When was Michael Jordan in his prime?

[White Chocolate]

Some say it was from 1987-1990. Some say it was from 1991-1993. Some even say he never had a prime. Is it possible that Michael Jordan never had a prime?

[mjbulls23]

anywhere from 87-93. IMO it was 91-92

[BULLZ]

physical prime was 1988

overall prime was probably 1992

[ConanRulesNBC]

In his prime? Definitely during the first three championships. But he was still without question the best player in the league when he came back in 1995.

[RoseCity07]

I think he got better as he aged. He wasn't able to do the same things in 96-98 but his basketball decision making was at it's best. His last 3 seasons with the Bulls were my favorite to watch.

[White Chocolate]

I think he got better as he aged. He wasn't able to do the same things in 96-98 but his basketball decision making was at it's best. His last 3 seasons with the Bulls were my favorite to watch.


His athletic peak was long over at that point, but his ball IQ was off the charts. Larry Bird and possibly Magic Johnson were the only ones that came even close in terms of IQ.

[Younggrease]

His athletic peak was long over at that point, but his ball IQ was off the charts. Larry Bird and possibly Magic Johnson were the only ones that came even close in terms of IQ.

you basketball was actually being played before the 80's.

[White Chocolate]

you basketball was actually being played before the 80's.


Care to name any others that can match those 3 in terms of IQ?

[RedBlackAttack]

physical prime was 1988

overall prime was probably 1992
I would agree.

I may even put his physical prime a year earlier... '87.

[Loki]

His prime was from '89-'93. Physical prime from '88-'91 imo.

If I had to narrow it down further, his absolute peak all things considered was from '90-'92. Just watch some of his playoff games from then and you'll see.

[Manute for Ever!]

Care to name any others that can match those 3 in terms of IQ?

Bill Russell, Bill Walton

[White Chocolate]

Bill Russell, Bill Walton


They may have been great, but I don't think of those 2 guys when I think of highest ball IQ.

[Indian guy]

From the 87-88 season till 92-93. If I had to narrow it down I'd say the first 3-peat. Athletically he peaked in 88-89 - I'm watching a game from that season right now against the Hornets(LOKI should know this game - him having uploaded a few plays from it on YT) and just watching him move is a sight in itself. Best athlete to ever play the game.

[Kblaze8855]

88-92 and if I needed to pick just one year...id say either 1990 or 1992. He was always a near unstoppable scorer but his man to man D fell off a bit after then and before then his defense was more statistically great than really great. Jordan did not play his best defense as the DPOY. He just played the most obvious and highlight reel worthy defense.

As a total player I think he peaked when he stropped caring what it looked like he was doing and just willed the team to win by any means. None of that pointless gambling for steals or athletic ability based gimmick defense to get blocks. No going to the scorers table to check if they had his points and assists right since he wanted to prove he coulkd get triple doubles so bad hed make unneeded passes and demand players shoot outside their comfort zones to get the assist.

Jordan peaked when he didnt give a damn anymore and just went to work. He just happened to be so crazy talented and skilled that he could be better than everyone else while not playing the most fundamental ball.

In 87 to 89 or so he was the best in the league(or least least not behind anyone) but by 92 he was just better than everyone by such a margin it was laughable.

And now in direct contradiction of what I just said I must add....Hakeem, Robinson, and Barkley might have been close in 92. But close in the way Duncan and Garnett were close to Shaq in 2000-2002. That "Its close...but it isnt close" way.

[dawsey6]

I agree with the general consensus. Jordan's peak was about 91-92 as an overall player.


They may have been great, but I don't think of those 2 guys when I think of highest ball IQ.

At least not on the offensive end of the floor. Bill Russell was definitely the master of the defensive end, however. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Michael Jordan were certainly masters of the offensive end.

[Maestro33]

1992. It was literally "What do I feel like doing?" to him. To get a sense of the attitude and mindset combined with his peak skill, check out Air Time namely where he plays the Heat. Just wow. Total control.

[ZOMG]

Jordan peaked sometime around 1981. After that, he just got old and wasn't able to do many of the things he did as a senior in high school. His vertical dropped considerably and he wasn't nearly as quick anymore.

I'm telling you, if you haven't seen footage of Jordan in his All-American HS senior season, you haven't seen him in his prime. I have, and that pretty much makes me cooler than any of you. Sorry.

The "old Jordan" (1983 onwards) was still fun to watch, as he was able to compensate for his diminishing athletic ability by increasing his knowledge of the game, but it was never the same. Of course, by 1995 he was so old, it just made you cringe watching him try to run and jump with those ancient knees. Don't people usually die around 32 years of age??

By the way, I know a guy who claims to have seen black & white footage of a 10-year-old MJ playing in the park back in 1973. He says that's when Jordan peaked, and assures me that if I only saw the footage, I'd agree in a nanosecond. I guess we'll never know.

[Psileas]

They may have been great, but I don't think of those 2 guys when I think of highest ball IQ.

Then you simply don't know much about these players.


At least not on the offensive end of the floor. Bill Russell was definitely the master of the defensive end, however. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Michael Jordan were certainly masters of the offensive end.

They had an extraordinary IQ regardless of the end. Yes, they weren't the greatest scorers, but then again, when was Magic? The point is, these guys understood the team concept really well and they functioned as second playmakers for their teams. John Havlicek in the early 70's had told that his team would miss Russell in offense even more than in defense. Jack Ramsey told that his '77 Blazers made more layups than any team he ever remembered, in a big part thanks to Walton's passing and playmaking.

[Manute for Ever!]

Then you simply don't know much about these players.



They had an extraordinary IQ regardless of the end. Yes, they weren't the greatest scorers, but then again, when was Magic? The point is, these guys understood the team concept really well and they functioned as second playmakers for their teams. John Havlicek in the early 70's had told that his team would miss Russell in offense even more than in defense. Jack Ramsey told that his '77 Blazers made more layups than any team he ever remembered, in a big part thanks to Walton's passing and playmaking.


When Bill Walton was a rookie he had some valuable advice for Jack Ramsey; "Don't assume we know anything". That type of player mentality can't be taught, that is why I believe the highest basketball IQs belong to Russell, Walton, Bird, Jordan (in no order and in my opinion)

[Psileas]

He was also the only player who, while in the UCLA, spent countless hours just to ask John Wooden about why they ran every play they did. Wooden himself told so and that Walton was a real student of the game.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

His prime was from '89-'93. Physical prime from '88-'91 imo.

If I had to narrow it down further, his absolute peak all things considered was from '90-'92. Just watch some of his playoff games from then and you'll see.

Hey Loki why did it read "Banned" under your name the other day?
Shaq.

[ikoiko]

Jordan peaked sometime around 1981. After that, he just got old and wasn't able to do many of the things he did as a senior in high school. His vertical dropped considerably and he wasn't nearly as quick anymore.

I'm telling you, if you haven't seen footage of Jordan in his All-American HS senior season, you haven't seen him in his prime. I have, and that pretty much makes me cooler than any of you. Sorry.

The "old Jordan" (1983 onwards) was still fun to watch, as he was able to compensate for his diminishing athletic ability by increasing his knowledge of the game, but it was never the same. Of course, by 1995 he was so old, it just made you cringe watching him try to run and jump with those ancient knees. Don't people usually die around 32 years of age??

By the way, I know a guy who claims to have seen black & white footage of a 10-year-old MJ playing in the park back in 1973. He says that's when Jordan peaked, and assures me that if I only saw the footage, I'd agree in a nanosecond. I guess we'll never know.

this is pretty much the greatest post i've read on ISH.

[bdreason]

I'de probably go with the '91-'92 season.

[aau]

kblaze

mike was the game's best player from 87-89??!!!

86-87 mvp magic finals mvp magic
87-88 mvp jordan b-2-b champ magic
88-89 mvp magic undefeated b4 finals inj
89-90 mvp magic jordan 4th ppg title 2nd stls title

game's best scorer .... no doubt

best player??!!!

[Killer_Instinct]

When Jordan was in the fetus, he was in his prime.


A 5 year old Jordan>You and your favorite player(s).

http://www.sneakerfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/michael_jordan_child_1.jpg

[dafunkphenom]

If I had to pick 1 season, I would say some of the most unreal highlights came in the 1989-1990 season. He was truly "AIR" Jordan.
He averaged 33.6ppg and 2.77 steals, 6.9reb, 6.3 assists in regualr season
36.7ppg, 7.2reb, 6.8 assists in playoffs
69 points in playoffs against Cleveland.
All NBA first team and All NBA defensive team

Magic won MVP but you could tell that Michael was becomming the most dominant. Even though they lost to Detroit in 7, you just had the feeling for the first time that Michael was soon going to turn the Bulls into a dominant NBA team. Scottie was coming into his own around this time too.

[Loki]

kblaze

mike was the game's best player from 87-89??!!!

86-87 mvp magic finals mvp magic
87-88 mvp jordan b-2-b champ magic
88-89 mvp magic undefeated b4 finals inj
89-90 mvp magic jordan 4th ppg title 2nd stls title

game's best scorer .... no doubt

best player??!!!

:oldlol:

1988 and later a case could be made either way. Not in '87, though.


Hey Loki why did it read "Banned" under your name the other day?
Shaq.

I was banned for a few days. Not sure who did it, but I guess it had to be ISH.

[guy]

kblaze

mike was the game's best player from 87-89??!!!

86-87 mvp magic finals mvp magic
87-88 mvp jordan b-2-b champ magic
88-89 mvp magic undefeated b4 finals inj
89-90 mvp magic jordan 4th ppg title 2nd stls title

game's best scorer .... no doubt

best player??!!!

MVPs aren't always given to the best player in the league. I mean do you really think Dirk Nowitzki or Steve Nash were ever considered the best player in the league just cause they won MVPs? No one ever considered them ever better then Kobe or Duncan. Barkley and Malone won MVPs in 93 and 97, but no one ever considered them better then Jordan.

[JPR]

When wasn't he (was he human or a God?) in his prime? that is the question.

he was in his prime as soon as he came out the womb. he's still in his prime and could school 99% of the league.

[Scott Pippen]

physical prime was 1988

overall prime was probably 1992

agree:applause:

[catzhernandez]

His prime was from '89-'93. Physical prime from '88-'91 imo.




oh is it now? i couldn't tell.. :rolleyes:

[Loki]

oh is it now? i couldn't tell.. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

[305Baller]

The 72-10 season.

and I heard he dressed up as Optimus Prime for halloween that year...hehehe...hehe....heh....(looks around room)

[aau]

guy

from 86-87 to 89-90 magic won 3 of the 4 league mvps
a finals mvp , , a repeat and 3 str8 finals appearances

and you bring up dirk and nash??!!!

....

loki

"88 and later a case can be made either way"

really??!!!

would it also be a reach to suggest that the further removed
jordan gets from his playing days , , , the better he gets

it's not enough that he owned the 90s entirely

you want to give him magic , bird and isiah's shine too

........... care to state your case?

[Manute for Ever!]

guy

"88 and later a case can be made either way"

really??!!!

would it also be a reach to suggest that the further removed
jordan gets from his playing days , , , the better he gets

it's not enough that he owned the 90s entirely

you want to give him magic , bird and isiah's shine too

........... care to state your case?

Because in 1988 he was MVP, Leading Scorer, DPOY, Dunk Champ and All-Star MVP

[Kblaze8855]

kblaze

mike was the game's best player from 87-89??!!!

86-87 mvp magic finals mvp magic
87-88 mvp jordan b-2-b champ magic
88-89 mvp magic undefeated b4 finals inj
89-90 mvp magic jordan 4th ppg title 2nd stls title

game's best scorer .... no doubt

best player??!!!

I said he was either the best or at least the equal of anyone. And he was. Im not one to disrespect Magic and Bird. I believe them to be about as effective as Jordan. But from 87-89 Jordan was already basically the player that they themselves consider the best of all time(well...they say that most of the time). If 1988 Jordan remained the same player his entire career hed still be considered the GOAT by most I believe. Granted if 88 Magic(23/13/8 I believe) or Bird(30/9/6 on 53% shooting, 41 from 3, and 92 from the line) did that their entire careers you could say the same thing.

[guy]

guy

from 86-87 to 89-90 magic won 3 of the 4 league mvps
a finals mvp , , a repeat and 3 str8 finals appearances

and you bring up dirk and nash??!!!

....



Ok good point. I'm not going to argue about the 87 season. But in 88 Jordan won the MVP and DPOY, while in 89 Jordan just didn't have a great team, which is why he didn't win MVP. In 90, Magic won MVP, but Charles Barkley got screwed, and actually got the the most first-place votes but some people didn't like his personality and left him off their ballots completely. Now like I said, MVPs don't mean best player, it reflects alot on team success. Magic was great, but his teammates were great as well, and much better then Jordan's, which is a big reason why his teams had more success, which is a big reason why he was winning more MVPs and getting more MVPs votes then Jordan at the time.

[Lebron23]

Because in 1988 he was MVP, Leading Scorer, DPOY, Dunk Champ and All-Star MVP


I think he is the only NBA Player that accomplished that amazing feat.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

during the season he took off to play baseball. sad...but true...u figure it would be bettween a 7 peat...

[gpfanz]

Prime or no prime he beat everybody in his later yrs gee

[Psileas]

Magic was great, but his teammates were great as well, and much better then Jordan's, which is a big reason why his teams had more success, which is a big reason why he was winning more MVPs and getting more MVPs votes then Jordan at the time.

An equally big role played Magic's ability to make them look even better and I'm sure many voters thought that way. After all, let's face it, you don't win 60 games without at least a few very good teammates (which obviously Magic had).
As for the 1990 voting, let's also not forget that Magic was continuously screwed between 1980 and 1986, at times falling behind guys like Gus Williams, Bernard King and Dominique Wilkins. And that because some would find his personality too fake and that he was more flashy than dominant, while others didn't want to admit that from 1982 and on, it was no longer Kareem's team.

[guy]

An equally big role played Magic's ability to make them look even better and I'm sure many voters thought that way. After all, let's face it, you don't win 60 games without at least a few very good teammates (which obviously Magic had).
As for the 1990 voting, let's also not forget that Magic was continuously screwed between 1980 and 1986, at times falling behind guys like Gus Williams, Bernard King and Dominique Wilkins. And that because some would find his personality too fake and that he was more flashy than dominant, while others didn't want to admit that from 1982 and on, it was no longer Kareem's team.

I wasn't really old enough to watch and understand too much at the time, and I'm going by alot of what I've read and heard. But out of curiosity, what years before 1987 did Magic really deserve the MVP? I don't mean he should've gotten more votes then certain players, but that he should've won the MVP? Cause from what I've heard, it seemed like Moses Malone and Larry Bird deserved those MVPs they won more then anyone else.

[Da_Realist]

loki

"88 and later a case can be made either way"

really??!!!

would it also be a reach to suggest that the further removed
jordan gets from his playing days , , , the better he gets

it's not enough that he owned the 90s entirely

you want to give him magic , bird and isiah's shine too

........... care to state your case?

This is from 1989 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX9dL_FdBc4). This isn't an argument against Magic, Larry or Isiah. I'm only posting this video because there were at least talks of MJ being the best ever even back then -- not just the best at the time. It wasn't true...yet, but he was in the conversation.

[Da_Realist]

An equally big role played Magic's ability to make them look even better and I'm sure many voters thought that way. After all, let's face it, you don't win 60 games without at least a few very good teammates (which obviously Magic had).
As for the 1990 voting, let's also not forget that Magic was continuously screwed between 1980 and 1986, at times falling behind guys like Gus Williams, Bernard King and Dominique Wilkins. And that because some would find his personality too fake and that he was more flashy than dominant, while others didn't want to admit that from 1982 and on, it was no longer Kareem's team.

Looking back at some of Magic's earlier games...I think he may have been penalized for playing with so much talent. He essentially shared point guard duties until Norm Nixon was traded in 83/84. And he was always surrounded by such a depth of talent that he didn't really need to showcase his game. It wasn't until about 1987 that we saw the full facet of Magic Johnson's game. For as great as he was, he was actually a late bloomer, in my opinion.

[Psileas]

I wasn't really old enough to watch and understand too much at the time, and I'm going by alot of what I've read and heard. But out of curiosity, what years before 1987 did Magic really deserve the MVP? I don't mean he should've gotten more votes then certain players, but that he should've won the MVP? Cause from what I've heard, it seemed like Moses Malone and Larry Bird deserved those MVPs they won more then anyone else.

I should probably mention it, I was pointing out the general low positions where some ranked Magic up to then, not that he should necessarily win the MVP in some of these seasons.
He should definitely have a case in 1982, though: That's the season he came closer than anyone not named Oscar to averaging a triple double, plus led the league in steals, plus shot 54% in FG and of course led the Lakers to the best record in the West. And he finished eighth, with some of the choices above him being borderline comical: Gus Williams, Robert Parish, Sidney Moncrief? Please... He should also definitely be top-2 in 1984 and 1986, even though Bird deserved them both.

[aau]

manute

88 was a great year for mike no doubt
evenstill , , he was not considered
the best player in the game

......

kblaze

during the time period in question

jordan was putting up 32-37ppg 6asst 6reb
magic was putting up 22-24ppg 13asst 6reb 60 wins multi-mvps and rings

i'm not one to disrespect mike , but damn

can a ninja get a lil credit

.......

guy

that should be enough , you think?

.......

da real

from the time he entered the league
jordan's been in the conversation

that's irrefutable , indisputable

however you wanna say it

[Psileas]

Looking back at some of Magic's earlier games...I think he may have been penalized for playing with so much talent. He essentially shared point guard duties until Norm Nixon was traded in 83/84. And he was always surrounded by such a depth of talent that he didn't really need to showcase his game. It wasn't until about 1987 that we saw the full facet of Magic Johnson's game. For as great as he was, he was actually a late bloomer, in my opinion.

Or, at least, he looked that way considering the number of seasons, not age. Because, by age, he was considered one of the earliest bloomers, leading his team to the NCAA championship in just 2 years, then winning the championship and finals' MVP at 20.
Bird was more than 3 years his senior and for sure wasn't what Magic was at the same young age. But Bird belonged to the early bloomers considering seasons played (ROY, MVP contender since his rookie season), but he enjoyed his best seasons at the ages of 29-32.

[Da_Realist]

Or, at least, he looked that way considering the number of seasons, not age. Because, by age, he was considered one of the earliest bloomers, leading his team to the NCAA championship in just 2 years, then winning the championship and finals' MVP at 20.
Bird was more than 3 years his senior and for sure wasn't what Magic was at the same young age. But Bird belonged to the early bloomers considering seasons played (ROY, MVP contender since his rookie season), but he enjoyed his best seasons at the ages of 29-32.

I had no idea there was such an age discrepancy. They both entered the same year so I assumed they were around the same age. Interesting...

[Loki]

loki

"88 and later a case can be made either way"

really??!!!

would it also be a reach to suggest that the further removed
jordan gets from his playing days , , , the better he gets

it's not enough that he owned the 90s entirely

you want to give him magic , bird and isiah's shine too

........... care to state your case?

Sure:

In 1988, he was the best offensive player in the league (scoring title, a 123 offensive rating as compared to Magic's 118). He was also the best defensive player in the league (DPOY, defensive first team, second consecutive season of 200+ steals/100+ blocks, which had never in recorded history been done once before Jordan and to this day has only been done 4 times; he had 259 stl/131 blk that year). He was the most statistically dominant player in the league, leading in PER (by an incredible 4.7 points), EFF, Win Shares (led the league) and Player Wins (led the league). He was already one of the two or three best clutch players in the league. He led a decidedly poor team to 50 wins on his shoulders while playing superb all around basketball (35/6/6/3/1.5/54% regular season and 36/7/4/2.4/1.0/53% playoffs, leading his team over a vastly more talented Cavs team).

Like I said, he definitely had a case. Deal with it.

[Kblaze8855]

I had no idea there was such an age discrepancy. They both entered the same year so I assumed they were around the same age. Interesting...

Bird was in college for 5 years because he transferred and Magic only played 2 years. Bird was like 23 as a rookie.

[aau]

deal with it??!!

because he put up some crazy stats??!!!

for all of that and a bag of chips , what'd it get him

86-87 bulls . . . . 40-42 1st round loss
87-88 bulls . . . . 50-32 semi-finals loss
88-89 bulls . . . . 47-35 conf. finals loss
89-90 bulls . . . . 55-27 conf. finals loss

cries of . . . ballhog , , overrated , , selfish , , arrogant
doesn't make teammates better , a terrible leader etc

is this what i should deal with . . . . lmao

bottomline lok , and i know it's hard for you to grasp

but stats don't make you the best player

. . . . . winning does

[Loki]

deal with it??!!

because he put up some crazy stats??!!!

for all of that and a bag of chips , what'd it get him

86-87 bulls . . . . 40-42 1st round loss
87-88 bulls . . . . 50-32 semi-finals loss
88-89 bulls . . . . 47-35 conf. finals loss
89-90 bulls . . . . 55-27 conf. finals loss

cries of . . . ballhog , , overrated , , selfish , , arrogant
doesn't make teammates better , a terrible leader etc

is this what i should deal with . . . . lmao

bottomline lok , and i know it's hard for you to grasp

but stats don't make you the best player

. . . . . winning does

He did win (50 wins with a subpar cast and beating a vastly more talented team in the Finals). He won as much as was possible given what he had.

Did Magic beat any teams that year that were more talented than the Lakers, never mind vastly more talented? Oh, wait...

Btw, LOL @ listing the 1990 season, as if Magic was better than Jordan by that point. :oldlol: Join reality, aau. This is just another example of why Laker fans are THE most obnoxious and braindead fanbase in all of sports. Everything revolves around the purple and gold for them, and if it doesn't, they make terrible arguments to try and bring it back to LA (best player, best team etc.).

[juju151111]

U guys no noting.Go to mark 00:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v1S7J2dzJI Prime Mj there.Dunk on any 10 year old.

[aau]

that was weak lok

it's obvious you're not long for this one , so
i'll just say my piece and keep it moving

it never ceases to amaze me how you jordanaires consider
laker fans to be obnoxious and braindead , yet , when
confronted with factual evidence , you resort to
namecalling and wide-based generalizations
. . . . . cry much , lok-lok?

let's see , laker fans have witnessed championship caliber ball in
every decade since forever . . they've also witnessed some
of the greatest ballplayers the game has ever seen on
a daily basis since the game's inception . . . . . . . .

contrarily , the jordanaires have seen greatness , individually and/or
collectively , 6 whole seasons during the weakest era ever no less
yet ,, for some odd reason you believe yourselves to be the
more knowledgeable fan ... you couldn't be more clueless
if you tried

just for the record lok , , during the 50 win season
the bulls lost in the semi-finals . . not the finals
. . . not even the conference finals

so NO!!!! . . . . he was not WINNING!!!!

[Loki]

that was weak lok

it's obvious you're not long for this one , so
i'll just say my piece and keep it moving

it never ceases to amaze me how you jordanaires consider
laker fans to be obnoxious and braindead , yet , when
confronted with factual evidence , you resort to
namecalling and wide-based generalizations
. . . . . cry much , lok-lok?

let's see , laker fans have witnessed championship caliber ball in
every decade since forever . . they've also witnessed some
of the greatest ballplayers the game has ever seen on
a daily basis since the game's inception . . . . . . . .

contrarily , the jordanaires have seen greatness , individually and/or
collectively , 6 whole seasons during the weakest era ever no less
yet ,, for some odd reason you believe yourselves to be the
more knowledgeable fan ... you couldn't be more clueless
if you tried

just for the record lok , , during the 50 win season
the bulls lost in the semi-finals . . not the finals
. . . not even the conference finals

so NO!!!! . . . . he was not WINNING!!!!

:roll: :roll:


just for the record lok , , during the 50 win season
the bulls lost in the semi-finals . . not the finals
. . . not even the conference finals

so NO!!!! . . . . he was not WINNING!!!

Like I said, he won as much as he could with what he had, matched up against far superio teams talent-wise. Did the Lakers beat any vastly more talented teams in the playoffs that year the way the Bulls did? Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Manute for Ever!]

it never ceases to amaze me how you jordanaires consider
laker fans to be obnoxious and braindead , yet , when
confronted with factual evidence , you resort to
namecalling and wide-based generalizations
. . . . . cry much , lok-lok?


Isn't that what you just did? :confusedshrug:

[eliteballer]

:roll: :roll:



Like I said, he won as much as he could with what he had, matched up against far superio teams talent-wise. Did the Lakers beat any vastly more talented teams in the playoffs that year the way the Bulls did? Yeah, that's what I thought.

:roll: Which one of these teams featured a top 5 player all-time(Jordan) with a top 50 all-timer(Pippen)/MVP caliber player?

[juju151111]

:roll: Which one of these teams featured a top 5 player all-time(Jordan) with a top 50 all-timer(Pippen)/MVP caliber player?
LMAO pip wasn;t no damn all star during his first 3 years.His 1st year he was a bench warmer with no kind of shot.M freaking thought him 60% of his offensive moves for god sakes.Go check pip stats in playoff gms.U will see alot of 5-17 and crap.

[Loki]

:roll: Which one of these teams featured a top 5 player all-time(Jordan) with a top 50 all-timer(Pippen)/MVP caliber player?

Pippen was a 7 pt/4 reb 19 mpg benchwarmer during the season in question (1988). When I said that they beat a vastly more talented team, I was referring to the Cavs that postseason. Try to follow the conversation.

[woshiftren]

athletic prime is 1984-1990,no doubt about it
he began to lose athletism since 1990-91 season

[swi7ch]

i think the question is: when was jordan NOT in his prime?

[CavaliersFTW]

Care to name any others that can match those 3 in terms of IQ?
Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, John Havlicek, Bill Russell, Bill Walton, Jerry Lucas

All have IQ at least equivilant to MJ, and I'm probably missing quite a few guys particularly from the 70s :confusedshrug: MJ's IQ was high but your overrating it while simultaneously not knowing jack about the other players who compare favorably to him in that regard. Some guys, like Jerry Lucas, were flat out memory geniuses on and off the court who memorized every shot every opponent had ever taken. Don't Pretend MJ was one of the smartest players to ever play if all you've got is tunnel vision that only encapsulates him and the era he played in.

[DStebb716]

Certainly not when he bought the Bobcats.

[I<3NBA]

Certainly not when he bought the Bobcats.
he was in his prime tho when he picked Kwame Brown. prime idiocy.

[Round Mound]

Prime 86-98

Peek 88-93

[bwink23]

Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, John Havlicek, Bill Russell, Bill Walton, Jerry Lucas

All have IQ at least equivilant to MJ, and I'm probably missing quite a few guys particularly from the 70s :confusedshrug: MJ's IQ was high but your overrating it while simultaneously not knowing jack about the other players who compare favorably to him in that regard. Some guys, like Jerry Lucas, were flat out memory geniuses on and off the court who memorized every shot every opponent had ever taken. Don't Pretend MJ was one of the smartest players to ever play if all you've got is tunnel vision that only encapsulates him and the era he played in.


Some people confuse Bball I.Q. with ridiculous anticipation and reaction time. Jordan had the latter in abundance. But i still maintain Larry Bird had the highest I.Q. of any player i've seen.

[Smoke117]

Pippen was a 7 pt/4 reb 19 mpg benchwarmer during the season in question (1988). When I said that they beat a vastly more talented team, I was referring to the Cavs that postseason. Try to follow the conversation.


Really? negro. Because Pippen had that migraine (which you cant even see through less play basketball if you've never had a real migraine). By the way is Scottie Pippen is so soft why did he take that charge vs Karl Malone that ****ed up his back!?

[TheFan]

Prime as player: 1988
Athletic prime:1986-90

[bizil]

For me, I think MJ was in his prime in 1998 at 35 years old. Sure he was past his athletic prime. And maybe even past his peak. But the end of peak DOESN'T mean the end of prime all the time. It's like climbing a mountain. U get close enough to the top to where u have achieved a lot. But then u reach the peak (93 three peat). Then u start to go down the mountain, but are still close enough to the top where u are still up mad high (second three peat, still best player in the L, multiple MVP's). That's MJ's career. His prime was still going at 35. He was doing too great and accomplishing too much not to be still in his prime.

Athletic prime is one thing. Peak is one thing. But overall prime and dominance is a different and most important argument. The only reason why MJ wasn't at his peak in '98 in terms of playing ability is because he wasn't as athletic. Which is natural. But u gotta realize in '98 in terms of stature and how he ended in 98 with the Finals performance and last shot, that MJ NEVER stood on higher ground. A Finals MVP, sixth title, still the best player in the L, another scoring title..... Need I say more, MJ was STILL in his prime at 35 years of age!!!

[bizil]

Prime 86-98

Peek 88-93

U got it right on the money! MJ was still in his prime at 35 years old in 98. People often confuse peak with prime. It can be different cases often times. The real test with players who have great athletic ability comes when u begin to lose that athletic ability. Is it a gradual process like Jordan or Nique (Nique was also STILL in his prime at 34 or 35) where u can overcome that to still be great. Or is it a bad injury like Hill, Penny, or T Mac where u suffer it in your 20's and can't get back to where u were in your 30's. It's natural to lose athletic ability. But it doesn't mean u lose your skill, tricks, and IQ. MJ was a great fundamental player with no flaws. He had arguably the greatest midrange jumper of all time. He's arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time, especially at SG. He's arguably the greatest passing SG of all time. He's arguably the greatest postup SG of all time. All of these factors can still be effective once the athletic ability begins to decline.

[Derivative]

1991, highest regular season and playoff PER year out of his whole career

[woshiftren]

Prime as player: 1988
Athletic prime:1986-90

agree, do not understand why so many people think 93 was jordan prime,
the 69pt game season(1989-90) ,was his LAST physical prime year,
in 1993, he was NOT even close to what he was, in terms of athletism