If PRIME Arvydas Came to the NBA, Where Would Have He Ranked As All Time Center?

[Sir Charles]

Maybe 5th...after Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem and Shaq.

[fos]

Probably between Greg Ostertag and Kwame Brown?

Arvydas was clearly light and the loafers.

[Myth]

I would have loved seeing the Bulls response to Sabas in the 92 Finals.

[eliteballer]

With or without steroids.

[Myth]

Probably between Greg Ostertag and Kwame Brown?

Arvydas was clearly light and the loafers.

That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. Old crippled Sabonis was leagues above those guys. He was also arguably the best guy to have versus prime Shaq. Imagine him in his prime.

[Sir Charles]

Probably between Greg Ostertag and Kwame Brown?

Arvydas was clearly light and the loafers.

:no:

Arvydas in his Prime

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ&feature=related

[Kblaze8855]

He was basically a basketball Drago. Drugged up russian monster....but he had crazy skills for his size anyway. Blazers maybe get a ring one of those years they lost in the finals. Maybe the one vs the Pistons. Or never know...could have gone where he was drafted in the first place....the Hawks. teamed with Nique.

[worldbefree]

He would have ranked top 3 in best ALL-ROUND centers.

[Myth]

He was basically a basketball Drago. Drugged up russian monster....but he had crazy skills for his size anyway. Blazers maybe get a ring one of those years they lost in the finals. Maybe the one vs the Pistons. Or never know...could have gone where he was drafted in the first place....the Hawks. teamed with Nique.

Would have been illegal though. He was too young.

[Sir Charles]

He was basically a basketball Drago. Drugged up russian monster....but he had crazy skills for his size anyway. Blazers maybe get a ring one of those years they lost in the finals. Maybe the one vs the Pistons. Or never know...could have gone where he was drafted in the first place....the Hawks. teamed with Nique.

:no:

A PRIME Arvydas with the Blazers in the late 80s and earlys with PRIME Glide (All Around Player that Could Make Teams Better and Still be Top Scorer), Prime Buck Williams, PRIME Terry Porter etc.. are you kidding me just 1 Championship!?:rolleyes:

They would probably have won the 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992 and 1993 Championships with Ease.

No to mention that Arvydas happens to be a Center that could not only Dominate the Paint, Shoot, Score, Rebound, Impose Presence but PASS and MAKE OTHERS BETTER. Both Glide and Arvydas would have been a DINASTY.

Jordan would have probably have to wait till around 1993-95 Season for his Championship and would have had to Deal with the Rockets and Hakeem, which would have probably needed another Star Caliber Player in his Prime (Ala Glide, Malone, Charles, Derrick Coleman, or others) and they would have schooled.

Ofcourse if Jordan did not have Pippen and it was Just

Hakeems Rockets vs Jordans Bulls = HAKEEM would Win with Ease.

[ihatetimthomas]

Sabonis is likely the most underrated center of all time. Such skill for a big man. Finesse and strong as well. Exceptional passer. Its a shame he came to the league past his prime years

[Lebron23]

Maybe 5th...after Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem and Shaq.


I don't think he would be as good as Prime David Robinson. Robinson was a monster during his early years in the NBA, and he almost won his 2nd NBA MVP trophy in the 1995-96 Season.

[MarloStanfield]

Sabonis is likely the most underrated center of all time. Such skill for a big man. Finesse and strong as well. Exceptional passer. Its a shame he came to the league past his prime years
Agreed. Most fans forget how good Sabonis really was not to mention most fans on ISH probably haven't even seen him play more than a game or two.

[Sir Charles]

I don't think he would be as good as Prime David Robinson. Robinson was a monster during his early years in the NBA, and he almost won his 2nd NBA MVP trophy in the 1995-96 Season.

Are you kidding me?:hammerhead: He dominated Robinson in the 1988 and 1986 Olympics and Sabonis was just 1 year older.

Sabonis in the 90s would have only been a a match up in the Paint to Shaq and away from the paint to Hakeem.:applause:

[Lebron23]

Are you kidding me?:hammerhead: He dominated Robinson in the 1988 and 1986 Olympics and Sabonis was just 1 year older.

Sabonis in the 90s would have only been a a match up in the Paint to Shaq and away from the paint to Hakeem.:applause:


I think you're an idiot you also forget that the Admiral won an Olympic Gold Medal in the 1992 and 1996 Olympics, and he is one of the best NBA Center in the 1990's.


Career awards/accomplishments

NBA Champion (1999, 2003)
NBA MVP (1995)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1992)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1990)
All-NBA First Team (1991, '92, '95, '96)
All-NBA Second Team (1994, '98)
All-NBA Third Team (1990, '93, 2000, '01)
All-Defensive First Team (1991, '92, '95, '96)
All-Defensive Second Team (1990, '93, '94, '98)
10-time NBA All-Star
Only player in NBA history to win the Rebounding, Blocked Shots, and Scoring Titles and Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year and MVP
One of only four players to have recorded a quadruple-double
NBA Sportsmanship Award (2001)
Third player in NBA history to rank among the league's top 10 in five categories (7th in scoring (23.2 ppg), 4th in rebounding (12.2 rpg), 1st in blocks (4.49 per game), 5th in steals (2.32 per game) and 7th in field-goal percentage (.551))
First player in NBA history to rank among the top five in rebounding, blocks and steals (per game) in a single season
Fourth player ever to score 70+ in an NBA game
3-time Olympian (1988, '92, '96)
One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)
Led NBA in Scoring (1993–94 season) - 29.8 ppg
Led NBA in Rebounding (1990–91 season) - 13.0 rpg
Led NBA in Blocked Shots (1991–92 season) - 4.49 bpg
Holds record for most IBM Awards (1990, '91, '94, '95, '96)
His 10,497 rebounds and 2,954 blocked shots are the most by any player wearing a San Antonio Spurs jersey, and his 20,790 points are second most behind only George Gervin's 23,602. (Had only Gervin's NBA numbers been taken into account, Robinson would be #1 in this category; Gervin scored 4,219 of his points while the franchise was in the American Basketball Association.)
Gold Medal in 1986 FIBA World Championship.
Member of Dream Team #1 during Olympic Games at Barcelona.


Robinson > Sabonis
Robinson > Barkley
Robinson > Sir Charles

[Sir Charles]

I think you're an idiot you also forget that the Admiral won an Olympic Gold Medal in the 1992 and 1996 Olympics, and he is one of the best NBA Center in the 1990's.


Career awards/accomplishments

NBA Champion (1999, 2003)
NBA MVP (1995)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1992)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1990)
All-NBA First Team (1991, '92, '95, '96)
All-NBA Second Team (1994, '98)
All-NBA Third Team (1990, '93, 2000, '01)
All-Defensive First Team (1991, '92, '95, '96)
All-Defensive Second Team (1990, '93, '94, '98)
10-time NBA All-Star
Only player in NBA history to win the Rebounding, Blocked Shots, and Scoring Titles and Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year and MVP
One of only four players to have recorded a quadruple-double
NBA Sportsmanship Award (2001)
Third player in NBA history to rank among the league's top 10 in five categories (7th in scoring (23.2 ppg), 4th in rebounding (12.2 rpg), 1st in blocks (4.49 per game), 5th in steals (2.32 per game) and 7th in field-goal percentage (.551))
First player in NBA history to rank among the top five in rebounding, blocks and steals (per game) in a single season
Fourth player ever to score 70+ in an NBA game
3-time Olympian (1988, '92, '96)
One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)
Led NBA in Scoring (1993–94 season) - 29.8 ppg
Led NBA in Rebounding (1990–91 season) - 13.0 rpg
Led NBA in Blocked Shots (1991–92 season) - 4.49 bpg
Holds record for most IBM Awards (1990, '91, '94, '95, '96)
His 10,497 rebounds and 2,954 blocked shots are the most by any player wearing a San Antonio Spurs jersey, and his 20,790 points are second most behind only George Gervin's 23,602. (Had only Gervin's NBA numbers been taken into account, Robinson would be #1 in this category; Gervin scored 4,219 of his points while the franchise was in the American Basketball Association.)
Gold Medal in 1986 FIBA World Championship.
Member of Dream Team #1 during Olympic Games at Barcelona.


Robinson > Sabonis
Robinson > Barkley
Robinson > Sir Charles

In think are an even more Idiot :rolleyes:

Robinson won in the 1992 Olympics do to having a Great Dream Team along Greats like: BIRD, MAGIC, JORDAN, BARKLEY as Leaders also EWING, DREXLER, MALONE, STOCKTON, MULLIN etc

And guess who was the MVP of the Dream Team? CHARLES BARKLEY (Leadin the Team in PPG, FG%, 3rd in Rebounds, 3rd in Steals and 6th in Assits)

In the 1996 Olympics he also Won because he had a Great Team too with Daddy CHARLES BARKLEY as "Captain" and as the MVP AGAIN (Leading the whole Team again in PPG, FG%; this time Rebounds and top 3-5 In Steal and Assits)

David Robinson is the Most Overrated Center of All Time and he got owned by Sabonis in 1986 and 1988 big time! (go watch the videos) not to metion he got owned by BARKELY in All Possible Ways in 1993! (and David Robinson had to leave his position to Guard 6`4 ft Barkley from the Center Spot ahhaha).

David Robinson with no Duncan = No Championships

CHARLES BARKLEY > David Robinson
Arvydas Saboins > David Robinson

:confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

In think are an even more Idiot :rolleyes:

Robinson won in the 1992 Olympics do to having a Great Dream Team along Greats like: BIRD, MAGIC, JORDAN, BARKLEY as Leaders also EWING, DREXLER, MALONE, STOCKTON, MULLIN etc

And guess who was the MVP of the Dream Team? CHARLES BARKLEY (Leadin the Team in PPG, FG%, 3rd in Rebounds, 3rd in Steals and 6th in Assits)

In the 1996 Olympics he also Won because he had a Great Team too with Daddy CHARLES BARKLEY as "Captain" and as the MVP AGAIN (Leading the whole Team again in PPG, FG%; this time Rebounds and top 3-5 In Steal and Assits)

David Robinson is the Most Overrated Center of All Time and he got owned by Sabonis in 1986 and 1988 big time! (go watch the videos) not to metion he got owned by BARKELY in All Possible Ways in 1993! (and David Robinson had to leave his position to Guard 6`4 ft Barkley from the Center Spot ahhaha).

David Robinson with no Duncan = No Championships

CHARLES BARKLEY > David Robinson
Arvydas Saboins > David Robinson

:confusedshrug:


Stop trolling, and i nominate you as the most annoying poster in this site.

[Collie]

Maybe similar numbers to prime Bill Walton. Their games are somewhat similar, from what I've seen of his early footage.

[Sir Charles]

Maybe similar numbers to prime Bill Walton. Their games are somewhat similar, from what I've seen of his early footage.

Arvydas in his 20s could leap, run, was more agil, had more potence, was faster and quicker etc he could even Break the Backboard with 1 handed dunks. Arvydas destroyed Robinson in the 1986 and 1988 Olympics and he is just 1 year older than Robinson. The NBA missed out on the FIFTH GREATEST CENER EVER.:(

[Joshumitsu]

I read somewhere that Sabonis was the main reason why the Dream Team was created after that.

[TheGrassIsGreen]

In terms of skill, he was one of the best. A lot of people here are praising Sabonis' athletecism, but it's hard to judge as the Soviets made him take steroids.

I agree that he would be one of the best, but it's hard to say where he would stand. Hypothetically speaking, if he had come here when he was drafted, he would have had to stop steroid usage and he would not have the endurance nor the strength that he did in the Soviet Union. This is why this argument is really frivolous to argue. There are so many different factors that can be seen in retrospect that it's hard to come up with any concrete reason.

[Lord Melchett]

Saw him play a game in 1988 against good European competition.

Possibly the most complete centre I've ever seen.

His athleticism in the post would have been a handful for any NBA centre but what really set him apart was his passing and shooting.

Often he'd drift down to the high post and if the opposing centre didn't go with him (and often if he did) he pop the J as easy as shelling peas. If the centre followed him a laser guided pass would find someone open for an easy basket.

He would have stood out in the NBA, and may well have dominated.

And remember, the 1992 Dream Team (the only true one IMO) had a bucket load of talent arounf Robinson and, unlike some USA teams since, actually worked really hard to gel with each other.

[VCMVP1551]

Arvydas would have without a doubt been a consistent 20-10 guy.

He was about 7'2" and 280 pounds in his prime with great athleticism and amazing skills for a big man. He had NBA 3 point range, excellent footwork and post moves, great rebounding ability and he was probably the greatest passing big man of all-time.

As far as athleticism well he couldn't quite run or jump like Shaq, Hakeem and Robinson but I'd say as far as athleticism he was similar to prime Ewing except Sabonis was about 40 pounds heavier and 3-4 inches taller.

Don't forget that by the time he came to the USA he was 30 and had suffered ankle, achilles and knee injuries. That robbed him of his mobility and athleticism.

In 1997-1998 an old 33 year old, overweight, injury prone Sabonis averaged 16.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.1 bpg, 49.3 FG%, 79.8 FT%.

I don't see how someone could really stop Sabonis in his prime. He could score in the post with his great size, footwork and hook shots but he could also step outside and make long jumpers as well as being able to make three throws if he was fouled. Then if you doubled teamed him that wouldn't work because he was possibly the greatest passing big man ever.

I'd imagine his prime stats would be around 23-25 ppg, 12-13 rpg, 4-5 apg and 2 bpg.

[berraco]

In terms of skill, he was one of the best. A lot of people here are praising Sabonis' athletecism, but it's hard to judge as the Soviets made him take steroids.

I agree that he would be one of the best, but it's hard to say where he would stand. Hypothetically speaking, if he had come here when he was drafted, he would have had to stop steroid usage and he would not have the endurance nor the strength that he did in the Soviet Union. This is why this argument is really frivolous to argue. There are so many different factors that can be seen in retrospect that it's hard to come up with any concrete reason.
Was really that stringent the anti-drug program in the NBA by that date? Just asking, i always got the impression that they started being more strong on this by mid of the 90s, but I'm probably wrong.

[TheGrassIsGreen]

Was really that stringent the anti-drug program in the NBA by that date? Just asking, i always got the impression that they started being more strong on this by mid of the 90s, but I'm probably wrong.

It probably wasn't, but I'm basing my argument off of his own choice to take them. Sabonis was pretty much forced into taking steroids by the government from my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Lebron23]

It probably wasn't, but I'm basing my argument off of his own choice to take them. Sabonis was pretty much forced into taking steroids by the government from my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Thanks for the information :cheers:

[BrianScalabrine]

He would've been the greatest center of all time.

[Lebron23]

He would've been the greatest center of all time.

But Brian Scalabrine is the Greatest Center in the history of the NBA. :lol

[Sir Charles]

Arvydas would have without a doubt been a consistent 20-10 guy.

He was about 7'2" and 280 pounds in his prime with great athleticism and amazing skills for a big man. He had NBA 3 point range, excellent footwork and post moves, great rebounding ability and he was probably the greatest passing big man of all-time.

As far as athleticism well he couldn't quite run or jump like Shaq, Hakeem and Robinson but I'd say as far as athleticism he was similar to prime Ewing except Sabonis was about 40 pounds heavier and 3-4 inches taller.

Don't forget that by the time he came to the USA he was 30 and had suffered ankle, achilles and knee injuries. That robbed him of his mobility and athleticism.

In 1997-1998 an old 33 year old, overweight, injury prone Sabonis averaged 16.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.1 bpg, 49.3 FG%, 79.8 FT%.

I don't see how someone could really stop Sabonis in his prime. He could score in the post with his great size, footwork and hook shots but he could also step outside and make long jumpers as well as being able to make three throws if he was fouled. Then if you doubled teamed him that wouldn't work because he was possibly the greatest passing big man ever.

I'd imagine his prime stats would be around 23-25 ppg, 12-13 rpg, 4-5 apg and 2 bpg.

He was 7-3 ft (1 Inch Taller than Jabbar, 2 Inches on Shaq and Robinson, 4 Inches on Ewing and 5 inches on Hakeem))

Weight: 279 lbs (Only Shaq Could have Battled Him in the Paint)

I think he would reached the 30 + PPG mark and 14-16 rpg for a couple of seasons too. I think his ASP average would been 2-3 for his first 8 to 9 seasons because the team that would have gotten Arvydas would have wanted him as the Focal Scoring Point and they would have taken advantage of his Physical Prime but then in his last 5-6 or seasons this man would have probaly averaged 4-5 ASPG with ease. His Blocks for his first 8-9 Seasons would have been 3 to 4 for a couple of Seasons too and rarely below 2.

Arvydas along Kareem and Hakeem are the Most Talented Centers to Play and I think he had a a little more Physical Abilities in his 20s than Patrick! but obviously not more than the 2 others mentioned.

But there is something that we forget: he would have been way more Overpowering than Kareem, Hakeem, Ewing or Robinson in the Post Weight Wise, Strength Wise and Talented Wise was near to Jabbar and Kareem. He was almost as Strong as Shaq less of a Leaper but he could Run like Shaq from Court to Court the same or more!.

Arvydases FG% would have hit the 60% Mark a couple of times if not more! and rarely go belowe 55% in his Prime.

This man would have have averged 25-35 (55-60%) PPG, 12-16 RPG, 4-5 APG, 3-4 BPG and ofcourse Shoot Great froom the FT and 3-Point Range in his PEEK.

There is a Reason why Shaq called him "The Best Center I Played Against" (its not just a statement made up from some European Arvydas fan)

If Shaq said that to an Old Aging Arvydas not the one in his 20s and before his major injuries..just imagine what he could have done in his 20s :)

He would have definetly been TOP 4-5

Here more clips. Breaks the Backboard with a "1 Handed Dunk"

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a9AJ-Yclo4I&feature=related

[Lebron23]

He was 7-3 ft (1 Inch Taller than Jabbar, 2 Inches on Shaq and Robinson, 4 Inches on Ewing and 5 inches on Hakeem))

Weight: 279 lbs (Only Shaq Could have Battled Him in the Paint)

I think he would reached the 30 + PPG mark and 14-16 rpg for a couple of seasons too. I think his ASP average would been 2-3 for his first 8 to 9 seasons because the team that would have gotten Arvydas would have wanted him as the Focal Scoring Point and they would have taken advantage of his Physical Prime but then in his last 5-6 or seasons this man would have probaly averaged 4-5 ASPG with ease. His Blocks for his first 8-9 Seasons would have been 3 to 4 for a couple of Seasons too and rarely below 2.

Arvydas along Kareem and Hakeem are the Most Talented Centers to Play and I think he had a a little more Physical Abilities in his 20s than Patrick! but obviously not more than the others mentioned.

But there is something that we forget: he would have been way more Overpowering than Kareem, Hakeem, Ewing or Robinson in the Post Weight Wise, Strength Wise and Talented Wise was near to Jabbar and Kareem. He was almost as Strong as Shaq (less Athletic though).

Arvydases FG% would have hit the 60% Mark a couple of times if not more! and rarely go belowe 55% in his Prime.

This man would have have averged 25-35 (55-60%) PPG, 12-16 RPG, 4-5 APG, 3-4 BPG and ofcourse Shoot Great froom the FT and 3-Point Range in his PEEK.

There is a Reason why Shaq called him "The Best Center I Played Against" (its not just a statement made up from some European Arvydas fan)

If Shaq said that to an Old Aging Arvydas not the one in his 20s and before his major injuries..just imagine what he could have done in his 20s :)

He would have definetly been TOP 4-5


How did you know? He wasn't very impressive when he is playing for the Portland Trailblazers, and Rasheed Wallace was their best player during that time.

Sir Charles, you can't just predict that he is going to be an all star in the NBA because Prime David Robinson is going to schooled him in the 1990's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S36g_AZX84M&feature=related&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2EShynbM_k&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FInsapjeY_M&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC0CNtcmNwM&feature=related&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_GgLzvLxeg&feature=related&fmt=18

[Sir Charles]

How did you know? He wasn't very impressive when he is playing for the Portland Trailblazers, and Rasheed Wallace was their best player during that time.

Sir Charles, you can't just predict that he is going to be an all star in the NBA because Prime David Robinson is going to schooled him in the 1990's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S36g_AZX84M&feature=related&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2EShynbM_k&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FInsapjeY_M&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC0CNtcmNwM&feature=related&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_GgLzvLxeg&feature=related&fmt=18

You want to see him School Robinson in the 86 and 88 Olympics? Here you go.. :confusedshrug:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_1vSc1YJ0Ys

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z9NVMuNz_g&feature=related

Passing vs Robinson

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z9NVMuNz_g&feature=related

Resume of His Career. Stronger than anyone but Shaq! and Talent wise only comparable to Jabbar and the Dream

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gHFD6tmaqLY&feature=related

[TheGrassIsGreen]

How did you know? He wasn't very impressive when he is playing for the Portland Trailblazers, and Rasheed Wallace was their best player during that time.



He wasn't impressive because he was hobbled by devastating knee injuries. He would've been a great player, I have no doubt about that, but it's hard to say where he would've stacked up.

[Sir Charles]

He wasn't impressive because he was hobbled by devastating knee injuries. He would've been a great player, I have no doubt about that, but it's hard to say where he would've stacked up.

Look Guys I`ve talked to a 37 year old Man that saw the 1988 Olympics and both Arvydas and Robinson are half a year or 1 year difference and he said that Arvydas DESTROYED Robinson. How good was Robinson? Well Good to Great right? Ok so if Someone Destroys Robinson like that then he would have not just been good but GREAT!

Height: 7-3 / 2,21. Weight: 292 lbs. /

LOOK AT THE VIDEO: 1986 vs Robinson

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ&feature=related

DESTRUCTION OF DAVID ROBINSON OR NOT?!

YES!

[VanillaThunder]

I'm not disputing anyone, but does anyone have a source RE: Arvydas and steroids? I tried googling and couldn't find anything and this forum is the first Ive heard of it

[Sir Charles]

I'm not disputing anyone, but does anyone have a source RE: Arvydas and steroids? I tried googling and couldn't find anything and this forum is the first Ive heard of it

Look man the Video is right there.

The Destrucction of Robinson is Evident :rolleyes: :confusedshrug:

That was Arvydas in his 20s before his Injuries. He could Run like Shaq, Leap Better than Ewing, has Skills ala Jabbar and Kareem and his weight was around 280-290 lbs of Muscule and finally was taller than all these. Arvydas would have dominated the mid 80s ande early 90s no doubt.:applause:

Arvydas:

Born: December 19, 1964 in
Height: 7-3/ 2,21 mt
Weight: 292 lbs

Robinson:

Born: August 6, 1965 in Key West, Florida
Height: 7-1 / 2,16 mt
Weight: 235 lbs

Again the Video Prooves What I`m saying:

Arvydas vs Robinson

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ&feature=related

Minute 0.34 = You Saw His Leap for the Rebound and Dunk over Robinson? :rolleyes:

[TheGrassIsGreen]

Look Guys I`ve talked to a 37 year old Man that saw the 1988 Olympics and both Arvydas and Robinson are half a year or 1 year difference and he said that Arvydas DESTROYED Robinson. How good was Robinson? Well Good to Great right? Ok so if Someone Destroys Robinson like that then he would have not just been good but GREAT!

Height: 7-3 / 2,21. Weight: 292 lbs. /


Nobody is denying Sabonis' greatness. But if you're saying that he's great because he 'destroyed' Robinson (who in 1988 was a year removed from competitive basketball), then there are hard fallacies in your logic. You base your argument off the opinion of a guy that's 37 years-old who watched the 1988 Olympics. Is the 37 year-old guy who watched the 1988 Olympics an absolute authority in basketball theory? Even so, an opinion is an opinion

[Psileas]

This man would have have averged 25-35 (55-60%) PPG, 12-16 RPG, 4-5 APG, 3-4 BPG and ofcourse Shoot Great froom the FT and 3-Point Range in his PEEK.

Now these numbers are just exaggerated speculation. Here are Sabonis' real stats:

http://www.basketpedya.com/Acc002InfJug.php?idjug=1754&idioma=3

You may argue that in the NBA he'd become better than he was in Europe, but how would he (even an improved, healthier version of him) produce in the NBA numbers that he never came close to producing in Europe, against much worse competition, let alone the fact that he never really cared about taking 25 shots per game? It also needs to be mentioned that:

1) A healthier Sabonis=a more grounded, less spectacular Sabonis. You can't be 300 lbs, have sensitive feet, do the crazy things that he did (run the floor, jump like a forward, etc) and still remain healthy for long.

2) Sabonis was never a big fan of practice. That's a thing even his old Soviet teammates admitted. That's another factor that prevented him from being healthy for longer.

[Lebron23]

Yao Ming was the leading Scorer in the 2006 FIBA World Championship, but he had never been selected in the NBA First Team.

[Sir Charles]

Nobody is denying Sabonis' greatness. But if you're saying that he's great because he 'destroyed' Robinson (who in 1988 was a year removed from competitive basketball), then there are hard fallacies in your logic. You base your argument off the opinion of a guy that's 37 years-old who watched the 1988 Olympics. Is the 37 year-old guy who watched the 1988 Olympics an absolute authority in basketball theory? Even so, an opinion is an opinion— wracked by personal bias and prejudice.

I don`t base my opinion on that only (by the way this guy that told me that Arvydas destroyed David was a black man from Phily). I saw Arvydas Play in the NBA when Crippled and Aged and you could Tell Inmediatly by his Play that this guy was Hall of Famer Caliber with ease and would have been a Top 5 Center of All Time if you saw what he could do in his 20s. I will not discuss it more:

LOOK AT THE VIDEO::hammerhead:

1986 Olympics

Arvydas vs Robinson

Arvydas at age 22 (half a year older)

David Robinson at 21

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ&feature=related

[Lebron23]

Dirk Nowitzki is still the best European that ever played in the NBA, and he was also the MVP of the 2002 FIBA World Championship

FACT

and

This is not another Whatifsports.com speculation :D

[Sir Charles]

Dirk Nowitzki is still the best European that ever played in the NBA, and he was also the MVP of the 2002 FIBA World Championship

FACT

and

This is not another Whatifsports.com speculation :D

Look dummy. The video shows it quite Clearly. Arvydas was Prime and could Leap, Run, Dunk Over Anyone, Pass, Shoot and Indimiate anyone Player with his 7`3 and 292 lbs Body.

LOOK AT THE VIDEO for urself

Arvydas Romas Sabonis
Born: December 19, 1964 in Kaunas, Lithuanian SSR, Soviet Union

David Maurice Robinson
Born: August 6, 1965 in Key West, Florida

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ&feature=related

Here is more about that:

Personal

His wife, Ingrida Mikelionytė Sabonienė, was the winner of the first Lithuanian beauty pageant, "The Beauty of Vilnius '88". They have four children. Sabonis speaks five languages: Lithuanian, Polish, Russian, Spanish, and English.

Ex-players and current players alike contend that Sabonis, little known in the U.S., would have been recognized as one of the top centers ever to play the game of basketball had he come to America in his prime. Scottie Pippen was quoted as saying that Arvydas was "the best European basketball player to ever play the game". Ex-Spur Sean Elliott routinely claimed that Arvydas "should be in the conversation as one of the greatest centers ever". Hall of Famer Bill Walton describes "Sabas" as "the greatest passing center of all time". And Dino Radja, a former Boston Celtics player, said that Sabonis would have been an all-star "ten times over" had he played his healthy years in the States.

Brian Meehan, a columnist for The Oregonian, followed Sabonis' career over the course of decades. Recalling the 1988 Olympics, when Sabonis' Soviet team beat an amateur United States team with the likes of future NBA stars David Robinson and Mitch Richmond. Meehan notes one play when a healthy Sabonis reacted to a teammate's missed shot: Sabonis slashed towards the rim, jumped over Robinson, and slammed the ball home.

Meehan is of the opinion that it was the play of Arvydas in the 1988 Olympics that influenced Team USA to use professional players in the Olympics, hence the "Dream Teams" of 1992 and 1996. Meehan ranks Sabonis as the 6th best all-time center behind, in no particular order, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

[Manute for Ever!]

I don`t base my opinion on that only (by the way this guy that told me that Arvydas destroyed David was a black man from Phily). I saw Arvydas Play in the NBA when Crippled and Aged and you could Tell Inmediatly by his Play that this guy was Hall of Famer Caliber with ease and would have been a Top 5 Center of All Time if you saw what he could do in his 20s. I will not discuss it more:

LOOK AT THE VIDEO::hammerhead:

1986 Olympics

Arvydas vs Robinson

Arvydas at age 22 (half a year older)

David Robinson at 21

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ&feature=related

Hey genius, this is the third time you have mentioned the mythical "1986 olympics". Where were they held, Who won gold in b'ball? Was this this the only time the Olympics were bi-annual, because I remember the 1984 LA games and the 1988 Seoul games.

If you are trying to convince somebody to believe your point, try getting the basics correct first.

[Lebron23]

It's time to ban this troll.

Welcome to the Village of the Banned

Sir Charles. :lol

[VCMVP1551]

He was 7-3 ft (1 Inch Taller than Jabbar, 2 Inches on Shaq and Robinson, 4 Inches on Ewing and 5 inches on Hakeem))

If you're going by real height then Robinson is 7'0" not 7'1" and I think Sabonis is 7'2" without shoes.

Robinson measured 7'0" at the 1988 Olympics.


One useful feature of the trials is that players are measured and weighed, rather than listed at their media-guide sizes, which are usually inflated. Thus, David Robinson, heretofore listed at 7-1, 235, is down to 7-0, 226.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/59884817.html?dids=59884817:59884817&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=May+21%2C+1988&author=MARK+HEISLER&pub=Los+Angeles+Times+(pre-1997+Fulltext)&desc=U.S.+Olympic+Men's+Basketball+Trials+The+Real +David+Robinson+Surfaces+Again&pqatl=google

Sabonis never looked taller than Zydrunas Ilgauskas who is 7'2" but listed at 7'3".


Weight: 279 lbs (Only Shaq Could have Battled Him in the Paint)

Mutombo may have have done a good job guarding him.


[B]I think he would reached the 30 + PPG mark and 14-16 rpg for a couple of seasons too.

There's no way his numbers would have been that high. He didn't even come close to that in the Euroleague.


I think his ASP average would been 2-3 for his first 8 to 9 seasons because the team that would have gotten Arvydas would have wanted him as the Focal Scoring Point and they would have taken advantage of his Physical Prime but then in his last 5-6 or seasons this man would have probaly averaged 4-5 ASPG with ease. His Blocks for his first 8-9 Seasons would have been 3 to 4 for a couple of Seasons too and rarely below 2.

His blocks wouldn't have been much over 2 per game. Maybe 2.5 at best. He was never one of the best shot blockers in the world..


Arvydases FG% would have hit the 60% Mark a couple of times if not more! and rarely go belowe 55% in his Prime.

No, he shot too many jumpers to be in the 55-60% range. His FG% would probably have been closer to Hakeem, Robinson and Ewing.


This man would have have averged 25-35 (55-60%) PPG, 12-16 RPG, 4-5 APG, 3-4 BPG and ofcourse Shoot Great froom the FT and 3-Point Range in his PEEK.

Nope. No way he even approachs 4 bpg and I highly doubt he'd have over 3. He wouldn't come close to 16 rpg or 35 ppg either.

[allball]

Are you kidding me?:hammerhead: He dominated Robinson in the 1988 and 1986 Olympics and Sabonis was just 1 year older.

Sabonis in the 90s would have only been a a match up in the Paint to Shaq and away from the paint to Hakeem.:applause:

true dat. he wore D-Rob out in 88.

[Sir Charles]

Sabonis OWNED > Softy and Lucky (Duncan) David Robby :)

[allball]

How did you know? He wasn't very impressive when he is playing for the Portland Trailblazers, and Rasheed Wallace was their best player during that time.

Sir Charles, you can't just predict that he is going to be an all star in the NBA because Prime David Robinson is going to schooled him in the 1990's.


the man was in his 30's with bad knees and he was still effective. Rasheed was 10 years younger. by the time Sheed became their best player, Sabonis was 35.

Sabonis would have def been an all star had he come in his prime and trust me Robinson didn't want none of him. he could still grind with Shaq who was also 8 years younger than him.

LB23 how you gonna give props to D-Rob for winning the Olympics with the Dream Team? crazy.

Anyway Arvydas may be the most skilled center period. how many could step out and hit the 3 regularly and had a quick first step off the dribble. I think the thrashing by AS made Robinson go back and work on his game.

Sabonis had 136 three pointers in his NBA career.

[Sir Charles]

the man was in his 30's with bad knees and he was still effective. Rasheed was 10 years younger. by the time Sheed became their best player, Sabonis was 35.

Sabonis would have def been an all star had he come in his prime and trust me Robinson didn't want none of him. he could still grind with Shaq who was also 8 years younger than him.

LB23 how you gonna give props to D-Rob for winning the Olympics with the Dream Team? crazy.

Anyway Arvydas may be the most skilled center period. how many could step out and hit the 3 regularly and had a quick first step off the dribble. I think the thrashing by AS made Robinson go back and work on his game.

Sabonis had 136 three pointers in his NBA career.

1-31 to 38 YEARS OLD (Past His Physical Prime: Less Speed, Less Potence, Les Agility, Less Leaping Ability)

2.INJURED FOR ALL OF HIS NBA CAREER (Major Injuries, DEAD KNEES, Crippled Knees)

Shaq said: "HE WAS THE BEST PLAYER I FACED IN MY POSITION".

ENOUGH SAID! :rolleyes:

[Lebron23]

1986 FIBA World Championshiop All-Tournament Team

Drazen Petrovic (Yugoslavia)
Arvydas Sabonis (USSR)
Oscar Schmidt (Brazil)
David Robinson (USA)
Valeri Phonetics (USSR)

I think both Sabonis and David Robinson are great players during their prime, but i think the Admiral is the better overall player because he was the the 2nd best Center in the 1990's right behind Hakeem Olajuwon.

As good as Prime Sabonis in Europe i think it's pretty difficult to translate his game in the NBA during that time because there are plenty of great center in the 1990's, and if the accusation of injecting steroids is true. I don't think the NBA would allowed him to play in their league unless he would stop using those enhancement drugs.

David Robinson also won a Gold Medal in the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, and He was the best player on the USA Team during the 1986 FIBA World Championship.

And the Admiral is one of only 4 NBA players to ever accomplished a Quadruple Double in the NBA.

[Myth]

I think both Sabonis and David Robinson are great players during their prime, but i think the Admiral is the better overall player because he was the the 2nd best Center in the 1990's right behind Hakeem Olajuwon.


How does that show he is better overall than Sabonis?

[boozehound]

That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. Old crippled Sabonis was leagues above those guys. He was also arguably the best guy to have versus prime Shaq. Imagine him in his prime.
exactly. in his prime, he was unstopable. steroids or not, dude had made skill in every aspect of the game. I might say top 3 C of all time.

[VCMVP1551]

Prime Sabonis vs Prime Robinson would be a good matchup.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg34/NBA7902/DavdRobinsonblockingashot.jpghttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg34/NBA7902/Sabonisdunk.jpg

Footwork/Post moves- Advantage Sabonis
Speed- Advantage Robinson
Athleticism- Advantage Robinson
Rebounding- Equal
Passing- Advantage Sabonis
Defense/Shot Blocking- Advantage Robinson
Shooting- Advantage Sabonis
Size/Strength- Advantage Sabonis
Scoring Mentality- Advantage Robinson

Both have advantages in many areas but I don't think either was clearly better at their best. Robinson is a top arguably a top 5 defensive center of all-time and possibly a top 5 scoring center as well but Sabonis was a better passer and a superior low post player. Sabonis was also a better shooter but Robinson could get to the basket at will and draw a lot of fouls.

Robinson's pre-injury career(7 seasons)

25.6 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 3.1 apg, 3.6 bpg, 1.7 spg, 52.6 FG%, 26.1 3P%, 74.7 FT%, 38.1 mpg, 557 games

Accomplishments during that time
1989-1990 NBA Rookie Of The Year
1991-1992 NBA Defensive Player Of The Year
1994-1995 NBA MVP
All-NBA First Team(1991, 1992, 1995, 1996)
All-NBA Second Team(1994)
All-NBA Third Team(1990, 1993)
7 time All-Star(1990-1996)
1993-1994 NBA Scoring Title
1991-1992 Blocks Leader
1990-1991 Rebound Leader
One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History
Only player in NBA history to win the Rebounding, Blocked Shots, and Scoring Titles and Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year and MVP
One of only four players to have recorded a quadruple-double
First player in NBA history to rank among the top five in rebounding, blocks and steals (per game) in a single season
Fourth player ever to score 70+ in an NBA game
Third player in NBA history to rank among the league's top 10 in five categories (7th in scoring (23.2 ppg), 4th in rebounding (12.2 rpg), 1st in blocks (4.49 per game), 5th in steals (2.32 per game) and 7th in field-goal percentage (.551)

[Artillery]

I think Sabonis is being way overrated here. There's no way he's better than a prime Robinson(a guy that once scored 71 points in a game).

[Showtime]

Sabonis is becoming overrated because of the "underrated" hype.

[Da KO King]

Let me get this straight, a player who could not do ANYTHING going to his left is now going to become of of the greatest centers in NBA history? Right... :rolleyes: