Phil Jackson compares Kobe to MJ

[Da_Realist]

Phil Jackson compares Kobe to MJ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s)

Interesting...

[pethuel03]

I really dont agree on the skills part..

offense:
athleticism - jordan is much stronger and i think imo is a better leaper, runs the floor better
shooting - kobe is the better 3 pt shooter but overall shooting, i would take jordan every day of the week

driving to the hoop - its obvious

defense - no need to elaborate

[Da_Realist]

I found it interesting because Phil Jackson is known to be somewhat diplomatic. He currently coaches Kobe so I don't think he would say something that may flare up an old wound.

I don't think we'll know his true thoughts until well after he retires. If anybody could compare the two -- not just playing styles, but leadership, practice habits, camaraderie and other non-public aspects of their persona most fans don't get to see -- it would be Phil Jackson.

[RIMMER]

Compare them all you want, but Kobe blew a 24 point lead and got blown out by 39 points in the Finals.

[danumber88]

I really dont agree on the skills part..

offense:
athleticism - jordan is much stronger and i think imo is a better leaper, runs the floor better
shooting - kobe is the better 3 pt shooter but overall shooting, i would take jordan every day of the week

driving to the hoop - its obvious

defense - no need to elaborate

Kobe and his defense is undeated... their defense is pretty close

[Indian guy]

Kobe's a better ball handler which helps him create jump shots better than MJ. He can get to spots on the floor, rise up and shoot with more ease than MJ IMO. I think that's what Phil meant when he once said last season that "Kobe is better with the ball". But, does being better at na aspect of the game(shot creation) make you the player with better basketball skills? MJ IS superior to Kobe at driving+finishing, post-up game, off ball play, defense, rebounding and passing. Shouldn't that make him the player with better basketball skills? Most likely. I'll still say this, I don't have a problem with someone saying Kobe's a more skilled scorer than MJ. Doesn't make him as effective, since he neither scores as much as MJ nor as efficiently as him.

This isn't a recent interview, btw. It was taken in February.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

what is interesting is the mere fact that PJax deems them to be comparable.

[pethuel03]

Kobe and his defense is undeated... their defense is pretty close


i dont know...kobe just wants to defend when he likes too..he's lazy sometimes..not like jordan who played intelligent defense on almost possesions. Also he guarded one of the finest players magic, bird, reggie, payton,

[guy]

Kobe and his defense is undeated... their defense is pretty close

Come on man really? How can you say that after the way Pierce and Allen abused him in the Finals? And he didn't deserve to get defensive teams over Shane Battier and Ron Artest. He's definitely overrated on defense.

[sixerfan82]

Compare them all you want, but Kobe blew a 24 point lead and got blown out by 39 points in the Finals.

/thread

[Lebron23]

Come on man really? How can you say that after the way Pierce and Allen abused him in the Finals? And he didn't deserve to get defensive teams over Shane Battier and Ron Artest. He's definitely overrated on defense.


I completely agree that Kobe Bryant is one of the most overrated defender in the NBA. :lol

[Knoe Itawl]

:oldlol: @ the thought of Kobe being an underrated defender. Defense is by far the most overrated aspect of Kobe's game..

This is because we live in an age where every current NBA superstar has a rep of being a great offensive player, but a bad defensive player. So the Kobe homers decided to create this image of Kobe so that he looks like the only current superstar who is great on both ends. His D is not close to MJ.

And as for the Phil Jackson video, the only thing Kobe is better than MJ is outside shooting. That's it. Phil is currently coaching Kobe, how would it sound if he said the truth, that MJ is clearly a better player? Of course he's gonna make it sound as blurry as possible.

How can that be when he never shows it in the PLAYOFFS?

And no one should take anything Phil says on this subject seriously until he retires or stops coaching Kobe.

[23jordan23]

Heres just my opinion:

Inside scoring-Jordan
Dribbles-Kobe
Jump Shot-toss up (on Average) ..(Cluth situation/Game on the line)-Jordan
Dunks-Jordan
Defense-Jordan
3points-i'd give the edge to Kobe
Passing-Jordan
Post up-Jordan

Im not even trying to be biased, but I feel Jordan beats him in most category's.

[guy]

Heres just my opinion:

Inside scoring-Jordan
Dribbles-Kobe
Jump Shot-toss up (on Average) ..(Cluth situation/Game on the line)-Jordan
Dunks-Jordan
Defense-Jordan
3points-i'd give the edge to Kobe
Passing-Jordan
Post up-Jordan

Im not even trying to be biased, but I feel Jordan beats him in most category's.

Agreed. I'd also add:

Driving to the basket - Jordan
Rebounding - Jordan

[iamgine]

I don't know what people disagree about

Clearly PJ is saying that Jordan was a much better player than Kobe. The only reason he (after long hesitation) said that Kobe has better overall skillset is because Kobe has range while MJ not so much. But then he said MJ's inside game is #1 while Oscar Robertson is #2.

[BIGSHOT]

No surprise this thread was created by a Jordan groupie.:oldlol:
Kobe> Jordan.

[TmacsRockets]

No surprise this thread was created by a Jordan groupie.:oldlol:
Kobe> Jordan.

Where are Kobe's finals MVP's and top 50 finals performances?

Jordan has 6 finals mvp's and all 6 of his finals are top 25.

Stop f***** trolling.

[DCL]

after what just happened in the finals, people still have the delusion to compare kobe to the real thing?

phil choked for like 5 seconds because he was afraid of answering the question frankly. he had to dance around it like a poor politician.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Obviously, PJax, along with every other sane person, knows that MJ is the greater player (and always will be). BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

The point is that they ARE comparable. Any time you compare someone to one of the GOATs, it speaks volumes about that player.

[Da_Realist]

after what just happened in the finals, people still have the delusion to compare kobe to the real thing?

phil choked for like 5 seconds because he was afraid of answering the question frankly. he had to dance around it like a poor politician.

:roll: That's funny as hell. I didn't notice that...

[Kobe=MVP07`]

Heres just my opinion:

Inside scoring-Jordan
Dribbles-Kobe
Jump Shot-toss up (on Average) ..(Cluth situation/Game on the line)-Jordan
Dunks-Jordan
Defense-Jordan
3points-i'd give the edge to Kobe
Passing-Jordan
Post up-Jordan

Im not even trying to be biased, but I feel Jordan beats him in most category's.

im sorry but kobe is extremely under rated when it comes to passing, just b/c he doesnt have 12 ast a game doesnt mean he is an avg passer
he makes alot of nice passes but thats not what makes him a very good passer, he knows the angles/speed/timing and sees the floor

With the Posting up issue many analysts say kobe is the best post up player today thing is he doesnt post up as much as MJ did that was the focus of the offense to have

MJ was there post presence
If you watched the spurs series this year or the suns series 2 years ago you would of seen how effiecient he was when he posted [50%+ fg vs the spurs]

D i give the edge to MJ b/c KB [like myself] is not interested in playing man D until the last few mins of a game on the opposing teams best player he'd rather play passing lanes and play help position D ect,,

Inside scoring MJ also has the edge ..the guy is clearly bigger and i feel had better hops/hang time

Dunks is not a big deal they are both up there in that catagory Kobe taking the baseline dunk to a new level

[Knoe Itawl]

Obviously, PJax, along with every other sane person, knows that MJ is the greater player (and always will be). BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

The point is that they ARE comparable. Any time you compare someone to one of the GOATs, it speaks volumes about that player.

If you look at Jordan's career, and all he accomplished (specifically in the playoffs) they aren't comparable.

If you're going by playing style, body type and high scoring regular season games than maybe they are.

But overall? Nah. Not comparable.

[Loki]

I found it interesting because Phil Jackson is known to be somewhat diplomatic. He currently coaches Kobe so I don't think he would say something that may flare up an old wound.

Yup. LOL @ anyone who thinks that Jackson could have answered that question any differently and still maintained a peaceful relationship with Kobe "ego" Bryant. :oldlol:


This was actually a 7+ minute interview, of which we hear only a part in this video. It's funny how Phil clears his throat like 12 times and hesitates for 37 seconds before answering that loaded question. :oldlol: And then he goes on to describe all the ways in which Jordan is superior to Kobe. I thought that was very telling.

I also don't think that Kobe is as skilled as Jordan. Lots of Kobe fans who never saw prime Jordan like to talk nonsense. Kobe is a better shooter beyond 23 feet, and has a better "modern" handle (read: And-1 style; I don't think it counts for much, personally, since Jordan could get wherever he wanted and get any shot against any type of defense). Jordan was a significantly better rebounder, a moderately better passer, a (more moderately) better playmaker, had better footwork (and Jordan's came naturally, and he was the originator), a far better post game, was far better off the ball, and was superior in every aspect of defense, particularly help/team defense where he takes a massive dump on Kobe.

So if Kobe's 3-point shooting and "handle" is enough to offset all that, then I don't know what to say. I also don't think that Kobe is nearly the decision maker or has nearly the court awareness and ability to read defenders/defenses like Jordan did. Those are skills too, you know. Kobe doesn't have the same sense of when a defender's weight is shifted that Jordan had.

[Mr. Bryant]

Just imagine if Phil actually told everyone the truth about how over hyped and overrated jordon was. It would just destroy the NBA and a lot of its delusional fans.

Phil knew this and was pondering on what to say as he was asked the question because obviously having better basketball skills makes you a better player.

[Loki]

im sorry but kobe is extremely under rated when it comes to passing, just b/c he doesnt have 12 ast a game doesnt mean he is an avg passer

Kobe is not an average passer (he's very good, especially for his position), but he's not as good as Jordan was in that regard.


With the Posting up issue many analysts say kobe is the best post up player today thing is he doesnt post up as much as MJ did

Kobe's post game is primitive next to Jordan's. Period. I don't know how anyone who watched both extensively could say otherwise. Unless they have Laker avatars, that is. :oldlol:

[Loki]

jordon

:oldlol:

I mean really, how can anyone see this interview as anything but diplomacy towards his current player? The clearing of the throat, the long pause, the "yeah, he...,he is" and then proceeding to detail how Jordan is superior (rather than detail how Kobe is) etc. I mean, come on... :oldlol:

[Kobe=MVP07`]

Kobe is not an average passer (he's very good, especially for his position), but he's not as good as Jordan was in that regard.



Kobe's post game is primitive next to Jordan's. Period. I don't know how anyone who watched both extensively could say otherwise. Unless they have Laker avatars, that is. :oldlol:
ah yes we have been expecting you loki
i wondering when you would make your appearence to yet another jordan thread:)

Mike had developed his postup -fadeaway very nicely into the 90s

but posting up generally i feel it is b/c the triangle phil employed with the bulls team included jordan posting up alot more often
And in the laker teams he had shaq to do the posting and really never went back to posting kobe
but when you watch kobe post you see why is one of the GOATs he was working in the post the whole spurs series and they crushed the champs with his Jordan-esque FG%..

[Loki]

ah yes we have been expecting you loki
i wondering when you would make your appearence to yet another jordan thread:)

Mike had developed his postup -fadeaway very nicely into the 90s

but posting up generally i feel it is b/c the triangle phil employed with the bulls team included jordan posting up alot more often
And in the laker teams he had shaq to do the posting and really never went back to posting kobe
but when you watch kobe post you see why is one of the GOATs he was working in the post the whole spurs series and they crushed the champs with his Jordan-esque FG%..

First off, Kobe was not working in the post that much in the SA series. Don't act like you're the only one who saw the series. :oldlol:

Secondly, Jordan's post superiority isn't because of his "fadeaway," it's because he was better and craftier at establishing position, could read his defender better, had many more moves and fakes, and was just very intuitive down there. There's really no comparison between their post games imo. The only area of the game where the difference between them is larger is team/help defense.

[mjbulls23]

comon Da Realist, you didn't have to post this old interview again.

And as for everyone else, why you guys even talk to most Kobe fans on this site is beyond me.

[97 bulls]

i remember someone asking tex winter why kobe wasnt used in the post more and he said because kobe cant hold his position. how many times have we seen kobe start out demanding the ball about 5 feet from the basket and then getting it about 20 feet out? and personally, i dont think kobe is a better 3pt shooter than prime jordan. when jordan 1st came in the league he was like a 15% 3pt shooter, in his prime, he like a 36% 3pt shooter. while kobe is at about 33%.

[juju151111]

No surprise this thread was created by a Jordan groupie.:oldlol:
Kobe> Jordan.
wait u still think kome is better then mj???why?

[juju151111]

ah yes we have been expecting you loki
i wondering when you would make your appearence to yet another jordan thread:)

Mike had developed his postup -fadeaway very nicely into the 90s

but posting up generally i feel it is b/c the triangle phil employed with the bulls team included jordan posting up alot more often
And in the laker teams he had shaq to do the posting and really never went back to posting kobe
but when you watch kobe post you see why is one of the GOATs he was working in the post the whole spurs series and they crushed the champs with his Jordan-esque FG%..
he wasn't really taking alot of turnaround jumpers shots.he backed him down wayy near the rim and just turned around and lay it in.he was way stronger then brewer which is why he pushed hum wayy far back near the rim.

[Da_Realist]

By the way, what's Mychal Thompson smoking? :pimp:

[HANNIBAL SMITH]

:oldlol: Not this sh!t again. Another "Jordan lovers suck off Jordan vs Kobe lovers suck off Kobe" fest type of thread. Fucc outta here.

[TmacsRockets]

Comparing Kobe to MJ is like comparing Stephon Marbury to Magic Johnson

[HANNIBAL SMITH]

Or like Comparing T-Mac to.... Kobe :oldlol:

[TmacsRockets]

Or like Comparing T-Mac to.... Kobe :oldlol:

Actually no, because T-mac has actually led the league in PER. Has Kobe done that?

Oh and Kobe has never gotten out of the 1st round without Phil Jackson even though he still had a Hall of Fame coach in Rudy T and superstar Caron Butler.

[HANNIBAL SMITH]

:oldlol: T-Mac has never gotten out of the first round...................AT ALL despite having the best center in the league and having home court advantage. Yao is a superstar by the way.

:roll: @ Using coaching as a excuse. Caron Butler a superstar? As a Laker? Are you serious? You ougta slap yaself for that one. Caron wasn't nearly as good then as he is now.

[TmacsRockets]

:oldlol: T-Mac has never gotten out of the first round...................AT ALL despite having the best center in the league and having home court advantage. Yao is a superstar by the way.

:roll: @ Using coaching as a excuse. Caron Butler a superstar? As a Laker? Are you serious? You ougta slap yaself for that one. Caron wasn't nearly as good then as he is now.

That's because Kobe doesn't make others around him better. Odom has gotten worse playing with Kobe and Butler got better playing with Arenas.

Kobe has to get guys who are already good stars to play with. He can't help aid someone and make them better.

On a side note, we are not taking about T-mac here.

[Jimmy2k8]

Oh and Kobe has never gotten out of the 1st round without Phil Jackson even though he still had a Hall of Fame coach in Rudy T and superstar Caron Butler.

1. Rudy T resigned during the 05 season.

2. Caron Butler was never a superstar in 05, dwit.

[guy]

Actually no, because T-mac has actually led the league in PER. Has Kobe done that?

Oh and Kobe has never gotten out of the 1st round without Phil Jackson even though he still had a Hall of Fame coach in Rudy T and superstar Caron Butler.

T-Mac is one of my favorite players, while I don't like Kobe that much. But still, I can only say Kobe > T-Mac. For every flaw of Kobe there's a bigger flaw of T-Mac. Maybe in 2005, this was an argument, but just like the Jordan-Kobe comparisons should've stopped a long time ago, any Kobe-T-Mac comparisons should've stopped a long time ago.

[Jimmy2k8]

That's because Kobe doesn't make others around him better. Odom has gotten worse playing with Kobe and Butler got better playing with Arenas.

Yep. Kobe doesn't make Odom any better. You left out the part where Odom sucked as a 2nd option and was on the sidelines in 05 and 07.


Kobe has to get guys who are already good stars to play with. He can't help aid someone and make them better.

:oldlol: Perhaps you forgotten that the Lakers had Kwame Brown, a goof ball that can't even catch the ball. And he can't even make a single layup. You forget that the Lakers had Smush Parker, who was horrible on the defensive end and was a team cancer. Who can forget about Brian Cook? That ****er is horrible on defense end, and does nothing but chuck three pointers. Get my drift?

Btw, great players need great teammates.

[HANNIBAL SMITH]

That's because Kobe doesn't make others around him better. Odom has gotten worse playing with Kobe and Butler got better playing with Arenas.

Kobe has to get guys who are already good stars to play with. He can't help aid someone and make them better.

On a side note, we are not taking about T-mac here.



:oldlol: Kobe led a team that started Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke *****in Walton into the playoffs and had them playing at a high level against the suns in tune of a 3-1 series lead. Fast forward 2 years later, Smush and Kwame cant even start and get playing time on LOTTERY TEAMS , and Walton is the worst small forward on the Lakers now. If thats not making players better than i don't know what is.


Odom got worse? Odom done had some of his best shooting percentages in his career playing with Kobe, just like every player that plays with Kobe now. Odom's refusal to put in time and work on his game is why that he hasn't grown as a player despite being in the league 10 years, it's all on ODOM.


:oldlol: @ T-Mac making people better, like who exactly does he make better on the rockets? Shane Battier? Yao? They were good before they played with MAC.

[BrianScalabrine]

They are both the most overrated players of all time in all sports.

[Sroek]

Compare them all you want, but Kobe blew a 24 point lead and got blown out by 39 points in the Finals.

I thought there were 5 players in a basketball lineup.

[Jimmy2k8]

Tmacsrockets magically disappears. :oldlol:

[RapsFan]

Heres just my opinion:

Inside scoring-Jordan
Dribbles-Kobe
Jump Shot-toss up (on Average) ..(Cluth situation/Game on the line)-Jordan
Dunks-Jordan
Defense-Jordan
3points-i'd give the edge to Kobe
Passing-Jordan
Post up-Jordan

Im not even trying to be biased, but I feel Jordan beats him in most category's.

I think that if Jordan wanted to be a great 3 pt shooter, he could have hit tons. He was just more efficient then that.

And in terms of ball handling, it's CRAZY to think Kobe was better. Just because MJ wasn't as flashy, his ball handling skills were basically the best in the NBA, including PGs. I recall announcers covering a game talking about MJ having 'legendary ball handling abilities'. I don't know why but I always remembered that.

It's been said over and over....but the era Jordan played in was the best in basketball. No hand checking today made the game so much easier. Jordan had guys grabbing and clutching him all game and still did what he did. He would have been unguardable if he was able to face up his defender at the 3 point line and dribble at him full steam, and his defender not able to hand check him.

[Loki]

Jordan was easily the best handling SG/SF of his era ('85-'93) just like Kobe is the best in his era. The difference in their handle is ENTIRELY attributable to a cultural difference in the game nowadays (see: And-1).

It's funny that at least one, if not both, of Kobe's "advantages" over Jordan (I have it in quotes because I don't feel that his ballhandling allows him to do anything that Jordan couldn't) are based on era, whereas Jordan's advantages are timeless and would translate to any era. If Jordan came up today, he would undoubtedly be Kobe's equal or superior in terms of ballhanding. Kobe's 3-point shooting can also be viewed as due to a cultural shift in the game (3's being seen as more valuable nowadays than they used to be), though that is a legitimate advantage imo.

[amfirst]

I think they are both closer than most people would want to believe. The teenage Kobe did not fear MJ and ran with him pretty well back in the days. You knew young Kobe was going to be great when u saw them match against each other.

[Loki]

I think they are both closer than most people would want to believe.

:oldlol:

[Shepseskaf]

I think that if Jordan wanted to be a great 3 pt shooter, he could have hit tons.
* See Game 1 of the 1992 Bulls-Blazers series.


And in terms of ball handling, it's CRAZY to think Kobe was better.
I agree. It seems that someone in this thread put out the ridiculous notion that Kobe had a better handle, and no one refuted it. IMO, MJ was clearly superior in this respect. A decisive factor was the fact that his hands were huge, allowing him to have far more control over the ball than Kobe does.

[TBurge]

You can't really compare them because they played in different eras. How can you say Jordan is the better defender when he was allowed to be more physical? If the league was like it used to be, Kobe might be a very good defender.

And for the people who say Kobe Bryant is a bad defender... who do you want Team USA to put in Ginobli, Barbosa, etc....???????????

[GOBB]

Wow another Kobe/MJ thread and its not deleted? Ok.

[Loki]

* See Game 1 of the 1992 Bulls-Blazers series.


I agree. It seems that someone in this thread put out the ridiculous notion that Kobe had a better handle, and no one refuted it. IMO, MJ was clearly superior in this respect. A decisive factor was the fact that his hands were huge, allowing him to have far more control over the ball than Kobe does.

Jordan had a better handle than Kobe in these respects:

- He was a more fundamentally sound handler who rarely got stripped either on the perimeter or in the lane.

- He lost the ball (unforced error) less frequently than Kobe.

He was at least Kobe's equal in handles in the following respect:

- Able to get to any spot on the floor whenever he wanted against any sort of defensive pressure or situation.

Where Kobe has the edge is in this fancy new-age And-1 nonsense. Basically face-up ballhandling. And at that, I don't think Kobe would be better than Jordan if MJ came up today, because the game has just changed in that regard.

[Loki]

You can't really compare them because they played in different eras. How can you say Jordan is the better defender when he was allowed to be more physical? If the league was like it used to be, Kobe might be a very good defender.

Kobe was allowed to be just as physical (if not more so) until 2005. And even now he gets away with TONS of contact when he goe sinto his "I'm gonna lock a guy down" mode once every few months. Jordan was just a better defender, period.

Jordan had better, quicker hands, far better anticipation, better lateral movement, was stronger etc. The area of defense where a Kobe who is TRYING is closest to Jordan is 1-on-1 defense (I'd say at each of their bests in this area, Kobe is about 90% of Jordan; Jordan's edge comes from slightly better lateral movement and the ability to put more pressure on the ball). In every other area of defense, however -- which includes team, help, off-the-ball, post D, fastbreak D etc. -- Jordan just takes a steaming dump on Kobe from a great height. Those areas aren't even close. And that makes Jordan a significantly better overall defender than Kobe, to say nothing of the fact that he exerted more energy on that end more regularly than Kobe does. Jordan doesn't hide on Rajan Rondo, I'll tell you that much.

[Indian guy]

LOKI, don't you think due to fancier/more creative face up ballhandling, Kobe is better at unsettling his defender? Especially with the dribble already on. I think it makes the offensive player less predictable. MJ with his initial move generally made the direction he was going to pretty clear. He was still a terrific ball handler due to his freakish quickness and ball control, but I'm not buying that he's better than Kobe. Kobe could do everything MJ can + more. It's his only real advantage over MJ IMO. Sure, he's a better 3pt shooter, but at no point while watching MJ did I ever think him not being a comparable 3pt shooter was limiting him in any way on the basketball court.

[Heilige]

LOKI, don't you think due to fancier/more creative face up ballhandling, Kobe is better at unsettling his defender? Especially with the dribble already on. I think it makes the offensive player less predictable. MJ with his initial move generally made the direction he was going to pretty clear. He was still a terrific ball handler due to his freakish quickness and ball control, but I'm not buying that he's better than Kobe. Kobe could do everything MJ can + more. It's his only real advantage over MJ IMO. Sure, Kobe's a better 3pt shooter, but at no point while watching MJ did I ever think him not being a good 3pt shooter was hurting him in his comparison to Kobe.


Don't mean to go off-topic but I have always wondered your thoughts on:

How do you think Kobe personally feels towards whether or not he will ever be the best basketball player ever? How does Kobe feel he stacks against Jordan?

[Loki]

Sure, Kobe's a better 3pt shooter, but at no point while watching MJ did I ever think him not being a good 3pt shooter was hurting him in his comparison to Kobe.

Nor does his ballhandling hurt him in comparison to Kobe, since he could find good shots more easily than Kobe in any situation anyway.

As for your first point, his handle might allow him to get guys "unsettled" as you say more on face-ups, but I feel that Jordan was far better at recognizing and capitalizing on when guys were unsettled. So it all evens out. Kobe might shake a guy a bit, but then hesitates or takes another dribble or doesn't attack in the optimal way based on how the defender bit. Jordan always did.

EDIT: It ultimately doesn't matter to me anyway, because it doesn't make Kobe as effective a player or scorer as Jordan was anyway, so if he's better at one small aspect of scoring, who cares? And again, all of Jordan's advantages translate to any era, while Kobe's advantage is era-dependent. Jordan would at least equal if not exceed Kobe's handle if he came up today.

[Fatal9]

This comparison already ended a month ago...


Do we really need to be reminded every week that Kobe is a better 3 pt shooter while Jordan is better at everything else worthwhile?

[Indian guy]

EDIT: It ultimately doesn't matter to me anyway, because it doesn't make Kobe as effective a player or scorer as Jordan was anyway, so if he's better at one small aspect of scoring, who cares? And again, all of Jordan's advantages translate to any era, while Kobe's advantage is era-dependent. Jordan would at least equal if not exceed Kobe's handle if he came up today.

Ha, guess my need for MJ to be better than Kobe at everything is so great that when I do watch 'em both play, the ball handling advantage that I believe Kobe enjoys feels pretty glaring since it does give him an edge at an aspect of the game that really matters(unlike 3pt shooting). You're right, it doesn't matter in the overall comparison but what can I do man...while rewatching old Bulls games I can't help but wish MJ had the new age handle.

[Loki]

while rewatching old Bulls games I can't help but wish MJ had the new age handle.

It honestly wouldn't be fair for the league. Jordan could just face guys up, pick a direction, and explode past them. Now you're going to give him a new school handle to shake guys? Crazy... :oldlol:

Btw, I just saw your PM on youtube asking about the same, so I guess these posts will suffice as a response. :D

[Indian guy]

It honestly wouldn't be fair for the league.

Indeed. Which is why I so desperately wish he had it. I mean, it's not asking for much.


Btw, I just saw your PM on youtube asking about the same, so I guess these posts will suffice as a response.

I guess, but not the exact response I was looking for :D. You gotta agree though that bruce is an idiot?

[Loki]

You gotta agree though that bruce is an idiot?

Yeah, a difference of opinion is not a reason to ban someone from posting comments.

[Indian guy]

Yeah, a difference of opinion is not a reason to ban someone from posting comments.

Nah dude, I don't really care about the banning. I meant the stuff he says - MJ "easily" averaging 45 today and all the other deluded crap about LeBron. You can't take him seriously.

[Loki]

Nah dude, I don't really care about the banning. I meant the stuff he says - MJ "easily" averaging 45 today and all the other deluded crap about LeBron. You can't take him seriously.

Yeah, I've never been one that says stuff like Jordan would average 45 ppg today -- that's just crazy imo. I do think he would be at 32.5-35 ppg on 49-52% shooting (on the lower end of that FG% range when at the higher ppg end), and his full line would be something like 33.5/6.4-6.7 reb/5.8-6.2 ast/2.5+ stl/1+ blk/49-51% FG while being first team defense and a perennial top 5 DPOY candidate. He would lead the league in PER and EFF (and Win Shares and Player Wins) just like he did back then. This is talking about 25-30 year old Jordan.

Part of me honestly thinks that Jordan would put up even more insane steal/block numbers today than he did back then, since he would be allowed to play an area instead of a man, and could sag off more when appropriate. Players are also more careless with the ball nowadays especially on passes. Honestly, his '88 season (259 steal/131 blk) might be something like 275 stl/150 blk today (3.4 stl/1.8 blk).

[23jordan23]

im sorry but kobe is extremely under rated when it comes to passing, just b/c he doesnt have 12 ast a game doesnt mean he is an avg passer
he makes alot of nice passes but thats not what makes him a very good passer, he knows the angles/speed/timing and sees the floor

With the Posting up issue many analysts say kobe is the best post up player today thing is he doesnt post up as much as MJ did that was the focus of the offense to have

Dunks is not a big deal they are both up there in that catagory Kobe taking the baseline dunk to a new level


As you said about Kobe's Passing, was also something Jordan never really got full credit for.. as he did for his other talents..Jordan had some sweet no looks and just knew how to draw attention and make the quick outside/open pass.

For posting,lets face it Kobe took alot of pages out of the book of Jordan..he perfected the kraft of the post up...Kobe just took it and ran with it..But you'd rarely see Jordan force up a fade-away,usually it was a guarantee 2 points..and it was almost like a Kareem Sky hook..(obviously not as dominant)

And for dunks...Jordan had his own style ..his motion ...his legs swaying...the angled flight ..with his head looking down the rim and the tongue out...Kobe is a good dunker,lets face it Jordan could have done most of Kobe's dunks in his sleep ...can the same be said for Kobe??? for example the freethrow..or rock the cradle?

[emsteez forreal]

what is interesting is the mere fact that PJax deems them to be comparable.

i think it's funny how as mere people who have probably had no contact with jordan or kobe other than seeing them play at a game completely ignore and debunk the opinions of the coaches, analysts and other professional basketball players that have seen him play everyday, practice, workout, and spend nearly every waking moment with him over a span of 9 months .

[BIZARRO]

Kobe was the only guy playing in the finals for the Lakers?

No, but that is only one of 7,159,654 reasons why Jordan is superior to Kobe.

It is not even close. It's not even close to close. It's not even close to close to being close.

Never was, never will be.

To even compare them is a disprespect to the overwhelming and supreme greatness of the one and only Michael Jordan.

There is a period after that sentence.

[Loki]

Kobe was the only guy playing in the finals for the Lakers?

Was Kobe even on the court? I didn't notice...

[BIZARRO]

Was Kobe even on the court? I didn't notice...


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: That's good...

[Killer_Instinct]

i think it's funny how as mere people who have probably had no contact with jordan or kobe other than seeing them play at a game completely ignore and debunk the opinions of the coaches, analysts and other professional basketball players that have seen him play everyday, practice, workout, and spend nearly every waking moment with him over a span of 9 months .


Shut the hell up, man. Let's just ignore this guy.

[aznboy2k2]

Kobe was the only guy playing in the finals for the Lakers?

Can you tell me that Jordan if in Kobe's position would have blown both that big lead and lose by 40?

Seriously, can you?

[Kobe=MVP07`]

As you said about Kobe's Passing, was also something Jordan never really got full credit for.. as he did for his other talents..Jordan had some sweet no looks and just knew how to draw attention and make the quick outside/open pass.

For posting,lets face it Kobe took alot of pages out of the book of Jordan..he perfected the kraft of the post up...Kobe just took it and ran with it..But you'd rarely see Jordan force up a fade-away,usually it was a guarantee 2 points..and it was almost like a Kareem Sky hook..(obviously not as dominant)

And for dunks...Jordan had his own style ..his motion ...his legs swaying...the angled flight ..with his head looking down the rim and the tongue out...Kobe is a good dunker,lets face it Jordan could have done most of Kobe's dunks in his sleep ...can the same be said for Kobe??? for example the freethrow..or rock the cradle?


Repped nice post!:cheers:

i think jordan patented the rock the cradle ect. so much so that kobe did not want to copy it and be seen as trying to be like MJ..

[TmacsRockets]

:oldlol: Kobe led a team that started Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke *****in Walton into the playoffs and had them playing at a high level against the suns in tune of a 3-1 series lead. Fast forward 2 years later, Smush and Kwame cant even start and get playing time on LOTTERY TEAMS , and Walton is the worst small forward on the Lakers now. If thats not making players better than i don't know what is.


Odom got worse? Odom done had some of his best shooting percentages in his career playing with Kobe, just like every player that plays with Kobe now. Odom's refusal to put in time and work on his game is why that he hasn't grown as a player despite being in the league 10 years, it's all on ODOM.


:oldlol: @ T-Mac making people better, like who exactly does he make better on the rockets? Shane Battier? Yao? They were good before they played with MAC.

Kobe blew a 3-1 series lead to a team that was undermanned and was allergic to defense and had no center and it's SG was suspended. Kobe in game 7 didn't show up.

Also T-mac was responsible for Yao becoming a star. Yao wasn't a star until Tmac came to the team.

And yes Odom got worse on the Lakers. Remember he led the team to round 2 in Miami and then he plays with Kobe and his numbers get worse.

[Jimmy2k8]

Yao was a star before T-Mac came in to Houston. Try again.

[amfirst]

After watching a lot of championship games from the Bulls. I notice MJ had a lot of open shots that Kobe would rarely get in the playoffs, the defense was weak back then. And his team mates steped up everytime they needed them to score.

In my opinion, Kobe and MJ are at the same level. I don't see how MJ ever dominated Kobe when he first got to the NBA. Kobe vs. MJ matches were amazing because Kobe was only a teenager and putting up a good fight.

[Killer_Instinct]

After watching a lot of championship games from the Bulls. I notice MJ had a lot of open shots that Kobe would rarely get in the playoffs, the defense was weak back then. And his team mates steped up everytime they needed them to score.

In my opinion, Kobe and MJ are at the same level. I don't see how MJ ever dominated Kobe when he first got to the NBA. Kobe vs. MJ matches were amazing because Kobe was only a teenager and putting up a good fight.


http://i28.tinypic.com/kcyvjp.gif

[Silverbullit]

It's legit to compare Kobe to MJ....with the conclusion MJ is GOAT and Kobe is....hmmmm.....Kobe :D

[TmacsRockets]

In my opinion, Kobe and MJ are at the same level. I don't see how MJ ever dominated Kobe when he first got to the NBA. Kobe vs. MJ matches were amazing because Kobe was only a teenager and putting up a good fight.

Post by a guy named JB on realgm.

Highest PPG Average: 30.12
Most seasons leading league in Points: 11
Most scoring titles: 10
Highest PER Efficiency: 27.91

The Playoffs is where you make your name and where greatness is defined.

Playoffs

Most Points Per Game (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Games
8 by Michael Jordan

Most 40 Point Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)


MJ:
NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan holds:
-Most seasons leading league in scoring: 10
-Highest scoring average, career: 30.12ppg
-Most consecutive points, one game: 23
-Most seasons leading league in field goals made: 10
-Most consecutive gms in double figures in scoring:
866
-Most consecutive seasons leading PER: 7
-Highest career PER: 27.91
-Oldest player to score 40+ points: age 40 (43 pts)
-Oldest player to score 50+ points: age 38 (51 pts)

NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most consecutive seasons leading league in scoring:
7 (tied with Wilt Chamberlain)
-Most consecutive seasons, 2,000 plus points: 11 (Tied
with Malone)


NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan holds:
-Highest scoring average, career: 33.4ppg
-Record Total points: 5987
-Record Most FTS made: 1463
-Most points playoffs, one-game: 63
-Most points playoffs, three-game series: 135 (vs.
Miami, 1992)
-Most Points playoffs, five-game series: 226 (vs.
Cleveland, 1988)
-Most field goals made playoffs, three-game series:
53 (vs. Miami, 1992)
-Most field goals made playoffs, five-game series: 86
(vs. Philadelphia, 1990)
-Most field goals made playoffs, six-game series: 101
(vs. Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive 50pt games: 2
-Most consecutive 45pt games: 3
-Most consecutive games, 20 plus points: 60
-Most free throws made, one quarter: 13
-Most free throws attempted, one quarter: 14
-Most 50 point games: 8
-Most 40 point games: 39
-Most consecutive points: 23

NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most field goals, in a game: 24 (vs. Cleveland, May
1, 1988; tied with two others)
-Most three-point field goals made, one half: 6
(first half vs. Portland, June 3, 1992; tied with four
others)

NBA Finals records Michael Jordan holds:
- Highest Scoring average: 33.6
-Most points, six-game series: 246 (vs. Phoenix,
1993)
-Most field goals made, five-game series: 63 (vs.
L.A. Lakers, 1991)
-Most field goals made, six-game series: 101 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most steals, five-game series: 14 (vs. L.A. Lakers,
1991)
-Highest scoring average, one series: 41.0 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive games, 40-plus points: 4 (June 11,
1993 to June 18, 1993)
-Most consecutive 30 point games: 9
-Most consecutive games, 20-plus points: 29 (June 22,

1991 to June 1997)
-Most points, one-half: 35 (vs. Portland, June 3,
1992)
-Most consecutive field goals: 13 (Vs. LA)
-Most consecutive points: 23 (Vs. Seattle)
-Most Finals MVPs: 6



Here is Kobe's

KOBE:
NBA Regular-season records Kobe holds:
-All-rookie game (now defunct): 31 points

NBA Regular-season records Kobe Shares:
-Most 3 pointers in one game: 12 (shared with 1
player)
-Most 3 pointers in one half: 8 (5 players)
-Most consecutive 3 pointers: 9 (2 players)
-Most free throws made in one quarter: 14 (5 players)
-Most free throws attempted one quarter: 16 (6
players)

NBA Playoff Records Kobe holds:
-NONE

NBA Playoff Records Kobe Shares:
-NONE

NBA Finals records Kobe holds:
-NONE

NBA Finals records Kobe Shares:
-NONE


Conclusion: MJ still owns the most
scoring records as well as ALMOST ALL THE PLAYOFF
Records. Take a look at the all time scoring feats at
the bottom. MJ has 21 of them and the most important
ones, Wilt has 16, Kobe has 1. Take away Wilt and MJ
climbs to 26 and Kobe has 8. Below that are MJ's
records and KB's records. Not even close.

Here's a list of ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS.

- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6
- Highest single season scoring average: Wilt 50.4
- Highest single series playoff average: West 46.3
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10
- Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ,
Wilt tied at 7
- Most 50 point games: Wilt 118
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games: Wilt 271
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 42
- Most consecutive 60 point games: Wilt 4
- Most consecutive 50 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 50 point games in playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games: Wilt 14
- Most consecutive 40 point games rookie: AI 5
- Most consecutive 40 point games playoffs: West 6
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 35 point games: Wilt 33
- Most consecutive 30 point games: Wilt 65
- Most consecutive 30 point games playoffs: Elgin 11
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games: Wilt 126
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866
- Most consecutive points in one game: MJ 23
- Most consecutive points in one game playoffs: MJ 23
- Highest scoring game: Wilt 100
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63
- Highest scoring game finals: Elgin 61
- Highest scoring game rookie: Wilt 58
- Highest scoring all-star game: Wilt 42
- Highest scoring all-rookie game: Kobe 31
- Most points in 3 quarters: Wilt 69
- Most points in one half: Wilt 59
- Most points one half playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 39
- Most points in one half finals: MJ 35
- Most points one half all-star game: Rice 24
- Most points in one quarter: Gervin 33
- Most points in one quarter playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 29
- Most points in one quarter finals: Isiah 25
- Most points in one quarter all-star game: Rice 20
- Most points in OT: Arenas 16
- Most points in OT playoffs: Drexler 13
- Most points in OT in finals: Havlicek, Laimbeer,
Ainge tied at 9
- Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38
- Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2002/playoffs/top_individual_points/

Top Playoff Single-Game Scoring Performances
Player Team Opponent Total Date
Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986
Elgin Baylor L.A. Lakers at Boston 61 April 14, 1962
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 56 March 22, 1962
Michael Jordan Chicago at Miami 56 April 29, 1992
Charles Barkley Phoenix at Golden State 56 May 4, 1994
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 55 May 1, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Phoenix 55 June 16, 1993
Michael Jordan Chicago Washington 55 April 27, 1997
John Havlicek Boston Atlanta 54 April 1, 1973
Michael Jordan Chicago New York 54 May 31, 1993
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 54 May 9, 2001
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 53 March 14, 1960
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Boston 53 April 23, 1969
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Baltimore 52 April 5, 1965
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 52 May 16, 2001
Sam Jones Boston at New York 51 March 28, 1967
Eric Floyd Golden State L.A. Lakers 51 May 10, 1987
Bob Cousy Boston Syracuse 50* March 21, 1953
Bob Petit St. Louis Boston 50 April 12, 1958
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia at Boston 50 March 22, 1950
Wilt Chamberlain San Francisco St. Louis 50 April 10, 1964
Billy Cunningham Philadelphia Milwaukee 50 April 1, 1970
Bob McAdoo Buffalo Washington 50 April 18, 1975
Dominique Wilkins Atlanta Detroit 50 April 19, 1986
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50 April 28, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50^ May 5, 1989
Karl Malone Utah Seattle 50 April 22, 2000
Vince Carter Toronto Philadelphia 50 May 11, 2001
*4 overtimes
^overtime



NBA PLAYOFFS HIGH SCORING GAME BY YEAR
1984-85 - 43 Rolando Blackman, DAL vs POR at DAL 18Apr85
............... 43 Larry Bird, BOS vs DET at BOS 8May85
1985-86 - 63 Michael Jordan, CHI at BOS 20Apr86
1986-87 - 51 Sleepy Floyd, GSW vs LAL at GSW 10May87
1987-88 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 1May88
1988-89 - 50 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 5May89
1989-90 - 49 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 11May90
1990-91 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 10May91
1991-92 - 56 Michael Jordan, CHI at MIA 29Apr92
1992-93 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO at CHI 16Jun93
1993-94 - 56 Charles Barkley, PHO at GSW 4May94
1994-95 - 48 Michael Jordan, CHI at CHA 28Apr95
1995-96 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at NYK 11May96
1996-97 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs WAS at CHI 27Apr97
1997-98 - 45 Michael Jordan, CHI at UTA 14Jun98
1998-99 - 37 Tim Duncan, SAN at LAL 22May99
............... 37 Scottie Pippen, HOU vs LAL at HOU 13May99
............... 37 Shaquille O'Neal, LAL vs HOU at HOU 15May99
............... 37 Allen Iverson, PHI vs ORL at PHI 15May99
1999-00 - 50 Karl Malone, UTA vs SEA at UTA 22Apr00
-----
ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2
Michael Jordan, CHI vs MIA, 1992..... 45.0

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES/NBA FINALS
Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO, 1993..... 41.0
Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI, 1965..... 40.8
Elgin Baylor, LAL vs BOS, 1962..... 40.6

Also MJ has 6 series in the playoffs over 40+ ppg.

And for people using the era difference, if that is the case why is Iverson 2nd all time in PPG in the PLAYOFFS and 3rd all time in PPG in the season?


http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Player.jsp

PPG All Time (http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersPPGQuery.html?topic=4&stat=0)

[TmacsRockets]

After watching a lot of championship games from the Bulls. I notice MJ had a lot of open shots that Kobe would rarely get in the playoffs, the defense was weak back then. And his team mates steped up everytime they needed them to score.

In my opinion, Kobe and MJ are at the same level. I don't see how MJ ever dominated Kobe when he first got to the NBA. Kobe vs. MJ matches were amazing because Kobe was only a teenager and putting up a good fight.

First off Kobe's best PER is as good as MJ's career average PER.

Next off is the following:

Also, Kobe in the finals. This is how they performed in the finals.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/zillgitt/2004-06-15-zillgitt_x.htm

In 35 Finals games, Jordan averaged 33.6 points, 6.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists a game on 48% FG

In 25 Finals games, Bryant has averaged 23.0 points, 5.1 rebounds and 4.9 assists a game on 40% FG


MVP's - Jordan = 5; Kobe = 1

Titles - Jordan = 6 (as the #1 Option); Kobe = 3 (in the shadow of another)

Finals MVP's - Jordan = 6; Kobe = 0

DPOY - Jordan = 1; Kobe = 0

Scoring Titles - Jordan = 10; Kobe = 2

Career PPG - Jordan = 30.1 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0

Playoffs PPG - Jordan = 33.4 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 24.3

Playoff Points - Jordan = 5987 - Most Ever Points (179 games); Kobe = 3686 (152 games)

FG% - Jordan - 50% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far

Playoff FG% - Jordan = 49% Career; Kobe = 44% Career Thus Far

PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 27.91 (highest ever); Kobe = 23.57

Steals - Jordan = 2.4 SPG Career (with 3 Steals Titles); Kobe = 1.5 SPG

Blocks - Jordan = 0.8 BPG Career (most blocks ever for a guard); Kobe = 0.6


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/zillgitt/2004-06-15-zillgitt_x.htm

Here were the requirements

NBA ALL-TIME LEADERS:
(All statistical records + playoff records + career averages + playoff averages + MVPs + Finals MVPs + Rings + All-1st teams + All-1st Defensive Teams + All-star games + All-star MVPS)

This is how it broke down each category:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm


This is how it broke down each category:
NBA MVP awards won (five points each)
NBA championships won (five points each)
All-Star Games selected to play in (one point each)
All-NBA first-team selections (two points each)
All-defensive first team (one point each)
NBA Finals MVP awards (two points each)
All-Star MVP awards (one point each)
Individual statistical titles (two points each) — restricted to points, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage and free throw percentage, the stats the league has used the longest
Career averages (six points each) — if a player is the NBA career leader in scoring average, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage or free throw percentage
Career playoff averages (five points each) — for each category the player leads


That was the criteria used

1st Place: MJ, 149 total points
2nd Place: Wilt, 124 total points
3rd Place: Bill, 118 total points
4th Place: Jabbar, 114 total points
5th Place: Magic, 102 total points

Now adding up the current players you get (Active Players):
1st Place: Shaq, 85 total points
2nd Place: Tim, 71 total points
3rd Place: KB, 54 total points

Kobe has like a 1/3 of the points that MJ has, he isn't even close.

[Killer_Instinct]

^^^^^I bet you sleep well at night, don't you. Everyone has their purpose. Glad you've found yours.

[Loki]

After watching a lot of championship games from the Bulls. I notice MJ had a lot of open shots that Kobe would rarely get in the playoffs, the defense was weak back then. And his team mates steped up everytime they needed them to score.

In my opinion, Kobe and MJ are at the same level. I don't see how MJ ever dominated Kobe when he first got to the NBA. Kobe vs. MJ matches were amazing because Kobe was only a teenager and putting up a good fight.

:oldlol:

[Scott Pippen]

if Kobe can play this way

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ztlnKZSPtcw

and this way

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aBBJDjM4jIw&feature=related

in back to back games then we have good debate:applause: otherwise mj is the best still



mj and scottie- best duo ever:bowdown:

[HANNIBAL SMITH]

Kobe blew a 3-1 series lead to a team that was undermanned and was allergic to defense and had no center and it's SG was suspended. Kobe in game 7 didn't show up.

Also T-mac was responsible for Yao becoming a star. Yao wasn't a star until Tmac came to the team.

And yes Odom got worse on the Lakers. Remember he led the team to round 2 in Miami and then he plays with Kobe and his numbers get worse.



:oldlol: Yao was a star before t-mac came to the rockets fool. Odom averaged 17 ppg on 43% shooting that season, he's been way more efficient playing with Kobe since he's been a laker, like i said, his filed goal percentage is the highest of his career since he's been a laker.

You making like Odom single handily lead the heat to the second round that year, Wade, Jones,Grant,the Butler duo, Haslem and Skip all were putting in work for the heat that season, it was a team effort, not just Odom. Speaking of blowing 3-1 leads, ya idol T-Mac accomplished that feat TWICE in his career already. Still doesn't change the fact that this fool haven't sniffed the second round despite playing with the best center in the NBA. :oldlol:

You act like the '06 Lakers were an elite team or something, they won 45 freaking games and they were the 7th seed against the number 2 seed suns. The Suns even without amare were a better team than the Lakers, anybody with a bit of common sense knows that.

The Lakers didn't have a chance in hell in that series by most experts yet they damn near knocked them off. T-Mac had home court advantage these last 2 years and has failed to come through yet again. What is T-Mac, 0-7 in the playoffs now? :roll:

[BrianScalabrine]

I think PJax is so whipped that he has to say good things about Kobe no matter how much it pains him. His last book describes clearly how much he hates coaching Kobe. He's doing it just for Jeannie Buss. I think he deserves to suffer since he's been an obnoxious hippie who got too many undeserved championship rings.

[catzhernandez]

MJ >> Kobe

[gpfanz]

Everyone has their purpose. Glad you've found yours.

& worshipping Kobe nuts is urs im sure :D

[JStewart]

When comparing Jordan's records to Kobe's records, you have to take into account -- and this may be another point for Jordan -- that Kobe was never the No. 1 scoring option on his team until recently.

[shaoyut]

michael jordan never lost a series in the finals 6/6

[Showtime]

When comparing Jordan's records to Kobe's records, you have to take into account -- and this may be another point for Jordan -- that Kobe was never the No. 1 scoring option on his team until recently.
Kobe would often shoot more than Shaq. Shaq was the primary offensive option because of his role, but that didn't mean he shot the most. Kobe often times lead LA in FG attempts.

[Bobe Kryant]

You've heard it from the Zen Master himself, Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan. Period. Full stop.

Better handles and outside shooting, more athletic, better work ethic, superior on D (Kobe ALWAYS guards the best player of the opposing team, MJ usually guarded the scrubs) etc.

Kobe Bryant = :rockon:

[32jazz]

i think it's funny how as mere people who have probably had no contact with jordan or kobe other than seeing them play at a game completely ignore and debunk the opinions of the coaches, analysts and other professional basketball players that have seen him play everyday, practice, workout, and spend nearly every waking moment with him over a span of 9 months .

This is the same site in which guys have questioned & steadfastly doubted the "credibility" of ex player & championship coach Doc Rivers:rolleyes: . Now they are attempting to dismiss a nine time NBA champ.:confusedshrug:

[gb8]

As basketball players go I have always said bryant is probably the best I have ever seen in terms of his mastery of the various aspects of the game. That being said Jordan is greater then him. Jordan would never have lost the finals in the manner he did. Jordan would even in defeat had atleast 1 if not more historic individual games in that finals series. Jordan had the ability to raise his game at will whenever called upon in the playoffs and finals. Kobe did it for the run through the western finals just wasnt able to do it in the finals series where it was needed most of all. Anyone who doesnt see that is a fool, no way jordan loses the finals in the manner kobe did. This ability to just be better over and over again is what seperates kobe and jordan, and is the reason why Jordan is the right choice between the 2.

[Heilige]

As basketball players go I have always said bryant is probably the best I have ever seen in terms of his mastery of the various aspects of the game. That being said Jordan is greater then him. Jordan would never have lost the finals in the manner he did. Jordan would even in defeat had atleast 1 if not more historic individual games in that finals series. Jordan had the ability to raise his game at will whenever called upon in the playoffs and finals. Kobe did it for the run through the western finals just wasnt able to do it in the finals series where it was needed most of all. Anyone who doesnt see that is a fool, no way jordan loses the finals in the manner kobe did. This ability to just be better over and over again is what seperates kobe and jordan, and is the reason why Jordan is the right choice between the 2.


Why do you feel he wan't able to do it in the Finals series when he needed it the most?

[juju151111]

You've heard it from the Zen Master himself, Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan. Period. Full stop.

Better handles and outside shooting, more athletic, better work ethic, superior on D (Kobe ALWAYS guards the best player of the opposing team, MJ usually guarded the scrubs) etc.

Kobe Bryant = :rockon:
:roll: :lol :roll: LOL kobe nutgaggers.

[Godfather]

Compare them all you want, but Kobe blew a 24 point lead and got blown out by 39 points in the Finals.

:applause: And he is in his prime.

[puppychili]

Tmacs Rockets post should be the end of the thread right there. But I just wanna add two things.

1. Really, what is Phil supposed to say. Especially knowing how Kobe is. Remember this is the same guy who wanted to play on Pluto a year ago. You might a well as Phil whos better in the sack? His ex-wife or Jeanie. His ex-wife could of been Jenna Jameson but you know what the smart answer would be.

2. I have yet to see Kobe step up when it really counts. I mean he had the 80 something game against the Raptors and he had that game against Dallas where he scored 60 something in 3 quarters. And those performances were awesome no doubt. But I have yet to see him put the Lakers on his back when it really matters in the playoffs. A pivotal game 5 or a game that they need to have against a team that they're not supposed to beat. Lakers don't even have to win the game. I just wanna see Kobe have the kind of game where he puts his team on his back and goes down swinging The performances that Lebron put up against Detroit last year and in game 7 vs Boston this year were way closer to MJ than Kobe has ever come.

It's not that Kobes Lakers blew a 3-1 series lead against the Suns. Its that he scored 2 points in the 2nd half as well. It's not that Kobes Lakers blew game 4 vs the Celtics and got historically blown out in game 6. It's that Kobe didn't even go down swinging. When something like that is happening, thats when the true greats put the team on their back and say F this I'm not losing. Jordan did that a hell of alot. You didn't see the Celtics jumping around in the last 5 min of game 7 vs Cleveland cause Lebron wasn't about to go out quitely.

When Kobe does something like that, then you can START making comparisons to Jordan. Till then it's nothing but wishful thinking.

[Knoe Itawl]

Tmacs Rockets post should be the end of the thread right there. But I just wanna add two things.

1. Really, what is Phil supposed to say. Especially knowing how Kobe is. Remember this is the same guy who wanted to play on Pluto a year ago. You might a well as Phil whos better in the sack? His ex-wife or Jeanie. His ex-wife could of been Jenna Jameson but you know what the smart answer would be.

2. I have yet to see Kobe step up when it really counts. I mean he had the 80 something game against the Raptors and he had that game against Dallas where he scored 60 something in 3 quarters. And those performances were awesome no doubt. But I have yet to see him put the Lakers on his back when it really matters in the playoffs. A pivotal game 5 or a game that they need to have against a team that they're not supposed to beat. Lakers don't even have to win the game. I just wanna see Kobe have the kind of game where he puts his team on his back and goes down swinging The performances that Lebron put up against Detroit last year and in game 7 vs Boston this year were way closer to MJ than Kobe has ever come.

It's not that Kobes Lakers blew a 3-1 series lead against the Suns. Its that he scored 2 points in the 2nd half as well. It's not that Kobes Lakers blew game 4 vs the Celtics and got historically blown out in game 6. It's that Kobe didn't even go down swinging. When something like that is happening, thats when the true greats put the team on their back and say F this I'm not losing. Jordan did that a hell of alot. You didn't see the Celtics jumping around in the last 5 min of game 7 vs Cleveland cause Lebron wasn't about to go out quitely.

When Kobe does something like that, then you can START making comparisons to Jordan. Till then it's nothing but wishful thinking.

Of course. But all Kobe enthusists see are regular season scoring outbursts and three second fiddle titles with Shaq. He has done NOTHING in the playoffs (the regular season too, but the playoffs are where your legend is made) that comes close to Jordan's best (including being supposedly superior to Jordan in "outside shooting") but things like FACTS have never mattered to Kobe fanboys both inside and outside the media.

[Da_Realist]

Tmacs Rockets post should be the end of the thread right there. But I just wanna add two things.

1. Really, what is Phil supposed to say. Especially knowing how Kobe is. Remember this is the same guy who wanted to play on Pluto a year ago. You might a well as Phil whos better in the sack? His ex-wife or Jeanie. His ex-wife could of been Jenna Jameson but you know what the smart answer would be.

2. I have yet to see Kobe step up when it really counts. I mean he had the 80 something game against the Raptors and he had that game against Dallas where he scored 60 something in 3 quarters. And those performances were awesome no doubt. But I have yet to see him put the Lakers on his back when it really matters in the playoffs. A pivotal game 5 or a game that they need to have against a team that they're not supposed to beat. Lakers don't even have to win the game. I just wanna see Kobe have the kind of game where he puts his team on his back and goes down swinging The performances that Lebron put up against Detroit last year and in game 7 vs Boston this year were way closer to MJ than Kobe has ever come.

It's not that Kobes Lakers blew a 3-1 series lead against the Suns. Its that he scored 2 points in the 2nd half as well. It's not that Kobes Lakers blew game 4 vs the Celtics and got historically blown out in game 6. It's that Kobe didn't even go down swinging. When something like that is happening, thats when the true greats put the team on their back and say F this I'm not losing. Jordan did that a hell of alot. You didn't see the Celtics jumping around in the last 5 min of game 7 vs Cleveland cause Lebron wasn't about to go out quitely.

When Kobe does something like that, then you can START making comparisons to Jordan. Till then it's nothing but wishful thinking.

Great post. :applause:

[Anti404]

You didn't see the Celtics jumping around in the last 5 min of game 7 vs Cleveland cause Lebron wasn't about to go out quitely.
Great sentence(and entire post, but this sentence stuck out.

[puppychili]

Likeability/class/personality - big no.

Thats an understatement. I think Kobes proven without a doubt that he's a douche. If he wore any uniform besides purple and gold, Laker fans would admit that too.

[Jakez On Point11]

obviously jordan is better
but other than kobe i cant think of ne 1 else in the leauge now 2 compare him 2

[LA.MJ&KB#1]

Thank God this conversation is over with. Jordan and Kobe will always be compared to each other hope everybody at least wait until Mr. Bryant retire first before starting this conversation back up.

I just wished to live long enough to see more talented players be compared to them both.

[lilojmayo]

is this reliable he just doing this to please kobe

dont you remember when kobe ran phil outta town the first time phil wrote a book on how uncoachable Kobe was


and besides its obvious that when there is no name on the back that Lebron is was better Than Kobe for Team USA play and im getting ready to say that Wade is to

[jrong]

Kobe to me has the most natural basketball talent of anyone in history. That being said he's nowhere near the basketball player that Michael Jordan was.

Why is this? Part of it is circumstance and part of it is between the ears. "Talent" is a vague concept to assess, but I also think LeBron James has more natural talent than MJ. But, like Kobe, he's not even close to being as good a basketball player as Mike.

[Loki]

LOL @ Kobe/Lebron having more talent than Jordan. Jordan changed the entire damn game of basketball from a creative standpoint for an entire generation. He's why people like Kobe and Bron even exist. Get out of here with that nonsense. Neither of them have that sort of transcendent, creative talent that changes the game and draws people in.

[jrong]

LOL @ Kobe/Lebron having more talent than Jordan. Jordan changed the entire damn game of basketball from a creative standpoint for an entire generation. He's why people like Kobe and Bron even exist. Get out of here with that nonsense. Neither of them have that sort of transcendent, creative talent that changes the game and draws people in.

You did read the part where I said Mike was a WAY better basketball player than either of them, right? I followed MJ from the very beginning. My impression of Michael is not of someone who oozes talent. It's rather a combination of supreme fundamentals, unparalleled work ethic, incredible athleticism, indomitable will, and iron mental focus.

I'm sorry you disagree with that you with how I arrive at my conclusion, but I think you agree with it. MJ was the best ever, by a long shot.

[Godfather]

Kobe to me has the most natural basketball talent of anyone in history. That being said he's nowhere near the basketball player that Michael Jordan was.

Why is this? Part of it is circumstance and part of it is between the ears. "Talent" is a vague concept to assess, but I also think LeBron James has more natural talent than MJ. But, like Kobe, he's not even close to being as good a basketball player as Mike.

That's why Kobe came into the league and dominated right?

[Heilige]

You did read the part where I said Mike was a WAY better basketball player than either of them, right? I followed MJ from the very beginning. My impression of Michael is not of someone who oozes talent. It's rather a combination of supreme fundamentals, unparalleled work ethic, incredible athleticism, indomitable will, and iron mental focus.

I'm sorry you disagree with that you with how I arrive at my conclusion, but I think you agree with it. MJ was the best ever, by a long shot.


jrong, who do you feel had the greater work ethic between Jordan and Kobe?

[Loki]

You did read the part where I said Mike was a WAY better basketball player than either of them, right? I followed MJ from the very beginning. My impression of Michael is not of someone who oozes talent. It's rather a combination of supreme fundamentals, unparalleled work ethic, incredible athleticism, indomitable will, and iron mental focus.

I'm sorry you disagree with that you with how I arrive at my conclusion, but I think you agree with it. MJ was the best ever, by a long shot.

Jordan doesn't ooze talent? You don't seem to get it: he was so creative in every respect that he changed the game for an entire generation. There's no one today who is on that level. His physical talent was also off the charts -- certainly more than Kobe at the very least.