Did Shaq really carry Kobe

[Smoke117]

in their 3-peat run? I have said he did a number of times, only to be called a Kobe "hater."

Here are the stats to prove I am not hating, only telling the truth.




1999-2000 Finals


Shaq scored 43/40/33/36/35/41. He shot 96-157. He averaged 38 PPG and shot 61 % from the field.


Kobe scored 14/2/28/8/26. He shot 33-90. He averaged 15.6 PPG and shot 37% from the field.

Advantage- Shaq. He didn't score below 33 in any of the games and Kobe scored below 10 twice. He also didn't have a 30 point game and shot poorly from the field.


2000-2001 Finals

Shaq scored 44/28/30/34/29. He shot 63-110. He averaged 33 PPG and shot 57% from the field.

Kobe scored 15/31/32/19/26. He shot 44-106. He averaged 24.6 PPG and shot 42% from the field.

Advantage- Shaq. In this series Shaq didn't score below 28 and averaged 9 more points a game. He also shot 15% better from the field. Kobe had 3 games where he was under Shaq's low for the series and scored less than 20 in two games as well.

2001-2002 Finals

Shaq scored 36/40/34/34. He shot 50-84. He averaged 36 PPG and shot 60% from the field.

Kobe scored 22/24/36/25. He shot 36-70. He averaged 26.8 PPG and shot 51% from the field.

Advantage- Shaq. In this 4 game series Shaq once again averaged 9 more points a game and shot 9% better from the field. He didn't score below 34 in this series, while Kobe only had one 30 point game.



Overall advantage- Shaq. The numbers don't lie in these 3 championship series. Shaq averaged a total of 35.7 PPG during the Three-peat. He only scored under 30 two times in 15 games, that's phenominal.

Kobe averaged only 22.3 PPG. That's 13.4 PPG less than Shaq averaged. He scored over 30 only 3 times in 14 games. While being held to under 20 in 5 of those games.


Shaq carried Kobe and the Lakers. The stats prove it.


Shaq was also the most important player on the defensive side for the Lakers. Compared to his peers in the 90s he was lazy, but as far as those Laker teams goes he was their anchor and by far made the most impact defensively.

[BlackVVaves]

Shaq carried Kobe for their 2000 championship. You can't refute this.

In 2001, Kobe was brilliant in the playoffs. He dominated the Lakers best competition - the Spurs and Kings - and was the #1 option in the 4th quarter of games. Shaq dominated in the Finals, and deserved the FMVP for it, but Lakers don't get to the Finals without Kobe's play, just as they don't win in the Finals without Shaq's. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge this either didn't watch the playoffs that year, or is busy pushing their not-so-hidden agenda. Shaquille was the #1 option, and the better player. But, he was also amidst his peak, which was the most dominant peak of any player outside of MJ and maybe Wilt. Meanwhile, Kobe was 22 years old. 22 years old. We are not comparing prime or peak Kobe to Shaq. We are talking about Kobe at 22. Putting up 29/7/6 on 47% shooting and a 56 TS%. Shaq and Kobe needed the other to dominate their playing field (the interior and the perimeter) in order to be victorious in 2001.

In 2002, both were less dominant individually in the playoffs than they were the year before, however Shaq still continued to dominate the paint while Kobe was still in control of the reigns on the perimeter. Another year where Shaq simply ousted his competition's front line in the Finals, deserving FMVP honors. However, again, saying Kobe was carried by Shaq to and through this championship run is modestly inaccurate. Again, Shaq was clearly the better player of the two, as he was still in his peak, and a 23 year old Kobe was not. However, again, without Kobe, the Lakers don't make it to the WCF or Finals for Shaq to dominate. In the second round, against the Spurs, Kobe carried the 2002 Lakers through 5 games. Shaq looked horrible compared to the later rounds. He only averaged 21 PPG on 45% shooting. Unacceptable for a big, though to his credit, the Spurs interior defense was superb. Shaq still grabbed 12 boards a game to go with his 3 assists. But, it was Kobe, especially in Games 3 and 5 where he shot 48% and 50% from the field while scoring 31 and 26 points, who supplied the ammo for LA. He went on to average 26, 5, and 5 on 45% from the field that series, helping LA advance to their toughest series of the 3 Peat years, the 2002 Kings.

Kobe was less fantastic this series, experiencing what Shaq had in the preceding series; a team with the defensive personnel to limit his production. Though Kobe averaged 27, 6, and 4, the King's perimeter D suffocated Kobe throughout the series, resulting in bad shot selection at times, and just low efficiency. Kobe shot just 42% for the series, just as unacceptable as it was for a 7 footer in Shaq to shoot 45% against the Spurs. However, where he struggled against Duncan and Pop's defense, he thrived against Sacramento. He finished averaging 30, 14, and 2 on 54% from the field, including a merciless Game 6 where Shaq put up 41 points and 17 rebounds on 56%. He was clearly the best player on the court in this series, and continued his great play into the Finals.

I think, aside from 2000, it's really simplistic to say Shaq carried Kobe. Shaq was undoubtedly the better player, yet people compare the 2 as if they were both in their primes simultaneously, like Bron and Wade for example. Shaq was in his peak, and Kobe hadn't even entered his prime yet. Still, he performed like a future HoFer during the 2001 and 2002 playoffs, particularly 2001. I think, without the other, Shaq nor Kobe would have won titles in 2001 or 2002. Kobe was the Spurs assassin, and completely annihilated the Kings in 2001. Shaq destroyed Sacramento in 2002, and could not be stopped by any one the East could toss at him in the Finals.

When one struggled, the other picked up the slack. That's not sidekick talk, that's teamwork play of All Time greats. Had both experienced their prime at the same time, they would have formed the most devasting duo sports history has ever seen. 2006-2009 Kobe with 2000-2002 Shaq? :eek: :bowdown: :wtf:

[NumberSix]

Will the Kobetards ever just let this go? You're NEVER going to convince rational people of your Kobetard logic on this issue. Just cut your losses and call it a day.

[riseagainst]

in 2001 and 2002, Kobe carried Shaq through the Western conference which consisted of 2 of the top 3 teams in the league (spurs and kings), where Kobe dominated. Then Kobe, the generous Gawd that he was/is, withdraw his powers and let Shaq take over the spotlight against the weak Eastern conference teams in the finals, which explains the FMVPs going to SHAQ.

But the rational non-kobe haters all know the real finals was played in the western conference finals, either against Kings or Spurs. The real FMVP/playoff MVP belongs to Gawdbe, but he was too generous and let his sidekick take them. Kobe would have gotten back to back FMVPs if he didn't let his generosity get the best of him and would have became the GOAT right after 2002. Our god is so godly, yet so humble. He would have been in the GOAT conversation at age 22. :bowdown:

[TheBigVeto]

Duh, yes of course. Anybody who says otherwise is either one of these:
1. Kobetards
2. Plain retards
3. Morons who don't understand basketball

/thread

[Heavincent]

I don't think anyone with a functioning brain believes that Kobe was carried.

[NumberSix]

Duh, yes of course. Anybody who says otherwise is either one of these:
1. Kobetards
2. Plain retards
3. Morons who don't understand basketball

/thread
Shaq didn't "carry" Kobe during the 2001 and 2002 playoff runs, but when over the top Kobe fans try to reverse the claim and say Kobe carried Shaq.....

.... well, that's just pure fcuk-tard.

[riseagainst]

Duh, yes of course Kobe wasn't carried. Anybody who says otherwise is either one of these:
1. TheBigVeto aka huge retard
2. lebrontards


/thread

:applause:

[christian1923]

Lmao why can't they just be 1A 1B.. People forgot how nice kobe was back then?? He was way better than anyone on the other teams too.. Ppl will discredit Kobe's first three titles like he didn't earn them.. It's not like shaq was winning rings before Kobe.

[NumberSix]

Lmao why can't they just be 1A 1B.. People forgot how nice kobe was back then?? He was way better than anyone on the other teams too.. Ppl will discredit Kobe's first three titles like he didn't earn them.. It's not like shaq was winning rings before Kobe.
Can we just stop with this dumb phrase? It's like someone saying "it's not like Hakeem was winning rings before Kenny Smith".

[Heavincent]

Can we just stop with this dumb phrase? It's like someone saying "it's not like Hakeem was winning rings before Kenny Smith".

Yeah, because Kobe = Kenny Smith.

[BlackVVaves]

Shaq didn't "carry" Kobe during the 2001 and 2002 playoff runs, but when over the top Kobe fans try to reverse the claim and say Kobe carried Shaq.....

.... well, that's just pure fcuk-tard.

Agreed, however if the word "carried" is to be thrown around, then Kobe definitely carried the Lakers in certain series, while Shaq carried the Lakers in other series (and when including the Finals, more series).

Would love to hear your opinion on my post on the preceding page, as your logic is that anyone that doesn't say Shaq carried Kobe is a Kobetard - something not only am I not, but publically display disdain for (yes, I'm talking to you Lakers Kobe Fan...:facepalm ).

[NumberSix]

Yeah, because Kobe = Kenny Smith.
That's not the point, at all.

[The Iron Fist]

Can we just stop with this dumb phrase? It's like someone saying "it's not like Hakeem was winning rings before Kenny Smith".
Did kenny win b2b fmvps?

[Vertical-24]

Yes Shaq carried Kobe.
Playoff Stats-
2000- Shaq 30.7 Points, 56% FG/Kobe 21.1 Points, 44% FG
2001- Shaq 30.4 Points, 55% FG/Kobe 29.4 Points, 47% FG
2002- Shaq 28.5 Points, 53% FG/Kobe 26.6 Points, 43% FG
Looks like Shaq carried him.

Its funny because when you post things like that, you actually weakened your argument. Good job, son :applause:

[Boston C's]

The only carrying shaq did was in the 2000 playoffs really...the other 2 titles it was shaq being the first option with kobe being number 2...a really really good number 2 that would be a 1st option on most teams

[NumberSix]

Would love to hear your opinion on my post on the preceding page, as your logic is that anyone that doesn't say Shaq carried Kobe is a Kobetard - something not only am I not, but publically display disdain for (yes, I'm talking to you Lakers Kobe Fan...:facepalm ).
You literally just quoted me specifically saying Shaq didn't carry Kobe.

[NumberSix]

Did kenny win b2b fmvps?
What in the fck does that have to do with anything?:confusedshrug:

[longtime lurker]

I love when people say Shaq carried Kobe, but then don't bother to post the series before the finals :roll: Like the Lakers just magically appeared in the finals games.

[MaxFly]

in their 3-peat run? I have said he did a number of times, only to be called a Kobe "hater."

Here are the stats to prove I am not hating, only telling the truth.


You noted their "3-peat run" and then you focused on the finals... leaving out the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. I wasn't aware that a championship run was only comprised of the finals series...

[Vertical-24]

The only carrying shaq did was in the 2000 playoffs really...the other 2 titles it was shaq being the first option with kobe being number 2...a really really good number 2 that would be a 1st option on most teams

:cheers:

I agree. Especially with the later statement. Shaq was a dominant muthaphucka man, and at his peak I think anyone (besides maybe Michael, at which can even be debatable) would be automatically cast as a secondary option. And even in the 2000 Playoffs, Kobe wasn't carried, especially if you wanna take into account the amount of clutch-play and performance he delivered in the WCF and Game 4 of the Finals. Kobe was clearly the 2nd option but a viable second option indeed. One of the greatest second options of all-time as a matter of fact (during the 3-peat). He earned his titles alongside Shaq, so lets cut the schtick.

[Flash31]

Shaq CARRIED Kobe period..

put any other all star wingman guard
like carter,mcgrady that was averaging 20+
and was a star on their own right boom
3 peat,4peat cause they wouldn't
shoot their teams out of games and try to
become the "man"
when it was clear another championship
would happen if they simply put up their numbers
and played great and supported the man SHAQ.


Shaq CARRIED Kobe and well Kobe should
thank him and his collection of all star big men
who without them Kobe ain't winning jack and
isn't making it past the second or even 1st
round.

Do people even Remember the 2005-2007
Lakers and how far they went in the
season and playoffs.

Do people not remember the stellar play of
gasol,odom,artest in the 2009-2010 playoffs.
It wasn't Kobe that won those titles,
it was Kobe with the Help of His Twin Towers,Odom,and
artest.


And now Kobe is going to be carried by another
all star big man in Howard and a great from court
and another twin tower all star system.

KOBE will not win another Finals MVP.
He might make the WCF this time instead of
the second round twice.4-0,5-1,what's next,

thunder,improved clippers,spurs with Leonard improving,
a whole new playoff teams in suns,nuggets,and
others .

[Remix]

The funny part is that people think if you weren't the lead dog/finals mvp, you were carried. Which is funny, because no player in the history of the NBA could be on the the 3peat Lakers and take the lead dog role from Shaq, except for maybe prime MJ.

[Remix]

:cheers:

I agree. Especially with the later statement. Shaq was a dominant muthaphucka man, and at his peak I think anyone (besides maybe Michael, at which can even be debatable) would be automatically cast as a secondary option. And even in the 2000 Playoffs, Kobe wasn't carried, especially if you wanna take into account the amount of clutch-play and performance he delivered in the WCF and Game 4 of the Finals. Kobe was clearly the 2nd option but a viable second option indeed. One of the greatest second options of all-time as a matter of fact (during the 3-peat). He earned his titles alongside Shaq, so lets cut the schtick.
:cheers:

[BlackVVaves]

The only carrying shaq did was in the 2000 playoffs really...the other 2 titles it was shaq being the first option with kobe being number 2...a really really good number 2 that would be a 1st option on most teams

This is the simple, and ultimate answer. It's truly the only answer. Which should be supplemented with, the only perimeter player in the history of the NBA that could have played with Shaq and maybe serve as the #1 option of him is Michael Jordan, the GOAT.

And that's not entirely a given. Shaq posed a mismatch for 80% of the league's teams during the 2000-2002 Lakers dynasty run. Any competent coach would have strategized to exploit this mismatch, and allow Shaq to be the focal point on the offense. To put it simply, it would just be very unintelligent basketball to not structure your offense around peak Shaq. It doesn't matter if it was Lebron, Wade, Drexler, Durant, Iverson, T-Mac, any perimeter you can think of outside of MJ. They would all be second fiddle to peak Shaq, so let's stop discussing Kobe's role as the #2 option as if it was due to his own failures. No. It was due to peak Shaq's greatness.

[Heavincent]

Was Bird carried by Cedric Maxwell in 1981? :confusedshrug:

[Vertical-24]

Shaq CARRIED Kobe period..

put any other all star wingman guard
like carter,mcgrady that was averaging 20+
and was a star on their own right boom
3 peat,4peat cause they wouldn't
shoot their teams out of games and try to
become the "man"
when it was clear another championship
would happen if they simply put up their numbers
and played great and supported the man SHAQ.


Shaq CARRIED Kobe and well Kobe should
thank him and his collection of all star big men
who without them Kobe ain't winning jack and
isn't making it past the second or even 1st
round.

Do people even Remember the 2005-2007
Lakers and how far they went in the
season and playoffs.

Do people not remember the stellar play of
gasol,odom,artest in the 2009-2010 playoffs.
It wasn't Kobe that won those titles,
it was Kobe with the Help of His Twin Towers,Odom,and
artest.


And now Kobe is going to be carried by another
all star big man in Howard and a great from court
and another twin tower all star system.

KOBE will not win another Finals MVP.
He might make the WCF this time instead of
the second round twice.4-0,5-1,what's next,

thunder,improved clippers,spurs with Leonard improving,
a whole new playoff teams in suns,nuggets,and
others .

http://i.imgur.com/lP42R.jpg

[BlackVVaves]

You literally just quoted me specifically saying Shaq didn't carry Kobe.

Yes, but your post on the preceding page stated that anyone that says Shaq didn't carry Kobe is a Kobetard, so why are you being facetious as if you never stated that?

[KDTrey5]

u werent old enough to even watch probably. but yes

[Boston C's]

This is the simple, and ultimate answer. It's truly the only answer. Which should be supplemented with, the only perimeter player in the history of the NBA that could have played with Shaq and maybe serve as the #1 option of him is Michael Jordan, the GOAT.

And that's not entirely a given. Shaq posed a mismatch for 80% of the league's teams during the 2000-2002 Lakers dynasty run. Any competent coach would have strategized to exploit this mismatch, and allow Shaq to be the focal point on the offense. To put it simply, it would just be very unintelligent basketball to not structure your offense around peak Shaq. It doesn't matter if it was Lebron, Wade, Drexler, Durant, Iverson, T-Mac, any perimeter you can think of outside of MJ. They would all be second fiddle to peak Shaq, so let's stop discussing Kobe's role as the #2 option as if it was due to his own failures. No. It was due to peak Shaq's greatness.


Well said... some ppl with their agendas are annoying whether its the kobe haters who claim kobe was "carried" because he was a second option putting up what most would think first option numbers or the kobe stans who claim the opposite and say shit like kobe is superior to shaq because of some ridiculous nitpicking

[Optimus Prime]

Why was this thread bumped from FOUR YEARS AGO? :facepalm

:kobe:

[Boston C's]

:cheers:

I agree. Especially with the later statement. Shaq was a dominant muthaphucka man, and at his peak I think anyone (besides maybe Michael, at which can even be debatable) would be automatically cast as a secondary option. And even in the 2000 Playoffs, Kobe wasn't carried, especially if you wanna take into account the amount of clutch-play and performance he delivered in the WCF and Game 4 of the Finals. Kobe was clearly the 2nd option but a viable second option indeed. One of the greatest second options of all-time as a matter of fact (during the 3-peat). He earned his titles alongside Shaq, so lets cut the schtick.

another well said statement :cheers:

[The Iron Fist]

What in the fck does that have to do with anything?:confusedshrug:
B2b fmvps dont get carried

[christian1923]

Can we just stop with this dumb phrase? It's like someone saying "it's not like Hakeem was winning rings before Kenny Smith".
How is it dumb? . Point is shaq needed kobe just as much as kobe needed shaq. The seasons where he didn't have dominate shooting guards he didn't win championships. And dont compare kobe to Kenny smith. :no:

[BlackVVaves]

Well said... some ppl with their agendas are annoying whether its the kobe haters who claim kobe was "carried" because he was a second option putting up what most would think first option numbers or the kobe stans who claim the opposite and say shit like kobe is superior to shaq because of some ridiculous nitpicking

Kobe stans think Kobe's Top 5 All Time, Kobe haters think he's not even Top 10. Bron fanboys think his the undisputed GOAT if he achieves two more rings, Bron haters think his ring this year shouldn't even count.

Bunch of extremists on this board, disgusting really. I ignore or address it the majority of the time, but evert now and then it just gets ridiculous, and I put ISH on my ignore list for a couple months, sometimes even years.

People need to stop acting like 12 year old revisionists.

[Boston C's]

Kobe stans think Kobe's Top 5 All Time, Kobe haters think he's not even Top 10. Bron fanboys think his the undisputed GOAT if he achieves two more rings, Bron haters think his ring this year shouldn't even count.

Bunch of extremists on this board, disgusting really. I ignore or address it the majority of the time, but evert now and then it just gets ridiculous, and I put ISH on my ignore list for a couple months, sometimes even years.

People need to stop acting like 12 year old revisionists.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

could not agree more my friend... i really hope that everyone could read this statement

[NumberSix]

Yes, but your post on the preceding page stated that anyone that says Shaq didn't carry Kobe is a Kobetard, so why are you being facetious as if you never stated that?
Because I didn't.

If you say I did, quote it, because I definitely don't remember it.

[BlackVVaves]

Will the Kobetards ever just let this go? You're NEVER going to convince rational people of your Kobetard logic on this issue. Just cut your losses and call it a day.

Are you not implying that rational people think Shaq carried Kobe, and that Kobetards don't let it go, think Kobe was not carried, and maintain "Kobetard" logic on the issue?

[NumberSix]

Are you not implying that rational people think Shaq carried Kobe, and that Kobetards don't let it go, think Kobe was not carried, and maintain "Kobetard" logic on the issue?
No. I'm responding to the previous posts that were saying Kobe carried Shaq in "the real finals". That was the Kobetard logic I was referring to.

I guess the context of my post wasn't exactly clear, but you definitely took a leap to land where you landed.

[riseagainst]

No. I'm responding to the previous posts that were saying Kobe carried Shaq in "the real finals". That was the Kobetard logic I was referring to.

I guess the context of my post wasn't exactly clear, but you definitely took a leap to land where you landed.

but Kobe did "carry" Shaq in the west the same way Shaq "carried" Kobe in the finals.

[NumberSix]

but Kobe did "carry" Shaq in the west the same way Shaq "carried" Kobe in the finals.
I never said Shaq carried Kobe in the finals. I specifically said that he DIDN'T carry him.

That being said. Kobe certain as fcuk didn't carry Shaq.

[BlackVVaves]

No. I'm responding to the previous posts that were saying Kobe carried Shaq in "the real finals". That was the Kobetard logic I was referring to.

I guess the context of my post wasn't exactly clear, but you definitely took a leap to land where you landed.

Ah, in that case my apologies. I agree with you regarding Shaq not carrying Kobe overall in 2001 and 2002, but also in that Kobe did not carry Shaq overall in 2001 or 2002.

Shaq certainly carried that Lakers team in 2000 though. And was the best player in each Finals from 2000-2002. And not because Kobe "allowed Shaq" to dominate, like I've read these idiots say. It was because, Shaq was the best player on the floor, with the biggest mismatches in his favor.

[KingMichael23]

Nobody carried nobody. Kobe dominated in the Playoffs and Shaq dominated in the Finals.

[Boston C's]

kobe could never carry shaq...hes way too heavy

[longtime lurker]

Nobody carried nobody. Kobe dominated in the Playoffs and Shaq dominated in the Finals.

This. Such a simple concept but impossible for most people on this board to grasp.