1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

[Lebron23]

They almost face each other in the 1997 NBA Finals if not for John Stockton and Karl Malone eliminating the Houston Rockets in the Western Conference Finals.

John Stockton hit a Buzzer Beating 3 pointer in Game 6 as the Jazz advanced in the NBA Finals for the first time in their franchise history.

Do you think that the Rockets Big 3 can beat the Chicago Bulls in the NBA Finals?

I think the Bulls will beat the Rockets in 6 games, and it could have been one of the best NBA Championship in the 1990's if the Bulls and the Rockets battle each other in the NBA Finals.

Houston Rockets ( 57-25)

http://i35.tinypic.com/2db75te.jpg

Charles Barkley

19.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 4.7 rpg, 1.3 spg, 0.5 bpg

Hakeem Olajuwon

23.2 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.5 spg, 2.2 bpg

Clyde Drexler

18.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.6 bpg

Rockets also had Eddie Johnson, and Mario Ellie to provide some scoring off the bench, and their starting Center was Kevin Willis.


Chicago Bulls (69-13)

http://i35.tinypic.com/2dvsjud.jpg

Michael Jordan

29.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.5 bpg

Scottie Pippen

20.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.5 bpg

Dennis Rodman

6.7 ppg, 16.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.5 bpg

Chicago Bulls had Steve Kerr, and Tony Kukoc to provide some scoring off the bench, and their starting Center was Luc Longley.


Regular Season ( Head to Head Matchup)

Chicago Bulls 110, Houston Rockets 86

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199701110CHI.html

Houston Rockets 102, Chicago Bulls 86

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199701190HOU.html


I do a simulation in WIF.com, and here are the results.

Game 1

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 107

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852041&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Hakeem Olajuwon 23 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks, 1 steal, 7/18 FG, 7/7 FT


Game 2

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 97
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 96

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852050&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Charles Barkley 26 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals.


Game 3

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 118
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852157&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 39 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block


Game 3

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 118
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852157&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 39 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block

Game 4

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 114
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 95

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852216&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Hakeem Olajuwon 32 points, 10 rebounds, 3 blocks

Game 5

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 135
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 105

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852241&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 38 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, and 1 steal

Game 6

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 114
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 106

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852256&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: 29 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 blocks,


Rockets defeated the Bulls, 4-2


Finals MVP: Hakeem Olajuwon

http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/1209/photo/g_olajuwon_350.jpg

[Scott Pippen]

Chicago Bulls win in 6 games:applause:

[Sir Charles]

They almost face each other in the 1997 NBA Finals if not for John Stockton and Karl Malone eliminating the Houston Rockets in the Western Conference Finals.

John Stockton hit a Buzzer Beating 3 pointer in Game 6 as the Jazz advanced in the NBA Finals for the first time in their franchise history.

Do you think that the Rockets Big 3 can beat the Chicago Bulls in the NBA Finals?

I think the Bulls will beat the Rockets in 6 games, and it could have been one of the best NBA Championship in the 1990's if the Bulls and the Rockets battle each other in the NBA Finals.

Houston Rockets ( 57-25)

http://i35.tinypic.com/2db75te.jpg

Charles Barkley

19.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 4.7 rpg, 1.3 spg, 0.5 bpg

Hakeem Olajuwon

23.2 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.5 spg, 2.2 bpg

Clyde Drexler

18.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.6 bpg

Rockets also had Eddie Johnson, and Mario Ellie to provide some scoring off the bench, and their starting Center was Kevin Willis.


Chicago Bulls (69-13)

http://i35.tinypic.com/2dvsjud.jpg

Michael Jordan

29.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.5 bpg

Scottie Pippen

20.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.5 bpg

Dennis Rodman

6.7 ppg, 16.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.5 bpg

Chicago Bulls had Steve Kerr, and Tony Kukoc to provide some scoring off the bench, and their starting Center was Luc Longley.


Regular Season ( Head to Head Matchup)

Chicago Bulls 110, Houston Rockets 86

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199701110CHI.html

Houston Rockets 102, Chicago Bulls 86

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199701190HOU.html


I do a simulation in WIF.com, and here are the results.

Game 1

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 107

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852041&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Hakeem Olajuwon 23 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks, 1 steal, 7/18 FG, 7/7 FT


Game 2

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 97
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 96

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852050&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Charles Barkley 26 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals.


Game 3

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 118
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852157&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 39 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block


Game 3

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 118
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852157&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 39 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block

Game 4

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 114
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 95

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852216&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Hakeem Olajuwon 32 points, 10 rebounds, 3 blocks

Game 5

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 135
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 105

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852241&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 38 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, and 1 steal

Game 6

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 114
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 106

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852256&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: 29 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 blocks,


Rockets defeated the Bulls, 4-2


Finals MVP: Hakeem Olajuwon

http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/1209/photo/g_olajuwon_350.jpg

It would have been Great :applause: but even Greater if Charles had just Hakeem in his Prime 1985 to 1995 and even more before his back injuries of 1994 :)

Although Scottie, Jordan and Rodman where in Great Physical Conditions Still not to mention Kukoc:bowdown:

[Se]

It would have been Great :applause: but even Greater if Charles had just Hakeem in his Prime 1985 to 1995 and even more before his back injuries of 1994 :)

Although Scottie, Jordan and Rodman where in Great Physical Conditions Still not to mention Kukoc:bowdown:


Don't quote the whole post you f*cking retard

[VCMVP1551]

Man that would have been a great series.

On a side note Jordan was close to facing Drexler several times in the Finals

In 1990 the Blazers made the finals but the Bulls lost in game 7 of the ECF
In 1991 the Bulls made the finals but the Blazers lost in the WCF
In 1992 the Bulls beat the Blazers in the finals
In 1995 the Rockets advanced to the finals but the Bulls lost in the ECF
In 1997 the Bulls made it to the finals again but the Rockets lost in the WCF


The hype for that series would have been incredible. Barkley and Drexler both getting a rematch vs Jordan in the finals and the long anticipated Bulls vs Rockets series.

[Sir Charles]

Man that would have been a great series.

On a side note Jordan was close to facing Drexler several times in the Finals

In 1990 the Blazers made the finals but the Bulls lost in game 7 of the ECF
In 1991 the Bulls made the finals but the Blazers lost in the WCF
In 1992 the Bulls beat the Blazers in the finals
In 1995 the Rockets advanced to the finals but the Bulls lost in the ECF
In 1997 the Bulls made it to the finals again but the Rockets lost in the WCF


The hype for that series would have been incredible. Barkley and Drexler both getting a rematch vs Jordan in the finals and the long anticipated Bulls vs Rockets series.


Should say it Barkley and Drexler both Getting a Rea Match on Jordan and PIPPEN in the Finals :applause: :)

[VCMVP1551]

Should say it Barkley and Drexler both Getting a Rea Match on Jordan and PIPPEN in the Finals :applause: :)

Yeah but the matchup between Pippen and Drexler/Barkley was never really hyped. The NBA always tried to hype up a rivalry between Jordan and guys like Barkley and Drexler.

[Se]

They almost face each other in the 1997 NBA Finals if not for John Stockton and Karl Malone eliminating the Houston Rockets in the Western Conference Finals.

John Stockton hit a Buzzer Beating 3 pointer in Game 6 as the Jazz advanced in the NBA Finals for the first time in their franchise history.

Do you think that the Rockets Big 3 can beat the Chicago Bulls in the NBA Finals?

I think the Bulls will beat the Rockets in 6 games, and it could have been one of the best NBA Championship in the 1990's if the Bulls and the Rockets battle each other in the NBA Finals.

Houston Rockets ( 57-25)

http://i35.tinypic.com/2db75te.jpg

Charles Barkley

19.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 4.7 rpg, 1.3 spg, 0.5 bpg

Hakeem Olajuwon

23.2 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.5 spg, 2.2 bpg

Clyde Drexler

18.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.6 bpg

Rockets also had Eddie Johnson, and Mario Ellie to provide some scoring off the bench, and their starting Center was Kevin Willis.


Chicago Bulls (69-13)

http://i35.tinypic.com/2dvsjud.jpg

Michael Jordan

29.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.5 bpg

Scottie Pippen

20.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.5 bpg

Dennis Rodman

6.7 ppg, 16.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.5 bpg

Chicago Bulls had Steve Kerr, and Tony Kukoc to provide some scoring off the bench, and their starting Center was Luc Longley.


Regular Season ( Head to Head Matchup)

Chicago Bulls 110, Houston Rockets 86

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199701110CHI.html

Houston Rockets 102, Chicago Bulls 86

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199701190HOU.html


I do a simulation in WIF.com, and here are the results.

Game 1

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 107

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852041&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Hakeem Olajuwon 23 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks, 1 steal, 7/18 FG, 7/7 FT


Game 2

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 97
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 96

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852050&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Charles Barkley 26 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals.


Game 3

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 118
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852157&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 39 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block


Game 3

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 118
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852157&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 39 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block

Game 4

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 114
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 95

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852216&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Hakeem Olajuwon 32 points, 10 rebounds, 3 blocks

Game 5

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 135
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 105

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852241&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 38 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, and 1 steal

Game 6

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 114
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 106

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852256&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: 29 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 blocks,


Rockets defeated the Bulls, 4-2


Finals MVP: Hakeem Olajuwon

http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/1209/photo/g_olajuwon_350.jpg

Whoops, did I quote the whole thing?

[Lebron23]

Yeah but the matchup between Pippen and Drexler/Barkley was never really hyped. The NBA always tried to hype up a rivalry between Jordan and guys like Barkley and Drexler.


I think this is a good matchup because both teams were evenly matchup in the regular season, and the Trio of Hakeem, Barkley, and Drexler are just starting to jell in the playoffs, but the Utah Jazz played better in the Western Conference Finals, and the Rockets couldn't find an answer in defending the pick and roll movement of Malone and Stockton.

[Loki]

LOL @ Sir Charles always talking up Pippen like Jordan was playing with prime Larry Bird out there. :oldlol:

[VCMVP1551]

I think this is a good matchup because both teams were evenly matchup in the regular season, and the Trio of Hakeem, Barkley, and Drexler are just starting to jell in the playoffs, but the Utah Jazz played better in the Western Conference Finals, and the Rockets couldn't find an answer in defending the pick and roll movement of Malone and Stockton.

Another cool matchup would be the 1997 Rockets vs the 2008 Celtics.

Big 3 vs Big 3


LOL @ Sir Charles always talking up Pippen like Jordan was playing with prime Larry Bird out there. :oldlol:

Sir Charles and Scott Pippen are the same poster.

[Loki]

Sir Charles and Scott Pippen are the same poster.

I don't think so. Despite his Pippen love, Scott Pippen consistently praises Jordan. Sir Charles, however, consistently downplays Jordan and plays up Pippen etc., acting like Jordan is only who he is because of his teammates. :oldlol:

[Se]

They almost face each other in the 1997 NBA Finals if not for John Stockton and Karl Malone eliminating the Houston Rockets in the Western Conference Finals.

John Stockton hit a Buzzer Beating 3 pointer in Game 6 as the Jazz advanced in the NBA Finals for the first time in their franchise history.

Do you think that the Rockets Big 3 can beat the Chicago Bulls in the NBA Finals?

I think the Bulls will beat the Rockets in 6 games, and it could have been one of the best NBA Championship in the 1990's if the Bulls and the Rockets battle each other in the NBA Finals.

Houston Rockets ( 57-25)

http://i35.tinypic.com/2db75te.jpg

Charles Barkley

19.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 4.7 rpg, 1.3 spg, 0.5 bpg

Hakeem Olajuwon

23.2 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.5 spg, 2.2 bpg

Clyde Drexler

18.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.6 bpg

Rockets also had Eddie Johnson, and Mario Ellie to provide some scoring off the bench, and their starting Center was Kevin Willis.


Chicago Bulls (69-13)

http://i35.tinypic.com/2dvsjud.jpg

Michael Jordan

29.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.5 bpg

Scottie Pippen

20.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.5 bpg

Dennis Rodman

6.7 ppg, 16.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.5 bpg

Chicago Bulls had Steve Kerr, and Tony Kukoc to provide some scoring off the bench, and their starting Center was Luc Longley.


Regular Season ( Head to Head Matchup)

Chicago Bulls 110, Houston Rockets 86

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199701110CHI.html

Houston Rockets 102, Chicago Bulls 86

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199701190HOU.html


I do a simulation in WIF.com, and here are the results.

Game 1

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 107

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852041&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Hakeem Olajuwon 23 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks, 1 steal, 7/18 FG, 7/7 FT


Game 2

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 97
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 96

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852050&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Charles Barkley 26 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals.


Game 3

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 118
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852157&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 39 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block


Game 3

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 118
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 110

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852157&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 39 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block

Game 4

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 114
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 95

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852216&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Hakeem Olajuwon 32 points, 10 rebounds, 3 blocks

Game 5

Houston Rockets (Home) vs. Chicago Bulls (Away)


1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 135
1996-97 Houston Rockets - 105

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852241&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: Michael Jordan 38 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, and 1 steal

Game 6

Chicago Bulls (Home) vs. Houston Rockets (Away)


1996-97 Houston Rockets - 114
1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 106

Boxscore (http://www.whatifsports.com/NBA/boxscore.asp?GameID=852256&nomenu=1&teamfee=-1)

Best Player of the Game: 29 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 blocks,


Rockets defeated the Bulls, 4-2


Finals MVP: Hakeem Olajuwon

http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/1209/photo/g_olajuwon_350.jpg

What's wrong with my reply button?

[Loki]

[QUOTE=Se

[Sir Charles]

LOL @ Sir Charles always talking up Pippen like Jordan was playing with prime Larry Bird out there. :oldlol:

Not on Larry Birds level but better to what Drexler ever had until 1995 and to what Barkley had from 1986-87 on (including 36 year old DJ, who was a shadow of his 1984 an under performances) to 1996-97 and Pipp is closer to Bird than most of todays NBA Players by far.

Greatest Defending SF Ever
Could Guard Fast PGs, SGs, SFs and Some PFs
Greatest Perimeter Defender Ever
A 20 PPG, 6 ASPG, 7-8 RPG, 2.5-3 SPG 1.5 BPG Player if Playing on Weaker Teams in his 20s for Most of his Career on Himself as the Focal Scorer and Leader
PG Vision ala Magic-Bird, but quicker, more athletic and a better driver to the basket than Bird in the 1 on 1.

Go Watch Bulls games the 1993-94 Season and see for yourself...:confusedshrug: :hammerhead:

[Se]

:oldlol:

Save that laughter for yourself nutjob:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89093&page=20

[Loki]

[QUOTE=Se

[Loki]

Not on Larry Birds level but better to what Drexler ever had until 1995 and to what Barkley had from 1986-87 on (including 36 year old DJ, who was a shadow of his 1984 an under performances) to 1996-97 and Pipp is closer to Bird than most of todays NBA Players by far.

Greatest Defending SF Ever
Could Guard Fast PGs, SGs, SFs and Some PFs
Greatest Perimeter Defender Ever
A 20 PPG, 6 ASPG, 7-8 RPG, 2.5-3 SPG 1.5 BPG Player if Playing on Weaker Teams in his 20s for Most of his Career on Himself as the Focal Scorer and Leader
PG Vision ala Magic-Bird, but quicker, more athletic and a better driver to the basket than Bird in the 1 on 1.

Go Watch Bulls games the 1993-94 Season and see for yourself...:confusedshrug: :hammerhead:

1.5 bpg? Okay. :oldlol:

Where do you get the idea that Pippen had Magic/Bird like vision? He didn't even have better vision than Jordan, and Jordan didn't have Magic/Bird like vision.

You see some mega-player, and I see a guy whose jumper disappeared all too frequently late in games. I see a guy who shot like 40% and whose numbers decreased all-around during the '96-'98 playoffs. Great player, but let's be realistic.

[Scott Pippen]

Sir Charles and Scott Pippen are the same poster.

disagree:no:

i think jordan is best to ever play, sir charles does not:applause:

[Se]

:oldlol:

Funny stuff. I didn't even see that topic somehow. I'm much better looking than your depiction of me, though. :pimp: :D

But I had the general idea correct.

[Sir Charles]

1.5 bpg? Okay. :oldlol:

Where do you get the idea that Pippen had Magic/Bird like vision? He didn't even have better vision than Jordan, and Jordan didn't have Magic/Bird like vision.

You see some mega-player, and I see a guy whose jumper disappeared all too frequently late in games. I see a guy who shot like 40% and whose numbers decreased all-around during the '96-'98 playoffs. Great player, but let's be realistic.

Overrated on the block thing yes but around 1 BPG he could and with ease was a 20 PPG, 8 RPG, 5-6 ASPG, 3 SPG man...Yes he had better court vision than Jordan, Jordand never could make his Teamates better through passing to Pippen it was natural because he had once been a PG (it wasn`t till Pippen took the Creator Job as the Point-Forward *They WAY HE LIKED TO PLAY, NOT SOMEONE ELSES WAY* that the Bulls began to win and in 1991 Pippen was the Man that played MOST MINUTES, the KEY to the Bulls Winning).

Also Pippen was faster than Magic and Bird (not to mention better 1 to 1 Defender BY FAR!) and had as good 1 on 1 game driving to the basket as Magic. He was obviously not a better shooter than both of them but could score 20 PPG in his style: athletically-driving to the basket and dunking.

Just go look at his games in the 93-94 season (Do It and Stop trying to underrate Pippen) which i watched them all and was happy to see Pippen demostrate his Real Greatness (thankfully for that year people stopped sucking on Jordan`s Balls, which I knew they would obviously forget do to the media still sucking Jordan`s balls) and see how Pippen could lead his Team IN EVERYTHING to 55 Wins, Game 7 Against the Knicks ESF(Team that Took Hakeems Rockets to Game 7) :applause:

[TmacsRockets]

If we couldn't beat the Jazz we sure as hell couldn't beat the Bulls.

[Raj Da Dodge]

Man you had to remind me of that moment? Thats the reason I hated Stockton and Malone, that was the worst moment for Rockets fans :cry:

[Sir Charles]

Man you had to remind me of that moment? Thats the reason I hated Stockton and Malone, that was the worst moment for Rockets fans :cry:

I was happy for Stockton and Malone but more for Stockton because he was the Real MVP and the Clutch Player of his Team for years. Ofcourse if it was a 1) a healthy Barkley and 2) A Prime Barkley...he would have destroyed the Jazz on his own...:cheers:

[Loki]

[B]Overrated on the block thing yes but around 1 BPG he could and with ease was a 20 PPG, 8 RPG, 5-6 ASPG, 3 SPG man...Yes he had better court vision than Jordan, Jordand never could make his Teamates better through passing to Pippen it was natural because he had once been a PG (it wasn`t till Pippen took the Creator Job as the Point-Forward *They WAY HE LIKED TO PLAY, NOT SOMEONE ELSES WAY* that the Bulls began to win and in 1991 Pippen was the Man that played MOST MINUTES, the KEY to the Bulls Winning).

You have no idea what you're talking about. Enjoy your ignorance.

[Sir Charles]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Enjoy your ignorance.

Go watch the 1993-94 Season. Period..:confusedshrug:

[RoseCity07]

A team with Jordan NEVER loses. What ever combination a 3 players with Jordan on it will win.

[Sir Charles]

A team with Jordan NEVER loses. What ever combination a 3 players with Jordan on it will win.

1984-1990, 1994-95 :violin:

[97 bulls]

loki underrates any player on the bulls not named jordan. because for some strange reason he thinks it will hurt jordans legacy.

[Loki]

and in 1991 Pippen was the Man that played MOST MINUTES, the KEY to the Bulls Winning).


Yeah, Pippen was the "KEY" to the Bulls winning in 1991. Not the guy who posted 32/6/6/3/1/54% FG in 37 mpg during the regular season and 31.1/6.4/8.4/2.4 stl/1.4 blk/52.4% during the playoffs.

You're a joke, Sir Charles.

[Loki]

loki underrates any player on the bulls not named jordan. because for some strange reason he thinks it will hurt jordans legacy.

I dont underrate anyone. Calling Pippen the "KEY" (in caps, no less) to the Bulls winning is a joke. Pippen was a great player, but people make like he was some demigod. Go look at how he performed in the '96-'98 playoffs. Go watch how his jumper disappeared in the 4th quarter throughout the years.

[97 bulls]

I dont underrate anyone. Calling Pippen the "KEY" (in caps, no less) to the Bulls winning is a joke. Pippen was a great player, but people make like he was some demigod. Go look at how he performed in the '96-'98 playoffs. Go watch how his jumper disappeared in the 4th quarter throughout the years.
scottie pippens job was to disrupt the other teams offense and in my opinion he was just as good doing that as jordan was scorer. now i do believe jordan could do the same but his energy would have been spent and probably wouldnt have won as much as he did. and pip hit big shots. the game winning dunk against washington in 97 the 4th quarter comeback in 92. to name a few. pip was a team player, if he complained and went to another team i see no reason why he coulnt have had a few seasons averaging 25-26 ppg. but he accepted his role a sacrificed in the name of winning.

[Scott Pippen]

scottie pippens job was to disrupt the other teams offense and in my opinion he was just as good doing that as jordan was scorer. now i do believe jordan could do the same but his energy would have been spent and probably wouldnt have won as much as he did. and pip hit big shots. the game winning dunk against washington in 97 the 4th quarter comeback in 92. to name a few. pip was a team player, if he complained and went to another team i see no reason why he coulnt have had a few seasons averaging 25-26 ppg. but he accepted his role a sacrificed in the name of winning.

agree:applause:

[Lebron23]

agree:applause:

Scottie Pippen = Greatest Sidekick in the history of the NBA. :cheers:

[Scott Pippen]

Scottie Pippen = Greatest Sidekick in the history of the NBA. :cheers:

:applause:

[Collie]

1996-97... the last of Hakeem's great years.

[guy]

scottie pippens job was to disrupt the other teams offense and in my opinion he was just as good doing that as jordan was scorer.

I would disagree. One of Pippen's all-time great defensive jobs was on Magic in the 91 Finals. Magic still had a double-double every game. I think the equivalent to Jordan scoring 30+ points would probably be Pippen making Magic almost a non-factor. And even if Pippen's defense = Jordan's scoring, Jordan was much better at defense then Pippen was at scoring.

And either way, you always take a great scorer over a great defender, at least when your building a team. Nobody in their right mind would take Bruce Bowen over Carmelo Anthony.



now i do believe jordan could do the same but his energy would have been spent and probably wouldnt have won as much as he did.

Jordan rarely, if ever, conserved his energy on defense. Its a common misconception.



and pip hit big shots. the game winning dunk against washington in 97 the 4th quarter comeback in 92. to name a few. pip was a team player, if he complained and went to another team i see no reason why he coulnt have had a few seasons averaging 25-26 ppg. but he accepted his role a sacrificed in the name of winning.

Sure Pippen hit big shots, but he also disappeared alot in big games.

And maybe once or twice he could've averaged that much, but it wouldn't surprise me if he never did. He was never that great of a scorer, and when he did have his chances like 94,95,99, he never scored that much.

I love Pippen but sorry, he is one of the most overrated players ever. When everyone says that Jordan would have no titles if it wasn't for Pippen, he's really overrated. Then you also have people on here saying Pippen is as great as Larry Bird or Kobe Bryant.

[Sir Charles]

Yeah, Pippen was the "KEY" to the Bulls winning in 1991. Not the guy who posted 32/6/6/3/1/54% FG in 37 mpg during the regular season and 31.1/6.4/8.4/2.4 stl/1.4 blk/52.4% during the playoffs.

You're a joke, Sir Charles.

You think so? :hammerhead:

Who Guarded Magic Most Effecitve?:sleeping
WHo Guarded Drexler Most Drexler? :sleeping
Who Guarded The Bigger Guards and the SF Scoring Threats? :sleeping

Who Played Most Minutes for the Bulls in the 1991 Play-Offs?

1991 Play-Offs

Jordan: 40.5 MPG, 31.1 PPG (52.4% FG on 22.11 FGA!), 6.4 RPG, 8.4 AGP, 2.35 SPG

Pippen: 41.4 MPG, 21.6 PPG (50.4% FG on only 16.59 FGA = 5-6 FGA Lesser than Jordan took), 8.9 RPG, 5.8 ASPG , 2.47 SPG

:violin:

[guy]

You think so? :hammerhead:

Who Guarded Most Effecitve Magic?:sleeping
WHo Guarded Most Times Drexler? :sleeping
Who Guarded The Bigger Guards? :sleeping

Who Played Most Minutes for the Bulls in the 1991 Play-Offs?

1991 Play-Offs

Jordan: 40.5 MPG, 31.1 PPG (52.4% FG on 22.11 FGA!), 6.4 RPG, 8.4 AGP, 2.35 SPG

Pippen: 41.4 MPG, 21.6 PPG (50.4% FG on only 16.59 FGA = 6 FGA Lesser), 8.9 RPG, 5.8 ASPG , 2.47 SPG and

:violin:

I'm pretty sure Jordan guarded Drexler most of the time. And are you seriously making that big of a deal out of Pippen playing less then 1 minute more then Jordan?

[ConanRulesNBC]

I wanted to see Hakeem vs. Jordan so bad. I think it would have been a better series in '96 with the Rockets going for their third straight championship against the 72-10 Bulls.

[Sir Charles]

I'm pretty sure Jordan guarded Drexler most of the time. And are you seriously making that big of a deal out of Pippen playing less then 1 minute more then Jordan?

:roll: Evidence definetly pisses Jordan cocck**********ers at a ver y high rate.

Jordan words:

"If i go Back to Basketball It will Only be If Pippen Plays with me"...

(ofcourse if you have the most Complete SF, the Best Passing and Creative SF, the Best Defensive SF of the 1990s with you for all of your life so he *Pippen takes the Load on the Rest and you can go score and take as many FGA as you like...its quite obvious) :confusedshrug:

[guy]

I wanted to see Hakeem vs. Jordan so bad. I think it would have been a better series in '96 with the Rockets going for their third straight championship against the 72-10 Bulls.

Yes, that would've been a great storyline. But in 97 they added Barkley so it would've been even better. If Malone vs. Rodman was as entertaining as it was, imagine Barkley vs. Rodman.

[Sir Charles]

Yes, that would've been a great storyline. But in 97 they added Barkley so it would've been even better. If Malone vs. Rodman was as entertaining as it was, imagine Barkley vs. Rodman.

Barkley was done offensively by 1996. He could hardly run or leap and his back was dead (not to mention his knees) still Rodman was no contest for Barkley, even in that condition. Proof:

Bulls vs Rockets. Jordan 45pts Barkley 35 (Thrash talk game)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jGX_HXlTV-Q

They were both 35 years old (Michael and Charles) but their competitive fire was still young. Besides the great performances, there was lots of thrash talking, fun and mutual respect for one another. The only thing missing were the cracked asphalt and chain nets

The Rockets played without injured stars Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler and then lost guard Mario Elie with 6:54 left in the first half when he strained his left shoulder after colliding under the basket with Scottie Pippen.

But every time it looked like the Bulls would run away, Houston fought back with determined play from Barkley, who made 11-of-14 field goal attempts.

Barkley's intensity and aggressiveness made Dennis Rodman (no points, five rebounds in 35 minutes) ineffective, turning the NBA's leading rebounder into a pussycat with leopard-spotted hair.

"Charles doesn't take any of the mess that Dennis may try to do to other players to get into their minds," Jordan said.

Score Boards/Stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199801180CHI.html

[guy]

:roll: Evidence definetly pisses Jordan cocck**********ers at a ver y high rate.

Jordan words:

"If i go Back to Basketball It will Only be If Pippen Plays with me"...

(ofcourse if you have the most Complete SF, the Best Passing and Creative SF, the Best Defensive SF of the 1990s with you for all of your life so he *Pippen takes the Load on the Rest and you can go score and take as many FGA as you like...its quite obvious) :confusedshrug:

Thats evidence that Pippen guarded Drexler most of the time? What the hell are you talking about? Anyway, so what? He didn't want to come back unless he had a chance to win. Big deal. If you think thats the only way Jordan would've ever won a championship you're delusional. Of course Jordan wanted someone to help him out and take the load off of him. He had been through that in the 80s, and realized he can't win championships by himself.

[Sir Charles]

Thats evidence that Pippen guarded Drexler most of the time? What the hell are you talking about? Anyway, so what? He didn't want to come back unless he had a chance to win. Big deal. If you think thats the only way Jordan would've ever won a championship you're delusional. Of course Jordan wanted someone to help him out and take the load off of him. He had been through that in the 80s, and realized he can't win championships by himself.

Dude i love Jordan too but I am not brainwashed by the Media that constantly overrated in ways not ethical (its not like Jordan needs to be overrated) like most kids of today, thats all...:confusedshrug: :cheers:

[97 bulls]

I would disagree. One of Pippen's all-time great defensive jobs was on Magic in the 91 Finals. Magic still had a double-double every game. I think the equivalent to Jordan scoring 30+ points would probably be Pippen making Magic almost a non-factor. And even if Pippen's defense = Jordan's scoring, Jordan was much better at defense then Pippen was at scoring.

And either way, you always take a great scorer over a great defender, at least when your building a team. Nobody in their right mind would take Bruce Bowen over Carmelo Anthony.



Jordan rarely, if ever, conserved his energy on defense. Its a common misconception.



Sure Pippen hit big shots, but he also disappeared alot in big games.

And maybe once or twice he could've averaged that much, but it wouldn't surprise me if he never did. He was never that great of a scorer, and when he did have his chances like 94,95,99, he never scored that much.

I love Pippen but sorry, he is one of the most overrated players ever. When everyone says that Jordan would have no titles if it wasn't for Pippen, he's really overrated. Then you also have people on here saying Pippen is as great as Larry Bird or Kobe Bryant.
stats wise magic had a great championship, but he is magic friggn johnson for goodness sake. not to mention pip also had some pretty good scoring games in the 91 final. i believed he average 18 ppg on 52% shooting with about 8 brds and 7 asts.

and if im not mistaken when jordan had to do everyrthing in the beginning of his career the bulls were first round exits. i never said jordan couldnt do what pippen did. i said he could but he would not have won as much. and to me shutting magic down would be equal to scoring 60 pts. def not 30. guy, your another one of those guys that only looks at one side of the ball, offense, get your head out of your basckside at look at the big picture. theres a reason why defensive teams beat offensive teams most of the time.

and as far as the bird and bryant comparison, i believe weve had this convo before. i believe both bryant and bird are better players but not by much and not when you factor in all facets of basketball. not to mention bird and bryant were 1st options pip was a second. not really a fair compariso. but pip had all the tools to have mid 20 ppg seasons. he could drive with both hands, shoot, shoot the three, had a great 1st step, and had a high bball IQ. he even had a little jump hook in the post.

[97 bulls]

:roll: Evidence definetly pisses Jordan cocck**********ers at a ver y high rate.

Jordan words:

"If i go Back to Basketball It will Only be If Pippen Plays with me"...

(ofcourse if you have the most Complete SF, the Best Passing and Creative SF, the Best Defensive SF of the 1990s with you for all of your life so he *Pippen takes the Load on the Rest and you can go score and take as many FGA as you like...its quite obvious) :confusedshrug:

i remember that quote

[Jasper]

What if - we can only speculate , and it could of been a very good series.
But the span of three years the Bulls were pure veterans :
95/96 --- 72-10
96/97 --- 69-13
97/98 ---62-20

Other than role players; the core of the Bulls had a 203-43 record.
As desire is - The championship Bulls played for only a championship and the cream on the cake was to win a third in 97/98.
After the 72-10 season they didn't push to perform at that high level during the season , and guided themselves for the playoffs.
Houston may of gave them a run for their money , but the Bulls had an aura about them only true champions carry.

[guy]

stats wise magic had a great championship, but he is magic friggn johnson for goodness sake. not to mention pip also had some pretty good scoring games in the 91 final. i believed he average 18 ppg on 52% shooting with about 8 brds and 7 asts.

and if im not mistaken when jordan had to do everyrthing in the beginning of his career the bulls were first round exits. i never said jordan couldnt do what pippen did. i said he could but he would not have won as much. and to me shutting magic down would be equal to scoring 60 pts. def not 30. guy, your another one of those guys that only looks at one side of the ball, offense, get your head out of your basckside at look at the big picture. theres a reason why defensive teams beat offensive teams most of the time.

When defensive teams beat offensive teams it also has to do with the fact that the defensive teams are very good offensive teams as well. The Suns don't ever beat the Spurs cause they completely suck on defense, while the Spurs are one of the best defensive teams in the league AND they have a great offense. I definitely think defense is important, I'd be an idiot not to. I just think great offensive players are more important then great defensive players. I believe I've given you this analogy before, but a great offensive but average defensive player can lead a bunch of scrubs to more wins then a great defensive but average offensive player can. In either scenario, you won't get many wins regardless.

And 1988 was a year where Pippen played like 20 mpg, and Jordan led his team to the 2nd round. The thing is people say Jordan without Pippen would've never won anything, but that implies that if Pippen never came around, Jordan would've NEVER gotten any help. That is highly doubtful. For example, if instead of Pippen, the Bulls had Dikembe Mutombo in his place, the Bulls would've still won multiple titles. The fact that Jordan never had a great center and still led his team to that many titles shows at least IMO that he could've won with differently constructed teams, considering almost all other championship teams had an above average and most of the time great center.

Look at 1998. Jordan was 35 years old, and Pippen was out for almost half the year. At 35 years old, Jordan led that team to a 27-11 record, which translates to about 58 wins in an 82 game season, without Pippen and they still ended up with over 60 wins and the best record in the league. Then in the playoffs, Pippen was almost a nonfactor at times with his back-injury. This was Jordan AT 35 YEARS OLD.



and as far as the bird and bryant comparison, i believe weve had this convo before. i believe both bryant and bird are better players but not by much and not when you factor in all facets of basketball. not to mention bird and bryant were 1st options pip was a second. not really a fair compariso. but pip had all the tools to have mid 20 ppg seasons. he could drive with both hands, shoot, shoot the three, had a great 1st step, and had a high bball IQ. he even had a little jump hook in the post.

If Pippen was as great as Bird, then the Bulls would've still been good enough to win the title in 95 and a baseball playing Jordan would've been enough help for him. I'll give you that Kobe isn't better then Pippen by much, but he's better.

[guy]

Barkley was done offensively by 1996. He could hardly run or leap and his back was dead (not to mention his knees) still Rodman was no contest for Barkley, even in that condition. Proof:

Bulls vs Rockets. Jordan 45pts Barkley 35 (Thrash talk game)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jGX_HXlTV-Q

They were both 35 years old (Michael and Charles) but their competitive fire was still young. Besides the great performances, there was lots of thrash talking, fun and mutual respect for one another. The only thing missing were the cracked asphalt and chain nets

The Rockets played without injured stars Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler and then lost guard Mario Elie with 6:54 left in the first half when he strained his left shoulder after colliding under the basket with Scottie Pippen.

But every time it looked like the Bulls would run away, Houston fought back with determined play from Barkley, who made 11-of-14 field goal attempts.

Barkley's intensity and aggressiveness made Dennis Rodman (no points, five rebounds in 35 minutes) ineffective, turning the NBA's leading rebounder into a pussycat with leopard-spotted hair.

"Charles doesn't take any of the mess that Dennis may try to do to other players to get into their minds," Jordan said.

Score Boards/Stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199801180CHI.html


That was a great video. I don't see why you hate on Barkley's Rocket days. At 34 years old, he was averaging 19 ppg/13 rpg, and its not like he was putting up those numbers on a bad team. There were two other great scorers, Hakeem and Clyde, and two other great rebounders, Hakeem and Willis, and he still put up numbers like that. If the Rockets don't have that many injuries that year, they get the 1st seed, and they beat the Jazz that year with HCA.

[Loki]

Who Guarded Magic Most Effecitve?:sleeping

Go watch the games instead of regurgitating nonsense you've heard in highlight videos. Jordan was on Magic AT LEAST 50% of the series, including all of game 1, first quarter of game 2, half of game 3, about 60-65% of game 4, and all of game 5. If Pippen was more effective, why did Jackson switch him back off Magic?


WHo Guarded Drexler Most Drexler? :sleeping

Jordan did, because he was the one who guarded Drexler at least 80-85% of the time during the '92 Finals. Go watch the games.


Who Guarded The Bigger Guards and the SF Scoring Threats? :sleeping

What bigger guards? Pippen guarded SF's exclusively save for a few exceptions. He did not guard anyone who was labeled a SG. SF scoring threats? He guarded SF's yeah -- that was his position. Who was guarding Drexler/Richmond/Miller/Dumars and guys like KJ/Isiah/Tim Hardaway/Price on occasion? Hint: it wasn't Pippen.


Who Played Most Minutes for the Bulls in the 1991 Play-Offs?

L...M...A...O :oldlol:

This "whoever played the most minutes was the KEY player" stuff is ridiculous. :oldlol:


1991 Play-Offs

Jordan: 40.5 MPG, 31.1 PPG (52.4% FG on 22.11 FGA!), 6.4 RPG, 8.4 AGP, 2.35 SPG

Pippen: 41.4 MPG, 21.6 PPG (50.4% FG on only 16.59 FGA = 5-6 FGA Lesser than Jordan took), 8.9 RPG, 5.8 ASPG , 2.47 SPG[/B]

Maybe you don't realize that scoring 10 extra points on 5.5 more shots per game is extremely efficient and impressive.

You seem to think that any player, if given 21-23 shots per game, can average 30+ ppg. They can't. Pippen could never find/create 22 good shots per game for himself -- certainly not if he were the focal point of the defense like Jordan was.

[Loki]

We're dealing with two TREMENDOUS Pippen jockers in this thread. Sir Braindead and a guy who has said in the past that Bird isn't much better than Pippen if at all (97 Bulls).

Pippen is easily the most overrated legend in NBA history. Easily.

[Sir Charles]

We're dealing with two TREMENDOUS Pippen jockers in this thread. Sir Braindead and a guy who has said in the past that Bird isn't much better than Pippen if at all (97 Bulls).

Pippen is easily the most overrated legend in NBA history. Easily.

Are u stupid I Never Said that Pippen was Better than Bird :confusedshrug: but there is no doubt he is the best

SF of the 90s
Defensive SF Ever
Pure Point-Forward of the 90s
Great Offensive Player in the 1 on 1 Department, Do to Spead, Moves and Could Leap and Dunk
One of the Most Fundamental SFs Ever

[97 bulls]

Go watch the games instead of regurgitating nonsense you've heard in highlight videos. Jordan was on Magic AT LEAST 50% of the series, including all of game 1, first quarter of game 2, half of game 3, about 60-65% of game 4, and all of game 5. If Pippen was more effective, why did Jackson switch him back off Magic?



Jordan did, because he was the one who guarded Drexler at least 80-85% of the time during the '92 Finals. Go watch the games.



What bigger guards? Pippen guarded SF's exclusively save for a few exceptions. He did not guard anyone who was labeled a SG. SF scoring threats? He guarded SF's yeah -- that was his position. Who was guarding Drexler/Richmond/Miller/Dumars and guys like KJ/Isiah/Tim Hardaway/Price on occasion? Hint: it wasn't Pippen.



L...M...A...O :oldlol:

This "whoever played the most minutes was the KEY player" stuff is ridiculous. :oldlol:



Maybe you don't realize that scoring 10 extra points on 5.5 more shots per game is extremely efficient and impressive.

You seem to think that any player, if given 21-23 shots per game, can average 30+ ppg. They can't. Pippen could never find/create 22 good shots per game for himself -- certainly not if he were the focal point of the defense like Jordan was.

i agree with everything you stated except the last point. pip couldnt find 22 fga a game because jordan took most of the shots. and thats def not a bad thing. but pippen had the skills to be a 25 ppg scorer.

[Godfather]

Are u stupid I Never Said that Pippen was Better than Pippen :confusedshrug: but there is no doubt he is the best

SF of the 90s
Defensive SF Ever
Pure Point-Forward of the 90s
Great Offensive Player in the 1 on 1 Department, Do to Spead, Moves and Could Leap and Dunk
One of the Most Fundamental SFs Ever

What?

[97 bulls]

We're dealing with two TREMENDOUS Pippen jockers in this thread. Sir Braindead and a guy who has said in the past that Bird isn't much better than Pippen if at all (97 Bulls).

Pippen is easily the most overrated legend in NBA history. Easily.
lol, let me set you straight bro. im a bulls fan not a jordan nutthugger like you. i believe you get off while watching 20 year old videos of michael jordan dunking on someone with his nuts in the other mans face. and from my side im dealing with a guy that is afraid that if pippen was considered one of the best that it takes away from the legacy of jordan. and i got news for you, IT DOESNT.

[Sir Charles]

That was a great video. I don't see why you hate on Barkley's Rocket days. At 34 years old, he was averaging 19 ppg/13 rpg, and its not like he was putting up those numbers on a bad team. There were two other great scorers, Hakeem and Clyde, and two other great rebounders, Hakeem and Willis, and he still put up numbers like that. If the Rockets don't have that many injuries that year, they get the 1st seed, and they beat the Jazz that year with HCA.

I don`t hate on the Rockets at all (they played with Great Ball Movement etc) I just new it was a bad idea for Charles because his real game is when he is the Focal Scoring Point and asoumes all responsabiliy. And he was done by 1996: His knees and leaping abilities were gone. We were actually lucky to see him after 1994. On the other hand it not a Great Idea to have an injured phenomena at 34, Hakeem at 34 and Clyde at 35 No Matter how Great They Where to Have 3 Ex Stars passed their Prime is to much of a Load. Not to mention Mario Elie like 35-36 years old too.

[Sir Charles]

lol, let me set you straight bro. im a bulls fan not a jordan nutthugger like you. i believe you get off while watching 20 year old videos of michael jordan dunking on someone with his nuts in the other mans face. and from my side im dealing with a guy that is afraid that if pippen was considered one of the best that it takes away from the legacy of jordan. and i got news for you, IT DOESNT.

:applause:

[Scott Pippen]

Pippen is easily the most overrated legend in NBA history. Easily.

disagree:no:

[Loki]

i agree with everything you stated except the last point. pip couldnt find 22 fga a game because jordan took most of the shots. and thats def not a bad thing. but pippen had the skills to be a 25 ppg scorer.

That's baloney. 22 FGA hit at 49% gives you ~21 ppg, then another 6-8 from FT's. That makes you a 27-29 ppg scorer, not a 25 ppg scorer. Again, Pippen could not create 22 good shots for himself (i.e., where he would hit >48% of them) as the focus of the defense.

And Pippen couldn't have averaged 25 ppg anyway imo. He had the perfect opportunity to do so in '94 and '95 and didn't. I'm sure the Bulls needed his scoring in some games; the lack of high scoring games from Pip is another indication that he wasn't a big time scorer. He scored 35+ points a grand total of 6 times in those two seasons despite having free rein (and only two of those games were above 36 points; all but one were against poor defensive teams: ATL, GSW, PHO, LAL and DAL).

[Sir Charles]

disagree:no:

How are these idiots who are underrating Pippen? :confusedshrug:

[97 bulls]

That's baloney. 22 FGA hit at 49% gives you ~21 ppg, then another 6-8 from FT's. That makes you a 27-29 ppg scorer, not a 25 ppg scorer. Again, Pippen could not create 22 good shots for himself (i.e., where he would hit >48% of them) as the focus of the defense.

And Pippen couldn't have averaged 25 ppg anyway imo. He had the perfect opportunity to do so in '94 and '95 and didn't. I'm sure the Bulls needed his scoring in some games; the lack of high scoring games from Pip is another indication that he wasn't a big time scorer. He scored 35+ points a grand total of 6 times in those two seasons despite having free rein (and only two of those games were above 36 points; all but one were against poor defensive teams: ATL, GSW, PHO, LAL and DAL).

how do you arrive at 49%? was that something i stated. i believe that with the xtra shots he shoot about 44-46 percent. cuz he was streaky.

[Scott Pippen]

How are these idiots who are underrating Pippen? :confusedshrug:

i dont' know:confusedshrug:

Jordan is best but Pippen also have big role to help Bulls win 6 rings:applause:

[Sir Charles]

i dont' know:confusedshrug:

Jordan is best but Pippen also have big role to help Bulls win 6 rings:applause:

These Kids have to go get all the games from the 1993-94 Season but urgently :banghead: :confusedshrug:

[Loki]

how do you arrive at 49%? was that something i stated. i believe that with the xtra shots he shoot about 44-46 percent. cuz he was streaky.

Because it's not beneficial to a team for a guy to take 22 shots per game and hit only 44-46% of them as the main option, especially if his FG% isn't that low because he's taking a lot of threes.

Again, Pippen wasn't a big time scorer. He had every opportunity to "average 25 ppg" in '94 and '95 and didn't do so. Don't try to rewrite history. He also had big scoring games VERY infrequently, even though they were needed those two seasons.

[Scott Pippen]

These Kids have to go get all the games from the 1993-94 Season but urgently :banghead: :confusedshrug:

agree:applause:

[Loki]

i dont' know:confusedshrug:

Jordan is best but Pippen also have big role to help Bulls win 6 rings:applause:

No one is saying he wasn't a huge part of that team, but look at what clowns like Sir Charles are saying. Pippen was not "THE KEY" to the Bulls winning. He was an excellent player, but not "THE KEY."

It's just a joke, really. If Barkley got Pippen instead of the Bulls getting him, Pippen never becomes the player he is, particularly defensively. After all, when your mentor is Charles "I don't do defense" Barkley rather than Michael "DPOY" Jordan, you can't learn as much or develop that fire.

[Sir Charles]

No one is saying he wasn't a huge part of that team, but look at what clowns like Sir Charles are saying. Pippen was not "THE KEY" to the Bulls winning. He was an excellent player, but not "THE KEY."

It's just a joke, really. If Barkley got Pippen instead of the Bulls getting him, Pippen never becomes the player he is, particularly defensively. After all, when your mentor is Charles "I don't do defense" Barkley rather than Michael "DPOY" Jordan, you can't learn as much or develop that fire.

Yes he was in the 91 Championship. In the rest it was a job of All. A Player being the Key to a Championship doesnt necesarly mean the Best Player of a Team:banghead:

[Scott Pippen]

No one is saying he wasn't a huge part of that team, but look at what clowns like Sir Charles are saying. Pippen was not "THE KEY" to the Bulls winning. He was an excellent player, but not "THE KEY."

It's just a joke, really. If Barkley got Pippen instead of the Bulls getting him, Pippen never becomes the player he is, particularly defensively. After all, when your mentor is Charles "I don't do defense" Barkley rather than Michael "DPOY" Jordan, you can't learn as much or develop that fire.
agree:applause:

also Johnny Bach is a great defensive coach that helped

[97 bulls]

Because it's not beneficial to a team for a guy to take 22 shots per game and hit only 44-46% of them as the main option, especially if his FG% isn't that low because he's taking a lot of threes.

Again, Pippen wasn't a big time scorer. He had every opportunity to "average 25 ppg" in '94 and '95 and didn't do so. Don't try to rewrite history. He also had big scoring games VERY infrequently, even though they were needed those two seasons.
that makes sense, however i believe that 44-46 is about average. there are only a few mid 20s scorers that shoot 50 or higher. so i think that with a few more shots and fouls he would. i mean, he averaged 22 in 94 and that only a few points off.

[Indian guy]

and to me shutting magic down would be equal to scoring 60 pts. def not 30. guy,

OK, but when did Pippen shut Magic down? How many times does this myth need to be shot down before EVERYONE shuts up about it? FACT: MJ almost exclusively guarded Magic in the '91 Finals for ALL 5 games save for short stretches when he was in foul trouble or taking a breather on the bench. This is a fact. I have every game of this series and I've watched each game countless times over the years. Pippen guarded Magic for a significant period ONLY 2 times in that series. Once in Game 2 during the 2nd half after MJ got in foul trouble, and he did indeed do a great job. Pippen guarded Magic again for a decent stretch in Game 3, but Magic completely had his way that time. That's it! Outside of those 2 stretches Pippen was only on Magic for a few minutes here and there the entire series. MJ took him otherwise and he himself wasn't taking Magic 1-on-1 much. Bulls doubled and trapped Magic that entire ****ing series. Horace Grant almost always came and doubled Magic in the post. Limiting him was a complete team effort and I can't emphasize limiting enough! Magic's numbers in the Finals were no different than what he had been putting up all season. His FG% dropped a little and that was about it. Nobody shut him down. Way too many kids watch those Championship Bulls videos where they show/talk about Pippen stopping Magic in Game 2, and they think that's what happened the entire series. It only happened in 1 game people.


not to mention bird and bryant were 1st options pip was a second. not really a fair compariso.

There's a reason for that. Pippen was never a good enough playmaker to be a great 1st option. He just wasn't that good of an offensive player and it showed whenever he took the court w/o MJ.


but pip had all the tools to have mid 20 ppg seasons.

Come on. Nobody in 94 and 95 was stopping him from putting up those numbers. The Bulls w/o MJ were a VERY mediocre offensive team. Yet the best Pippen could muster was 22 ppg, and that's who he is. He's not a 1st option/go-to-guy material. He had many skills but he lacked the skills required to be a volume scorer - such as a consistent jumper, great 1-on-1 ability or a great post-game. Pippen didn't have any of those things. He had an inconsistent J, he was never a great 1-on-1 player because he didn't have a great 1st step(you're dead wrong about that) + had a high dribble which never helps you in face-up 1-on-1 situations. He developed into a pretty solid post player by his late 20's, but was never good enough to operate exclusively from there and score a lot. Pippen's strength on the offensive end was his transition play. He was a terrific open court player, be it running it up himself or filling the lanes. But these strengths made him an opportunistic scorer rather than someone you could use as a go-to-guy when the game slowed down. He simply wasn't that good of a playmaker off the dribble. I watched this guy's entire career LIVE every other night here in Chicago. I know his game as well as anyone. He was 1 of the greatest defensive players of all time and was terrific in the open court. Offensively he could do a lot of the basics(dribble/shoot/slash/finish) at an above average level. Above average being the key. He simply didn't have the required skills on the MORE important end of the floor to be THE MAN or the superstar ignorant people make him out to be.

[Loki]

OK, but when did Pippen shut Magic down? How many times does this myth need to be shot down before EVERYONE shuts up about it? FACT: MJ almost exclusively guarded Magic in the '91 Finals for ALL 5 games save for short stretches when he was in foul trouble or taking a breather on the bench. This is a fact. I have every game of this series and I've watched each game countless times over the years. Pippen guarded Magic for a significant period ONLY 2 times in that series. Once in Game 2 during the 2nd half after MJ got in foul trouble, and he did indeed do a great job. Pippen guarded Magic again for a decent stretch in Game 3, but Magic completely had his way that time. That's it! Outside of those 2 stretches Pippen was only on Magic for a few minutes here and there the entire series. MJ took him otherwise and he himself wasn't taking Magic 1-on-1 much. Bulls doubled and trapped Magic that entire ****ing series. Horace Grant almost always came and doubled Magic in the post. Limiting him was a complete team effort and I can't emphasize limiting enough! Magic's numbers in the Finals were no different than what he had been putting up all season. His FG% dropped a little and that was about it. Nobody shut him down. Way too many kids watch those Championship Bulls videos where they show/talk about Pippen stopping Magic in Game 2, and they think that's what happened the entire series. It only happened in 1 game people.



There's a reason for that. Pippen was never a good enough playmaker to be a great 1st option. He just wasn't that good of an offensive player and it showed whenever he took the court w/o MJ.



Come on. Nobody in 94 and 95 was stopping him from putting up those numbers. The Bulls w/o MJ were a VERY mediocre offensive team. Yet the best Pippen could muster was 22 ppg, and that's who he is. He's not a 1st option/go-to-guy material. He had many skills but he lacked the skills required to be a volume scorer - such as a consistent jumper, great 1-on-1 ability or a great post-game. Pippen didn't have any of those things. He had an inconsistent J, he was never a great 1-on-1 player because he didn't have a great 1st step(you're dead wrong about that) + had a high dribble which never helps you in face-up 1-on-1 situations. He developed into a pretty solid post player by his late 20's, but was never good enough to operate exclusively from there and score a lot. Pippen's strength on the offensive end was his transition play. He was a terrific open court player, be it running it up himself or filling the lanes. But these strengths made him an opportunistic scorer rather than someone you could use as a go-to-guy when the game slowed down. He simply wasn't that good of a playmaker off the dribble. I watched this guy's entire career LIVE every other night here in Chicago. I know his game as well as anyone. He was 1 of the greatest defensive players of all time and was terrific in the open court. Offensively he could do a lot of the basics(dribble/shoot/slash/finish) at an above average level. Above average being the key. He simply didn't have the required skills on the MORE important end of the floor to be THE MAN or the superstar ignorant people make him out to be.

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better myself.

These clowns like Sir Charles watch some highlight videos and then parrot what they hear. It's a joke to those of us who have (repeatedly) watched the actual games. Your points about Pip's strengths/weaknesses on offense echo my own thoughts. The things that kept him from being an elite scorer were his inconsistent jumper (especially off the dribble), his high dribble, his non-elite first step and agility (this despite being one of the fastest end-to-end players ever and a terrific leaper), and his lack of certain skills (triple threat footwork and post game in particular).

I also have to chuckle when I come across kids who say that Pip was a better ballhandler than Jordan. "BUT HE INITIATED TEH OFFENSE!!!11oneone." :oldlol:

[Sir Charles]

that makes sense, however i believe that 44-46 is about average. there are only a few mid 20s scorers that shoot 50 or higher. so i think that with a few more shots and fouls he would. i mean, he averaged 22 in 94 and that only a few points off.

Are you an idiot? in 1994-95 Mr. Jordan came back for some games still

:violin:

Let me Remined You:

When Jordan was there...

It was Pippens Job to:

1-STOP the Main Scoring Threat of the Other team (other than Some Big Time PFs)

2-Lead the Creative Assisting Job from the "Forward Spot" and Sometimes The "Guard Spot". BOTH.

3-Be The Best Perimeter Defender He Could Be

4-Rebound in the Paint

5-Be The Second Scoring Threat while Being the Main Creator for Others in Both Ends (Front Line/Backcourt)

Now..When Jordan Left. Pippen had to the Same Thing but....

Be The Main Focal Scoring Threat:banghead:

Guess what happend in the 93-94 Season?

Pippen made the Whole Bull Team FG% Rise, Himselves Rise. Lead the Team In EVERYTHING, EVEN THE LOAD

55 Wins (Just 2 Less than With Jordan)

Face The Knicks for 7 Games, In One of The Most Exiting Series Ever. Yes The Knicks The the Team that took HAKEEM to 7 Games and when Jordan was around to 6 Games

3rd in MVP Voting

Finally...In a Trianlge Offense When Most of the Offense is Relied and Done by Perimeter/Backcourt Players Moving Around in A Fast Pace to Escape for a Good Shot its = much harder to have a High FG%.

Contraty to where a Fast Pace Offense Team Lead by a Great PG (ala Magic, Stockton) and a Good Passing SG = Its Much Easier for the Frontline to Have a High FG% and Score because the Backcourt Just has the Job to Create for them (80s Lakers Example)

The Bulls had it Very Hard!:hammerhead: even with both Jordan and Pippen. Because their strengths was not Frontline Offense.

The Bulls where not the 80s Celtics, Mid 80s Rockets, Early 80s Sixers, Mid 80s Hawks :no: etc whose Strength was the Frontline Offense.

Their Offensive Strength was the Backcourt: Paxon/BJ, Jordan and with Pippen as a Third Guard-like Point Forward.

So you had Pippen having to Create and Score at the same time and Yes Play D (especiallyfor Pipp it usually him having to Guard the Other Team`s Best Offensive Man: Wilkins, Bird etc) ALL AT THE SAME TIME and without Jordan...just imagine the load?:sleeping

Stop Underrating Pippen :banghead: :hammerhead:

[Heilige]

OK, but when did Pippen shut Magic down? How many times does this myth need to be shot down before EVERYONE shuts up about it? FACT: MJ almost exclusively guarded Magic in the '91 Finals for ALL 5 games save for short stretches when he was in foul trouble or taking a breather on the bench. This is a fact. I have every game of this series and I've watched each game countless times over the years. Pippen guarded Magic for a significant period ONLY 2 times in that series. Once in Game 2 during the 2nd half after MJ got in foul trouble, and he did indeed do a great job. Pippen guarded Magic again for a decent stretch in Game 3, but Magic completely had his way that time. That's it! Outside of those 2 stretches Pippen was only on Magic for a few minutes here and there the entire series. MJ took him otherwise and he himself wasn't taking Magic 1-on-1 much. Bulls doubled and trapped Magic that entire ****ing series. Horace Grant almost always came and doubled Magic in the post. Limiting him was a complete team effort and I can't emphasize limiting enough! Magic's numbers in the Finals were no different than what he had been putting up all season. His FG% dropped a little and that was about it. Nobody shut him down. Way too many kids watch those Championship Bulls videos where they show/talk about Pippen stopping Magic in Game 2, and they think that's what happened the entire series. It only happened in 1 game people.



There's a reason for that. Pippen was never a good enough playmaker to be a great 1st option. He just wasn't that good of an offensive player and it showed whenever he took the court w/o MJ.



Come on. Nobody in 94 and 95 was stopping him from putting up those numbers. The Bulls w/o MJ were a VERY mediocre offensive team. Yet the best Pippen could muster was 22 ppg, and that's who he is. He's not a 1st option/go-to-guy material. He had many skills but he lacked the skills required to be a volume scorer - such as a consistent jumper, great 1-on-1 ability or a great post-game. Pippen didn't have any of those things. He had an inconsistent J, he was never a great 1-on-1 player because he didn't have a great 1st step(you're dead wrong about that) + had a high dribble which never helps you in face-up 1-on-1 situations. He developed into a pretty solid post player by his late 20's, but was never good enough to operate exclusively from there and score a lot. Pippen's strength on the offensive end was his transition play. He was a terrific open court player, be it running it up himself or filling the lanes. But these strengths made him an opportunistic scorer rather than someone you could use as a go-to-guy when the game slowed down. He simply wasn't that good of a playmaker off the dribble. I watched this guy's entire career LIVE every other night here in Chicago. I know his game as well as anyone. He was 1 of the greatest defensive players of all time and was terrific in the open court. Offensively he could do a lot of the basics(dribble/shoot/slash/finish) at an above average level. Above average being the key. He simply didn't have the required skills on the MORE important end of the floor to be THE MAN or the superstar ignorant people make him out to be.


DAMN. GOAT Indian guy post! :cheers: :rockon:

[Loki]

When Jordan was there...

It was Pippens Job to:

1-STOP the Main Scoring Threat of the Other team (other than Some Big Time PFs)

False, as noted before. Pippen guarded SF's almost exclusively. Stop parroting what you hear on videos.


2-Lead the Creative Assisting Job from the "Forward Spot" and Sometimes The "Guard Spot". BOTH.

Jordan did a ton more playmaking than Pippen.


3-Be The Best Perimeter Defender He Could Be

Ok.


4-Rebound in the Paint

Okay.


5-Be The Second Scoring Threat while Being the Main Creator for Others in Both Ends (Front Line/Backcourt)

Jordan was the main creator on the team, especially during the first three-peat. Stop parroting.



Finally...In a Trianlge Offense When Most of the Offense is Relied and Done by Perimeter/Backcourt Players Moving Around in A Fast Pace to Escape for a Good Shot its = much harder to have a High FG%.

Amazing how Jordan shot 50-54% under the same offense, huh?



So you had Pippen having to Create and Score at the same time and Yes Play D (especiallyfor Pipp it usually him having to Guard the Other Team`s Best Offensive Man: Wilkins, Bird etc)

Pippen guarded the opponent's best offensive player when they were SF's (like Wilkins and Bird that you mentioned). And Pippen didn't even guard Wilkins until 1992.

[Indian guy]

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better myself.

These clowns like Sir Charles watch some highlight videos and then parrot what they hear. It's a joke to those of us who have (repeatedly) watched the actual games. Your points about Pip's strengths/weaknesses on offense echo my own thoughts. The things that kept him from being an elite scorer were his inconsistent jumper (especially off the dribble), his high dribble, his non-elite first step and agility (this despite being one of the fastest end-to-end players ever and a terrific leaper), and his lack of certain skills (triple threat footwork and post game in particular).

I also have to chuckle when I come across kids who say that Pip was a better ballhandler than Jordan. "BUT HE INITIATED TEH OFFENSE!!!11oneone." :oldlol:

I actually don't think Pippen's overrated at all by those who actually saw him play. But that's the problem. How many of these posters on message boards have actually seen him play? Not many. A lot of them think crediting Pippen with more accolades than he deserves makes them stand out or appear like they're more "knowledgeable" about the past. And you have some who are so sick of MJ that they overrate Pippen just to tear MJ down a little. Of course, they don't go about it that way but their agenda and ignorance becomes very obvious within 2 lines.

[Sir Charles]

These Kids must Really go Watch All Those Games :confusedshrug:.

Pippen = Most Underrated Player of the Late 80s and Early 90s
Pippen = Best Defensive 1 on 1 SF and Perimeter Player Ever
Pippen = Best SF of the 90s
Pippen = One of the Most All Around Forwards of All Time

Not to mention one of the Most Fundamental Players I Ever Saw in Terms of Passing and Playing Defense

:confusedshrug:

[Sir Charles]

Are you an idiot? in 1994-95 Mr. Jordan came back for some games still

:violin:

Let me Remined You:

When Jordan was there...

It was Pippens Job to:

1-STOP the Main Scoring Threat of the Other team (other than Some Big Time PFs)

2-Lead the Creative Assisting Job from the "Forward Spot" and Sometimes The "Guard Spot". BOTH.

3-Be The Best Perimeter Defender He Could Be

4-Rebound in the Paint

5-Be The Second Scoring Threat while Being the Main Creator for Others in Both Ends (Front Line/Backcourt)

Now..When Jordan Left. Pippen had to the Same Thing but....

Be The Main Focal Scoring Threat:banghead:

Guess what happend in the 93-94 Season?

Pippen made the Whole Bull Team FG% Rise, Himselves Rise. Lead the Team In EVERYTHING, EVEN THE LOAD

55 Wins (Just 2 Less than With Jordan)

Face The Knicks for 7 Games, In One of The Most Exiting Series Ever. Yes The Knicks The the Team that took HAKEEM to 7 Games and when Jordan was around to 6 Games

3rd in MVP Voting

Finally...In a Trianlge Offense When Most of the Offense is Relied and Done by Perimeter/Backcourt Players Moving Around in A Fast Pace to Escape for a Good Shot its = much harder to have a High FG%.

Contraty to where a Fast Pace Offense Team Lead by a Great PG (ala Magic, Stockton) and a Good Passing SG = Its Much Easier for the Frontline to Have a High FG% and Score because the Backcourt Just has the Job to Create for them (80s Lakers Example)

The Bulls had it Very Hard!:hammerhead: even with both Jordan and Pippen. Because their strengths was not Frontline Offense.

The Bulls where not the 80s Celtics, Mid 80s Rockets, Early 80s Sixers, Mid 80s Hawks :no: etc whose Strength was the Frontline Offense.

Their Offensive Strength was the Backcourt: Paxon/BJ, Jordan and with Pippen as a Third Guard-like Point Forward.

So you had Pippen having to Create and Score at the same time and Yes Play D (especiallyfor Pipp it usually him having to Guard the Other Team`s Best Offensive Man: Wilkins, Bird etc) ALL AT THE SAME TIME and without Jordan...just imagine the load?:sleeping

Stop Underrating Pippen :banghead: :hammerhead:


End :rockon:

[97 bulls]

OK, but when did Pippen shut Magic down? How many times does this myth need to be shot down before EVERYONE shuts up about it? FACT: MJ almost exclusively guarded Magic in the '91 Finals for ALL 5 games save for short stretches when he was in foul trouble or taking a breather on the bench. This is a fact. I have every game of this series and I've watched each game countless times over the years. Pippen guarded Magic for a significant period ONLY 2 times in that series. Once in Game 2 during the 2nd half after MJ got in foul trouble, and he did indeed do a great job. Pippen guarded Magic again for a decent stretch in Game 3, but Magic completely had his way that time. That's it! Outside of those 2 stretches Pippen was only on Magic for a few minutes here and there the entire series. MJ took him otherwise and he himself wasn't taking Magic 1-on-1 much. Bulls doubled and trapped Magic that entire ****ing series. Horace Grant almost always came and doubled Magic in the post. Limiting him was a complete team effort and I can't emphasize limiting enough! Magic's numbers in the Finals were no different than what he had been putting up all season. His FG% dropped a little and that was about it. Nobody shut him down. Way too many kids watch those Championship Bulls videos where they show/talk about Pippen stopping Magic in Game 2, and they think that's what happened the entire series. It only happened in 1 game people.



There's a reason for that. Pippen was never a good enough playmaker to be a great 1st option. He just wasn't that good of an offensive player and it showed whenever he took the court w/o MJ.



Come on. Nobody in 94 and 95 was stopping him from putting up those numbers. The Bulls w/o MJ were a VERY mediocre offensive team. Yet the best Pippen could muster was 22 ppg, and that's who he is. He's not a 1st option/go-to-guy material. He had many skills but he lacked the skills required to be a volume scorer - such as a consistent jumper, great 1-on-1 ability or a great post-game. Pippen didn't have any of those things. He had an inconsistent J, he was never a great 1-on-1 player because he didn't have a great 1st step(you're dead wrong about that) + had a high dribble which never helps you in face-up 1-on-1 situations. He developed into a pretty solid post player by his late 20's, but was never good enough to operate exclusively from there and score a lot. Pippen's strength on the offensive end was his transition play. He was a terrific open court player, be it running it up himself or filling the lanes. But these strengths made him an opportunistic scorer rather than someone you could use as a go-to-guy when the game slowed down. He simply wasn't that good of a playmaker off the dribble. I watched this guy's entire career LIVE every other night here in Chicago. I know his game as well as anyone. He was 1 of the greatest defensive players of all time and was terrific in the open court. Offensively he could do a lot of the basics(dribble/shoot/slash/finish) at an above average level. Above average being the key. He simply didn't have the required skills on the MORE important end of the floor to be THE MAN or the superstar ignorant people make him out to be.

first, show me where i stated that pip stopped magic. second, you contradict yourself by first saying pip had an inadequate jumpshot, or first step. then at the end of your post, say that he had an above average j, dribble, slash, and finish. make up your mind. and lol at pip couldnt score about 3 or 4 more ppg throughout his career because you saw him live? answer this question for me, when the game is over, dont the teams go back and critiq what they did by watching video? or do they just try to remember of the top of their head?

i believe pip could have averaged 23-25 ppg if he did what alot of players do and thats pad their stats. he was the ultimate team player.

[momo]

Finally...In a Trianlge Offense When Most of the Offense is Relied and Done by Perimeter/Backcourt Players Moving Around in A Fast Pace to Escape for a Good Shot its = much harder to have a High FG%.




Look, this thread is already stupid beyond belief and off topic so I don't mind taking it further: this is not at all what the tipple post is about...

And it is not about making text look stupid by pressing buttons either:cheers:

[guy]

i believe pip could have averaged 23-25 ppg if he did what alot of players do and thats pad their stats. he was the ultimate team player.

Alot of players can average 25 ppg, but on what kind of efficiency? And how many wins does that lead to? Put it this way, if Pippen had the mentality that Kobe had when he was with Shaq, where he felt he should have an equal scoring load, how successful are the Bulls? If Pippen is taking some of the scoring load away from Jordan, the Bulls don't win 6 championships. The difference between Pippen and Kobe is that Kobe is a much better scorer, so him having close to an equal load as Shaq was not detrimental to the team's success.

[97 bulls]

Alot of players can average 25 ppg, but on what kind of efficiency? And how many wins does that lead to? Put it this way, if Pippen had the mentality that Kobe had when he was with Shaq, where he felt he should have an equal scoring load, how successful are the Bulls? If Pippen is taking some of the scoring load away from Jordan, the Bulls don't win 6 championships. The difference between Pippen and Kobe is that Kobe is a much better scorer, so him having close to an equal load as Shaq was not detrimental to the team's success.
your saying the same thing i am. people discredit pippen because he wasnt scoring in the high 20s. but like i said, pip could do that but obviosly at the cost of winning.

[Timmy D for MVP]

When defensive teams beat offensive teams it also has to do with the fact that the defensive teams are very good offensive teams as well. The Suns don't ever beat the Spurs cause they completely suck on defense, while the Spurs are one of the best defensive teams in the league AND they have a great offense. I definitely think defense is important, I'd be an idiot not to. I just think great offensive players are more important then great defensive players.

Uhh, I see what you're saying, but no. A great defensive player is shown to be the key to winning championships. Think about this, in the history of the NBA only four players have ever won a title in the same year they won the scoring title (though I may be wrong, might want to check me on that).

Granted it's somewhat flukey of a stat, and Jordan did it 6 times, but I still believe there is a little correlation there. Normally when someone scores that much it is on either a bad team, or one that focuses on offense.

Unless there are two or more players who excell in the opposing fields, like Mike and Scottie. But what is different about them is that both were amazing on both sides of the floor, one stronger where the other was weaker.

Great defense begets offense, it doesn't work the other way around. So having that guy who can defend amazingly is in my mind more crucial.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I like to talk about what players' peers thought about them, because they would know better than any of us what someone did, or didn't do to make a team better. One of the best guys to quote is Michael Jordan, because he doesn't blow smoke up people's assses. Here's what he wrote about Pippen, and I paraphrase:

"There are very, very few I have come across in my career I would consider to have achived greatness. I would say Magic Johnson and Larry Bird have achieved greatness to a certin extent... The one player I think is close to them is Scottie Pippen... He's right there with those guys except as a leader... Believe me I don't think he's far from those guys. There are a lot of times on the court where I felt I was playing with my twin. That's how much he has grown in the time we've played together."

[97 bulls]

I like to talk about what players' peers thought about them, because they would know better than any of us what someone did, or didn't do to make a team better. One of the best guys to quote is Michael Jordan, because he doesn't blow smoke up people's assses. Here's what he wrote about Pippen, and I paraphrase:

"There are very, very few I have come across in my career I would consider to have achived greatness. I would say Magic Johnson and Larry Bird have achieved greatness to a certin extent... The one player I think is close to them is Scottie Pippen... He's right there with those guys except as a leader... Believe me I don't think he's far from those guys. There are a lot of times on the court where I felt I was playing with my twin. That's how much he has grown in the time we've played together."
nice post timmy

[guy]

Uhh, I see what you're saying, but no. A great defensive player is shown to be the key to winning championships. Think about this, in the history of the NBA only four players have ever won a title in the same year they won the scoring title (though I may be wrong, might want to check me on that).



So what? Great offensive players do not only consist of scoring champions. All championship teams were great offensive teams. On every one of those teams you had 1 guy who can go off on any night, or you had a combo of 2 or 3 that could give equal output. And I've said it doesn't work with just one aspect being strong, both offense and defense needs to be strong and balanced. Let me ask you, if you were starting off a team, who would you draft first, Carmelo Anthony or Bruce Bowen?

[97 bulls]

So what? Great offensive players do not only consist of scoring champions. All championship teams were great offensive teams. On every one of those teams you had 1 guy who can go off on any night, or you had a combo of 2 or 3 that could give equal output. And I've said it doesn't work with just one aspect being strong, both offense and defense needs to be strong and balanced. Let me ask you, if you were starting off a team, who would you draft first, Carmelo Anthony or Bruce Bowen?
i see how your thinking. but your question is not really a fair one. because bowen is a great ON THE BALL DEFENDER. he not a great help defender, rebounder, shot blocker etc. he cant control a game with his defense. then factor in that he has duncan backing him up. a better question to you would be bill russel who was a marginal scorer, and great defender or anthony. who is a great scorer and at best a marginal defender.

[Loki]

I like to talk about what players' peers thought about them, because they would know better than any of us what someone did, or didn't do to make a team better. One of the best guys to quote is Michael Jordan, because he doesn't blow smoke up people's assses. Here's what he wrote about Pippen, and I paraphrase:

"There are very, very few I have come across in my career I would consider to have achived greatness. I would say Magic Johnson and Larry Bird have achieved greatness to a certin extent... The one player I think is close to them is Scottie Pippen... He's right there with those guys except as a leader... Believe me I don't think he's far from those guys. There are a lot of times on the court where I felt I was playing with my twin. That's how much he has grown in the time we've played together."

Yeah, clearly Pippen is as good as Bird and Magic. :oldlol: My a$$...

[97 bulls]

Yeah, clearly Pippen is as good as Bird and Magic. :oldlol: My a$$...
you see, now your soundn like laker fans. where in that post did you see anything about pip being as good as bird and magic? i saw the word CLOSE. but not as good as. and on some nights he was as good as anybody.

[Loki]

and on some nights he was as good as anybody.

There was not a single night in Pippen's career where he was as good as the top 10 players who ever played were on their good nights. So you're wrong.

[guy]

i see how your thinking. but your question is not really a fair one. because bowen is a great ON THE BALL DEFENDER. he not a great help defender, rebounder, shot blocker etc. he cant control a game with his defense. then factor in that he has duncan backing him up. a better question to you would be bill russel who was a marginal scorer, and great defender or anthony. who is a great scorer and at best a marginal defender.

LOL, no offense but is this a joke? A better question would be to compare Carmelo Anthony, a great scorer, to freaking Bill Russell, arguably the greatest defensive player of all-time? What kind of fair comparison is that? I used Melo cause he's considered a top 5 scorer in this league and he's not a good defender, and Bowen cause he's considered a top 5 defender in this league and he's not a good scorer. There both about equal when it comes to their specialty. Plain and simple. The fact that you have to go all the way back to the 60s and take the greatest defender of all-time to compare to Melo proves my point.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Yeah, clearly Pippen is as good as Bird and Magic. :oldlol: My a$$...

Hey dawg, I'm just relaying the message, if you have an issue, take it up with Michael Jordan. I'm sure he'd have a few things to say.

[Timmy D for MVP]

So what? Great offensive players do not only consist of scoring champions. All championship teams were great offensive teams. On every one of those teams you had 1 guy who can go off on any night, or you had a combo of 2 or 3 that could give equal output. And I've said it doesn't work with just one aspect being strong, both offense and defense needs to be strong and balanced. Let me ask you, if you were starting off a team, who would you draft first, Carmelo Anthony or Bruce Bowen?

Again I would disagree with that, but it depends on your defenition of great.

Obviously I'd take Carmelo, this is a stupid comparison though, because Bowen is a great system defender. And the difference in impact both have is pretty wide.

How about this, if I were a GM would I take Tim Duncan's defense, or his offense? I would take his defense. He is good at both, but having an anchor defender like Duncan on your team puts you in a position to threaten for the title. So long as there are decent scorers on the team it can compete night in and night out.

Defense is easier to keep constant than offense. So a defensive player is a better key. Like you said those teams all had a guy who go off at any time, but you never knew when that time was. If you have a strong defense, it plays well all the time.

[97 bulls]

LOL, no offense but is this a joke? A better question would be to compare Carmelo Anthony, a great scorer, to freaking Bill Russell, arguably the greatest defensive player of all-time? What kind of fair comparison is that? I used Melo cause he's considered a top 5 scorer in this league and he's not a good defender, and Bowen cause he's considered a top 5 defender in this league and he's not a good scorer. There both about equal when it comes to their specialty. Plain and simple. The fact that you have to go all the way back to the 60s and take the greatest defender of all-time to compare to Melo proves my point.
no, it proves my point. there alot of great scorers that have come through the league, that couldnt play defense. really i think my comparison is better because melo, while not on the level of russel is a franchise player, like russel. while bowen, bowen is a great roleplayer. i would compare bowen to players like vinny "microwave" johnson, steve kerr etc.

[72-10]

Anyways, the Bulls would mop the floor with these Rockets. The game would be in hand by halftime.

[guy]

Obviously I'd take Carmelo, this is a stupid comparison though, because Bowen is a great system defender. And the difference in impact both have is pretty wide.

Ok well Steve Nash is considered by many to be a system offensive player considering how much better he was in Phoenix then Dallas. So how about Nash or Bowen? I get what you're saying though. How about Dikembe or Melo? Cause I would still take Melo.



How about this, if I were a GM would I take Tim Duncan's defense, or his offense? I would take his defense. He is good at both, but having an anchor defender like Duncan on your team puts you in a position to threaten for the title. So long as there are decent scorers on the team it can compete night in and night out.

Ok but that would change with different players. How about Jordan's offense or defense? Or Wilt's offense or defense? I would take both their offense and I don't think there needs to be an explanation.



Defense is easier to keep constant than offense. So a defensive player is a better key. Like you said those teams all had a guy who go off at any time, but you never knew when that time was. If you have a strong defense, it plays well all the time.

I'll agree that a defense is easier to keep constant, but I don't think its cause of one key defensive player. And thats the difference IMO. You can literally have one player carry a team offensively and still win a game, but one player can't carry a team defensively and still win a game at least not nearly as much.

[guy]

no, it proves my point. there alot of great scorers that have come through the league, that couldnt play defense. really i think my comparison is better because melo, while not on the level of russel is a franchise player, like russel. while bowen, bowen is a great roleplayer. i would compare bowen to players like vinny "microwave" johnson, steve kerr etc.

No it doesn't prove your point. It shows that there has rarely been any great defensive players that were also franchise players. The reason for that is probably because they usually don't have as much of an impact as an equally great offensive player. And when I mean great defensive players, I don't mean players like Duncan, Jordan, Wilt, or Hakeem. I mean players that were almost strictly great due to defense. You don't need to use Bowen, you could also use Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo, or Dennis Rodman. And if I were starting a franchise and had to choose between Melo or one of those guys, I would still take Melo.

[97 bulls]

No it doesn't prove your point. It shows that there has rarely been any great defensive players that were also franchise players. The reason for that is probably because they usually don't have as much of an impact as an equally great offensive player. And when I mean great defensive players, I don't mean players like Duncan, Jordan, Wilt, or Hakeem. I mean players that were almost strictly great due to defense. You don't need to use Bowen, you could also use Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo, or Dennis Rodman. And if I were starting a franchise and had to choose between Melo or one of those guys, I would still take Melo.
thats funny, cuz every player you mentioned has done save for mutombo, has won nba titles. and in the end thats all that matters. and melo was on a great team this year. on paper anyway.

[guy]

thats funny, cuz every player you mentioned has done save for mutombo, has won nba titles. and in the end thats all that matters. and melo was on a great team this year. on paper anyway.

Are you trying to compare the roles of Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman on those championship teams to Melo on the Nuggets? Neither one of those guys were franchise players. No GM in their right mind would build a team around Rodman or Wallace instead of Melo.

[Lebron23]

b.u.m.p

[Doctor Rivers]

Haha I made this thread two stars

[97 bulls]

This conversation was had almost 4 years ago. And anthony still has no championship.

I also remember having a conversation with Guy about Brian Williams. And he stated that williams had little to no contribution to the Bulls championship. If you exclude the first 6 games of the 97 playoffs, williams avg 9/5 on 50% shooting in 25 min along with solid defense and toughness. He played a huge roll in the bulls title run. The Bulls would've ate the Rockets alive.

[Lebron23]

Bump.

[Roundball_Rock]

Bump.

The Bulls>any ATG team in history (let alone the 97' Rockets), even though they were a 1 man team with no help. :lol

[kawhileonard2]

Would have been a 6 game series. Rockets PG would have been there issue.

[guy]

I'll give you that Kobe isn't better then Pippen by much, but he's better.

Good lord, peak Kobe hating days from yours truly :oldlol:. To my defense, Kobe still had another 5 great years after this, but wow :oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Bump