I mean the numbers you posted were close, but THESE numbers are DRASTICALLY different in CP3's favor.

CP3 SPG/TO is over 1/1 where KJ's is almost 1 to 3; a HUUUGE difference.
CP3 is just CRAZY efficient.

KJ was good, don't get me wrong, but if you watched these last two games, and this season as a whole, CP3 is playing at a level never touched by KJ.

The Hornets would not IMO have won 55 games in this Western Conference with KJ. Flat out.


Well I took "One of" KJ's best seasons. You could make an argument for some other seasons being KJ's best.

Let me throw another one at you:


22.2ppg
10.1apg
51.6% FG
2.1spg

And this is actually the only year in history where someone got 20/10/50%/2spg.

Paul had a higher Assist to TO ratio, while KJ had a higher FG%. Steals don't tell the whole story on defense, and their steals are still close. I'd give KJ the edge on defense, but it could go either way. Statistically KJ was a better scorer, while Paul a better passer. KJ averaged more points and had a higher FG% by nearly 3% while Paul got one more assist and had a higher Assist to TO Ratio.


And let's remember what kind of team KJ took. Similar to Paul's situation actually.

Kevin Johnson took a lottery 28 win Sun's team to the WCF the following year in his 1st full year in Phoenix. So Kevin Johnson also made quite a winning impact.

[yobore]

The big difference is those KJ teams were much faster paced. Also he never shot 3's.

[mjbulls23]

I can see your reasoning bro, but I just look at it differently. :cheers:

I mean, if a guy is playing at a certain level, I don't need to see a season or two more. My point is that he is AT that level.

He may fall off next year, or the year after, or next series etc.. But now IMO he is playing CURRENTLY at a level I haven't seen since the great Magic Johnson.

:cheers:

[GOBB]

CP3 is filthy. Deron who? Deron huh?

[Glove_20]

The big difference is those KJ teams were much faster paced. Also he never shot 3's.

That is true, however the player who was able to generate such a pace was Kevin Johnson.

3 pointers weren't used as much back in the day, if they were though you could expect KJ to get a little more points as well.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

CP3 is filthy. Deron who? Deron huh?

If they matchup, CP3 will get the best of him in in this years playoffs! Book it!

[GOBB]

lol@not being better than KJ and GP. Typical.

[Glove_20]

lol@not being better than KJ and GP. Typical.
Whats wrong? He's not better than either KJ or GP.

[GOBB]

Whats wrong? He's not better than either KJ or GP.

Only in your head. :roll:

[grimreaper1377]

trash talk on the court = bueno
trash talk off the court = no bueno.

and the first game of the series is all about intimidation. that was the word of the weekend. everyone was trying to intimidate the other team.

DeShawn Stevenson. :rockon:

[dafunkphenom]

DeShawn Stevenson. :rockon:
You mean Deshawn "The new living legend" Stevenson.

[Glove_20]

Only in your head. :roll:
:rolleyes:
My head best represents reality

But you are one of the posters who more just says things. I am a poster who more backs up myself with arguments, and reasonably chooses the side that has stronger arguments.

[GOBB]

:rolleyes:
My head best represents reality

But you are one of the posters who more just says things. I am a poster who more backs up myself with arguments, and reasonably chooses the side that has stronger arguments.

You're biased and all you care about is GP/KJ when it comes to comparisons. You value and rate them (KJ really) so much its hilarious. GP is a stud, so we'll leave him out the equation but your love affair with KJ is comedy. But believe what you want. :pimp:

[sbw19]

Factoring in 3PT and FT%, CP3 is more efficient a scorer (at age what 22?) than KJ ever was. Reality.

[juju151111]

The big difference is those KJ teams were much faster paced. Also he never shot 3's.
cp3 barley takes 4s either.kj stats are very similar to cp3 so they both made an impact.

[Glove_20]

You're biased and all you care about is GP/KJ when it comes to comparisons. You value and rate them (KJ really) so much its hilarious. GP is a stud, so we'll leave him out the equation but your love affair with KJ is comedy. But believe what you want. :pimp:

GOBB, do you just "say" these things? Or can you actually back these things up?


Ask yourself one thing, if KJ isn't that good, then why can't I argue against KJ arguments? And strong KJ arguments from someone like GMAT.


Why is that? Why is that in any debate between KJ vs. ____ that is reasonable, (CP3, AI, Kidd, Nash, all reasonable), you would lose. I've seen plenty of times GMAT's posts driving you away.


Now before you change the subject and say something about me and GMAT, I want to focus you back to the main question. Why can't you ARGUE KJ isn't as good as he is.




To me honestly, if you can't argue something, and just believe it, then it's just in your head and you're in self denial. :confusedshrug:
It's happened to me before, and I change my opinion (Away from GP plenty of times).





So bottom line. If KJ isn't as good as I say he is, then why can't you argue that?

[Glove_20]

Factoring in 3PT and FT%, CP3 is more efficient a scorer (at age what 22?) than KJ ever was. Reality.


Well first of all nobody took 3 pointers in the late 80s to early 90s. So you can't blame KJ for that. Back in the later parts of the 90s when 3s were starting to be taken, KJ shot over 40% regularly.

2nd of all KJ actually has a higher FT% careerwise than Paul, and got to the line much more often.

Not to mention the fact that KJ's FG% has always been higher than Paul's during KJ's peak.



So don't know where you got that? And to finish it off KJ also had a higher ppg.





What were you saying again? KJ scores more, higher FG%, and higher FT%, and hit a higher % of his 3s when he took them regularly like the rest of the league.

Did you have an argument? :oldlol:

[sbw19]

You're biased and all you care about is GP/KJ when it comes to comparisons. You value and rate them (KJ really) so much its hilarious. GP is a stud, so we'll leave him out the equation but your love affair with KJ is comedy. But believe what you want. :pimp:

I don't believe he can realize CP3 has had better two first playoff games than both of these guys and definitely has the potential of eclipsing both when all is said and done.

[Glove_20]

I don't believe he can realize CP3 has had better two first playoff games than both of these guys and definitely has the potential of eclipsing both when all is said and done.

I believe in reasonability, objectivity, empirical evidence, and balanced criteria.

If you want to go into a long intelligent debate, maybe then you can take out your bias, see both sides, and choose, and I'm sure you'll see KJ is the choice.

[B-Jax]

I believe in reasonability, objectivity, empirical evidence, and balanced criteria.

If you want to go into a long intelligent debate, maybe then you can take out your bias, see both sides, and choose, and I'm sure you'll see KJ is the choice.


Since this is Chris Paul's first time in the playoffs, there was no way of knowing how he would play. He has played very well so far. Kevin Johnson was a great player and you brought up some good points, but it is far too soon to compare a 22 year old Chris Paul with guys like Gary Payton and Kevin Johnson.

[Glove_20]

Since this is Chris Paul's first time in the playoffs, there was no way of knowing how he would play. He has played very well so far. Kevin Johnson was a great player and you brought up some good points, but it is far too soon to compare a 22 year old Chris Paul with guys like Gary Payton and Kevin Johnson.
Yeah I agree. No doubt CP3 has the potential to pass both players. I'm just saying right now he isn't above either of them.


But there is no doubt CP3 is something special.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

[QUOTE=Glove_20]

2nd of all KJ actually has a higher FT% careerwise than Paul, and got to the line much more often.

Not to mention the fact that KJ's FG% has always been higher than Paul's during KJ's peak.


QUOTE]

Give Paul a few more years, he is only 22. Of course he got to the line more than Paul has.

And his FG% was higher during his peak? So what, CP3 hasn't even hit his yet. Give it time.

[steve]

I believe in reasonability, objectivity, empirical evidence, and balanced criteria.

If you want to go into a long intelligent debate, maybe then you can take out your bias, see both sides, and choose, and I'm sure you'll see KJ is the choice.
If that were true you wouldn't discount like a significantly higher assist to turnover ratio (3.2 to 4.6), less of an impact on the offense as a whole (Johnson contributing to under 40% of the Suns offense that season to Paul contributing to nearly 50% of the Hornets this season), and signficantly more steals (Johnson didn't even get over 100). Plus he wasn't the main focal point of the Suns offense that season either (Tom Chambers was a 2000 point scorer). It was a very good season, but taken in the context of the era that he played in, it wasn't more impressive than Paul's season. He was more turnover prone than Paul and less of the catalyst in the Suns offense.

[Glove_20]

Give Paul a few more years, he is only 22. Of course he got to the line more than Paul has.

And his FG% was higher during his peak? So what, CP3 hasn't even hit his yet. Give it time.
Yes I agree with that. I'm not saying by any view that Paul will never surpass KJ or GP. No way am I saying that.

However I'm just saying right now he isn't at KJ or GP's level.

[Glove_20]

If that were true you wouldn't discount like a significantly higher assist to turnover ratio (3.2 to 4.6), less of an impact on the offense as a whole (Johnson contributing to under 40% of the Suns offense that season to Paul contributing to nearly 50% of the Hornets this season), and signficantly more steals (Johnson didn't even get over 100). Plus he wasn't the main focal point of the Suns offense that season either (Tom Chambers was a 2000 point scorer). It was a very good season, but taken in the context of the era that he played in, it wasn't more impressive than Paul's season. He was more turnover prone than Paul and less of the catalyst in the Suns offense.

At the same time, who was able to run his offense better? Who was able to bring more success to his offense? I mean that's a PG's job too isn't it?

Kevin Johnson brought out the best from his teammate Tom Chambers. Chambers though had some good years in Seattle, had his best years with KJ and the Suns. He even once said in his Ring Ceremony (Unrelated to KJ), that "KJ made me the player I am today"

Comparing the player to their respective offense has a flaw because the Sun's offense was better than the Hornet's offense. And many times it's up to the PG to decide how good their offense will be.


I pointed out another year where KJ got 2.1spg, 22/10, with a 52% FG.
But steals shouldn't be that important in defense, and KJ has been an underrated defender all his career.

[B-Jax]

Yes I agree with that. I'm not saying by any view that Paul will never surpass KJ or GP. No way am I saying that.

However I'm just saying right now he isn't at KJ or GP's level.


He'll have to play in at least two or three playoffs before he can be on Johnson's and Payton's level. These guys were in the playoffs regularly from 1992-1998.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Yes I agree with that. I'm not saying by any view that Paul will never surpass KJ or GP. No way am I saying that.

However I'm just saying right now he isn't at KJ or GP's level.

I understand what you're trying to say, IMO Paul will surpass that level, but it's just too early to even compare, I mean this kid is still only 22.

It's going to be scary seeing him in his prime.

[sbw19]

Well first of all nobody took 3 pointers in the late 80s to early 90s. So you can't blame KJ for that. Back in the later parts of the 90s when 3s were starting to be taken, KJ shot over 40% regularly.

2nd of all KJ actually has a higher FT% careerwise than Paul, and got to the line much more often.

Not to mention the fact that KJ's FG% has always been higher than Paul's during KJ's peak.



So don't know where you got that? And to finish it off KJ also had a higher ppg.





What were you saying again? KJ scores more, higher FG%, and higher FT%, and hit a higher % of his 3s when he took them regularly like the rest of the league.

Did you have an argument? :oldlol:
Well it's hard not to have an argument when Paul's shooting numbers (FG/3PT/FT) in his third season at the age of 22 are better than all of KJ's seasons except two. And you can't blame Paul for shooting the 3 well above his career 33% average this season while KJ is a 30% career 3pt shooter and for the vast majority of his career shot below 30%.

Paul in his third season averages 21.1ppg (Hornets averaged 100.9ppg) on 48.8FG%/36.93PT%/85.1FT%, 4rpg, 11.6apg (leads league), 2.7spg (leads league) & 2.5tpg.

KJ in his third season averaged 22.5 ppg (Phoenix averaged 110.1ppg) on 49.9FG%/19.53PT%(took 41 3pters)/83.8FT%, 3.6 rpg, 11.4 apg, 1.28 spg & 3.55tpg.

So you can see Paul's numbers this season which is his third are better than KJ's third season at more or less the same age (turns 23 next may) in a slower-paced era, and his performances in his first two playoff games rival not only KJ's best but also those of point guards regarded much higher than him.

And if you think he won't have a better career than KJ based on what he's capable of right now then all you have to do is watch him play ball in the playoffs for the next ten years.

[ChrisConley]

Glove... I'm missing something. You keep posting season stat comparisons between Paul and Johnson where KJs are equal to or worse than Paul's and saying that shows he's better?

[sbw19]

I believe in reasonability, objectivity, empirical evidence, and balanced criteria.

If you want to go into a long intelligent debate, maybe then you can take out your bias, see both sides, and choose, and I'm sure you'll see KJ is the choice.

You could use some of your own advice, you know.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Chris Paul also tied KJ in the most playoff games in a row with 30-10 at 2 in a row. MJ has 3, these are his first two games, that's unbelievable.

[sbw19]

Chris Paul also tied KJ in the most playoff games in a row with 30-10 at 2 in a row. MJ has 3, these are his first two games, that's unbelievable.

Tell the guy. He's just full of it. :confusedshrug:

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Tell the guy. He's just full of it. :confusedshrug:

Chris Paul is the best PG right now. KJ was back then, until CP3 hits his prime and slows down afterwards, then we can compare the numbers, but right now it's irrelevant to me.

I mean he played 13 years? And Paul is in his 3rd?

[KingJay718]

CP3 ether'ering J. Kidd is similar to when Tony Parker/Chauncey Billups ether'ed Gary Payton. The end result being, that they are done as top flight defenders (obviously).


I don't find it disrespectful at all, with what Cp3 did.

[sbw19]

Chris Paul is the best PG right now. KJ was back then, until CP3 hits his prime and slows down afterwards, then we can compare the numbers, but right now it's irrelevant to me.

I mean he played 13 years? And Paul is in his 3rd?
True, you can't compare their careers yet because Paul's has just started. But the guy's acting like KJ was at a whole different level. That's where I believe he's wrong, and I told him why.

[Glove_20]

Well it's hard not to have an argument when Paul's shooting numbers (FG/3PT/FT) in his third season at the age of 22 are better than all of KJ's seasons except two. And you can't blame Paul for shooting the 3 well above his career 33% average this season while KJ is a 30% career 3pt shooter and for the vast majority of his career shot below 30%.

Paul in his third season averages 21.1ppg (Hornets averaged 100.9ppg) on 48.8FG%/36.93PT%/85.1FT%, 4rpg, 11.6apg (leads league), 2.7spg (leads league) & 2.5tpg.

KJ in his third season averaged 22.5 ppg (Phoenix averaged 110.1ppg) on 49.9FG%/19.53PT%(took 41 3pters)/83.8FT%, 3.6 rpg, 11.4 apg, 1.28 spg & 3.55tpg.

So you can see Paul's numbers this season which is his third are better than KJ's third season at more or less the same age (turns 23 next may) in a slower-paced era, and his performances in his first two playoff games rival not only KJ's best but also those of point guards regarded much higher than him.

And if you think he won't have a better career than KJ based on what he's capable of right now then all you have to do is watch him play ball in the playoffs for the next ten years.


1. Once again you missed the point that the 3pt shot wasn't used back then. Many of KJ's 3 point attempts would then be half court, or full court shots. Which obviously bring down the 3pt % and therefore it's inaccurate to use that into context.

2. I don't see how Paul's numbers are better. KJ scored more, and scored more efficiently. Which was something you brought up earlier. KJ has a higher FG% (Most important). Here is another statistic that measures "efficient scoring"


Points Per Shot:

C.Paul: 1.31
K.Johnson: 1.43


KJ averaged more points, and was more efficient in terms of scoring. FG%, PPG, P/S, show that.



3. :oldlol:

Saying that KJ's performances in the playoffs haven't been as good as CP3's is hilarious. You obviously have never seen a Peak KJ.

Legends like Kevin Johnson stepped up in the playoffs and delivered big performances in the playoffs regularly.



4. I definately think Paul has a good potential to surpass KJ someday. I'm not a h@ter.

[Glove_20]

True, you can't compare their careers yet because Paul's has just started. But the guy's acting his KJ was at a whole different level. That's where I believe he's wrong, and I told him why.
I've repeatedly said that it's a very close comparison right now, and that Paul has a good potential to surpass KJ.


Do you want me to post all the times I have said that in this thread.
Or will you post where I said it's not even close and KJ is on a different level.

[steve]

At the same time, who was able to run his offense better? Who was able to bring more success to his offense? I mean that's a PG's job too isn't it?
Considering that the Hornets have a much smaller margin for error than the Suns, Paul has to not only be there main scorer and get the rest of teammates involved, his assist to turnover ratio is significantly better than Johnson's (his best season while averaging over 10 assists was a 3.2 assist to turnover ratio, while it's a good a/t ratio, it's nowhere in the ballpark of 4.6), Paul's assist ratio is a good bit higher (Johnson's never going over 44%, while Paul's this season was at 52%) and considering that he's contributes more to the offense than Johnson did. You try to mention that his field goal percentage is greater than Paul's but their trusFG% isn't that far off (Johnson's was hovering a little above 58% while Paul's is a little under 58%). Johnson has more career achievements (which is to be assumed considering he's finished his career), in the context of the eras they played in, he never had as good a season.

[Glove_20]

We could go on, but I have to go.


But I'll bring GMAT along nextime, and then we will have a very intelligent debate about Kevin Johnson and how good he is. I just heard from him right now, and he said that in KJ's first playoff series, KJ put up 30.7ppg and 13.0 assists. And KJ was in his 2nd year just turned 23.


But someday, ISH will see, and open their eyes to how great KJ was.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

We could go on, but I have to go.


But I'll bring GMAT along nextime, and then we will have a very intelligent debate about Kevin Johnson and how good he is. I just heard from him right now, and he said that in KJ's first playoff series, KJ put up 30.7ppg and 13.0 assists. And KJ was in his 2nd year just turned 23.


But someday, ISH will see, and open their eyes to how great KJ was.

Being a Sun's fan, I know how great he was, I just don't think it's time to debate it.

Also I think I have established myself in the few days that I have been here as a non-biased basketball fan. CP3 is a great player and seems to have a lot more in him. And KJ was an excellent player during his time, just let's enjoy the playoffs, worry about the past when Paul is in it.

[Glove_20]

Considering that the Hornets have a much smaller margin for error than the Suns, Paul has to not only be there main scorer and get the rest of teammates involved, his assist to turnover ratio is significantly better than Johnson's (his best season while averaging over 10 assists was a 3.2 assist to turnover ratio, while it's a good a/t ratio, it's nowhere in the ballpark of 4.6), Paul's assist ratio is a good bit higher (Johnson's never going over 44%, while Paul's this season was at 52%) and considering that he's contributes more to the offense than Johnson did. You try to mention that his field goal percentage is greater than Paul's but their trusFG% isn't that far off (Johnson's was hovering a little above 58% while Paul's is a little under 58%). Johnson has more career achievements (which is to be assumed considering he's finished his career), in the context of the eras they played in, he never had as good a season.

True that Paul has to do more, but at the same time you have to understand the reason KJ got more teammate help was because he brought out the best of their games and in turn they did more. Eddie Johnson, Hornacek, Chambers, all KJ's teammates, all had their best years with him. CP3 really hasn't brought out any more from anyone, however KJ brought more from each teammate. And that in turn led him to doing less overall. So it's unfair to penalize KJ for bringing and making his teammates do more and put up better numbers. Because that was also the result of KJ.

Paul's Passing/Playmaking efficiency is higher, KJ's scoring efficiency is higher, both got around same apg, KJ got a little higher ppg, it's a very close call. So let's leave it to playoff success?



In 1990 (The year we have been talking about)


Kevin Johnson first took his team past John Stockton and Malone's Jazz. And then he took them past Magic Johnson's Lakers (Lakers were still a good team in 1990), and went to the WCF.

Both Stockton and Magic had Home Court Advantage in the series by the way. Yet KJ was still able to lead his team all the way to the WCF past 2 of the greatest PGs in History in the same here.


Think about that...

[Glove_20]

Being a Sun's fan, I know how great he was, I just don't think it's time to debate it.

Also I think I have established myself in the few days that I have been here as a non-biased basketball fan. CP3 is a great player and seems to have a lot more in him. And KJ was an excellent player during his time, just let's enjoy the playoffs, worry about the past when Paul is in it.
Yeah I don't think it's time to debate it either. I just came in and saw comparisons, and I didn't want everyone thinking CP3 right now is better than KJ ever was, and hold that as a fact.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Yeah I don't think it's time to debate it either. I just came in and saw comparisons, and I didn't want everyone thinking CP3 right now is better than KJ ever was, and hold that as a fact.

I'm not criticizing you at all, alright? Haha, I just voiced my opinion and honestly I agree with what you have shown and the comparisons, I just don't think it's time. And you agree with that as well. So all is good, it's just the biased kids that ruin forums.

[Glove_20]

Oh and just to add to a topic a little more relevant to the thread.

Kidd's defense has always been overrated and it's not surprise what is happening here. Not to say Kidd right now is anywhere near his prime on the defensive end, but Kidd has always been overrated on defense.

[juju151111]

Yeah I don't think it's time to debate it either. I just came in and saw comparisons, and I didn't want everyone thinking CP3 right now is better than KJ ever was, and hold that as a fact.
cp3 averge more stls and has a better asts to TO ratio.while kj has him in FG% and ppg by 1pt.so ur cliam about ever was is dumb

[FabCasablancas]

bump -- please see original post

[allball]

Paul is fast becoming the most overrated player I've ever seen. He doesn't have the killer instinct of a winner. If he's hot he's good but if things stop going away he falls apart faster then anyone and drags his impressionable team right down with him. There is too much talent on that roster to have a hothead running team I often wonder what would happen if New Orleans had managed to snag Deron

this is one of the dumbest things written in the history of writing. no offense.

[Showtime]

If you want the hype to stop, then tell CP to stop dominating.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

you say that like pau is a scrub!

He said that like all those guys are scrubs.

[FabCasablancas]

I never said they weren't good..

I am just sying Avery makes them look much better than they are..

[sbw19]

1. Once again you missed the point that the 3pt shot wasn't used back then. Many of KJ's 3 point attempts would then be half court, or full court shots. Which obviously bring down the 3pt % and therefore it's inaccurate to use that into context.

2. I don't see how Paul's numbers are better. KJ scored more, and scored more efficiently. Which was something you brought up earlier. KJ has a higher FG% (Most important). Here is another statistic that measures "efficient scoring"


Points Per Shot:

C.Paul: 1.31
K.Johnson: 1.43


KJ averaged more points, and was more efficient in terms of scoring. FG%, PPG, P/S, show that.



3. :oldlol:

Saying that KJ's performances in the playoffs haven't been as good as CP3's is hilarious. You obviously have never seen a Peak KJ.

Legends like Kevin Johnson stepped up in the playoffs and delivered big performances in the playoffs regularly.



4. I definately think Paul has a good potential to surpass KJ someday. I'm not a h@ter.
1. I didn't miss your point. I just believe KJ wasn't a good 3pt shooter for the vast majority of his career, othewise it'd have showed. True, 3pt shot wasn't a shot teams used back then as frequently as teams use it now, but to say KJ mostly attempted halfcourt 3pters for the first eight years is ludicrous. Why don't you show us a youtube of him hitting a dazzling 20% of his halfcourt 3s? No. Actually players who were good at shooting the 3 shot it well regardless of the #s of attempts (Kerr was a teammate of KJ's on that Suns team, attemped 17 3s, made 8). And players who were good at it used it frequently and used it well. Eddie Johnson johnson shot 71/172 from 3pt land in 88 for example. He's one of four Suns players who shot 33% or better from 3pt land while KJ shot 2/22 (don't you think given how exemplary a pg he was he'd recognize he'd best pass the rock to them cuz they had a better chance of making these endless half court shot instead of taking them himself? Or was he just too unselfish and didn't want them to shoot poor 3s?). Ever heard of Dale Ellis? Mullin? Hornacek? Marjerle? Don't tell me players who shot the 3 well didn't use it back then. Heck even Tom Chambers shot threes and shot them better than KJ.

2. Double steals, much lower TOs, high rpg, apg, almost as efficient scoring (see below) and you don't see he's had better numbers? KJ averages 1pt more on a team averaging 9 more than the Hornets. That's due to pace like I said earlier, but of course you'd turn a blind eye to that cuz KJ was 'better' and no way he can't be. Fact: KJ scored 20.4% of his teams pts in his third season (44.4% of assists). CP3 scored 20.9% of his teams pts (53.2% of assists), meaning he'd average more pts and assists had the Hornets played at the same pace at which that Suns team played.

And if you want to use statistics to prove which player shot better from the floor, at least you could've use them right. You said:

Points Per Shot:

C.Paul: 1.31
K.Johnson: 1.43

(Points per shot) doesn't measure your true shooting percentage (ts%). It strictly measures how many points you score for every FG you attempt regardless of how many FTs you attempt. Meaning PLAYER X can have a higher PPS than PLAYER Y simply by taking less shots and going to the line more even though he is not actually shooting a higher ts%. Heck, It doesn't even measure how well you shoot from the field or the FT line, because theoretically a player who averages 5/10fga (assuming all are 2pters) and 1/2fta has a lower PPS than a player who averages 1/3fga and 12/20fta despite having a high ts%.

True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * (FGA + 0.44 * FTA)
Paul's ts%: 57.6
KJ ts%: 58.9

So KJ's shooting was in fact slightly better and I was wrong about that. But I still believe Paul's had the better stats overall given he has better everything else (yeah keep arguing, their numbers are laid out nicely and they prove me right :)).

3. When did I say that? Quote please. I said Paul's performance in his first two playoff games rivals the best of KJ's.

[chains5000]

I never said they weren't good..

I am just sying Avery makes them look much better than they are..
I'd also blame Kidd.
He's clearly too old to keep up with Paul.

[sbw19]

I've repeatedly said that it's a very close comparison right now, and that Paul has a good potential to surpass KJ.


Do you want me to post all the times I have said that in this thread.
Or will you post where I said it's not even close and KJ is on a different level.

I said acting like. Yes to your credit you did say it's close several times, but you also got all defensive about KJ when I said Paul's play in his first two playoff games rival the best of KJ's playoff performances which's also true.

[loot]

I don't care CP and Howard are becoming great players. We're watching the start of two legends.