Wilt Chamberlain: 24 Inch Vertical

[3ball]

1. Yes, quite easily. Though why would he want his head to hit the ring? He's not going to be trying to get his head near it, so given that only 2% of his career field goals exists on film, and even less of his overall career, opportunities to see his head at maximum height near the rim are going to be slim to none. Only a few pics and clips exist of him jumping high in close vicinity of the ring, but nevertheless they definitely exist and don't really leave room for reasonable doubt.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4sqgfvu0TwI/VCJUe3ra60I/AAAAAAAAFcA/Y1vyTUqYHJU/s800/1111.JPG

2. Not that this has to do with your overall point you are trying to make, but Converse All Star shoes are not 1 inch thick, those type of basketball shoes back then were wafer thin compared to modern shoes. They were probably more like a half inch thick.
this is awesome... he's well past his athletic prime in this photo and the picture is obviously a legit angle...

and it squares with other youtube vids of wilt appearing to get his head by the rim... confirmed 35+ vert... confirmed goat nba talent.

[CavaliersFTW]

this is awesome... he's well past his athletic prime in this photo and the picture is obviously a legit angle...

and it squares with other youtube vids of wilt appearing to get his head by the rim... confirmed 35+ vert... confirmed goat nba talent.
He's 36 years old in that pic. What was Shaq's vertical at 36 years old? Is there any player that could get their head rim level at that age? I don't care if you're 7 foot or 6 foot... 7 footers tend to lose their vertical quickly especially as they put on weight. Wilt's ideal playing weight was about 290lbs. The Lopez twins are both 6-11.5 and 275-290, they will be lucky to jump over a loaf of bread when they are 36, let alone if they ballooned to 310lbs by that age.

[kshutts1]

this is awesome... he's well past his athletic prime in this photo and the picture is obviously a legit angle...

and it squares with other youtube vids of wilt appearing to get his head by the rim... confirmed 35+ vert... confirmed goat nba talent.
Legit angle? Looking at the rim, it's "confirmed" that the picture was taken from below the height of the rim. Therefore, if Chamberlain is even one inch closer to the camera than the rim is, then the angle is misleading.
The best angle for any vertical confirmation is straight on at the height of the rim. So it just looks like a single piece of metal. Otherwise, it can be distorted.

Considering the "logic leaps" you made, though, from confirmed vert to confirmed goat, I'd say you were being sarcastic. But in the event you were not, just thought I'd point out the obvious.

[CavaliersFTW]

Legit angle? Looking at the rim, it's "confirmed" that the picture was taken from below the height of the rim. Therefore, if Chamberlain is even one inch closer to the camera than the rim is, then the angle is misleading.
The best angle for any vertical confirmation is straight on at the height of the rim. So it just looks like a single piece of metal. Otherwise, it can be distorted.

Considering the "logic leaps" you made, though, from confirmed vert to confirmed goat, I'd say you were being sarcastic. But in the event you were not, just thought I'd point out the obvious.
Chamberlain is behind the rim, not in front of it.

[kshutts1]

Chamberlain is behind the rim, not in front of it.
Maybe someone that knows more about pictures can see that, but I can't. When I look at it, all I see is that Chamberlain could, might be, may be, in front, behind, or level with the rim.

Just arguing technicalities here. Again, I'd be absolutely shocked if he didn't have a 24" vert at age 50, much less 36, much less 22. Just saying the picture doesn't really prove anything.

[Marchesk]

Just arguing technicalities here. Again, I'd be absolutely shocked if he didn't have a 24" vert at age 50, much less 36, much less 22. Just saying the picture doesn't really prove anything.

But the video where he blocks and catches a jump shot at it's apex is clearly somewhere between 12'4" to to the top of the backboard. That was his college days, though. But it was really high up. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone else block a jump shot that far up off two feet and catch it on the way down. He had his fingertips at the top of the ball when he blocks it.

[kshutts1]

But the video where he blocks and catches a jump shot at it's apex is clearly somewhere between 12'4" to to the top of the backboard. That was his college days, though. But it was really high up. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone else block a jump shot that far up off two feet and catch it on the way down. He had his fingertips at the top of the ball when he blocks it.
Again, not arguing that he could jump really high. Just pointed out the picture doesn't prove anything.

[Marchesk]

That "top of the backboard" block video was what convinced me that Wilt really was a superior athlete. I'd never seen anything like that in a game. Not that high up. Certainly not off two feet from a defensive stance. Of course Wilt was really long as well.

Based on the videos Cavs has on his channel, there's no way Wilt had less than a 34" vertical. Simply no way. He probably could touch the top of the backboard in his athletic prime.

LOL @ 24" vertical. People thought Wilt was some unathletic stiff that dominated inferior competition.

[Marchesk]

Again, not arguing that he could jump really high. Just pointed out the picture doesn't prove anything.

Fair enough. Just wanted a chance to stan. :cheers:

[kshutts1]

Fair enough. Just wanted a chance to stan. :cheers:
I am all for "stanning" the older generation. Anyone I didn't get an opportunity to watch, I love to hear about. Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Cousy, Baylor, Moses, even Barkley, Magic, Bird to an extent (started watching in '94 and don't go out of my way for video).
Wilt is one of my favorite players of all time, and I have him on my first tier. So I'm all for it. I just don't like it when a "questionable" argument is stated as fact, even if I believe said fact. Gives all the "stans" a bad name.

[LAZERUSS]

That "top of the backboard" block video was what convinced me that Wilt really was a superior athlete. I'd never seen anything like that in a game. Not that high up. Certainly not off two feet from a defensive stance. Of course Wilt was really long as well.

Based on the videos Cavs has on his channel, there's no way Wilt had less than a 34" vertical. Simply no way. He probably could touch the top of the backboard in his athletic prime.

LOL @ 24" vertical. People thought Wilt was some unathletic stiff that dominated inferior competition.


How about these facts as well...

There were at least two eye-witness accounts of Wilt touching the top of the backboard (the well respected Sonny Hill, and Sixer's long-time trainer, Al Domenico.)

None other than Tex Winter claimed to have witnessed Wilt dunking from the FT line. He was so shocked by it, that he headed a committee to "ban the freakish activity."

Chamberlain won a College High Jump championship. As remarkable as that was, in itself, he did so, part-time, with poor techinque, and the day after a grueling conference basketball game the night before. One can only wonder what a "full-time" Chamberlain would have been capable of.

Wilt's college coach, Phog Allen, rolled out an experimental 12 foot rim, and there are articles which claim that Wilt was dunking on it.

There is footage of a 35 year old Wilt, at over 300 lbs, and on a surgically repaird knee, blocking Kareem's "unblockable" sky-hook, and he not only did it at it's apex, he did so TWICE within a few seconds. Those that saw the two play, including myself, would tell you that he was routinely blocking KAJ's sky-hooks.

You have seen the video footage of Wilt's blocked shot, in which his fingertips are within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard...or somewhere around 12'-9" to 12'-10". He accomplished that leap without benefit of a running start, going straight up, and with only a split second to react. Think about this...a couple of years ago, a fully rested Dwight Howard, with a running start, and on his second try, reached 12'-6". Now, ask yourself this... just what would a peak athletic Wilt have been capable of under the same circumstances as Howard?

[Elosha]

That "top of the backboard" block video was what convinced me that Wilt really was a superior athlete. I'd never seen anything like that in a game. Not that high up. Certainly not off two feet from a defensive stance. Of course Wilt was really long as well.

Based on the videos Cavs has on his channel, there's no way Wilt had less than a 34" vertical. Simply no way. He probably could touch the top of the backboard in his athletic prime.

LOL @ 24" vertical. People thought Wilt was some unathletic stiff that dominated inferior competition.

Marchesk, can you post the link of the video to which you are referring? I've seen the ones on youtube where Wilt is allegedly at the top of the backboard, however, they are taken at a camera angle that almost invariably exaggerates how high a player is. The angle is from the opposite side of the court, and looking down at a significant angle at the game action. If that's the footage you are describing, then unfortunately those angles are almost certainly distorted.

I like to take a measured view of Wilt. Honestly, I'm a bit more impressed with the variety of his skills and different moves and shots than with his overall athleticism. The vast majority of footage that I've seen, (and I've watched lots of Cavs' footage and whatever else I can see) suggest a player with good, but not out of this world leaping ability. In the vast majority of his posted dunks and blocks, both in his younger and older days, he is nowhere close to rim level. And yes, I know we are missing most of his footage, but thanks largely to Cavs, we do at least have enough footage to make some preliminary conclusions. On average, he is less explosive on a typical dunk than a player like Shaq, DRob, or, a player today like DeAndre Jordan (obviously he's a far greater player than Jordan; I'm simply talking about dunks).

I've seen no footage or pics where I would conclusively state he was rim level. Wilt did have fantastically long arms, which helps him in blocking shots, so I suppose it might be possible for him to have reached the top of the backboard... but I'm a bit skeptical.

In my opinion, Wilt may have had a similar vertical to Shaq or Robinson, both of whom could get their head rim level, or perhaps a bit less. Something like 33-36 inches. And certainly nowhere near the 50 inch or so vertical that Wilt claimed he had.

However, Wilt may be the best combination I've seen from a center as far as a mix of size, power, athleticism AND skill. He certainly has a greater range of offensive moves and shots than Shaq, but I'd also say he appears to be generally less explosive and less physical. And yes, I know that some will argue that Wilt had to, or chose to play with more finesse and/or Shaq would foul out immediately in the 60's. That may or may not be true. On the other hand, from what I've seen in the footage, Shaq faced far more aggressive double teams and overall physical play from defenses than Wilt did. To be honest, I've not been very impressed overall with the team strategies or individual defense that Wilt was facing, Admittedly, the footage is limited, but again, we now have enough to make some rational observations.

This is just my two cents worth and I'm not to try to unfairly criticize Wilt. I have him and Shaq in a virtual tie for greatest center. I would have loved to have seen those two go at it, whether in the 60's or the 2000's. It would have been a battle for the ages.

[CavaliersFTW]

Marchesk, can you post the link of the video to which you are referring? I've seen the ones on youtube where Wilt is allegedly at the top of the backboard, however, they are taken at a camera angle that almost invariably exaggerates how high a player is. The angle is from the opposite side of the court, and looking down at a significant angle at the game action. If that's the footage you are describing, then unfortunately those angles are almost certainly distorted.

I like to take a measured view of Wilt. Honestly, I'm a bit more impressed with the variety of his skills and different moves and shots than with his overall athleticism. The vast majority of footage that I've seen, (and I've watched lots of Cavs' footage and whatever else I can see) suggest a player with good, but not out of this world leaping ability. In the vast majority of his posted dunks and blocks, both in his younger and older days, he is nowhere close to rim level. And yes, I know we are missing most of his footage, but thanks largely to Cavs, we do at least have enough footage to make some preliminary conclusions. On average, he is less explosive on a typical dunk than a player like Shaq, DRob, or, a player today like DeAndre Jordan (obviously he's a far greater player than Jordan; I'm simply talking about dunks).

I've seen no footage or pics where I would conclusively state he was rim level. Wilt did have fantastically long arms, which helps him in blocking shots, so I suppose it might be possible for him to have reached the top of the backboard... but I'm a bit skeptical.

In my opinion, Wilt may have had a similar vertical to Shaq or Robinson, both of whom could get their head rim level, or perhaps a bit less. Something like 33-36 inches. And certainly nowhere near the 50 inch or so vertical that Wilt claimed he had.

However, Wilt may be the best combination I've seen from a center as far as a mix of size, power, athleticism AND skill. He certainly has a greater range of offensive moves and shots than Shaq, but I'd also say he appears to be generally less explosive and less physical. And yes, I know that some will argue that Wilt had to, or chose to play with more finesse and/or Shaq would foul out immediately in the 60's. That may or may not be true. On the other hand, from what I've seen in the footage, Shaq faced far more aggressive double teams and overall physical play from defenses than Wilt did. To be honest, I've not been very impressed overall with the team strategies or individual defense that Wilt was facing, Admittedly, the footage is limited, but again, we now have enough to make some rational observations.

This is just my two cents worth and I'm not to try to unfairly criticize Wilt. I have him and Shaq in a virtual tie for greatest center. I would have loved to have seen those two go at it, whether in the 60's or the 2000's. It would have been a battle for the ages.
http://youtu.be/zirehYtoxoI?t=5m42s

[Elosha]

http://youtu.be/zirehYtoxoI?t=5m42s

Thanks Cavs. Those two blocks are the footage I was thinking of. He obviously jumped high, but the angle is just what I described. I think that above the rim, opposite side of the court angle is generally going to add anywhere from 3-4 inches to anyone's jump. I've seen multiple occasions where that same angle is shown, and than another angle looking straight at the rim without any angle (such as a half court camera angle zoomed in) shows the player much lower. It's why I argued that 3Ball's alley oop dunk that appears to show MJ at eye/nose level with the rim, was more likely just head at rim, or slightly higher. Same type of angle.

Also, even at this distorted angle, Wilt's hands are clearly not at the top of the backboard. Still amazingly high though, probably at least 12 feet.

For a center, he had a very good, maybe even elite vertical leap. He's obviously a strong GOAT candidate; it's just sometimes I feel his proponents maybe push the boundaries a bit far when it comes speculating about his physical attributes. Wilt simply can't be the best at every single aspect of the game, it's not physically possible. And as great as Wilt is, in my opinion there have been many NBA players with higher verticals than him.

[CavaliersFTW]

Thanks Cavs. Those two blocks are the footage I was thinking of. He obviously jumped high, but the angle is just what I described. I think that above the rim, opposite side of the court angle is generally going to add anywhere from 3-4 inches to anyone's jump. I've seen multiple occasions where that same angle is shown, and than another angle looking straight at the rim without any angle (such as a half court camera angle zoomed in) shows the player much lower. It's why I argued that 3Ball's alley oop dunk that appears to show MJ at eye/nose level with the rim, was more likely just head at rim, or slightly higher. Same type of angle.

Also, even at this distorted angle, Wilt's hands are clearly not at the top of the backboard. Still amazingly high though, probably at least 12 feet.

For a center, he had a very good, maybe even elite vertical leap. He's obviously a strong GOAT candidate; it's just sometimes I feel his proponents maybe push the boundaries a bit far when it comes speculating about his physical attributes. Wilt simply can't be the best at every single aspect of the game, it's not physically possible. And as great as Wilt is, in my opinion there have been many NBA players with higher verticals than him.
He really is someone who could do things no one else in the history of the game has been capable of though. He could palm a 16lb bowling ball without using the holes. I've seen Michael Jordan try it on Jay Leno, he couldn't do it. I can't imagine anyone else in the history of the game could. Maybe Wayne Embry, but I'm not sure. He could flagpole his 7 foot 1 inch frame on a lamp post. There's a lot of things he could do that literally no other player that I'm aware was even remotely capable of. I think Wilt went off the rails when he claimed he had a 50 inch vertical, but I believe his vertical, at his weight or height, was unprecedented and to this day unrivaled. Bare minimum he had a 12 and a half foot reach, that's actually a figure that is cited in a newspaper if I can dig it up.

[DatAsh]

He could flagpole his 7 foot 1 inch frame on a lamp post.

:wtf:

That's ridiculous. The taller you are, the harder that is to do.

And yeah, I'd say his vert was at least 24 inches:lol I'd bet my life savings on that, and it would be the best investment I've ever made.

[LAZERUSS]

He really is someone who could do things no one else in the history of the game has been capable of though. He could palm a 16lb bowling ball without using the holes. I've seen Michael Jordan try it on Jay Leno, he couldn't do it. I can't imagine anyone else in the history of the game could. Maybe Wayne Embry, but I'm not sure. He could flagpole his 7 foot 1 inch frame on a lamp post. There's a lot of things he could do that literally no other player that I'm aware was even remotely capable of. I think Wilt went off the rails when he claimed he had a 50 inch vertical, but I believe his vertical, at his weight or height, was unprecedented and to this day unrivaled. Bare minimum he had a 12 and a half foot reach, that's actually a figure that is cited in a newspaper if I can dig it up.

Which, at the very least, equals Dwight's "Sport Science Record" 12-6 leap with a running start (and fully refreshed.)

[Elosha]

Which, at the very least, equals Dwight's "Sport Science Record" 12-6 leap with a running start (and fully refreshed.)

That's possibly true, but keep in mind that Wilt's probably got about at 4-6 inches in total height plus reach advantage. If they can touch the same height, it suggests Dwight's got a better vertical leap. And yes, Dwight's been seen with his head clearly over the rim.

But of course, even if Dwight's got a 3-4 inch better vertical than Wilt, he's not half the player Wilt was. Wilt would normally dominate him, along with any other center playing today.

[CavaliersFTW]

That's possibly true, but keep in mind that Wilt's probably got about at 4-6 inches in total height plus reach advantage. If they can touch the same height, it suggests Dwight's got a better vertical leap. And yes, Dwight's been seen with his head clearly over the rim.

But of course, even if Dwight's got a 3-4 inch better vertical than Wilt, he's not half the player Wilt was. Wilt would normally dominate him, along with any other center playing today.
Dwights standing reach in modern shoes is 9 feet 3.5 inches, or 9 feet 2 and 1/4 inches barefoot.

Wilt's standing reach in modern shoes would likely be 9 feet 7 inches (was 9 feet 6 inches in chuck taylors), was likely 9 feet 5 and 3/4 inches barefoot.

So just a 3.5 inch difference in their stationary reach.

So if Wilt 'only' touched 12 and a half feet, his Vertical would be (due to the shoes difference, Dwight is gifted an extra inch) 2.5 inches less than Dwight's. If Wilt however, touched 13 feet (the top of the backboard) as two individuals claim, then it'd be 3.5 inches greater than Dwight's.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Myth Busters

[eliteballer]

Blocking Kareem's hook or dunking from the FT line doesn't say a lot about his vert because of how LONG he was. They didn't call him "the stilt" for nothing and he had probably one of the biggest wingspans in nba history.

[Marchesk]

Marchesk, can you post the link of the video to which you are referring? I've seen the ones on youtube where Wilt is allegedly at the top of the backboard, however, they are taken at a camera angle that almost invariably exaggerates how high a player is. The angle is from the opposite side of the court, and looking down at a significant angle at the game action. If that's the footage you are describing, then unfortunately those angles are almost certainly distorted.

Here's a still from that video when he blocks the shot. The ball has a purple circle around it. The top red line runs from the back of the rim across his body. The bottom line runs from the tip of his shoes across a couple other players. He's up there. I can't be sure where the ball is in relation to the top of the backboard, but it does seem clear that Wilt's left shoulder is rim level.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/856x507q90/537/7PUkxL.png

[julizaver]

Here's a still from that video when he blocks the shot. The ball has a purple circle around it. The top red line runs from the back of the rim across his body. The bottom line runs from the tip of his shoes across a couple other players. He's up there. I can't be sure where the ball is in relation to the top of the backboard, but it does seem clear that Wilt's left shoulder is rim level.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/856x507q90/537/7PUkxL.png

The second red line is not upon his shoes. It is upon the socks - it should be around a one foot lower. Anyway it was still at least 30 inch jump. And there is photo where Wilt is jumping at a stadion near the horizontal bar for high jumping. There he is in the air around 36-37 inches (estimated by me given his height) from the pitch. What we don't know is if he is in the apex of his jump.
And this is the best clip about Wilt's leaping ability in the Wilt Chamberlain Archive chanel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF8yJ1J1W7Q

PS. Last week I was watching a documentary about Russell and there was footage of him playing where he was probably at his last season and going to the hoop afer Havlicek lay up. There was another player next to him and with his head near the rim we could see what a leaper he was.

[dunksby]

I'm disappointed that CavsFTW has not come up with a figure yet, I'd put it somewhere around 35-38 inches from the footage and reports.

[LAZERUSS]

The second red line is not upon his shoes. It is upon the socks - it should be around a one foot lower. Anyway it was still at least 30 inch jump. And there is photo where Wilt is jumping at a stadion near the horizontal bar for high jumping. There he is in the air around 36-37 inches (estimated by me given his height) from the pitch. What we don't know is if he is in the apex of his jump.
And this is the best clip about Wilt's leaping ability in the Wilt Chamberlain Archive chanel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF8yJ1J1W7Q

PS. Last week I was watching a documentary about Russell and there was footage of him playing where he was probably at his last season and going to the hoop afer Havlicek lay up. There was another player next to him and with his head near the rim we could see what a leaper he was.


There were also accounts at the time, of Wilt dunking the ball on a 12 foot rim. Considering that the ball is nearly a foot in diameter, that would have required a vertical of about 40-42".

Incidently, and as you would know better than anyone, Wilt likely blocked well over 1000 shots in his career. And Cavsfan could probably tell us exactly how many blocks that exist on video, but I suspect that it was no more than 5% (if that.) Given that we have at least 3-4 in which his fingertips are well over 12', one can only wonder how many more incredible blocks he had in his career...particularly early in his career.

[ralph_i_el]

Watch the hour long Wilt highlight video that Laz always pushes, then watch Andre Drummond's 3 minutes of highlights from last year.

If you can tell me you still think Wilt is a freak athlete that would dominate today, I'll know you're retarded.

In that Wilt video there's a few minutes of him shooting 8-10ft jumpers, and his defenders have their hands down on every play :roll:

He's not a stiff by any means, especially for his height. Its just that there are numerous guys that weigh more, and are CLEARLY quicker.

[stanlove1111]

Here's a still from that video when he blocks the shot. The ball has a purple circle around it. The top red line runs from the back of the rim across his body. The bottom line runs from the tip of his shoes across a couple other players. He's up there. I can't be sure where the ball is in relation to the top of the backboard, but it does seem clear that Wilt's left shoulder is rim level.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/856x507q90/537/7PUkxL.png

I don't know why people keep showing this picture trying to prove something. Its impossible to tell how high he got up here.

[CavaliersFTW]

Watch the hour long Wilt highlight video that Laz always pushes, then watch Andre Drummond's 3 minutes of highlights from last year.

If you can tell me you still think Wilt is a freak athlete that would dominate today, I'll know you're retarded.

In that Wilt video there's a few minutes of him shooting 8-10ft jumpers, and his defenders have their hands down on every play :roll:

He's not a stiff by any means, especially for his height. Its just that there are numerous guys that weigh more, and are CLEARLY quicker.
Drummond played how many games last season? We only have 29 games worth of Wilts career tops and that's meshing at least 11 or 12 completely non-NBA games worth of footage of him as a teenager in HS and college. We don't have anymore highlights of Wilt than one could pull from 29 random games worth of any player. Also, you think like 99% of people who comment on that video are retarded. Most who watch it are blown away at his apparent size strength and athleticism. If you aren't, perhaps you should figure out what you are failing to understand that so many others can see.

[ralph_i_el]

Drummond played how many games last season? We only have 29 games worth of Wilts career tops and that's meshing at least 11 or 12 completely non-NBA games worth of footage of him as a teenager in HS and college. We don't have anymore highlights of Wilt than one could pull from 29 random games worth of any player. Also, you think like 99% of people who comment on that video are retarded. Most who watch it are blown away at his apparent size strength and athleticism. If you aren't, perhaps you should figure out what you are failing to understand that so many others can see.

In one breath you sing this dudes praises, and in the next you deflect criticism by bringing up how little of him we've seen. How can you be so sure of his greatness then?

And yes, most people who comment on YouTube videos ARE retarded. That's commonly known.

I was not blown away at all. Uncontested jumpers and shots at the rim. A few nice blocks. I'm not impressed.

I don't believe half the stories of his ridiculous strength. Take Anthony Davis. Longer (proven), quicker (just watch the tape) with a much better jumper (actual ability to shoot past 12 ft). Drop him into Wilts NBA and he is your new GOAT. From the level of competition in that video, it looks like Shaq could have scored every single time down the court and averaged 75ppg. The amount of lax defense in the video is actually pretty hilarious. Maybe the defenders just gave up :confusedshrug: ?

[CavaliersFTW]

In one breath you sing this dudes praises, and in the next you deflect criticism by bringing up how little of him we've seen. How can you be so sure of his greatness then?

And yes, most people who comment on YouTube videos ARE retarded. That's commonly known.

I was not blown away at all. Uncontested jumpers and shots at the rim. A few nice blocks. I'm not impressed.

I don't believe half the stories of his ridiculous strength. Take Anthony Davis. Longer (proven), quicker (just watch the tape) with a much better jumper (actual ability to shoot past 12 ft). Drop him into Wilts NBA and he is your new GOAT. From the level of competition in that video, it looks like Shaq could have scored every single time down the court and averaged 75ppg. The amount of lax defense in the video is actually pretty hilarious. Maybe the defenders just gave up :confusedshrug: ?

So I looked up Drummonds top 10 plays last year.

Confirmed you are deulsional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAEc5cT8r_0

:facepalm

Not a single post-up. Mostly transition points. He'll steal the ball, then dunk. Wilt will catch your shot in mid-air run the fast-break himself and initiate a give and go alley-oop. No display of superior athleticism on Drummonds part, none. And he has inferior size to Wilt, he's Bob Laniers size not Wilt's size.

Let me break it down for you.

Ingredient number 1: Wilt's size/length/physical stature is special... on size ALONE he is virtually an unmatched physical specimen in the history of the sport. The guy could palm a 16lb bowling ball, had a 7-8 inch wingspan, 300lbs, 9-7 reach, ffs this stacked deck of traits aren't shared by any player in the NBA today, none. Shaq came closest, he was heavier (...fatter), but not quite as long/tall. No, Anthony Davis is not longer. Quicker, by virtue of what, being 235lbs to Wilt's 300? Being 6-9 and a 1/4 to Wilt's 7-1 and 1/16? Wilt's a damn Giant. Davis is Bill Russell's size.

Ingredient number 2: Wilt's athleticism ...okay so the dude was a literal giant. ...And a track athlete!? And a world class volley ball player? Highly coordinated and one of the strongest people on the planet? With a resting heart rate of 37 and owns every stamina record in the NBA by a longshot? His size alone was freak status. His combo of athleticism and size is GOAT status.

Ingredient number 3: Wilt's mind, competitiveness, and skill. A guy who is hyper competitive at everything to the degree that he wants to not only chase records but shatter them beyond sensical reach. And smart enough to make you look stupid off deft passing skill and up and unders under the rim that would be impossible to see coming even if they weren't coming from a GOAT status athlete's bag of tricks. Wilt didn't just need to score in transition off lobs or rebounds like say, Drummond. Wilt could methodically defeate you via post-up. He had a shot to go baseline, middle, or fadeaway. On top of having the vision to see over everyone and read the defense to always find the open man and pass out of doubles and triples.

You didn't watch the Wilt video if you think Drummonds top 10 plays ...of his entire season mind you ... are better than what can be found throughout Wilt's 29 game sample size. I mean, Drummond doesn't even post up ONCE. Wilt catches NINE shots in mid air in my mix, in a 29 game equivilant sample size... he's like a create-a-character :oldlol:

[ralph_i_el]

So I looked up Drummonds top 10 plays last year.

Confirmed you are deulsional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAEc5cT8r_0

:facepalm

Not a single post-up. Mostly transition points. He'll steal the ball, then dunk. Wilt will catch your shot in mid-air run the fast-break himself and initiate a give and go alley-oop. No display of superior athleticism on Drummonds part, none. And he has inferior size to Wilt, he's Bob Laniers size not Wilt's size.

Let me break it down for you.

Ingredient number 1: Wilt's size/length/physical stature is special... on size ALONE he is virtually an unmatched physical specimen in the history of the sport. The guy could palm a 16lb bowling ball, had a 7-8 inch wingspan, 300lbs, 9-7 reach, ffs this stacked deck of traits aren't shared by any player in the NBA today, none. Shaq came closest, he was heavier (...fatter), but not quite as long/tall. No, Anthony Davis is not longer. Quicker, by virtue of what, being 235lbs to Wilt's 300? Being 6-9 and a 1/4 to Wilt's 7-1 and 1/16? Wilt's a damn Giant. Davis is Bill Russell's size.

Ingredient number 2: Wilt's athleticism ...okay so the dude was a literal giant. ...And a track athlete!? And a world class volley ball player? Highly coordinated and one of the strongest people on the planet? With a resting heart rate of 37 and owns every stamina record in the NBA by a longshot? His size alone was freak status. His combo of athleticism and size is GOAT status.

Ingredient number 3: Wilt's mind, competitiveness, and skill. A guy who is hyper competitive at everything to the degree that he wants to not only chase records but shatter them beyond sensical reach. And smart enough to make you look stupid off deft passing skill and up and unders under the rim that would be impossible to see coming even if they weren't coming from a GOAT status athlete's bag of tricks. Wilt didn't just need to score in transition off lobs or rebounds like say, Drummond. Wilt could methodically defeate you via post-up. He had a shot to go baseline, middle, or fadeaway. On top of having the vision to see over everyone and read the defense to always find the open man and pass out of doubles and triples.

You didn't watch the Wilt video if you think Drummonds top 10 plays ...of his entire season mind you ... are better than what can be found throughout Wilt's 29 game sample size. I mean, Drummond doesn't even post up ONCE :oldlol:

Firstly, I did watch your wilt video and I was amazed at how slow his moves were and how bullshit the D was.

Secondly, idk what top 10 Drummond play video you watched. I watch one with him bouncing right by dudes in the post for explosive dunks.

Wilt may have weighed 300 after a bunch of years in the league, but Drummond weighs 280 as a kid and is clearly quicker.

And the Davis comparison was obviously meant to be between skinny young wilt and skinny young Davis. Davis' shoulders tell me he could get up to around 250 and still be quick as hell.

Wilt was big and athletic for his size. He played in a bullshit era. I'm sorry if you're one of his bastard children and I'm hurting your feelings.

NBA stamina records? Wtf are you talking about. Chase budinger is a world class volleyball player. So was robin Lopez iirc.

Drummond would break Wilt at his age.

In ten years you'll still be on the internet talking about Wilt, but by then he'll be 350lbs, as fast as Lebron, and have killed a whole pack of lions with only his dick. And you'll still never have watched him live :roll: you might as well start writing fanfics about him.

[CavaliersFTW]

Firstly, I did watch your wilt video and I was amazed at how slow his moves were and how bullshit the D was.

Secondly, idk what top 10 Drummond play video you watched. I watch one with him bouncing right by dudes in the post for explosive dunks.

Wilt may have weighed 300 after a bunch of years in the league, but Drummond weighs 280 as a kid and is clearly quicker.

And the Davis comparison was obviously meant to be between skinny young wilt and skinny young Davis. Davis' shoulders tell me he could get up to around 250 and still be quick as hell.

Wilt was big and athletic for his size. He played in a bullshit era. I'm sorry if you're one of his bastard children and I'm hurting your feelings.

NBA stamina records? Wtf are you talking about. Chase budinger is a world class volleyball player. So was robin Lopez iirc.

Drummond would break Wilt at his age.

In ten years you'll still be on the internet talking about Wilt, but by then he'll be 350lbs, as fast as Lebron, and have killed a whole pack of lions with only his dick. And you'll still never have watched him live :roll: you might as well start writing fanfics about him.
What basketball fans had to say after watching that video:

Wow this is absolutely amazing. I really never saw more than a few highlights of Wilt. After watching this I am now convinced he is the GOAT. This is nothing to take away from Jordan but Wilt could do it all. Lead the league in assists? As a center? Seriously? Amazing.


This is insane. Always knew he was a freak athlete, but I had no idea his game was such a finesse game. Moved like Dr. J under the hoop and had a nasty fadeaway. Really wish I could see him go up against the modern day freaks like a prime Shaq or Dwight.

Anyone know why he wasn't able to win more than two rings? He seems completely unstoppable.

Best post in the history of the Internet. Cant thank you enough.


Wilt was basically a Greek god amongst mortals.


After watching this I think Chamberlain is the GOAT.


WOW! Thank you so much for sitting down and spending hours doing the research, cutting together scenes, picking appropriate music....my god, the research & structuring of the video alone must have been 200 hours of your time. You're the first person I'm awarding reddit gold to.

After watching this, I really feel like I have a sense of what Wilt was like, and that most of the stuff they say about him is probably true. Looking at this footage looks like watching a grown man playing against 14-year-old teens.

Wilt vs other centers isn't really fair, because the other centers are big, fairly athletic guys who work out and play ball well, but Wilt had the type of natural athletic ability that comes along maybe every 100 years. I mean there's all kinds of stuff that has to happen, on a genetic level, for a human body to get that large and work that well.

His 20.000 women claim? Could see it being(close to) true just based off of how extreme he is in every other way -- so why wouldn't he also be extreme in that respect? Didn't he have a room in his house with nothing but leather sofas and a roof that opened so you could **** under the stars? Do you really think that in a pre-AIDS era, he wouldn't **** 4 bitches in one night all at once? Dude was just an extreme human being in every way and it's incomprehensible to any "regular" human.

And yes he would have done well in any era. In the stone age he would have done well at slaying sabretooth tigers with spears he made himself. In roman times he'd be undefeated for 20 years in the gladiator arena. He's just that type of rare breed of human.


Watched the whole thing twice.

I'm going to revise my pantheon of NBA greats.

1.Wilt Chamberlain -stats don't tell the whole story. One could also take into account different eras, pace, rules. But in any time, any arena, against anyone, he will almost always be the most dominant player on the court. Even against Prime Shaq/Prime Kareem/Prime Hakeem and even more so against the elite guards, especially on the defensive end. The tape reaffirms this long held belief of mine.

2.Kareem Abdul Jabbar - because of his consistency, productivity and longevity. Old Man River just kept plugging along. He was Duncan before Duncan, with an unguardable hook shot from either hand.

3.Michael Jordan - basketball is a show. And Air Jordan was the ultimate entertainer. Don't blink or you might miss something.

4.Magic Johnson - he was the best at getting his team to play. If Jordan was the ultimate soloist, Magic was the ultimate conductor, guiding his team to be at their very best. Most charismatic and natural leader in NBA history. Players will follow him anywhere.

5.Lebron James - premature? Maybe. But I've watched him from middle school to now. A basketball savant with a once in a generation athletic body. Strives to do the right play always whether shooting or passing the ball. If magic was the best leader, Lebron was his apprentice. The padawan to Magic's obi wan.

Next 5 in no order as of yet: Bill Russell, Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal, Larry Bird, Hakeem Olajuwon.


What really shocks me is how incredibly fast this dude was. He sprints from one side of the court to the other in no time at all.

That footage around 7:45 mark doesn't even look real.


It's disgusting that people can still downplay wilt so much... Look at the videos and you can see the people defending him are playing the best defence possible, he is just hitting unblockable shots again and again.

Also why do no players nowdays try the jump finger-roll over defenders? It seems hard/impossible to defend without fouling


7'8" wingspan with that kind of strength, stamina, and agility is insane.


I see a lot of Wilt in Drummond albeit at a lower level. Drummond is pretty agile, but I think he lacks the finesse around the basket and is a little out of shape compared to Wilt. Thanks OP for this window into the past.


The way he runs the break is amazing, looks like a guard running down the court


efficient, athletic, intelligent, BEAST.

amazing work btw, changed what me and everyone else thought about wilt (that he was great due to the era and the opposition).

he would've dominated the league in any given era.


Him taking off down the court at 7:40 is insane.


You can see how the guy scored 100 lol


Good work! Finally all makes sense. Gotta apologize to my old man now.


First off, this is really awesome man. Secondly holy shit, Wilt was ridiculous. A 9'7 STANDING REACH (in modern shoes)?! with that athleticism?! nobody's stopping that


Some of the stuff Wilt did in this video made my jaw drop. Like his amazing recovery time when jumping for blocks - simply mind-boggling. Thanks for this eye-opening video. I used to think Wilt was just a giant among short, unathletic opposition, but this video actually significantly changes my impression of Wilt.


After watching that video, I will never again entertain the notion of writing off Wilt's achievements as being a result of his era. He probably would have averaged 10 blocks a game even today.

Honestly it makes me wonder how the hell the Celtics dominated him in the playoffs.


Does this make anyone else question the GOAT discussion? Like this guy would dominate in any era easily. Honestly not sure if Jordan should be the consensus pick considering that this man, Wilt Chamberlain, existed.


I have been saying for years if there was a all time fantasy draft Wilt goes #1 easily. His impact on the court on both offense and defense is just absurd. No offense to jordan but he just has no chance of impacting the game the way a 7'2 center that is this strong and this fast and has post moves can.


This is ****ing amazing. Thank you

Wow seeing him run track/high jump is just absurd. He's 7'2 and looks more coordinated than guys 5'5

Those blocks/goaltends look like he really CAN touch the top of the backboard, his arms are like preying mantis arms just so long

That fadeaway jumper is ****ing smooth

He even had behind the back passes in the post

The way he grabs the ball with one hand and throws it in it's like he's holding a sock and throwing it into a wastebasket

Among many many others...

So what were you saying about Andre Drummond again?

That's interesting.. nobody else sees it.

You mad?

[ralph_i_el]

What basketball fans had to say after watching that video:





















Among many many others...

So what were you saying about Andre Drummond again?

That's interesting.. nobody else sees it.

You mad?

90% of the video is him scoring on centers a full head shorter than him that look like they all weigh 215lbs. Or shooting jumpers that aren't even contested.

Today's players wouldn't be afraid to send him to the line either.

I'm currently RE-watching the hour long "scouting tool" dudes are literally standing still with their hands down while he goes right by them for dunks. Am I supposed to be impressed? This just in, every team today has multiple big bodies that would be hacking the shit out of him if he was as good as you say.

Nobody is saying that Wilt wouldn't be a great player in any era. This mythologizing has gone way to far though. The same shit is happening with MJ now.

If Dwight got to post up a skinny Kris Humphries every game he'd look like a Greek god too

[CavaliersFTW]

90% of the video is him scoring on centers a full head shorter than him that look like they all weigh 215lbs. Or shooting jumpers that aren't even contested.

Today's players wouldn't be afraid to send him to the line either.

I'm currently RE-watching the hour long "scouting tool" dudes are literally standing still with their hands down while he goes right by them for dunks. Am I supposed to be impressed? This just in, every team today has multiple big bodies that would be hacking the shit out of him if he was as good as you say.

Nobody is saying that Wilt wouldn't be a great player in any era. This mythologizing has gone way to far though. The same shit is happening with MJ now.

If Dwight got to post up a skinny Kris Humphries every game he'd look like a Greek god too
The sad thing is you probably have no clue who Wilt is posting up against in the footage - nor how tall or heavy they actually were in real life and how it would compare to today's players. Also you are totally ignoring Wilt's own transition/2-person/offensive rebound game. You've failed to bring it up every time. That's like all today's centers know how to do, and Wilt looks a hell of a lot more dominant than they do at their own game. Him posting up in iso plays and CREATING his own driving baseline, middle, or fade away shots from scratch in a half court set is icing on the cake, half of today's bigs aren't even capable of post-up play. When the double, triple, and interior zones happened is when he passed to the open man, you want to see footage of him getting collapsed on then watch his passing clips again and pay the **** attention, the double and triple teams are there. If you want to see a mix of him getting double and triple teamed than you'll get one eventually when I incorporate "all-known" passing highlights. He was smart enough to hit the open man. He shot the ball when they played him one on one, or sometimes through doubles if the open man wasn't a solid option. Plain and simple fundamental basketball.

And Wilt makes everyone look undersized. He dwarfs Kareem and Artis Gilmore in all that footage. Two guys who would list 7 foot 4 today and are taller than anyone in the league. Dwarfed. Who the **** is supposed to look big next to Wilt? You have impossibly high expectations of his competition if you expect them to look significant next to him. Half of is competition are bona fide freak athletes themselves. Today's players would look just as useless and small.

[ralph_i_el]

The sad thing is you probably have no clue who Wilt is posting up against in the footage - nor how tall or heavy they actually were in real life and how it would compare to today's players. Also you are totally ignoring Wilt's own transition/2-person/offensive rebound game. You've failed to bring it up every time. That's like all today's centers know how to do, and Wilt looks a hell of a lot more dominant than they do at their own game. Him posting up in iso plays and CREATING his own driving baseline, middle, or fade away shots from scratch in a half court set is icing on the cake, half of today's bigs aren't even capable of post-up play. When the double, triple, and interior zones happened is when he passed to the open man, you want to see footage of him getting collapsed on then watch his passing clips again and pay the **** attention, the double and triple teams are there. If you want to see a mix of him getting double and triple teamed than you'll get one eventually when I incorporate "all-known" passing highlights. He was smart enough to hit the open man.

And Wilt makes everyone look undersized. He dwarfs Kareem and Artis Gilmore in all that footage. Two guys who would list 7 foot 4 today and are taller than anyone in the league. Dwarfed. Who the **** is supposed to look big next to Wilt? You have impossibly high expectations of his competition if you expect them to look significant next to him. Half of is competition are bona fide freak athletes themselves. Today's players would look just as useless and small.

Why would I know who Wilt is posting up? Im not 60 years old. I watch modern basketball and I watch a ****ing lot of it. I can estimate how big someone is by looking at them. I'm going through his playoff opponents on bball ref trying to find ANYONE he played against listed at 240 or over. So far I found 2 in his first 8 seasons.

How would Demarcus Cousins fare if only a handful of guys in the league weighed 240? Right now the wizards have three guys listed at 260 or above, and 2 are legit post players.

Stick Nene in that era and he averages 35 a game.

[CavaliersFTW]

Why would I know who Wilt is posting up? Im not 60 years old. I watch modern basketball and I watch a ****ing lot of it. I can estimate how big someone is by looking at them. I'm going through his playoff opponents on bball ref trying to find ANYONE he played against listed at 240 or over. So far I found 2 in his first 8 seasons.

How would Demarcus Cousins fare if only a handful of guys in the league weighed 240? Right now the wizards have three guys listed at 260 or above, and 2 are legit post players.
Dude... bball reference isn't going to tell you how heavy or how tall his opponents were in comparison to today.

Wanna know how much David Robinson weighed as a rookie? 227lbs. NBA inflated that to 235. The NBA has been a marketing machine since the 1980's. Modern players list info is skewed to make them list larger than life. In Wilt's time, not the case, and bball reference is an archive of stats - not player measurements.

If these guys played in the 60's bball reference would list them like this:

KG 6-11 217lbs

Joakim Noah 6-10 223lbs

Tyson Chandler 6-11 224lbs

Nerlens Noel 6-9 205lbs

Because it was their rookie measurements... and the league in the past just took that and it was your list info. No fudging, no bother re-adjusting late in their careers aside from a few isolated occurences.

Bill Russell for example, listed 215, his own rookie weight - played at 230 the majority of his career, and weighed as much as 240 in the latter half.

Wayne Embry, dunno what he's listed on there, 240? He played at 270 or 280.

Wes Unseld, also dunno what he's listed on there, 245? He played at 265-280.

Artis Gilmore listed 240 on bball reference, weighed as much as 285.

Nate Thurmond is chalked in at 225, but as a rookie he actually weighed 229, and weighed 245 for most of his playing career

Bellamy is cited at 265 in newspapers in the 70's, what's he listed at 225?

Bob Lanier weighed 300lbs as a rookie, he actually cut weight to get down as low as 260, when Wilt played him in the early 70's he was 280-290.

BBall reference isn't a database on player size. It's a database on player stats ... and has uncited list info. And the trends of how list info is created have changed dramatically from Wilt's time to today's time.

[Marchesk]

I don't know why people keep showing this picture trying to prove something. Its impossible to tell how high he got up here.

You can make out the back of the rim and it's clear that his outstretched side is close to shoulder length with the rim.

Wilt has at least a 36" leap in this video.

[jongib369]

Dude... bball reference isn't going to tell you how heavy or how tall his opponents were in comparison to today.

Wanna know how much David Robinson weighed as a rookie? 227lbs. NBA inflated that to 235. The NBA has been a marketing machine since the 1980's. Modern players list info is skewed to make them list larger than life. In Wilt's time, not the case, and bball reference is an archive of stats - not player measurements.

If these guys played in the 60's bball reference would list them like this:

KG 6-11 217lbs

Joakim Noah 6-10 223lbs

Tyson Chandler 6-11 224lbs

Nerlens Noel 6-9 205lbs

Because it was their rookie measurements... and the league in the past just took that and it was your list info. No fudging, no bother re-adjusting late in their careers aside from a few isolated occurences.

Bill Russell for example, listed 215, his own rookie weight - played at 230 the majority of his career, and weighed as much as 240 in the latter half.

Wayne Embry, dunno what he's listed on there, 240? He played at 270 or 280.

Wes Unseld, also dunno what he's listed on there, 245? He played at 265-280.

Artis Gilmore listed 240 on bball reference, weighed as much as 285.

Nate Thurmond is chalked in at 225, but as a rookie he actually weighed 229, and weighed 245 for most of his playing career

Bellamy is cited at 265 in newspapers in the 70's, what's he listed at 225?

Bob Lanier weighed 300lbs as a rookie, he actually cut weight to get down as low as 260, when Wilt played him in the early 70's he was 280-290.

BBall reference isn't a database on player size. It's a database on player stats ... and has uncited list info. And the trends of how list info is created have changed dramatically from Wilt's time to today's time.


Why would I know who Wilt is posting up? Im not 60 years old. I watch modern basketball and I watch a ****ing lot of it. I can estimate how big someone is by looking at them. I'm going through his playoff opponents on bball ref trying to find ANYONE he played against listed at 240 or over. So far I found 2 in his first 8 seasons.

How would Demarcus Cousins fare if only a handful of guys in the league weighed 240? Right now the wizards have three guys listed at 260 or above, and 2 are legit post players.

Stick Nene in that era and he averages 35 a game.

So you don't make yourself look silly. Why hold such strong opinions if you haven't done any real research or have any intent to? You can't possibly think anyone is going to take your opinion seriously if you boast about not knowing as much as the person you're arguing with on a given subject. :biggums:

[ralph_i_el]

So you don't make yourself look silly. Why hold such strong opinions if you haven't done any real research or have any intent to? You can't possibly think anyone is going to take your opinion seriously if you boast about not knowing as much as the person you're arguing with on a given subject. :biggums:

What I'm arguing is that Wilt's greatness is blown out of proportion by people who never actually experienced his career (which they haven't). I've watched more wilt footage than most BBall fans. No one has disputed how shitty the D was in those videos.

I'm not disputing that Wilt is bigger and stronger than almost every athlete ever. I'm saying that being that big and strong against the guys in these videos is not the same as being big and strong against the NBA players of today, who are drawn from a bigger population and are motivated by huge salaries.

I know you guys don't believe it, but I watched the hour long Wilt video twice all the way through. Most of the guys he's being guarded by do not look as big and strong as the guys I see on TV every night.

Dwight would look like a god playing against a random big 10 team. That doesn't mean he isnt a dominant NBA player. It doesn't mean the big 10 dudes can't play. It just means that players will look very different based on the level of their competition. Wilt was a 30-50 ppg scorer in his day. He is NOT a 50 point...or 40 point....or 35 ppg scorer in today's league. Could he be MVP? Win a scoring title or 4? Sure! But he isn't going to be ragdolling the other center every night.

My opinion (if you give it any weight) if I watched that hour of footage and had to predict his peak in the NBA today (like we do with draft picks all the time) I'd say he could top out at 27-14-4 on elite efficiency. Far from the basketball Jesus that some folks would have us beleive.

I don't want to give anyone the idea that I don't think Wilt could be dominant today.

[Asukal]

What I'm arguing is that Wilt's greatness is blown out of proportion by people who never actually experienced his career (which they haven't). I've watched more wilt footage than most BBall fans. No one has disputed how shitty the D was in those videos.

I'm not disputing that Wilt is bigger and stronger than almost every athlete ever. I'm saying that being that big and strong against the guys in these videos is not the same as being big and strong against the NBA players of today, who are drawn from a bigger population and are motivated by huge salaries.

I know you guys don't believe it, but I watched the hour long Wilt video twice all the way through. Most of the guys he's being guarded by do not look as big and strong as the guys I see on TV every night.

Dwight would look like a god playing against a random big 10 team. That doesn't mean he isnt a dominant NBA player. It doesn't mean the big 10 dudes can't play. It just means that players will look very different based on the level of their competition. Wilt was a 30-50 ppg scorer in his day. He is NOT a 50 point...or 40 point....or 35 ppg scorer in today's league. Could he be MVP? Win a scoring title or 4? Sure! But he isn't going to be ragdolling the other center every night.

My opinion (if you give it any weight) if I watched that hour of footage and had to predict his peak in the NBA today (like we do with draft picks all the time) I'd say he could top out at 27-14-4 on elite efficiency. Far from the basketball Jesus that some folks would have us beleive.

I don't want to give anyone the idea that I don't think Wilt could be dominant today.

:applause:
Inb4 jlauber replies with cherrypicked stats that has nothing to do with what you said. :rolleyes:

[ralph_i_el]

:applause:
Inb4 jlauber replies with cherrypicked stats that has nothing to do with what you said. :rolleyes:
MyBodyIsReady.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

What I'm arguing is that Wilt's greatness is blown out of proportion by people who never actually experienced his career (which they haven't). I've watched more wilt footage than most BBall fans. No one has disputed how shitty the D was in those videos.

I'm not disputing that Wilt is bigger and stronger than almost every athlete ever. I'm saying that being that big and strong against the guys in these videos is not the same as being big and strong against the NBA players of today, who are drawn from a bigger population and are motivated by huge salaries.

I know you guys don't believe it, but I watched the hour long Wilt video twice all the way through. Most of the guys he's being guarded by do not look as big and strong as the guys I see on TV every night.

Dwight would look like a god playing against a random big 10 team. That doesn't mean he isnt a dominant NBA player. It doesn't mean the big 10 dudes can't play. It just means that players will look very different based on the level of their competition. Wilt was a 30-50 ppg scorer in his day. He is NOT a 50 point...or 40 point....or 35 ppg scorer in today's league. Could he be MVP? Win a scoring title or 4? Sure! But he isn't going to be ragdolling the other center every night.

My opinion (if you give it any weight) if I watched that hour of footage and had to predict his peak in the NBA today (like we do with draft picks all the time) I'd say he could top out at 27-14-4 on elite efficiency. Far from the basketball Jesus that some folks would have us beleive.

I don't want to give anyone the idea that I don't think Wilt could be dominant today.

That's actually not too bad, albeit, a prime Wilt would likely certainly get more than 14 rpg (hell Kevin Love grabbed 15 rpg in 35 mpg a couple of years ago.)

In any case... you have probably watched a lot of footage of Kareem then, as well...since there is a lot more out there.

What kind of numbers would a PRIME Kareem put up today? And keep in mind that a 38 and 39 year old Kareem, in 10 straight H2H games with a 23-24 year old Hakeem...averaged 32 ppg on a .630 FG%, with games of 40, 43, and 46 points (and in only 37 minutes, all while shooting 21-30 from the field.) Oh, and about the same time he dumped that 46 point game on Hakeem, he shelled Patrick Ewing by a 40-9 margin (outshooting Patrick by a 15-22 to 3-17 margin.)