Kobe article. The best I have ever read.

[Emile]

Just wow.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/chris_ballard/05/27/kobe0602/index.html

Please don't start a flame war here, no hater/groupie nonsense, whatever. Just read the piece. It's really something out of this world. Unbelievable stuff, definitely, I'd say. Greatness. Pulitzer. No doubt. One bit. About it.

[dafunkphenom]

What more can you say really?

[gb8]

Well Kobe seems like he would get on my nerves as a teammate. But what a beast.

[ihatetimthomas]

Great read, really puts into perspective his drive and will and why he seems like a loner. It points out his faults as a person, but incorporates that into why he is the player he is today and why no can touch him.

If you can't respect that drive to be the best, then there is something wrong with you. You dont have to like the guy but you must respect his drive.

[VCMVP1551]

Good article.

[ForceOfNature]

Excellent article, good find Emile. :applause:

This is actually one reason why I stopped hating the guy and actually became his fan, he has that competitive edge which is very inspiring actually. I can identify with him because in many ways, I see my own personality. He is extremely similar to a certain Michael Jordan (my favorite player of all time) in that they both approach the game in an extremely competitive standpoint, and have that intense killer instinct. They both have that insane confidence and desire to take over the game. That is how I wish more players approached the game.

[Da_Realist]

Great article. I posted this earlier in the Kobe thread.

My thoughts? "You gotta know when to hold em...know when to fold em". Sometimes you have to sacrifice a battle here and there to win the war. Young Kobe was so competitive that he wanted to win every battle (personal) without keeping track of the war (winning). This excerpt illustrates my point.


In Bryant's mind, however, no one is unbeatable. As a rookie with the Lakers, despite his coming straight out of high school, he approached Harris. "He said, 'Coach, if you just give me the ball and clear out, I can beat anybody in this league,' " recalls Harris. When that pitch didn't work, the 6' 6" Bryant returned. "Then he'd say, 'Coach, I can post up anybody who's guarding me. If you just get me in there and clear it out, I can post up anybody.' " Harris chuckles. "I said, 'Kobe, I know you can, but right now you can't do it at a high enough rate for the team we have, and I'm not going to tell Shaquille O'Neal to get out of the way so you can do this.' Kobe didn't like it. He understood it, but in his heart he didn't accept it."

He's always wanted it his way or the highway. That has cost him in the past. I think Kobe has always wanted to be the best individual nba player of all time...not necessarily the best winner. Kobe would die to play MJ one on one and I'm sure MJ would happily accept the challenge, but I have a feeling MJ would rather spank one of those championship Laker teams from earlier this decade than beating Kobe Bryant one on one. And therein lies the difference.

[NotWorthy]

Nice article, Kobe is crazy!

[Myth]

Great article. I especially love reading about when he was younger.

[Vendetta]

Just wow.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/chris_ballard/05/27/kobe0602/index.html

Please don't start a flame war here, no hater/groupie nonsense, whatever. Just read the piece. It's really something out of this world. Unbelievable stuff, definitely, I'd say. Greatness. Pulitzer. No doubt. One bit. About it.

Pulitzer? If I were one to take the Lord's name in vain, I'd be doing so right now. Pulitzer? Only from a Kobe fan will you find such blatant idiocy.

[Indian guy]

This is no surprise, really. If you just watch Kobe on the court you'll easily notice everything that was written in the article.

[leopoldstotch]

kobe bryant. what's more to say about him. we can all appreciate him, but also the guy you don't want to be teammates with. his drive could drive a team down in the closing seconds of a close game, but also help a team come back from 20 down to win a crucial game.

[Fresh-2-Def]

I started to read it, but when I saw how long it was, I said f*ck it. I don't like Kobe that damn much.

[jmill]

Great article. I posted this earlier in the Kobe thread.

My thoughts? "You gotta know when to hold em...know when to fold em". Sometimes you have to sacrifice a battle here and there to win the war. Young Kobe was so competitive that he wanted to win every battle (personal) without keeping track of the war (winning). This excerpt illustrates my point.



He's always wanted it his way or the highway. That has cost him in the past. I think Kobe has always wanted to be the best individual nba player of all time...not necessarily the best winner. Kobe would die to play MJ one on one and I'm sure MJ would happily accept the challenge, but I have a feeling MJ would rather spank one of those championship Laker teams from earlier this decade than beating Kobe Bryant one on one. And therein lies the difference.

lol

[Apples]

I wonder who the other 28 players are that love the game like AI and Kobe.

[jmill]

The funniest thing to me is that Michael Jordan had a reputation for being an ******* to his teammates as well but no one ever talks about it. What he did to Kwame Brown was just sad.

Kudos to MJ on cultivating the perfect public image though so all of his flaws are ignored.

But alot of you are criticizing Kobe for the same flaws that Jordan had, whether you want to believe it or not. And Jordan is my favorite player ever along with Kobe.

But hey, Republicans buy shoes too.

[juju151111]

The funniest thing to me is that Michael Jordan had a reputation for being an ******* to his teammates as well but no one ever talks about it. What he did to Kwame Brown was just sad.

Kudos to MJ on cultivating the perfect public image though so all of his flaws are ignored.

But alot of you are criticizing Kobe for the same flaws that Jordan had, whether you want to believe it or not. And Jordan is my favorite player ever along with Kobe.

But hey, Republicans buy shoes too.
lol there are plenty of people who wrote about mj being bad to his teammate.He wanted them to be better and he yelled at them when they do dumb things, but kobe wanted to be a one man show early in his career. He didnt want the team to be better he wanted himself to be better.Give MJ shaq in his rookie year and he woulded complain.He barked at them when they are not doing there job.Kobe is just learning this concept and is also starting to hang out with his teamates and not be a loner.

[DuMa]

And, more famously, Kobe attempted to go one-on-one against Jordan in the '98 All-Star Game, waving off a screen from Karl Malone. "Take your pick-and-rolling butt out of here; I've got Jordan iso'd!" That one didn't go over so well with the Mailman. "When young guys tell me to get out of the way," Malone said at the time, "that's a game I don't need to be in."

tells me all i need to know about Kobe.

I could always respect Kobe's competitive spirit but he had no respect for any one.

[ForceOfNature]

You guys are just taking out the negative points of Kobe's character. Why don't you focus on the dogged determination, confidence, diligent and obsessive work ethic, and competitiveness of his personality? Without this, Kobe would not be the player he is. It takes hard work in order to be great.

[hotsizzle]

tells me all i need to know about Kobe.

I could always respect Kobe's competitive spirit but he had no respect for any one.

I've always found that to be exagerrated bull****. So what he waived off Malone's pick? give me a break

[DuMa]

I've always found that to be exagerrated bull****. So what he waived off Malone's pick? give me a break

its little incidents like that that causes the fans to hate kobe so much. if you couldnt respect the game's elite players back then as a young fella then what makes you think the young fellas of today which you're going to preach to, as a 'leader', are going to respect you???

[the even bigger black guy]

its little incidents like that that causes the fans to hate kobe so much. if you couldnt respect the game's elite players back then as a young fella then what makes you think the young fellas of today which you're going to preach to, as a 'leader', are going to respect you???

what has karl malone ever done to deserve any respect? **** that guy

[bladefd]

A man has both flaws and things you come to respect. In order to appreciate what Kobe does on the court and what kind of person he is, you have to understand both his flaws and his positives. Kobe strives to be the best ever but it takes hard work to be who he wants to be. The article basically shows he is willing to do anything to claim that title at the end of his career. Now whether he becomes that or not will be determined by how he does the rest of his career but he just wants you to know that he tried his heart out.
"Being the best that you can be is possible only if your desire to be a champion is greater than your fear of failure." Take it how you will but Kobe definitely has that desire and I think he has put enough work into it. Now he just has to execute it in the playoffs to prove it.

[hotsizzle]

its little incidents like that that causes the fans to hate kobe so much. if you couldnt respect the game's elite players back then as a young fella then what makes you think the young fellas of today which you're going to preach to, as a 'leader', are going to respect you???

Its basketball, because Malone whose an older veteran sets a pick for Kobe, he has to go through with it? How is that disrespect? What if he saw something he didn't like? When you're running up and down the floor, your instincts take over...you just play the game, not gonna stop and realize "Oh its Karl Malone setting a pick for me". Its not like he said something to Malone.

Malone is a ***** for complaining about it. Boohoo Kobe waived off his pick.

[VCMVP1551]

Malone is a ***** for complaining about it. Boohoo Kobe waived off his pick.

Karl Malone is a piece of sh*t in general. Great player but a pierce of sh*t.

[DuMa]

Its basketball, because Malone whose an older veteran sets a pick for Kobe, he has to go through with it? How is that disrespect? What if he saw something he didn't like? When you're running up and down the floor, your instincts take over...you just play the game, not gonna stop and realize "Oh its Karl Malone setting a pick for me". Its not like he said something to Malone.

Malone is a ***** for complaining about it. Boohoo Kobe waived off his pick.


its not Karl Malone. i actually dont give a **** about him. i never liked the guy. but if it was shaq or d-rob trying to set that pick, kobe would have just said the same thing since hes obviously so fixated on playing jordan 1v1.

Kobe has no regard for anything but his own. thats the way he'll always be perceived.

[dafunkphenom]

tells me all i need to know about Kobe.

I could always respect Kobe's competitive spirit but he had no respect for any one.
I'm a huge Jordan fan but I'll say this about that all star game. It like every other all star game is about entertainment. People want to see greats go one on one. They pulled Kobe down the stretch so he wouldn't show up Jordan otherwise he would have and should have been the MVP.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

:roll:
Kobe is a Maserati
Lebron is a Volvo

I agree there is a gap, but a Volvo? c'mon. Lebron is at least a Porshe.

[mlh1981]

He should grow his afro back.

[VCMVP1551]

He should grow his afro back.

Gilbert Arenas liked Kobe's afro.

http://www.nba.com/media/fros_gil_080310.jpg

[dhenk]

Victims of hype...

[Jailblazers7]

:roll:
Kobe is a Maserati
Lebron is a Volvo

I agree there is a gap, but a Volvo? c'mon. Lebron is at least a Porshe.

I saw that. :oldlol: A Porsche Cayenne would be an good comparison for Lebron.

[ZeN]

Nice Find, Loved the Read

[KOBE24isdabest]

great read!

[RedBlackAttack]

Just wow.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/chris_ballard/05/27/kobe0602/index.html

Please don't start a flame war here, no hater/groupie nonsense, whatever. Just read the piece. It's really something out of this world. Unbelievable stuff, definitely, I'd say. Greatness. Pulitzer. No doubt. One bit. About it.
Did anyone honestly think that this article was a great piece of literature? Even an above average personality profile?

:confusedshrug:

[Loki]

Did anyone honestly think that this article was a great piece of literature? Even an above average personality profile?

:confusedshrug:

It reads like a hagiography. :oldlol:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Did anyone honestly think that this article was a great piece of literature? Even an above average personality profile?

:confusedshrug:

Volvo
:roll:

[tikay00]

ahahah porsche cayane is actually a damn good example, maybe a really souped up range rover sport edition, or a X5 with NOS.

[RedBlackAttack]

Volvo
:roll:
Ah yes...

The 'unnamed scout'... Ever present in pieces that are trying to convey a point without the author actually interjecting his own opinion on the matter. I have a hard time believing there is any professional scout that believes what was printed and, if he/she does, I feel sorry for the team for which he/she is scouting.

But, beyond that ludicrous comparison, there is nothing especially well done about this article. It told me nothing that I hadn't known and the writing was choppy and didn't have a nice flow.

:confusedshrug:

I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion.

[JellyBean]

That was awesome!! I just read the book How to be like Mike, by Pat Williams...it is so close to being about Kobe. I don't care what anyone says, I love Kobe (and my dawg, KG). Those two make the NBA fun to watch. Thanks for the article....that was wicked!!!

[Scott Pippen]

i wish pippen was apreciate and loved like kobe is:(

[jjayfive]

omg..this kobe character is crazier than i thought....

[Ken_Masters]

He and Garnett are both head cases. But i guess, that's what makes them great.

[jmill]

lol there are plenty of people who wrote about mj being bad to his teammate.He wanted them to be better and he yelled at them when they do dumb things, but kobe wanted to be a one man show early in his career. He didnt want the team to be better he wanted himself to be better.Give MJ shaq in his rookie year and he woulded complain.He barked at them when they are not doing there job.Kobe is just learning this concept and is also starting to hang out with his teamates and not be a loner.

Fascinating that you know more about Kobe Bryant than his own coach.

I also like how when Michael Jordan calls Kwame a ****ing ***.got who has no heart it's okay but if Kobe were to criticize a teammate it's because he's selfish and a terrible person.

I love the logic there.

Jeff Van Gundy put it best for me

"When Kobe shoots everyone tells him to pass, when Kobe passes everyone tells him to shoot, it's too bad everyone can't just appreciate what a special player this guy is because he's amazing"

[jmill]

i wish pippen was apreciate and loved like kobe is:(

Pippen was awesome. MJ wins 0 titles if Pippen isn't on that team.

[Poseidon]

It sure didn't take long for the insecure Jordan groupie and the bitter LeBron apologist to make their appearance and spew some hate. :rolleyes:

[JustSaying]

^^ True dat!

[QuestFor17]

Damn, what a competitive dude...but to be great, you need to have a few screws loose for certain. I liked reading the part about him not letting people leave practice until he redeemed himself if they got him in practice. Can you imagine what he must've been feeling after Lebron outplayed him in LA this year and hit the game winner on him?? I can just picture him going home and sitting in a dark room and just staring into space for hours like a lunatic. The one thing I'll say in comparison of Kobe and MJ is that MJ was the better leader. Kobe is one to look out for his own best interests, whereas Jordan wanted the best interest of him and his team. I'm reading a Jordan book now that talks about a young Bulls team playing the Detroit Bad Boys in the playoffs and Pippen went to the hole and was hammered by Rodman/Laimbeer/Mahorn and company and went to the bench dazed with his head down. Jordan walked over to him, kneeled down in front of him and screamed somethign along the lines of "Don't ever let them do that to you! Don't ever let them get the best of you like that! Keep going at them harder and harder! We're going to get you the ball right now and you're going to take it right down their f*cking throats!!". I can't picture Kobe being that kind of teammate, I'd see him thinking Pippen is a p*ssy and demanding the ball for himself. Don't get me wrong, Kobe is great and has a killer instinct for the ages, but MJ had a perfect combination of toughness, the killer instinct, competitiveness, and leadership.

[Da_Realist]

...

My thoughts exactly.

By the way...what book are you reading?

[QuestFor17]

My thoughts exactly.

By the way...what book are you reading?

"How to Be Like Mike: Life Lessons about Basketball's Best"

It's a good read. The respect Jordan has from his peers is amazing.

[Da_Realist]

"How to Be Like Mike: Life Lessons about Basketball's Best"

It's a good read. The respect Jordan has from his peers is amazing.

Maybe I'll check it out. I thought I read them all (both positive and negative). :cheers:

[guy]

Pippen was awesome. MJ wins 0 titles if Pippen isn't on that team.

LOL. Yea if Jordan stayed on the Bulls, and the rest of the Bulls team is the exact same, just without Pippen, which is highly unlikely.

[No_Look604]

dope read, thanks for sharing.


I wasn't a huge fan in his younger days. I started really following his games the past 3-4 years(once the kings broke up).
I never believed he was "selfish" or a chucker. Come on now, the lakers starting 5, the past 3-4 years, was just WRONG.

Did anyone else find it hard to like Kobe as a rookie...just for the simple fact Eddie Jones & Van Exel were doing their thing? I hated Shaq back then urggggg

[juju151111]

Fascinating that you know more about Kobe Bryant than his own coach.

I also like how when Michael Jordan calls Kwame a ****ing ***.got who has no heart it's okay but if Kobe were to criticize a teammate it's because he's selfish and a terrible person.

I love the logic there.

Jeff Van Gundy put it best for me

"When Kobe shoots everyone tells him to pass, when Kobe passes everyone tells him to shoot, it's too bad everyone can't just appreciate what a special player this guy is because he's amazing"
:oldlol: :banghead: :roll: :lol. Kobe was a loner in the bstart of his career.Why did u think shaq said I don't hang out with this guy.He just started interacting with his teammates off the court a few years back.WTH are u talking about didn't u read the article Kobe was sending away screens and wanted to be a one man show.Like i said if Mj had shaq in his rookie season he wouldn't complain.Kobe wants to be the man while Mj wants to win.Kobe is learning it's not all about him all the time now.He figured it out.

[leijamoosa]

Great article imo. This is how i've seen kobe all the time and have so much respect for the guy. Now just Win the 'Chip and take home the Finals MVP and i will be so happy. It's just great to see greatness.

[Emile]

Pippen was awesome. MJ wins 0 titles if Pippen isn't on that team.

I'm not particularly sure about that. I mean, people just overlook how great that team was. They won 55 games and perhaps could've won it without Jordan. Is it a stretch to assume that if it were the other way around, Jordan playing and Pippen being sidelined, that they'd actually win some rings? And no, I don't deal in could-should-would's, I appreciate Pip but even as far as assumptions go, I don't consider this one all that unreasonable..

But with that said, I do agree Pippen is very overlooked, taken for granted and unappreciated. But so is Kobe as well. If you haven't noticed it, this article urges people in the end to start appreciating Kobe. In fact, there's this whole notion going on in press these days that we should start appreciating Kobe.

They both aren't appreciated as they should be for a couple of reasons but one, perhaps...probably the biggest, they have in common IMO: Michael Jordan.

[Da_Realist]

I'm not particularly sure about that. I mean, people just overlook how great that team was. They won 55 games and perhaps could've won it without Jordan. Is it a stretch to assume that if it were the other way around, Jordan playing and Pippen being sidelined, that they'd actually win some rings? And no, I don't deal in could-should-would's, I appreciate Pip but even as far as assumptions go, I don't consider this one all that unreasonable..

But with that said, I do agree Pippen is very overlooked, taken for granted and unappreciated. But so is Kobe as well. If you haven't noticed it, this article urges people in the end to start appreciating Kobe. In fact, there's this whole notion going on in press these days that we should start appreciating Kobe.

They both aren't appreciated as they should be for a couple of reasons but one, perhaps...probably the biggest, they have in common IMO: Michael Jordan.

I don't think Michael Jordan has ever posted in a message board saying anything against Kobe Bryant. Or Scottie Pippen. Not his fault. Misplaced frustration.

[LakersLaLaLand]

Just wow.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/chris_ballard/05/27/kobe0602/index.html



STRONG.
O
L
I
D

24K

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

we knew about kobe's social issue since colorado.

it's this "refuse to be rejected" attitude that made him go beyond boundaries and rape a poor girl.

sometimes, kobe just has to accept that NO means NO and learn to back off to people who reject his needs.

that was your 2,000th and, hopefully, last post.

[DCL]

hmmm. you have over 5400 posts.

but, uh... who the fu.k are you again????

you must be one of those newbie posters who keeps on posting but nobody gives a sh!t about. :oldlol:

[LakersLaLaLand]

we knew about kobe's social issue since colorado.

it's this "refuse to be rejected" attitude that made him go beyond boundaries and rape a poor girl.

sometimes, kobe just has to accept that NO means NO and learn to back off to people who reject his needs.

How about when Yes turns into No...because you are trying to cash in.

The girl was a slut and promiscuous . Forensics found semen not belonging to Kobe on her panties.

[jmill]

:oldlol: :banghead: :roll: :lol. Kobe was a loner in the bstart of his career.Why did u think shaq said I don't hang out with this guy.He just started interacting with his teammates off the court a few years back.WTH are u talking about didn't u read the article Kobe was sending away screens and wanted to be a one man show.Like i said if Mj had shaq in his rookie season he wouldn't complain.Kobe wants to be the man while Mj wants to win.Kobe is learning it's not all about him all the time now.He figured it out.

You do realize Shaq is notorious for throwing teams under the bus as soon as he leaves right?

Shaq leaves Orlando, bashes teammates

Shaq leaves LA, bashes teammates, fans and coach

Shaq leaves Miami, bashes team

Noticing a trend here yet? Pat Riley called him out bigtime for it this year too, about how he can't understand why Shaq would throw them under the bus like that after they gave him everything he wanted. He wanted a big contract, to come to Miami? Fine, they gave him that. The team starts to suck in part because Shaq sucks now so he wants a trade to a contender? Fine, they gave him that too.Then Shaq has to go and act like a child like he loves to do.

You want to hate on Kobe, fine hate all you want. But anyone who's really followed the Lakers during the Shaq years will tell you that Shaq has one of the biggest ego's this sport has ever seen and was notorious for being selfish.


Kobe Bryant didn't break up the Lakers. THEY broke up the Lakers together.

And I put more blame on Shaq. Why?

Because

- Shaq was the so called leader of that team as he liked to say.
- Shaq came into practice 50 lbs overweight after the worst year of his career demanding to Jerry Buss " Pay me my ****ing money *****", whining like a child. And when I say money I mean 30 mil a year. lol.

If he wants to call himself the leader of that team, fine, but act like it, don't come into camp 50 lbs overweight after the worst year of your career whining like a little girl for more money. Absolutely pathetic.

What pisses me off isn't that I think Kobe was perfect, he's done some stupid things, it's that he gets all the blame when Shaq was just as fault if not more. Just because Shaq cultivated a good public image because he's charming and knows how to talk to the media doesn't make him any less of a douche. God he's a douche.

[jmill]

WTH are u talking about didn't u read the article Kobe was sending away screens and wanted to be a one man showKobe wants to be the man while Mj wants to win

Man you really need to stop doing this, it's just so awful.

Here, watch, I can do the same thing.

Michael Jordan was an awful teammate because he once called Kwame brown a fuking faqqot in practice and completely humilated hiim in front of everyone, telling him he had no heart.

Clearly that one incident of MJ berating his teammate proves that MJ was an awful teammate.

MY REASONING SKILLZ ARE DA ROXORZ111

And btw, you're talking about waving off a screen in an ALL STAR GAME. That is amazing. I'm trying to figure out if you're leveling me or not.

I mean it's an all star game. wtf. Tracy Mcgrady once took the ball and threw it off the backboard too himself and dunked it. You know why. Because it's a damn all star game where people just try to have fun out there. Kobe had MJ iso'd and wanted to go 1 on 1. OH NO, A 19 YEAR OLD KID TRYING TO HAVE SOME FUN ALL STAR WEEKEND. lol @ tuning that into more than it is.

Here, her'es Vince doing the same dunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds-m6MS0azI&feature=related)

Seriously, an allstar game. I'm still in awe.

[LakersLaLaLand]

You do realize Shaq is notorious for throwing teams under the bus as soon as he leaves right?

Shaq leaves Orlando, bashes teammates

Shaq leaves LA, bashes teammates, fans and coach

Shaq leaves Miami, bashes team

Noticing a trend here yet? Pat Riley called him out bigtime for it this year too, about how he can't understand why Shaq would throw them under the bus like that after they gave him everything he wanted. He wanted a big contract, to come to Miami? Fine, they gave him that. The team starts to suck in part because Shaq sucks now so he wants a trade to a contender? Fine, they gave him that too.Then Shaq has to go and act like a child like he loves to do.

You want to hate on Kobe, fine hate all you want. But anyone who's really followed the Lakers during the Shaq years will tell you that Shaq has one of the biggest ego's this sport has ever seen and was notorious for being selfish.


Kobe Bryant didn't break up the Lakers. THEY broke up the Lakers together.

And I put more blame on Shaq. Why? Im with you here 100%

Because

- Shaq was the so called leader of that team as he liked to say.
- Shaq came into practice 50 lbs overweight after the worst year of his career demanding to Jerry Buss " Pay me my ****ing money *****", whining like a child. And when I say money I mean 30 mil a year. lol.

If he wants to call himself the leader of that team, fine, but act like it, don't come into camp 50 lbs overweight after the worst year of your career whining like a little girl for more money. Absolutely pathetic.

What pisses me off isn't that I think Kobe was perfect, he's done some stupid things, it's that he gets all the blame when Shaq was just as fault if not more. Just because Shaq cultivated a good public image because he's charming and knows how to talk to the media doesn't make him any less of a douche. God he's a douche.

Amen.

Also for some perspective.

Magic arrived in LA and cruised on the Good Ship Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Kareem earned his strips and deserved it.

Kareem willingly passed his Captains hat to Magic. EJ deserved it.

Kobe followed Shaqs lead. Remember how kobe kissed the championship trophy after shaq kissed the mvp trophy. Perfect example.

Kobe wanted some or more respect. Shaq refuses to drop props, demands $$$ and a trade.

Shaq arrives to Miami, takes less $$$, publiclly gives Wade the keys to the house and is still fat. I will always love and hate you daddy. One of two men i can call daddy.

[DirkLegend41]

lol there are plenty of people who wrote about mj being bad to his teammate.He wanted them to be better and he yelled at them when they do dumb things, but kobe wanted to be a one man show early in his career. He didnt want the team to be better he wanted himself to be better.Give MJ shaq in his rookie year and he woulded complain.He barked at them when they are not doing there job.Kobe is just learning this concept and is also starting to hang out with his teamates and not be a loner.

I don't know about that but I see that in LeBron. With the things he says like "I" instead of "We". Jordan was also a loner. He had well known beefs with Bill Cartwright and Will Perdue. I'm sure Steve Kerr, Scott Burrell and Kwame Brown. hates Jordan's guts. Most of Jordan's Bulls and Wizards teammates hated Jordan.

[DirkLegend41]

:oldlol: :banghead: :roll: :lol. Kobe was a loner in the bstart of his career.Why did u think shaq said I don't hang out with this guy.He just started interacting with his teammates off the court a few years back.WTH are u talking about didn't u read the article Kobe was sending away screens and wanted to be a one man show.Like i said if Mj had shaq in his rookie season he wouldn't complain.Kobe wants to be the man while Mj wants to win.Kobe is learning it's not all about him all the time now.He figured it out.
Shaq never hung out with Penny Hardaway neither.

[Sneak]

All other players aside,

This article didn't make me "understand" or "appreciate" Kobe any more. I still think he's an arrogant arse.

Great player, but an arrogant arse.

[Da_Realist]

Most of Jordan's Bulls and Wizards teammates hated Jordan.

Wizards teammates, maybe.

Bulls teammates -- do you have any proof?

[INDI]

Im one of the biggest kobe fans here, and what I am about to say i know resonates deep down inside every kobe fan (whether they admit it or not)

kobe's main priority has always been to establish himself as the best player that ever lived. This is his number 1 goal nothing more nothing less. Don't ask questions like "which would kobe rather have 10 championships or to be known as the best ever?", a kobe fan is going to say "of course the 10 championships!!!", but deep in our hearts we do know without a doubt that he would chose to be known as the best.

It is very understandable why people don't like him but if you just took him for what he is, you would recognize that you are watching possibly the only man on earth that would die for this game (probably literally). Is that not something amazing? others will retire and become a coach or chill with the fam, this is not the same case with kobe. He literally didnt find something that he was good at and did it, he found his life calling.

He is to basketball what leonardo davinci was to art, harriet tubman was to the underground railroad, dizzy gillespie to the sax, and so on. Lebron is correct "you are a witness" and i don't believe he is talking about someone who's name ends with james either.

kobe is the type of talent that when he is dead and gone people would study him in college courses. A champion isnt a champion in the ring, that is only where he is recognized. Kobe has been a champ way before he held the trophy.

Love him or leave him alone.

[Sneak]

He is to basketball what leonardo davinci was to art, harriet tubman was to the underground railroad, dizzy gillespie to the sax, and so on. Lebron is correct "you are a witness" and i don't believe he is talking about someone who's name ends with james either.

kobe is the type of talent that when he is dead and gone people would study him in college courses. A champion isnt a champion in the ring, that is only where he is recognized. Kobe has been a champ way before he held the trophy.

Love him or leave him alone.
Please don't insult Leonardo da Vinci.

The only college class Kobe should be studied in is a Psychology one.

I recognise that Kobe has exceptional talent, but seriously, people hold him up on such a pedestal like he is the messiah of basketball and that is probably the main reason so many people hate him. It is the people who gloss over Kobe's flaws continuously and try to make him what he wants to be (the greatest of all time) that create the majority of the hate.

Love him or leave him alone?

I'll remember that next time Kobe fans are bashing Jordan/Lebron/Whoever in their ceaseless quest to make Kobe the greatest of this era and of all time.

[GreatLakes]

Wizards teammates, maybe.

Bulls teammates -- do you have any proof?

Have you read the Jordan Rules? Numerous instances where Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright get into verbal fights with Jordan. Cartwright even threatens to break Jordan's legs so that he could never play again. Hate is such a strong word, I know the bulls respected Jordan, but alot of them definitely didn't like him.

[GreatLakes]

Im one of the biggest kobe fans here, and what I am about to say i know resonates deep down inside every kobe fan (whether they admit it or not)

kobe's main priority has always been to establish himself as the best player that ever lived. This is his number 1 goal nothing more nothing less. Don't ask questions like "which would kobe rather have 10 championships or to be known as the best ever?", a kobe fan is going to say "of course the 10 championships!!!", but deep in our hearts we do know without a doubt that he would chose to be known as the best.

I agree with you that Kobe wants to be the best ever. But Kobe being such a student of the game I am pretty sure knows that winning is what makes other people call you the best. I am sure he knows that Jordan was not considered the best until he started winning championships. Hell even Russell now is still considered the best by many because of his 9 rings. I am sure Kobe remembers as many of us do, how MJ emphatically put up his 6 fingers after winning his sixth championship. Anybody who has read anything on Jordan knows that it meant everything to him to beat Magic's 5 rings. I think Kobe would feel the same way I don't think Kobe would ever sacrifice wins, especially championships, for putting up big numbers. The problem with Kobe is that he thought if he put up big numbers that was the best way to win. Which as we all know isn't the case. He just wants to be the man on championship teams.

[guy]

Im one of the biggest kobe fans here, and what I am about to say i know resonates deep down inside every kobe fan (whether they admit it or not)

kobe's main priority has always been to establish himself as the best player that ever lived. This is his number 1 goal nothing more nothing less. Don't ask questions like "which would kobe rather have 10 championships or to be known as the best ever?", a kobe fan is going to say "of course the 10 championships!!!", but deep in our hearts we do know without a doubt that he would chose to be known as the best.

It is very understandable why people don't like him but if you just took him for what he is, you would recognize that you are watching possibly the only man on earth that would die for this game (probably literally). Is that not something amazing? others will retire and become a coach or chill with the fam, this is not the same case with kobe. He literally didnt find something that he was good at and did it, he found his life calling.

He is to basketball what leonardo davinci was to art, harriet tubman was to the underground railroad, dizzy gillespie to the sax, and so on. Lebron is correct "you are a witness" and i don't believe he is talking about someone who's name ends with james either.

kobe is the type of talent that when he is dead and gone people would study him in college courses. A champion isnt a champion in the ring, that is only where he is recognized. Kobe has been a champ way before he held the trophy.

Love him or leave him alone.

I agree about the first part. Kobe's main priority is to be the best ever, and there really is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The second part of your post was crazy.

[Da_Realist]

Have you read the Jordan Rules? Numerous instances where Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright get into verbal fights with Jordan. Cartwright even threatens to break Jordan's legs so that he could never play again. Hate is such a strong word, I know the bulls respected Jordan, but alot of them definitely didn't like him.

I read it. I just thought the idea that most of the Bulls "hated his guts" went too far. In fact, I don't believe most of the Bulls disliked him. My wife tells me she'd break my legs almost weekly...doesn't mean she hates my guts. Besides there are plenty of comments/quotes since The Jordan Rules were written that tell a different story.

Any sources since The Jordan Rules was written (1992)? Otherwise, it sounds like exaggeration to prove a point.

[ForceOfNature]

:oldlol: :banghead: :roll: :lol. Kobe was a loner in the bstart of his career.Why did u think shaq said I don't hang out with this guy.He just started interacting with his teammates off the court a few years back.WTH are u talking about didn't u read the article Kobe was sending away screens and wanted to be a one man show.Like i said if Mj had shaq in his rookie season he wouldn't complain.Kobe wants to be the man while Mj wants to win.Kobe is learning it's not all about him all the time now.He figured it out.

Michael Jordan, the greatest ever, was the one who said you can't spell Win without an "I".


Im one of the biggest kobe fans here, and what I am about to say i know resonates deep down inside every kobe fan (whether they admit it or not)

kobe's main priority has always been to establish himself as the best player that ever lived. This is his number 1 goal nothing more nothing less. Don't ask questions like "which would kobe rather have 10 championships or to be known as the best ever?", a kobe fan is going to say "of course the 10 championships!!!", but deep in our hearts we do know without a doubt that he would chose to be known as the best.

It is very understandable why people don't like him but if you just took him for what he is, you would recognize that you are watching possibly the only man on earth that would die for this game (probably literally). Is that not something amazing? others will retire and become a coach or chill with the fam, this is not the same case with kobe. He literally didnt find something that he was good at and did it, he found his life calling.

He is to basketball what leonardo davinci was to art, harriet tubman was to the underground railroad, dizzy gillespie to the sax, and so on. Lebron is correct "you are a witness" and i don't believe he is talking about someone who's name ends with james either.

kobe is the type of talent that when he is dead and gone people would study him in college courses. A champion isnt a champion in the ring, that is only where he is recognized. Kobe has been a champ way before he held the trophy.

Love him or leave him alone.

I actually agree with pretty much all of this.


we knew about kobe's social issue since colorado.

it's this "refuse to be rejected" attitude that made him go beyond boundaries and rape a poor girl.

sometimes, kobe just has to accept that NO means NO and learn to back off to people who reject his needs.

There's absolutely no proof to show that he raped her, it was likely consensual because she didn't want to testify.

[Da_Realist]

He is to basketball what leonardo davinci was to art, harriet tubman was to the underground railroad, dizzy gillespie to the sax, and so on. Lebron is correct "you are a witness" and i don't believe he is talking about someone who's name ends with james either...

kobe is the type of talent that when he is dead and gone people would study him in college courses. A champion isnt a champion in the ring, that is only where he is recognized. Kobe has been a champ way before he held the trophy.

Love him or leave him alone.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[GreatLakes]

I read it. I just thought the idea that most of the Bulls "hated his guts" went too far. In fact, I don't believe most of the Bulls disliked him. My wife tells me she'd break my legs almost weekly...doesn't mean she hates my guts. Besides there are plenty of comments/quotes since The Jordan Rules were written that tell a different story.

Any sources since The Jordan Rules was written (1992)? Otherwise, it sounds like exaggeration to prove a point.

No offense but the wife example was pretty weak. I don't know if the majority of the bulls didn't like him but I can name at least 4... Cartwright, Grant, Stacy King, Will Perdue.

Anyways the point is that Jordan wasn't the most beloved player on his team unlike Magic Johnson about whom I have never heard a disparaging comment from any teammates. Nothing wrong with not being the most beloved. But it becomes nauseating when people use that against Kobe Bryant but not against Michael Jordan. It's simply just hating on the guy.

[Da_Realist]

No offense but the wife example was pretty weak. I don't know if the majority of the bulls didn't like him but I can name at least 4... Cartwright, Grant, Stacy King, Will Perdue.

Anyways the point is that Jordan wasn't the most beloved player on his team unlike Magic Johnson about whom I have never heard a disparaging comment from any teammates. Nothing wrong with not being the most beloved. But it becomes nauseating when people use that against Kobe Bryant but not against Michael Jordan. It's simply just hating on the guy.

I'm not arguing either way. I'm just asking for proof that his teammates didn't like him. Why do you say Cartwright, Grant, King and Perdue didn't like him?

[Emile]

I'm not arguing either way. I'm just asking for proof that his teammates didn't like him. Why do you say Cartwright, Grant, King and Perdue didn't like him?

Unfortunately I'm a victim of listening to Toni Kukoc talk a lot and being dumber for it but he actually said that considering how great Jordan was, he was very down to earth. For someone that popular and big, he says Jordan was very friendly, personable and likeable.
He remembers meeting him one day at around 3 pm already getting ready for the game, shooting around and his father being with him.
Long story short, he said the only guy who really didn't seem to get along with Jordan at first was Horace Grant. But later on, they actually became close, as Jordan was changing his style and was getting more team oriented. Those are the things Horace would hold against him at first. Everyone else really liked Jordan. According to Toni, that team had the strongest bond he's ever seen because they played harder in practices than most teams play in games.

But Toni Kukoc is an idiot so take it with a grain of salt. Wonder how his Kobe analysis is working so far. Deuchebag.

[GreatLakes]

I'm not arguing either way. I'm just asking for proof that his teammates didn't like him. Why do you say Cartwright, Grant, King and Perdue didn't like him?

Cartwright and Grant are quoted/referenced in the Jordan Rules with alot of negative comments/actions against Michael. King wanted to be traded because he thought MJ was taking any opportunity he had of becoming the star he thought he could be. As for Perdue, I doubt you could like anyone who calls you Will "Vanderbilt" everyday in practice.:oldlol:

As for the Kukoc comment. Didn't Kukoc come to the Bulls after Jordan's 1st retirement? And when Jordan came back, Horace Grant was on Orlando. So he would never have gotten the chance to see Jordan and Grant interact. Am I mistaken?

[picc84]

I'm not arguing either way. I'm just asking for proof that his teammates didn't like him. Why do you say Cartwright, Grant, King and Perdue didn't like him?

Teammates threatening to break your legs is always a good indicator. :oldlol:

But I love Jordan. :D

[Emile]

As for the Kukoc comment. Didn't Kukoc come to the Bulls after Jordan's 1st retirement? And when Jordan came back, Horace Grant was on Orlando. So he would never have gotten the chance to see Jordan and Grant interact. Am I mistaken?

Dunno. But that's what he said. Maybe it was the word of mouth thing?

I don't necessarily see though how it's a bad thing if someone hated Jordan. People have some wrong illusionary ideas on how those guys are. They're not the smiley faces you see in commercials, not your best pals, not Mother Theresa's relatives. That's perhaps the image you"ll get of them but for people who that focused and determined, they're very prone to having detractors and haters. It's very natural. And not just in basketball.

So, I don't see how it's a bad thing if they're actually hated by people around them. It only means they're good.
But fans have this whole fraternity/brotherhood ideas in their mind. Yet it doesn't quite work that way. Those folks are millionaes, have their own lives, families, interests. NBA wants to create a good guy image for their best players but it doesn't really work like that. đ

What you know of MJ, Kobe, Bird...and others personally is their image.Image that's being sold to you. And you as a fan buy it. The real people behind the image are much different however.

[Loki]

unlike Magic Johnson about whom I have never heard a disparaging comment from any teammates.

I guess you never heard how Kareem was, shall we say, "less than fond" of him for many years.

[eliteballer]

If "many years" means 1 or 2:rolleyes:

[Da_Realist]

Cartwright and Grant are quoted/referenced in the Jordan Rules with alot of negative comments/actions against Michael. King wanted to be traded because he thought MJ was taking any opportunity he had of becoming the star he thought he could be. As for Perdue, I doubt you could like anyone who calls you Will "Vanderbilt" everyday in practice.:oldlol:

As for the Kukoc comment. Didn't Kukoc come to the Bulls after Jordan's 1st retirement? And when Jordan came back, Horace Grant was on Orlando. So he would never have gotten the chance to see Jordan and Grant interact. Am I mistaken?

I see what you're saying, but everything you referenced is from a book written back in 92. I was in high school back then. I remember most of what was written, but what has happened since then? Cartwright was with the Bulls organization for many years after The Jordan Rules. In fact none of these guys left the team because of MJ. If they were so miserable, why didn't they leave?

In fact, if MJ was such a bad guy, why didn't he tell the Bulls to "ship their a$$es out of there"? He certainly had enough clout to do it.

[Da_Realist]

I guess you never heard how Kareem was, shall we say, "less than fond" of him for many years.

I read somewhere there was some tension with Norm Nixon earlier in his career, too. In fact, I read that a lot of guys on the team bonded against him one year when he had some beef with Paul Westhead. I don't remember where I read it so take it with a grain of salt.

[ukplayer4]

ok i hope i have just imagined this but...

someone just compared kobe to leanardo de vinci and someone else agreed



exactly how stupid, uncultured and uneducated are you people?

[Emile]

ok i hope i have just imagined this but...

someone just compared kobe to leanardo de vinci and someone else agreed



exactly how stupid, uncultured and uneducated are you people?

Comparing Kobe to that guy who was named after a Ninja Turtle really isn't a big deal because it holds water.
Really, what INDI said is that Kobe to his sport is what Da Vinci is to art. I don't think that's an unreasonable statement. Kobe certainly is a basketball artist and one of the most skilled player of all time. Is it unreasonable to make the comparison? Within proper context, not at all IMO.

[GreatLakes]

I see what you're saying, but everything you referenced is from a book written back in 92. I was in high school back then. I remember most of what was written, but what has happened since then? Cartwright was with the Bulls organization for many years after The Jordan Rules. In fact none of these guys left the team because of MJ. If they were so miserable, why didn't they leave?

In fact, if MJ was such a bad guy, why didn't he tell the Bulls to "ship their a$$es out of there"? He certainly had enough clout to do it.

I don't get what you're saying? So if the book was written in 1992 it doesn't make it true? He actually asked for a bunch of trades but Jerry Krause wouldn't listen to him. Jordan had actually very little "clout" with Krause.

If I am not mistaken Carwright left the Bulls organization for a while he came back when Jordan was a wizard.

[ukplayer4]

NO, JUST NO!


da vinci is the most talented human being who has ever lived, the diversity of his talents are practically unfathomable, in art alone he is considered arguably the greatest painter who has ever lived.

and you think its ok to compare him to kobe bryant, who isnt even considered as being one of the 10 greatest basketball players ever by any stretch of the imagination(except ofcourse for some of the mentally ill residents of this board and his dellusioned fan base)


seriously now, i know you are american but that still isnt excuse enough to not know about da vinci. i understand that you have some kind of libarys or book resources over there?

[Emile]

NO, JUST NO!


da vinci is the most talented human being who has ever lived, the diversity of his talents are practically unfathomable, in art alone he is considered arguably the greatest painter who has ever lived.

and you think its ok to compare him to kobe bryant, who isnt even considered as being one of the 10 greatest basketball players ever by any stretch of the imagination(except ofcourse for some of the mentally ill residents of this board and his dellusioned fan base)


seriously now, i know you are american but that still isnt excuse enough to not know about da vinci. i understand that you have some kind of libarys or book resources over there?

I'm not. See what you just did there? You stereotyped. A big no no. So now, what is your excuse for that? All the intelligence and book knowledge in the world can't compensate for ignorance, sorry. I'm not calling you ignorant in general, perhaps it only was a joke or a rib but a wrong thing to do either way.

I know plenty about DaVinci, trust me. But the only way you really can take a stand against the comparison is if you truly split hairs, appreciate one and detest another which all seem to be true in this case.

Kobe is a basketball player, we get that. His impact on the world will never match that of DaVinci's. No basketball players ever will. But it was a proper context that was used. The guy said Kobe to basketball is what DaVinci is to art, key word there...art alone. And then he went on to say that the way Kobe plays the game is artistic and that he's a player who"ll be observed and studied many years to come. His personal belief. Not at all unreasonable to me. After all, Kobe is only 29 years old. One of the msot skilled players of all time.
You mention he's not top 10. YET. Ok. Shaq is for example. But Shaq's game wasn't artistic. Kobe's is. That's the point the guy tried to put across.
DaVinci being one of the best painters, Kobe being one of the best artists of the game. He's one of the few players in history to have virtually no flaws and play the game like a virtuoso. Relax a bit, it"ll come together and make sense. Just beware of the context.

[Da_Realist]

I don't get what you're saying? So if the book was written in 1992 it doesn't make it true? He actually asked for a bunch of trades but Jerry Krause wouldn't listen to him. Jordan had actually very little "clout" with Krause.

If I am not mistaken Carwright left the Bulls organization for a while he came back when Jordan was a wizard.

Didn't say it wasn't true, but you're basing your whole argument on one book...a book that was written 16 years ago. If his teammates hated his guts we would have more proof than one book. And there are way more books written since then that tell a different story.

And about Cartwright...



Prior to being named head coach of the Bulls, Cartwright spent six seasons as an assistant coach with Chicago following his hiring on September 3, 1996. As an assistant under Phil Jackson (1996-98), Cartwright helped the Bulls to the 1997 and 1998 NBA World Championships.

[GreatLakes]

Didn't say it wasn't true, but you're basing your whole argument on one book...a book that was written 16 years ago. If his teammates hated his guts we would have more proof than one book. And there are way more books written since then that tell a different story.

And about Cartwright...

Well there is a book called When nothing else matters that details Jordan ripping his teammates as a wizard. But not really anything from his teammates about him. But there had to be hard feelings there.

I guess I was mistaken with the Cartwright leaving the bulls franchise

[ukplayer4]

I'm not. See what you just did there? You stereotyped. A big no no. So now, what is your excuse for that? All the intelligence and book knowledge in the world can't compensate for ignorance, sorry. I'm not calling you ignorant in general, perhaps it only was a joke or a rib but a wrong thing to do either way.

I know plenty about DaVinci, trust me. But the only way you really can take a stand against the comparison is if you truly split hairs, appreciate one and detest another which all seem to be true in this case.

Kobe is a basketball player, we get that. His impact on the world will never match that of DaVinci's. No basketball players ever will. But it was a proper context that was used. The guy said Kobe to basketball is what DaVinci is to art, key word there...art alone. And then he went on to say that the way Kobe plays the game is artistic and that he's a player who"ll be observed and studied many years to come. His personal belief. Not at all unreasonable to me. After all, Kobe is only 29 years old. One of the msot skilled players of all time.
You mention he's not top 10. YET. Ok. Shaq is for example. But Shaq's game wasn't artistic. Kobe's is. That's the point the guy tried to put across.
DaVinci being one of the best painters, Kobe being one of the best artists of the game. He's one of the few players in history to have virtually no flaws and play the game like a virtuoso. Relax a bit, it"ll come together and make sense. Just beware of the context.



the fact that you arnt american makes no difference, i dont require any excuse for me stereotyping, it makes no difference to the actual point, your just deviating to try and build an argument that looks like it holds more weight by picking up on that,comparing kobe to da vinci is a rediculous comparison in whatever context. its an over the top ludicrus statement.

kobe has no flaws ay?


have you been drinking heavily this evening emile, seriously just stop.

[Da_Realist]

From How to be like Mike: Life Lessons about Basketball's Best by Pat Williams
Published in 2001

Page 105:

Stacey King, one of Michael's teammates in Chicago, offers a revealing insight: "MJ's special strength was his ability to play through pain. He just blocked out the pain of a sprained ankle or foot injury and wouldn't miss a game. Most guys would be out for two weeks, but not MJ. His focus and mental toughness were awesome. (Allen Iverson shows glimpses of that now, but he's about the only one like Mike that way.) The result was that MJ forced his teammates to play up to his level because he came to every practice and game ready to go all out. People see the glitz and glamour of MJ's life, but they didn't see the hard work, preparation and pain he went through."

Doesn't sound like he hated MJ's guts to me.

Page 49:

"Michael Jordan's energy supply is what separates him from other people," says Bulls assistant coach Bill Cartwright. "Nobody in the NBA has as much energy. I believe that enthusiasm finds the opportunities and energy makes the most of them."

If I hate someone's guts, I wouldn't want to be quoted in a book glorifying him.

[Da_Realist]

Well there is a book called When nothing else matters that details Jordan ripping his teammates as a wizard. But not really anything from his teammates about him. But there had to be hard feelings there.

I guess I was mistaken with the Cartwright leaving the bulls franchise

I live just outside of Washington. I know there were some things going on here. I just doubted the Bulls hated him.

[GreatLakes]

I live just outside of Washington. I know there were some things going on here. I just doubted the Bulls hated him.

Well there is the one book that I have repeatedly listed. And now this book as well. And of course not every book is going to include negative things. Alot of books are "kiss ass" books because thats what alot of people want to read. Me included sometimes. And I haven't read every Jordan book out there but if 2 books by different authors have similar examples, it would stand to believe that there is some truth to it.

[Da_Realist]

Well there is the one book that I have repeatedly listed. And now this book as well. And of course not every book is going to include negative things. Alot of books are "kiss ass" books because thats what alot of people want to read. Me included sometimes. And I haven't read every Jordan book out there but if 2 books by different authors have similar examples, it would stand to believe that there is some truth to it.

There may be some truth, but that doesn't mean his teammates in Chicago hated him. Arguments, disagreements, fights...those things happen when you spend so much time with a group of guys traveling all over the country for 9, 10 months a year in a 13-15 year career. Everyone knows Horace Grant was the guy supplying most of the juicy bits in The Jordan Rules, but MJ still played with him and won another title. In fact, I've never heard MJ say anything about Horace Grant publicly. So if they did have beef, at least they didn't let it get in the way of winning.

[Sneak]

I'm not. See what you just did there? You stereotyped. A big no no. So now, what is your excuse for that? All the intelligence and book knowledge in the world can't compensate for ignorance, sorry. I'm not calling you ignorant in general, perhaps it only was a joke or a rib but a wrong thing to do either way.

I know plenty about DaVinci, trust me. But the only way you really can take a stand against the comparison is if you truly split hairs, appreciate one and detest another which all seem to be true in this case.

Kobe is a basketball player, we get that. His impact on the world will never match that of DaVinci's. No basketball players ever will. But it was a proper context that was used. The guy said Kobe to basketball is what DaVinci is to art, key word there...art alone. And then he went on to say that the way Kobe plays the game is artistic and that he's a player who"ll be observed and studied many years to come. His personal belief. Not at all unreasonable to me. After all, Kobe is only 29 years old. One of the msot skilled players of all time.
You mention he's not top 10. YET. Ok. Shaq is for example. But Shaq's game wasn't artistic. Kobe's is. That's the point the guy tried to put across.
DaVinci being one of the best painters, Kobe being one of the best artists of the game. He's one of the few players in history to have virtually no flaws and play the game like a virtuoso. Relax a bit, it"ll come together and make sense. Just beware of the context.

Even if you narrow Da Vinci down to just art Kobe doesn't touch him. As someone who's qualifications are in the art field I find it pretty insulting to compare Kobe to Da Vinci.

As I have already stated, I am not a fan of Kobe the person or really the player, but I do appreciate the talent level he brings and the fact that this season he has actually put it together in a way that is beneficial to the teams success.

The thing is, as has already been stated, Da Vinci is widely regarded as being probably the greatest painter of ALL time despite their actually only being about 15 of his paintings in existence. People queue just to get a glimpse of the Mona Lisa from behind the 8 sheets of bullet proof glass that protect it.

His painting of the last supper has influenced peoples religious beliefs to the extent that one of the most popular books of the recent era (the Da Vinci code) was heavily inspired by that one painting.

Some quotes about Da Vinci:


In the normal course of events many men and women are born with remarkable talents; but occasionally, in a way that transcends nature, a single person is marvellously endowed by Heaven with beauty, grace and talent in such abundance that he leaves other men far behind, all his actions seem inspired and indeed everything he does clearly comes from God rather than from human skill. Everyone acknowledged that this was true of Leonardo da Vinci, an artist of outstanding physical beauty, who displayed infinite grace in everything that he did and who cultivated his genius so brilliantly that all problems he studied he solved with ease."


Such was the dawn of modern art, when Leonardo da Vinci broke forth with a splendour that distanced former excellence: made up of all the elements that constitute the essence of genius ..."


He towered above all other artists through the strength and the nobility of his talents


There may not be in the world an example of another genius so universal, so incapable of fulfilment, so full of yearning for the infinite, so naturally refined, so far ahead of his own century and the following centuries.


Leonardo is the one artist of whom it may be said with perfect literalness: Nothing that he touched but turned into a thing of eternal beauty. Whether it be the cross section of a skull, the structure of a weed, or a study of muscles, he, with his feeling for line and for light and shade, forever transmuted it into life-communicating values.

Do people honestly think Kobe with be garnering similar praise at the end of his career.

Da Vinci to Art >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe to Basketball.

Fact.

[INDI]

agree with you that Kobe wants to be the best ever. But Kobe being such a student of the game I am pretty sure knows that winning is what makes other people call you the best. I am sure he knows that Jordan was not considered the best until he started winning championships. Hell even Russell now is still considered the best by many because of his 9 rings. I am sure Kobe remembers as many of us do, how MJ emphatically put up his 6 fingers after winning his sixth championship. Anybody who has read anything on Jordan knows that it meant everything to him to beat Magic's 5 rings. I think Kobe would feel the same way I don't think Kobe would ever sacrifice wins, especially championships, for putting up big numbers. The problem with Kobe is that he thought if he put up big numbers that was the best way to win. Which as we all know isn't the case. He just wants to be the man on championship teams.
--------------------------------------------------------------

I agree fully with your post I just didn't add it in my original one. As far as everyone criticizing my davinci statement I would like to say that i retract nothing. No i am not here to fan the flame but neither will I be silent, I am very passionate about learning about people that have accomplished great things in the world. No i don't no in depth about any particular, but i study a massive amount of people that the majority of people today probably have never even heard of.

It is a fact that people who have accomplished great feats in this world have always been loved by many and hated by even more (no gray lines with them). Jesus, william wilberforce, gandhi, martin luther, your precious davinci EVERYONE there is no exception to the rule, and it just doesn't stop for people who have led revolutions the same goes for areas like planting, playwriting, swimming, inventions etc... IT IS NOT WHAT THEY DID THAT GROUPS THEM TOGETHER, IT IS THEIR GENIUS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE AREAS. Like it or not kobe fits the bill, he is cut from the same cloth. I was about to really dive in on the topic, but I really don't feel like it, your gonna think what your gonna think.

[QuestFor17]

Kobe is great, but he is no Michael Jordan. I'm not a Bulls fan, or a huge Jordan fan, but the guy was and is the greatest. In comparison to Kobe, there are 2 ways to look at it. Jordan was greater both physically and mentally, and both are very simple examine. Physically, I think it's Jordan's size and strength (2 underrated qualities he had) that put him over the top in comparison to Kobe. Of course there is amazing talent, ability, athleticism, fundamentals of the game, intelligence, etc...but Kobe's got those too, as do lots of others, but Jordan's size and strength at the 2-guard coupled with his work ethic, "eye of the tiger" mentality, and ability made him completely unstoppable. Mentally, the man flat out refused to lose. Remember last year (I think it was last year) when the Lakers were losing in game 7 to the Suns and Kobe pretty much threw in the towel in the 4th and didn't shoot anymore? MJ would NEVER do that. As it's been stated earlier, Kobe's main objective is himself...MJ's main objective was winning. When you're doing everything in your power to win as opposed to have an individual great game, it brings out more in a player. Jordan was the perfect combination of the mental and physical makeup it takes to be a GREAT basketball player. Don't get me wrong, Kobe is a rare talent and an amazing basketball player, but he's simply not MJ. He shouldn't be offended by the fact that he's not as good as MJ, as Kobe fans shouldn't either, because nobody has ever been as good.

[Da_Realist]

Kobe is a rare talent and an amazing basketball player, but he's simply not MJ. He shouldn't be offended by the fact that he's not as good as MJ, as Kobe fans shouldn't either, because nobody has ever been as good.

My thoughts exactly. :applause:

[Da_Realist]

Cartwright was with the Bulls organization for many years after The Jordan Rules. In fact none of these guys left the team because of MJ. If they were so miserable, why didn't they leave?

How to be like Mike
by Pat Williams
Page 211-212

In Chicago, we knew what we had to do to win, and that was play together," said Horace Grant. "On the court, you have to be one unit. When you play with Michael Jordan, you have to put your ego aside. He was the man. With me, that was not difficult at all. I love winning championships.

Answered my own question...

[Da_Realist]

Page 221...

Craig Hodges, Michael's former teammate:

In the 1989 playoffs with Cleveland, I'll never forget the famous 'Ehlo Game'. The Cavs scored in the closing seconds, and the defensive mistake was mine. I felt I'd cost us the game and at the timeout MJ could feel my pain. He said to me, 'Don't even worry about it, Hodge. I've got you covered'. Then he hits the miracle shot to win it for us. I was off the hook. What a teammate.

[GreatLakes]

Kobe is great, but he is no Michael Jordan. I'm not a Bulls fan, or a huge Jordan fan, but the guy was and is the greatest. In comparison to Kobe, there are 2 ways to look at it. Jordan was greater both physically and mentally, and both are very simple examine. Physically, I think it's Jordan's size and strength (2 underrated qualities he had) that put him over the top in comparison to Kobe. Of course there is amazing talent, ability, athleticism, fundamentals of the game, intelligence, etc...but Kobe's got those too, as do lots of others, but Jordan's size and strength at the 2-guard coupled with his work ethic, "eye of the tiger" mentality, and ability made him completely unstoppable. Mentally, the man flat out refused to lose. Remember last year (I think it was last year) when the Lakers were losing in game 7 to the Suns and Kobe pretty much threw in the towel in the 4th and didn't shoot anymore? MJ would NEVER do that. As it's been stated earlier, Kobe's main objective is himself...MJ's main objective was winning. When you're doing everything in your power to win as opposed to have an individual great game, it brings out more in a player. Jordan was the perfect combination of the mental and physical makeup it takes to be a GREAT basketball player. Don't get me wrong, Kobe is a rare talent and an amazing basketball player, but he's simply not MJ. He shouldn't be offended by the fact that he's not as good as MJ, as Kobe fans shouldn't either, because nobody has ever been as good.

Why does every thread that involves Kobe Bryant have to devolve into the old "who is better MJ or Kobe?" I don't think that was ever a part of this thread but of course thats where it has to go.:confusedshrug:

[GreatLakes]

How to be like Mike
by Pat Williams
Page 211-212

In Chicago, we knew what we had to do to win, and that was play together," said Horace Grant. "On the court, you have to be one unit. When you play with Michael Jordan, you have to put your ego aside. He was the man. With me, that was not difficult at all. I love winning championships.

Answered my own question...

To get a single quote from a book does not prove your point when there are other quotes from other books that are completely opposite. Its like getting a Shaq quote about how Kobe is the best player in the league, and his love for Kobe. There are many of those out there. But we all know that Shaq and Kobe really don't get along. Whats with the obsession to prove that Jordan was loved by all his teammates?:confusedshrug:

[Da_Realist]

Whats with the obsession to prove that Jordan was loved by all his teammates?:confusedshrug:

I'm not trying to prove he was loved by all his teammates...I'm trying to disprove the notion that "most of his teammates hated his guts".

[GreatLakes]

I'm not trying to prove he was loved by all his teammates...I'm trying to disprove the notion that "most of his teammates hated his guts".

Again hate is a strong word, can we agree that a number of players disliked him? The Ho G quote pretty much says that he respects MJ and likes winning championships. Didn't say he actually liked him. The enmity between HoG and MJ is pretty well documented as well as between Cartwright and MJ. I am going to leave it at that.

[Da_Realist]

Again hate is a strong word, can we agree that a number of players disliked him? The Ho G quote pretty much says that he respects MJ and likes winning championships. Didn't say he actually liked him. The enmity between HoG and MJ is pretty well documented as well as between Cartwright and MJ. I am going to leave it at that.

Where is the documentation? Any direct quotes? Anything about his relationship with the rest of the Bulls since The Jordan Rules were written?

I hadn't read or heard anything that says any one of them disliked him. I've heard about a few fights and arguments...but we've all had those.

[GreatLakes]

Where is the documentation? Any direct quotes? Anything about his relationship with the rest of the Bulls since The Jordan Rules were written?

I hadn't read or heard anything that says any one of them disliked him. I've heard about a few fights and arguments...but we've all had those.

Geez why does it have to be since The Jordan Rules? Tell me of a book, that says anything negative about Michael Jordan since the Jordan Rules. I have listed, "When Nothing Else Matters" but you dismissed that cuz it was with Washington. Thats the only other book that is critical of Jordan in the slightest. I haven't read the book you keep referring too, but is there anything critical in that book? BTW you never addressed the Will "Vanderbilt" thing.

PS. The book you keep referring to is called "How to be Like Mike" do you honestly think there would be anything critical in that book?

[Da_Realist]

Geez why does it have to be since The Jordan Rules? Tell me of a book, that says anything negative about Michael Jordan since the Jordan Rules. I have listed, "When Nothing Else Matters" but you dismissed that cuz it was with Washington. Thats the only other book that is critical of Jordan in the slightest. I haven't read the book you keep referring too, but is there anything critical in that book? BTW you never addressed the Will "Vanderbilt" thing.

I never denied tension in Washington. That's why I dismissed it.

About Will Perdue. I believe he said it. I don't think I denied anything from The Jordan Rules. I read it. It still doesn't say most of his teammates disliked him.

Name one book that's critical of MJ since The Jordan Rules? I can't. But that makes my point. If he was a demon somebody would have thought of a way to become famous by writing a tell-all. Just like Sam Smith did.

Full Disclosure... I'm not saying MJ was a saint. I'm not denying that he could be harsh or he fought/argued with his teammates. I am saying that doesn't mean most of his teammates disliked him. It just doesn't. Grown men with egos that are forced to deal with each other 9 months of every year are going to have disagreements. C'est normal, n'est-ce pas?

He also worked out with Scottie Pippen and Ron Harper at his home on days the team was in Chicago. He played cards on the bus with his teammates on the road. He went out to clubs with teammates on the road. He would gamble with teammates. I have video of MJ and Horace Grant playing H-O-R-S-E in practice (Horace won, believe it or not).

I don't believe most of the Bulls disliked him unless you provide some proof.

[Da_Realist]

PS. The book you keep referring to is called "How to be Like Mike" do you honestly think there would be anything critical in that book?

...and you don't see the irony. You choose to quote...well, make reference to a book that is highly critical of MJ. I choose to quote a book that is not. I never complained about the book you referenced, but you complain about my attempts to counter what you say.

I can also quote other sources...books, magazines, video, etc

[GreatLakes]

...and you don't see the irony. You choose to quote...well, make reference to a book that is highly critical of MJ. I choose to quote a book that is not. I never complained about the book you referenced, but you complain about my attempts to counter what you say.

I can also quote other sources...books, magazines, video, etc

There is no irony. You asked for proof that his teammates disliked him. This sort of proof is only going to be in books that are critical of MJ. I only know of two books of such nature and I referred to both of them. I never asked you to for any quotes that laud MJ, yet you chose to post them as if they would somehow refute what I was saying.

You think there might not be many critical books out there because most authors don't get the type of access that these guys got? You don't think that much of the media was out to protect MJ?

[Killer_Instinct]

I think pretty much everyone knows MJ wasn't exactly a locker room favorite amongst his teammates.

[GreatLakes]

I never denied tension in Washington. That's why I dismissed it.

About Will Perdue. I believe he said it. I don't think I denied anything from The Jordan Rules. I read it. It still doesn't say most of his teammates disliked him.

Name one book that's critical of MJ since The Jordan Rules? I can't. But that makes my point. If he was a demon somebody would have thought of a way to become famous by writing a tell-all. Just like Sam Smith did.

I have listed a book since the Jordan Rules that is critical of MJ. C'est Vrai?

[juju151111]

There is no irony. You asked for proof that his teammates disliked him. This sort of proof is only going to be in books that are critical of MJ. I only know of two books of such nature and I referred to both of them. I never asked you to for any quotes that laud MJ, yet you chose to post them as if they would somehow refute what I was saying.

You think there might not be many critical books out there because most authors don't get the type of access that these guys got? You don't think that much of the media was out to protect MJ?
The media was not out to protect anyone.My god this pisses me off so much.The media got on Mj when he gambled and announcers taled about it all the time when bulls gms.The media destroyed Mj until 1991.He was selfish and said he couldn't play defense:wtf:.The media is BS.They no noting.I will say it again.The difference with Kobe and Mj early in his career is he argued/fight with his teammates because he felt the wasn't performing up to his level because he wanted to win so bad.He hanged out with them and stuff, but hey everyone will fight and argue alot.LOL if u think MJ was the only one who fought.Fights happen in locker rooms all the time, but teams keep it away from the media.Kobe wanted to be a one man show and was also a loner.He never interacted with his teammates back then.The kobe of the past few years has been interacting with his teammates and hanging out.If Mj had shaq has a rookie he wouldn't complain because he new shaq was going to get the job done.

[Heilige]

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/maestrojo/120787879668.jpg

[Da_Realist]

There is no irony. You asked for proof that his teammates disliked him. This sort of proof is only going to be in books that are critical of MJ. I only know of two books of such nature and I referred to both of them. I never asked you to for any quotes that laud MJ, yet you chose to post them as if they would somehow refute what I was saying.

You think there might not be many critical books out there because most authors don't get the type of access that these guys got? You don't think that much of the media was out to protect MJ?

The book you quoted does not say MJ was disliked by most of his teammates. Everything you're talking about can be referenced back to one book. One book of many that has been written on the most analyzed basketball player in history. There were some that protected MJ, but it's countered by the scrutiny the man faced every single day of his career. The world wanted to know why he was gambling at 2 am the morning before Game 2 of the 93 ECF. The world wanted to know what happened with his dad. The world thought a conspiracy forced him to retire. Everything is magnified with MJ so it balances out.

MJ fights with someone in practice, he's a bad teammate. If he raises his voice, he's verbally abusive. If he kicks a chair in the lockeroom, he's physically abusive, etc. I don't know anyone that's never fought, never argued, never lost his/her temper. It doesn't mean everyone dislikes them.

The question is...after the fights, the arguments, etc..what happened? Isn't it possible to have a disagreement and be cool by the next game? People always cite how Mike fought Steve Kerr and was kicked out of practice. No one ever says the part about Mike feeling so bad that he called and left a message on Steve's phone apologizing and explaining how much of a mistake that was. No one cites how Steve Kerr is cool with MJ to this day. That H-O-R-S-E game with Horace occured after The Jordan Rules. Bill Cartwright was on the coaching staff of teams that MJ led to championships.

Besides, if they all hated his guts, why would they agree to be interviewed in a book glorifying him? BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, Bill Cartwright, Stacey King, Phil Jackson, John Bach, Tex Winters, Horace Grant, etc are all quoted in this book, written almost 10 years after the book you keep referencing.

I don't deny what you read in that book written 16 years ago. It's only fair that I post things written/heard/seen since then that counters it.

[Da_Realist]

I have listed a book since the Jordan Rules that is critical of MJ. C'est Vrai?

Pas du tout, mon ami. Je ne nie rien qui s'est pass

[RoodyPooUS]

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/maestrojo/120787879668.jpg

That is a biased collage!! 5 Kyon sightings and no other repeats that I spotted.

[markymark]

Ah yes...

The 'unnamed scout'... Ever present in pieces that are trying to convey a point without the author actually interjecting his own opinion on the matter. I have a hard time believing there is any professional scout that believes what was printed and, if he/she does, I feel sorry for the team for which he/she is scouting.

But, beyond that ludicrous comparison, there is nothing especially well done about this article. It told me nothing that I hadn't known and the writing was choppy and didn't have a nice flow.

:confusedshrug:

I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion.


There must be something seriously wrong with you if you can't even get to appreciate the article. I'm definitely not a kobe fan (especially after he crushed AI's 2001 champ run) but after reading this, I learned how to respect and admire the black mamba.

Stop hugging on to bron's nuts even for just 1 second.

[Cerebral Jedi]

I wonder who the other 28 players are that love the game like AI and Kobe.

I guarantee shaq ain't on that list...and never was. Thus part of the conflict between Kobe and shaq...IMO.

[guy]

The book you quoted does not say MJ was disliked by most of his teammates. Everything you're talking about can be referenced back to one book. One book of many that has been written on the most analyzed basketball player in history. There were some that protected MJ, but it's countered by the scrutiny the man faced every single day of his career. The world wanted to know why he was gambling at 2 am the morning before Game 2 of the 93 ECF. The world wanted to know what happened with his dad. The world thought a conspiracy forced him to retire. Everything is magnified with MJ so it balances out.

MJ fights with someone in practice, he's a bad teammate. If he raises his voice, he's verbally abusive. If he kicks a chair in the lockeroom, he's physically abusive, etc. I don't know anyone that's never fought, never argued, never lost his/her temper. It doesn't mean everyone dislikes them.

The question is...after the fights, the arguments, etc..what happened? Isn't it possible to have a disagreement and be cool by the next game? People always cite how Mike fought Steve Kerr and was kicked out of practice. No one ever says the part about Mike feeling so bad that he called and left a message on Steve's phone apologizing and explaining how much of a mistake that was. No one cites how Steve Kerr is cool with MJ to this day. That H-O-R-S-E game with Horace occured after The Jordan Rules. Bill Cartwright was on the coaching staff of teams that MJ led to championships.

Besides, if they all hated his guts, why would they agree to be interviewed in a book glorifying him? BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, Bill Cartwright, Stacey King, Phil Jackson, John Bach, Tex Winters, Horace Grant, etc are all quoted in this book, written almost 10 years after the book you keep referencing.

I don't deny what you read in that book written 16 years ago. It's only fair that I post things written/heard/seen since then that counters it.

Great post. All those books show is that Jordan wasn't perfect, not a bad person. You have never heard of anyone leaving the Bulls because of Jordan, and you've never heard of anyone after leaving the Bulls for whatever reason blasting Jordan for the person he is like you have with other sports teams and even other entertainment forms like movies, tv, and music. You would think that sometime in the past 25 years, someone that really disliked the guy would've came out and tried to stir up controversy and discredit his character, but that has only come from journalists.

[mjbulls23]

Da Vinci fanboys

:roll:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Best parts of the article that encapsulate why I'm such a HUGE Kobe Bryant fan ...

- Some people are Star Wars nerds; Bryant is a basketball nerd. "I think Kobe's actually a little bit embarrassed by his love of basketball," says Downer. "People called him a loner, but it's just that basketball is all he wants to focus on. I think he's part of a dying breed that loves the game that way."

- For example, on his weaknesses: "Um, let me think . . . [long pause] . . . No, I don't think he has any." On his athleticism: "There are probably 10 [with more] in the league" -- he names Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, Dwight Howard and J.R. Smith as examples -- "but no one uses his as well as Kobe. Just watch his footwork sometime." And on his focus: "There's a difference between loving basketball and liking basketball. There are only about 30 guys in the league who love it, who play year-round. Allen Iverson loves to play when the lights come on. Kobe loves doing the s--- before the lights come on."

The response to people who don't understand Kobe's lack of fear, or the willingness and compulsion to be so selfish at such crucial times ...

- "If he's a ruthless s.o.b., I kind of respect that," says Ravin. "Why should he be passing up opportunities? Why pass it to a guy who doesn't work as hard, who doesn't want it like you do?"

That's a warrior, a soldier.

And the icing on the cake ...

- A guy who, no matter what he does, will never get the chance to play the one game he'd die for: Bryant versus Jordan, each in his prime. "There'd be blood on the floor by the end," says Winter, who has coached them both.


That I have now been saying on these boards for years. I highly doubt prime Bryant could beat a prime Jordan on a consistent basis, but like I've always said ... he's the only one in NBA history capable of going round for round, blood and guts left out on the court to have a knock down, drag 'em out duel with His Airness.

[ukplayer4]

I'm used to MJ fanboys getting all pissy when their Kobe is compared to their God...But now we got Da Vinci fanboys doing so? HAHAHAHAHA! Damn shame, the hatred for Kobe.

Kobe is focused/determined/dedicated. What's so damn wrong about that? Those are bad qualities? :confusedshrug:



ya cause its hatred towards kobe because we dont agree kobe is as great as da vinci(the pinnicle of human life). you are unbelievably stupid.

you kobe fans have lost any sense of rationality or dignity A LONNNGGGG time ago.

[RedBlackAttack]

There must be something seriously wrong with you if you can't even get to appreciate the article. I'm definitely not a kobe fan (especially after he crushed AI's 2001 champ run) but after reading this, I learned how to respect and admire the black mamba.

Stop hugging on to bron's nuts even for just 1 second.
It has nothing to do with the Cavaliers. After reading the rave reviews from the OP and the first few posters on this thread, I expected an outstanding article. If this piece told you anything you didn't already know, you don't follow basketball all that closely.

Kobe works hard? Get out of here... I don't believe it. That has only been drilled into our brains every day since the kid was 18.

The article was decent... nothing special. After reading the OP, I expected something special.

[Rocker09]

You can love him or hate him but that won't stop Kobe from being great

[Emile]

It has nothing to do with the Cavaliers. After reading the rave reviews from the OP and the first few posters on this thread, I expected an outstanding article. If this piece told you anything you didn't already know, you don't follow basketball all that closely.

Kobe works hard? Get out of here... I don't believe it. That has only been drilled into our brains every day since the kid was 18.

The article was decent... nothing special. After reading the OP, I expected something special.

That is your opinion only, I suppose. Most people thought it was great. I got ****load of rep points for just posting the article lol...so I know.
Generally, it's regarded as a great article. If you don't like it, perhaps you're in a minority. And yeah, saying it deserves a Pulitzer's is clearly a hyperbole but a great article nonetheless. You're likely one of the few to not like it. So you can't really speak for everyone else.

[markymark]

A guy who, no matter what he does, will never get the chance to play the one game he'd die for: Bryant versus Jordan, each in his prime. "There'd be blood on the floor by the end," says Winter, who has coached them both

danggg this part gave me goosebumps

[Heilige]

Best parts of the article that encapsulate why I'm such a HUGE Kobe Bryant fan ...

- Some people are Star Wars nerds; Bryant is a basketball nerd. "I think Kobe's actually a little bit embarrassed by his love of basketball," says Downer. "People called him a loner, but it's just that basketball is all he wants to focus on. I think he's part of a dying breed that loves the game that way."

- For example, on his weaknesses: "Um, let me think . . . [long pause] . . . No, I don't think he has any." On his athleticism: "There are probably 10 [with more] in the league" -- he names Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, Dwight Howard and J.R. Smith as examples -- "but no one uses his as well as Kobe. Just watch his footwork sometime." And on his focus: "There's a difference between loving basketball and liking basketball. There are only about 30 guys in the league who love it, who play year-round. Allen Iverson loves to play when the lights come on. Kobe loves doing the s--- before the lights come on."

The response to people who don't understand Kobe's lack of fear, or the willingness and compulsion to be so selfish at such crucial times ...

- "If he's a ruthless s.o.b., I kind of respect that," says Ravin. "Why should he be passing up opportunities? Why pass it to a guy who doesn't work as hard, who doesn't want it like you do?"

That's a warrior, a soldier.

And the icing on the cake ...

- A guy who, no matter what he does, will never get the chance to play the one game he'd die for: Bryant versus Jordan, each in his prime. "There'd be blood on the floor by the end," says Winter, who has coached them both.


That I have now been saying on these boards for years. I highly doubt prime Bryant could beat a prime Jordan on a consistent basis, but like I've always said ... he's the only one in NBA history capable of going round for round, blood and guts left out on the court to have a knock down, drag 'em out duel with His Airness.



:applause: :applause:

[Soothsayer]

Best parts of the article that encapsulate why I'm such a HUGE Kobe Bryant fan ...

- Some people are Star Wars nerds; Bryant is a basketball nerd. "I think Kobe's actually a little bit embarrassed by his love of basketball," says Downer. "People called him a loner, but it's just that basketball is all he wants to focus on. I think he's part of a dying breed that loves the game that way."

- For example, on his weaknesses: "Um, let me think . . . [long pause] . . . No, I don't think he has any." On his athleticism: "There are probably 10 [with more] in the league" -- he names Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, Dwight Howard and J.R. Smith as examples -- "but no one uses his as well as Kobe. Just watch his footwork sometime." And on his focus: "There's a difference between loving basketball and liking basketball. There are only about 30 guys in the league who love it, who play year-round. Allen Iverson loves to play when the lights come on. Kobe loves doing the s--- before the lights come on."

The response to people who don't understand Kobe's lack of fear, or the willingness and compulsion to be so selfish at such crucial times ...

- "If he's a ruthless s.o.b., I kind of respect that," says Ravin. "Why should he be passing up opportunities? Why pass it to a guy who doesn't work as hard, who doesn't want it like you do?"

That's a warrior, a soldier.

And the icing on the cake ...

- A guy who, no matter what he does, will never get the chance to play the one game he'd die for: Bryant versus Jordan, each in his prime. "There'd be blood on the floor by the end," says Winter, who has coached them both.


That I have now been saying on these boards for years. I highly doubt prime Bryant could beat a prime Jordan on a consistent basis, but like I've always said ... he's the only one in NBA history capable of going round for round, blood and guts left out on the court to have a knock down, drag 'em out duel with His Airness.


Good post, and I agree.

Jordan is the probably the only player ever who would...eventually....get Kobe to give up and given in, and admit defeat.

[godofgods]

LOL, I'm surprised this clown hasn't been punched in the face.

[KingLeBronJames]

I started to read it, but when I saw how long it was, I said f*ck it. I don't like Kobe that damn much.
It's worth the read.

[KingLeBronJames]

tells me all i need to know about Kobe.

I could always respect Kobe's competitive spirit but he had no respect for any one.
Who cares. It was a freakin All-Star game.

[chazzy]

LOL, I'm surprised this clown hasn't been punched in the face.

I still haven't seen a decent post from this guy :oldlol:

[Heilige]

I still haven't seen a decent post from this guy :oldlol:


:roll:

[PowerGlove]

Do you guys think that its a chemical imbalance or an obsession?

[Heilige]

Do you guys think that its a chemical imbalance or an obsession?


An obsession. Kobe is driven to be the best player ever.

[Kris75]

Similar article on ESPN today:
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/columns/story?id=5245358