Bill "no muscle" Russell

[OutOfPlace]

Dude wouldn't do **** against contemporary NBA athletes. He was what, 6'8, 220? That's barely SF size in today's league. :roll:

He'd get merked by the beast C's of the modern game. Agree?

[OutOfPlace]

Instead of posting random, off topic nonsense, why don't you actually contribute to the topic at hand?

Bill Russell played in a weak era against weak competition. He had NO skills that would elevate him above the level of Marcus Camby. Jumpshot? No. Post game? No. Ball handling skills? No. Court vision? No.

Tell me what makes this guy anything more than a skinny clone of Big Ben.

[gotbacon23]

Instead of posting random, off topic nonsense, why don't you actually contribute to the topic at hand?

Bill Russell played in a weak era against weak competition. He had NO skills that would elevate him above the level of Marcus Camby. Jumpshot? No. Post game? No. Ball handling skills? No. Court vision? No.

Tell me what makes this guy anything more than a skinny clone of Big Ben.

How many times have you seen bill russell play to make these assertions about his skill level?

[OutOfPlace]

How many times have you seen bill russell play to make these assertions about his skill level?

I own season footage. My conclusion from many hours of intensive studying of that footage? "No Skill" Bill would be warming a bench today. A bench somewhere in Europe.

[Cookie Monster]

I own season footage. My conclusion from many hours of intensive studying of that footage? "No Skill" Bill would be warming a bench today. A bench somewhere in Europe.


Does it matter if he could play today? No of course not. Thats like me saying a sword is absolutely useless today because we have guns.... duh!

The man won an incredible amount of titles and worked his ase off to become a great winner and one of the first well known black basketball players. Have some respect.

[2LeTTeRS]

I own season footage. My conclusion from many hours of intensive studying of that footage? "No Skill" Bill would be warming a bench today. A bench somewhere in Europe.

Wait first he would be Ben Wallace level, and now he woudl be on a bench in Europe? Wow. How ignorant can you get?

And too bad recent history pisses on you're assumptions. Russell is actually a little bigger than Dennis Rodman who in his prime just 10 years back while being a lockdown defender and great rebounder with no offensive skills and not having Russell's ability to block shots and was nearly an all-star, won a few DPOYs and multiple rebounding titles. Seeing that Rusell coudl do all that while being a better scorer and passer than Rodman I see no way to think he wouldn't put up 10-15 points (depending on the team) with 15-18 rebounds and 4-5 assists, while playing by far the best defense in the league. He would probably have to make a switch over from the center position to the 4, but he'd be fine.

[OutOfPlace]

^

The embarassing thing is that Camby actually shoots 45% in a stronger era, while being similar in shot blocking, rebounding, defense and passing. And he's not even a top 10 C.

[Cookie Monster]

In other words, you can't debate so you're trying to make it a **** slinging contest instead? :confusedshrug:

Im fine debating actually I would prefer it that way. Its hard to debate when someone offers an argument with no real evidence and seems to refuse to respect one of the greatest sportsman ever - in his era.

[Lebron23]

Individually i think Prime Karl Malone is a much better player than Bill Russell, and if he actually played in the 60's i think he is capable of winning 10 or more NBA Championships because he is the 2nd greatest scorer in the history of the NBA, decent rebounder, and a very underrated defender.

Russell's team was composed of several NBA All Stars, and their are also a few NBA Teams during that time. ( Max of 14 or 16 teams)

[Sir Charles]

Wait first he would be Ben Wallace level, and now he woudl be on a bench in Europe? Wow. How ignorant can you get?

And too bad recent history pisses on you're assumptions. Russell is actually a little bigger than Dennis Rodman who in his prime just 10 years back while being a lockdown defender and great rebounder with no offensive skills and not having Russell's ability to block shots and was nearly an all-star, won a few DPOYs and multiple rebounding titles. Seeing that Rusell coudl do all that while being a better scorer and passer than Rodman I see no way to think he wouldn't put up 10-15 points (depending on the team) with 15-18 rebounds and 4-5 assists, while playing by far the best defense in the league. He would probably have to make a switch over from the center position to the 4, but he'd be fine.

HaHaHa :banghead: :applause:

Bill is a Top 10-12 Center of All Time (NOT A TOP 5!!!). The Innovator of Defensive Schemes and One of The Greatest Frontline Defender of All Time with Hakeem. Also a Great Rebounder and Good Passer but ofcourse he was not a Great Offensive Player. He was ala Rodman with a Better Court Vision and Game Notion.

[RainierBeachPoet]

i never saw bill russell play

but if i am to imagine, he would be a more intense, more muscular and overall better player tayshaun prince

i dont think that anyone would claim that tayshaun gets owned by many guys in todays game-- and he is a pretty skinny guy

all the more for russ

[RIMMER]

He's got more rings than he has fingers

[Showtime]

Dude wouldn't do **** against contemporary NBA athletes. He was what, 6'8, 220? That's barely SF size in today's league. :roll:

He'd get merked by the beast C's of the modern game. Agree?
First off: IF BILL RUSSELL WOULD GET "MERKED" BY MODERN CENTERS, IT WOULDN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT'S A MOOT POINT.

You don't judge players against another 40 years removed because of the progression of the game, and the sport lifestyle. The only accurate judge is how they did against their peers, because only those guys played during the same time in the same game with the same rules and climate. Anybody who actually thinks that Bill is overrated because of some hypothetical matchup is too stupid to have his opinion be worth anything.

I honestly think people like you are too dumb to be a fan of any sport. You don't deserve to be a fan of basketball.

[VCMVP1551]

First of all Russell wasn't 220 for most of his career. I'm sure that's what he weighed coming out of college and it was never updated like many weights.

Second of all Russell was pretty much a legit 6-10 which would be like 6-11 today considering how off many listings are.

Third of all Russell was a great athlete. Just check out the play where Jerry West appears to have an easy lay up and Bill Russell catches up to him and blocks the shot.

And then factor in Russell's excellent basketball IQ. He was the best there ever was at blocking a shot, keeping it in play and starting a fastbreak. Despite a limited offensive game he was also a strong passer.

Russell was easily as bulky if not more so than Marcus Camby
He was about 3 inches taller than Ben Wallace
He was the same height as Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire

Then consider the fact that I've heard his wingspan was about 7'4" and from everything I've heard he always gave 100% on the court.

There is NO reason to think Russell couldn't be successful in the league today.

[steve]

he's from a weak measure era
Those tape measures can't...errr...measure up...to today's standards.

[insidehoops]

Russell certainly wouldn't dominate now like he did then, but a valid question is exactly how good he'd be in today's game.

But, that's a separate discussion from the fact that he's a legendary, groundbreaking, ultimate winner of winners from when he played.

[stephanieg]

Yeah Russell would be in trouble in today's league. Just like this guy:


http://cache.nba.com/media/history/bird_350.jpg



Look at him! A white, unathletic stiff who can barely dribble but he was supposed to be one of the best players of his era. Is that a joke? If he played today he'd get his weak attempt blocked every time, right? :roll:

[LJJ]

Another example.

http://www.checkoutmycards.com/CardImages/Cards/007/110/07F.jpg

This skinny mofo would get his ass snapped in two if he had to play in this era against athletic powerhouses like Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

[bigkingsfan]

"No Muscle" was his middle name? Why would his parents go through with that?

[momo]

Look, ISH already has plenty of posters who are much better at bashing 60's greats. You are just making them look bad and they don't need the help.

http://www.moronsalt.com/moronsalt.jpg

[loot]

Those tape measures can't...errr...measure up...to today's standards.
why was my post deleted?!

[Lebron23]

Russell certainly wouldn't dominate now like he did then, but a valid question is exactly how good he'd be in today's game.

But, that's a separate discussion from the fact that he's a legendary, groundbreaking, ultimate winner of winners from when he played.

I agree with Mr. Jeff Lenchiner. I think Billl Russell would be putting up Prime Ben Wallace numbers in today's NBA.

[warriorfan]

:applause:

[Dr Hawk]

What is the definition of a winner? Someone who plays better when the deciding moment has come?

[kurple]

Russell certainly wouldn't dominate now like he did then, but a valid question is exactly how good he'd be in today's game.

But, that's a separate discussion from the fact that he's a legendary, groundbreaking, ultimate winner of winners from when he played.
your opinion is worthless

[Pushxx]

Bill Russell would be an absolute monster. Russell was a basketball savant and pioneer. He'd be a mix of Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, and Nerlens Noel.

He'd be all over the court. 4+ BPG and 2+ SPG. Would definitely win DPOYs and be a perennial MVP candidate.

No muscle? He was incredibly strong and an all-world athlete.

[LAZERUSS]

Russell wouldn't be great in an era when a 6-7 3/4" Kevin Love ran away with a rebounding title a few years ago, and averaged a 26-12 just last season?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[julizaver]

Put 21-22 years old Russell under modern conditions and in two years he will looks fittier than Durant, Garnet ...
And he was better athlete than both - quicker, faster, better leaper. He did not dominate with power and strength as he had other basketball qualities.

And a photo of Bill "no muscle" Russell jumping:

http://blog.sfgate.com/thebigevent/files/2015/03/mathis-2.jpg

And Bill Russell in his last season vs Wilt - I think that Russell had "some muscles" at all ...
http://www.artofthestars.com/cache/981614d83b1626f4ac813c4fcdf124c1_w540.jpg

[Wally450]

Looking at when this thread started, I knew it would be LeBron23 to bump this thread. How do you find a thread from 2008?

[ButterFace]

Dude wouldn't do **** against contemporary NBA athletes. He was what, 6'8, 220? That's barely SF size in today's league. :roll:

He'd get merked by the beast C's of the modern game. Agree?

nope.

[sd3035]

That twig would get snapped in half by today's athletes

What's interesting is how such a scrawny wimp was able to dominate and outmuscle Wilt the fraud so easily

[DonDadda59]

Indeed. This is the sort of athletic freak that makes the all NBA first team as a center today:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Joakim+Noah+Brooklyn+Nets+v+Chicago+Bulls+4xmyNVo_ KsVl.jpg

Human evolution. Science. :bowdown:

[Psileas]

First of all Russell wasn't 220 for most of his career. I'm sure that's what he weighed coming out of college and it was never updated like many weights.

Second of all Russell was pretty much a legit 6-10 which would be like 6-11 today considering how off many listings are.

Third of all Russell was a great athlete. Just check out the play where Jerry West appears to have an easy lay up and Bill Russell catches up to him and blocks the shot.

And then factor in Russell's excellent basketball IQ. He was the best there ever was at blocking a shot, keeping it in play and starting a fastbreak. Despite a limited offensive game he was also a strong passer.

Russell was easily as bulky if not more so than Marcus Camby
He was about 3 inches taller than Ben Wallace
He was the same height as Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire

Then consider the fact that I've heard his wingspan was about 7'4" and from everything I've heard he always gave 100% on the court.

There is NO reason to think Russell couldn't be successful in the league today.

There lied the answer and there died another troll thread.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

First of all Russell wasn't 220 for most of his career. I'm sure that's what he weighed coming out of college and it was never updated like many weights.

Second of all Russell was pretty much a legit 6-10 which would be like 6-11 today considering how off many listings are.

Third of all Russell was a great athlete. Just check out the play where Jerry West appears to have an easy lay up and Bill Russell catches up to him and blocks the shot.

And then factor in Russell's excellent basketball IQ. He was the best there ever was at blocking a shot, keeping it in play and starting a fastbreak. Despite a limited offensive game he was also a strong passer.

Russell was easily as bulky if not more so than Marcus Camby
He was about 3 inches taller than Ben Wallace
He was the same height as Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire

Then consider the fact that I've heard his wingspan was about 7'4" and from everything I've heard he always gave 100% on the court.

There is NO reason to think Russell couldn't be successful in the league today.

:cheers:

[LosBulls]

Indeed. This is the sort of athletic freak that makes the all NBA first team as a center today:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Joakim+Noah+Brooklyn+Nets+v+Chicago+Bulls+4xmyNVo_ KsVl.jpg

Human evolution. Science. :bowdown:
You do realize that Joakim Noah is 4 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than Bill Russell?

Also i love how you come at Joakim Noah's athletic ability, I bet you've never even seen Joakim play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BkOW7OllBE

Let's forget how great a rebounder and passer he is though :coleman:

[CavaliersFTW]

You do realize that Joakim Noah is 4 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than Bill Russell?

Also i love how you come at Joakim Noah's athletic ability, I bet you've never even seen Joakim play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BkOW7OllBE

Let's forget how great a rebounder and passer he is though :coleman:
Joakim Noah: entering the league:
6-10.5" without shoes
7-1.25" armspan
223lbs drafted -232lbs currently listed (he's likely heavier now to be honest) - does lift weights
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joakim-Noah-589/
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201149/


Bill Russell:
6-9.63" without shoes
7-4" armspan
215lbs drafted, 225-230lbs majority of career -240lbs max playing weight range, never lifted weights

Russell is less than 3/4 of an inch shorter, has more than a 2 and 3/4 inch reach advantage over Noah, and without lifting weights still filled out extremely well. Oh and one other major difference is their athleticism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AlFrOj5Mc

Russell is physically superior to Noah. Not the other way around.

[Im Still Ballin]

Joakim Noah: entering the league:
6-10.5" without shoes
7-1.25" armspan
223lbs drafted -232lbs currently listed (he's likely heavier now to be honest) - does lift weights
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joakim-Noah-589/
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201149/


Bill Russell:
6-9.63" without shoes
7-4" armspan
215lbs drafted, 225-230lbs majority of career -240lbs max playing weight range, never lifted weights

Russell is less than 3/4 of an inch shorter, has more than a 2 and 3/4 inch reach advantage over Noah, and without lifting weights still filled out extremely well. Oh and one other major difference is their athleticism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AlFrOj5Mc

Russell is physically superior to Noah. Not the other way around.
Incorrect,

During the 67' season Bill mentioned in an interview that he started to lift some weights... I'll get the article reference up here in a second

[CavaliersFTW]

Anthony Davis
6-9.25 without shoes
7-5.5" armspan
222lbs drafted

David Robinson in 1988 Olympics:
7-0 without shoes
226lbs

Kevin Garnett
6-11 without shoes
217lbs drafted

Tyson Chandler
6-11.5 without shoes
7-3" armspan
224lbs drafted

Nerlens Noel
6-10 without shoes
7-3.75" armspan
206lbs drafted

Joakim Noah
6-10.5 without shoes
7-1.25" armspan
223lbs drafted

Bill Russell
6-9.63 without shoes
7-4 armspan
drafted at 215lbs, 225-230 majority of career (without weight training), 240lbs max


He's the same size as any great center should be expected to be.

[CavaliersFTW]

Incorrect,

During the 67' season Bill mentioned in an interview that he started to lift some weights... I'll get the article reference up here in a second
Please do.

If so, that would coincide with when he jumped from 230-240lbs. Which I figured he got fat since '67 was so late in his career (he only had 3 seasons left) but maybe he put on muscle because the rest of his career was basically played a steady 220-230 range - without lifting weights. The same weight range mind you, as many great and athletic bigs come into the league before they have a chance to add mass in the gym.

Which is my point.

Bill Russell is a big, decent sized center. He's not undersized in either height or weight, and especially not length by any stretch of the imagination.

[jstern]

The two eras are very far away and removed, but the guy was a winner, and had the mentality of a winner. And to me, when it comes to eras, that's the one thing you can definitely compare. A competitive person/winner can be put in any era and they will make the necessary adjustments to dominate.

I don't know much about the Centers back then, other than he did slowed down Wilt the most, and Wilt was like an equal of Kareem Abdul Jabbar, who at an old age played up to par with Olajuwon, who is top ten and matched up with Shaq.

They had like six teams back then, so he was going up against great centers every other day.

[Height Freak]

Anthony Davis
6-9.25 without shoes
7-5.5" armspan
222lbs drafted

David Robinson in 1988 Olympics:
7-0 without shoes
226lbs

Kevin Garnett
6-11 without shoes
217lbs drafted

Tyson Chandler
6-11.5 without shoes
7-3" armspan
224lbs drafted

Nerlens Noel
6-10 without shoes
7-3.75" armspan
206lbs drafted

Joakim Noah
6-10.5 without shoes
7-1.25" armspan
223lbs drafted

Bill Russell
6-9.63 without shoes
7-4 armspan
drafted at 215lbs, 225-230 majority of career (without weight training), 240lbs max


He's the same size as any great center should be expected to be.

You forgot about 6'9" Demarcus Cousins, but agree, he would fare up to all these centers (forwards).

[CavaliersFTW]

You forgot about 6'9" Demarcus Cousins, but agree, he would fare up to all these centers (forwards).
I was trying to show players with his similarly thin build. Demarcus is naturally a hefty wide-bodied center. Which Russell matched up against plenty of times as well (Wayne Embry for example, 270lbs, 6-8 without shoes but also with a 7-4 armspan and giant hands, Wilt of course 7-1 without shoes, 7-8 armspan, 260-310lbs)

Heck in Wilt, Russell faced a far more physically superior opponent than anyone in the league these past few seasons is facing.

[Im Still Ballin]

Demarcus is far more skilled than most 60's centers

[DonDadda59]

You do realize that Joakim Noah is 4 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than Bill Russell?

Also i love how you come at Joakim Noah's athletic ability, I bet you've never even seen Joakim play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BkOW7OllBE

Let's forget how great a rebounder and passer he is though :coleman:

In every other era besides this one, Joakim Noah is a very good back up center. Today, hes a first team all NBAer. :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

In every other era besides this one, Joakim Noah is a very good back up center. Today, hes a first team all NBAer. :oldlol:
Don't forget DPOY

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/basketball/_photos/wilt-chamberlain-gallery/wilt12pg-horizontal.jpg

[Marchesk]

Demarcus is far more skilled than most 60's centers

How would the Kings fair with Cousy and Cousins?

[Im Still Ballin]

How would the Kings fair with Cousy and Cousins?
Contenders

It'd be like Stockton and Malone before them

[DonDadda59]

Kevin 'No Muscle' Durant is sitting on 4 scoring championships and counting.

http://sports-kings.com/passthepill/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Kevin-Durant-_.jpg


According to the Times, Durant was the only prospect at camp who failed to bench press 185 pounds, and finished behind Oden in some key drills, including the vertical leap, agility drill and three-quarter court sprint.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2894925

His teammate Russell 'Empty Stats' Westbrook is keeping the trophy warm for him.

[jlip]

While this thread is several years old, it is amazing that people yet use bballref.com as a credible source for player heights and weights.

[LAZERUSS]

That explains Rodman just crushing his smaller, weaker, and less athletic peers on the glass...guys like Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, and Shaq.

[Millennium X]

the knicks are the most garbage franchise in the league regardless of the era. that much u know for sure

[Dro]

First off: IF BILL RUSSELL WOULD GET "MERKED" BY MODERN CENTERS, IT WOULDN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT'S A MOOT POINT.

You don't judge players against another 40 years removed because of the progression of the game, and the sport lifestyle. The only accurate judge is how they did against their peers, because only those guys played during the same time in the same game with the same rules and climate. Anybody who actually thinks that Bill is overrated because of some hypothetical matchup is too stupid to have his opinion be worth anything.

I honestly think people like you are too dumb to be a fan of any sport. You don't deserve to be a fan of basketball.
Exactly, even an idiot should know this...Threads like this are so fukin stupid and even dumber when the OP is criticizing everyone else when he's the one who made a completely, retarded point in the first place...If he has a point....Kids these days can't wait to disrespect history, completely ignoring context....

[warriorfan]

Kevin 'No Muscle' Durant is sitting on 4 scoring championships and counting.

http://sports-kings.com/passthepill/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Kevin-Durant-_.jpg


According to the Times, Durant was the only prospect at camp who failed to bench press 185 pounds, and finished behind Oden in some key drills, including the vertical leap, agility drill and three-quarter court sprint.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2894925

His teammate Russell 'Empty Stats' Westbrook is keeping the trophy warm for him.

:applause: :oldlol: :applause:

[julizaver]

Bill Russell:
6-9.63" without shoes
7-4" armspan
215lbs drafted, 225-230lbs majority of career -240lbs max playing weight range, never lifted weights

Russell is less than 3/4 of an inch shorter, has more than a 2 and 3/4 inch reach advantage over Noah, and without lifting weights still filled out extremely well. Oh and one other major difference is their athleticism.

Russell is physically superior to Noah. Not the other way around.

Based on Russell photos I supposed that he lifted some weights/or at least some physical excersizes. He had vissible muscles, which could not be obtained by just playing basketball. Just looked at that picture - his last season:
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/14/141373/2681638-1857800832-Bill-.jpg

The second bolded is more important than just body height, in fact what really matters is what your reach is when extending your arm. I know persons who are the same height as me but has 2 inch higher vertical reach.