The Bulls will regret their decision if they draft Rose over Beasley

[Kiddlovesnets]

Everyone knows that Derrick Rose is a nice player, but just like he himself admitted a month ago, Michael Beasley is a way better player than him. Besides, the Bulls already have a not-too-bad backcourt and they badly need a inside scorer like Beasley. In a word, Beasley fits better in the current Bulls team than Rose. As a consequence, I'd say the Bulls will regret their decision if they do take Rose over Beasley during this draft. Seriously, why do people think the Bulls would draft Rose? Just 'cause he's from Chicago?

[baseketball4life]

i agree, Beasley is far better right now, and is less of a gamble. If Rose turns into a Deron Williams (as experts are projecting) than Rose would be better than Beasley, but the odds of that happening are probably 50-50.

[DwadeOverLebron]

i agree most people will drill paxson for drafting rose... when the season starts, rose did say beasley was the better player now, and most people will agree with that... then december rolls around and rose gets better but miamis laughing at chicago cuz beasleys doing 20 and 8 while rose is doing 8 and 4, than febuary comes through and rose makes a couple of sportscenter dunks on numerous grills he might have a couple of 20 and 10 games under his belt while beasleys put up a couple of 30+ games, after the allstar break the bullies are in playoff contention... while miamis one out of the top 4 teams in the eastern conference, than april rolls around and this is when rose decides to live up to his potential not with #'s but with his composure during close down to the wire games and the bullies just squeak into the post season as a #7 seed and this is where rose blossoms into a beautifull rose he'll do damage in the playoffs similar to what dwade did his rookie year and they will become the hottest team in the league no one wants to face in the 1st round, when the bullies get knocked off EVERYBODY will be anticipating for next season yearning for more rose, and more rose, and this is when you will be like WOW!

remember deron williams his freshmen yr at illinjois? he was a walking tub of lard... now look at him now

keep in mind rose is only 19

bottom line is this, beasley will help you win now, and rose will help you win a championship later

[Kiddlovesnets]

keep in mind rose is only 19

bottom line is this, beasley will help you win now, and rose will help you win a championship later

Beasley is also 19 so why can't he keeps improving just like Rose?

[shaoyut]

beasly is better than rose he will probly be like a larmar odom or shawn marion

[Kiddlovesnets]

beasly is better than rose he will probly be like a larmar odom or shawn marion

If Beasley turns out to be merely another Lamar Odom then he's a bust...

[baseketball4life]

If Beasley turns out to be merely another Lamar Odom then he's a bust...
why is that?

[Kiddlovesnets]

why is that?

Michael Beasley is expected to be a 20+,10+ guy in his career and play tough basketball, which means that he should be far better than that Larmar Odom.

[new noise]

People are getting it severely twisted. Beasley won't be putting up 25 and 12 in the NBA the way he did at K-State. The kid dominated on a mediocre college team with no other legitimate stars, and in three or four years people will be all over him for doing nothing besides scoring, ala Carmelo.

Rose carried his team to the NCAA championship game, a few missed FT's away from the win, and made former scrubs like Chris Douglas-Roberts and Joey Dorsey look like first-round picks in the process.

It's not a contest. Potential franchise point guard vs. potential scoring champ who maybe gets 5 rebounds a game? I'm taking the first one and not looking back.

[Mateo]

Nothing against Rose, I just don't get why people are so down on Beasley. He had a better freshman year than Durant, and that's not even debatable, and people were drooling over Durant like he was the next MJ. But Beasley keeps getting called "next Derrick Coleman" and such.

[new noise]

Michael Beasley is expected to be a 20+,10+ guy in his career and play tough basketball, which means that he should be far better than that Larmar Odom.

That's laughable. PS if Lamar Odom-type numbers are going to be a disappointment, I feel terrible for the apparently unreal pressure being put on this kid.

[vmdv12]

Everyone knows that Derrick Rose is a nice player, but just like he himself admitted a month ago, Michael Beasley is a way better player than him. Besides, the Bulls already have a not-too-bad backcourt and they badly need a inside scorer like Beasley. In a word, Beasley fits better in the current Bulls team than Rose. As a consequence, I'd say the Bulls will regret their decision if they do take Rose over Beasley during this draft. Seriously, why do people think the Bulls would draft Rose? Just 'cause he's from Chicago?

People, like me, think the Bulls would draft Rose because he's good, not because he's from Chicago. You do realize that most teams in the NBA rank Rose top two in this draft right? Yes, the Bulls have a decent backcourt, but Rose would be the best player in the backcourt if they draft him. I think a trade will happen from the Bulls end, which will make the decision easier on who to draft. Beasley will be a beast...but so will Rose. They are totally different positions. It's like comparing Jordan to Olajuwon. Both great..but different positions. I can't see Rose being a bust...so I don't see how they will regret drafting Rose over Beasley, if that is what they do.

[knickballer]

Beasley is not gonna be a PF. He 6-7. He's more of a small foward

[BFRESH44]

People are getting it severely twisted. Beasley won't be putting up 25 and 12 in the NBA the way he did at K-State. The kid dominated on a mediocre college team with no other legitimate stars, and in three or four years people will be all over him for doing nothing besides scoring, ala Carmelo.

Rose carried his team to the NCAA championship game, a few missed FT's away from the win, and made former scrubs like Chris Douglas-Roberts and Joey Dorsey look like first-round picks in the process.


It's not a contest. Potential franchise point guard vs. potential scoring champ who maybe gets 5 rebounds a game? I'm taking the first one and not looking back.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about...:oldlol:

[Da KO King]

Both players in question are going to disappoint seeing as both are expected to be "beasts" at their positions. Both will be fine players but considering Rose is being touted as a "game changer" and Beasley as a potential "scoring champ" people will surely be let down by what really happens.

That said, if I was in charge of Chicago's draft I'd select Derrick Rose. Vinny Del Negro was hired on to coach with absolutely no coaching experience. I'd be more comfortable giving him an athletic guard and figuring out his philosophy than giving him an inside-outside player whose effectiveness is determined by matchups.

[wang4three]

I don't like Beasley in the prospect that he doesn't have a real position. His skills are not defined towards any role and he'll just be one of those tweener type players that'll be lost in playing the perimeter and playng in the post. I've realized I don't like those type of players and rarely see those type of players succeed immensely.

[mjbulls23]

I was leaning towards Beasley at first, but I'd have to agree with Da KO King that after the hiring of Vinny Del Negro I'd prefer a potential franchise PG with a higher ceiling to grow as a player IMO

[Crazy Style]

i agree, Beasley is far better right now, and is less of a gamble. If Rose turns into a Deron Williams (as experts are projecting) than Rose would be better than Beasley, but the odds of that happening are probably 50-50.

I'd take my chances on Rose he could be like a franchise player while Beasley wouldn't make everyone around them better as Rose would. There are no regrets drafting the best point gaurd in the draft and perhaps the only true point gaurd of the draft. Plus with Beasley's height he's more of a SF and the Bulls don't need that. A guy like Rose could really help the Bulls big guys excell and be a leader for many years. Him being from Chicago also adds excitment and motivation not only for himself, but also for the fans. So Rose is the way to go.

[Crazy Style]

I don't like Beasley in the prospect that he doesn't have a real position. His skills are not defined towards any role and he'll just be one of those tweener type players that'll be lost in playing the perimeter and playng in the post. I've realized I don't like those type of players and rarely see those type of players succeed immensely.

Exactly, while there aren't as many questions when it comes to Rose. In my oppinion he would be the smarter pick for the Bulls.

[Da KO King]

Exactly, while there aren't as many questions when it comes to Rose. In my oppinion he would be the smarter pick for the Bulls.
The only reason there are not as many questions about Derrick Rose is because he'd be a "better fit" with both Chicago and Miami than Mike Beasley. If the situation was reversed the weaknesses in Derrick Rose's game would be pointed out.

[JPR]

They're both superstars and future all stars. You can't go wrong with either one, that's why Stern put them at #1 overall. Rose will be better than Paul and Williams. He's more athletic and his potential has no limit.

Beasley is a beast but he does have character concerns and when you look into his eyes, you can see looney tunes playing. He has zero focus.

[VCMVP1551]

Michael Beasley is expected to be a 20+,10+ guy in his career and play tough basketball, which means that he should be far better than that Larmar Odom.

Beasley has a great chance to be 20-25 ppg scorer in the not so distant future but I doubt he ever averages close to 10 rpg.

[eeeeeebro]

Beasley is not gonna be a PF. He 6-7. He's more of a small foward
If you watch mcdonalds slam dunk contest he damn near dunks the ball between the legs from the free throw line. 3 inches isnt going to hurt him any. He proved in college he is the best damn rebounder there is. HE also scored 3rd best in college without getting many passes. I watched all of Kstate games that point guard pollin is a damn ball hog and wasnt skilled enough to get the ball to beasley efficiently. The nba will be a different matter beasley will get the ball and he will dominate on a regular basis. He is 19 he can still grow too. the bulls dont need a point guard they need a scorer. ben gordon is a short midget that can score but when a team wants to shut him down they can. With beasley we will have someone to actualy go to. The bulls do not need Rose that bad what they realy need is to make some trades and get a PG that way.

[eeeeeebro]

what does beasley have to make him dominant.

Strength
Shooting skills (3 point shooter)
good dribbles.
Versitile he can play PF if needed
athletic this guy gots tyrus thomas beat
Drive - he wants to be the best in all of NBA

I know we need the PG but realy we need beasley it would make hinrichs job easier and ben gordons job easier. To tell the truth hinrich and gordon should be shipped out so sefelosha and hughs can take over as starters.

[JPR]

Everyone knows that Derrick Rose is a nice player, but just like he himself admitted a month ago, Michael Beasley is a way better player than him. Besides, the Bulls already have a not-too-bad backcourt and they badly need a inside scorer like Beasley. In a word, Beasley fits better in the current Bulls team than Rose. As a consequence, I'd say the Bulls will regret their decision if they do take Rose over Beasley during this draft. Seriously, why do people think the Bulls would draft Rose? Just 'cause he's from Chicago?

Just cuz he's from Chicago doesn't mean anything. Half the players in the league are from Chitown from Wade to Finley.

The reason why Rose has the advantage is because the league has made the NBA a pu$$y league. And the no contact favors PG's. That's why with the new wave NBA rules, it makes sense to get that dynamic PG.

[JPR]

i agree, Beasley is far better right now, and is less of a gamble. If Rose turns into a Deron Williams (as experts are projecting) than Rose would be better than Beasley, but the odds of that happening are probably 50-50.

How could you say a player with more character issues is less of a gamble? that doesn't make any sense. he's got red flags all over the place. anybody who goes to 7 high schools in 4 years has issues.

[RandomBalla55]

People are getting it severely twisted. Beasley won't be putting up 25 and 12 in the NBA the way he did at K-State. The kid dominated on a mediocre college team with no other legitimate stars, and in three or four years people will be all over him for doing nothing besides scoring, ala Carmelo.

Rose carried his team to the NCAA championship game, a few missed FT's away from the win, and made former scrubs like Chris Douglas-Roberts and Joey Dorsey look like first-round picks in the process.

It's not a contest. Potential franchise point guard vs. potential scoring champ who maybe gets 5 rebounds a game? I'm taking the first one and not looking back.

:oldlol: :oldlol:

I can tell you didn't watch college basketball that much. CDR and Dorsey weren't scrubs before Rose came in. They were pretty good, sir.

Nevermind, BFresh already got you there.

[Chicago76]

The only reason there are not as many questions about Derrick Rose is because he'd be a "better fit" with both Chicago and Miami than Mike Beasley. If the situation was reversed the weaknesses in Derrick Rose's game would be pointed out.

How do you figure Rose is a better fit for Chicago? Hinrich didn't light it up last year, but he's a better than average NBA PG. Where the Bulls need help is frontcourt scoring from about anywhere--midrange, the high post, the low post. They need one guy who can create his own shot Beasley gives you that.

[JPR]

. the bulls dont need a point guard they need a scorer. ben gordon is a short midget that can score but when a team wants to shut him down they can. With beasley we will have someone to actualy go to. The bulls do not need Rose that bad what they realy need is to make some trades and get a PG that way.

That's the thing players like BG and Deng will realize their potential playing next to Derrick Rose who has insane play making ability and vision. You can't go off of the past with players like Gordon and Deng when you're talking about adding the best PG in the NBA Draft to the mix. It changes everything!

[Da KO King]

How do you figure Rose is a better fit for Chicago? Hinrich didn't light it up last year, but he's a better than average NBA PG. Where the Bulls need help is frontcourt scoring from about anywhere--midrange, the high post, the low post. They need one guy who can create his own shot Beasley gives you that.
Beasley's scoring ability will largely depend on matchups. His area of effectiveness will be determined by whether or not the player guarding him is taller or shorter than he is. Rose's responsibilities will not change regardless of opponent.

With a brand new head coach with no coaching experience at all the stability that comes from having a player perform the same job every game is invaluable.

[JPR]

Beasley's scoring ability will largely depend on matchups. His area of effectiveness will be determined by whether or not the player guarding him is taller or shorter than he is. Rose's responsibilities will not change regardless of opponent.

With a brand new head coach with no coaching experience at all the stability that comes from having a player perform the same job every game is invaluable.

Plus, Chicago already has a potentially great rotation of Small Forwards in:

Deng
Nocioni
Sefolosha

there's no room for another 6 foot 7 player.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Plus, Chicago already has a potentially great rotation of Small Forwards in:

Deng
Nocioni
Sefolosha

there's no room for another 6 foot 7 player.

Do I need to explain it again that Michael Beasley is a POWER Forward?

[JPR]

Do I need to explain it again that Michael Beasley is a POWER Forward?

at 6 foot 7...come on now. He's a tweener. Chicago already has enough of those. It's Rose all day.

[DwadeOverLebron]

in response to beasley being 19 and why he doesn't have the potential to be great... i am very high on beasley also, if oden durant and beasley all came out at the same time im taking beasley durant then oden in that order, thats how high i am on beasley, which should tell you how high i am on rose, if you were to ask me who im taking in january im sayin beasley all the way, but what rose did in the tournament and watching his growth from the regular season to the tournament vs the likes of msu, texas, ucla, kansas?!? WHAT?!? are you kidding me? the kid was a pro playing against college kids, i thought and still do think dj augustine is a STUD! but what rose did to him and texas was breath taking

back to beasley, he's gonna do 22 and 8 as a rookie, but your getting what you have, lets face it i've seen plenty of kstate games to know beasleys a very good athlete but its not off the charts good like amare, garnett, marion, hell i think tyrus has more athletic ability in terms of raw natural athleticism, beasley plays more with his instinct and iq, which he happened to develop at an earlier age than any of his peers, but in terms of growth i just don't see him being that much better than what he is, he reminds me of bernard king a little bit, bernard was just athletic enough, but he had a good j and had a good feel for the game, thats how beasley plays

roses potential could be a top 3 pg in the league, i just don't see beasley as a top 3 pf in the league, also how many allstar pf's do you see avialable or on the market for trades? compared to allstar pg's? a great proven pg always gets locked up immediately!

bulls are grabbin rose and the only thing they'll regret about it is... not giving beasley enough attention, just to mess wit riley, hey you gotta get a competetive advantage in this league whether its minoot or not, that coulda screwed miamis draft process, just like how riley did to pax with dwade, that was paxs first season as gm and riley just tooled him and schooled him about synthetic deception to gain a competetive advantage... i will never forget about that day of that draft.

[Younggrease]

I dont like taking either player as a number 1 really...I would attempt to trade down and dangle Rose over someone who thinks he is better then he is...

I dont think either player is gonna be elite at their position...

[eeeeeebro]

it will be a shame if they dont draft beasley. miami dont even want rose they want mayo and rightfuly he wants to be like kobe but could fall short and be wades best sidekick in years.

[Da KO King]

it will be a shame if they dont draft beasley. miami dont even want rose they want mayo and rightfuly he wants to be like kobe but could fall short and be wades best sidekick in years.
OJ Mayo has no interest in being Kobe Bryant. Mayo has turned his attention to being a PG at the NBA level and has been modeling his game after Deron Williams.

[starface]

Do I need to explain it again that Michael Beasley is a POWER Forward?

Dude lineups with small powerforwards are always doomed to fail. Look at the Suns when Marion was a PF, the Magic with 'SHard as a PF, even the Lakers with Odom as a PF. I mean that was one of the main reasons the Celtics won that series, their frontcourt size was just too much for the Lakers. Watch what happens when Bynum comes back and Pau slides to PF and Odom goes to SF. On an ideal team, Beasley is a SF

[starface]

I dont like taking either player as a number 1 really...I would attempt to trade down and dangle Rose over someone who thinks he is better then he is...

I dont think either player is gonna be elite at their position...

Yeah that's how I feel too. Not only am I skeptical about each of them as a #1 overall pick, but especially for Chicago who just gave Hinrich an extension, and has a 22 year old Deng. I really think they should try to trade out, and if worst came to worst, I wouldn't blame them for taking OJ Mayo with the first pick. But I'd call around and see if anyone in that 2-10 range wants to offer up a young big with some potential in order to swap places

[dak121]

Hinrich and Deng are not the kind of player's you make concessions towards. If the guy that Paxson wants plays one of their positions take him. No one on the Bulls is currently better than average.

[fos]

[QUOTE=eeeeeebro]what does beasley have to make him dominant.

Strength
Shooting skills (3 point shooter)
good dribbles.
Versitile he can play PF if needed
athletic this guy gots tyrus thomas beat
Drive - he wants to be the best in all of NBA

Kevin Love bested him in every category at the predraft workouts. Kevin ****ING Love.

[Chicago76]

Beasley's scoring ability will largely depend on matchups. His area of effectiveness will be determined by whether or not the player guarding him is taller or shorter than he is. Rose's responsibilities will not change regardless of opponent.

With a brand new head coach with no coaching experience at all the stability that comes from having a player perform the same job every game is invaluable.

Try again. You know who else's responsibilities changed depending upon the opponent?

Charles Barkley.

As a matter of fact, being able to play multiple roles is a strength, not a weakness.

Beasley has a good midrange game. He can get to the basket. He wasn't asked to rebound much because he always had the ball in his hands at K-State. Someone else mentioned they have a potentially great SF lineup in Sefalosha, Nocioni, etc. Even if the guy bombs, he will be significantly better at SF than Danny Granger. And DG is far superior to anything the Bulls have at the position. And this overlooks the fact that Beasley will be able to play significant minutes at PF. He's not exactly another Marcus Fizer.

The bottom line is that the Bulls need a scorer. Not another player who is limited offensively. This (and their defense going back to normal) are the reasons they've plateaued. If you were to pick best fits in the league for Rose, the Bulls would easily be in the bottom 10.

[Chicago76]

Hinrich and Deng are not the kind of player's you make concessions towards. If the guy that Paxson wants plays one of their positions take him. No one on the Bulls is currently better than average.

Concessions? If Hinrich isn't the kind of guy you make concessions to, what do you call his contract?

The Bulls have a lot of players who are average or better than average for their roles, but they don't have a guy who can take a larger portion of the offensive burden. That is, they have the market cornered on the Deng, Hughes, Hinrichs, Goodens, and Gordons of the world. These guys are generally efficient scorers. They just need someone to draw double teams.

[danumber88]

If bulls take Beasley, Heat should draft Mayo

mayo + wade = nasty

[GOBB]

but he does have character concerns and when you look into his eyes, you can see looney tunes playing. He has zero focus.

What character issues? Geeze you make up crap about players that dont exist.

[GOBB]

at 6 foot 7...come on now. He's a tweener. Chicago already has enough of those. It's Rose all day.

He's not 6'7.

[Da KO King]

..... If you were to pick best fits in the league for Rose, the Bulls would easily be in the bottom 10.
And if the same was done for Mike Beasley the Bulls would be in the bottom five.

My initial comment was about who between Mike Beasley and Derrick Rose was a better fit. Never said anything about either guy being a GOOD fit.

[Chicago76]

And if the same was done for Mike Beasley the Bulls would be in the bottom five.

My initial comment was about who between Mike Beasley and Derrick Rose was a better fit. Never said anything about either guy being a GOOD fit.

And that's what you need to come to grips with. The Bulls have a far more adequate PG than they do anyone who can score with the shot clock winding down...the former Rose would provide...the latter Beasley.

It's pretty obvious to anyone who has seen them more than a couple of times over the last two or three seasons.

[dhenk]

And that's what you need to come to grips with. The Bulls have a far more adequate PG than they do anyone who can score with the shot clock winding down...the former Rose would provide...the latter Beasley.

It's pretty obvious to anyone who has seen them more than a couple of times over the last two or three seasons.

...or who didn

[Da KO King]

And that's what you need to come to grips with. The Bulls have a far more adequate PG than they do anyone who can score with the shot clock winding down...the former Rose would provide...the latter Beasley.

It's pretty obvious to anyone who has seen them more than a couple of times over the last two or three seasons.
Re-read my postings in this thread and see if you can finally understand my point because you still have not gotten what I've been saying.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1951384&postcount=15
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1951542&postcount=20
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1951799&postcount=30
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1952417&postcount=47


Let me summarize my point through out this thread, the Chicago Bulls are a bad fit for both players. However, the Bulls are less of a bad fit for Derrick Rose.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Everyone knows that Derrick Rose is a nice player, but just like he himself admitted a month ago, Michael Beasley is a way better player than him. Besides, the Bulls already have a not-too-bad backcourt and they badly need a inside scorer like Beasley. In a word, Beasley fits better in the current Bulls team than Rose. As a consequence, I'd say the Bulls will regret their decision if they do take Rose over Beasley during this draft. Seriously, why do people think the Bulls would draft Rose? Just 'cause he's from Chicago?

No, the Bulls have a terrible back court with Hinrich, Hughes, Gordon and Sefolosha. If they draft Rose they can use Hughes, re-sign Gordon and Hinrich and try and trade for a big man like Elton Brand. Even if they don't, if Rose can play up to his potential and be nearly as good as Chris Paul I think he turns Sefolosha, Tyrus Thomas, Deng, Noah and even Gordon into all-star kind of players.

[dak121]

Hinrich and Ben Wallace were neck and neck for worst Bulls player of the season. And everyone on that team sucked.

[Chicago76]

[QUOTE=dhenk]...or who didn

[aznboy2k2]

I'm going to be disappointed if the Bulls draft Rose over Beasley. They need help on the lowpost not another god damn PG.

[Gundress]

Yeah, I agree with you. Bulls have too many pg/sgs.

Do you know who Michael Beasley reminded me of......Boozer.

[Crazy Style]

Both players in question are going to disappoint seeing as both are expected to be "beasts" at their positions. Both will be fine players but considering Rose is being touted as a "game changer" and Beasley as a potential "scoring champ" people will surely be let down by what really happens.

That said, if I was in charge of Chicago's draft I'd select Derrick Rose. Vinny Del Negro was hired on to coach with absolutely no coaching experience. I'd be more comfortable giving him an athletic guard and figuring out his philosophy than giving him an inside-outside player whose effectiveness is determined by matchups.

Great post. Rose would fit better with the Bulls situation. Also it's much harder to land an elite PG while aquiring a solid big man is more realistic and plus there should be a few available in the offseason anyway. A true point gaurd like Rose don't come around often and the Bulls could be set at that position for many years.

[Crazy Style]

Yeah, I agree with you. Bulls have too many pg/sgs.

Do you know who Michael Beasley reminded me of......Boozer.

So what if they have too many gaurds at the moment that's just more pieces for a trade.

If Beasley was like Boozer than the outlook on him would be totally different and believe me a majority would pick him over Rose, but that's not the case. Since I heard he wasn't even 6'8" that totally made me not want Beasley. Plus I'm comfortable with the Bulls developing frontcourt and how Rose could make them really good soon.

[bdreason]

So what if they have too many gaurds at the moment that's just more pieces for a trade.

If Beasley was like Boozer than the outlook on him would be totally different and believe me a majority would pick him over Rose, but that's not the case. Since I heard he wasn't even 6'8" that totally made me not want Beasley. Plus I'm comfortable with the Bulls developing frontcourt and how Rose could make them really good soon.

Beasley will be better than Boozer. He's better at everything except for rebounding, which can be easily developed. Did everyone forget Beasley just beat Durants historic College #'s playing at the PF position?! Beasley's fundamentals at this stage are WAY better than Durants were.


If they draft Rose then Hinrich has to be moved. They already pay Hinrich like a franchise PG.

[eeeeeebro]

well i got news for you all rose didnt practice for heat so our dreams of beasley can be squashed now.

[eeeeeebro]

hell mayo would even be a good fit on the bulls it could get rid of gordan's non dribbling ass. i wish there was a youtube film of how many times gordan fell down or lost the ball in clutch situations.

[holabuster]

Has everyone forgotten? The Bulls were a damn good team a year ago. Nearly everyone was counting on the Bulls to be great contenders for a long time and to push even further into the playoffs. The players do NOT suck. They're NOT below average. In fact, I still think Hinrich and Deng are great players and will continue to improve.

Now what was the problem? Team chemistry and lack of a cohesive coaching presence. A low-post, score-first mentality player would be great, but what the Bulls really need is someone to restore team unity and help bring out everyone's A game. Rose is the man to do that.

For a stretch the seaon before last, the Bulls were torching everyone on threes and taking it to the hole quite nicely. There was great sharing of the ball, lots of drive and dishing, and solid defense. I think the Bulls should maintain their core and have Rose to keep everyone at their best, be the Chris Paul to the Bulls. THEN, when the occasion comes, fill in the missing piece by trading for a big man.

My Ideal Lineup:
PG: Rose
SG: Hinrich
SF: Deng
PF: Gooden
C: Noah

Eventually, we should get a better low post presence, but that isn't what's most important now.

Rose all the way.

[VCMVP1551]

He's not 6'7.

He was just measured 3 weeks ago by doctors hired by the NBA at 6 foot 7 flat.

[GOBB]

He was just measured 3 weeks ago by doctors hired by the NBA at 6 foot 7 flat.


When the results were released, Beasley’s official height was basically in the middle of those two numbers. He measured 6-foot-7 without shoes and 6-foot-8 1/4 with shoes on. Beasley’s wingspan was measured as a tad more than 7-feet and his standing reach was 8-foot-11.

Try again :applause:

[VCMVP1551]

Try again :applause:

The link you posted said 6'7" without shoes. You just shot yourself in the foot. Saying he's not 6'7" is different than saying he's not 6'7" in shoes. You should have been more specific.

[GOBB]

The link you posted said 6'7" without shoes. You just shot yourself in the foot. Saying he's not 6'7" is different than saying he's not 6'7" in shoes. You should have been more specific.

Shot myself in the foot? :roll: Last I checked NBA players play with SHOES. So what relevance does his height without them have? Absolutely NONE. Which is why this entire "He's 6'7" is BS.

Like I said...TRY AGAIN.

[VCMVP1551]

Shot myself in the foot? :roll: Last I checked NBA players play with SHOES.

I walk down the street with shoes too, doesn't mean that I'll say I'm 5'9" if someone asks which would be my height in shoes. If someone asks I'll say almost 5'8". Listing any height other than a players height in their barefeet or socks is misleading because a persons height doesn't include the additional height added by shoes. Doe NFL players list height in cleats and helmets? They play in both of those but last I checked they are listed at their real heights.

You also said he's not 6'7" which is in correct because he is 6'7" in atleast one way. I go by barefoot heights and I have good reasons why.


So what relevance does his height without them have? Absolutely NONE. Which is why this entire "He's 6'7" is BS.

It is relevant because some players are listed at their barefoot heights.

The following heights were recorded at the pre-draft camp

Kevin Durant 6'9" w/o shoes, 6'10.25" w/ shoes, listed 6'9"
Chris Bosh 6'10.25" w/o shoes, 6'11.5" w/ shoes, listed 6'10"
Elton Brand 6'8.25" w/o shoes, 6'9.5" w/ shoes, listed 6'8"
Kevin Garnett 6'11" w/o shoes, listed 6'11"
Grant Hill 6'8" w/o shoes, listed 6'8"
Shaq 7'1" w/o shoes, listed 7'1"

Those are just a few examples. Then you factor in that Bosh says he's now 6'11" and KG says he's 6'11 3/4" so that means both are listed an inch under their barefoot height.

So yes barefoot heights are relevant because many players are listed at those heights aswell.

[GOBB]

You're trying too hard here. Just admit when Beasley plays the game he isnt 6'7. The poster implied Beasley is only 6'7. He is wrong. If you arent gonna draft a guy based on his height WITHOUT SHOES you are an idiot. Again NBA players PLAY with thier SHOES ON. The height listed without is irrelevant as hell.

Nice try tho.

[VCMVP1551]

You're trying too hard here. Just admit when Beasley plays the game he isnt 6'7. The poster implied Beasley is only 6'7. He is wrong. If you arent gonna draft a guy based on his height WITHOUT SHOES you are an idiot. Again NBA players PLAY with thier SHOES ON. The height listed without is irrelevant as hell.

Nice try tho.

If height without shoes was irrelevant than the NBA wouldn't let guys like Shaq, Elton Brand and Kevin Durant be listed at that height.

Beasley is as much 6'8" when he's on the court as I am 5'9" when i walk down the street. Considering I wear workboots at work does that mean I'm 5'10" when I'm at work? I just don't get it. So if you mean if Beasley was stopped while he was on the court and measured then yes he wouldn't be only 6'7". If that's all that matters though then Shaq would be called 7'3" and Durant would be called 6'10" while Garnett is 7'1" and Bosh is over 7 feet then.

NFL players wear shoes too and they wear helmets which also add height but there is a reason they aren't measured in both of those and that's because someones real height is measured in their bare feet.

I can't figure it out, height shouldn't be subjective.

[luigi>mario]

This all seems to be about height, which is an issue, more important than some say, less than others say.

Fact, Beasly is smaller than we thought.
It didn't bother his game much in College.
It isn't foolish to ask if that will translate to the bigger NBA game.

So that is the question.
Defensively he isn't going to take Duncan, Garnet, or any other oversized PF by himself. Offensively he should be able to still get what he wants.

We all want the prototypical franchise big man who plays both ends (Hakeem, DRob, Duncan, Garnet, Howard, etc...). Beasley probably isn't that player because of his height. However, just because he won't be IMO, doesn't mean he isn't a smart pick. If I make that choice for Chicago, I take Beasly.

[GOBB]

If height without shoes was irrelevant than the NBA wouldn't let guys like Shaq, Elton Brand and Kevin Durant be listed at that height.

Who cares? Its the 40 time in the NFL. Game speed, how fast you are with pads on arent measured in the 40. No one runs vertically untouched in the NFL. Yet people make a big deal over it. You care about height without shoes. I dont because it has no effect when plays the game on the court WITH shoes.


Beasley is as much 6'8" when he's on the court as I am 5'9" when i walk down the street. Considering I wear workboots at work does that mean I'm 5'10" when I'm at work? I just don't get it. So if you mean if Beasley was stopped while he was on the court and measured then yes he wouldn't be only 6'7". If that's all that matters though then Shaq would be called 7'3" and Durant would be called 6'10" while Garnett is 7'1" and Bosh is over 7 feet then.

He's 6'8 1/4. Not 6'7.


NFL players wear shoes too and they wear helmets which also add height but there is a reason they aren't measured in both of those and that's because someones real height is measured in their bare feet.

Helmets add height? Wow you are Mr. Irrelevant. Stop trying so hard bruh.


I can't figure it out, height shouldn't be subjective.

He's 6'8

[VCMVP1551]

Who cares? Its the 40 time in the NFL. Game speed, how fast you are with pads on arent measured in the 40. No one runs vertically untouched in the NFL. Yet people make a big deal over it. You care about height without shoes. I dont because it has no effect when plays the game on the court WITH shoes.

The problem is with the in shoes measurement players show up to the pre-draft camp with shoes bigger than they actually play in like Spencer Hawes shoes that add 2 1/4 inches or Kevin Love's that add 1 3/4 inches.

You can count height with shoes, that's fine...many people do that. I consider a players height the height they measure without shoes.

There is a reason the pre-draft camp didn't add the in shoes measurement until the late 90's.

And answer this. If height without shoes are irrelevant then why is Shaq listed 7'1", Brand listed 6'8" and Durant listed 6'9"?




He's 6'8 1/4. Not 6'7.

Yes he's 6-8 1/4" but in shoes. To say he's not 6'7" isn't correct though because he was measured at that height and it's a documented fact.


Helmets add height? Wow you are Mr. Irrelevant. Stop trying so hard bruh.

They do, if you're only talking about height that contributes to the sport then they should just measure standing reach in basketball.



He's 6'8

Yes, in shoes...his actual height is 6'7" though.

[GOBB]

This all seems to be about height, which is an issue, more important than some say, less than others say.

Fact, Beasly is smaller than we thought.
It didn't bother his game much in College.
It isn't foolish to ask if that will translate to the bigger NBA game.

So that is the question.
Defensively he isn't going to take Duncan, Garnet, or any other oversized PF by himself. Offensively he should be able to still get what he wants.

We all want the prototypical franchise big man who plays both ends (Hakeem, DRob, Duncan, Garnet, Howard, etc...). Beasley probably isn't that player because of his height. However, just because he won't be IMO, doesn't mean he isn't a smart pick. If I make that choice for Chicago, I take Beasly.

What did you think Beasley was? If anything he was listed 6'9 at best. 6'8 in other places. He measured 6'8 1/4, so he is 3/4 off from what was said he was. I mean what is Shaqs weight? You tell me the listed weight...he damn sure isnt that. Just like alot of NBA players. People make too big of a deal over inches when in the NBA? Its not about traditional positions + traditional heights. You dont have to be 6'10 to be a PF or 7'0+ to be a Center. SF dont have to be 6'6-6'7 and SG dont have to be 6'5-6'6. Its about putting the best 5 on the court and executing the gameplan. Beasley could have measured without shoes 6'9. Doesnt mean he will be an elite PF given his friggin height. Dude back to the basket game needs work. When he scored in college I dont recall many games where he got it downlow and schooled mofos.

How tall is Jamison? Has a similar inside-outside game like Beasley. He's played PF and SF. Same with Shawn Marion who is listed at 6'7. There are other measurements that can counter those worried about inches. At the end, can they play? I dont see Beasley height being much of a big deal. Again if he were listed without shoes at 6'9...he still couldnt handle those PFs you listed. And his back to the basket game still would need improvement.

[GOBB]

And answer this. If height without shoes are irrelevant then why is Shaq listed 7'1", Brand listed 6'8" and Durant listed 6'9"?

I dont know and really never cared. I just dont understand the usage of height without shoes when they make a living in them. And showing up with shoes to make your height seem bigger? Funny. If the NBA season starts and Beasley is on the court. I'm pretty sure whatever sneakers he wears adds inches making him not 6'7.

At the end of the day does that 1 inch 1/4 really make a difference? No.

6'7, 6'8, 6'9...i dont think Beasley being either height matters. Because that inch or two doesnt help his game. Thats why I argue the height thing with Beasley. Not like if he was 6'8, 6'9 without shoes it helps his game. Just makes it look nice on "paper" for people whose perception get aroused over it. :confusedshrug:



Yes he's 6-8 1/4" but in shoes.

That is all that matters. We're talkin basketball....if you mention height it has to be in regards to him IN SHOES. Otherwise its irrelevant and good for medical checkups. But when me, you and others talk basketball? You use the height he balls in.


We're arguing over a f*cking inch. Think we reached the point of overkill. He's 6'7 to you, he's 6'8 to me, he's a potential bust to someone else, he is a stud muffin to another. Blah

[Kebab Stall]

Beasley will most likely get listed as 6'7. Who cares if he's an inch taller than 6'7 when he is playing, the rest of the NBA are going to be an inch taller because they are also wearing shoes, so that extra inch becomes meaningless anyway.

[VCMVP1551]

How tall is Jamison? Has a similar inside-outside game like Beasley. He's played PF and SF. Same with Shawn Marion who is listed at 6'7.

Jamison was measured 6-7 3/4 so probably 6-9 in shoes and Marion was measured at 6-6 1/2 without shoes and 6-7 3/4 in them.

So both are similar in size but Jamison has a much more polished post game, Marion is more athletic and both are better rebounders especially Marion.

I don't think Beasley can make up for being undersized at the PF position because he just doesn't seem to play that much above his size. I think he'll make a great SF and he can use his size advantage in the post at that position.


At the end of the day does that 1 inch 1/4 really make a difference? No.

Then why start the argument in the first place?



That is all that matters. We're talkin basketball....if you mention height it has to be in regards to him IN SHOES. Otherwise its irrelevant and good for medical checkups. But when me, you and others talk basketball? You use the height he balls in.

A player is measured at 2 heights and NBA players can choose if they want to be listed in shoes or without shoes. So you can go by in shoes height and I can go by height without shoes. I won't correct you if you call someone their height in shoes if you don't correct me for referring to a players height without shoes. It's an easy way to avoid both of us wasting our time.


We're arguing over a f*cking inch. Think we reached the point of overkill. He's 6'7 to you, he's 6'8 to me, he's a potential bust to someone else, he is a stud muffin to another. Blah

Yeah so just don't correct me if I call him 6'7" and I won't correct you if you call him 6'8".

[GOBB]

Jamison was measured 6-7 3/4 so probably 6-9 in shoes and Marion was measured at 6-6 1/2 without shoes and 6-7 3/4 in them.

Funny how they arent listed by thier heights without shoes. :oldlol:


Then why start the argument in the first place?

Because you wanted to give me height without shoes. Holds no relevance with me. Thus the argument began.

[VCMVP1551]

Funny how they arent listed by thier heights without shoes. :oldlol:

Actually Marion is listed closer to his height without shoes. :roll: His height in shoes would be 6'8".




Because you wanted to give me height without shoes. Holds no relevance with me. Thus the argument began.

If the inch doesn't matter then why start the argument?

[GOBB]

If the inch doesn't matter then why start the argument?

Because someone ASSumed it was a problem "He's only 6'7" as one of thier reasons not to draft him.

[VCMVP1551]

Because someone ASSumed it was a problem "He's only 6'7" as one of thier reasons not to draft him.

I agree it's dumb to say he's 6'7" but then assume for example everyone else is at their barefoot height.

Keep in mind though I know most of the heights without shoes anyway so I'm not looking at him at 6'7" the way most people do. I know he's only an inch or 2 below average size for a PF. He just doesn't seem to play any bigger than his height that's the problem.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Bump!

[Kiddlovesnets]

Heat 94-70 Bulls
Michael Beasley ---- 28 pts, 9 reb on 9-21 shooting
Derrick Rose ---- 10 pts, 4 ast, 5 to on 3-8 shooting

[statman32]

Bump!
Why?

You think the Bulls are gonna regret there decision b/c of 1 poor summer league game? :roll:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Why?

You think the Bulls are gonna regret there decision b/c of 1 poor summer league game? :roll:

I don't mean Derrick Rose is done. He's still gonna improve into a good PG but Beasley is playing like the GOAT! I believe there's nothing impossible for this guy and he's gonna shock the entire NBA very soon. Remember even the pick of Olajuwon is considered a wrong decision since there was a better player available from that draft class -- Michael Jordan.

[ConanRulesNBC]

It's summer league. Wait until the end of the next season before you say who's the better player. Beasley right now will come in and dominate but Rose will be the better player in a few seasons, IMO.

[plowking]

It's summer league. Wait until the end of the next season before you say who's the better player. Beasley right now will come in and dominate but Rose will be the better player in a few seasons, IMO.

Why couldn't Rose do the same?

[gts]

first let me say i'd have picked beasley over rose every day of the week and twice on draft day if it had been up to me...
but dam guys ...lol
let these guys get some time under their belts before they are judged on who's going to have the better season...
point gaurds are going to score less and turn the ball over more if they are playing the position correctly, they are handling the ball nearly every time down the floor and responsible for getting it into the beasleys of this world hands...
comparing stats of rookies in summer league that play two completly different positions is ridiculous

[Mateo]

What's really shocking is that people were so down on Beasley because of unspecific "character issues" even though he had one of the best freshman years of all time and a better freshman year than the media darling Kevin Durant.

[Collie]

Beasley played better, but people tend to overreact based on summer league. Morrison arguably played better than Brandon Roy in SL, and Ostertag beasted Duncan. Deron looked like **** in SL too.

[ukballer]

Logging on this morning I knew one philistine would do something like this. Pathetic.

Rose wasn't aggressive enough in that game, too tentative. He gave up the ball to his teamates far too easily, and the few times he did make an aggressive move, he constantly gave his defender fits and earn't himself some free throws virtually every time. I'm looking to him to take over games offensively.

Why the hell are we even comparing a PG and a SF/PF if thats what he's known as?

Rose will obviously have more turnovers as he'll have the ball in his hand a lot of the time. Distributors will usually turn it over more, thats a given, ANY half competent basketball fan should know that.

Give the kid time, it wasn't like it was a disaster, he looked much more assured in the 2nd half anyway.

Seriously, some of these idiots who bump up moronic threads...

[72-10]

People are getting it severely twisted. Beasley won't be putting up 25 and 12 in the NBA the way he did at K-State. The kid dominated on a mediocre college team with no other legitimate stars, and in three or four years people will be all over him for doing nothing besides scoring, ala Carmelo.

Rose carried his team to the NCAA championship game, a few missed FT's away from the win, and made former scrubs like Chris Douglas-Roberts and Joey Dorsey look like first-round picks in the process.

It's not a contest. Potential franchise point guard vs. potential scoring champ who maybe gets 5 rebounds a game? I'm taking the first one and not looking back.

you took the words out of my mouth:applause:

[72-10]

I don't mean Derrick Rose is done. He's still gonna improve into a good PG but Beasley is playing like the GOAT! I believe there's nothing impossible for this guy and he's gonna shock the entire NBA very soon. Remember even the pick of Olajuwon is considered a wrong decision since there was a better player available from that draft class -- Michael Jordan.

Boldface: Wow, maybe that means he'll be able to play defense some day.

Italics: Michael Jordan is a unique player in the history of basketball. He's not allowed to be used as an example. Yes, of course, the #2 or #3 pick sometimes turns out better than the top one, but what do think you're inferring? Michael Beasley ain't Michael Jordan.

Get a grip kid. 9-21 shooting in the post and you're saying he's playing like the GOAT?:confusedshrug:

[Inspector Rick]

I don't mean Derrick Rose is done. He's still gonna improve into a good PG but Beasley is playing like the GOAT! I believe there's nothing impossible for this guy and he's gonna shock the entire NBA very soon. Remember even the pick of Olajuwon is considered a wrong decision since there was a better player available from that draft class -- Michael Jordan.
Rico - "Yeah, dont you ever metaphorically speak like that again."

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2007/gallery/hot_rod/hot_rod3.jpg

[brandonislegend]

I don't mean Derrick Rose is done. He's still gonna improve into a good PG but Beasley is playing like the GOAT! I believe there's nothing impossible for this guy and he's gonna shock the entire NBA very soon. Remember even the pick of Olajuwon is considered a wrong decision since there was a better player available from that draft class -- Michael Jordan.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

:cheers:

[fos]

I wasn't sold on either but Rose worries me more because of his predraft measurables... He's a pg with bad agility... He doesn't seem to be a very good passer either and ok scorer...

[Collie]

Durant and Oden had bad SL's last year too IIRC - Oden with foul troubles and Durant with terrible percentages.

[EllisGW]

I don't mean Derrick Rose is done. He's still gonna improve into a good PG but Beasley is playing like the GOAT! I believe there's nothing impossible for this guy and he's gonna shock the entire NBA very soon. Remember even the pick of Olajuwon is considered a wrong decision since there was a better player available from that draft class -- Michael Jordan.


Plz dont ever talk about basketball again.

[lilojmayo]

you took the words out of my mouth:applause:

well we just saw what beasley can do 28pts 9reb in 2 quarters and rose 5 turnovers in 2 quarters you tell me who you want on ur team lol my dad just told me to tell Chicago thanks for the early christmas present he said he wants to c the Heat and Celtics in the conference finals

[EllisGW]

rose is the obv choice and its really not that close.

[nicktheman13]

liloj just has me cracking up.

[Go Getter]

Lol@this thread.

NOTES:

-kiddlovesnets is a horrible evaluator of talent
-someone said Rose has agility issues:roll:
-my boy eeeeebro was wrong also but he's a Bulls fan so he gets a pass:cheers:
-lilojmayo with the comedy...I see he gets it from his pops, lol [no offense]
-this thread has fail written all over it [so far].
-Beasley still has a chance to be a great player although as a Bulls fan I would be flaming mad if we drafted Beasley.

[Blue.Legend]

Hind sight is a b1tch...

Never know what you are going to get from the draft. Rose turned out to be phenomenal for Chicago and became the face of their franchise while Beasley is well... average at best

First few post got me laughing, until I saw the date.

[InspiredLebowski]

Scans thread to make sure I didn't say anything stupid...

Seriously though, dumb as kiddlovesnets is, around draft time it isn't like this was some outlandish statement. I know I thought Super Cool Beas was going to be a pretty quick 20/10.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

If bulls take Beasley, Heat should draft Mayo

mayo + wade = nasty
:applause:

What i got out of this thread. Beasley was the most overrated prospect other than Greg Oden.

Derrick Rose very underrated, but still hasn't translated into W's in the weak east.

OJ Mayo always had big time potential, just hasn't tap into yet.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

well we just saw what beasley can do 28pts 9reb in 2 quarters and rose 5 turnovers in 2 quarters you tell me who you want on ur team lol my dad just told me to tell Chicago thanks for the early christmas present he said he wants to c the Heat and Celtics in the conference finals

I want the 6'4 Mamba

[Andrei89]

:applause:

What i got out of this thread. Beasley was the most overrated prospect other than Greg Oden.

Derrick Rose very underrated, but still hasn't translated into W's in the weak east.

OJ Mayo always had big time potential, just hasn't tap into yet.

Oden ain't overrated dumby. He is just injured. Healthy ODen is a beast. Team better hope he does not stay healthy the whole next seaso or they will have a big goddamn problem.

[InfiniteBaskets]

I actually wanted the Bulls to take Beasley over Rose and leave the PG for Miami. A few people said Beasley was the more logical choice since Chicago already had Hinrich.

Oh well, although Beasley hasn't lived up to expectations he is nowhere near some of the other number two draft pick busts.

[Clocian-IGN]

lol wow...nice bump :roll:

OP fail

[Quata]

Has anyone ever seen Kiddleslovesnets make a single correct prediction ever? Cause i haven't.

[Go Getter]

lol wow...nice bump :roll:

OP fail

**EPIC FAIL**

One guy actually almost predicted Rose's rookie stats spot on that was impressive though.

[Go Getter]

I actually wanted the Bulls to take Beasley over Rose and leave the PG for Miami. A few people said Beasley was the more logical choice since Chicago already had Hinrich.

Oh well, although Beasley hasn't lived up to expectations he is nowhere near some of the other number two draft pick busts.


Why? Why? Why?


1.) You never take a player withoiut a clear position #1
2.) Especially one that you don't knw can guard their position
3.) Beas is kind of a nutcase.
4.) Hinrich is the perfect bench player

[DwadeOverLebron]

LOLZ!!! WOW!!!

Kiddleslovesnets

[Random_Guy]

LOLZ!!! WOW!!!

Kiddleslovesnets
quoted a year to late though, if Rose never ever returns to form, from retrospect, he will be no different from beas. Yeah he won the MVP and was a superstar player, but he didnt bring home the chip which is what matters imo.

Hope he returns to form though hate seeing players go down like that

[ArbitraryWater]

Well last Season Beasly has been more valuable, and this Season flat out better :lol :rockon:

Beasley is still young. Right now, he legit looks like someone who could average 20 if starting... dude plays great

[NumberSix]

Rose is literally the least valuable player in the league.

[Jameerthefear]

Well last Season Beasly has been more valuable, and this Season flat out better :lol :rockon:

Beasley is still young. Right now, he legit looks like someone who could average 20 if starting... dude plays great
Beasley in no way could average 20 points per game.

[DwadeOverLebron]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326219

Well he stated this recently and someone found a similar thread in which I responded in also in '08.. so I thought it was funny and bumped it. Everyone makes mistakes.. even me believe it or not haha. It's just great to look back on and bust someones tittays.. hey i was really adamant about jamaal franklin last year and I have no idea what he's doing now, which reminds me to go look into him now to see how he's doing.. okbye

[WallIn]

Beasley>Rose
http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/blogs/entry_img/2009/Aug/24/MichaelBeasley.jpg

[Dresta]

Beasley in no way could average 20 points per game.
He averaged 19 in his third year.

[Milbuck]

He averaged 19 in his third year.
Jameer just say the first stupid shit that comes to his mind. I don't think he's ever actually thought out a comment before posting it.

[KrizMiz]

Epic bump !

[Jameerthefear]

He averaged 19 in his third year.
I know that, but what makes you think he can do it again? What has he shown you? He won't.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

I know that, but what makes you think he can do it again? What has he shown you? He won't.
he really could. let him play 35 minutes as a 2nd option and he would. efficency wouldnt be great doe.
but he is that good if he gets his head together finally

[nathanjizzle]

Memphis waives beasley, beasley headed to china :facepalm
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11671525/memphis-grizzlies-waive-former-no-2-overall-pick-michael-beasley

[SugarHill]

http://i6.minus.com/ibratAlAduLc5G.jpg

[nathanjizzle]

Everyone knows that Derrick Rose is a nice player, but just like he himself admitted a month ago, Michael Beasley is a way better player than him. Besides, the Bulls already have a not-too-bad backcourt and they badly need a inside scorer like Beasley. In a word, Beasley fits better in the current Bulls team than Rose. As a consequence, I'd say the Bulls will regret their decision if they do take Rose over Beasley during this draft. Seriously, why do people think the Bulls would draft Rose? Just 'cause he's from Chicago?

http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/templates/567.jpg

[Shade8780]

Is OP the WOAT ISH poster?

[VengefulAngel]

Is OP the WOAT ISH poster?

3ball is catching up quickly.

[Glide2keva]

Is Beasley even on a team this year?

[miles berg]

Lol at this thread.

[HurricaneKid]

Is Beasley even on a team this year?

Of course a player with his immense talents is on a team.

The Shanghai Sharks.

[nathanjizzle]

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2dtny0.jpg

[Pointguard]

I wasn't sold on either but Rose worries me more because of his predraft measurables... He's a pg with bad agility... He doesn't seem to be a very good passer either and ok scorer...
:biggums:

[sportjames23]

Everyone knows that Derrick Rose is a nice player, but just like he himself admitted a month ago, Michael Beasley is a way better player than him. Besides, the Bulls already have a not-too-bad backcourt and they badly need a inside scorer like Beasley. In a word, Beasley fits better in the current Bulls team than Rose. As a consequence, I'd say the Bulls will regret their decision if they do take Rose over Beasley during this draft. Seriously, why do people think the Bulls would draft Rose? Just 'cause he's from Chicago?


I know this was bumped, but I'm bumping this again to emphasize OP's foolishness. :oldlol:

[sportjames23]

he really could. let him play 35 minutes as a 2nd option and he would. efficency wouldnt be great doe.
but he is that good if he gets his head together finally


One good thing about this bump is seeing Marlo Stansfield is still banned. :oldlol:

EDIT: And Jameer got banned. Again. :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

first let me say i'd have picked beasley over rose every day of the week and twice on draft day if it had been up to me...
but dam guys ...lol
let these guys get some time under their belts before they are judged on who's going to have the better season...
point gaurds are going to score less and turn the ball over more if they are playing the position correctly, they are handling the ball nearly every time down the floor and responsible for getting it into the beasleys of this world hands...
comparing stats of rookies in summer league that play two completly different positions is ridiculous
Wonder why people were saying things like this. GTS was a good poster but I don't see him anymore. Actually one of the guys that knew the game very well.

[Bajanmale]

People are getting it severely twisted. Beasley won't be putting up 25 and 12 in the NBA the way he did at K-State. The kid dominated on a mediocre college team with no other legitimate stars, and in three or four years people will be all over him for doing nothing besides scoring, ala Carmelo.

Rose carried his team to the NCAA championship game, a few missed FT's away from the win, and made former scrubs like Chris Douglas-Roberts and Joey Dorsey look like first-round picks in the process.

It's not a contest. Potential franchise point guard vs. potential scoring champ who maybe gets 5 rebounds a game? I'm taking the first one and not looking back.
:bowdown:

[Papaya Petee]

Why are the Bulls fans laughing at this? Rose has been a nobody for 3 years and the year he won a fluke MVP the r was 6-7 players better than him in the league.

Now we dont know how good he'll be, he looked awful in FIBA

[nathanjizzle]

Why are the Bulls fans laughing at this? Rose has been a nobody for 3 years and the year he won a fluke MVP the r was 6-7 players better than him in the league.

Now we dont know how good he'll be, he looked awful in FIBA

which 6-7 players played better than rose that year? the last time i checked rose was the only one in the top ten for both points and assists and led his team to the best record of the league.

its sad, rose being injured and being out for 3 years is still more valuable than michael beasley.

[Angel Face]

:oldlol:

[MiseryCityTexas]

If Beasley turns out to be merely another Lamar Odom then he's a bust...


Lol he didn't even reach Lamar odom's level.:oldlol:

[Cocaine80s]

Beasley still had more impact in games for the past 2 years though.



i would say at this point both of their careers are equal with Rose winning from 09-11 and Beasley from 12-14.

we'll see how the rest of their careers unfold but its a toss up at this point
lol

[tomtucker]

Lets see who wins a ring first...........even if Beasley

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

which 6-7 players played better than rose that year? the last time i checked rose was the only one in the top ten for both points and assists and led his team to the best record of the league.

its sad, rose being injured and being out for 3 years is still more valuable than michael beasley.
Dirk, Dwight, Wade, CP, KD, Lebron

[G-train]

Beasley let many posters down in this thread more than anything.

[poido123]

Beasley still had more impact in games for the past 2 years though.



i would say at this point both of their careers are equal with Rose winning from 09-11 and Beasley from 12-14.

we'll see how the rest of their careers unfold but its a toss up at this point
lol



Yet he has never had a single season or moment greater than rose. Nor has he ever reached the heights that Rose has.

Who cares what Beasley did the last few years? His last 2 years have been almost irrelevant and he's now out of the league.

Without a shadow of a doubt, Rose was clearly the best choice and the Bulls are known to make good choices with their draft picks.

Careers are equal in what world? :hammerhead:

[Cocaine80s]

Yet he has never had a single season or moment greater than rose. Nor has he ever reached the heights that Rose has.

Who cares what Beasley did the last few years? His last 2 years have been almost irrelevant and he's now out of the league.

Without a shadow of a doubt, Rose was clearly the best choice and the Bulls are known to make good choices with their draft picks.

Careers are equal in what world? :hammerhead:
lol it was a joke, look at the white text :roll:

[bdreason]

Beasley will be better than Boozer. He's better at everything except for rebounding, which can be easily developed. Did everyone forget Beasley just beat Durants historic College #'s playing at the PF position?! Beasley's fundamentals at this stage are WAY better than Durants were.


If they draft Rose then Hinrich has to be moved. They already pay Hinrich like a franchise PG.


I'm honestly the worst talent evaluater on the planet. Pretty much every guy I think will bust pans out.

[Cocaine80s]

I'm honestly the worst talent evaluater on the planet. Pretty much every guy I think will bust pans out.
what are your thoughts on Zach Lavine?

[poido123]

lol it was a joke, look at the white text :roll:


Damn you white text :mad:

Was is this white text shit anyways? Is it an excuse to make a jackass of yourself? :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

Dirk, Dwight, Wade, CP, KD, Lebron
Sorry Durant and DH weren't leaders and couldn't take over games. No way was Chris Paul better that year. Rose was easily the most impressive and impactful player in the fourth quarters and against the elite (Everybody included).

[SugarHill]

Durant and Howard >>>>> Rose

[Pointguard]

Durant and Howard >>>>> Rose
Definitely not back then. Not even close. Three years later their leadership is still questioned. While I still have Durant as an all time great, he just hit that stride last year. But it wasn't til a two full years after Rose's MVP year that he could be depended on to take over. DH hasn't arrived there yet. This is the year that DH has to make a push for MVP but Harden might be in the way. But Lebron will be going for defensive player of the year.

[Papaya Petee]

Sorry Durant and DH weren't leaders and couldn't take over games. No way was Chris Paul better that year. Rose was easily the most impressive and impactful player in the fourth quarters and against the elite (Everybody included).

Wade averaged 26\6\5\2\1 on 50% that year while sharing the spotlight with LeBron. Already numbers better than Rose that year, plus better defensively. If LeBron wasn't on the Heat he would of averaged about 28\7\5. No argument Wade was better.

LeBron averaged 26\7\7\1\1 51% sharing spotlight with Wade. Easily 28\8\7 if he stayed with Cavs. Rose has zero argument over LeBron.

Dwight Howard averaged 23\14\3 on 59%, winning DPOY and carrying the Magic to once again 50+ wins. The defensive impact alone puts him over Rose.

Dirk, I won't even get into Dirk, his amazing post-season run puts him above Rose that year.

Durant averaged 28\7\3 46% on a team that made it to the WCF. Can be argued that he was better than Rose.

Kobe Bryant averaged 26\5\5 on a 57 win team, can be argued as well.

Lets face it, Rose was in the perfect situation that year. He had a very good all around team who gave it their all in the regular season, a coach who brought the best of them in the regular season, and they were gunning for that #1 seed. They were the best defensive team in the league that year not because of Rose.

MVP Rose wasn't even as good as 2nd year Wade or LeBron.

[poido123]

Wade averaged 26\6\5\2\1 on 50% that year while sharing the spotlight with LeBron. Already numbers better than Rose that year, plus better defensively. If LeBron wasn't on the Heat he would of averaged about 28\7\5. No argument Wade was better.

LeBron averaged 26\7\7\1\1 51% sharing spotlight with Wade. Easily 28\8\7 if he stayed with Cavs. Rose has zero argument over LeBron.

Dwight Howard averaged 23\14\3 on 59%, winning DPOY and carrying the Magic to once again 50+ wins. The defensive impact alone puts him over Rose.

Dirk, I won't even get into Dirk, his amazing post-season run puts him above Rose that year.

Durant averaged 28\7\3 46% on a team that made it to the WCF. Can be argued that he was better than Rose.

Kobe Bryant averaged 26\5\5 on a 57 win team, can be argued as well.

Lets face it, Rose was in the perfect situation that year. He had a very good all around team who gave it their all in the regular season, a coach who brought the best of them in the regular season, and they were gunning for that #1 seed. They were the best defensive team in the league that year not because of Rose.

MVP Rose wasn't even as good as 2nd year Wade or LeBron.


Every post I've seen from you is hating Bulls/Rose.

Give it a rest, Rose won MVP and deserved it based on judging criteria. If you have an issue with it, blame the judging criteria for an MVP :facepalm

[Jameerthefear]

Wade averaged 26\6\5\2\1 on 50% that year while sharing the spotlight with LeBron. Already numbers better than Rose that year, plus better defensively. If LeBron wasn't on the Heat he would of averaged about 28\7\5. No argument Wade was better.

LeBron averaged 26\7\7\1\1 51% sharing spotlight with Wade. Easily 28\8\7 if he stayed with Cavs. Rose has zero argument over LeBron.

Dwight Howard averaged 23\14\3 on 59%, winning DPOY and carrying the Magic to once again 50+ wins. The defensive impact alone puts him over Rose.

Dirk, I won't even get into Dirk, his amazing post-season run puts him above Rose that year.

Durant averaged 28\7\3 46% on a team that made it to the WCF. Can be argued that he was better than Rose.

Kobe Bryant averaged 26\5\5 on a 57 win team, can be argued as well.

Lets face it, Rose was in the perfect situation that year. He had a very good all around team who gave it their all in the regular season, a coach who brought the best of them in the regular season, and they were gunning for that #1 seed. They were the best defensive team in the league that year not because of Rose.

MVP Rose wasn't even as good as 2nd year Wade or LeBron.
So much truth. Repped.

[ralph_i_el]

Every post I've seen from you is hating Bulls/Rose.

Give it a rest, Rose won MVP and deserved it based on judging criteria. If you have an issue with it, blame the judging criteria for an MVP :facepalm

We all understand WHY Rose won the MVP
Just don't act like he was actually a top-3 player

[outbreak]

Every post I've seen from you is hating Bulls/Rose.

Give it a rest, Rose won MVP and deserved it based on judging criteria. If you have an issue with it, blame the judging criteria for an MVP :facepalm

I like Rose and I think he's a great player but I also think Dwight deserved the MVP that year over Rose and I hate Dwight. Rose got lucky with his MVP. He was (and still may be) an MVP calibre player and should have been in the discussion I just don't think he deserved to win it.

[gts]

Wonder why people were saying things like this. GTS was a good poster but I don't see him anymore. Actually one of the guys that knew the game very well.:confusedshrug:



Do still post here just not as much... majority of the threads are fairly well trolled now, not even worth wasting the time when the average response will be tldr, 6-24 or 2-5

[Pointguard]

Wade averaged 26\6\5\2\1 on 50% that year while sharing the spotlight with LeBron. Already numbers better than Rose that year, plus better defensively. If LeBron wasn't on the Heat he would of averaged about 28\7\5. No argument Wade was better.
I don't have a problem with people arguing those two despite Rose obviously being better in the 4th quarter than both of them. And Rose was definitely more effective against the elite teams that year. Wade and Lebron were great all around players that year. But the better teams beat them all year and frequently lost to better teams. I don't argue with people saying Dirk had a better outcome that year as well. I already said this.


Dwight Howard averaged 23\14\3 on 59%, winning DPOY and carrying the Magic to once again 50+ wins. The defensive impact alone puts him over Rose.
Rose just knew how to win games better than him. The more important the game got as the year ended, the better player in the deciding moments of the game, and against better competition it wasn't even close. Rose got his teams wins. No way, does defense mean more than that. Unless the goal of the game is to lose. Rose's post season run puts him over Howard whose near 50/20 got them beat bad and Howard's 8/8 was their only convincing win. Howard's big numbers had a counter effect on the team.


Durant averaged 28\7\3 46% on a team that made it to the WCF. Can be argued that he was better than Rose.
It can argued but he really wasn't a guy that could consistently impose his will on the game yet. The game always had guys like that.


Kobe Bryant averaged 26\5\5 on a 57 win team, can be argued as well.
His game was off that year and his team wasn't effective or pretended to be. Their stats were equal despite Rose's team having all sorts of problems with a much younger team.


Lets face it, Rose was in the perfect situation that year. He had a very good all around team who gave it their all in the regular season, a coach who brought the best of them in the regular season, and they were gunning for that #1 seed. They were the best defensive team in the league that year not because of Rose.

MVP Rose wasn't even as good as 2nd year Wade or LeBron.
:lol The Rose standard is crazy. The perfect situation??? Really??

*His team was one of the younger teams around.
*They were not used to playing with each other being new to each other
*He lost 57 games to his second and third best players.
*They ran a new system - look at how bad CP3/Blake, Kobe/Nash/DH, Lebron/Wade/Bosh, Dirk without Chandler, looked in a new system.
*First time coach
*The coach gave 20 mins of practice time to offense
*Didn't have another player in any significant top ten statistical category
*Didn't have two significant veteran players
*Team wasn't built around him
*No finishers
*No creators
*No consistent shooters (Korver's shot died after the ASG)
*All of this when there was the formation of super teams, experienced teams, veteran teams and just plain healthy teams and the Bulls still had the best record.

Sorry not one current player around has anything like that on their resume, rarely have they ever had the best record with great advantages on their side, much less great disadvantages. But the Derrick Rose standard is that this is a perfect situation.


AAmmmmaaazing.

[Pointguard]

The "perfect situation" is OKC where the core has been playing together for five years with two players top two in their position, with a top shot blocker in the game, a top wing defender, a top post defender, super scorers with a deep bench. Or the Clippers, or the Heat, Or the Lakers situation two years ago if they were healthy. But Rose... this is just hilarious.

[Pointguard]

:confusedshrug:

Do still post here just not as much... majority of the threads are fairly well trolled now, not even worth wasting the time when the average response will be tldr, 6-24 or 2-5
They really have cleaned that up now. That craziness is gone. Still a bit of it but very different from yesterday.

[I<3NBA]

actually, aside from his MVP year, Rose has been pretty much useless for the Bulls. 2 seasons sidelined, and this season still in question. if anything, the Bulls should regret for not taking Russel Westbrook.

[nathanjizzle]

Wade averaged 26\6\5\2\1 on 50% that year while sharing the spotlight with LeBron. Already numbers better than Rose that year, plus better defensively. If LeBron wasn't on the Heat he would of averaged about 28\7\5. No argument Wade was better.

.


wade 17.5 points on .38% while being assisted 38 percent of the time with 16/8 record. D rose 47.8 points on .402% and assisted 12 percent of the time with 30/10 record.

yea, wade was better than rose. :facepalm retards.

btw, miami had a losing record against elite teams 7-9 while bulls had a winning record of 12-9. lebron and wade must have played really good. d rose produced more than lebron againt elite competition while having a better record. dont even make me look up wades stats.

[SyRyanYang]

actually, aside from his MVP year, Rose has been pretty much useless for the Bulls. 2 seasons sidelined, and this season still in question. if anything, the Bulls should regret for not taking Russel Westbrook.

I wouldn't exactly call 6% particularly useful

[Pointguard]

actually, aside from his MVP year, Rose has been pretty much useless for the Bulls. 2 seasons sidelined, and this season still in question. if anything, the Bulls should regret for not taking Russel Westbrook.

No, accidents happen. Part of life. You only regret guys who don't try hard enough or don't want it bad enough.

Westbrook on the Bulls wouldn't have gotten them a ring either.

[SamuraiSWISH]

OP, what does it feel like to be a rocket scientist?

[305Baller]

I'm still laughing at this one.

[aj1987]

wade 17.5 points on .38% while being assisted 38 percent of the time with 16/8 record. D rose 47.8 points on .402% and assisted 12 percent of the time with 30/10 record.

yea, wade was better than rose. :facepalm retards.

btw, miami had a losing record against elite teams 7-9 while bulls had a winning record of 12-9. lebron and wade must have played really good. d rose produced more than lebron againt elite competition while having a better record. dont even make me look up wades stats.
:oldlol: @ Comparing Wade and Rose. Rose might've been the MVP, but he certainly was not a better player than Wade.

Wade averaged 7/2/1 on 45/32/72 in the 4th and 3 PPG on 50/50/100 in OT.
Rose averaged 6/2/1 on 42/34/88 in the 5th and 3 PPG on 32/34/100 in OT.

Those are just the numbers, BTW. I'm not even bringing up the defensive impact that Wade brought. Dwyane Wade was 16th in DPOY voting for the RS as well.

Since you're bringing up team records and records against elite teams, what happened in the Playoffs? What happened to the Rose Bulls which was able to beat all the elite teams in the league?

[poido123]

I like Rose and I think he's a great player but I also think Dwight deserved the MVP that year over Rose and I hate Dwight. Rose got lucky with his MVP. He was (and still may be) an MVP calibre player and should have been in the discussion I just don't think he deserved to win it.


I thought Chris Paul was the better player and deserved MVP back in 08, but Lebron still deserved it 100% because he met the criteria of an MVP.

There are plenty of MVP winners who weren't necessarily the best player that year, but because of team record and stats combined, they won it.

All I'm saying is, people get so upset over the MVP and who it gets awarded to.

What they don't realise is, it's a highly flawed award that shouldn't be taken too seriously. It has too many variables and bullshit to trust it 100%

[aj1987]

I thought Chris Paul was the better player and deserved MVP back in 08, but Lebron still deserved it 100% because he met the criteria of an MVP.

There are plenty of MVP winners who weren't necessarily the best player that year, but because of team record and stats combined, they won it.

All I'm saying is, people get so upset over the MVP and who it gets awarded to.

What they don't realise is, it's a highly flawed award that shouldn't be taken too seriously. It has too many variables and bullshit to trust it 100%
Kobe won the MVP in '08.

[poido123]

We all understand WHY Rose won the MVP
Just don't act like he was actually a top-3 player


Yeah, he was.

Bulls had a very impressive year and their record reflected that. The best player on the team also had a great statistical year, so Rose makes an excellent choice for MVP based on the judging criteria. 62 wins is a standout year and deserves extra weight behind it.

Only Lebron and maybe Howard had a case over him. Who else?

And howard's team record wasn't in line with judging criteria. Not always the rule, but they do use team record as a big part in judging it.

Lebron had an excellent season but had a lower team record. Lebron had a higher PER and higher in some statistical categories, but he's also a PG in a SF's body which gives him advantages at rebounding and other statistics.

[russwest0]

Yeah, he was.

Bulls had a very impressive year and their record reflected that. The best player on the team also had a great statistical year, so Rose makes an excellent choice for MVP based on the judging criteria. 62 wins is a standout year and deserves extra weight behind it.

Only Lebron and maybe Howard had a case over him. Who else?

And howard's team record wasn't in line with judging criteria. Not always the rule, but they do use team record as a big part in judging it.

Lebron had an excellent season but had a lower team record. Lebron had a higher PER and higher in some statistical categories, but he's also a PG in a SF's body which gives him advantages at rebounding and other statistics.

dude rose was never better than lebron, durant, and westbrook

[poido123]

Kobe won the MVP in '08.


08-09.

You know what year I'm talking about based on Chris Paul being in the running.

[Cocaine80s]

All im saying is that Beasley has been to the finals.

His impact is greater than Roses

[Pointguard]

:oldlol: @ Comparing Wade and Rose. Rose might've been the MVP, but he certainly was not a better player than Wade.

Wade averaged 7/2/1 on 45/32/72 in the 4th and 3 PPG on 50/50/100 in OT.
Rose averaged 6/2/1 on 42/34/88 in the 5th and 3 PPG on 32/34/100 in OT.

Those are just the numbers, BTW. I'm not even bringing up the defensive impact that Wade brought. Dwyane Wade was 16th in DPOY voting for the RS as well.

Since you're bringing up team records and records against elite teams, what happened in the Playoffs? What happened to the Rose Bulls which was able to beat all the elite teams in the league?
Rose had waaaaay more responsibilities, had waaaay less help, and veteran teams with three top players at three positions ALWAYs beat new young teams in a new system - that's the way the playoffs work. So the formation of a super team happened. What Wade did that year was not on the level of what Rose did.

[poido123]

dude rose was never better than lebron, durant, and westbrook


Y'all need to go read how they judge an MVP.

I don't like the way an award is judged either, but you can't blame Rose for that.

[russwest0]

Y'all need to go read how they judge an MVP.

I don't like the way an award is judged either, but you can't blame Rose for that.

nah dude I'm agreeing with you, it's a pointless ass award, i was just saying that he was never a top 3 player

[poido123]

nah dude I'm agreeing with you, it's a pointless ass award, i was just saying that he was never a top 3 player


:cheers:

That's cool.

It just bothers me when people say he didn't deserve it. Based on the criteria he did? But yeah, perhaps Lebron or Howard were better and that's fine.

[sportjames23]

All im saying is that Beasley has been to the finals.

His impact is greater than Roses


:facepalm

[Dresta]

Seriously Chicago fans trying to argue that Rose has ever (or will ever) been/be better than Wade in 2011. Your incessant overrating of Rose is why no-one likes the personality-less piece of glass.

:facepalm

[aj1987]

08-09.

You know what year I'm talking about based on Chris Paul being in the running.
How the hell is he gonna win MVP on a 49 win team?

LeBron - 28.4 PPG 7.6 RPG 7.2 APG 1.7 SPG 1.1 BPG on 59% TS (66 WINS) #2 in DPOY voting as well.
Paul - 22.8 PPG 5.5 RPG 11.8 APG 2.8 SPG 0.1 BPG on 60% TS (49 WINS)


Rose had waaaaay more responsibilities, had waaaay less help, and veteran teams with three top players at three positions ALWAYs beat new young teams in a new system - that's the way the playoffs work. So the formation of a super team happened. What Wade did that year was not on the level of what Rose did.
Dude had the best defensive team in the NBA and a damn good coach in Thibs. Stop acting like Rose had no help. He had a 17/6/3 player in Deng, a 18/10/3/1 player in Boozer, 12/10/2/1/2 Noah (made the All-D team) etc.. The Heat team was pretty much garbage outside of the big 3. Rose was required to play on only side of the floor, because his team was able to cover his defensive inabilities. Wade was required to play on both sides of the floor. Again, Rose might've deserved the MVP, but he wasn't a better player than Wade. Heck, swap Wade and Rose, the Bulls would've take the Heat to 7 games.

[I<3NBA]

No, accidents happen. Part of life. You only regret guys who don't try hard enough or don't want it bad enough.

Westbrook on the Bulls wouldn't have gotten them a ring either.
but at least he would have played in 2012 and 2013, and in all probability Chicago would have been in the ECF battling Miami in place of the Pacers.

[poido123]

How the hell is he gonna win MVP on a 49 win team?

LeBron - 28.4 PPG 7.6 RPG 7.2 APG 1.7 SPG 1.1 BPG on 59% TS (66 WINS) #2 in DPOY voting as well.
Paul - 22.8 PPG 5.5 RPG 11.8 APG 2.8 SPG 0.1 BPG on 60% TS (49 WINS)


Dude had the best defensive team in the NBA and a damn good coach in Thibs. Stop acting like Rose had no help. He had a 17/6/3 player in Deng, a 18/10/3/1 player in Boozer, 12/10/2/1/2 Noah (made the All-D team) etc.. The Heat team was pretty much garbage outside of the big 3. Rose was required to play on only side of the floor, because his team was able to cover his defensive inabilities. Wade was required to play on both sides of the floor. Again, Rose might've deserved the MVP, but he wasn't a better player than Wade. Heck, swap Wade and Rose, the Bulls would've take the Heat to 7 games.


I may have a year mixed up, but I was saying that I thought Paul had a standout year for the Hornets and I thought he was the best player all year.

However, Lebron deserved the award, he also had a great statistical season and had a good team record.

The point i was making is, the best player in a year does not always get the award. System is flawed.

[noob cake]

Aside from LeBron's years in Miami or now in Cleveland, Rose has been the superstar with the most stacked team.


Some people want to credit all of Chicago's success to Rose, but the fact remains that the Bulls win with or without Rose. Thibs + Noah = heart and soul of the team.

[Stringer Bell]

If Beasley turns out to be merely another Lamar Odom then he's a bust...


Lol he didn't even reach Lamar odom's level.:oldlol:

Yeah.

Odom was a bit frustrating as he could have been a lot more, he was very talented IMO, but was still better than Beasley has ever proven to be.

And not by a little.

[chips93]

Your incessant overrating of Rose is why no-one likes the personality-less piece of glass.

:facepalm

why would you let some trolls on an online messageboard stop you enjoying one of the most exciting players of his generation?

you probably spend too much time on here, or take it too seriously if this is the case.

[trabash]

You can't argue like that, who knows how Beasley would have developed in a different environment. If Chicago drafted him maybe he would be a Top-5 player in the league now, who knows, the talent seemed to be there.

[aj1987]

I may have a year mixed up, but I was saying that I thought Paul had a standout year for the Hornets and I thought he was the best player all year.

However, Lebron deserved the award, he also had a great statistical season and had a good team record.

The point i was making is, the best player in a year does not always get the award. System is flawed.
Not really. Except for the Nash and AI MVP's, they've been pretty spot on in the past ~30 years. They usually give it to players on teams with 50+ wins.

A few think that he should've won it in '08. The Hornets won 56 and dude put up incredible numbers (21/12/4/3 on 58% TS).

[tpols]

Seriously Chicago fans trying to argue that Rose has ever (or will ever) been/be better than Wade in 2011. Your incessant overrating of Rose is why no-one likes the personality-less piece of glass.

:facepalm

Do you seriously believe wade was better than rose in 2011?

Facing single coverage everywhere he went with a teammate that clearly outplayed him through the first 82 games of the RS and first 3 rounds of the playoffs and STILL putting up worse stats w/much less clutch performances? Winning less games with Lebron and Bosh than Rose did with an injured trio of taj/noah/boozer?


Rose had to face wade/bosh/lebron all ganging up on him.. with keith bogans and deng as his wings.. two guys who can barely dribble against a good, let alone great defense.. With how wade played in that chicago series with piss poor numbers, if you were to switch spots with him and rose I wouldnt even want to know what the disparity would be. Wade on an island in 2011 facing double teams from lebron/bosh/rose might shoot sub 40TS( he already shot sub 50TS with all the pressure relieved and facing single coverage as bron and bosh had dominant series).

[beastee]

Rose has been the superstar with the most stacked team.


If you TRULY believe this, you should stop watching basketball. The bulls have not had a true #2 talent since Scottie Pippen. Luol Deng was the third or 4th best player on a championship team and Noah lacks major offensive talent. The Bulls have had deep benches, but consistently have major holes in the starting lineup. They started Freaking Keith Bogans and Rip Hamilton when Rose was leading them to #1 seeds. Dunleavy is projected to be their starting SF this year. I can name 5-7 teams in the league that were a more stacked team than the Bulls of 2010-2014.

[Pointguard]

Dude had the best defensive team in the NBA and a damn good coach in Thibs. Stop acting like Rose had no help. He had a 17/6/3 player in Deng, a 18/10/3/1 player in Boozer, 12/10/2/1/2 Noah (made the All-D team) etc.
Deng was steady, and consistent through out the year. Rarely ever has a 30 point game. Didn't get more than 21 points in a game that series despite them throwing the kitchen sink at Rose. Boozer and Noah were both benched twice in fourth quarters in that series. Could you imagine Lebron and Bosh being benched in the fourth quarters??? Boozer did not know the offensive sets and often got in Rose's way. Noah was a 6/10 guy in that series. Noah just wasn't a good player and should have been benched. And this is what you are comparing to Lebron and Bosh to.


. The Heat team was pretty much garbage outside of the big 3. Rose was required to play on only side of the floor, because his team was able to cover his defensive inabilities. Wade was required to play on both sides of the floor. Again, Rose might've deserved the MVP, but he wasn't a better player than Wade. Heck, swap Wade and Rose, the Bulls would've take the Heat to 7 games.
:lol defensive inabilities? In case you didn't know Rose was the third best defender of the starters.

*The team had the best perimeter defense where there is less help than any place on the floor. The only penetrating point guards in the league were Parker and Paul. I don't recall Paul playing them that year and Rose routinely kills Parker anyway. So team defense had little to do with anything. Nice try though.

*Rose was put on Wade because he is the best one on one defender in the back court.

*Rose shut Wade down in two games in the fourth quarter in the ECF. In fact played Wade as good as I seen anybody play a healthy Wade in the playoffs.

*Wade doesn't control a game like Rose does. Teams didn't run on the Bulls.

*Wade on the Bulls instead of Rose? Wade wasn't successful that year when he was the second best player on his team, had the games best creator, had the games best finisher, the games best player, and a great front office.

*Wade had championship players and way more experienced veteran role players.

*Wade has never done anything in his career without a great offensive distraction on his team.

*Rose didn't have finishers, creators or steady good players in the playoffs outside of Deng. Much less a better player!

Rose did more for his team than Wade did. Wade had more help. You couldn't throw the kitchen sink at Wade and Wade didn't up his game when the better player on the team sat out. At least do that much.

[Pointguard]

Seriously Chicago fans trying to argue that Rose has ever (or will ever) been/be better than Wade in 2011. Your incessant overrating of Rose is why no-one likes the personality-less piece of glass.

:facepalm
Wow, that was really childish? You OK???

[aj1987]

Do you seriously believe wade was better than rose in 2011?
Yes. He was. Don't kid yourself. Rose was on an incredible defensive team. The Bulls beat their opponents with their defense. As I said, swap Wade and Rose. The Bulls would take the Heat to 7 in the ECF. They probably would win more games in the RS as well.

Defense - Wade
Scoring - Wade

Wade literally does everything better than Rose.

26/6/5/2/1 on 58% in the RS vs 25/4/8/1/1 on 55% TS.
24/7/4/2/1 on 55% in the PO vs 27/4/8/1/1 on 50% TS.


With how wade played in that chicago series with piss poor numbers, if you were to switch spots with him and rose I wouldnt even want to know what the disparity would be.
Yeah, he played poorly against the Bulls, who were the best defensive team in the NBA. He did score 30/7/5/2/1 on 62% TS against the #2 defense in the ECSF.


Wade on an island in 2011 facing double teams from lebron/bosh/rose might shoot sub 40TS( he already shot sub 50TS with all the pressure relieved and facing single coverage as bron and bosh had dominant series).
:facepalm

[tpols]

An 18/10 Boozer. :oldlol: Goes for 14/10 versus the heat. Shoots 49TS.

Meanwhile Chris Bosh goes for 23/8 on 68TS :eek: :eek:


A 12/10 Noah.. goes for 6/10 on 34TS. That is almost unbelievable.

Deng played alright.. he couldnt dribble at the end of games if his life depended on it, but he put up a somehwat respectable 17 on 53TS. Of course thats nothing compared to the help Wade got at SF.. 26/8/7 57TS from Lebron.

Help aint close. Stop it.


Wade wasnt even a first team all NBAer in 2011.. he didnt even finish top 5 in MVP voting. :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Deng was steady, and consistent through out the year. Rarely ever has a 30 point game. Didn't get more than 21 points in a game that series despite them throwing the kitchen sink at Rose. Boozer and Noah were both benched twice in fourth quarters in that series. Could you imagine Lebron and Bosh being benched in the fourth quarters??? Boozer did not know the offensive sets and often got in Rose's way. Noah was a 6/10 guy in that series. Noah just wasn't a good player and should have been benched. And this is what you are comparing to Lebron and Bosh to.
Are you trying to say that Rose carried that team? :facepalm

As I said, that team was DAMN good defensively and has two 15+ PPG scorers. Stop pretending like Wade wouldn't get the same/better results with that team.


defensive inabilities? In case you didn't know Rose was the third best defender of the starters.
I've seen a ton of Bulls games and Rose was never a good defender. He was average at best. Meanwhile, Wade was probably the 2nd best defender on the Heat.



The team had the best perimeter defense where there is less help than any place on the floor. The only penetrating point guards in the league were Parker and Paul. I don't recall Paul playing them that year and Rose routinely kills Parker anyway. So team defense had little to do with anything. Nice try though.
What? Wade can guard PG-SF. Is more versatile and a MUCH better defensive player than Rose EVER was or EVER will be.


Rose shut Wade down in two games in the fourth quarter in the ECF. In fact played Wade as good as I seen anybody play a healthy Wade in the playoffs.
Wade struggled the ENTIRE series. You think Rose can actually "shutdown" Wade? :oldlol:


*Wade doesn't control a game like Rose does. Teams didn't run on the Bulls.
:oldlol:

Are you serious, dude?


*Wade on the Bulls instead of Rose? Wade wasn't successful that year when he was the second best player on his team, had the games best creator, had the games best finisher, the games best player, and a great front office.
What does that have to do with swapping Wade and Rose? Wade is a flat out better player than Rose ever Wade or ever will be.


*Wade had championship players and way more experienced veteran role players.
Doesn't change the fact that the team outside the big 3 was GARBAGE.


*Wade has never done anything in his career without a great offensive distraction on his team.
13 PPG Shaq was a huge offensive distraction, right? Idiot. What has Rose accomplished? Other than the MVP (which should've rightfully gone to LeBron/Dwight/Dirk) he won? Shot 6% in the clutch in the ECF. Shot 49% TS in the entire playoffs. Give him a slightly worse team, and the Bulls would be back in the lottery.

BTW, put '11 Rose on the '09 and '10 Heat, they'd be lucky to win 20+ games. The mental midget would shit himself without the best defense in the league.


Rose did more for his team than Wade did. Wade had more help. You couldn't throw the kitchen sink at Wade and Wade didn't up his game when the better player on the team sat out. At least do that much.
:wtf:

As I said, Wade is better than Rose at every aspect of basketball. Deal with it.


An 18/10 Boozer. :oldlol: Goes for 14/10 versus the heat. Shoots 49TS.

Meanwhile Chris Bosh goes for 23/8 on 68TS :eek: :eek:


A 12/10 Noah.. goes for 6/10 on 34TS. That is almost unbelievable.

Deng played alright.. he couldnt dribble at the end of games if his life depended on it, but he put up a somehwat respectable 17 on 53TS. Of course thats nothing compared to the help Wade got at SF.. 26/8/7 57TS from Lebron.

Help aint close. Stop it.


Wade wasnt even a first team all NBAer in 2011.. he didnt even finish top 5 in MVP voting. :oldlol:
You're the dumbass who said Westbrook is better than Wade.

[Pointguard]

Yes. He was. Don't kid yourself. Rose was on an incredible defensive team. The Bulls beat their opponents with their defense. As I said, swap Wade and Rose. The Bulls would take the Heat to 7 in the ECF. They probably would win more games in the RS as well.

Defense - Wade
Scoring - Wade

Wade literally does everything better than Rose.

26/6/5/2/1 on 58% in the RS vs 25/4/8/1/1 on

Yeah, he played poorly against the Bulls, who were the best defensive team in the NBA. He did score 30/7/5/2/1 on 62% TS against the #2 defense in the ECSF.

:facepalm
They were 23 and 28th in offense without Rose. Carrying and winning with a young inexperienced team is very different than being the second best player on your team. No exceptions.

Wade has never had any success carrying a big offensive burden in like 12 years now. In his best year '09 it didn't happen.

[aj1987]

They were 23 and 28th in offense without Rose. Carrying and winning with a young inexperienced team is very different than being the second best player on your team. No exceptions.

Wade has never had any success carrying a big offensive burden in like 12 years now. In his best year '09 it didn't happen.
Do you know who Wade's teammates were in '09? Whenever he had even a decent team around him, he made deep playoff runs. Carry offensive burden? Yeah, Rose and his 25 PPG carried the Bulls to 60+ wins and the ECF. Not the team defense. :facepalm

I still don't understand why people who have never seen pre-decision Wade post about him. Rose is not even on the same tier as Wade as a player.

[Pointguard]

Originally Posted by Pointguard
Deng was steady, and consistent through out the year. Rarely ever has a 30 point game. Didn't get more than 21 points in a game that series despite them throwing the kitchen sink at Rose. Boozer and Noah were both benched twice in fourth quarters in that series. Could you imagine Lebron and Bosh being benched in the fourth quarters??? Boozer did not know the offensive sets and often got in Rose's way. Noah was a 6/10 guy in that series. Noah just wasn't a good player and should have been benched. And this is what you are comparing to Lebron and Bosh to.

Are you trying to say that Rose carried that team? :facepalm
I didn't say anything there remotely like that. Noah and Boozer weren't great for the team in that series. If Lebron and Bosh played as ineffective, Chicago would have destroyed Miami. Especially with Rose taking Wade off his game. And that wasn't a team effort.


As I said, that team was DAMN good defensively and has two 15+ PPG scorers. Stop pretending like Wade wouldn't get the same/better results with that team.
See above.



I've seen a ton of Bulls games and Rose was never a good defender. He was average at best. Meanwhile, Wade was probably the 2nd best defender on the Heat.
What games were you watching? You are a Heat guy - you seen Rose work Wade. How is it that you didn't watch those games. You think every elite point guard just had bad games. That's a big coincidence. Something that escaped Wade his entire career when their were way less effective SG.

Originally Posted by Pointguard
The team had the best perimeter defense where there is less help than any place on the floor. The only penetrating point guards in the league were Parker and Paul. I don't recall Paul playing them that year and Rose routinely kills Parker anyway. So team defense had little to do with anything. Nice try though.


What? Wade can guard PG-SF. Is more versatile and a MUCH better defensive player than Rose EVER was or EVER will be.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote??? You just respond to yourself after quoting me??? This is the second time you've done this in this one post? You got concentration problems?


Wade struggled the ENTIRE series. You think Rose can actually "shutdown" Wade? :oldlol:

Sorry dude, when you are the second best player on the team, you shouldn't have the convenience of an excuse maker. Wade did well when Rose wasn't guarding him. Sorry it was directly related to Rose playing him. I'm sure you got another "beta" excuse.



What does that have to do with swapping Wade and Rose? Wade is a flat out better player than Rose ever Wade or ever will be.
Sorry, second best player on his team can't claim the brunt of success, responsibility or transformation of a team moreso than a main player. When Lebron played bad Wade couldn't help. That's bad. The winning was on Lebron's shoulders. Lebron had Rose's responsibility in carrying the team. Wade is on another level - one of less responsibility and effectiveness.


Doesn't change the fact that the team outside the big 3 was GARBAGE.

Sorry guy. Top talent wins in this league more so than any other quality. They had veteran role players and were expected to be much better than Chicago.


13 PPG Shaq was a huge offensive distraction, right? Idiot. What has Rose accomplished? Other than the MVP (which should've rightfully gone to LeBron/Dwight/Dirk) he won? Shot 6% in the clutch in the ECF. Shot 49% TS in the entire playoffs. Give him a slightly worse team, and the Bulls would be back in the lottery.

:lol ok clown, now that I know know you just don't watch games or have zero knowledge of it, and will lie and name call to make yourself look like something of a fan Shaq was getting 20ppg and was still the most deadly player in the deep post in the game and shooting over 60%. Even if you don't have your stats right, you aren't blind. You don't know what you are talking about and just clueless hater without even a pretense of knowing what the game is about.

[Pointguard]

Do you know who Wade's teammates were in '09? Whenever he had even a decent team around him, he made deep playoff runs. Carry offensive burden? Yeah, Rose and his 25 PPG carried the Bulls to 60+ wins and the ECF. Not the team defense. :facepalm
The team had the best perimeter defense. Rose contained all of the elite at his position. He controlled the pace of the game which was key to them winning. Sorry he was a key part of team defense.


I still don't understand why people who have never seen pre-decision Wade post about him. Rose is not even on the same tier as Wade as a player.
Sorry you pay for teaming up with other players, and a better player and not delivering. Wade doesn't get Alpha status when he volunteered to be a Beta. Plain and simple. Unfortunately that is his reality. He was a great player before that. I have no problem with that. He was better than Rose when he was in charge. But if he can't step up, after coasting on a better player all year, on his team - he shouldn't be compared to other guys that got that responsibility of carrying a team with some success.

[aj1987]

I didn't say anything there remotely like that. Noah and Boozer weren't great for the team in that series. If Lebron and Bosh played as ineffective, Chicago would have destroyed Miami. Especially with Rose taking Wade off his game. And that wasn't a team effort.
Why are you bringing up a FIVE game sample, when I was talking about the whole year?


What games were you watching? You are a Heat guy - you seen Rose work Wade. How is it that you didn't watch those games. You think every elite point guard just had bad games. That's a big coincidence. Something that escaped Wade his entire career when their were way less effective SG.
Yeah, LOL! You must be the only person in the world who thinks Rose is a good defender. Dude is AVERAGE. Do you think his team had nothing to do with it?
As I said, Wade was an elite defender. Rose wasn't even remotely close.


This has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote??? You just respond to yourself after quoting me??? This is the second time you've done this in this one post? You got concentration problems?
Can't you read simple English? We're comparing two players. Wade's defense >>>> Rose's defense. It's as simple as that.

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?


Sorry dude, when you are the second best player on the team, you shouldn't have the convenience of an excuse maker. Wade did well when Rose wasn't guarding him. Sorry it was directly related to Rose playing him. I'm sure you got another "beta" excuse.
FACT: The Heat curb stomped the Bulls.
FACT: The Rose is an AVERAGE defender.
FACT: The Bulls team defense bothered Wade and his shot was off.



Sorry, second best player on his team can't claim the brunt of success, responsibility or transformation of a team moreso than a main player. When Lebron played bad Wade couldn't help. That's bad. The winning was on Lebron's shoulders. Lebron had Rose's responsibility in carrying the team. Wade is on another level - one of less responsibility and effectiveness.
Are you legit retarded or just trolling? Can't tell. What does any of that have to do with Wade being a significantly better player than Rose? If you're bringing up the Finals, LeBron sucked ass and Dirk was incredible in the clutch. If Rose was on the Heat in the Finals, Miami would've gotten SWEPT. Lets also not forget Wade's injury in game 5, which affected him the rest of the series.


Sorry guy. Top talent wins in this league more so than any other quality. They had veteran role players and were expected to be much better than Chicago.
They were expected to be better because the BIG 3, moron.



:lol ok clown, now that I know know you just don't watch games or have zero knowledge of it, and will lie and name call to make yourself look like something of a fan Shaq was getting 20ppg and was still the most deadly player in the deep post in the game and shooting over 60%. Even if you don't have your stats right, you aren't blind. You don't know what you are talking about and just clueless hater without even a pretense of knowing what the game is about.
Listen up, shit for brains. Shaq sucked ass in the Finals. The same Shaq who averaged 13 PPG. Shaq was also an average to below average defender in '06. What happened to Shaq when Wade went down in the 2005 ECF? Is your dumbass also gonna pretend that the Heat were even remotely close to being good outside these two? Again, '11 Rose on the '05 and '06 Heat would've resulted in 2nd round losses at BEST. How are you gonna act like you know ANYTHING about basketball, when you think Rose is a better overall player than Wade? Or that Wade can't "take over" games? Or that Wade can't win without another offensive player? Oh, and Shaq averaged 18 PPG in the '06 Playoffs. 19 the previous year.


The team had the best perimeter defense. Rose contained all of the elite at his position. He controlled the pace of the game which was key to them winning. Sorry he was a key part of team defense.
:roll:

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?

Rose is an average defender at his BEST. Dude is not even on rookie Wade's level defensively.


Sorry you pay for teaming up with other players, and a better player and not delivering. Wade doesn't get Alpha status when he volunteered to be a Beta. Plain and simple. Unfortunately that is his reality. He was a great player before that. I have no problem with that. He was better than Rose when he was in charge. But if he can't step up, after coasting on a better player all year, on his team - he shouldn't be compared to other guys that got that responsibility of carrying a team with some success.
A Rose stan talking about being beta? Ironic. :oldlol:

Anyways, we're talking about '11. The year when Wade averaged more points that LeBron in the Playoffs. The year when they were 1a and 1b. Try to keep up, Mr. Special needs.

I'm done with this discussion. It's pretty clear that you're biased to the point of being delusional. For the final time, Wade > Rose offensively and defensively. Wade > Rose as a player and it's not even close.

[SugarHill]

The overrating of Rose is ludicrous.

[Pointguard]

Why are you bringing up a FIVE game sample, when I was talking about the whole year?

Surely you know Noah and Boozer missed a ton of games and hardly played well together. The five game sample illustrated their yearly issue.


Yeah, LOL! You must be the only person in the world who thinks Rose is a good defender. Dude is AVERAGE. Do you think his team had nothing to do with it?
As I said, Wade was an elite defender. Rose wasn't even remotely close. Sorry you aren't an elite defender if another player has to guard your player at critical times of the game. Rose was a much better defender than given credit for. Most people don't know how much pace affects the game and its under defense.

And once again I am talking about Rose holding Wade better than I seen any player hold a healthy Wade in the post season. You keep running from that.



Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?
Curry wasn't an elite player at that time, sorry, he had little impact on the game and his team was 10 games under 500. One game he got his average 17 points and Bulls blew them out by 30. But he did get 23 in the other game in a win. Once again he's a hot new player that wasn't really elite.

Rose destroyed SA that year. TP got 26 points in a blow out loss where Rose had 40 something when the game was critical to both of them. And Rose dominated him in that game. TP did get 2.5 points higher than his '11 average in the early season game (20 points which isn't really a good game).

Westbrook and Rose in the first game had 28 points on each other in the first game of the season before the Bulls coach got his injured team together. The second game Brook was held to 40% shooting and 15 points.



FACT: The Heat curb stomped the Bulls.
FACT: The Rose is an AVERAGE defender.
FACT: The Bulls team defense bothered Wade and his shot was off.

All of that is perception. But good try.



Are you legit retarded or just trolling? Can't tell. What does any of that have to do with Wade being a significantly better player than Rose? If you're bringing up the Finals, LeBron sucked ass and Dirk was incredible in the clutch. If Rose was on the Heat in the Finals, Miami would've gotten SWEPT. Lets also not forget Wade's injury in game 5, which affected him the rest of the series.
:lol Ohhh right it was a 9 game series. :oldlol:



They were expected to be better because the BIG 3, moron.

:lol Really, you're kidding me? And Wade was the step down Beta, when they needed it?


Listen up, shit for brains. Shaq sucked ass in the Finals. The same Shaq who averaged 13 PPG. Shaq was also an average to below average defender in '06. What happened to Shaq when Wade went down in the 2005 ECF? Is your dumbass also gonna pretend that the Heat were even remotely close to being good outside these two? Again, '11 Rose on the '05 and '06 Heat would've resulted in 2nd round losses at BEST. How are you gonna act like you know ANYTHING about basketball, when you think Rose is a better overall player than Wade? Or that Wade can't "take over" games? Or that Wade can't win without another offensive player? Oh, and Shaq averaged 18 PPG in the '06 Playoffs. 19 the previous year.

To say he wasn't garnering super attention on the blocks is monumental foolishness. Wade averaged an incredible 35ppg that series. And he doesn't get half the respect Dirk does - the same guy that he beat in that series. Wonder why??? He wasn't even considered the best shooting guard the next year. Wasn't even clear he was the Alpha on that team when he played his butt off - I actually thought he was but read the boards here.



I'm done with this discussion. It's pretty clear that you're biased to the point of being delusional. For the final time, Wade > Rose offensively and defensively. Wade > Rose as a player and it's not even close.
Beta roll with the punches. Beta yet, maybe not. Sorry if you team up with the best player you can't have excuses.

Don't get me wrong Wade is a great player but if you step down off of the leader stage you better be the best second best player without excuses. Only stans are going to make excuses for you. On Inside Edition other players were saying Penny and Tmac were better than Wade. So don't say it's only me clown. And through out your life people will and should always respect the person taking over the helm with energy than the guy stepping down off of it. Rose had way more responsibility, and was the key to his team. Wade was stepping down and wasn't the key to his team.

Biiiig Difference.

[Pointguard]

The overrating of Rose is ludicrous.

Defend yourself. I have repeated myself here a number of times. I view a guy with a ton of responsibilities and being the key to his team winning better than I do a guy that's willing makes himself number two. On "Open Court" Wade was dogged because of this very same reason. I think Wade in his prime is a straight up beast. One of the best 2 guards ever, top 3 of the ones I ever seen play. But when a guy steps off the stage he loses a lot of shine. And in 2011, he did something that can only be rectified by winning it all or an incredible year.

My premise is that you can't be granted the two spot if you walk away from the one spot.

[Real14]

Back then I'm sure most people picked Beasley. Beasley was an absolute beast in college. He was supposed to be robin to wade but then 2010 happened.

[nathanjizzle]

Are you trying to say that Rose carried that team? :facepalm

As I said, that team was DAMN good defensively and has two 15+ PPG scorers. Stop pretending like Wade wouldn't get the same/better results with that team.




how do idiots get away with saying stuff like this. wade in 2011 had a better team than rose and the heat still had a worst record not to mention a losing record against elite teams. rose in 2011 carried the bulls in a rediculous way similar to 2006 dwyane wade, and i havent seen dwyane wade play like that since then.

[SamuraiSWISH]

OP, what does it feel like to have intelligence that rivals Will Hunting?

[poido123]

Why are you bringing up a FIVE game sample, when I was talking about the whole year?


Yeah, LOL! You must be the only person in the world who thinks Rose is a good defender. Dude is AVERAGE. Do you think his team had nothing to do with it?
As I said, Wade was an elite defender. Rose wasn't even remotely close.


Can't you read simple English? We're comparing two players. Wade's defense >>>> Rose's defense. It's as simple as that.

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?


FACT: The Heat curb stomped the Bulls.
FACT: The Rose is an AVERAGE defender.
FACT: The Bulls team defense bothered Wade and his shot was off.



Are you legit retarded or just trolling? Can't tell. What does any of that have to do with Wade being a significantly better player than Rose? If you're bringing up the Finals, LeBron sucked ass and Dirk was incredible in the clutch. If Rose was on the Heat in the Finals, Miami would've gotten SWEPT. Lets also not forget Wade's injury in game 5, which affected him the rest of the series.


They were expected to be better because the BIG 3, moron.



Listen up, shit for brains. Shaq sucked ass in the Finals. The same Shaq who averaged 13 PPG. Shaq was also an average to below average defender in '06. What happened to Shaq when Wade went down in the 2005 ECF? Is your dumbass also gonna pretend that the Heat were even remotely close to being good outside these two? Again, '11 Rose on the '05 and '06 Heat would've resulted in 2nd round losses at BEST. How are you gonna act like you know ANYTHING about basketball, when you think Rose is a better overall player than Wade? Or that Wade can't "take over" games? Or that Wade can't win without another offensive player? Oh, and Shaq averaged 18 PPG in the '06 Playoffs. 19 the previous year.


:roll:

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?

Rose is an average defender at his BEST. Dude is not even on rookie Wade's level defensively.


A Rose stan talking about being beta? Ironic. :oldlol:

Anyways, we're talking about '11. The year when Wade averaged more points that LeBron in the Playoffs. The year when they were 1a and 1b. Try to keep up, Mr. Special needs.

I'm done with this discussion. It's pretty clear that you're biased to the point of being delusional. For the final time, Wade > Rose offensively and defensively. Wade > Rose as a player and it's not even close.


Is there really a need to get personal? Pointguard is simply laying out his reasoning and you start calling him names..

You lose all credibility by saying Wade is better than Rose as a player and it's not even close. :hammerhead:

[Papaya Petee]

Wade was better than Rose and it's not too close.

Outscored him in the regular season, outrebounded him averaged more blocks and steals on WAY better efficiency while losing shots to Lebron.
MUCH Better defender that year.
Poido youre delusional if you think Wade didnt receive a ton of defensivr attention because of Lebron:roll:

Wades series against Boston and Dallas that year blow away anything that Rose did in the playoffs that year.

Im on my phone so I'm not going to answer pointguards points till tomorrow night. But the overrating of Rose needs to stop.

[nathanjizzle]

Wade was better than Rose and it's not too close.

Outscored him in the regular season, outrebounded him averaged more blocks and steals on WAY better efficiency while losing shots to Lebron.
MUCH Better defender that year.
Poido youre delusional if you think Wade didnt receive a ton of defensivr attention because of Lebron:roll:

Wades series against Boston and Dallas that year blow away anything that Rose did in the playoffs that year.

Im on my phone so I'm not going to answer pointguards points till tomorrow night. But the overrating of Rose needs to stop.

heres some stats that will show rose played better than wade that season. Against elite competition which i accounted the top 4 teams in each conference, whom consisted of boston, chicago, orlando, miami, spurs, mavs, lakers and okc.

dwyane wade stats against those teams in 2010-11 were
21.4 points and 4.1 assists leading his team to a 7-12 record against those teams(a losing record)

rose's stats against those elite teams were
26.9 points and 6.7 assists and leading his team to 12-6 reason(a winning record).

womp womp, take your garbage basketball IQ somewhere else. The underating of roses mvp season needs to stop. idiots claiming westbrook and wade were better, what a ****ing joke. :roll:

[nathanjizzle]

wade vs rose against elite teams in 2011

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

wade was better?????? makes sense????

[tpols]

Wade was better than Rose and it's not too close.

Outscored him in the regular season, outrebounded him averaged more blocks and steals on WAY better efficiency while losing shots to Lebron.
MUCH Better defender that year.
Poido youre delusional if you think Wade didnt receive a ton of defensivr attention because of Lebron:roll:

Wades series against Boston and Dallas that year blow away anything that Rose did in the playoffs that year.

Im on my phone so I'm not going to answer pointguards points till tomorrow night. But the overrating of Rose needs to stop.
Wade had more help in that Dallas loss (where he massively choked btw) and especially in that boston and chicago series than rose ever had.

Wade was playing next to the best player in the league as a 100% robin. He could literally take whole series off with sub 20 ppg sub 50TS averages.. and have his team win.:oldlol:

Rose had to create offensive numbers under entirely more pressure. And he did so until the playoffs when teams could key in on one man teams.. 2011 Wade would've fared no better than Rose did. Wade choked worse in that Dallas series than he had in any other years.. talking 4th quarter closing minute crunch time stats. Lebron was just worse so he overshadowed him.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Rose had to create offensive numbers under entirely more pressure. And he did so until the playoffs when teams could key in on one man teams.
Even LeBron at the same age, 22, against the 2007 Spurs. Without Boobie Gibson being on fire. He performed just as awful. The over criticism of Derrick Rose's performance against the cowardly stacked 2011 Miami Heat is alarming to say the least.

[aj1987]

Is there really a need to get personal? Pointguard is simply laying out his reasoning and you start calling him names..

You lose all credibility by saying Wade is better than Rose as a player and it's not even close. :hammerhead:
When people think that Rose is an elite defender and that Wade can't carry a team, then there is no sensible debate to be had. Dude was just cherrypicking his arguments and completely ignoring the facts. Heck, he said that Wade took a step back in 2011, when he CLEARLY said that after the '11 season. Dude's an idiot.


Wade choked worse in that Dallas series than he had in any other years.. talking 4th quarter closing minute crunch time stats. Lebron was just worse so he overshadowed him.

Game 2 - Missed 2 3 points in the final ~40 seconds. Scored 9 points before that on 2-2 and 4-4 shooting. I put this loss on LeBron. Missed 4 shots and had a TOV after the lead.

Game 3 - 3/4 shooting for 7 points in the final ~6 minutes. A clutch 2 pt shot to put Miami up by 2. Bosh took and made the eventual game winner. 2 point win.

Game 4 - 3 points in the Final 30 seconds (1-1 and 1-2 FT's). Miller took and missed the game winner. 3 point loss.


heres some stats that will show rose played better than wade that season. Against elite competition which i accounted the top 4 teams in each conference, whom consisted of boston, chicago, orlando, miami, spurs, mavs, lakers and okc.

dwyane wade stats against those teams in 2010-11 were
21.4 points and 4.1 assists leading his team to a 7-12 record against those teams(a losing record)

rose's stats against those elite teams were
26.9 points and 6.7 assists and leading his team to 12-6 reason(a winning record).

womp womp, take your garbage basketball IQ somewhere else. The underating of roses mvp season needs to stop. idiots claiming westbrook and wade were better, what a ****ing joke. :roll:
With all those stats and beating "elite" teams, he surely must've made the Finals and won a ring, right? :oldlol:

[nathanjizzle]

With all those stats and beating "elite" teams, he surely must've made the Finals and won a ring, right? :oldlol:

what does that matter? the topic of discussion is who was better in 2010 -2011 and the stats show that rose played better. Their is really no argument to make otherwise besides hypothetical points like "wade is a better defender":roll: and "bulls with wade would have done better":roll: sykk

just face it, you believed and shared misinformation. in reality, rose won the mvp, wade had an elite team, and he wasnt even a thought for the conversation. it must be the media scheming against wade and lebron right? but wait, lebron was in the convo, but why not wade? lol

[aj1987]

what does that matter? the topic of discussion is who was better in 2010 -2011 and the stats show that rose played better. Their is really no argument to make otherwise besides hypothetical points like "wade is a better defender":roll: and "bulls with wade would have done better":roll: sykk

just face it, you believed and shared misinformation. in reality, rose won the mvp, wade had an elite team, and he wasnt even a thought for the conversation. it must be the media scheming against wade and lebron right? but wait, lebron was in the convo, but why not wade? lol
When the **** did I say Wade deserved the MVP? :facepalm

All I said was that Wade was the better player that year. Also, do you honestly believe that Rose was the better defender and offensive player? :facepalm

[nathanjizzle]

When the **** did I say Wade deserved the MVP? :facepalm

All I said was that Wade was the better player that year. Also, do you honestly believe that Rose was the better defender and offensive player? :facepalm

comprehend alittle harder. maybe i was insinuating that if wade played better than rose then he would have been in the mvp conversation

and yes, rose was the better offensive player that year and im not just talking about scoring, im talking about offensive creation. defensively, rose is as good or better at guarding his position as wade is. rose was just the better player that year. again 7-12 record against elite teams with lebron on your team, where was the leadership?

[aj1987]

comprehend alittle harder. maybe i was insinuating that if wade played better than rose then he would have been in the mvp conversation

and yes, rose was the better offensive player that year and im not just talking about scoring, im talking about offensive creation. defensively, rose is as good or better at guarding his position as wade is. rose was just the better player that year. again 7-12 record against elite teams with lebron on your team, where was the leadership?
Nope. Not with LeBron on the Heat. LeBron averaged 27/7/7/2/1 on near 60% TS with elite defense.

I don't know why you guys keep saying that Rose is a good defender. I don't like the DRtg stat (since it takes team defense into account more than individual defense), but Rose had a lower DRtg on a better defensive team. Even if you look at RAPM (another stat which I don't like to use), Wade was at 0.4 and Rose was at -1.2.

You keep bringing up the 7-12 stat, but fail to mention that 6 of those losses were against the Celtics and Bulls. The two team which Miami completely destroyed in the Playoffs (even with a struggling Wade in the ECF). 3 of those losses came during the initial stretch when Miami 8-9.

As PLAYERS, there is NO argument for taking Rose over Wade. Wade was the better offensive AND defensive player. I'm not saying that he deserved the MVP. As I said, there was NO way that Wade was winning MVP that season with LeBron on his team. Was was just the better player though.

BTW, don't forget that Wade got off to a slow start and really picked it up after the first ~15 games. 27/7/5/2/1 on 69% TS after the first 20 games. A 57 game sample size.

[nathanjizzle]

Nope. Not with LeBron on the Heat. LeBron averaged 27/7/7/2/1 on near 60% TS with elite defense.

I don't know why you guys keep saying that Rose is a good defender. I don't like the DRtg stat (since it takes team defense into account more than individual defense), but Rose had a lower DRtg on a better defensive team. Even if you look at RAPM (another stat which I don't like to use), Wade was at 0.4 and Rose was at -1.2.

You keep bringing up the 7-12 stat, but fail to mention that 6 of those losses were against the Celtics and Bulls. The two team which Miami completely destroyed in the Playoffs (even with a struggling Wade in the ECF). 3 of those losses came during the initial stretch when Miami 8-9.

As PLAYERS, there is NO argument for taking Rose over Wade. Wade was the better offensive AND defensive player. I'm not saying that he deserved the MVP. As I said, there was NO way that Wade was winning MVP that season with LeBron on his team. Was was just the better player though.

BTW, don't forget that Wade got off to a slow start and really picked it up after the first ~15 games. 27/7/5/2/1 on 69% TS after the first 20 games. A 57 game sample size.

idiot.

wade vs rose against elite teams in 2011

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

somehow this idiot thinks wade played better than rose that year. go figure.

[aj1987]

idiot.

wade vs rose against elite teams in 2011

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

somehow this idiot thinks wade played better than rose that year. go figure.
You're using a 19 game sample size, you ****ing chipmunk. :facepalm

Funny how you ignored the rest of my post.

Wade > Rose as a player. Now go play with your toys. You seem as mentally competent as Rose.

[GrapeApe]

How did this thread turn into Wade vs Rose? :oldlol:

Sticking with the OT, as a Heat fan I definitely wanted Rose over Beasley and was extremely disappointed with getting the #2 pick. A Rose/Wade backcort would've been pretty insane.

[Dresta]

They were 23 and 28th in offense without Rose. Carrying and winning with a young inexperienced team is very different than being the second best player on your team. No exceptions.

Wade has never had any success carrying a big offensive burden in like 12 years now. In his best year '09 it didn't happen.
:facepalm

Rose's team was a playoff team without him. Wade's team in 09 was the worst team in the league without him.

[Pointguard]

When people think that Rose is an elite defender and that Wade can't carry a team, then there is no sensible debate to be had. Dude was just cherrypicking his arguments and completely ignoring the facts. Heck, he said that Wade took a step back in 2011, when he CLEARLY said that after the '11 season. Dude's an idiot.
:lol You're so weak, I have mercy on you. I'll line up how silly you sound and we can debate all you want.

1)Where have I said Wade can't carry a team? I said he didn't have much success. Before '11 he was an all time great - I already said this. But once you go Beta its starts off as a lower standard.

2)And what idiot would think that becoming the second best player on your own team isn't a step back from competing for the best player in the game? Are you really this dense? You don't know the difference in being responsible and the key to your team winning and being number two? You really think that isn't a step down. Beta get some learning in.

3)I said Rose was a good defender because of his control of pace and holding down the elite at his position and he confused the hell out of Wade. Different if Wade was just missing but he didn't know what to do once he found out he couldn't over power Rose. I never said Rose was elite.

Your paragraph has no foundation at all but that's how you roll.

Thanks to the Chi-town contingent.

[Pointguard]

You're using a 19 game sample size, you ****ing chipmunk. :facepalm

Funny how you ignored the rest of my post.

Wade > Rose as a player. Now go play with your toys. You seem as mentally competent as Rose.
:lol It funny when you see someone, with a certain character, who knows he's losing the argument start trying to divert, start name calling, and trying to insult players. Why don't you grow up and try making sense.

What Nathan was showing you that Wade had fully embraced a second best player role. That's why he had no effect in the finals. When Lebron made it known he was going to take five mental health days, it wasn't like Dallas feared Wade at all. They had no fear that Wade was going to be effective in the series. They didn't throw the kitchen sink at Wade.

Wade didn't want to step up. He took 18 shots per game with Lebron practically begging him to take over. No way in hell would Rose have gone out with that type of whimper - much less with his shot going in. That mentality is why Dallas had no concern about Wade. And Wade was HOT!!! The mentality difference was huge. Wade was a number two not trying to be number one. That hurts your ranking. Wade in 2009 was great. But that doesn't do him any good in 2011.

[nathanjizzle]

You're using a 19 game sample size, you ****ing chipmunk. :facepalm

Funny how you ignored the rest of my post.

Wade > Rose as a player. Now go play with your toys. You seem as mentally competent as Rose.

:roll: "19 game sample size" its not a "sample" these 19 games are what actually matter in the season.

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

wade was better? mentally competent you say?

[Smoke117]

2011 Wade >> 2011 Rose. People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011.

[nathanjizzle]

2011 Wade >> 2011 Rose. People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011.

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

wades defense is really effective as you can tell by their record

[Pointguard]

2011 Wade >> 2011 Rose. People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011.
So all the guys who scored more than Dirk in 2011 were better than him??? And isn't Dirk considered a top PF despite not being a two way player? You have totally dismissed impact.

[tpols]

wade's defense is so overrated.. a few highlight shot blocks and staredowns will do that for him. He didnt have great impact defensively.. according to rapms hes 10x more valuable offensively than he is defensively.

And rose did more offensively given his situation and teamthan wade did..especially in the RS when his guys were out, and on gamewinners/closing against top teams when the heat shot like 10% on them all year with wade completely conceding the 'closer' role to lebron in their very first year together

[Smoke117]

So all the guys who scored more than Dirk in 2011 were better than him??? And isn't Dirk considered a top PF despite not being a two way player? You have totally dismissed impact.


What does Dirk have to do with anything?

[GrapeApe]

I like Rose as a player, but what exactly does he do better than Wade? 3 point shooting? Besides that, Wade is better at literally every aspect of basketball.

[tpols]

I like Rose as a player, but what exactly does he do better than Wade? 3 point shooting? Besides that, Wade is better at literally every aspect of basketball.

I dont think anyones arguing about their general attributes as players.. theyre arguing about what they actually DID.. in that specific year.. Rose was better. Dwight Howard may have been infinitely more impactful than dirk in 2011 if you look at their contributions to scoring, rebound, and defending as a whole, but Dirk performed better, no question.

If a player that normally shoots 10% on gamewinners has a year where he shoots 8/10 and a normally clutch closer has a year where he shoots 1/10, the first player was a better closer in that year despite not being a better closer generally and for their whole career. Its just that one year.. nobody had wade over rose.

[Pointguard]

What does Dirk have to do with anything?
"People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011."

I am talking about the method in which you judge a player.

[Smoke117]

"People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011."

I am talking about the method in which you judge a player.

I'm not judging any players. I barely put any thought into my response as I don't think this deserves it. Anyone who thinks Rose was as good or better than Wade in 2011 is an idiot. End of discussion.

[Pointguard]

I'm not judging any players. I barely put any thought into my response as I don't think this deserves it. Anyone who thinks Rose was as good or better than Wade in 2011 is an idiot. End of discussion.
:lol Do you ever put thoughts into any of your responses? And then you think you can call other people idiots. Do you ever back up your thoughts? There are plenty of points to pick apart if you can back up your thoughts. Why is it I know you won't?

[nathanjizzle]

I barely put any thought into my response.

:hammerhead:

[Smoke117]

:lol Do you ever put thoughts into any of your responses? And then you think you can call other people idiots. Do you ever back up your thoughts? There are plenty of points to pick apart if you can back up your thoughts. Why is it I know you won't?

It isn't worth it. That is the point.

[GrapeApe]

I dont think anyones arguing about their general attributes as players.. theyre arguing about what they actually DID.. in that specific year.. Rose was better. Dwight Howard may have been infinitely more impactful than dirk in 2011 if you look at their contributions to scoring, rebound, and defending as a whole, but Dirk performed better, no question.

If a player that normally shoots 10% on gamewinners has a year where he shoots 8/10 and a normally clutch closer has a year where he shoots 1/10, the first player was a better closer in that year despite not being a better closer generally and for their whole career. Its just that one year.. nobody had wade over rose.

That's fair. I hadn't really read through all the posts in this thread. Personally I have no issues with Rose's MVP. He was outstanding that year. However, I do feel that '11 Wade is a bit underrated. It's certainly debatable as to who had the better season between him and Rose, but it's difficult to compare them due to the differences in circumstance/roles. I'm willing to say Rose had a slightly, very slightly, better regular season.

[Jameerthefear]

2011 Regular Season
Lebron
Dwight
Dirk
Durant
Kobe
Wade
All better than Froze.

[Pointguard]

That's fair. I hadn't really read through all the posts in this thread. Personally I have no issues with Rose's MVP. He was outstanding that year. However, I do feel that '11 Wade is a bit underrated. It's certainly debatable as to who had the better season between him and Rose, but it's difficult to compare them due to the differences in circumstance/roles. I'm willing to say Rose had a slightly, very slightly, better regular season.

I really think peak Wade was crazy good, among the best ever. I do have a problem with him acting like a number 2 in the finals in 2011. Lebron had stepped down. Wade shot 61% from 2 point land and decided to not push the issue. He had not wanted to be the man on his team. He only shot 18 times per game. Even his 3point game was hot (30% for him). You just can't be effective backing away from your strength. His production was solid but its the game that he didn't play that bothered me. He was content to go down as a number 2. He had that convenience the whole year.

Its unfair for the guys who take on all the responsibility, being the key to how the games turn out and play hard all the time, to be compared to guys that can just play without much riding on their play.

[aj1987]

I really think peak Wade was crazy good, among the best ever. I do have a problem with him acting like a number 2 in the finals in 2011. Lebron had stepped down. Wade shot 61% from 2 point land and decided to not push the issue. He had not wanted to be the man on his team. He only shot 18 times per game. Even his 3point game was hot (30% for him). You just can't be effective backing away from your strength. His production was solid but its the game that he didn't play that bothered me. He was content to go down as a number 2. He had that convenience the whole year.

Its unfair for the guys who take on all the responsibility, being the key to how the games turn out and play hard all the time, to be compared to guys that can just play without much riding on their play.
How hard is it to understand simple English?

Wade and LeBron were 1a and 1b in 2011. Wade said that he was going to take a step back and let LeBron do his thing AFTER the 2011 season. He was still prime Wade and was pretty much the leader of the team along with LeBron.

Also we're discussing their abilities as players and Wade was clearly the better player. He would've put up gaudy numbers if he didn't have to share the ball with LeBron.

[Pointguard]

How hard is it to understand simple English?

Wade and LeBron were 1a and 1b in 2011. Wade said that he was going to take a step back and let LeBron do his thing AFTER the 2011 season. He was still prime Wade and was pretty much the leader of the team along with LeBron.

Also we're discussing their abilities as players and Wade was clearly the better player. He would've put up gaudy numbers if he didn't have to share the ball with LeBron.
No, I am talking about impact. Wade has Jordan abilities - but so what if he doesn't push the issue and doesn't take on the responsibility to win the game. He was not ready to step it up. In '11 Wade was shooting a lot better than he was in '06 from 2pt land and 3 pt land. The difference wasn't because he thought he was 1b. He took 40 less shots because he didn't take on the same responsibility. And responsibility was never equal to Rose's that year. Even his outlook was less.

[ballinhun8]

2011 Regular Season
Lebron
Dwight
Dirk
Durant
Kobe
Wade
All better than Froze.


Translation -

I just started watching basketball in 2013

[Lord Bean]

how are people say lebron better than rose in 2011 ?

[aj1987]

No, I am talking about impact. Wade has Jordan abilities - but so what if he doesn't push the issue and doesn't take on the responsibility to win the game. He was not ready to step it up. In '11 Wade was shooting a lot better than he was in '06 from 2pt land and 3 pt land. The difference wasn't because he thought he was 1b. He took 40 less shots because he didn't take on the same responsibility. And responsibility was never equal to Rose's that year. Even his outlook was less.
Wade was playing with LeBron. LeBron and Bosh were taking a combined 32 shots per game. Wade went from being THE man on his team to sharing with LeBron. That's why I keep telling you look at their abilities as players. Not team success. Wade was still in his prime and putting up great numbers (while giving up the ball a LOT to LeBron and Bosh). Do you honestly think that two guys like Wade and LeBron would co-exist with both of them demanding 20 shots a game and demanding the ball every possession to make plays. Both players sacrificed and it actually helped the team after they started gelling a bit (until LeBron's implosion in the Finals).

This is the reason why I asked to you imagine Wade in Rose's place. Wade on the Bulls and Rose on the Heat. Wade would still be the clear cut alpha. Not a co-alpha like he was on the Heat.

Anyways, this discussion is going nowhere. We're just repeating ourselves. Lets just agree to disagree.

[TheNaturalWR]

This idiot really saying Wade was a beta in 2011? On what ****ing planet were Wade's numbers beta? On what ****ing planet is 26.5/7/5/2/2 on 55%FG in the NBA ****ING FINALS beta? He played better than the Finals MVP for god's sake. I actually like Rose but what the hell? Dude wasn't even close to Wade in 2011. And then I see people bringing up the Chicago series acting like despite struggling he didn't step up in the clutch? We going to act like he didn't tear the Celtics a new one? Wade and LeBron were the definition of 1a and 1b that year. My lord, the disrespect of Wade is ridiculous. The previous year he took a shit team to the playoffs and put up 33 PPG on 56%FG so lets' not act like Wade's numbers were attributed to LeBron because if anything it was a hindrance to his bulk stats.

[TheNaturalWR]

No, I am talking about impact. Wade has Jordan abilities - but so what if he doesn't push the issue and doesn't take on the responsibility to win the game. He was not ready to step it up. In '11 Wade was shooting a lot better than he was in '06 from 2pt land and 3 pt land. The difference wasn't because he thought he was 1b. He took 40 less shots because he didn't take on the same responsibility. And responsibility was never equal to Rose's that year. Even his outlook was less.

This is just so blatantly false.

And this is just so stupid as an argument.

[tpols]

This idiot really saying Wade was a beta in 2011? On what ****ing planet were Wade's numbers beta? On what ****ing planet is 26.5/7/5/2/2 on 55%FG in the NBA ****ING FINALS beta? .

Because he conceded first option to lebron.

Because he conceded clutch/last second shot to Lebron..

Because he conceded the majority of shots/possesion to Lebron..

Because defenses were more concerned with lebron than wade all year..

Because he was allowed a series before the finals to happen where he scored 19 ppg on sub 50TS shooting and allowed lebron(and bosh) to carry his ass to the finals..



Yea he scored well in the finals.. on limited shot attempts in single coverage with terrible closing? So what? Does that negate the fact that he was second option all along? Does that negate the fact that rose himself shut him down in their only head to head series??

Wade stepped down in 2011 compared to his traditional roles in 2009 and 2010.. he was a 'beta'. Rose was an alpha one many offensive star on his team.. and stepped up more individually than wade did.. while he coasted and waited for all the rings promised to him for joining the big 3.

[FPJ]

When i thought this forum couldn't get any dumber (cause of that Knicks fan) the Bulls fans step up their game.

[nathanjizzle]

Hypothetically if wade didnt have to share the ball with lebron, he would have been better than rose argument.

21 points 4 assists 7/12 vs 27 points 7 assists 12/7. Wade played better?

[20Four]

2011 Regular Season
Lebron
Dwight
Dirk
Durant
Kobe
Wade
All better than Froze.
lol this bitch....let the adults talk...k? Go play with yo barbie's Ph^ggot