God Damn Larry Bird Was Awesome.

[fos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cFkDTtQdMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1If3OdmKqxo

Most skilled player ever.

[Loki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cFkDTtQdMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1If3OdmKqxo

Most skilled player ever.

Definitely top 2-3 in that respect, and I would barely argue if someone said he was #1. My second favorite player ever. A bada$$ mofo.

[Se]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cFkDTtQdMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1If3OdmKqxo

Most skilled player ever.

This is a newsflash, should be on ish's front page

[InspiredLebowski]

If he'd had the athletic ability to be a great defender, like Jordan, he'd hands down be the best player ever.

[kumquat]

The duel he had with dominique wilkins pretty much showed larry would be able to handle the "uber athletes" of todays game.

[PainDog]

In my opinion

Jordan > Magic > Bird > everyone else....

Though there are some guy right up there with them...

[snipes12]

last mth its charles barkley , for this month = larry bird

[Sir Charles]

Larry Bird and Charles Barkley are the most talenteted Forwards Ever.

Larry Bird = Goat SF
Charles Barkley = Goat PF

:applause:

[chocolatethunder]

If he'd had the athletic ability to be a great defender, like Jordan, he'd hands down be the best player ever.
What does that mean? If he was blacker? He had plenty of athletic ability. He wasn't a great leaper but other than that he was pretty damned athletic. He was very quick and only drove one way but no one could stop him. What's that say about his "ability"? Because he wasn't black it means that he wasn't fast or quick, instead he was "smart" and "crafty" and "hard nosed". Let me tell you something, Charles Barkley (who is one of my favorite players ever) was as "athletic" as anyone that has ever played the game and he was a terrible defender too. Bird was plenty athletic.

[gpfanz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cFkDTtQdMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1If3OdmKqxo

Most skilled player ever.

Sky high basketball IQ :bowdown:

[Manute for Ever!]

http://home2.owc.net/~mojow/civic/pics/expressions/CaptainObvious.jpg

[Da_Realist]

Please also make a thread with some brand new information about Michael Jordan and how he was pretty decent at playing basketball..

Yeah. Sometimes I think MJ is penalized for having such athletic ability. What made him great was he had such a high basketball IQ. Why else could he play at such a high level when he was an older player? Explain 1996 - 1998. He wasn't flying over anyone during those years but he was still THE best basketball player in the league. MJ's IQ was at least the same as Larry Bird's.

If you gave Larry Bird the athleticism of Michael Jordan, he would alter his game to suit those skills. The reverse is also true. If you took away some of MJ's athleticism, and gave him a 6'9" frame he would also find a way to be effective. They were both great great basketball players whose greatest asset were their minds.

[Loki]

Yeah. Sometimes I think MJ is penalized for having such athletic ability. What made him great was he had such a high basketball IQ? Why else could he play at such a high level when he was an older player. Explain 1996 - 1998. He wasn't flying over anyone during those years but he was still THE best basketball player in the league. MJ's IQ was at least the same as Larry Bird's.

If you gave Larry Bird the athleticism of Michael Jordan, he would alter his game to suit those skills. The reverse is also true. If you took away some of MJ's athleticism, and gave him a 6'9" frame he would also find a way to be effective. They were both great great basketball players whose greatest asset were their minds.

I don't know if MJ's bball IQ is as high as Bird's or not (I think it is, but I can see why people wouldn't think so), but I do think it's funny that there are people who act like Jordan was the only all-time legend with a non-stellar bball IQ. Like he coasted by on his athleticism. :oldlol:

[Sir Charles]

Bird had more b-ball IQ than Jordan . Nobody today or since has matched Bird`s court awareness or instincts for steals, rebounds and reading a defesnive or defensive play.

Do to his lack of speed and athletic abilities Bird positioned himself on the court in the most convenient way for his team to create on offensive and in the most inconvinient way for his opposing team to score. On defense it was as if was going to pull the carpet and force the other team to go the wrong way and force a turnover or bad shot. On offensive he always found a way to score, get big rebounds and ofcourse create for others like no other forward.

If Larry would have had half the athletic a bilities most players in the Nba have at average he would have scored more, not to mention his FG% would be higher, his rebounding and his defense unmatched. A Larry with Tom Chambers athletic abilities would have been something scary.

Magic and Bird had the gift that they played with a Hight IQ at a very young age. Something that Jordan later developed. That is why both Bird and Magic are so linked together, they played like veterans since comming to the nba and they made everyother teamate better by their unselfish and intelligent way of creating for others while they still dominated their position.

:applause:

Larry Bird and Sir Charles are the Greatest Most Talented and Freakish Players Ever to Play Forward. They where always a move ahead of the rest and both had disadvantages of either height, overweightness, lack of leaping ability or speed.

They both where unexpected to dominate because of their obvious disadvantages but they did through a higher IQ and talents which where unexpected and did not come as typical for their positions of SF and PF.

[Rolando]

The two players that I have watched the most play ball in the NBA are Bird and Jordan.

So here's my observation:

Bird = Ground
Jordan = Air

It is clear to everyone the advantage of being able to jump and fly like Jordan but not too many people see the advantage of being grounded and balanced. To me, that's Bird's game: Stay connected to the floor and use it as your power. Picture Bird; feet spread wide both hands on the ball: The most stable platform to pass, shoot or drive from.

I also think of how Bird held the ball in his hands. Does anyone have hands like that now? I don't think so.

Completely sure footed.
Completely sure handed.
That' Bird

[Manute for Ever!]

The two players that I have watched the most play ball in the NBA are Bird and Jordan.

So here's my observation:

Bird = Ground
Jordan = Air

It is clear to everyone the advantage of being able to jump and fly like Jordan but not too many people see the advantage of being grounded and balanced. To me, that's Bird's game: Stay connected to the floor and use it as your power. Picture Bird; feet spread wide both hands on the ball: The most stable platform to pass, shoot or drive from.

I also think of how Bird held the ball in his hands. Does anyone have hands like that now? I don't think so.

Completely sure footed.
Completely sure handed.
That' Bird

You're off to a good start, my friend :cheers:

[Aussie Dunker]

What stands out to me in those vids are Birds handles, he has the ball on a tight string and can manipulate the ball like very few can...

[Zan Tabak]

People often over look his play making ability ..the guy was unbelievable!:cheers:

[Emeka Okafor xD]

pete maravich made larry bird, they play so similar

[Manute for Ever!]

pete maravich made larry bird, they play so similar

Moving right along.... :rolleyes:

[gpfanz]

http://home2.owc.net/~mojow/civic/pics/expressions/CaptainObvious.jpg

ur so right Captain obvious! :D

[Manute for Ever!]

ur so right Captain obvious! :D

:oldlol: I just felt like being an a$$hole

[Da_Realist]

Does anyone believe MJ had an athletic advantage over his peers from 96-98? I don't. How was he such an incredibly efficient player at such an advanced age? Maybe a better question is this... Has there ever been a player that has dominated the league on both ends of the floor from 33-35 the way MJ did? Keep in mind that he played a position that required him to defend (and be defended by) younger, quicker and (at that time) more explosive players.

How was he so effective as a 40 year old? He had no hops and no quickness, playing guys (shooting guards) that are the best athletes in the league.

By the way, shouldn't the other side of the court also be considered?

This is not a post against Larry Bird. That guy was incredible and deserves all the praise for what he was able to accomplish. He certainly could do some things on the court better than MJ could. This is mostly for those people that think that MJ was an athletic freak for the whole of his career. He wasn't. You don't dominate the league for 13 years just on athletic ability. He was pretty damn smart too.

Larry and MJ played too different positions and those positions required totally different skill sets. Larry wasn't quick but he didn't need to be as quick as MJ to dominate his peers (small forwards). Larry's 6'9" frame helped him see over guys to pass or shoot despite not having the quickness to get around his defender. (For example, in 87 and 88 against the Pistons, he was guarded by 6'5" Adrian Dantley) To say, "if Larry had athleticism..." would be like me saying, "if Isiah was 6'6" he would be unstoppable".

Larry used the gifts (and he had some, by the way) that was given to him. MJ used what was available to him. For every person that says Larry would have done this or that had he had more athleticism, I could say MJ would do this or that if he was given 2 or 3 more inches.

[gpfanz]

:oldlol: I just felt like being an a$$hole

I really enjoyed that pic seriously thou :oldlol:

[Manute for Ever!]

I really enjoyed that pic seriously thou :oldlol:

Thanks, man :cheers:

[tontoz]

Court vision is just something guys have or don't. Bird and Magic both had it. I don't think Jordan had it to the extent those two did.

But Jordan had so much skill it was a joke. He changed his game when his athleticism started to fade. Early in his career i don't remember him shooting many fadeaways but that was his signature shot when he got older.

[Da_Realist]

Court vision is just something guys have or don't. Bird and Magic both had it. I don't think Jordan had it to the extent those two did.

But Jordan had so much skill it was a joke. He changed his game when his athleticism started to fade. Early in his career i don't remember him shooting many fadeaways but that was his signature shot when he got older.

I agree. They all had skills that set them apart from their peers...even each other. MJ wasn't blind, but no he didn't have the court vision that Bird and Magic had.

[dgbigballer9329]

Larry used the gifts (and he had some, by the way) that was given to him. MJ used what was available to him. For every person that says Larry would have done this or that had he had more athleticism, I could say MJ would do this or that if he was given 2 or 3 more inches.

Basically.

First off, everyone knows Bird was great. But I can't even tell you how many times I've heard....."Man, imagine if Larry Bird were athletic?? He was so smart, 3 steps ahead of everyone!!! He was the greatest even though he was slow, yadda yadda yadda"


First off, prime Bird wasn't even that unathletic. He wasn't Dominique but he wasn't Darius Songaila (first slow ass dude I could think of) out there. He ran the break, he dunked, he could put the ball on the floor, he could go up and get rebounds. This talk about his mystical abilities to just always know where the ball is even though he was so much more unathletic than people makes me kinda nauseous. He definitely had great ball skills but not some surreal ability to just find the ball despite ridiculous limitations. ****, when he was older and a little heftier, and a little injured, he wasn't making a lot of the plays he made when he was younger. Think his mind just forgot those things?



Second, you don't get props for being slower than someone and you don't get slighted because you're blessed with speed and leaping ability. I'm sorry, that sh*t doesn't make sense. Bird's hand-eye coordination wasn't something you can just work on and develop........just like athleticism isn't. I don't hear people saying "Man! Imagine if Stromile Swift had hand-eye coordination!!"

Like someone said, you are given certain tools and it's up to you to maximize them and work on your weaknesses. Like also said, older MJ was not ahead of every other guard in athleticism late in his career. Sh*t, guys like Ronnie Brewer and Sonny Weems and Gerald Green were more athletic than older MJ was -- don't get your panties all in a bunch people, I'm not saying they were better -- but they didn't make it work for them like MJ did. MJ was smart enough to use any tools he had at a given time and find a way to be the best.

I really do think crazy athletes like Dwight Howard and even Lebron in a sense get slighted for being blessed. It's a skill.......hey, natural selection. I'm sure there's some pudgy 5-10 kid out there with amazing basketball instincts and savvy, but if it limits him.........tough. Props shouldn't be given for your weaknesses.

[Da_Realist]

Basically.

First off, everyone knows Bird was great. But I can't even tell you how many times I've heard....."Man, imagine if Larry Bird were athletic?? He was so smart, 3 steps ahead of everyone!!! He was the greatest even though he was slow, yadda yadda yadda"


First off, prime Bird wasn't even that unathletic. He wasn't Dominique but he wasn't Darius Songaila (first slow ass dude I could think of) out there. He ran the break, he dunked, he could put the ball on the floor, he could go up and get rebounds. This talk about his mystical abilities to just always know where the ball is even though he was so much more unathletic than people makes me kinda nauseous. He definitely had great ball skills but not some surreal ability to just find the ball despite ridiculous limitations. ****, when he was older and a little heftier, and a little injured, he wasn't making a lot of the plays he made when he was younger. Think his mind just forgot those things?



Second, you don't get props for being slower than someone and you don't get slighted because you're blessed with speed and leaping ability. I'm sorry, that sh*t doesn't make sense. Bird's hand-eye coordination wasn't something you can just work on and develop........just like athleticism isn't. I don't hear people saying "Man! Imagine if Stromile Swift had hand-eye coordination!!"

Like someone said, you are given certain tools and it's up to you to maximize them and work on your weaknesses. Like also said, older MJ was not ahead of every other guard in athleticism late in his career. Sh*t, guys like Ronnie Brewer and Sonny Weems and Gerald Green were more athletic than older MJ was -- don't get your panties all in a bunch people, I'm not saying they were better -- but they didn't make it work for them like MJ did. MJ was smart enough to use any tools he had at a given time and find a way to be the best.

I really do think crazy athletes like Dwight Howard and even Lebron in a sense get slighted for being blessed. It's a skill.......hey, natural selection. I'm sure there's some pudgy 5-10 kid out there with amazing basketball instincts and savvy, but if it limits him.........tough. Props shouldn't be given for your weaknesses.

I should delete my post. You said it better than I did. :cheers:

[Trax416]

Basically.

First off, everyone knows Bird was great. But I can't even tell you how many times I've heard....."Man, imagine if Larry Bird were athletic?? He was so smart, 3 steps ahead of everyone!!! He was the greatest even though he was slow, yadda yadda yadda"


First off, prime Bird wasn't even that unathletic. He wasn't Dominique but he wasn't Darius Songaila (first slow ass dude I could think of) out there. He ran the break, he dunked, he could put the ball on the floor, he could go up and get rebounds. This talk about his mystical abilities to just always know where the ball is even though he was so much more unathletic than people makes me kinda nauseous. He definitely had great ball skills but not some surreal ability to just find the ball despite ridiculous limitations. ****, when he was older and a little heftier, and a little injured, he wasn't making a lot of the plays he made when he was younger. Think his mind just forgot those things?



Second, you don't get props for being slower than someone and you don't get slighted because you're blessed with speed and leaping ability. I'm sorry, that sh*t doesn't make sense. Bird's hand-eye coordination wasn't something you can just work on and develop........just like athleticism isn't. I don't hear people saying "Man! Imagine if Stromile Swift had hand-eye coordination!!"

Like someone said, you are given certain tools and it's up to you to maximize them and work on your weaknesses. Like also said, older MJ was not ahead of every other guard in athleticism late in his career. Sh*t, guys like Ronnie Brewer and Sonny Weems and Gerald Green were more athletic than older MJ was -- don't get your panties all in a bunch people, I'm not saying they were better -- but they didn't make it work for them like MJ did. MJ was smart enough to use any tools he had at a given time and find a way to be the best.

I really do think crazy athletes like Dwight Howard and even Lebron in a sense get slighted for being blessed. It's a skill.......hey, natural selection. I'm sure there's some pudgy 5-10 kid out there with amazing basketball instincts and savvy, but if it limits him.........tough. Props shouldn't be given for your weaknesses.

People think you need to jump high, lift weights and be black to be athletic. Thats far from the truth.

There are more categories that make you athletic then jumping ability and power.

[dgbigballer9329]

People think you need to jump high, lift weights and be black to be athletic. Thats far from the truth.

There are more categories that make you athletic then jumping ability and power.

Please. Typical white-man complex. And i'm white.

Blacks have been more athletic than whites in the NBA, but that doesn't mean athletic whites are called stiffs. All I hear about this Joe Alexander kid from West Virginia is how crazy athletic he is. Brent Barry, Rex Chapman were great athletes and were called as such. What do you hear when someone's talking about David Lee??? If you are white and explosive, people will call you as such. It just so happens that most.........haven't been.

As for Bird, he was neither an elite athlete nor unathletic in his prime. I agree, there's more to it than jumping and power. Lateral quickness, first step, agility, fluidity, etc. Bird was not superior in those areas and not completely lacking either. You can't do what he did and be a statue.

I wouldn't call the things he was absolutely elite in related to athleticism though, per se.

[AllenIverson3]

Larry Bird and Charles Barkley are the most talenteted Forwards Ever.

Larry Bird = Goat SF
Charles Barkley = Goat PF

:applause:

um....Charles Barkley said himself that Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time. So no
1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Barkley

[Koop1]

If he played in the league today, he would look sub-par imo

[AllenIverson3]

Larry Bird Is The Greatest Basketball Player Ever!

[dgbigballer9329]

Gimme Barkley over Malone all day. Barkley did things Malone couldn't dream about.

[Kblaze8855]

I really dont think ive seen a better player than Bird. Ive seen more complete players considering defense(all things considered...Kevin Garnett is a more complete player than Larry Bird). But ive never seen a guy be more effective. Nobody id call more skilled. Giving Bird props for dominating with his lack of athletic ability(he wasnt awful but hes easily the least athletic top 10 player id say just behind Magic) isnt calling a negative a positive. Its just pointing out that he had to do a little more to get by. Doesnt mean what he did on the bottom line is more impressive. He needs no help for his legacy. Hes a 3 time champ, 3 times MVP, 9-10 time all nba first teamer who has had 60 point games and near 50 point triple doubles. He probably could have had at least 2 quadruple doubles if he cared. He sat out an entire 4th quarter with 30/12/10/9. And I believe he had a 20 something 15/10/7 or 8 game as well where he was winning in a blowout and sat out. Granted Clyde drexler did the same(twice he was a rebound or assist short of a quadruple double).

Larry is to this day the only player to consistiently make me think my team couldnt win no matter how well they were playing at the time. Iremember late in his career(not like...91 late but kinda late) he missed a game and the Bulls beat the Celtics kinda bad. I dont think the final was that lopsided but they got worked in reality. Next game Bird didnt really do anything for at least 3 quarters. It had to be like 4 minutes left and he got off the bench and had this disgusted look on his face coming in. He had to score like 14 points in a couple minutes finding every open teammate and drawing charges. We were up but it felt like no matter what...no matter how good we were right then...he would be better. He would not lose. I never felt anything like it again till about 2006 when the Bulls were up late vs the Cavs and Lebron had that "**** all that...." look. And they ended up winning. I think he made a 3 with like a second left to force OT then just worked us.

But Bird made me feel that way ALL the time. Like no matter what....in the end...the Celtics would win. Magic was clutch. Hakeem would dominate. Shaq too. Isiah always seemed to win vs the Bulls. But Larry scared me. Really makes me understand what Magic meant when he said Larry is the only player he feared on the floor.

Oh and the greatest "He shouldnt be able to do that" game I ever saw played was old back/knee injury Larry giving the Blazers about 50/14/12 and the "WTF"? 3 to tie and force the first OT after they were down 7 with a minute to go. He throw up a near falling down floater from 3 that just should not have gone in. Old slow man guarded by Drexler and Kersey. great athletes. He just worked them. Cold...vicious. Ive never seen someone so easily destroy someone he should not have had an advantage over. Its still the highest scoring game anyone ever had a triple double in...and he wasnt even supposed to play. Guy was laying on the floor at that time because sitting on the bench hurt too much. And he gives two dunk contest finalists 50/14/12 dripping in swagger the whole time?

I have more respect for Larry as a player than anyone I can think of. And I mean in all of sports. Hes the definition of "cant knock the hustle" to me. Heart of a 12th man skills of a legend. Hes not better than Jordan....but he was just as effective.

[leijamoosa]

Totally agree with the previous poster, except larry was on my team ;D He's the GOAT to me and i don't care what anyone else says.

[Loki]

I really dont think ive seen a better player than Bird. Ive seen more complete players considering defense(all things considered...Kevin Garnett is a more complete player than Larry Bird). But ive never seen a guy be more effective. Nobody id call more skilled. Giving Bird props for dominating with his lack of athletic ability(he wasnt awful but hes easily the least athletic top 10 player id say just behind Magic) isnt calling a negative a positive. Its just pointing out that he had to do a little more to get by. Doesnt mean what he did on the bottom line is more impressive. He needs no help for his legacy. Hes a 3 time champ, 3 times MVP, 9-10 time all nba first teamer who has had 60 point games and near 50 point triple doubles. He probably could have had at least 2 quadruple doubles if he cared. He sat out an entire 4th quarter with 30/12/10/9. And I believe he had a 20 something 15/10/7 or 8 game as well where he was winning in a blowout and sat out. Granted Clyde drexler did the same(twice he was a rebound or assist short of a quadruple double).

Larry is to this day the only player to consistiently make me think my team couldnt win no matter how well they were playing at the time. Iremember late in his career(not like...91 late but kinda late) he missed a game and the Bulls beat the Celtics kinda bad. I dont think the final was that lopsided but they got worked in reality. Next game Bird didnt really do anything for at least 3 quarters. It had to be like 4 minutes left and he got off the bench and had this disgusted look on his face coming in. He had to score like 14 points in a couple minutes finding every open teammate and drawing charges. We were up but it felt like no matter what...no matter how good we were right then...he would be better. He would not lose. I never felt anything like it again till about 2006 when the Bulls were up late vs the Cavs and Lebron had that "**** all that...." look. And they ended up winning. I think he made a 3 with like a second left to force OT then just worked us.

But Bird made me feel that way ALL the time. Like no matter what....in the end...the Celtics would win. Magic was clutch. Hakeem would dominate. Shaq too. Isiah always seemed to win vs the Bulls. But Larry scared me. Really makes me understand what Magic meant when he said Larry is the only player he feared on the floor.

Oh and the greatest "He shouldnt be able to do that" game I ever saw played was old back/knee injury Larry giving the Blazers about 50/14/12 and the "WTF"? 3 to tie and force the first OT after they were down 7 with a minute to go. He throw up a near falling down floater from 3 that just should not have gone in. Old slow man guarded by Drexler and Kersey. great athletes. He just worked them. Cold...vicious. Ive never seen someone so easily destroy someone he should not have had an advantage over. Its still the highest scoring game anyone ever had a triple double in...and he wasnt even supposed to play. Guy was laying on the floor at that time because sitting on the bench hurt too much. And he gives two dunk contest finalists 50/14/12 dripping in swagger the whole time?

I have more respect for Larry as a player than anyone I can think of. And I mean in all of sports. Hes the definition of "cant knock the hustle" to me. Heart of a 12th man skills of a legend. Hes not better than Jordan....but he was just as effective.

This is a beautiful freaking post that should be framed, just like your big Jordan post from a while back. Perfectly stated. :rockon: Bird was amazing.

[Sir Charles]

um....Charles Barkley said himself that Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time. So no
1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Barkley

Wrong :no: he said "Duncan will probably be the Greatest Powerforward of All Time..when he retires but I like my chances" (abviously do to his titles but go ask him if he would take himself in his Prime or Duncan in his Prime and just guess what he would pick like any other person that knows about b-ball? :confusedshrug:

1-Barkley
2-Duncan
3-Mchale/Malone

[momo]

Great to see Bird getting his props in this thread. I was expecting to see more u tube kiddies slagging him... that whole "he would be a bench player now" crap.

Great post Kblaze8855. I know that feeling all too well. "Ahhh crap, what is he going to do to us now" :D

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Does anyone believe MJ had an athletic advantage over his peers from 96-98? I don't. How was he such an incredibly efficient player at such an advanced age?
he wasn't really THAT efficient, actually, not nearly as much as in the early 90s.

[Loki]

he wasn't really THAT efficient, actually, not nearly as much as in the early 90s.

Let me guess: TS%, right? :oldlol: LOLs

[Da_Realist]

he wasn't really THAT efficient, actually, not nearly as much as in the early 90s.

He wasn't that efficient compared to himself. The man was 30-something years old and won MVP twice. There are players in their prime that would kill to play like he did when he was 33-35 years old.

Let's look at his numbers at age 33 (1996)
30.4 points, 4.3 assists, 6.6 rebounds, 2.2 steals, 50% fg

Those numbers would have won the MVP this past season. And he didn't do it on athleticism.

Let's look at when some of his peers turned 33. Any of them stack up to MJ at 33 years old? 34? 35?

Bird turned 33 in 1989 (I know he was injured this year)
Magic turned 33 in 1993 (HIV retirement, I know)
Patrick Ewing -- 1995
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 1996
Isiah Thomas -- 1994
John Stockton -- 1995
Karl Malone -- 1996
Charles Barkley -- 1996
Dominique Wilkins -- 1993
Scottie Pippen -- 1998
David Robinson -- 1998
Shaq -- 2005
Gary Payton -- 2001
Shawn Kemp -- 2002

KBlaze -- Great post, by the way. :applause:

[tontoz]

If he played in the league today, he would look sub-par imo

In other words you are a teenager who never saw him play. Thanks for your "insight".

[Da_Realist]

Young Larry Bird working the Sixers. Hustling for rebounds, hustling for loose balls, racing down the court on fast breaks...this is young Larry Bird. Faked Caldwell Jones out of his shoes even though he was 10 feet away. Then did the same thing to Bobby Jones. Then did the same thing to Dr. J

Video quality isn't that great, but it was worth posting.

Larry Bird vs Sixers 03-01-81 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5i1dP_L6Ts)

[tontoz]

The duel he had with dominique wilkins pretty much showed larry would be able to handle the "uber athletes" of todays game.


I was watching that live. It was unbelivable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxqKLEMTBo4

[BarberSchool]

If he'd had the athletic ability to be a great defender, like Jordan, he'd hands down be the best player ever.Shocking thing is, as bad as his foot speed was, his f#@king hand speed allowed him to be among the league leaders in steals.

And when he got steals, he didn't secure the ball and get it to his PG, he generally stole the ball and immediately capitalized on the situation in the blink of an eye. Unreal.

I LOVE Jabbar, Barkley, and really respect what Kobe has achieved...
but hands down Larry is #2 all-time behind Mike.

[KG5MVP]

Mj was the most skilled player ever

[KG5MVP]

Shocking thing is, as bad as his foot speed was, his f#@king hand speed allowed him to be among the league leaders in steals.

And when he got steals, he didn't secure the ball and get it to his PG, he generally stole the ball and immediately capitalized on the situation in the blink of an eye. Unreal.

I LOVE Jabbar, Barkley, and really respect what Kobe has achieved...
but hands down Larry is #2 all-time behind Mike.

I agree Larry is #2 behind Mike

[Da_Realist]

Shocking thing is, as bad as his foot speed was, his f#@king hand speed allowed him to be among the league leaders in steals.

And when he got steals, he didn't secure the ball and get it to his PG, he generally stole the ball and immediately capitalized on the situation in the blink of an eye. Unreal.

I LOVE Jabbar, Barkley, and really respect what Kobe has achieved...
but hands down Larry is #2 all-time behind Mike.

So many people make a big deal out of Larry being slow, but he's faster than Paul Pierce. And more decisive with and without the ball than damn near everybody. Foot speed in basketball is overrated. It's really about anticipation. And Bird had more than most. Nearly everything in basketball is related to anticipation. Very little of the game relies on how fast you get from point A to point B.

[Patrick Chewing]

Larry Bird just had the touch. He had those soft hands and ability to recognize his distance from the basket to hit the perfect shot. What he lacked in physicality, he made up for it by smart passes, moving great without out the ball, and just having the touch from anywhere on the court.

[Svendiggity]

I have more respect for Larry as a player than anyone I can think of. And I mean in all of sports. Hes the definition of "cant knock the hustle" to me. Heart of a 12th man skills of a legend.

This.

[AirTupac]

:applause:

[jbot]

my fave player ever.

[OldSchoolBBall]

One athletic aspect of Bird that's often overlooked is that he was EXTREMELY quick in terms of upper body movements (ball fakes, shot fakes, body jukes etc.). What you would call "twitch" movements with the arms and torso/shoulders. In fact, the only guy who I've seen who was quicker than him in this respect is Jordan.

[rammerman]

One athletic aspect of Bird that's often overlooked is that he was EXTREMELY quick in terms of upper body movements (ball fakes, shot fakes, body jukes etc.). What you would call "twitch" movements with the arms and torso/shoulders. In fact, the only guy who I've seen who was quicker than him in this respect is Jordan.

This. I began watching NBA in the very late 80s as a kid so I missed out on the younger Bird. He has always been a favorite of mine, but watching that video...I was shocked at how quick his ball fakes and jab steps were. I had to watch some of those parts twice because I thought maybe the video wasn't at normal speed. Very impressive.

[sh0wtime]

One of the most complete & versatile players to ever play this game.

[alenleomessi]

One and only

[laronprofit9]

Larry Bird was so damn clever using his body.

He has excellent body control actually. The way he uses his legs and torso to create space is just genius. Its not all about quickness, dribbling moves, and crossover with this guy. He didn't have to use them. He just knows how to use his body and control his body to keep his defender away from the ball he was controlling. He's by far the best I've seen in this category with Jordan just behind all-time. Currently Kobe is probably the most clever at using his body. But Bird is the GOAT at this.

A guy could be strapped to Bird, and with Bird's "modest" leaping ability, he shouldn't be able to get a good shot off. But he just knew how to create space with his body in such a clever way. By bumping defenders off with his rock solid frame and balance. He just contorts and twists his torso, places his feet in the perfect place, and get his shot off with enough space to keep the defender from getting a good contest.

He knew how to play the game grounded. Because he played close to the ground, he could get some shots/layups off that high flyers could not. He could still have good precision while he was falling to the ground on some of his layups. Bird's concentration is just incredible.

Larry Bird's instincts on offense, loose balls, and hustle plays are the best ever. He always knew where the ball was going a split second before everyone else. Bird just knew where the basketball was going to be. He knew where to place himself on offense, and its just scary good how well he does this. Greatest B Ball IQ ever? (I hope Kobe trains in the off-season with this guy to help his mental approach),


Bird's "punch" pass is amazing. So much velocity and precision. His passing was incredible for the SF position. Arguably just as good as Lebron is right now, and close to Magic. He might be the best passing forward of all time.

He's the perfect basketball player every coach wants a player to turn out to be. He's smart, clever, un-selfish, and knows how to get the most out of everything he's been given.

[Zan Tabak]

Just looking over his career stats...

In the 85-86 season he averaged, 25.9ppg, 2.1 stls ,8.2 ast's, 9.3 rebounds, 92.7 ft%, .41.1 3pt%, 51.7 fg% all while playing 42.8 minutes a game.

:eek: :bowdown:

[PowerGlove]

:sleeping

Where's the dunks?

[Zan Tabak]

:sleeping

Where's the dunks?

lol...layups are worth the same amount of points.

[ILLsmak]

It's amazing. A lot of people say it was because he's white that what he does is so impressive, but to me it was his swag. It was that he could embarrass someone without dunking on their face.

No doubt, MJ was better... but was Bird really that far behind? I don't think so. I think Bird could also have fit into any team.

The people who say he couldn't have played today amaze me...

Lastly, still not buying that Magic is better than Bird... or even close. Anyone who wants to come out and start naming names like Tim Duncan over Bird deserves to get slapped.

And I can say this, with conviction, despite the fact that I didn't start watching the NBA religiously until after Bird retired.

-Smak

[jbot]

:sleeping

Where's the dunks?
i think Bird has only dunked a handful of times in nba games. :oldlol: i can only think of about 2 i've seen him do.

[Fatal9]

Young Larry Bird working the Sixers. Hustling for rebounds, hustling for loose balls, racing down the court on fast breaks...this is young Larry Bird. Faked Caldwell Jones out of his shoes even though he was 10 feet away. Then did the same thing to Bobby Jones. Then did the same thing to Dr. J

Video quality isn't that great, but it was worth posting.

Larry Bird vs Sixers 03-01-81 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5i1dP_L6Ts)
Good stuff, love watching '80-'83 Bird. His work rate back then was even more amazing, never took a play off. Could actually make a lot of athletic plays back then too, from poster dunks (see below) to fastbreak blocks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI08KkeAl4g&#t=1m37s) (I see another one in the video you posted).


:sleeping

Where's the dunks?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaKRghcLQSY

[Alhazred]

Oh and the greatest "He shouldnt be able to do that" game I ever saw played was old back/knee injury Larry giving the Blazers about 50/14/12 and the "WTF"? 3 to tie and force the first OT after they were down 7 with a minute to go. He throw up a near falling down floater from 3 that just should not have gone in. Old slow man guarded by Drexler and Kersey. great athletes. He just worked them. Cold...vicious. Ive never seen someone so easily destroy someone he should not have had an advantage over. Its still the highest scoring game anyone ever had a triple double in...and he wasnt even supposed to play. Guy was laying on the floor at that time because sitting on the bench hurt too much. And he gives two dunk contest finalists 50/14/12 dripping in swagger the whole time?


I was just watching clips from that game on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woAK1i-o2wI&p=EF2E39439B664932&playnext=1&index=23

Still can't believe he did that against a team that would go on to make the Finals and had the MVP runner-up. Astounding.

[OldSchoolBBall]

No doubt, MJ was better... but was Bird really that far behind? I don't think so.

Offensively Bird is not far behind at all. One could even argue he's equal.

[laronprofit9]

Larry Bird was so damn clever using his body.

He has excellent body control actually. The way he uses his legs and torso to create space is just genius. Its not all about quickness, dribbling moves, and crossover with this guy. He didn't have to use them. He just knows how to use his body and control his body to keep his defender away from the ball he was controlling. He's by far the best I've seen in this category with Jordan just behind all-time. Currently Kobe is probably the most clever at using his body. But Bird is the GOAT at this.

A guy could be strapped to Bird, and with Bird's "modest" leaping ability, he shouldn't be able to get a good shot off. But he just knew how to create space with his body in such a clever way. By bumping defenders off with his rock solid frame and balance. He just contorts and twists his torso, places his feet in the perfect place, and get his shot off with enough space to keep the defender from getting a good contest.

He knew how to play the game grounded. Because he played close to the ground, he could get some shots/layups off that high flyers could not. He could still have good precision while he was falling to the ground on some of his layups. Bird's concentration is just incredible.

Larry Bird's instincts on offense, loose balls, and hustle plays are the best ever. He always knew where the ball was going a split second before everyone else. Bird just knew where the basketball was going to be. He knew where to place himself on offense, and its just scary good how well he does this. Greatest B Ball IQ ever? (I hope Kobe trains in the off-season with this guy to help his mental approach),


Bird's "punch" pass is amazing. So much velocity and precision. His passing was incredible for the SF position. Arguably just as good as Lebron is right now, and close to Magic. He might be the best passing forward of all time.

He's the perfect basketball player every coach wants a player to turn out to be. He's smart, clever, un-selfish, and knows how to get the most out of everything he's been given.

People should also acknowledge Wilkins in that 1988 game 7 against Bird. He was just as incredible, or arguably in some cases more so that game, since he more overall points for the entire game. Wilkins with 47 Bird with 34.

[Micku]

Larry Bird in the 1986 NBA Finals:

24pts, 9.5 asts, 9.7 rebs

Flirted with a triple double the whole series! :bowdown:


Kevin Mchale wasn't so bad either!

I think he had 26 pts, 11 rebs, and 60% shooting. Correct me if I'm wrong though. I'm pretty sure I'm wrong about the rebs. He could've won NBA Finals MVP too.

[west]

Is he the most confident NBA player ever?

[Round Mound]

I was just watching clips from that game on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woAK1i-o2wI&p=EF2E39439B664932&playnext=1&index=23

Still can't believe he did that against a team that would go on to make the Finals and had the MVP runner-up. Astounding.

That was at age 35 and with incredible injuries since 1988 (never was the same after 1988) :bowdown:

[Round Mound]

Larry Bird in the 1986 NBA Finals:

24pts, 9.5 asts, 9.7 rebs

Flirted with a triple double the whole series! :bowdown:


Kevin Mchale wasn't so bad either!

I think he had 26 pts, 11 rebs, and 60% shooting. Correct me if I'm wrong though. I'm pretty sure I'm wrong about the rebs. He could've won NBA Finals MVP too.

McHale for the 86 Finals: 25.8 PPG (57.3% FG), 8.5 RPG & 2.5 BPG

:bowdown:

Bird for the 86 Finals: 24.0 PPG (48.2% FG), 9.7 RPG, 9.5 APG & 2.7 SPG

:bowdown:

[BarberSchool]

^Bird averaging pretty much a triple double with 2.7 steals, with McHale tearing it up down low plus 2.5 blocks......


....as much as I liked showtime.....that Celtics squad.....that's the official squad of the 80's right there.

[32jazz]

^Bird averaging pretty much a triple double with 2.7 steals, with McHale tearing it up down low plus 2.5 blocks......


....as much as I liked showtime.....that Celtics squad.....that's the official squad of the 80's right there.
:facepalm

That's why the Lakers spanked the Celtics 2-1 head to head in the Finals. Lakers should have won '84 as well:banghead:

Lakers won 5 Finals to 3.(nearly 6-2) Played in 8 NBA Finals to the Celtics 5.

MAGIC = GOAT. Period.

[ronniec]

So funny that, a few days ago we had a thread comparing Duncan and Bird...
as a life long Celtic fan, my vote always goes to Larry. Not only Bird is better than Duncan in my point of view (in fact I don't think it is appropriate to compare them because they play different positions and in different era), he is thd kind of player that in another universe... with Jordan and Magic. Kobe is the next.

[jlip]

I think that Bird is the only career 20/10/5 player in NBA history. Others are close though.

[necya]

great thread and comments with sense ! (rare on ISH)
it's just make me smile when i watch Bird plays. i always ask myself, is there a secret to play like that?? haha

btw, talking about unathleticism... do you have ever seen a guy unathletic playing 82 bball games in 6 months ??

[BEAST Griffin]

Bird is overrated. If you look at the pace of the game, average shooting percentages, etc. it puts it all into perspective.

Great player. But clearly not GOAT type material.

[Andrei89]

Bird is overrated. If you look at the pace of the game, average shooting percentages, etc. it puts it all into perspective.

Great player. But clearly not GOAT type material.


^^

:banana: :banana: :banana:

We have another idiot on this board.

[97 bulls]

^^

:banana: :banana: :banana:

We have another idiot on this board.
Instead of calling him names, why don't you check him with facts. What he says has some validity.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Instead of calling him names, why don't you check him with facts. What he says has some validity.

LMAO :oldlol:

Yeah man, it's PIPPEN who would be considered the legend if he played his peak years in the mid-late 80's! PIPPEN >= Bird. :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

LMAO :oldlol:

Yeah man, it's PIPPEN who would be considered the legend if he played his peak years in the mid-late 80's! PIPPEN >= Bird. :oldlol:
Lol. now your finally seeing the light. Only a few million more people to go. And pippen will get the respect he deserves.

[ronniec]

Bird is overrated. If you look at the pace of the game, average shooting percentages, etc. it puts it all into perspective.

Great player. But clearly not GOAT type material.


I don't think you could find another SF that could have such an impact to his team and the league. Bird was just a total package. Don't tell me he did not run fast enough and did not jump high enough and did not dunk enough so he was not a GOAT type.

Overrated is a word to describe someone catches all the spotlights and people have high hopes on, but accomplished none or not enough. Look at Bird's resume, and no one can say he is overrated, only except you.

[ronniec]

LMAO :oldlol:

Yeah man, it's PIPPEN who would be considered the legend if he played his peak years in the mid-late 80's! PIPPEN >= Bird. :oldlol:

Was Pippen ever a go-to guy?
What did he prove when not playing with Jordan?
Was Pippen ever a franchise player? A player that you would build a team around?

He is > than Bird??? :lol

If you say Pippen would be a great when playing in the mid-80's, then we can say Lebron James is > than Pippen if he could play in the Bull's championship days.. James is just simply better than Pippen in every aspect physically.
You sound like Gretzky cannot survive in nowadays hockey because games in the past was slow and less physical.

[97 bulls]

Was Pippen ever a go-to guy?
What did he prove when not playing with Jordan?
Was Pippen ever a franchise player? A player that you would build a team around?

He is > than Bird??? :lol

If you say Pippen would be a great when playing in the mid-80's, then we can say Lebron James is > than Pippen if he could play in the Bull's championship days.. James is just simply better than Pippen in every aspect physically.
You sound like Gretzky cannot survive in nowadays hockey because games in the past was slow and less physical.
Actually, his post was a snipe at me. Weve gone back and forth about larry bird and pippen. He doesn't believe that pippen and bird are on the same level. He ranks pippen along the lines of a prime josh howard. And is one of the co-founders of the scottie pippen haters fan club.

[97 bulls]

Was Pippen ever a go-to guy?
What did he prove when not playing with Jordan?
Was Pippen ever a franchise player? A player that you would build a team around?

He is > than Bird??? :lol

If you say Pippen would be a great when playing in the mid-80's, then we can say Lebron James is > than Pippen if he could play in the Bull's championship days.. James is just simply better than Pippen in every aspect physically.
You sound like Gretzky cannot survive in nowadays hockey because games in the past was slow and less physical.
Oh and to answer your qustions, or before I do. We really don't need to have this conversation if you feel defense is not as important as offense, the only way a player should be ranked is by their offensive exploits, and the 80s is the only relavent era in basketball. If you feel this way then you are close-minded and we don't need to go any further. Cuz im honesly tired of checking guys like old school basketball, on the relavence of scottie pippen. He's a stats whore. Nothing more nothing less.

[Round Mound]

Larry shot alot thats the only defect he had and his potence was weak other than that there has never been a smarter and more skilled player than him floor wise

He scored alot and did not need to go to the line much

[ronniec]

Oh and to answer your qustions, or before I do. We really don't need to have this conversation if you feel defense is not as important as offense, the only way a player should be ranked is by their offensive exploits, and the 80s is the only relavent era in basketball. If you feel this way then you are close-minded and we don't need to go any further. Cuz im honesly tired of checking guys like old school basketball, on the relavence of scottie pippen. He's a stats whore. Nothing more nothing less.

I like Pippen, great player, especially he defense and steals... but let's not forget Bird career average 10 rebounds & 1.73 steals per game, if you talk about defense for an offensive player.

Anyway, I don't like comparing players from different era. No reason to argue who is better who is not. You have the right to think Pippen is better, and I think Bird is. In the end, both were the best SF in their playing days, and both are in the HOF.

[LA KB24]

:sleeping

Where's the dunks?
:roll::roll:

[JustinJDW]

God, I wish I had the shot and confidence and just plain old skill of Larry Bird. What a great ****ing player. Basketball IQ off the damn charts.

And what still blows my mind about all of this is that he looks nothing like what a usual NBA Superstar/Legend looks like. The guy is from French Lick, Indiana, and he honestly looks like a freaking hillbilly. Imagine bringing a guy looking like him to a streetball basketball game and be like, "This guy can ball man!" The same with guys like Kevin McHale and John Stockton.

I love the guy man. Greatest SF of All Time. Greatest Shooter of All Time. Greatest Basketball IQ of All Time. Greatest All-Around Player of All Time.

http://product.images.fansedge.com/33-38/33-38440-F.jpg

[Da_Realist]

Larry Bird vs Bucks 1986 ECF Game 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6Dl_LNzH4o)

Larry Bird puts on a show in Milwaukee to close out the Bucks

[GiveItToBurrito]

With today's emphasis on the three, he could have been even better. Probably as a four, he could have averaged another couple of points a game and put up Nash-type shooting numbers. :bowdown:

[The_Yearning]

Larry Bird vs Bucks 1986 ECF Game 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6Dl_LNzH4o)

Larry Bird puts on a show in Milwaukee to close out the Bucks

Lol wow...the defense was horrible back then.

[BallinUSA]

I picture LB on a farm somewhere in Indiana getting shots off. He just loved the game. Bird is the kind of player you truly miss watching even after all this time. Quiet greatness beats flash any day of the week. imo



The Jump Manual
http://680b6yd8o22h2z7a76q6kg-0sb.hop.clickbank.net

[Big#50]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cFkDTtQdMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1If3OdmKqxo

Most skilled player ever.
Damn the 80's sucked. I can only wonder how good Dirk would look playing in that era.

[Da_Realist]

Damn the 80's sucked. I can only wonder how good Dirk would look playing in that era.

:facepalm

[the_wise_one]

:sleeping

Where's the dunks?

LOL @ this racist foo.

[the_wise_one]

:facepalm

That's why the Lakers spanked the Celtics 2-1 head to head in the Finals. Lakers should have won '84 as well:banghead:

Lakers won 5 Finals to 3.(nearly 6-2) Played in 8 NBA Finals to the Celtics 5.

MAGIC = GOAT. Period.

WRONG.
AIDS Boy isn't GOAT. It's all Kareem.

[the_wise_one]

Instead of calling him names, why don't you check him with facts. What he says has some validity.

LOL @ this retarded monkey.

[the_wise_one]

Damn the 80's sucked. I can only wonder how good Dirk would look playing in that era.

The 80's didn't suck, but Dirk would do just fine in the 80s. He's a legend, he can play in any era.

[1987_Lakers]

Instead of calling him names, why don't you check him with facts. What he says has some validity.

lmao, I love how 97 bulls is such a big homer yet he doesn't even realize it. He always argues that the '97 Bulls are the GOAT team, but he feels threatened by the 80's Lakers/Celtics so he has literally called every player from those teams overrated. This is the same guy who said John Paxson outplayed Magic Johnson in the '91 Finals.

[Da_Realist]

Larry Bird vs Chicago 03-27-87 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYuwfb9pqW0)

[TheMiz]

Pretty great player in his time, since it was easy, too soft though. Too bad he was a very boring player to watch.

Probably a good role player in today's game.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Pretty great player in his time, since it was easy, too soft though. Too bad he was a very boring player to watch.

Probably a good role player in today's game.

I'm not sure which part of this post is most insane. Maybe the statement that Bird - perhaps the grittiest, most hustling superstar player ever - is "too soft." :oldlol:

[BlueandGold]

Indeed he was quite awesome. As a caucasion (yes I admit it) I would have to say I'm relieved we have him because if not we wouldn't have anybody near the GOAT type range. (West/Goodrich/Mikan are good but lets not kid ourselves)

[Dro]

Pretty great player in his time, since it was easy, too soft though. Too bad he was a very boring player to watch.

Probably a good role player in today's game.
Pretty sure thats sarcasm....it has to be:roll:

[Solid Snake]

I don't see why anybody would pick Magic over Bird to be honest. Shit, Bird had just as good court awareness, IQ, and 80% of Magic's passing ability. And his scoring ability makes Magic look stupid.

Why would you pick Magic over Bird unless your current point guard was 100% horrible. With Bird you get the total package, with slightly less passing ability, but it's still damn high.

[Mirjalovic]

Pretty great player in his time, since it was easy, too soft though. Too bad he was a very boring player to watch.

Probably a good role player in today's game.

Ammo, is that you ?