easy solution to Cavs PG problem

[laview]

Everyone keeps saying that the Cavs lacks a true PG to go with LeBron for the longest time, but I think it is obvious that since LeBron is a great passer and dominate the ball so much that he should just be the PG like Magic was. Decent wing players are easier to find then true PG anyway.

[artificial]

Cavs already tried that, and didn't worked. True, it was in his rookie season, but I still think it wouldn't work now.

[iggy>]

they better hope the sixers suck next year so they can trade for andre miller.

[Fallguy20]

Im not convinced he could put up the points that he needs to keep the cavs afloat and still get the rock around and rack up 10+ assists... he's no Iverson and his supporting cast still dont generate points like they could/should.

[starface]

actually i think this is something they should consider revisiting.

but they better do it soon, cuz he's only gonna play there for 2 more years

[DuMa]

he does it in the 4th and crunch time. they just need a scoring PG

[RajonKGcelts]

Trade up for Bayless

[ecthelion]

get J-Will to cleveland.. watch as they get a ring

[kidachi]

IDK why they always crave for a PG.

as far as i can see.. any PG plays well with LeBron.. Jeff McInnis, Delonte, Boobie.. Hughes who tried playing the PG.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't see PG as a problem. I thought Delonte did an admirable job considering he was added in midseason and the Cavs had a revolving injury problem.

The problem is that we have no post threat, not the lack of a point guard. :confusedshrug:

[abuC]

I don't see PG as a problem. I thought Delonte did an admirable job considering he was added in midseason and the Cavs had a revolving injury problem.

The problem is that we have no post threat, not the lack of a point guard. :confusedshrug:


I think the lack of a consistent scorer from the SG spot is their biggest problem, they can get away without having a post threat if they would just let LeBron operate in the post every once in awhile.

They play elite defense, but have lottery offense, if they had a 17-20ppg scorer from the 2 they would be hard to beat.

[RedBlackAttack]

I think the lack of a consistent scorer from the SG spot is their biggest problem, they can get away without having a post threat if they would just let LeBron operate in the post every once in awhile.

They play elite defense, but have lottery offense, if they had a 17-20ppg scorer from the 2 they would be hard to beat.
Disagree.

I've said it time and again. The biggest issue with the Cavs' offense is floor spacing and a lack thereof. The Cavs have the shooting and scoring at the 2 (Wally, Gibson, Sasha, Devin). Sure, they aren't great players, but they can knock down open jumpers and can be good role players.

The problem is that the Cavs do not have one post player. Z is a spot-up shooter. Joe Smith is a spot-up shooter. Varejao and Wallace are both completely offensively inept. This makes the Cavs very easy to defend and allows defenses to throw an incredible amount of attention at LeBron yet still get out and contest jump shots. Our floor spacing is atrocious.

In order to have proper spacing, get open shots for your jumpshooters, and create driving lanes for your slashers, you have to have a guy in the post that defenses have to defend and be wary of at all times.

[RajonKGcelts]

Disagree.

I've said it time and again. The biggest issue with the Cavs' offense is floor spacing and a lack thereof. The Cavs have the shooting and scoring at the 2 (Wally, Gibson, Sasha, Devin). Sure, they aren't great players, but they can knock down open jumpers and can be good role players.

The problem is that the Cavs do not have one post player. Z is a spot-up shooter. Joe Smith is a spot-up shooter. Varejao and Wallace are both completely offensively inept. This makes the Cavs very easy to defend and allows defenses to throw an incredible amount of attention at LeBron yet still get out and contest jump shots. Our floor spacing is atrocious.

In order to have proper spacing, get open shots for your jumpshooters, and create driving lanes for your slashers, you have to have a guy in the post that defenses have to defend and be wary of at all times.

How do you think they will or should do that though, any good post players available draft or FA wise?

[sonicman]

How do you think they will or should do that though, any good post players available draft or FA wise?

They need to get Elton Brand somehow..

[kidachi]

get J-Will to cleveland.. watch as they get a ring

wedding ring?

[RajonKGcelts]

They need to get Elton Brand somehow..

He can opt out this season right?

[abuC]

Disagree.

I've said it time and again. The biggest issue with the Cavs' offense is floor spacing and a lack thereof. The Cavs have the shooting and scoring at the 2 (Wally, Gibson, Sasha, Devin). Sure, they aren't great players, but they can knock down open jumpers and can be good role players.

They dont have the shooting or scoring at the 2 on a consistent basis, and it's not just scoring either, they need a secondary creator on the floor. Gibson, Wally, Sasha and Devin cannot create offense for themselves or others consistently. Just look at how dangerous that team was when Larry Hughes actually had a game where he scored over 20 pts efficiently to go along with Bron's usual production.


The problem is that the Cavs do not have one post player. Z is a spot-up shooter. Joe Smith is a spot-up shooter. Varejao and Wallace are both completely offensively inept.

In order to have proper spacing, get open shots for your jumpshooters, and create driving lanes for your slashers, you have to have a guy in the post that defenses have to defend and be wary of at all times.


There are very few bigs out there, the only one that they realistically could get is Jermaine O'neal and his tires are flat. They need spacing, but they also need someone to create or carry the offensive load when LeBron is on the bench or going through a rough stretch, they have a bunch of shooters and only 1 creator on the team. Think of it like this, would they have lost the series to the Celtics if they had Jason Richardson in place of Wally?

[RedBlackAttack]

How do you think they will or should do that though, any good post players available draft or FA wise?
The best answer to the problem in Cleveland is Elton Brand. It is interesting, because I do think that the Clippers would be willing to deal Brand, but they would want more than the Cavs have to offer.

In order to pull off such a deal, the Clippers would want in return an excellent young player (like the Celtics giving Minnesota Al Jefferson). The Cavaliers do not have such a player.

What the Cavs do have is $30 million in expirers and a good young prospect in Boobie Gibson. In order to get a miracle deal done for Brand, the Cavs would have to incorporate a third team that is desperate for cap space and one that owns the kind of young prospect that the Clippers would desire.

If Ferry could find that team, I believe with a good amount of expirers and draft picks, the Cavs could get Brand, but it is unlikely.


Lower tier established post players that I do think the Cavs could make a run at include Jermaine O'Neal, 'Melo, and Zach Randolph.

Any of the four guys I've listed could, possibly, put the Cavs over the top. It isn't like we are that far away as it stands right now.

[RedBlackAttack]

They dont have the shooting or scoring at the 2 on a consistent basis, and it's not just scoring either, they need a secondary creator on the floor. Gibson, Wally, Sasha and Devin cannot create offense for themselves or others consistently. Just look at how dangerous that team was when Larry Hughes actually had a game where he scored over 20 pts efficiently to go along with Bron's usual production.




There are very few bigs out there, the only one that they realistically could get is Jermaine O'neal and his tires are flat. They need spacing, but they also need someone to create or carry the offensive load when LeBron is on the bench or going through a rough stretch, they have a bunch of shooters and only 1 creator on the team. Think of it like this, would they have lost the series to the Celtics if they had Jason Richardson in place of Wally?

bleedinpurple2 had a very interesting trade scenario that would address both the problem that you bring up and the problem that I bring up. I didn't like it at first, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

Here is what he came up with...

Cavs
give: Gibson, Snow, Szczerbiak, Joe Smith, 1st rounder
get: Vince Carter, Zach Randolph
why?: win now, post scoring, relieve pressure off Lebron

Nets
give: Vince Carter
get: Boobie, Snow, Joe Smith, 1st rounder
why?: dump VC and his ugly contract, get expirers, a pick and Booby

Knicks
give: Zach Randolph
get: Wally Z
why?: dump Zach, get an expirer.

Cavs lineup:
Delonte West
Vince Carter
Lebron James
Zach Randolph
Big Z




This trade really seems to make sense for all parties involved and would make the Cavs SIGNIFICANTLY better.

[nashisbest]

I think the lack of a consistent scorer from the SG spot is their biggest problem, they can get away without having a post threat if they would just let LeBron operate in the post every once in awhile.

They play elite defense, but have lottery offense, if they had a 17-20ppg scorer from the 2 they would be hard to beat.

totally agree. lebron just need a no.2 consistent scorer on the team. let's not be greedy. just 1 will do.

[Mamba]

theres no problem with the pg atm, delonte west is very good, he just needs 2 get his head right he is very capable just not consistent.

what they need 2 do is to put benedict wallets on the bench make a couple of trades and try and land there ass a decent post player in the proccess.

also get rid of Z for someone a little more athletic, someone that just doesn't have butter fingers like anderson varajeo, because the nights that varajeo wasn't dropping the ball he was dropping like 20 points all off assists from lebron, and then it was like 4 FT's.

with Z you basically have to spread the floor alot more for him to be effective, because he can't get out of the double team and he's very slow.

give lebron, andrew bogut as his center and Reggie Evans as his pf, along with delonte running the point and wally at SG, the cavs would basically win 55-56 games.

[2LeTTeRS]

bleedinpurple2 had a very interesting trade scenario that would address both the problem that you bring up and the problem that I bring up. I didn't like it at first, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

Here is what he came up with...

Cavs
give: Gibson, Snow, Szczerbiak, Joe Smith, 1st rounder
get: Vince Carter, Zach Randolph
why?: win now, post scoring, relieve pressure off Lebron

Nets
give: Vince Carter
get: Boobie, Snow, Joe Smith, 1st rounder
why?: dump VC and his ugly contract, get expirers, a pick and Booby

Knicks
give: Zach Randolph
get: Wally Z
why?: dump Zach, get an expirer.

Cavs lineup:
Delonte West
Vince Carter
Lebron James
Zach Randolph
Big Z




This trade really seems to make sense for all parties involved and would make the Cavs SIGNIFICANTLY better.

Th more I think about it the Cavs would probably have to throw in a few more pieces to make it work. I could see a deal looking like this though.

Cleveland trades: Varajeo, Szcerbiak, Gibson, Jones, Snow, Joe Smith, 1st rounder
Cleveland gets: Carter, Randolph, Hassell, Marcus Williams

Z/Wallace
Z Bo/Balkman
James/Hassel
Carter/Pavlovic
West/Williams

Everybody knows why Cleveland does this deal, to get that much needed 2nd option and big inside thats able to finish. Losing Varajeo hurts a little, but with them having Ben Wallace he's expendable and with the way management treated him the last time he was a free agent theres no guarantee he re-signs after next season. Smith, Szerbs and Gibson while valuable last year are all expenable, and gaining Williams and Hassel along with Carter and Z Bo makes up for their loss and then some. The team would be much worse defensively but seeing Brown's reputation as a defensive coach, and the fact that the players would be playing for a title I see them putting a little more effort on that side of the ball.

NJ trades: Vince, Hassel, M Williams
NJ gets: Szcerbiak, Smith, Cle 1st Round

Williams/Boone
Smith/Kristic
Szerbiak/Nachbar
RJ
Harris

New Jersey still wants to be competitive, they're not ready to let the world know their rebuilding, and because of that I doubt they do this deal without giving themselves at least the chance to still contend for the playoffs. Smith and Szerbiak could both be valable contributors in NJ. The only piece they might want to hang on to is Williams, but with them having Harris he's expendable. And on that they're getting another 1st round pick and getting out of under Hassel and VC's bad contracts and I can't see them saying no.

NY trades: Randolph, Balkman
NY gets: Varajao, Gibson, Jones, Snow

Curry
Lee/Varajeo
Richardson/Chandler
Crawford
?/Marbury

NY is a mess and I'm assuming this deal would at least peak their interest. Any time you have Curry as one of you're bigs you need the guy beside him to be willing to play D and do the dirty work and even though they have one guy like that in Lee, Varajeo would be another ideal compliment. Gibson helps them space the floor and give them another threat behind the arc, and Jones is just included as filler and as an expiring deal. With this move and them drafing or trading for a PG they could be closer to fitting the mold of a D'Antoni team.

[dirkdiggler41]

I'm so tired of the true pointguard "problem". LeBron is the main ball handler. He is not a spot-up shooter so having a true PG would not help much there. He draws so much attention from defense, why would you want a PG take the ball away from him? He needs shooters like he got now to be able to spot-up when he gets the double team or a lot of defense on him. Just look at all the great wing players who has been able to win the title or atleast got close to it. They never needed a true pg.

What LeBron needs is a overall better team. Maybe not a superstar, but overall a better skilled team

[ChuckOakley]

NY can give them a PG and PF at the same time!

Marbury
Randolph

for

Wallace
Wally
Snow
#1

[ecthelion]

wedding ring?
think you're funny eh...
J will get angry

[picc84]

Mo Williams would be perfect for the cavs.

[abuC]

bleedinpurple2 had a very interesting trade scenario that would address both the problem that you bring up and the problem that I bring up. I didn't like it at first, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

Here is what he came up with...

Cavs
give: Gibson, Snow, Szczerbiak, Joe Smith, 1st rounder
get: Vince Carter, Zach Randolph
why?: win now, post scoring, relieve pressure off Lebron

Nets
give: Vince Carter
get: Boobie, Snow, Joe Smith, 1st rounder
why?: dump VC and his ugly contract, get expirers, a pick and Booby

Knicks
give: Zach Randolph
get: Wally Z
why?: dump Zach, get an expirer.

Cavs lineup:
Delonte West
Vince Carter
Lebron James
Zach Randolph
Big Z




This trade really seems to make sense for all parties involved and would make the Cavs SIGNIFICANTLY better.


That makes them better offensively, but defensively they would be horrible in my opinion. Zach Randolph is essentially what Drew Gooden would be if he had more shots and even less ability on defense. You get scoring but you get much much worse on the defensive side. I dont see Carter as the answer either, LeBron needs someone close to his own age that he can grow with, Carter is already showing signs of slowing down big time.

The pieces are there already, they just lack a number 2, if the Cavs had a consistent 17-20ppg scorer this year they would have made it past the Celts. I'd look for any 2 guard that can put the ball on the floor at times and hit the 3, they should consider calling up the Nuggets about JR Smith, with more discipline there's no reason he cant be a big scorer in the league. He's essentially the same player as Jason Richardson but younger.

[veilside23]

delonte did just fine.. IMO he is just suitable for the king... delonte can shoot well can penetrate.. RBA is right cleveland needs a post up guy.. if only they didnt trade gooden for boozer cleveland could have atleast won a game versus san antonio last year...

[InspiredLebowski]

bleedinpurple2 had a very interesting trade scenario that would address both the problem that you bring up and the problem that I bring up. I didn't like it at first, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

Here is what he came up with...

Cavs
give: Gibson, Snow, Szczerbiak, Joe Smith, 1st rounder
get: Vince Carter, Zach Randolph
why?: win now, post scoring, relieve pressure off Lebron

Nets
give: Vince Carter
get: Boobie, Snow, Joe Smith, 1st rounder
why?: dump VC and his ugly contract, get expirers, a pick and Booby

Knicks
give: Zach Randolph
get: Wally Z
why?: dump Zach, get an expirer.

Cavs lineup:
Delonte West
Vince Carter
Lebron James
Zach Randolph
Big Z




This trade really seems to make sense for all parties involved and would make the Cavs SIGNIFICANTLY better.
How's it make sense for Jersey? They don't need Gibson, they have Harris and Williams. They don't need expirers, they don't really have any cap problems. I agree Carter's contract is ugly, but he's still producing at a high level. Have fun trying to re-sign LeBron with Carter's and Randolph's contracts on the books as well. :confusedshrug:

[Phenith]

Give the Sonics a bag of Doritos for Ridnour, I bet he would fit in nicely in Cleavland.

[2LeTTeRS]

How's it make sense for Jersey? They don't need Gibson, they have Harris and Williams. They don't need expirers, they don't really have any cap problems. I agree Carter's contract is ugly, but he's still producing at a high level. Have fun trying to re-sign LeBron with Carter's and Randolph's contracts on the books as well. :confusedshrug:

Cleveland's owner has no problem's paying to go over the cap because as long as Bron stays around this team is a cash cow. Cap rules allow you to go over the cap to keep you're own and I see no reasson for him to start getting cheap now after he's put millions into this team's practice facility and and just generally improving them. I don't see money as an issue.


Give the Sonics a bag of Doritos for Ridnour, I bet he would fit in nicely in Cleavland.

I agree. The Knicks should be going after Ridnour too.

[Cavs2007Champs]

Don't mind 2 Letters he believes if he keeps posting this trade, that Danny Ferry reads these message boards and he'll do it, he keeps posting this same trade.

If LeBron had better players around him, then I'd be all for the move to the PG postion, if everyone that was on the Cavaliers team, both teams the one before the trade and the one after the trade, of both groups of guys were more consistent then he could be the PG the majority of the time.

Wally showed he couldn't hit the J consistently, Gibson rarely scores 15 points a game, Pavlovic is bad, Devin Brown is a bad shooter, West has shown reliable. Z can hit the long jumper, and Smith also. Before the trade, Gooden was horribly inconsistent, and Hughes rarely hit a jumper.

You give LeBron a younger Joe Smith or Z, and a player like Redd or Miller, or Stojakovic at that, then I could see him being a Point Forward more than we see, with better ball movement.

The Cavs just don't have many high BBall IQ ballers at the wing position, I konw Snow and Devin Brown have good BBall IQs, but they are bad offensively, and not athletic, and hell they are not in the rotation even.

[Mathius]

Disagree.

I've said it time and again. The biggest issue with the Cavs' offense is floor spacing and a lack thereof. The Cavs have the shooting and scoring at the 2 (Wally, Gibson, Sasha, Devin). Sure, they aren't great players, but they can knock down open jumpers and can be good role players.

The problem is that the Cavs do not have one post player. Z is a spot-up shooter. Joe Smith is a spot-up shooter. Varejao and Wallace are both completely offensively inept. This makes the Cavs very easy to defend and allows defenses to throw an incredible amount of attention at LeBron yet still get out and contest jump shots. Our floor spacing is atrocious.

In order to have proper spacing, get open shots for your jumpshooters, and create driving lanes for your slashers, you have to have a guy in the post that defenses have to defend and be wary of at all times.

I agree that point guard is not our issue. Delonte is solid enough to be the PG we need. Coaching is more of an issue in running the offense than an actual problem with our PG. I would like to see a backup PG added, but we don't need anyone high-dollar to do that.

But I want to address your response above.

Your problem is with the Cavs floor spacing, saying that we don't have an inside threat. But, IMO, the fact that you're pointing out the floor spacing problem is a direct indication of no inside threat, implies to me that you see Lebron as a perimeter player.

I disagree. Lebron is at his best in two situations. Driving and dishing, and receiving the ball on cuts to the basket. I would add a third scenario, pointing out his post up advantages, but he clearly is uncomfortable going into the post, or he would have done so by now. My second point, receving the ball on cuts, has happened very little as a regular part of our offense since Mike Brown has come to town.

I actually think Z as a perimeter center actually HELPS Lebron's game, by keeping the middle of the key open for him.

The problem is, nobody respects the Cavs other players, so when Lebron does drive to the hoop, the defense is free to collapse on him because they have no respect for our perimeter game.

I believe a second scorer is absolutely crucial to this, someone with a jump shot. I think two key ingredients actually are necessary. #1, first and foremost, we need a second scorer. Someone who thinks of nothing BUT scoring. Someone aggressive that's going to look to score, instead of waiting around watching for Lebron. The 2nd ingredient is adding some second tier shooters.

Wally just isn't getting it done. Call it a slump, call it playing out of position, I just don't know, but he never got going. Gibson seems to me to be extremely streaky, and of course injury prone this year. Sasha's play this year just disgusts me. It just plain disgusts me. If we could have picked up Jason Kapono for the MLE last year, I think we'd have had more success. A few more shooters like that would help as well I think.

I just don't think adding another interior guy is the answer. I think Joe Smith and Z being able to hit that outside shot just helps, because it forces the other team to bring THEIR big man outside and on the perimeter, opening things up for James.

In the ideal situation, I see James handling the ball less, and being more on a receiving end, in the post, and on cuts to the hoop. I don't buy any of that "James can't move without the ball crap". I saw what he did this summer with Jason Kidd, and I've watched the lack of offensive cohesion from our coaching staff the last 3 years. I think James reputation as having poor movement without the ball is a product of our system, not the other way around.

Mathius

[2LeTTeRS]

I just don't think adding another interior guy is the answer. I think Joe Smith and Z being able to hit that outside shot just helps, because it forces the other team to bring THEIR big man outside and on the perimeter, opening things up for James.

In the ideal situation, I see James handling the ball less, and being more on a receiving end, in the post, and on cuts to the hoop. I don't buy any of that "James can't move without the ball crap". I saw what he did this summer with Jason Kidd, and I've watched the lack of offensive cohesion from our coaching staff the last 3 years. I think James reputation as having poor movement without the ball is a product of our system, not the other way around.

Mathius

I don't think Bron wants to play that role yet though. He's not ready to put his back to the basket and post up. Yes with his size and quickness it would make him more dangerous but until he decides to play that way it doesn't much matter.

[Mathius]

I don't think Bron wants to play that role yet though. He's not ready to put his back to the basket and post up. Yes with his size and quickness it would make him more dangerous but until he decides to play that way it doesn't much matter.

I don't disagree with you. In fact, if you look earlier into my post, I pointed out that Lebron just doesn't plain seem interested or comfortable in playing in the post. What I was saying is, I think this is the best usage for James' skill set. Not letting him handle the ball so much. He pounds the ball and runs the clock down and his teammates stand around and watch.

I know I harp on Mike Brown in every Cavs post, and it's probably getting old, but part of the problem is, Mike Brown is horrible, and James doesn't respect him.

Phil Jackson is the zen master, because everywhere he goes, he is able to install the triangle offense, and his players buy into his system, and he excels. Yes, they had personnel help, in Chicago, LA with Shaq, and LA with Gasol, but his players respect him.

I believe if James had a coach he respected, then that coach would be able to help him expand his game and concentrate on his strengths instead of forcing things so much.

Part of that is the players around him, obviously, but I think part of it is coaching.

Mathius

[InspiredLebowski]

I think LeBron is uncoachable. I'm not saying he's a coach killer or that he doesn't understand what it takes to win. But the kid probably hasn't had a coach tell him to do something he didn't want since....well, ever. He seems to just have then inherent disrepect for coaches.

[vert48]

I think LeBron is uncoachable. I'm not saying he's a coach killer or that he doesn't understand what it takes to win. But the kid probably hasn't had a coach tell him to do something he didn't want since....well, ever. He seems to just have then inherent disrepect for coaches.His coach is Mike Brown! His idea for an offense is having Lebron hold the ball for 15 seconds and then either shoot or drive. Give Lebron a decent coach that will implement an offense, and then bring in players that will match the needs of the offense.

[InspiredLebowski]

His coach is Mike Brown! His idea for an offense is having Lebron hold the ball for 15 seconds and then either shoot or drive. Give Lebron a decent coach that will implement an offense, and then bring in players that will match the needs of the offense.

I'm not defending Mike Brown, I'm a Pacers fan, I understand what type of coach he is. It's Ferry's fault for bringing him in and expecting a coach whose only job in Indy was defense. But regardless of how inept the coach is in certain phases of the game you should show respect. I remember a game, I think this season, where the Cavs came out of a timeout huddle and LeBron distinctly shouldered into Brown obviously on purpose. Just complete contempt. He's got this insane ego that I can't stand.

[RedBlackAttack]

I think LeBron is uncoachable. I'm not saying he's a coach killer or that he doesn't understand what it takes to win. But the kid probably hasn't had a coach tell him to do something he didn't want since....well, ever. He seems to just have then inherent disrepect for coaches.
I disagree just because of his VAST improvement on defense. I don't think it is any coincidence that Mike Brown (a defensive mastermind) was brought in and, almost immediately, LeBron's defense began improving each year he has been here. Right now, he is on the cusp of being an All-Defensive caliber player and I think a lot of that can be attributed to Mike Brown's coaching.


I agree that point guard is not our issue. Delonte is solid enough to be the PG we need. Coaching is more of an issue in running the offense than an actual problem with our PG. I would like to see a backup PG added, but we don't need anyone high-dollar to do that.

But I want to address your response above.

Your problem is with the Cavs floor spacing, saying that we don't have an inside threat. But, IMO, the fact that you're pointing out the floor spacing problem is a direct indication of no inside threat, implies to me that you see Lebron as a perimeter player.

I disagree. Lebron is at his best in two situations. Driving and dishing, and receiving the ball on cuts to the basket. I would add a third scenario, pointing out his post up advantages, but he clearly is uncomfortable going into the post, or he would have done so by now. My second point, receving the ball on cuts, has happened very little as a regular part of our offense since Mike Brown has come to town.

I actually think Z as a perimeter center actually HELPS Lebron's game, by keeping the middle of the key open for him.

The problem is, nobody respects the Cavs other players, so when Lebron does drive to the hoop, the defense is free to collapse on him because they have no respect for our perimeter game.

I believe a second scorer is absolutely crucial to this, someone with a jump shot. I think two key ingredients actually are necessary. #1, first and foremost, we need a second scorer. Someone who thinks of nothing BUT scoring. Someone aggressive that's going to look to score, instead of waiting around watching for Lebron. The 2nd ingredient is adding some second tier shooters.

Wally just isn't getting it done. Call it a slump, call it playing out of position, I just don't know, but he never got going. Gibson seems to me to be extremely streaky, and of course injury prone this year. Sasha's play this year just disgusts me. It just plain disgusts me. If we could have picked up Jason Kapono for the MLE last year, I think we'd have had more success. A few more shooters like that would help as well I think.

I just don't think adding another interior guy is the answer. I think Joe Smith and Z being able to hit that outside shot just helps, because it forces the other team to bring THEIR big man outside and on the perimeter, opening things up for James.

In the ideal situation, I see James handling the ball less, and being more on a receiving end, in the post, and on cuts to the hoop. I don't buy any of that "James can't move without the ball crap". I saw what he did this summer with Jason Kidd, and I've watched the lack of offensive cohesion from our coaching staff the last 3 years. I think James reputation as having poor movement without the ball is a product of our system, not the other way around.

Mathius

So, you are lobbying for a guy like Michael Redd, who may be available to us? I don't know. We've tried to bring in shooters before and it hasn't eased the problem. Granted, no one as skilled as Redd, but I'm thinking that the problem lies elsewhere.

Watch the Lakers tonight. See how easily Kobe gets the shots he wants, whether it be in the post, on the spot-up, or driving to the basket. Watch how easily the ball is moved until there is a high percentage shot. You rarely see them hoisting up a ridiculous, low percentage shot with no time left on the shot clock.

Now, a lot of this has to do with Phil Jackson and the triangle. I realize this. But even when they occasionally break out of the triangle, their offense moves so freely.

Why? Because they have all pieces that make an offense work. It wasn't like this when Kwame Brown was in there. They were having difficulty getting that shot. As soon as they brought in Gasol, floor spacing became perfect and their offense was virtually unstoppable.

Right now, we don't have one post threat. LeBron is not ready to make that leap. Z is a spot up shooter. I agree that Z's game of picking and popping or just finding a spot and waiting for LeBron to dish him the ball works well, but that should only be one part of the offense (like Okur in Utah). None of our big men have any post game whatsoever (Smith, Z, Wallace, Varejao).

I like what Z brings to the team (when he isn't disappearing like in Game 7 of the Celtics series), but he is our Okur. Where is our Boozer? We don't have it and, as a result, our floor spacing is god awful.

You have a bunch of guys standing around on the perimeter waiting for LeBron to drive... including the opposing defense.

[2LeTTeRS]

I think LeBron is uncoachable. I'm not saying he's a coach killer or that he doesn't understand what it takes to win. But the kid probably hasn't had a coach tell him to do something he didn't want since....well, ever. He seems to just have then inherent disrepect for coaches.

I think you're taking the coach bumping incident and overreacting. Bron had no problems with Silas, and aside from that one incident seems to like Brown. Bron doesn't come off to me as uncoachable at all.

[Mathius]

So, you are lobbying for a guy like Michael Redd, who may be available to us? I don't know. We've tried to bring in shooters before and it hasn't eased the problem. Granted, no one as skilled as Redd, but I'm thinking that the problem lies elsewhere.

Watch the Lakers tonight. See how easily Kobe gets the shots he wants, whether it be in the post, on the spot-up, or driving to the basket. Watch how easily the ball is moved until there is a high percentage shot. You rarely see them hoisting up a ridiculous, low percentage shot with no time left on the shot clock.

Now, a lot of this has to do with Phil Jackson and the triangle. I realize this. But even when they occasionally break out of the triangle, their offense moves so freely.

Why? Because they have all pieces that make an offense work. It wasn't like this when Kwame Brown was in there. They were having difficulty getting that shot. As soon as they brought in Gasol, floor spacing became perfect and their offense was virtually unstoppable.

Right now, we don't have one post threat. LeBron is not ready to make that leap. Z is a spot up shooter. I agree that Z's game of picking and popping or just finding a spot and waiting for LeBron to dish him the ball works well, but that should only be one part of the offense (like Okur in Utah). None of our big men have any post game whatsoever (Smith, Z, Wallace, Varejao).

I like what Z brings to the team (when he isn't disappearing like in Game 7 of the Celtics series), but he is our Okur. Where is our Boozer? We don't have it and, as a result, our floor spacing is god awful.

You have a bunch of guys standing around on the perimeter waiting for LeBron to drive... including the opposing defense.

Michael Redd? Maybe. I think Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson, etc. would work just fine. Someone with range like Redd would work better.

But the rest of your post sortof illustrates what I was talking about, because the key difference is, Kobe is a perimeter player.

He's an assassin when it comes to hitting the big jump shot. His earlier game had a lot of drives in it, but after that knee injury his drives came less and less. Not saying he can't, I'm just saying his bread and butter is his jump shot. He's a perimeter player.

Lebron's money area is the key. Yeah, his jump shot has improved, no matter what the casual fans here say, but in the long run, he does his dirty work from 12 feet in.

That's why I believe Z and Smith are the perfect big man for him. And they both thrived in the playoffs up until Z's snooze fest in Game 7.

I think bringing in shooters was the correct answer, its just that Ferry didn't bring in the right shooters. We don't need anymore streaky guys (although I have to admit, I didn't think Wally was streaky), and we need a new coach.

I mean seriously, how much of a coincidence is it now that every good quality shooter we bring in to Cleveland turns into a streaky no-show guy?

That can only happen a few times before you start questioning the system.

Despite the accomplishments we've made in the last 2 years, I sometimes wonder (if not for age) if we didn't have a better team the last year Paul Silas was in town. The offense ran a lot smoother, I know that for sure, and we had a much better rotation. Our bench team had really gelled under Silas, with Tractor Traylor and Varejo coming off the bench.

Mathius

[vert48]

I disagree just because of his VAST improvement on defense. I don't think it is any coincidence that Mike Brown (a defensive mastermind) was brought in and, almost immediately, LeBron's defense began improving each year he has been here. Right now, he is on the cusp of being an All-Defensive caliber player and I think a lot of that can be attributed to Mike Brown's coaching.



So, you are lobbying for a guy like Michael Redd, who may be available to us? I don't know. We've tried to bring in shooters before and it hasn't eased the problem. Granted, no one as skilled as Redd, but I'm thinking that the problem lies elsewhere.

Watch the Lakers tonight. See how easily Kobe gets the shots he wants, whether it be in the post, on the spot-up, or driving to the basket. Watch how easily the ball is moved until there is a high percentage shot. You rarely see them hoisting up a ridiculous, low percentage shot with no time left on the shot clock.

Now, a lot of this has to do with Phil Jackson and the triangle. I realize this. But even when they occasionally break out of the triangle, their offense moves so freely.

Why? Because they have all pieces that make an offense work. It wasn't like this when Kwame Brown was in there. They were having difficulty getting that shot. As soon as they brought in Gasol, floor spacing became perfect and their offense was virtually unstoppable.

Right now, we don't have one post threat. LeBron is not ready to make that leap. Z is a spot up shooter. I agree that Z's game of picking and popping or just finding a spot and waiting for LeBron to dish him the ball works well, but that should only be one part of the offense (like Okur in Utah). None of our big men have any post game whatsoever (Smith, Z, Wallace, Varejao).

I like what Z brings to the team (when he isn't disappearing like in Game 7 of the Celtics series), but he is our Okur. Where is our Boozer? We don't have it and, as a result, our floor spacing is god awful.

You have a bunch of guys standing around on the perimeter waiting for LeBron to drive... including the opposing defense. The spacing in the Triangle for the Lakers with Gasol is awesome. It is actually better than it was with Shaq.

With Kobe, many Laker fans were convinced that the Lakers needed to follow the Bulls model and find a Scottie and Rodman for Kobe, but Tex always said that a great passing center would be even better. Tex has talked about how guys like Walton and Kareem are what the Triangle was made for. Looks like Tex was right. Having watched Pau for the last few months, I can just imagine prime Kareem or Walton in the Triangle. Yikes!

Lebron needs a back to the basket, low post player. Big guys shooting 3's does not help with the spacing; big guys with their back to the basket that can score and pass create great spacing in the offense.

It is ironic that Boozer is almost as good a fit as you could get with their current makeup. Oh well.

So, RBA, what is the solution for Lebron and the Cavs?
What team, past or present, can Ferry look at as a model to build around Lebron?

[mlh1981]

The Cavs have several players in their rotation who, if they aren't doing their one specific job, they are useless out on the court. If Wally isn't hitting that outside shot, he isn't bringing anything to the table. He doesn't drive to the basket. Ben Wallace is a complete black hole on offense. In many situations, they played 3 on 5 basketball. They then become very predictable. Get the ball to LeBron and get out of the way. Noone else really commands any sort of respect. Plus, they run that same damn pick and roll play with LeBron and Z. The problem is the coaching. If Mike Brown would display some creativity and get the ball to LeBron in a variety of spots, then the defense would be forced to react. They wouldn't know what was coming, and then the outside shooters might get better looks if LeBron kicks it back out to them.

[mlh1981]

Michael Redd? Maybe. I think Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson, etc. would work just fine. Someone with range like Redd would work better.

But the rest of your post sortof illustrates what I was talking about, because the key difference is, Kobe is a perimeter player.

He's an assassin when it comes to hitting the big jump shot. His earlier game had a lot of drives in it, but after that knee injury his drives came less and less. Not saying he can't, I'm just saying his bread and butter is his jump shot. He's a perimeter player.

Lebron's money area is the key. Yeah, his jump shot has improved, no matter what the casual fans here say, but in the long run, he does his dirty work from 12 feet in.

That's why I believe Z and Smith are the perfect big man for him. And they both thrived in the playoffs up until Z's snooze fest in Game 7.

I think bringing in shooters was the correct answer, its just that Ferry didn't bring in the right shooters. We don't need anymore streaky guys (although I have to admit, I didn't think Wally was streaky), and we need a new coach.

I mean seriously, how much of a coincidence is it now that every good quality shooter we bring in to Cleveland turns into a streaky no-show guy?

That can only happen a few times before you start questioning the system.

Despite the accomplishments we've made in the last 2 years, I sometimes wonder (if not for age) if we didn't have a better team the last year Paul Silas was in town. The offense ran a lot smoother, I know that for sure, and we had a much better rotation. Our bench team had really gelled under Silas, with Tractor Traylor and Varejo coming off the bench.

Mathius


It's just not the system that should be questioned, it's Mike Brown's rotations as well. He plays/benches guys for no apparent reason. They can't get comfortable out there, because there is no pattern to what he does. They don't know what to expect. You've talked about this before, so I def. know that you are aware of this.

Where was Devin Brown? I simply cannot fathom WHY he ride the pine for basically the entire playoffs. He started a good portion of the season, and then gets benched?

It also seemed like when we needed offense on the court, Brown had defensive players out there (Andy, Ben). When we needed defense, he had guys whose strong suit was playing offense. He got it backwards.

[Joey3000]

I think Cavs have a very solid young pg in west.

[abuC]

So, you are lobbying for a guy like Michael Redd, who may be available to us? I don't know. We've tried to bring in shooters before and it hasn't eased the problem. Granted, no one as skilled as Redd, but I'm thinking that the problem lies elsewhere.



That's mainly because none of the shooters who were brought in can create their own shots off the dribble. The plays that were run for Hughes would work much better with Redd, especially the curl screens where Hughes bricked many open jumpers from 15-18 feet. Unlike Hughes, his skills are more of a compliment to LeBron, and he can make his own shot without LeBron's help, which the Cavs dont have.

As I said, plug Jason Richardson or Redd into the current Cavs in place of Wally and they get by the Celtics.

[Mathius]

That's mainly because none of the shooters who were brought in can create their own shots off the dribble. The plays that were run for Hughes would work much better with Redd, especially the curl screens where Hughes bricked many open jumpers from 15-18 feet. Unlike Hughes, his skills are more of a compliment to LeBron, and he can make his own shot without LeBron's help, which the Cavs dont have.

As I said, plug Jason Richardson or Redd into the current Cavs in place of Wally and they get by the Celtics.

I'm not sure those were actual plays run for Hughes. I don't think Mike Brown knew what a play was before this year.

But the rest of your post is spot on. We need a scorer that looks to create his own shot, and an outside shot would be an added bonus. Then a few role player type spot up shooters would probably round out the lineup.

I don't think the answer is another inside presence. It might get us a title if we had an all star type big man down there, but I don't think it's the only solution, and I think it would have to be a hell of a big man to make up for the lack of a perimeter threat we have now.

Mathius