Ex-referee Tim Donaghy blows whistle on NBA dirty secrets

[RandomBalla55]

I feel the exact same way. Did anyone else find it unusual that David Stern and Steven A. Smith used similar phraseology in discussing the matter? The NBA has a 10 year or whatever agreement with ESPN/ABC/Disney/Whoever the Hell They Are. Do you think any ESPN employee is gonna bash D Stizzle? No way. I'm surprised JVG was able to secure his lips, because his teams have been screwed many times over the years.

I also would like to reiterate what has been stated many times. Regardless of where your allegience lies, the many blatant inconsistencies that occur regularly with various entities just point to shady behind the scenes stuff. I HATED the Kings back then, but man they were screwed. The series should have ended in Game 6.

I couldn't care for the Suns, but last year vs. the Spurs, they were blatantly treated unfairly. Stern said the suspensions were justifiable simply because the rule states when a player enters the court during an altercation, he's gone. In other words, his intent doesn't matter. In the same game, Bowen and Duncan do the same thing, but nothing happens. "Well, that wasn't really an altercation." Fine, we'll accept that. What about this year? KG and Zaza are punching each others lights out (at least trying to) and Marvin Williams and Kendrick Perkins step on the court. What happened? NOTHING! WTF!?!?!?

I HATE the Spurs. But Fish jumps on top of Barry and there's no call. The league even said it should've been a foul. But who cares? The series was over. Should've been 2-2, but it was 3-1. I mean I HATE the Spurs, so I partly laughed, but they got screwed. They only didn't say anything because they've been the beneficiaries of a few calls/non-calls here and there. ;)

This year, I LOATHE the Lakers. The NBA rigged it to get by the Jazz and the Spurs. I've loved Boston this year. But the Lakers got screwed in the first 2 games in Boston. Just as Boston will get screwed in their games in L.A.

The NBA is getting to a point where David Stern is micromanaging everything so much, that every game is "rigged/fixed" to a certain degree. It's ridiculous. He's getting more and more drastic as the NBA's image steadily declines and so things are getting worse and worse.

He really got desparate after the whole Artest thing.

*Tried to create a dynasty with the Spurs. Everyone would rather pull their own teeth out.
*Tried to recreate MJ with Wade in '06. He's hurt too much.

Then Tim happened.

Let's rig 2 of the most lopsided trades ever to ressurect the NBA's most credible/well known franchises magically so that we can defer attention from Tim.

I know these conspiracy theory rants probably get old, but as a true NBA fan, it's ridiculous. The NBA is the only league I follow. It's practically the only tv I watch. And I feel like washing myself completely clean of it.

My logic is this. Why would Donaghy do this? To save his butt? How much can he save his butt when he's been convicted of gambling with the mob? The details of these items disclosed are just way too specific. For one, every one knew about the Kings/Lakers thing. But the Houston/Dallas thing? That is SO specific. A certain player setting screens. I mean, why would he make that up? And THIS has been the sealer for me:

---Why is David Stern (And ESPN/ABC, etc.) so concerned with destroying Donaghy's credibility rather than attack the issues that Tim's brought up? If they weren't rigged, he would say, 'No the Kings/Lakers series wasn't rigged. Yao Ming setting screens? No that's ridiculous...'

Know what I mean? He probably refered to Donaghy as a felon 50 times last night, but not once did he refute the allegations themselves.

I don't know what to do now. I feel like I've been on the Truman Show for the last 15 years.

:applause: :applause:

Excellent post.

The JVG interview looked rigged. :oldlol: JVG looked like he had a gun to his head and if he said anything wrong or non p/cish about the NBA, he would've gotten his ass fired on the spot.

The FACT that the average american (who DOES provide the NBA with a lot, regardless if people think they're stupid), thinks the NBA is rigged is just REALLY, REALLY bad. $tern's in deep ****. He can't **** around with any refs now.

[nba_55]

i just watched the houston and dallas game 5. and wow, i'm shocked. And i just feel so sorry for Yao Ming. And oh Tmac, it was never on you..
As a big T-mac fan, that hurts a lot. Please fire Stern. The NBA needs someone new.

[mattreis62]

They need some sort of federal investigation to get to the bottom of this. I would really like to hear more about the whole JVG being informed about Yao by one of the refs situation. He'd have to spill the beans if they put him under oath.

[cliffhagan]

They need some sort of federal investigation to get to the bottom of this. I would really like to hear more about the whole JVG being informed about Yao by one of the refs situation. He'd have to spill the beans if they put him under oath.

The problem is, rigging a basketball game isn't necessarily against the law. Only if betting is involved.

Another problem is, look at how powerful Stern is. It's similar to Vince McMahon (who I love). They've investigated him several times for giving his employees steroids. Has there ever been anything more obvious in the world? Those guys have like muscles on their veins' muscles. But anyway, McMahon has never been convicted (at least to really hurt him and remove his power and what he's doing).

I hope a crazed Boston / Lakers fan storms the stands during a game when their team is getting screwed (both oppurtunities will present themselves) and take Stern out.

[falc39]

I feel the exact same way. Did anyone else find it unusual that David Stern and Steven A. Smith used similar phraseology in discussing the matter? The NBA has a 10 year or whatever agreement with ESPN/ABC/Disney/Whoever the Hell They Are. Do you think any ESPN employee is gonna bash D Stizzle? No way. I'm surprised JVG was able to secure his lips, because his teams have been screwed many times over the years.

I also would like to reiterate what has been stated many times. Regardless of where your allegience lies, the many blatant inconsistencies that occur regularly with various entities just point to shady behind the scenes stuff. I HATED the Kings back then, but man they were screwed. The series should have ended in Game 6.

I couldn't care for the Suns, but last year vs. the Spurs, they were blatantly treated unfairly. Stern said the suspensions were justifiable simply because the rule states when a player enters the court during an altercation, he's gone. In other words, his intent doesn't matter. In the same game, Bowen and Duncan do the same thing, but nothing happens. "Well, that wasn't really an altercation." Fine, we'll accept that. What about this year? KG and Zaza are punching each others lights out (at least trying to) and Marvin Williams and Kendrick Perkins step on the court. What happened? NOTHING! WTF!?!?!?

I HATE the Spurs. But Fish jumps on top of Barry and there's no call. The league even said it should've been a foul. But who cares? The series was over. Should've been 2-2, but it was 3-1. I mean I HATE the Spurs, so I partly laughed, but they got screwed. They only didn't say anything because they've been the beneficiaries of a few calls/non-calls here and there. ;)

This year, I LOATHE the Lakers. The NBA rigged it to get by the Jazz and the Spurs. I've loved Boston this year. But the Lakers got screwed in the first 2 games in Boston. Just as Boston will get screwed in their games in L.A.

The NBA is getting to a point where David Stern is micromanaging everything so much, that every game is "rigged/fixed" to a certain degree. It's ridiculous. He's getting more and more drastic as the NBA's image steadily declines and so things are getting worse and worse.

He really got desparate after the whole Artest thing.

*Tried to create a dynasty with the Spurs. Everyone would rather pull their own teeth out.
*Tried to recreate MJ with Wade in '06. He's hurt too much.

Then Tim happened.

Let's rig 2 of the most lopsided trades ever to ressurect the NBA's most credible/well known franchises magically so that we can defer attention from Tim.

I know these conspiracy theory rants probably get old, but as a true NBA fan, it's ridiculous. The NBA is the only league I follow. It's practically the only tv I watch. And I feel like washing myself completely clean of it.

My logic is this. Why would Donaghy do this? To save his butt? How much can he save his butt when he's been convicted of gambling with the mob? The details of these items disclosed are just way too specific. For one, every one knew about the Kings/Lakers thing. But the Houston/Dallas thing? That is SO specific. A certain player setting screens. I mean, why would he make that up? And THIS has been the sealer for me:

---Why is David Stern (And ESPN/ABC, etc.) so concerned with destroying Donaghy's credibility rather than attack the issues that Tim's brought up? If they weren't rigged, he would say, 'No the Kings/Lakers series wasn't rigged. Yao Ming setting screens? No that's ridiculous...'

Know what I mean? He probably refered to Donaghy as a felon 50 times last night, but not once did he refute the allegations themselves.

I don't know what to do now. I feel like I've been on the Truman Show for the last 15 years.

You put it better in words than I could. That's how I feel.

I cried foul on the trade with Pau earlier this year. I mean if you think about it, whenever a star is traded (or just given away), it is always to the other conference. Shaq, Tmac, artest, basically any blockbuster trade. I'm sure there had to be a bunch of red lights go on when Memphis decided to give Pau to a conference rival. It makes no sense. He broke an unwritten gm rule.

After game 2, I was watching game 3 and I actually got bored yesterday so I turned it off so I can read posts on here. I mean I actually felt like I already knew who was going to win the game, so what's the point of watching? If this is what the nba is reduced to, then you can count me out. Why should I watch if it's already decided to go to 7 gms?

[gts]

actually the newspaper said:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BKN_BETTING_PROBE?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=SPORTS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULTah well we'll see next month ...lol

the NY times says


Donaghy is scheduled to be sentenced July 14. He could face up to 25 years in prison and a $500,000 fine, but is expected to receive a lighter sentence because he cooperated with the authorities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/sports/basketball/11refs.html


ive' also read the fine was 30,000 to statman's claim it was up to 1 million

[cliffhagan]

You put it better in words than I could. That's how I feel.

I cried foul on the trade with Pau earlier this year. I mean if you think about it, whenever a star is traded (or just given away), it is always to the other conference. Shaq, Tmac, artest, basically any blockbuster trade. I'm sure there had to be a bunch of red lights go on when Memphis decided to give Pau to a conference rival. It makes no sense. He broke an unwritten gm rule.

After game 2, I was watching game 3 and I actually got bored yesterday so I turned it off so I can read posts on here. I mean I actually felt like I already knew who was going to win the game, so what's the point of watching? If this is what the nba is reduced to, then you can count me out. Why should I watch if it's already decided to go to 7 gms?

I know man. That how I felt watching game 2. And I'm actually rooting for Boston (KG). This series will go 7 games, btw, in case you haven't already guessed. Lol. 7 rigged games. Maybe 6 rigged games and then a winner take all.

[dafunkphenom]

They need some sort of federal investigation to get to the bottom of this. I would really like to hear more about the whole JVG being informed about Yao by one of the refs situation. He'd have to spill the beans if they put him under oath.
Great idea! This thing should go in front of congress just like the steroids issue. There is way too much doubt going around now.

I still feel like I got kicked in the nuts again. What's worse is I said last year that I would wash my hands of the league if this was still going on. But I still feel compelled to watch the finals.

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

They need some sort of federal investigation to get to the bottom of this. I would really like to hear more about the whole JVG being informed about Yao by one of the refs situation. He'd have to spill the beans if they put him under oath.


i agree..perhaps, david stern should step in and do his own "NBA INVESTIGATION" calling in refs who officated those games.

david stern just smirking and blowing off this issue is sketchy....

[rezznor]

a retort to those who think the NBA is fine and there is no funny business going on.

Tim Donaghy is a felon and scum, therefore he should not be believed
Same was said about Conseco, he is scum, but guess what, he was also telling the truth. Stern is using the same strategy as Clemens. Flat out deny deny deny and attack the accuser. Look at how well thats working out for Roger. Brian Macnamee is scum as well, but everything he said about Clemens seems to be turning out to be true.

Donaghy is the only one making these accusations, he has no collaboration.
Wrong. Rasheed, Cuban, JVG have all made similar claims in one way or another. Don't forget JVG's claim years ago that another official warned him about biased calls against Yao. Of course, JVG will never name his source because he isnt gonna throw the guy under the bus, but thats enough circumstantial evidence for me.

Donaghy is just a disgruntled ex employee. He is a rogue official. Noone else does this.
He is the only rogue official that we know of. Who's to say that there aren't more out there? When the refs got busted by the IRS for selling their first class tickets, was it only one official? No there was a handful of them, Many are still officiating today. So we all know the character of these officials and that they aren't exactly choirboys. we already know that they like top make easy money. they are in a position to influence the outcome of games...see where i am going with this?

How come New York, Boston and LA haven't been more successful then? Why has the league allowed small market Spurs to be more successful?
They can only do so much. New York, Boston and LA havent had very good teams in recent years. Noone would believe that any of these teams would make it to the finals with the teams they had these past few years. How to fix that? Engineer lopsided trades in each conference that make instant contenders out of the most storied rivalry in NBA history. (I personally admit that this is a bit of a stretch for me, but please humor me, playing devil's advocate here)


Now, do I think there is some vast conspiracy to predetermine the outcome of the games? No. Nor do I believe that Stern and his croneys are huddled together in some dark room at the beginning of each season in order to plot out some storyline ala Vince McMahon. However, when the opportunity presents itself, I do believe that Stern influences events to make it more likely that things happen that he believes are better for the league. Things like making a superstar out of Wade in the finals, making certain series go extra games for extra revenue, making sure superstars get special treatment so that they stay on the floor to give the audience what they want. Look, we ALL know that home teams and certain stars tend to get more calls. Why do we accept it? We have gotten so used to it that its something thats just expected. LA loses 2 in Boston, with some very questionable calls. ESPN analysts themselves say don't worry, LA will be home next and then they get the calls. Isn't there something wrong with that? Why do we just accept that that is how things are? Home court advantage is supposed to only be coming from the fans, playing in a familiar arena, etc. It should not include referee bias . Now if we accept things like that and superstar calls, is it such a stretch to imagine that the other things dont go on too? dont be naive.

[cliffhagan]

a retort to those who think the NBA is fine and there is no funny business going on.

Tim Donaghy is a felon and scum, therefore he should not be believed
Same was said about Conseco, he is scum, but guess what, he was also telling the truth. Stern is using the same strategy as Clemens. Flat out deny deny deny and attack the accuser. Look at how well thats working out for Roger. Brain Macnamee is scum as well, but everything he said about Clemens seems to be turning out to be true.

Donaghy is the only one making these accusations, he has no collaboration.
Wrong. Rasheed, Cuban, JVG have all made similar claims in one way or another. Don't forget JVG's claim years ago that another official warned him about biased calls against Yao. Of course, JVG will never name his source because he isnt gonna throw the guy under the bus, but thats enough circumstantial evidence for me.

How come New York, Boston and LA haven't been more successful then? Why has the league allowed small market Spurs to be more successful?
They can only do so much. New York, Boston and LA havent had very good teams in recent years. Noone would believe that any of these teams would make it to the finals with the teams they had these past few years. How to fix that? Engineer lopsided trades in each conference that make instant contenders out of the most storied rivalry in NBA history. (I personally admit that this is a bit of a stretch for me, but please humor me, playing devil's advocate here)


Now, do I think there is some vast conspiracy to predetermine the outcome of the games? No. Nor do I believe that Stern and his croneys are huddled together in some dark room at the beginning of each season in order to plot out some storyline ala Vince McMahon. However, when the opportunity presents itself, I do believe that Stern influences events to make it more likely that things happen that he believes are better for the league. Things like making a superstar out of Wade in the finals, making certain series go extra games for extra revenue, making sure superstars get special treatment so that they stay on the floor to give the audience what they want. Look, we ALL know that home teams and certain stars tend to get more calls. Why do we accept it? We have gotten so used to it that its something thats just expected. LA loses 2 in Boston, with some very questionable calls. ESPN analysts themselves say don't worry, LA will be home next and then they get the calls. Isn't there something wrong with that? Why do we just accept that that is how things are? Home court advantage is supposed to only be coming from the fans, playing in a familiar arena, etc. It should not include referee bias . Now if we accept things like that and superstar calls, is it such a stretch to imagine that the other things dont go on too? dont be naive.

Very, VERY well said. If I knew how to do the hand clapping smilie, I would. :D

I totally agree with Stern not scheming to rig every game. But his influence is such and he's such a micromanaging control freak, that I think it ends up being that way. He himself has stated over and over that he markets players; not teams. With all the little caveats and rule-bends that cater to superstars, the NBA might as well be rigged. Why can't they just play fair and square basketball?

The funny part is, I think the NBA would be MORE successful without all the premadonnas (spelling?). Look at college hoops. People love March Madness. They watch, not having a clue who the players are much of the time, certain teams just because. Why can't the NBA be like that?

Let me contradict myself. Because teams don't sell shoes. Players sell shoes. The NBA caters to superstars inherintly so, so as to build up a marketable product for areas outside of the league.

Anyway, sorry for the A.D.D. tangent rant. Excellent post...

[dafunkphenom]

a retort to those who think the NBA is fine and there is no funny business going on.

Tim Donaghy is a felon and scum, therefore he should not be believed
Same was said about Conseco, he is scum, but guess what, he was also telling the truth. Stern is using the same strategy as Clemens. Flat out deny deny deny and attack the accuser. Look at how well thats working out for Roger. Brian Macnamee is scum as well, but everything he said about Clemens seems to be turning out to be true.

Donaghy is the only one making these accusations, he has no collaboration.
Wrong. Rasheed, Cuban, JVG have all made similar claims in one way or another. Don't forget JVG's claim years ago that another official warned him about biased calls against Yao. Of course, JVG will never name his source because he isnt gonna throw the guy under the bus, but thats enough circumstantial evidence for me.

Donaghy is just a disgruntled ex employee. He is a rogue official. Noone else does this
He is the only rogue official that we know of. Who's to say that there aren't more out there? When the refs got busted by the IRS for selling their first class tickets, was it only one official? No there was a handful of them, Many are still officiating today. So we all know the character of these officials and that they aren't exactly choirboys. we already know that they like top make easy money. thay are in a position to influence the outcome of games...see where i am going with this?

How come New York, Boston and LA haven't been more successful then? Why has the league allowed small market Spurs to be more successful?
They can only do so much. New York, Boston and LA havent had very good teams in recent years. Noone would believe that any of these teams would make it to the finals with the teams they had these past few years. How to fix that? Engineer lopsided trades in each conference that make instant contenders out of the most storied rivalry in NBA history. (I personally admit that this is a bit of a stretch for me, but please humor me, playing devil's advocate here)


Now, do I think there is some vast conspiracy to predetermine the outcome of the games? No. Nor do I believe that Stern and his croneys are huddled together in some dark room at the beginning of each season in order to plot out some storyline ala Vince McMahon. However, when the opportunity presents itself, I do believe that Stern influences events to make it more likely that things happen that he believes are better for the league. Things like making a superstar out of Wade in the finals, making certain series go extra games for extra revenue, making sure superstars get special treatment so that they stay on the floor to give the audience what they want. Look, we ALL know that home teams and certain stars tend to get more calls. Why do we accept it? We have gotten so used to it that its something thats just expected. LA loses 2 in Boston, with some very questionable calls. ESPN analysts themselves say don't worry, LA will be home next and then they get the calls. Isn't there something wrong with that? Why do we just accept that that is how things are? Home court advantage is supposed to only be coming from the fans, playing in a familiar arena, etc. It should not include referee bias . Now if we accept things like that and superstar calls, is it such a stretch to imagine that the other things dont go on too? dont be naive.
Because everybody is suspicious. Canseco's story had weight even though some of it was fabricated.
Who cares about the Spurs/Lakers/Boston. This is not about marketing a team. This is about fishy tactics that we don't know the debt of.

[rezznor]

Because everybody is suspicious. Canseco's story had weight even though some of it was fabricated.
Who cares about the Spurs/Lakers/Boston. This is not about marketing a team. This is about fishy tactics that we don't know the debt of.
I'm not sure what you mean here. I dont know if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing hehe.

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

it's pure entertainment my friends..

http://slam.canoe.ca/SlamWrestlingGalleryImages/jul9806_malone.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/hulkroif/savhrod.jpg

http://theangryt.com/images/9-75/manager_clip_image011.jpg

[Sharas]

a retort to those who think the NBA is fine and there is no funny business going on.

Tim Donaghy is a felon and scum, therefore he should not be believed
Same was said about Conseco, he is scum, but guess what, he was also telling the truth. Stern is using the same strategy as Clemens. Flat out deny deny deny and attack the accuser. Look at how well thats working out for Roger. Brian Macnamee is scum as well, but everything he said about Clemens seems to be turning out to be true.

Donaghy is the only one making these accusations, he has no collaboration.
Wrong. Rasheed, Cuban, JVG have all made similar claims in one way or another. Don't forget JVG's claim years ago that another official warned him about biased calls against Yao. Of course, JVG will never name his source because he isnt gonna throw the guy under the bus, but thats enough circumstantial evidence for me.

Donaghy is just a disgruntled ex employee. He is a rogue official. Noone else does this.
He is the only rogue official that we know of. Who's to say that there aren't more out there? When the refs got busted by the IRS for selling their first class tickets, was it only one official? No there was a handful of them, Many are still officiating today. So we all know the character of these officials and that they aren't exactly choirboys. we already know that they like top make easy money. they are in a position to influence the outcome of games...see where i am going with this?

How come New York, Boston and LA haven't been more successful then? Why has the league allowed small market Spurs to be more successful?
They can only do so much. New York, Boston and LA havent had very good teams in recent years. Noone would believe that any of these teams would make it to the finals with the teams they had these past few years. How to fix that? Engineer lopsided trades in each conference that make instant contenders out of the most storied rivalry in NBA history. (I personally admit that this is a bit of a stretch for me, but please humor me, playing devil's advocate here)


Now, do I think there is some vast conspiracy to predetermine the outcome of the games? No. Nor do I believe that Stern and his croneys are huddled together in some dark room at the beginning of each season in order to plot out some storyline ala Vince McMahon. However, when the opportunity presents itself, I do believe that Stern influences events to make it more likely that things happen that he believes are better for the league. Things like making a superstar out of Wade in the finals, making certain series go extra games for extra revenue, making sure superstars get special treatment so that they stay on the floor to give the audience what they want. Look, we ALL know that home teams and certain stars tend to get more calls. Why do we accept it? We have gotten so used to it that its something thats just expected. LA loses 2 in Boston, with some very questionable calls. ESPN analysts themselves say don't worry, LA will be home next and then they get the calls. Isn't there something wrong with that? Why do we just accept that that is how things are? Home court advantage is supposed to only be coming from the fans, playing in a familiar arena, etc. It should not include referee bias . Now if we accept things like that and superstar calls, is it such a stretch to imagine that the other things dont go on too? dont be naive.

great post. repped. sums up my feelings on the topic entirely.

i don't believe every game is rigged, every playoff series, not even every finals. but anyone who thinks there's no tinkering with game and shady stuff AT ALL, is closing his eyes to the truth intentionally.
truth is always somewhere in the middle. i think it's ludicrous to believe every ref in the league is corrupt, or even the better part of them. but to believe tim donaghy is the only one, is ludicrous too.

[Rab]

The NBA has always been my favorite league to watch since I can remember. Some of my earliest memories in my life were watching Bird, McHale, Parish, Ainge etc with my father who was a big Celtics fan. I watched every Bulls game I could find so I could see MJ play. I latched onto the Suns and rooted for players like KJ, Thunder Dan, and Jeff Hornacek.

The point is, I've turned a blind eye to the NBA and it's detractors and conspiracy theorists for years, because the league was a big part of my life growing up, and still is a big interest of mine today. As the years have progressed, however, my overall interest in the league has declined because of stories like this.

I'm not about to completely take Donaghy for his word here. I do think that the guy is singing to get a lighter sentence, however, I don't completely disagree that he is totally lying. If there was ever one game that I can remember coming away and actually feeling it was rigged, it was Game 6 of the Kings/Lakers series. Now, this could be a case of Donaghy simply using that game, indirectly I might add, to plant a seed in everyone's mind because it was widely criticized when it happened. That is entirely possible, and would be easy to gain support from others who felt that way when the game was over. Regardless if the he's telling the truth or not, this is not good for the NBA, and there are certainly backings to those who may think there are some behind the scenes screwjobs going on but the NBA's front office. This is certainly pretty damning for Stern, who will again attempt to make all those who feel this way feel like idiots for believe so.

The last 2-3 years, the NBA has disgusted me with the way they've handled these allegations. Their letter to the law suspensions of Amare/Diaw in last year's WC Semi's against the Spurs, was interpreted different in the Hawks/Celtics series this year.

#1. Two players from the Hawks admitted they stepped onto the floor and received no suspensions.

#2. KG, though I love him as a player, put his hands on a referee that normally I'm guessing would deem suspension worthy.

#3. The league somehow deemed the incident "non-confrontational". How?

In a playoff where it was pretty clear the league wanted to see Lakers/Celtics from a PR standpoint, that makes it suspicious. The league has not been consistent when it comes to interpreting rules. Sometimes it would seem they interpret things to benefit them when the problem arises.

Most of my other points have been made by cliffhagan, so I won't rehash them. But there is a double standard in the NBA that raises my eyebrows at times, and I'm about as anti-conspiracy as they come. It really has come to the point where I don't want to watch as much as I used to. I don't want to invest time, money, and emotion into a sport that keeps taking a pounding like the NBA keeps taking.

[White Chocolate]

With what Donaghy said, I'd imagine David Stern would have to save face. After that NFL guy that was recently killed(though ruled suicide), anyone think Donaghy will suffer the same fate?

[falc39]

I doubt it.

This has enough publicity that if it did happen, it would probably backfire

[vert48]

They will find him after he commits suicide by beating himself to death with a bat.

[rezznor]

With what Donaghy said, I'd imagine David Stern would have to save face. After that NFL guy that was recently killed(though ruled suicide), anyone think Donaghy will suffer the same fate?
i posted something like that when this news first broke. I hope for Donaghy's sake he is in protective custody or hiding. Not only from Stern, but quite possibly from the mob.

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

With what Donaghy said, I'd imagine David Stern would have to save face. After that NFL guy that was recently killed(though ruled suicide), anyone think Donaghy will suffer the same fate?


I wouldn't be surprise.



:(

[crisoner]

He ain't sniching on gangsters is he?

If he does...Stern is connected and Cuban better shut the f*ck up form now on.

[SRZ66]

this isnt the movies, people dont get whacked

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

He ain't sniching on gangsters is he?

If he does...Stern is connected and Cuban better shut the f*ck up form now on.


you don't know what stern is connected to. look at Jeff Van Gundy after his remark about the NBA rigged his series. Jeff has since retracted his statements in many ways. Jeff knows if he wants to be a coach again or remain connected with the NBA as a announcer, he's needs to stfu...

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

this isnt the movies, people dont get whacked


says the guys who sold steriods to professional players.

[MrEncinas]

What the hell is hapening to these forums?

[InspiredLebowski]

The NFL steroid dealer did just "commit suicide."

I am started to feel like Stern's not going to have any other choice but to step down though.

[vert48]

Don't forget JVG's claim years ago that another official warned him about biased calls against Yao. Of course, JVG will never name his source because he isnt gonna throw the guy under the bus, but thats enough circumstantial evidence for me.
Would you blame the refs and league if they started calling Garnett for all of the moving screens he is setting, or would you blame Garnett for setting the illegal screen to begin with?

The league told the refs to start calling the obvious moving screens Yao was known for setting. That is hardly fixing, or even targeting Yao. All Yao had to do was stop setting the illegal screens.

The league official was trying to help the Rockets by warning JVG that the illegal screens were going to be called from now on.

[rezznor]

Would you blame the refs and league if they started calling Garnett for all of the moving screens he is setting, or would you blame Garnett for setting the illegal screen to begin with?

The league told the refs to start calling the obvious moving screens Yao was known for setting. That is hardly fixing, or even targeting Yao. All Yao had to do was stop setting the illegal screens.

The league official was trying to help the Rockets by warning JVG that the illegal screens were going to be called from now on.
i can concede the calls about moving screens. I have no problem with that. However, there were numerous calls against Yao that were fairly outrageous. It wasnt just the screens, yao got an obscene number of phantom calls.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7eY8qGHU52E

[vert48]

i can concede the calls about moving screens. I have no problem with that. However, there were numerous calls against Yao that were fairly outrageous. It wasnt just the screens, yao got an obscene number of phantom calls.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7eY8qGHU52EI just watched that clip, and if you turn down the sound so you don't have to listen to the most homerish announcers this side of Boston, it is not that bad. All 4 of Yao's fouls are certainly fouls. The last one where he fouls Howard, and then gets so pissed off is as obvious an offensive foul as there is. The only one that could have been a no call was where he fouled Terry (?) on the drive. Yao was also fouled on that layup and no call was made, but the 4 fouls were all good calls, with maybe 1 of them being a good no call.

[Rafa]

What the hell is hapening to these forums?

go elsewhere then :oldlol:

[rezznor]

I just watched that clip, and if you turn down the sound so you don't have to listen to the most homerish announcers this side of Boston, it is not that bad. All 4 of Yao's fouls are certainly fouls. The last one where he fouls Howard, and then gets so pissed off is as obvious an offensive foul as there is. The only one that could have been a no call was where he fouled Terry (?) on the drive. Yao was also fouled on that layup and no call was made, but the 4 fouls were all good calls, with maybe 1 of them being a good no call.
i agree that the announcers are homerish, im disregarding the commentary from my analysis. however, i dont see the fouls that you are seeing. Yao is not fouling anyone in most of those calls imo. in fact, he is clearly avoiding contact. the first screen call could be a foul i guess, but it was so slight, i believe its usually a no call.

[vert48]

i agree that the announcers are homerish, im disregarding the commentary from my analysis. however, i dont see the fouls that you are seeing. Yao is not fouling anyone in most of those calls imo. in fact, he is clearly avoiding contact. the first screen call could be a foul i guess, but it was so slight, i believe its usually a no call.Those are all obvious to me except the drive, which was 50/50. The fact that you do not see the offensive foul on that last one means that there is no way to even discuss this, since that is as obvious a foul as there is. We will have to agree to disagree.

[highwhey]

nah, he'll get sued or something like that, although if stern were to get rid of him, he would make it look like an accident...the only person who needs to get whacked is stern

[DaRizzle]

I am started to feel like Stern's not going to have any other choice but to step down though.

We can only hope

[bigkingsfan]

So he'll die of *natural* causes...

[statman32]

There have been a lot of good articles lately so I thought why not make a thread where we can discuss and read everyone. You can even post old articles if you would like. I know there are 100 other threads but I think this is a good idea.

Jeff, can you please sticky this.

http://myespn.go.com/nba/truehoop

A Professional Gambler's Take on the Tim Donaghy Scandal


Haralabos Voulgaris leads a rare life.

He's one of very few people -- Voulgaris estimates there may be as few as four or five -- whose main source of income is betting on the NBA.

And he does very well at it. "In the last eight years," he explains, "the 2004-2005 season was the only year where I didn't turn a nice profit, and I lost very small."

His approach is intensively evidence-based. He has his own massive database that would be the envy of any stat geek. For instance: Given two line-ups of players on the floor, his database does, he says, a good job of predicting which players will guard each other. The database also tracks the tendencies of individual referees, and factors all that and much more into forecasts. Voulgaris also watches close to 1,000 games a year.

He designed the database as a tool to outwit oddsmakers, and it works for that.Haralabos Voulgaris

But it's also a fine-tuned machine for researching the claims and career of Tim Donaghy. And having used this database, and his contacts in the sports betting world, Voulgaris says that his confidence in the integrity of the NBA has been shaken, to the point that, despite his big income, he's looking for ways to stop betting altogether.

It goes on to talk about the research he has done that relates to Tim Donoghy and NBA betting trends.

Here is another one...

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/19205629.html


Betting scandal cloud lingers

NBA remains slow at providing answers




A dark cloud of suspicion shadows his game, which was struck last summer by a crooked referee and a gambling scandal, and the reaction from NBA commissioner David Stern remains a smug expression of disbelief.

Instead of answers and apologies, Stern continues what might be perceived as an arrogant display of denials and finger pointing.

Something was rotten inside the NBA, and that is the only truth plainly evident more than 10 months after the FBI announced an investigation of former referee Tim Donaghy.

Details of tainted games and the level of corruption still are mostly a mystery. As the case's facts are slowly filtered for public consumption, questions persist about a possible basketball game-fixing scheme that demands full disclosure.

"I'm sure the NBA is hoping it goes away," Las Vegas Sports Consultants oddsmaker Ken White said. "They want to try to keep it as quiet as possible."

For several months, the Donaghy controversy was almost a forgotten issue. It resurfaced last week, when Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Goldberg filed a letter in a New York federal court saying Donaghy bet on more than 100 games he officiated over four seasons from 2003 to 2007.

Donaghy was fired by the NBA last year after he admitted to providing inside information to help gamblers wager on games. He said he recommended bets to gamblers and received $5,000 for his correct selections.

"Donaghy bet on numerous games that he worked," Goldberg wrote in his letter. "The government's investigation revealed that Donaghy provided picks for anywhere from 30 to 40 such games for each of those three seasons (2003-04, 2004-05 and 2005-06). During the 2006-07 season, Donaghy bet on approximately 30 games, including about 14 games that he refereed."

This one goes on to talk about NBA betting scandals in the past and how the NBA has handled them. It also gives a list and explanation of some games that might have been bet on and how Donoghy reffed games in the 06-07 season compared to his other seasons.

[highwhey]

What did Stern say? i've been watching Sportscenter all night, trying to find some coverage on the scandal, but i haven't gotten anything.
He just said Tim "was rehashing because his sentence was coming up shortly".

NBA is entertainment, that's why it's so easy for people to believe in conspiracies. I'm not sure if NBA games are rigged but I do know that some players are treated differently than others.


The NBA has always been my favorite league to watch since I can remember. Some of my earliest memories in my life were watching Bird, McHale, Parish, Ainge etc with my father who was a big Celtics fan. I watched every Bulls game I could find so I could see MJ play. I latched onto the Suns and rooted for players like KJ, Thunder Dan, and Jeff Hornacek.

The point is, I've turned a blind eye to the NBA and it's detractors and conspiracy theorists for years, because the league was a big part of my life growing up, and still is a big interest of mine today. As the years have progressed, however, my overall interest in the league has declined because of stories like this.

I'm not about to completely take Donaghy for his word here. I do think that the guy is singing to get a lighter sentence, however, I don't completely disagree that he is totally lying. If there was ever one game that I can remember coming away and actually feeling it was rigged, it was Game 6 of the Kings/Lakers series. Now, this could be a case of Donaghy simply using that game, indirectly I might add, to plant a seed in everyone's mind because it was widely criticized when it happened. That is entirely possible, and would be easy to gain support from others who felt that way when the game was over. Regardless if the he's telling the truth or not, this is not good for the NBA, and there are certainly backings to those who may think there are some behind the scenes screwjobs going on but the NBA's front office. This is certainly pretty damning for Stern, who will again attempt to make all those who feel this way feel like idiots for believe so.

The last 2-3 years, the NBA has disgusted me with the way they've handled these allegations. Their letter to the law suspensions of Amare/Diaw in last year's WC Semi's against the Spurs, was interpreted different in the Hawks/Celtics series this year.

#1. Two players from the Hawks admitted they stepped onto the floor and received no suspensions.

#2. KG, though I love him as a player, put his hands on a referee that normally I'm guessing would deem suspension worthy.

#3. The league somehow deemed the incident "non-confrontational". How?

In a playoff where it was pretty clear the league wanted to see Lakers/Celtics from a PR standpoint, that makes it suspicious. The league has not been consistent when it comes to interpreting rules. Sometimes it would seem they interpret things to benefit them when the problem arises.

Most of my other points have been made by cliffhagan, so I won't rehash them. But there is a double standard in the NBA that raises my eyebrows at times, and I'm about as anti-conspiracy as they come. It really has come to the point where I don't want to watch as much as I used to. I don't want to invest time, money, and emotion into a sport that keeps taking a pounding like the NBA keeps taking.

I agree, the suspension of Amare and Diaw is just another thing that bugs me. What bugs me even more is when Stern states that he "will further look into it", then nothing else happens. Just like the Tim Donaghy situation(before he was in jail).

[InspiredLebowski]

Tim Donaghy = Timmy Doughnuts. Spread the word.

[sixerfan82]

lets force him to watch the knicks

[rezznor]

http://www.yardbarker.com/m/18986/xl/davidsterngodfather.jpg

[steve franchise]

http://www.yardbarker.com/m/18986/xl/davidsterngodfather.jpg

I would love to see this.:oldlol:

[InspiredLebowski]

My opinion is games were fixed, but not by the NBA brass. Fixed by crooked refs who bet on games or were otherwise pressured by outside influences, perhaps the organized crime element. I also don't think they were fixed to determine strictly winners/losers, only to be in line with the spreads, which could obviously inadvertently result in a win or loss.

[32MJ32]

a retort to those who think the NBA is fine and there is no funny business going on.

Tim Donaghy is a felon and scum, therefore he should not be believed
Same was said about Conseco, he is scum, but guess what, he was also telling the truth. Stern is using the same strategy as Clemens. Flat out deny deny deny and attack the accuser. Look at how well thats working out for Roger. Brian Macnamee is scum as well, but everything he said about Clemens seems to be turning out to be true.

Why does this keep getting linked with The Mitchell Report? How are the 2 events related at all? Somebody please explain. Because Jose Canseco happened to be telling the truth, he's the test case for Donaghy? What about the thousands upon thousands of cases where a convicted felon has lied to save his own bacon? They have just as much of a correllation to Donaghy as Canseco does.


Donaghy is the only one making these accusations, he has no collaboration.
Wrong. Rasheed, Cuban, JVG have all made similar claims in one way or another. Don't forget JVG's claim years ago that another official warned him about biased calls against Yao. Of course, JVG will never name his source because he isnt gonna throw the guy under the bus, but thats enough circumstantial evidence for me.

Was I the only one who actually listened to what Van Gundy said yesterday? To paraphrase: I was upset because I had to hear from a league official, not from the refs themselves, that Yao would be getting "targetted" for setting moving picks. I am frustrated we didn't get to discuss it, me to the refs. I don't endorse anything Donaghy said.

Someone correct me if I messed up, please.


Donaghy is just a disgruntled ex employee. He is a rogue official. Noone else does this.
He is the only rogue official that we know of. Who's to say that there aren't more out there? When the refs got busted by the IRS for selling their first class tickets, was it only one official? No there was a handful of them, Many are still officiating today. So we all know the character of these officials and that they aren't exactly choirboys. we already know that they like top make easy money. they are in a position to influence the outcome of games...see where i am going with this?

The FBI is conducting a full investigation to wrapped up in the coming month or so. You can cease ****ting your pants with conspiracy fever excitement.


How come New York, Boston and LA haven't been more successful then? Why has the league allowed small market Spurs to be more successful?
They can only do so much. New York, Boston and LA havent had very good teams in recent years. Noone would believe that any of these teams would make it to the finals with the teams they had these past few years. How to fix that? Engineer lopsided trades in each conference that make instant contenders out of the most storied rivalry in NBA history. (I personally admit that this is a bit of a stretch for me, but please humor me, playing devil's advocate here)

No, I will not humor you. General Mangers and coaches lose jobs and livelihoods for bad trades. If you listen to the Grizzlies rationale for trading Pau, its actually not that bad (it's bad, but c'mon.. Charles Barkley got traded for Tim Perry and Jeff Hornacek. Bad trades happen.) Ditto Minnesota's with KG. Were they lopsided as of today? Yes, but clearly both franchises are working forwards.


Now, do I think there is some vast conspiracy to predetermine the outcome of the games? No. Nor do I believe that Stern and his croneys are huddled together in some dark room at the beginning of each season in order to plot out some storyline ala Vince McMahon. However, when the opportunity presents itself, I do believe that Stern influences events to make it more likely that things happen that he believes are better for the league. Things like making a superstar out of Wade in the finals, making certain series go extra games for extra revenue, making sure superstars get special treatment so that they stay on the floor to give the audience what they want. Look, we ALL know that home teams and certain stars tend to get more calls. Why do we accept it? We have gotten so used to it that its something thats just expected. LA loses 2 in Boston, with some very questionable calls. ESPN analysts themselves say don't worry, LA will be home next and then they get the calls. Isn't there something wrong with that? Why do we just accept that that is how things are? Home court advantage is supposed to only be coming from the fans, playing in a familiar arena, etc. It should not include referee bias . Now if we accept things like that and superstar calls, is it such a stretch to imagine that the other things dont go on too? dont be naive.

Nice slippery slope. The home crowd affects calls in every sport, everywhere. Does that mean they're all rigged, too?

[steve franchise]

Why does this keep getting linked with The Mitchell Report? How are the 2 events related at all? Somebody please explain. Because Jose Canseco happened to be telling the truth, he's the test case for Donaghy? What about the thousands upon thousands of cases where a convicted felon has lied to save his own bacon? They have just as much of a correllation to Donaghy as Canseco does.



Was I the only one who actually listened to what Van Gundy said yesterday? To paraphrase: I was upset because I had to hear from a league official, not from the refs themselves, that Yao would be getting "targetted" for setting moving picks. I am frustrated we didn't get to discuss it, me to the refs. I don't endorse anything Donaghy said.

Someone correct me if I messed up, please.



The FBI is conducting a full investigation to wrapped up in the coming month or so. You can cease ****ting your pants with conspiracy fever excitement.



No, I will not humor you. General Mangers and coaches lose jobs and livelihoods for bad trades. If you listen to the Grizzlies rationale for trading Pau, its actually not that bad (it's bad, but c'mon.. Charles Barkley got traded for Tim Perry and Jeff Hornacek. Bad trades happen.) Ditto Minnesota's with KG. Were they lopsided as of today? Yes, but clearly both franchises are working forwards.



Nice slippery slope. The home crowd affects calls in every sport, everywhere. Does that mean they're all rigged, too?

Stop ****ing man.:confusedshrug:

[kumquat]

I'd like to see a Rasheed Wallace interview on this, there is no way he would bite his tongue. Sheed is the one guy who wouldn't care about the repercussions.


it's pure entertainment my friends..
http://theangryt.com/images/9-75/manager_clip_image011.jpg

[32MJ32]

Stop ****ing man.:confusedshrug:

What I do?

[gts]

What I do?nothing just ignore him..

there are posters here that can't discuss things in a rational manner and instead drop to name calling and whining...

it's an ISH phenomenon, posters who think being unintelligent trolls is better than actually adding to the discussion

[SCY]

Those are all obvious to me except the drive, which was 50/50. The fact that you do not see the offensive foul on that last one means that there is no way to even discuss this, since that is as obvious a foul as there is. We will have to agree to disagree.

If those are obvious fouls to you, then most contact in basketball games must be an obvious foul to you. That's the thing about basketball, reffing is so subjective. If an official has an agenda to put Yao or another player in foul trouble, he can do it easily, because any player's going to be involved in a large number of contact situations.

And yeah, looked at the video again and the only Yao foul that wasn't a complete joke was the 1st one on the screen because he put his hands on the guy. Maybe ticky-tack, but a foul. But if you think Yao fouled Henderson even though Henderson was the one all over Yao, not letting it move and hacking him on the arms and chest, you are f*cking stupid. Enjoy your addition to my ignore list idiot.

[vert48]

If those are obvious fouls to you, then most contact in basketball games must be an obvious foul to you. That's the thing about basketball, reffing is so subjective. If an official has an agenda to put Yao or another player in foul trouble, he can do it easily, because any player's going to be involved in a large number of contact situations.

And yeah, looked at the video again and the only Yao foul that wasn't a complete joke was the 1st one on the screen because he put his hands on the guy. Maybe ticky-tack, but a foul. But if you think Yao fouled Henderson even though Henderson was the one all over Yao, not letting it move and hacking him on the arms and chest, you are f*cking stupid. Enjoy your addition to my ignore list idiot.That is where we disagree. Yao was obviously fouling Henderson in my opinion. Every time Henderson tried to get up next to Yao, Yao shoved him away. Henderson was also fouling Yao during that exchange, but not until Yao was shoving him away. The final shove was the last straw, and the ref called it. Easy call at the end after good no calls for both Yao and Henderson.

I just went back and watched it again, and you are trying to say that Yao did not foul that guy going after that rebound? He jumped forward and landed right on the guy, knocking him to the ground. How could that not be a foul?

[DCL]

everyone thought canseco was lying

many people with common sense knew about what canseco had to say before he even started talking or writing a book. anyone with an ounce of brain knew the players were juiced up in that era. i don't know why you were so surprised. don't tell me you're surprised to hear that nba games have been called unfairly only because of donaghy and this is the first time you wondered about it.

it didn't take a canseco at all to bring to most people's attention that players were using roids. EVERYONE but the biggest stubborn dumb asses knew. Duh.

and likewise, it doesn't take a donaghy or anyone else to bring to our attention that some games in the nba were just called with an agenda because we have our own eyes and we saw the bullsh!t ourselves.

[dafunkphenom]

All this has done is raised doubts. I've had a hard time sleeping the last few nights because I drifted back to previous predictions and bets and the countless hours I've spent watching games over the last 16 years.

This needs to go beforee congress as this may be the worst scandal in the history of professional sports if they prove NBA executives had any knowledge of this whatsoever.

Please somebody do something. I don't want to invest any more time watching the NBA if it's not on the up and up. I would have wasted enough of my life already.