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View Full Version : Round 1, Raptors-Magic Game 3, Thu 7:30PM ET



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chains5000
04-25-2008, 03:05 AM
But don't forget, it would be easier trading Ford than Calderon. TJ is under contract, and Calderon may won't accept a sign-and-trade if he doesn't like the team where you want send him.

And, if you want my opinion, we are dealing with people, Calderon is an unselfish guy who had given everything to his team; I really think it would be very, very unfair trading him (despite being an stupid move, in my opinion).
IMO, Calderon > Ford.
That said, no team's gonna give up much for TJ, so Calderon is likely to be the one traded.
Unless the Raptors are too high on him and would rather have him than any player they could land for him.

GoldMedallist
04-25-2008, 05:44 AM
Why are you so sure Calderon is so easy to trade? Imagine he ask for a "trade-block" option in his new contract, like Devean George has. He is a restricted free agent now, he can ask for that to sign for a team.

If he does, it would be more difficult to trade him.

chains5000
04-25-2008, 05:53 AM
Why are you so sure Calderon is so easy to trade? Imagine he ask for a "trade-block" option in his new contract, like Devean George has. He is a restricted free agent now, he can ask for that to sign for a team.

If he does, it would be more difficult to trade him.
I think you must meet some conditions to ask for a no-trade clause, and Jose doesn't meet.
Was it something like having been XXX years in the team?

chains5000
04-25-2008, 05:55 AM
A "no-trade" clause can be negotiated into an individual contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the immediately prior four seasons -- for example, Horace Grant got a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Very few players actually have one of these no-trade provisions. Otherwise, individually negotiated contracts may not contain no-trade clauses. The no-trade clause prevents the team from making a trade involving the player without the player's consent.
Here it is

new noise
04-25-2008, 06:19 AM
IMO, Calderon > Ford.
That said, no team's gonna give up much for TJ, so Calderon is likely to be the one traded.
Unless the Raptors are too high on him and would rather have him than any player they could land for him.

Actually, I'm slowly starting to think TJ will be the one to go. Even with Smitch being Smitch, I can't see much practical reason for Ford to still be starting after two mediocre games unless it's to showcase him a little.

Whether the Raptors win the series or not, if Ford has a nice string of games from here on out, I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few teams get a little high on him. Maybe a TJ Ford/Corey Maggette kind of situation isn't out of the question.

PS it's nice to be in a thread with some actual conversation going on, as opposed to the Chris Bosh is the worst player in history but Dwight Howard is somehow a god because he's only smart enough to dunk every single thing he sees thread(s).

chains5000
04-25-2008, 07:17 AM
Actually, I'm slowly starting to think TJ will be the one to go. Even with Smitch being Smitch, I can't see much practical reason for Ford to still be starting after two mediocre games unless it's to showcase him a little.

Whether the Raptors win the series or not, if Ford has a nice string of games from here on out, I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few teams get a little high on him. Maybe a TJ Ford/Corey Maggette kind of situation isn't out of the question.

PS it's nice to be in a thread with some actual conversation going on, as opposed to the Chris Bosh is the worst player in history but Dwight Howard is somehow a god because he's only smart enough to dunk every single thing he sees thread(s).
The clippers need a PG (Livingston?), but I think the Raptors would have to add something else to make this deal.
Maybe Parker? He's 32 and Delfino could be the starter in his place.

No.45
04-25-2008, 12:58 PM
Hells Nah

Parker is their best perimeter defender, their best player besides Bosh IMO.
Calderon, Parker and Bosh= Toronto's Big Three. Package deal. Colangelo's not stupid. Trade TJ for some 2nd round draft pics...lol

kwajo
04-25-2008, 01:08 PM
Hells Nah

Parker is their best perimeter defender, their best player besides Bosh IMO.
Calderon, Parker and Bosh= Toronto's Big Three. Package deal. Colangelo's not stupid. Trade TJ for some 2nd round draft pics...lol
He's not, but apparently you are.

Qwyjibo
04-25-2008, 02:28 PM
Ford + (return on Calderon) > Calderon + (return on Ford), IMO.

That's why I'd personally rather keep Ford just based on talent. The Raptors can be a mediocre team with Ford at PG and they can be a mediocre team with Calderon at PG. Neither are going to be the difference between that and a great team for the Raptors.

BUT

I do think the Raptors will trade TJ Ford because of the risk his injury issues present combined with recent failed moves. Right now the main goal should be to build a respectable team around Bosh so that he doesn't leave in 2 years. Two of Colangelo's bigger moves have been duds thus far. Colangelo has already wasted a 1st overall pick which set back rebuilding quite a bit. It was a huge blown opportunity. Also, despite these playoffs, a full MLE signing on Kapono has not been productive.

If Ford happens to go down again then the Raptors are in shambles and Bosh leaves in 2 years and it's back to rebuilding from nothing. I think Colangelo might want to play it safe and give Bosh at least ONE guaranteed asset around him.

FatherPyramid
04-25-2008, 02:53 PM
Am I the only one that hopes the Raptors keep both Ford and Calderon? Why is everyone so sure one of them will not be on the Raptors next year? Did Colangelo specifically say he was going to get rid of one of them, I follow the Raptors pretty closely and never heard anything about that?

Qwyjibo
04-25-2008, 02:57 PM
Why is everyone so sure one of them will not be on the Raptors next year?
Because the Raptors have so many holes elsewhere on their roster that it would be silly to keep 2 starter quality players who can only split 48 minutes at one position between them.

Bosh, Ford, Calderon are the only players on the Raptors that are starter caliber players IMO.

danumber88
04-25-2008, 02:59 PM
Calderon has more chanceo fstaying.. colangelo is already looking forward into signing him.

i really hope tj stays because.. its just injuries thta messed him. Hopefully we get a centre next year.

FatherPyramid
04-25-2008, 03:01 PM
Because the Raptors have so many holes elsewhere on their roster that it would be silly to keep 2 starter quality players who can only split 48 minutes at one position between them.

Bosh, Ford, Calderon are the only players on the Raptors that are starter caliber players IMO.

I for one wouldn't be upset if the Raptors had the exact same team next year. They just underachieved hardcore this year. I'd get rid of Mitchell before any of the players.

bballnoob
04-25-2008, 03:03 PM
Wow the officiating was brutal from both sides. That "foul" on Bargnani was ridiculous *in Heinsohn voice*. Dunno why Bosh took so many 3's, Orlando just had a bad shooting night pretty much and Raps actually played half decent.


I for one wouldn't be upset if the Raptors had the exact same team next year. They just underachieved hardcore this year. I'd get rid of Mitchell before any of the players.

If anything, this year has shown the talent level that we really have. A new coach wouldn't make a huge impact because we only have an average/above average roster.

FatherPyramid
04-25-2008, 03:15 PM
If anything, this year has shown the talent level that we really have. A new coach wouldn't make a huge impact because we only have an average/above average roster.

I disagree, the last half of 2007 we had the best or 2nd best record in the league (from jan 1 to end of season). This year we have pretty much the same team, with a few better talents. Just a terrible year, everything that could have went wrong did. I would glady give this team another shot and think that a better coach could manage to get alot more out of the same talent. None of the talent played to their potential except for bosh and calderon. If every player on the team was playing to their potential I have no doubt in my mind Raptors could be a force.

Reef
04-25-2008, 03:15 PM
If anything, this year has shown the talent level that we really have. A new coach wouldn't make a huge impact because we only have an average/above average roster.

Exactly. We need another legit 20ppg scorer, someone who can create a shot, get to the line, and take over a game so there's less of a load on Bosh. Look at Orlando, they have Howard, Hedo, and Rashard. Any one of those guys can score 20 on a given night. They can all create their own shots.

I would trade TJ for Maggette, no doubt. Maggette's one of the best at getting to the FT line and we're like the worst team in the league in that regard. The only problem with him is he's injury prone as well.

Maybe we could get Travis Outlaw instead? I know Portland could definitely use a point guard. Obviously someone else would have to also be thrown in from Portland.

Reef
04-25-2008, 03:21 PM
I disagree, the last half of 2007 we had the best or 2nd best record in the league (from jan 1 to end of season). This year we have pretty much the same team, with a few better talents. Just a terrible year, everything that could have went wrong did. I would glady give this team another shot and think that a better coach could manage to get alot more out of the same talent. None of the talent played to their potential except for bosh and calderon. If every player on the team was playing to their potential I have no doubt in my mind Raptors could be a force.

The problem is that injuries are going to happen during the season. You can't always play up to your potential.

FatherPyramid
04-25-2008, 03:24 PM
The problem is that injuries are going to happen during the season. You can't always play up to your potential.

Well of course injuries will happen, but everything just happened at the worst times. But for the most part the point is it is the coach's job is to get the most out of his players. Sam Mitchell has done practically the opposite, and basically found a way to get the least out of most of the players, creating situations where players could not play to their potential.

bballnoob
04-25-2008, 03:32 PM
I disagree, the last half of 2007 we had the best or 2nd best record in the league (from jan 1 to end of season). This year we have pretty much the same team, with a few better talents. Just a terrible year, everything that could have went wrong did. I would glady give this team another shot and think that a better coach could manage to get alot more out of the same talent. None of the talent played to their potential except for bosh and calderon. If every player on the team was playing to their potential I have no doubt in my mind Raptors could be a force.

Yes but Sam Mitchell was still the coach when they were playing well. Of course they underacheived this year but if you're going to blame all that on the coach, he deserves credit when they were hot.

FatherPyramid
04-25-2008, 03:37 PM
Yes but Sam Mitchell was still the coach when they were playing well. Of course they underacheived this year but if you're going to blame all that on the coach, he deserves credit when they were hot.

I've always stood up for Sam Mitchell. I just think he just handled this year really poorly. I think the extra talent added in the off season made it hard for Sam to decide on rotations, etc., and because of all that he really messed up the team's chemistry and was never able to get it back on track. I shouldn't be so swift to say get rid of Mitchell and all the problems will go away, but I just feel they should give someone else a shot because imo the Raptors already have the talent(oppose to popular ISH belief). Or maybe it's just a personal thing, I really connected with this year's team, I like every player.

DoubleTech
04-25-2008, 04:13 PM
i agree that mitchell has to go but so does one of our point guards...

you can't pay them both starter $ and not be able to start them both...

you gotta deal from a position of strength when filling holes, and our only position of strength on this team is PG.

bada bing
04-25-2008, 07:19 PM
dont expect calderon to be traded this offseason in a sign and trade. I expect him to be here, along with TJ at the beginning of next season. One of them will be traded before next season's trade deadline. BC will match any offer Calderon gets.

DoubleTech
04-25-2008, 07:29 PM
also kwaj... i sent you a pm, check it out.

The Italian
04-25-2008, 08:02 PM
For whoever asked why we think one of them needs to go, it is quite simple. The Raptors aren't a good enough team to have the luxery of having two starting quality point guards on their roster. Outside of Bosh and the point guard spots, the Raptors have quite a bit of holes on their team. AP and Moon are decent players but lets face it, neither of them are going to be starters on Championship caliber teams. We definitely need to upgrade at the wing spots and the only tradeable assests that the Raptors have is the point guards. If the Raptors are going to take the next step, one of them needs to go to tighten up the roster in other places. The two of them are too good to only be playing 24 minutes apeice.

Also, if the Raptors could get Maggette for either of the point guards, I would jump all over it. Maggette would be an amazing fit in Toronto.