Wilt Chamberlain: 24 Inch Vertical

[Bobe Kryant]

He can jump 24 inches straight up

http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/wilt/article3.html

Certainly doesn't sound like the athletic freak we've heard so much about. He also had only a 7'2 wingspan which is pretty surprising. And 225lbs is just embarassing. Shaq weighed something like 310lbs at the same age with 10x the athleticism.

For comparison, Shaq had a 7'7 wingspan and 36 vertical.

[Bobe Kryant]

Huh? :confusedshrug:

[catzhernandez]

:sleeping

And this changes.... what?

[SRZ66]

in before all the old timer defenders

[Kblaze8855]

Saying he can jump 2 feet just shows the standards they had then...doesnt mean its all he could do. Half of ISH can jump 24 inches im sure. But half of ISH isnt getting up enough to be an NCAA highjump champ as a hobby or to long jump 22 feet as he has proven capable of.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/images/nba/1999/chamberlain/wilt2.jpg
http://www.explorepahistory.com/images/ExplorePAHistory-a0l0v1-a_349.jpg

That is not a man with a 24 inch vertical.

[jernejtera]

http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/wilt/article3.html

Certainly doesn't sound like the athletic freak we've heard so much about. He also had only a 7'2 wingspan which is pretty surprising. Some swingmen are longer than that in the modern game (Rudy Gay, Mcgrady, Durant etc), let alone C's. And 225lbs is just embarassing. Shaq weighed something like 310lbs at the same age with 10x the athleticism.

For comparison, Shaq had a 7'7 wingspan and 36 vertical.

he's not an athletic freak for nowdays standarts. but how many of them where like him back at times when he played. at that times basketball played alot more white people and they are not known as athletic freaks. and his weight was completly ok for those days. how many guys had muscles and bodies like nowdays players? none. so his 225lbs and 24 inch was more then enough and it made him athletic freak compared to other guys that time in league. different times, different standarts

[Lebron23]

Overrated

[Bobe Kryant]

Saying he can jump 2 feet just shows the standards they had then...doesnt mean its all he could do. Half of ISH can jump 24 inches im sure. But half of ISH isnt getting up enough to be an NCAA highjump champ as a hobby or to long jump 22 feet as he has proven capable of.

That is not a man with a 24 inch vertical.

I don't know... it's difficult to gauge leaping ability from stills. He doesn't look to have an especially explosive vertical in the videos I've seen.

[jernejtera]

Wow, and this guy is suppose to be a better player than Prime Shaquille O'Neal and Prime Tim Duncan.

no, you see you can't compare players like that. like you can't compare a fifty years old car with a ferrari and put them in a drag race. and both cars are one of the best in their's era and then you say this old piece of **** is one of the greates?

if you want to compare players, you can compare them based on what they achived...

[Lebron23]

no, you see you can't compare players like that. like you can't compare a fifty years old car with a ferrari and put them in a drag race. and both cars are one of the best in their's era and then you say this old piece of **** is one of the greates?

if you want to compare players, you can compare them based on what they achived...

He only won 2 NBA Championships during his prime, and Russell and his team always kicked his ass in the playoffs.

Do you consider guys scoring 100 points in the NBL, CBA, PBA, D-League, and some other leagues in this some part of the world a much superior player than Kobe Bryant, who scored 81 points in the NBA?

[Kblaze8855]

His standing reach was 9'7''. Ive seen pictures of him palming a ball and touching it to the rim without jumping. Why would he need to show his full athletic potential to dunk? His most athletic plays are usually blocks and even those he didnt have to go all out for. Simple and plain....he high jumped 6'6'' in the 50s using a style that takes inches from modern athletes. At times he finished second to the first man to high jump 7 feet.....and he never went all out in the training and didnt even have good form by the standards of that time. Even at 7' if you can jump over a 6'6'' high jump bar clean without a full approach you can get up more than 24 inches. Look at 24 inches on a wall with a tape measurer or something. Its nothing. Somewhat fat linemen on my HS football team in the 250-260 range got up more than that. They arent jumping from the 3 point line to the basket though.....which track records show him doing in the long jump.

Acting impressed he can jump more than 2 feet just shows that vertical leap wasnt a major issue then and they didnt do much to find its limits. Id be shocked if a guy like Elgin Baylor or Maurice Stokes wasnt well beyond that....hell Oscar robertson too. 24 inches just isnt that high....1958 or 2008.

[mayorhoiberg]

On the forums page, when this is the last updated topic, it says

"Wilt Chamberlain: 24 Inch...."

It does not say vertical. And that is not the first word that came to mind before I entered into the NBA forum.

[mayorhoiberg]

On the forums page, when this is the last updated topic, it says

"Wilt Chamberlain: 24 Inch...."

It does not say vertical. And that is not the first word that came to mind before I entered into the NBA forum.

Do you know how I know you're gay?

You thought "peni s" before "vertical."

[jernejtera]

He only won 2 NBA Championships during his prime, and Russell and his team always kicked his ass in the playoffs.

Do you consider guys scoring 100 points in the NBL, CBA, PBA, D-League, and some other leagues in this some part of the world a much superior player than Kobe Bryant, who scored 81 points in the NBA?

well i'm a kobe fan so i'll say as fan no :D

but... scoring 81 points i think it would be the easiest in nba. look it's all relative.
for example kobe is the best in the world and he's playing in the best league in the world. if you put him in a lower league, maybe he can score 100 points if he uses all of his team shots. He can score 200 point if he plays in the lowest league in the world but would that make him a GOAT? no.

Why is nba the easiest to score 81... only nba has 48 min. that's 8 min more. only nba has 3pt line 3 foots longer, that leads to more space inside the 3pt line and it's easier to drive and it leads to less help for a defensive player. that means more one on one and if we assume that he is the best he has adventage. he can't score 81 point in euroleague in europe. because even though it would be easier for him to score a basket or create a shot, there would be less time, slower game tempo, he would be forced to shot more because of the defense and even though he's a great shooter imo it's heavier to score a 3pt with a hand on your face then an lay-up or a dunk.

you see that's why you can't make comparisons like that. i might be a great player in youth league where i play, but i'm nothing compared to kobe. it's all relative so you can't compare players and stuff like that

and that argument about only 2 rings. how come sir charles can be HOF?

[VanillaThunder]

Sir Charles posting in
5
4
3
2
1

[jernejtera]

Sir Charles posting in
5
4
3
2
1
:roll: :roll: :roll:

peace sir charles :cheers:

[jernejtera]

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/369/55566556yz6.png

i laughed so hard on that one i almost felt of a chair. i didn't notice earlier that he sad that he's gay to himself
:roll: :roll:

[catzhernandez]

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/369/55566556yz6.png
:oldlol:

I was thinking the same thing.

Dude just busted a gay joke... on himself. :wtf:

[Jimmy2k8]

On the forums page, when this is the last updated topic, it says

"Wilt Chamberlain: 24 Inch...."

It does not say vertical. And that is not the first word that came to mind before I entered into the NBA forum.


Do you know how I know you're gay?

You thought "peni s" before "vertical."


:roll: :oldlol:

Somebody forgot to log out of their main account.

[db23]

From the footage ive seen he was like Mutombo with less coordination, fair enough it was the older games with the lakers, full games too but his fundementals were shockingly bad.

[iamgine]

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/369/55566556yz6.png
Someone's coming out of the closet :roll:

[juju151111]

Do you know how I know you're gay?

You thought "peni s" before "vertical."
lmao why u calling youself gay?:roll: :hammerhead:

[Showtime]

Maybe a standing 24 inches...

[Sicknote]

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/369/55566556yz6.png

LOL, should've just put FAIL across it and start using it on people. :roll:

[MavsForever]

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/369/55566556yz6.png

This is the funniest thing I have ever seen.

[Psileas]

It's funny how, among all the other things, the OP chose to believe (and promote) the most derogatory one...Objectivity at its worst. It's wrong, anyway. I've repeatedly shown a video with 35-y.o Wilt's head being at almost rim level during a blocked shot, which denotes a past prime 34 inch vertical.
Here's another video of college Wilt blocking a shot at 0:15. You watch that and come tell me with a straight face that he had a 24-inch vertical...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fQAk7uiXVk

Not to mention that a 24-inch vertical will not give you a 6'6 high jump (old-style jumping), neither a 22 foot broad jump or good 400 and 800 times.

As for the wingspan, it's not really surprising, given that his height probably didn't reach his absolute peak yet and, especially, that his upper body was still very thin compared to his later versions.

[Psileas]

From the footage ive seen he was like Mutombo with less coordination, fair enough it was the older games with the lakers, full games too but his fundementals were shockingly bad.

Show us the footage you've seen.

[loot]

http://www.explorepahistory.com/images/ExplorePAHistory-a0l0v1-a_349.jpg

That is not a man with a 24 inch vertical.

idk but thats some ancient photoshopping... theres probably something which had to be concealed in the background. trampoline maybe.

not that i doubt wilt's abilities, but its just a strange pic

[loot]

btw before the ish detectives start: "peni s" has only been used twice on ish before.

[DuMa]

It was a weak era for measurement sticks

[loot]

It was a weak era for measurement sticks
yeah that joke was made in the last thread about wilt too.

[steve]

yeah that joke was made in the last thread about wilt too.
And was deleted.

[tontoz]

:roll: @ Hoiberg clowning himself by mistake. Priceless.

[mjbulls23]

another 60's related bashing thread http://mywebpages.comcast.net/alexgray23/NikeTalk/smh.gif

[32jazz]

another 60's related bashing thread http://mywebpages.comcast.net/alexgray23/NikeTalk/smh.gif

It is sad how guys don't appreciate history & are convinced that somehow we have become some superhuman athletes within a generation or two.:rolleyes: Since thew Olympics are here:

MJ maybe they don't know that great 60's athletes like Bob Beamon still has the second longest Long Jump ever.:confusedshrug:

Maybe they don't know that Lee Evans(of the 60's) 400 meter record(43'86) wasn't broken until 1988 by a dirty:no: Butch Reynolds & he(Evans) still is the 4th fastest 400 meter runner ever(including these supposedly "better" athletes & their performace enhancing drugs) Though I trust Michael Johnson.

The 68' 4 x 400 meter relay team world record wasn't approached until 1988 & dismissing the teams on which Butch Reyolds ran the 68' time is still the 2nd or 3rd fastest ever.

Jim Hines(of the 60's) ran a 9.95 which wasn't broken until 83(9.93) & has had many dirty athletes to set the record since Montgomery,(dirty)Gatlin(dirty)Be Johnson(:no: ),Maurice Greene has been seriously implicated),etc,.....Too many to name here. I have my doubts about todays sprinters as Marion Jones & Antonio Pettigrew underwent extensive test for over six years but neither ever tested positive.

Carl Lewis & Evelyn Ashford are only two of a handful of "star" post 80's sprinters I believe may not be dirty. Why do they need drugs to compete if they are so naturally superior than 60's athletes:confusedshrug:

The human body can only do so much & today's athletes are only benefitting from better equipment & training to get the absolute most out of their bodies. The huma body hasn't improved that quickly. Matter of fact we may eve become worse athletes in the future as we are becoming a very sedentary society.

This sixties bashing is nonsense.

[Godfather]

It is sad how guys don't appreciate history & are convinced that somehow we have become some superhuman athletes within a generation or two.:rolleyes: Since thew Olympics are here:

MJ maybe they don't know that great 60's athletes like Bob Beamon still has the second longest Long Jump ever.:confusedshrug:

Maybe they don't know that Lee Evans(of the 60's) 400 meter record(43'86) wasn't broken until 1988 by a dirty:no: Butch Reynolds & he(Evans) still is the 4th fastest 400 meter runner ever(including these supposedly "better" athletes & their performace enhancing drugs) Though I trust Michael Johnson.

The 68' 4 x 400 meter relay team world record wasn't approached until 1988 & dismissing the teams on which Butch Reyolds ran the 68' time is still the 2nd or 3rd fastest ever.

Jim Hines(of the 60's) ran a 9.95 which wasn't broken until 83(9.93) & has had many dirty athletes to set the record since Montgomery,(dirty)Gatlin(dirty)Be Johnson(:no: ),Maurice Greene has been seriously implicated),etc,.....Too many to name here. I have my doubts about todays sprinters as Marion Jones & Antonio Pettigrew underwent extensive test for over six years but neither ever tested positive.

Carl Lewis & Evelyn Ashford are only two of a handful of "star" post 80's sprinters I believe may not be dirty. Why do they need drugs to compete if they are so naturally superior than 60's athletes:confusedshrug:

The human body can only do so much & today's athletes are only benefitting from better equipment & training to get the absolute most out of their bodies. The huma body hasn't improved that quickly. Matter of fact we may eve become worse athletes in the future as we are becoming a very sedentary society.

This sixties bashing is nonsense.

It was a weak era for steroids testing.

[stephanieg]

It is sad how guys ... are convinced that somehow we have become some superhuman athletes within a generation or two.

All that bull testosterone in the water supply will do that! :)

[mjbulls23]

It is sad how guys don't appreciate history & are convinced that somehow we have become some superhuman athletes within a generation or two.:rolleyes: Since thew Olympics are here:

MJ maybe they don't know that great 60's athletes like Bob Beamon still has the second longest Long Jump ever.:confusedshrug:

Maybe they don't know that Lee Evans(of the 60's) 400 meter record(43'86) wasn't broken until 1988 by a dirty:no: Butch Reynolds & he(Evans) still is the 4th fastest 400 meter runner ever(including these supposedly "better" athletes & their performace enhancing drugs) Though I trust Michael Johnson.

The 68' 4 x 400 meter relay team world record wasn't approached until 1988 & dismissing the teams on which Butch Reyolds ran the 68' time is still the 2nd or 3rd fastest ever.

Jim Hines(of the 60's) ran a 9.95 which wasn't broken until 83(9.93) & has had many dirty athletes to set the record since Montgomery,(dirty)Gatlin(dirty)Be Johnson(:no: ),Maurice Greene has been seriously implicated),etc,.....Too many to name here. I have my doubts about todays sprinters as Marion Jones & Antonio Pettigrew underwent extensive test for over six years but neither ever tested positive.

Carl Lewis & Evelyn Ashford are only two of a handful of "star" post 80's sprinters I believe may not be dirty. Why do they need drugs to compete if they are so naturally superior than 60's athletes:confusedshrug:

The human body can only do so much & today's athletes are only benefitting from better equipment & training to get the absolute most out of their bodies. The huma body hasn't improved that quickly. Matter of fact we may eve become worse athletes in the future as we are becoming a very sedentary society.

This sixties bashing is nonsense.

Great examples. Also the limited NBA footage that's available from that era doesn't help much either as well as the fact that people nowadays often confuse flashy moves with athleticism.

[Paladin55]

idk but thats some ancient photoshopping... theres probably something which had to be concealed in the background. trampoline maybe.

not that i doubt wilt's abilities, but its just a strange pic

Yeah, maybe they were using some secret anti-gravity machine developed during the Cold War?

Every generation wants to believe that they are special, and the time they live in is special. It would seem that in the world of sports fans, this means that you have to downplay the achievements of athletes who you, yourself, never saw. (The converse of this is the older fan who talks about the athletes of yesteryear as if they were gods and claims that today's athletes are inferior.)

As someone who has watched the NBA for over 40 years, I get tired of listening both types, but in this forum i usually have to listen to the younger guys who seem to believe that sliced bread is a new thing, and no player they have not seen can be compared to anyone playing today.

Please grow up and understand that there actually were great players and athletes playing before you were weaned from your mommy, and that many of them would still be stars today. And then think about how you will respond in 25 years when some kid starts making fun of Kobe, Lebron, or Wade and how inferior they were compared to the players of 2033.

[gyu]

It is most definitely a primitive photoshop. I don't know how you can call yourself a human in 2008, where you see so many photoshops better than this one, but you can't see that this is a primitive 50s photoshop. It's a horrible photoshop to the trained eye that is used to seeing many photoshops:

http://www.explorepahistory.com/images/ExplorePAHistory-a0l0v1-a_349.jpg

Look at the right knee of one of the guys standing under Wilt, the one on the right. The canvas cuts through his right knee. Look at Wilt's shadow? What the hell is that? Especially the shadow of his right foot.. Did Wilt have pixelated shadows? Look at Wilt's hair, there is a white line around it.. Look at the shadow of Wilt's butt. You can see the line from right of the picture, someone didn't paint over it properly.. Plus there are various other details that suggest that this photo is certainly altered.
I think the pic is partly painted, notice the brush strokes on the side.

[Lebron23]

And Psielas thinks it was a real picture. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Rolando]

Give Wilt a pair of proper Nikes for his career and see the difference. You guys ever try to play ball in "Chuck Taylors"? .....Pain and Blisters.

[mayorhoiberg]

Lots of good senses of humor on ISH.

Impressive.

[mayorhoiberg]

I don't even understand what people think I did... Self-deprecating humor, anyone? No one here thinks that its funny when someone makes a joke about themselves?

People seriously think I have a second account? Look at my join date. Look at the number of posts I have. Go back and read my post history. Do I really strike anyone as the kind of rube that would have more than one username for any reason at all?

It's pretty sad that no one got it.

[Manute for Ever!]

Admid it, you screwed up.

[mayorhoiberg]

This is what I don't get... Screwed what up? How could what I said have been a mistake?

[Manute for Ever!]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/lenihanfighter/Demotivational%20posters/GayTest.jpg

[InspiredLebowski]

This is what I don't get... Screwed what up? How could what I said have been a mistake?

It is pretty sad. Even if you are a gimmick account, it isn't like you couldn't just delete the post immediately after realizing the mistake. Let alone going to the trouble of the screenshot/fail picture.

[Psileas]

And Psielas thinks it was a real picture.

"Psielas" is more accurate than someone like you, who believes Wilt had a 24-inch vertical and needed to fully extend while jumping to dunk...

[Dino]

What I can never understand about these debates is people thinking someone from the past would be the exact same size today and that someone from the present would be the exact same size in the past. Its a scientific fact that the progression of the chemicals in processed foods and the like have resulted in both accelerated maturation and size overall. On top of that, weight lifting equiptment is more advanced. Players have access to better equiptment, supplements...Look how quickly players put on weight now.

Do you think that's natural?
Do you think its because they have greater work ethic?

Its because of technology that didn't EXHIST in the 60s, so if someone from today came up in that time, they wouldn't benefit from today's technology. If someone from the 60s came up in this time THEY WOULD ALSO BENEFIT FROM TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY.

[supersmashbros]

"Psielas" is more accurate than someone like you, who believes Wilt had a 24-inch vertical and needed to fully extend while jumping to dunk...
I seriously doubt Chamberlain only had 24 inch vertical lol. Many pretty non-athletic folks can even jump 2 full feet into the air!

[Mathius]

That's not exactly documented evidence, its just some news story. The guy could have pulled that number out of his ass.

On the other hand, KBlaze's pics don't prove anything, nor does the video posted.

You guys ever hear of something called perspective? The video shows him in shots where he's several feet away, distorting the actual height of the rim. You'd have to actually go through and find some benchmarks from the background and try and compare and see exactly where he was at to see how high he is. To the casual eye, he looks to be jumping quite high, but if you take another look you see he's about a head's worth away from the rim, and at least 5 feet away in most of those shots. What does that prove? Nothing, just that you can't judge these things with the naked eye.

And KBlaze's photos are worthless because he has his feet in the air, which proves nothing on someone's standing high jump.

I'm more inclined to just base a judgement on his references to Wilt's track career than anything else.

Mathius

[Sir Charles]

:rolleyes:

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/pictures.htm

By the way Wilt Could Palm the Ball with 2 Fingers like if it where a Tennis Ball...

[Psileas]

You don't have to just doubt that Chamberlain only had a 24-inch vertical. You have to flat-out laugh at the fool who even believes so. Even the little footage available at Youtube has a lot of plays where Wilt clearly jumps more than 24 inches, and this includes his last seasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRfjQ2PLK1s

Look at the play at 1:31. That's Wilt at the age of current Shaq jumping a lot more than 24 inches.

[Mathius]

You don't have to just doubt that Chamberlain only had a 24-inch vertical. You have to flat-out laugh at the fool who even believes so. Even the little footage available at Youtube has a lot of plays where Wilt clearly jumps more than 24 inches, and this includes his last seasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRfjQ2PLK1s

Look at the play at 1:31. That's Wilt at the age of current Shaq jumping a lot more than 24 inches.

How does that video prove anything one way or another? The guy is documented at 7 foot and he still looks like he's almost a foot away form his head being at the rim. The camera is pointed up, distorting the angle on the replay. The first shot is from a camera overhead, AGAIN, distorting the angle.

It's called perspective.

It's like you totally ignored everything I said above.

You're not going to prove anything from a video without having a measuring stick under the guys feet.

Mathius

[OneMoreSucka]

Doesn't Pryzbilla have a 43 inch vertical?

[Fatal9]

Saying he can jump 2 feet just shows the standards they had then...doesnt mean its all he could do. Half of ISH can jump 24 inches im sure. But half of ISH isnt getting up enough to be an NCAA highjump champ as a hobby or to long jump 22 feet as he has proven capable of.
I've heard of him triple jumping 50 feet (which depends a lot on strides and not vertical) but never long jumping 22 feet.

[Psileas]

How does that video prove anything one way or another? The guy is documented at 7 foot and he still looks like he's almost a foot away form his head being at the rim. The camera is pointed up, distorting the angle on the replay. The first shot is from a camera overhead, AGAIN, distorting the angle.

It's called perspective.

It's like you totally ignored everything I said above.

You're not going to prove anything from a video without having a measuring stick under the guys feet.

Mathius

Some of the most impressive dunks and blocks of modern NBA players are performed from Wilt's jumping position and from this angle and yet it's still considered impressive if a guy of Wilt's size jumps that high. It's also considered great athleticism if a normal sized guy's head reaches at that position, again from the same angle. At least, unlike some other plays, if you see Wilt's feet, they step in the paint (=close to the basket) before and after the jump, which means that the distortion isn't as big as in other cases. Yes, in still exists, but so does it in the second one. I don't think that's a whole foot away from the basket.

The are plays with better angles, anyway, with Wilt still jumping high. The one in my avatar (seen also in http://wiltfan.tripod.com/pictures.htm at "Phili 2") is imo an indicator of more than 24'' of vertical leap, regardless of distortion.

[Psileas]

I've heard of him triple jumping 50 feet (which depends a lot on strides and not vertical) but never long jumping 22 feet.

It's actually found in the same source with the "24 inch" claim (Sporting News), which further disproves this claim. I quote:


Wilt is not a one-sport man, either. At Overbrook High School in Philly, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, broad jumped 22 feet. Bill Easton, Jayhawks track boss, predicts Wilt will reach 7 feet in the high jump if he concentrates on it.

[Mathius]

Some of the most impressive dunks and blocks of modern NBA players are performed from Wilt's jumping position and from this angle

It still doesn't prove how high they're jumping. You can't prove it from a picture, without a definite benchmark of some kind.

He could jump 7 feet off the ground for all I care, but you're not gonna prove it in those shots.

Mathius

[Psileas]

It still doesn't prove how high they're jumping. You can't prove it from a picture, without a definite benchmark of some kind.

He could jump 7 feet off the ground for all I care, but you're not gonna prove it in those shots.

Mathius

Of course it doesn't prove so, but I mean that even from that angle (and from Wilt's position), it's still not a usual spectacle to find a big man to jump that high. The few ones who can are credited with more than 24'' of vertical.

[Mathius]

Of course it doesn't prove so

Then why are you still arguing?

Mathius

[WildStyle]

http://www.explorepahistory.com/images/ExplorePAHistory-a0l0v1-a_349.jpg

That picture looks pretty fake. A photoshop before photoshop was invented.

[Psileas]

Then why are you still arguing?

Mathius

I'm arguing against the 24-inch claim. Even plays at these angles indicate a vertical of more than that (this would mean that, at his highest point, his head would still be almost a foot below the rim and you need some serious angle distortion to make such a player's head look close to the rim), as do his track and field results (sorry, no 24-inch leapers participate at high levels of high jump, even at high school).

In general, never in modern human history was 24 inches of vertical jump considered great athleticism. Not in 1950, not in 1900, not in ancient Greece and Rome. Certainly not in Wilt's time, either.


That picture looks pretty fake. A photoshop before photoshop was invented.

Maybe it is, though it's not something that a good leaper is unable to do. Their standing/jumping positions are pretty unusual, too, if we are to consider the possibility that they are cuts from different photos.

[Mathius]

I'm arguing against the 24-inch claim. Even plays at these angles indicate a vertical of more than that (this would mean that, at his highest point, his head would still be almost a foot below the rim and you need some serious angle distortion to make such a player's head look close to the rim), as do his track and field results (sorry, no 24-inch leapers participate at high levels of high jump, even at high school).

In general, never in modern human history was 24 inches of vertical jump considered great athleticism. Not in 1950, not in 1900, not in ancient Greece and Rome. Certainly not in Wilt's time, either.

None of that crap matters. You realize they've shot entire movies using nothing more than visual effects with the camera from odd angles? I can't believe you're still arguing this.

I don't give a damn what Wilt's vertical is. That's irrelevant. What I'm telling you, is you're never going to prove what it is from video footage.

You keep arguing like you're offended that anyone would question Wilt's vertical and your video footage is some kind of proof based on comparison's to today's players. It's not. It proves nothing. For all the reasons I've already listed.

I don't care what Wilt's vertical is. I'm not arguing that. Personally I feel he's overrated, but that doesn't have anything to do with it either. He could have a vertical of 42" for all I know. Don't know. Don't care. Point is, it can't be proved by video footage.

If you can't understand that, then I don't know what else to say to you. I really don't have anything more to add to this thread.

Mathius

[Psileas]

None of that crap matters. You realize they've shot entire movies using nothing more than visual effects with the camera from odd angles? I can't believe you're still arguing this.

I don't give a damn what Wilt's vertical is. That's irrelevant. What I'm telling you, is you're never going to prove what it is from video footage.

You keep arguing like you're offended that anyone would question Wilt's vertical and your video footage is some kind of proof based on comparison's to today's players. It's not. It proves nothing. For all the reasons I've already listed.

I don't care what Wilt's vertical is. I'm not arguing that. Personally I feel he's overrated, but that doesn't have anything to do with it either. He could have a vertical of 42" for all I know. Don't know. Don't care. Point is, it can't be proved by video footage.

If you can't understand that, then I don't know what else to say to you. I really don't have anything more to add to this thread.

Mathius

Man, I'm not saying I use this footage to shot how high he is able to jump. But some of it is just enough to know how low he didn't jump. Forget numbers for a while. We see plays from this certain angle all the time and each time some play happens under these circumstances of angle distortion and with their feet stepping in the paint the whole time, even the most athletic big men are not able to get much higher than this. Going by numbers, if Wilt is seriously jumping only 24 inches, then I've never seen any big man ever jump more than around 30-32 from that position (and I'm basically talking about 6-10 guys, not 7-1 ones). Now, unless you can show me that the angles in the videos I've shown are way more exaggerated than the angles of today's games (which I strongly doubt), I think it's some good measuring stick for rough comparisons to other players. Maybe not the most accurate one, but you have to completely lack perception if you can't just make some rough comparisons between players jumping from the same spot and seen from the same (or, at worst, a pretty similar) angle.
Also, if you have some footage that proves otherwise (like plays with big guys who, under these conditions are able to jump head and shoulders above this), I'd like to see this. Shaq, for example, supposedly, depending on the sources, had something like a 32 to 36-inch vertical. I'd like to see him jump 8-12 inches more than this under these circumstances at any clip and any play of his career.

[kumquat]

You find me one athlete throughout history who can ran olympic qualifying times and do high jump at a world level that can only jump 24inches. You've got to be kidding me. Any 7foot stiff in the NBA can jump 24inches.

[RainierBeachPoet]

maybe this was already posted but in 1958 wilt

"...showed his athletic versatility by winning the high jump competition in the Big Eight track and field championships, clearing the bar at 6-6."

http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html

[Big Al All day]

Wilt is a great player , maybe not athletic by today's standards, but people seem to forgot that people, technology everything progresses. This is like comparing a brick phone to a iPhone. Not possible.

[KenneBell]

Just goes to show you how much of an athletic freak Shaq was.

[Da KO King]

Here's something I've yet to actually read in this thread.......


Can someone explain how an untrained 7' 225lbs 19 year old with a no-step vertical of at least 24 inches who sets impressive track and field times for ANY era, let alone the 1950's, is just an "average" athlete?

[Psileas]

Wilt is a great player , maybe not athletic by today's standards, but people seem to forgot that people, technology everything progresses. This is like comparing a brick phone to a iPhone. Not possible.

Wilt was athletic by any standards. Again, read his track-field accomplishments as a high-schooler and college player and watch the (little, admittedly) footage existing. Of course, he would be even better and more athletic if he grew up nowadays, but actually he wouldn't need an ounce of additional athleticism to destroy competition.

Here's a nice pic of high-school Wilt (1st pic of the second page):

http://pro.corbis.com/search/searchFrame.aspx

[highwhey]

Overrated
is the man on your avatar. See what I just did there?

[Soundwave]

I dunno, Wilt starred with Arnold Schwarzenneger later in one of the Conan movies -- the guy was a freakish physical specimen ...

http://www.arnoldheight.com/articles/conanwilt.jpg

He makes Arnold look like a little child by comparision. Andre the Giant (wrestling great) is the other guy in the photo.

Arnold I remember also said that Wilt was freakishly strong, his bench press was some obsene amount. This is back in the day when there weren't too many athletes lifting weights.

Keep in mind too that Wilt did not have access to things like creatine and all the dietary suppliments players use today or things like plyometrics. But there is no way he was just an "average" athlete. Once he adjusted himself to the modern game, Wilt would cause a lot of damage even today.

[2LeTTeRS]

Wilt dunked on a 12 ft rim, he could jump higher than 24 inches.

[Mathius]

They should redo those Conan movies.

Mathius

[OneMoreSucka]

Wilt dunked on a 12 ft rim, he could jump higher than 24 inches.
That proves nothing, congratulations.

[GOBB]

Wilt is known as a great athlete not just with basketball. To think his vert was no more than 24 inches is foolish. Absolutely.

[Mathius]

Wilt is known as a great athlete not just with basketball. To think his vert was no more than 24 inches is foolish. Absolutely.

I agree, I just find the attempts in this thread to PROVE he could jump over 24 inches to be laughable.

Mathius

[Godfather]

Saying he can jump 2 feet just shows the standards they had then...doesnt mean its all he could do. Half of ISH can jump 24 inches im sure. But half of ISH isnt getting up enough to be an NCAA highjump champ as a hobby or to long jump 22 feet as he has proven capable of.

http://www.explorepahistory.com/images/ExplorePAHistory-a0l0v1-a_349.jpg

That is not a man with a 24 inch vertical.

That is some of the worst photoshoping I have ever seen. :sleeping

[LAClipsFan33]

You'd have to be a f*cking idiot to think he is not jumping higher than 24" for some these blocks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=849_WdqJ8o8

He was a world class high jumper in college. 24" vertical ain't gonna cut it to be world class obviously

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He'd be out jumping guards today as well because of the new nutrition and training methods.

[phoenix18]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/lenihanfighter/Demotivational%20posters/GayTest.jpg

I failed.

[Juges8932]

Do you know how I know you're gay?

You thought "peni s" before "vertical."

Priceless.
:roll:

[Alhazred]

I dunno, Wilt starred with Arnold Schwarzenneger later in one of the Conan movies -- the guy was a freakish physical specimen ...

http://www.arnoldheight.com/articles/conanwilt.jpg

He makes Arnold look like a little child by comparision. Andre the Giant (wrestling great) is the other guy in the photo.

:lol


Arnold I remember also said that Wilt was freakishly strong, his bench press was some obsene amount. This is back in the day when there weren't too many athletes lifting weights.

Keep in mind too that Wilt did not have access to things like creatine and all the dietary suppliments players use today or things like plyometrics. But there is no way he was just an "average" athlete. Once he adjusted himself to the modern game, Wilt would cause a lot of damage even today.

Quoted for truth.

[LAClipsFan33]

If his reach was 9'7" which is 115" and he can dunk on a 12 foot court that is 144" then he jumps higher than 24"

144" plus the 4-6 inches to clear the ball over is 148-150"

So 148-150 - 115 = 35-37" Vertical

/End Thread

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/Bigshow79_album/Giants/Wilt%20Chamberlain/1276_1_b.jpg

Illustration of 9'7" reach

****Edit

[Juges8932]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/lenihanfighter/Demotivational%20posters/GayTest.jpg

I passed:applause:

[ShaqAttack3234]

If his reach was 9'7" which is 107" and he can dunk on a 12 foot court that is 144" then he jumps higher than 24"

144" plus the 4-6 inches to clear the ball over is 148-150"

So 148-150 - 107 = 41-43" Vertical

/End Thread

That's assuming he was being truthful about the 12 foot claim which I'm not convinced of. Either way, I'd bet money his max vert was well over 30 inches, but over 40? That's a stretch, IMO.

[Fatal9]

I don't think Wilt's vertical was any bit over about 30 inches (which is good for a man his size). Never have seen footage to say otherwise. Those blocks are impressive due to his freakish wingspan and excellent anticipation, but if you keep an eye on just his vertical (while being aware of how his knees bending add to the illusion of a greater leap than in reality), it doesn't look that far away from about 30 inches. Definitely not even close to the ridiculous 40+ inch claims. At 3:20 for example, it looks like Wilt has a long run up and fully extends himself for the block, but he doesn't even really get that high up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=849_WdqJ8o8

[LAClipsFan33]

That's assuming he was being truthful about the 12 foot claim which I'm not convinced of. Either way, I'd bet money his max vert was well over 30 inches, but over 40? That's a stretch, IMO.

"Michael Wilson is a former player of the Harlem Globetrotters and the University of Memphis, also known as 'Wild Thing'.Wilson, 6'5, holds the world record for the highest dunk. On April 1, 2000, Wilson dunked a basketball on a goal set at 3.65m (12 feet) from the floor. However, Wilt Chamberlain was also known to have performed the feat on an experimental basket set up by Phog Allen at the University of Kansas in the 1950s [1]. Chamberlain, unlike Wilson, did not have the advantage of being given an alley oop. Michael Wilson played high school basketball at Melrose High School in Memphis, Tennessee. The Texarkana Gazette reported that he had a 52-inch vertical leap. In 1995 he was a starter on the University of Memphis Tiger basketball team that went to the Sweet 16 under coach Larry Finch."

Was known...meaning other people saw him do it. Not "It was rumored" or "In the words of Chamberlain"

[ProfessorMurder]

They should redo those Conan movies.

Mathius

No they shouldn't.

ProfessorMurder

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/lenihanfighter/Demotivational%20posters/GayTest.jpg

damn i always look at background before i look at the person.

[malek4980]

Was known...meaning other people saw him do it. Not "It was rumored" or "In the words of Chamberlain"

Note the passive voice. Known by whom?

[LAClipsFan33]

Note the passive voice. Known by whom?

Meaning it was known by people that this court was at Kansas and Wilt would dunk on it

[malek4980]

Meaning it was known by people that this court was at Kansas and Wilt would dunk on it

Known by people? Way to be specific. By whom?

It is known by many that I am the world's greatest lover.

[Flightposite]

If his reach was 9'7" which is 107" and he can dunk on a 12 foot court that is 144" then he jumps higher than 24"

144" plus the 4-6 inches to clear the ball over is 148-150"

So 148-150 - 107 = 41-43" Vertical

/End Thread

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/Bigshow79_album/Giants/Wilt%20Chamberlain/1276_1_b.jpg

Illustration of 9'7" reach


Nice math. Just kidding, get a tutor.

[Brunch@Five]

9'7" is 9 x 12 inches + 7 inches = 115 inches

[godofgods]

Do you consider guys scoring 100 points in the NBL, CBA, PBA, D-League, and some other leagues in this some part of the world a much superior player than Kobe Bryant, who scored 81 points in the NBA?

Well yeah, those leagues do not coddle 'star' players like the NBA does. Players in those leagues simply do not get favored by the refs and not protected by the commish like Kobe does. So yeah 100 points in those leagues >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe's 81 points.

[elementally morale]

No they shouldn't.

ProfessorMurder

I LOLd

elementally morale

[LAClipsFan33]

9'7" is 9 x 12 inches + 7 inches = 115 inches

Oh sh*t forgot to put the other 7 inches

I hate math.

So 148-150 - 115 = 33 - 35" Vertical

[ProfessorMurder]

I LOLd

elementally morale

Haha good to know it got a laugh :D

[Flightposite]

Oh sh*t forgot to put the other 7 inches

I hate math.

So 148-150 - 115 = 35 - 37" Vertical


....

33-35.

[Fatal9]

Oh sh*t forgot to put the other 7 inches

I hate math.

So 148-150 - 115 = 33 - 35" Vertical
So even if we accept the claim that he dunked on a 12 foot hoop, he would still need only a 30-32 inch vertical to do it. If you go by strictly the math it's 33-35, but his reach when extending with just one hand is more than 9'7, probably about to 9'10-9'11 (stand with both your arms up, and then try extending just one arm up like you would on a dunk and see the 4-5 inch difference in your reach).

24 inches is quite likely for his standing vertical, but if we include running I'd estimate about 29-32 inches, which is still excellent for a man his height.

[HighFlyer23]

either way he's no where near 40 or even 50 as some senile idiots put it .. this is a 50 inch vertical:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFmJioyrEms

there is no way a 7'2" man can get up like that ..

[MasterDurant24]

He only won 2 NBA Championships during his prime, and Russell and his team always kicked his ass in the playoffs.

Do you consider guys scoring 100 points in the NBL, CBA, PBA, D-League, and some other leagues in this some part of the world a much superior player than Kobe Bryant, who scored 81 points in the NBA?
:wtf:
The 100 point game was in the NBA...

[Court Vision]

:wtf:
The 100 point game was in the NBA...
LOL I had to scratch my head on that one too.

[bdreason]

You can only judge players against other players from their generation... and Wilt was undoubtedly one of the best players of his generation. He put up ridiculous numbers, and managed to win titles playing for inferior teams. Just respect what the guy did in his generation, and stop trying to compare him to guys that came 20-30 years after him.



And really, who gives a fukc what his vertical was? I've never heard such a retarded argument in my entire life.

[jstern]

I must say, the man can obviously jump over 24 inches, so I don't know where the mistake was made, but it's obviously a mistake. Perhaps the reporter heard that he was a long jumper, could jump 24 feet or something, and mix the 2 up.

[Chalkmaze]

"What's unfortunate is that most people regard the great leapers as being only the short guys who could dunk," said the 7-1 1/16 Wilt Chamberlain. "My sergeant [vertical leap] was higher than Michael Jordan's. When I went to Kansas, they had a 12-foot basket in the gym, because Dr. Phog Allen was advocating the 12-foot basket. I used to dunk on that basket. It was an effort, but I could do it." [2]
Wilt Chamberlain claims that his sergeant, during his prime, was "46 to 48 inches, easy."

Not that Wilt didn't talk a lot of bullshit... But I have no doubt he could jump at least 35 inches, and probably more.

[Psileas]

I made some Google Archive research about his 24 inch crap and the thing I found was a Fog Allen reference from a 1955 paper:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=AU8aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AyYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7337,2597875&dq=inches-over-the-rim&hl=en

So, the poor fella that the OP (a troll, BTW) quoted, took the "24 inches above the rim" and made it "24 inches vertical", which is quite a serious mistake. This would give Wilt a 30-inch vertical, still not close to the 48-52 myth and actually less than some of his footage shows as well (30 inches for Wilt would mean that his head would be 5 inches below the rim, and there have been plays of him getting higher than this), but way less laughable than the 24 baloney.

[jlauber]

I made some Google Archive research about his 24 inch crap and the thing I found was a Fog Allen reference from a 1955 paper:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=AU8aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AyYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7337,2597875&dq=inches-over-the-rim&hl=en

So, the poor fella that the OP (a troll, BTW) quoted, took the "24 inches above the rim" and made it "24 inches vertical", which is quite a serious mistake. This would give Wilt a 30-inch vertical, still not close to the 48-52 myth and actually less than some of his footage shows as well (30 inches for Wilt would mean that his head would be 5 inches below the rim, and there have been plays of him getting higher than this), but way less laughable than the 24 baloney.

I won't take the time to post the many links out there giving Wilt anywhere from a 48+" vertical leap. There have been eye-witness accounts of Wilt touching the top of the backboard (some 13 feet.) There was an eye-witness account of Wilt touching a hospital ceiling in which the sportswriter estimated that his vertical was at least 42". Wilt was KNOWN to have dunked on a 12 ft rim. We could go on for hours....but only a complete IDIOT would credit Wilt with a 24" vertical.

Furthermore, Wilt was a HIGH-JUMP champ at Kansas (6-6 1/2"). He was also a competitive LONG-JUMPER (nearly 23 feet.) AND, he also competed in the TRIPLE-JUMP (as well as the 4x100, the 440, and the 880.) So, even the estimates of 34-35" inches are preposterous. Wilt was CLEARLY capable of well over 40".

[asdf1990]

did he still kill the mountain lion with bare hands?

[jlauber]

did he still kill the mountain lion with bare hands?

If you want to turn this topic into Wilt's incredible strength, I could go on for hours. Needless to say, just google Wilt...the number of EYE-WITNESS accounts verifying his strength are plastered all over the internet. There is a good chance that Chamberlain was probably the strongest basketball player...ever.

[Pointguard]

I won't take the time to post the many links out there giving Wilt anywhere from a 48+" vertical leap. There have been eye-witness accounts of Wilt touching the top of the backboard (some 13 feet.) There was an eye-witness account of Wilt touching a hospital ceiling in which the sportswriter estimated that his vertical was at least 42". Wilt was KNOWN to have dunked on a 12 ft rim. We could go on for hours....but only a complete IDIOT would credit Wilt with a 24" vertical.


Yeah, I always heard the top of the backboard thing. 13feet would be the best guess since dunking on a 12 foot rim pretty much means you are at least at 12'9 inches. Since his standing reach wasn't all that, how come you don't hear of anybody touching the top of the backboard these days?

As far as guys these days being superior athelethes I don't hear of faster times, longer broad jumps, longer triple jumps or high jumps despite having superior training and techniques. What are yall saying??? 23 feet back in the 50ies wasn't 23 feet like it is today??? Do yall really think the clocks were slower??? Endurance wise I don't think Shaq in his prime could score 80 points and get 45 rebounds in a game against d leaguers. Over 80 games at 50 ppg and 22 boards that's incredible endurance for anybody who rarely sat down the whole season. Shaq would break down after 20 games if he averaged 20 and 10 if he played the full game in his prime. I don't think any PF or center today is clocking Bill Russell's track feats in the 50's.

[Clifton]

no, you see you can't compare players like that. like you can't compare a fifty years old car with a ferrari and put them in a drag race. and both cars are one of the best in their's era and then you say this old piece of **** is one of the greates?

if you want to compare players, you can compare them based on what they achived...
You can't? Sure you can. You do that, you race them, and then you conclude: "this Ferrari is faster than *that* 50-y.o. car." That is a conclusion you can absolutely draw.

That doesn't mean you've proven the Ferrari is a "better" car. "Better" is not necessarily subjective, but "better" also doesn't strictly have to do with speed. It also doesn't have strictly to do with how far off the ground a basketball player regularly got.

Vertical leap is simply not that important in basketball. Even today. It helps but it won't make or break you. Nobody ever won a title because they jumped 6 inches higher on a breakaway than the guy guarding him. What was Duncan's vertical? LA Shaq's? Recent Kobe's?

Wade and Lebron can jump out of the gym but the reason for their greatness is varied and quickness and strength and ballhandling ability for their size has more to do with it than how high they can jump. Nevermind touch and feel for the game.

[jlauber]

Yeah, I always heard the top of the backboard thing. 13feet would be the best guess since dunking on a 12 foot rim pretty much means you are at least at 12'9 inches. Since his standing reach wasn't all that, how come you don't hear of anybody touching the top of the backboard these days?

As far as guys these days being superior athelethes I don't hear of faster times, longer broad jumps, longer triple jumps or high jumps despite having superior training and techniques. What are yall saying??? 23 feet back in the 50ies wasn't 23 feet like it is today??? Do yall really think the clocks were slower??? Endurance wise I don't think Shaq in his prime could score 80 points and get 45 rebounds in a game against d leaguers. Over 80 games at 50 ppg and 22 boards that's incredible endurance for anybody who rarely sat down the whole season. Shaq would break down after 20 games if he averaged 20 and 10 if he played the full game in his prime. I don't think any PF or center today is clocking Bill Russell's track feats in the 50's.

I have posted on this topic before, but, who was the fastest NFL player ever? It was Bob Hayes, a LEGITIMATE football player (he is in the HOF...and BTW, he AVERAGED 42 yards per play on his 76 TDs in his career), who ran a 10.0 100 meters (and a 9.1 100 yards.) He was playing over 40 years ago.

A few years ago, SI ran an article on Barry Bonds and his longest HR. Yes, it came at the height of his steroid use, and it was measured at 490 feet. Just google Mickey Mantle. He had MANY HRs over 500 feet...including at least one at 565. Not only that, but some of his HRs were stopped by the tops of walls...and would have been estimated at over 600 feet!

Nolan Ryan was clocked by a SLOW radar gun at 101 MPH, in the 8th inning of a game in which he had thrown 162 pitches (yes a SLOW radar gun....there have been estimates that a faster gun would have produced nearly 108 MPH.) That occurred 36 years ago.

Speaking of jumping...Bob Beamon held the world record at 29'-2" inches, set in 1968, for 30 years...and the CURRENT record is 29'-4".

You take guys like Bo Jackson (4.12 40), or Hershel Walker (10.1 100 meters), or Darrell Green (he was clocked at 4.35 in the 40...at age 40), or Deion Sanders (4.18), or OJ Simpson, who was part of the world-record-holding 4x100 relay team)...or Mantle, Reggie Jackson, Frank Howard, JR Richards, Sandy Koufax, ...or Gus Johnson (he was shattering backboards in the 60's), Dr. J, David Thompson, and Connie Hawkins...and so MANY others of previous decades...and give them the same benefits of modern technology, nutrition, medicine, training, etc...and they would be even more remarkable today. AND, that INCLUDES Wilt, who was widely regarded as one of the strongest men in the world, probably the highest leaper of his era, and maybe even the fastest NBA player, ever.

[KobeDaMamba]

and maybe even the fastest NBA player, ever.

:eek: :roll:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Wilt was probably in the 34-38" range for vertical. Come on people -- 24"? :oldlol: Wilt was a world-class athlete in many respects (not just basketball). As noted, he competed in many jumping events at an elite collegiate level. No way was his vert only 24".

[jlauber]

Wilt was probably in the 34-38" range for vertical. Come on people -- 24"? :oldlol: Wilt was a world-class athlete in many respects (not just basketball). As noted, he competed in many jumping events at an elite collegiate level. No way was his vert only 24".

Well, using my math, which is questionable...

Wilt was credited with dunking on a 12 ft rim. He had a standing reach of 9'-6". The basketball is 10" in diameter. He would have to get at least 1" higher to get the ball over the rim.'

12ft. + essentially 1 ft for the ball and clearing the rim...

13 ft. - 9'6" = 3 ft. 6"... or 42 inches.

Of course, there were eye-witness accounts of Wilt touching the top of the backboard, which is 13 ft. So, a MINIMUM leap of 42" seems logical to me.

And, one more time...we are talking about a PART-TIME high-jump CHAMPION...as well as a LONG-JUMPER, and a TRIPLE-JUMPER. As well as a competitive 4x100, 440, and 880 athlete.

[RaceBannana]

did he still kill the mountain lion with bare hands?

yup, he was an amazing pokemon master.

[Fatal9]

winning the high jump competition in the Big Eight track and field championships, clearing the bar at 6-6."

I think people overlook the fact that from his feet to his waist, Wilt was freakishly long. I'd estimate he was about 4.5 feet tall at his waist. High jump is all about getting the lower half of your body over the bar (ie. getting your waist over) and the rest of your body will follow, especially the way the old schoolers jumped.

What he lacked for in his vertical jump, he makes up easily with his long legs. Wilt essentially had a foot higher head start over your typical high jumper because of this. He needs to jump only about 2 feet to get his waist level with the bar. Measuring purely the vertical part of his jump, he needs to jump about ~ 2.5 feet to clear the bar with his waist and then time his legs to cross as well. Notice here, it's all about getting his waist about half a foot over the bar:

http://i30.tinypic.com/18g7f5.jpg

It's great coordination for a man his size, but the freakishly long lower half of his body is what make him a great high jumper, not his vertical (which is quite average). The fact his highest jump was 6'6, only further confirms that his vertical was in the 30-33 inch range, because that's exactly the height you'd expect him to max out at.

LOL @ 42+ inches. Yea, I'm sure Wilt had a higher vertical than MJ and Vince. Makes me wonder how these people function in real life with such little common sense. Nothing worse than stans who go out of their way to exaggerate their favorite athlete's feats. There's no doubt in my mind Russell had a higher vertical leap, he cleared 6'8 while being much shorter and would routinely win jumpballs against him.

And again, a 12 foot dunk would require him to jump about 30-32 inches:


So even if we accept the claim that he dunked on a 12 foot hoop, he would still need only a 30-32 inch vertical to do it. If you go by strictly the math it's 33-35, but his reach when extending with just one hand is more than 9'7, probably about to 9'10-9'11 (stand with both your arms up, and then try extending just one arm up like you would on a dunk and see the 4-5 inch difference in your reach). 24 inches is quite likely for his standing vertical, but if we include running I'd estimate about 29-32 inches, which is still excellent for a man his height.

[Psileas]

did he still kill the mountain lion with bare hands?

Among the various Wilt stories, this isn't among the most exaggerated.
The story about Wilt and the cougar was told, among else, by Jack Ramsey, who wasn't any kind of Wilt promoter. He said that Wilt showed him seemingly recent scratches by what seemed to him to come from a big cat. I don't know whether it was a cougar, but

1. it's not mentioned whether it was a grown up cougar or if it was male or female.
2. Cougars are not anywhere near the real big cats (tigers, lions and jaguars) in terms of size or ferocity. A human of Wilt's size and strength should have no problem killing a cougar, when in an emergency state.
3. Despite that most animals avoid humans, we're still viewed as weak animals for our size (and not really nutritious, either). If some big carnivore attacks a human, there's a good chance that the carnivore is old or sick and asks for some easy pray, so we can't exclude this possibility, either.

[jlauber]

I think people overlook the fact that from his feet to his waist, Wilt was freakishly long. I'd estimate he 4.5 feet tall at his waist. High jump is all about getting your waist over the bar and the rest of your body will follow, especially the way the old schoolers jumped.

What he lacks for in his vertical jump, he makes up easily in his waist height. He needs to jump only about 2 feet to get his waist on level with the bar. Measuring purely the vertical part of his jump, he needs to jump about ~ 2.5 feet to clear the bar with his waist and then time his legs to cross as well. Notice here, it's all about getting his waist about half a foot over the bar:

http://i30.tinypic.com/18g7f5.jpg

It's great coordination for a man his size, but the freakishly long lower half of his body is what make him a great high jumper, not his vertical (which is quite average).

LOL @ 42+ inches. Yea, I'm sure Wilt had a higher vertical than MJ and Vince. Makes me wonder how these people function in real life with such little common sense. Nothing worse than stans who go out of their way to exaggerate their favorite athlete's feats. There's no doubt in my mind Russell had a higher vertical leap, he cleared 6'8 while being much shorter and would routinely win jumpballs against him.

And again, a 12 foot dunk would require him to jump about 30-32 inches:

And it amazes me at those with an anti-Wilt agenda do everything in their power to diminish what he accomplished. They find a season, in which he averages 45 ppg, leads the league in rebounding, sets a FG% record, leads the league in Win Shares, and sets an all-time PER record...and blame HIM for the team losing 49 games (not to mention the fact that their scoring differential was only 2 ppg)...but say nothing of the cast of clowns that he played with (and who collectively shot .412 from the field).

They rip him for a 46-34 game, because he missed 17 FTs. They blame HIM for his losing in that playoff series, despite the fact that his teammates like Greer (shot .325), Jackson (shot .429), Walker (shot .375), Jones (shot .325), and Cunningham (shot .161...yes .161 from the field)...while Chamberlain averaged 28 ppg, 30 rpg, and shot .509...and dominated Russell in the process.

They slam him for leading the league in assists, despite the fact that his TEAM ran away with the best record in the league.

They try to downplay his scoring by saying that he shot about .525 during his "scoring" years...(with one season in which he averaged 33.5 ppg on .540)...which is about the same as Robinson and Olajuwon shot in their BEST seasons, and in leagues that shot MUCH higher percentages. And, of course, they won't mention Kareem having FG% seasons of .539, .529, .518, and .513.

They NEVER mention the fact that Wilt outrebounded EVERYBODY...and most by huge margins.

They NEVER acknowledge that he faced TWELVE HOF centers...and either outplayed, or downright DOMINATED them all. And, when his offensive numbers go down slightly in the post-season, they won't tell you that he faced a HOF center in 112 of his 160 post-season games...or that he obliterated the few centers that he faced in the post-season that were not HOF caliber.

They even slap him for playing nearly 48 mpg in his career (45.2 in his regualr season career, and 47.2 mpg in his 160 post-season games.)

They seldon bring up his defense. AND, they will find a few games in which Russell slightly outplayed him. BUT, they NEVER mention that Wilt held Russell down as well. While Russell routinely played brilliantly in the post-season, even offensively, he seldom matched those post-season numbers against Wilt. In fact, Wilt easily outscored Russell in every post-season series...some by HUGE margins; he outrebounded Russell in every post-season series...some by HUGE margins; and he outshot Russell in virtually every post-season series (that I could find numbers on)...and some by HUGE margins.

They ridicule his stats...despite the fact that he was the ONLY player putting up those monster seasons. Wilt won his scoring titles by as much as nearly 20 ppg. He won his rebounding titles by as much as nearly 5 rpg. He won his FG% titles by as much as .162 (yes... .162 and in another by a .157 margin.)

They attempt to downplay his numbers because of competition...despite the fact that Chamberlain played against TWELVE HOF centers in his career.

They will go out of their way to claim that he "only" won two titles...but god forbid, they mention the fact that he narrowly missed FIVE (even six) more rings, by the slimmest of margins. They blame HIM for those post-season "failures" despite the fact that he almost always had inferior personnel; or the fact that he routinely had an incompetent coach; or that his fellow teammates invariably choked at the worst possible times; or that his opposing teams would routinely hit a "miracle" shot to beat his team; or that, he would dominate his opposing center, but his fellow teammates would play miserably; or that the officials probably cost him one, maybe two rings; or that his team's suffered injuries at the worst possible time.

Nope...it was ALWAYS Chamberlain's fault. He was a "stat-padder". He was a "choker." He was a "loser."

And of course...no way he was a great leaper, despite being a high-jump champ...PART-TIME. Or that he was also a LONG-JUMPER. Or that he was aloso a TRIPLE-JUMPER. Or that he was also a sprinter. Or that he was a competitive 440 and 880 participant. They won't acknlowedge eye-witness accounts, by reputable sports figures, of touching the top of the backboard. Or that the NBA banned the dunking of FTs because legend has it that Chamberlain was capable of doing such a feat with a start from inside the top half of the FT circle. They won't bring up the fact that Wilt was dunking on 12 ft rims in college, that were set up by coach...DURING Wilt's college career.

They will tell you he was not capable of 500 lb bench presses, despite the internet being plastered with accounts of 500+...including eye-witness accounts. Or that Howard Cosell proclaimed him as perhaps the strongest man in the world during an Ali-Wilt interview.

Nope...they will tell you that much of what Wilt was credited with was an impossibility...just like scoring 100 pts in a game; or averaging 50 ppg in a season; or grabbing 55 rebounds in a game; or averaging 27 rpg over the course of a season; or having post-seasons of 30 rpg, or post-seasons over 30 rpg against Russell; or snaring 41 rebounds in a post-season game...against Russell; or averaging 40 ppg in his first seven seasons...COMBINED; or shooting .727 in a season (or .683 in another one); or making 35 straight FGAs; or having 55 of the TOTAL of 61 40-30 games in NBA history; or scoring 70+ points, six times, which is two more than everyone else who has ever played...COMBINED; or that he scored 60+ points in a game 32 times...which is two more than virtually every other player who has ever played...COMBINED (MJ and Kobe are next with five BTW); or that he led the league in assists one year; or that he had seasons that were estimated to have been double-digit blocks...per game; or that there is a recorded game in 1969, in which he blocked 23 shots; or that Harvey Pollack had him with 25 blocks in another game; ...or that he holds 130+ NBA records...and in MANY cases, he holds the next mark or marks, as well. Or that MANY of his records will never be approached, much less broken...

yep...that was Wilt. And ONLY Wilt.

[Fatal9]

^ LMAO, what the hell does any of that have to do with anything I posted? Went from discussing his vertical leap to you bringing out the excuse brigade for his entire career, wtf. Don't tell me you typed that out :oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

^ LMAO, what the hell does any of that have to do with anything I posted? Went from discussing his vertical leap to you bringing out the excuse brigade for his entire career, wtf. Don't tell me you typed that out :oldlol:

:roll: When he feels Wilt's legacy is threatened in any way(even Wilt's sex life :wtf: ), he resorts to spamming the board with irrelevant crap. It's second nature to him.

[DaniloGallinari]

:roll:I can't believe people actually believe the 40+ inch Wilt stories.

Good job post Fatal. Great job.

[PHILA]

http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/wilt/article3.html

Certainly doesn't sound like the athletic freak we've heard so much about. He also had only a 7'2 wingspan which is pretty surprising. And 225lbs is just embarassing. Shaq weighed something like 310lbs at the same age with 10x the athleticism.

For comparison, Shaq had a 7'7 wingspan and 36 vertical.


At peak form he was 290 lbs. By his Lakers years he was 300+. Chamberlain's wingspan was 7'6-7'7 (varying reports on this). He also ran a 4.4 40 yd dash in dress shoes during a KC Chiefs tryout according to Hall OF Fame NFL coach Hank Stram, who also called him the best wide receiver he had ever seen (over Jerry Rice).


As one can see at 0:34 Chamberlain overpowers Thurmond on the offensive glass, without shoving him in the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keLsXWNLCF0



He also was able to control the basketball like no other in NBA history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycO_MYuF89k#t=7m08s

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x48...ick-kaml_sport (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x48zv5_nba-vault-the-1967-sixers-rick-kaml_sport) (Two fake passes at 4:30 mark)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTRjFYwF_RQ#t=2m55s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kocq3D4zd-U#t=4m44s




Not to neglect he would routinely dunk the ball from the foul line for his free throws prior to the rule change, without a long running start as seen in various dunk contests over the years.



Toldeo Blade - Nov 28, 1956 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=340UAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wAAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7302,4611332&dq)

'It seems Wilt has an unorthodox method of shooting free throws. The big guy takes aim at the basket from several feet behind the line. Then he takes about three giant steps, leaves his feet before reaching the line, and stuffs the ball through the hoop.

Under the old rule, it was perfectly legal as Wilt never touched the floor before letting go of the ball. In addition his percentage was fantastic.

"Why, he would have had a free throw percentage of 100," said [Tex] Winter. "He never missed."

Incidentally the rules committee did not mention Chamberlain by name as a reason for the change. The rule change was made, according to the committee, "to prevent freak activity."'



The Miami News - Nov 7, 1962 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=1XYyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2OkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2229,2425147&dq)

'He can clean and jerk a 375-lb. weight, run the quarter mile in 47s, and high-jump over 6-11.'


Sports Illustrated - March 2, 1964 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/2/index.htm)

'The St. Louis Hawks' 6-foot-9, 240-pound Zelmo Beaty, for example, found out recently that he can no longer take Chamberlain's great strength for granted. Unable to slow Wilt down with conventional maltreatment, Beaty tried to yank his shorts off. Chamberlain, who can press 400 pounds without breathing hard, makes it a point to control his temper, primarily because he is genuinely afraid he might kill somebody. Beaty's unethical yank, however, was too much. Wilt flicked an arm, and Beaty flew across the floor like a man shot out of a cannon. Referee Mendy Rudolph rushed over to him and said: "For God's sake, stay down, man. Don't even twitch a muscle." Beaty didn't twitch, and he is still active in the NBA.'





NFL legend Jim Brown publicly stating that he'd rather get in a boxing ring with heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali as opposed to Wilt Chamberlain.


The Evening Independent - Sep 15, 1966 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_dkLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QlcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7163,2399606&dq)

'Chamberlain, like Brown, is a great athlete and seriously considered becoming a fighter a year and a half ago. Wilt and Jimmy have competed against each other in foot races and tests of strength.

"I'd rather fight Clay than Wilt," Brown said. "Chamberlain's too big and he's too strong, but I'm no fighter. I'm saving whatever fighting I've got to do for the Dirty Dozen."'



St. Petersburg Times - Feb 25, 1969 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gPoNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=w3sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7049,3815406&dq)

'Wilt Chamberlain is probably the first giant in history to be able to break 50 seconds in the 440, win a Big Eight high-jump title and be able to set a pick. In fact, he may not be a true giant. Medicine has taken the mystery out of gigantism. Most giants of the past were physical weaklings. Some were 90 percent legs. Wilt Chamberlain, by common consent, is the world's strongest man.'


He was even stronger during his later years in life.

http://i43.tinypic.com/11icsox.gif

http://i48.tinypic.com/mk9pts.jpg


http://i45.tinypic.com/2dqttet.jpg

The Evening Independent - Jan 6, 1967 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TSMoAAAAIBAJ&sjid=S1cDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2229,911381&dq)

"I'd bet you $1,000 I could lift 1,000 pounds," the 76ers singular 7-1 center said, "I have. I've also hand-wrestled two men at the same time and beat them. And there's nothing I'd like to do better than play pro football."



Ocala Star-Banner - Sep 17, 1975 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_R8TAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lAUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6593,3084647&dq)

'As inconspicuously as possible for a 7-foot 1-inch impresario, Wilt Chamberlain stopped by the New York Knicks' office for a quick social hello and now he was waiting for an elevator that would take him upstairs to the Madison Square Garden arena floor. When the elevator doors opened, Wilt stepped back as two husky workmen struggled to wheel a heavily loaded dolly into the corridor. On the dolly there were 10 big cartons of envelopes. For perhaps a minute the workmen pushed and pulled, trying to get the wheels of the dolly across the uneven gap between the elevator and the floor, huffing and puffing, they finally dropped their hands in frustration. "You look," Wilt said, "like you need a little help," His massive arms unencumbered by a chocolate sleeveless shirt, he reached down, grabbed the rope attached to the dolly and lifted the load into the corridor as if it had been a baby in a stroller. The workmen stared and thanked him. Wilt smiled, entered the elevator and the doors closed.

"I never saw anything like that," one of the workmen said. "These carton each weight about 80 pounds. This is an 800 pound load."

That's the approximate weight of four Knick teammates. And if Wilt were to join the Knicks for the approaching National Basketball Association season, he believes he could lift the team into contention with the Boston Celtics for the Atlantic Division title.'




I believe jlauber recently posted a John Havlicek quote on a physical confrontation Chamberlain had with NFL player and part time professional wrestler Big Daddy Lipscomb in the early 60's. Ended with Lipscomb on the floor and Chamberlain muttering, "Nobody messes with Wilt."


http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/09/01/lipscomb.jpg

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/09/01/lipscomb365x445.jpg

[jlauber]

I believe jlauber recently posted a John Havlicek quote on a physical confrontation Chamberlain had with NFL player and part time professional wrestler Big Daddy Lipscomb in the early 60's. Ended with Lipscomb on the floor and Chamberlain muttering, "Nobody messes with Wilt."


Yes. That article was written MANY years ago. I believe it was Sport Magazine, but it may have been an SI article. Unfortunately, I have never been able to find it on the internet. So, if anyone challenges me on it, I have to admit that I have not been able to find it. Still, perhaps one day maybe we will see that Havlicek story again. If anyone else can find it, please post it.

And for those that may not believe me, there are still many more astonishing articles about Chamberlain's staggering power plastered all over the internet.

And, once again, great post Abe.

[DaniloGallinari]

HAHA! Wilt and other journalists talking about fables regarding Wilt's feats and strengths is considered hard proof now?

He ran 4.4 back then, so if we could do it again today, it would probably come out to 4.55+. His standing vert was around 23-26 inches, which isn't bad at all for a tall person, and his running vert might have hit 30.

I don't understand you internet fanboys. You disgust me. You go so far as to make up stupid stories about this guy. It's irritating and nobody actually takes you seriously.

[Psileas]

His standing vert was not 23-26 inches. At least, you could read what I wrote a little before instead of repeating the same story.

Again, play at 1:50:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tt13a6b_uA

This is not a 23-26 inch vertical jump, else his head should be 9-12 inches from the basket, which isn't the case. And it's a standing jump.

A 24-inch vertical for a male athlete, standing or not, would not be worthy of mentioning. Not now, not 100 years ago, not 2,000 years ago. The average male at an athlete's age can jump about 20 inches, without real training. What do you think the average male could jump in the 60's that would make 24 look impressive? Like 12 inches? And 8 for females?

[jlauber]

His standing vert was not 23-26 inches. At least, you could read what I wrote a little before instead of repeating the same story.

Again, play at 1:50:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tt13a6b_uA

This is not a 23-26 inch vertical jump, else his head should be 9-12 inches from the basket, which isn't the case. And it's a standing jump.

A 24-inch vertical for a male athlete, standing or not, would not be worthy of mentioning. Not now, not 100 years ago, not 2,000 years ago. The average male at an athlete's age can jump about 20 inches, without real training. What do you think the average male could jump in the 60's that would make 24 look impressive? Like 12 inches? And 8 for females?

Not only that, but that footage was taken when he was a little over a year removed from major knee surgery, at age 34, somewhere around 300 lbs., and without benefit of a running start. IMHO, take a healthy Wilt, around 22-25 years old, and around 260-270 lbs, and give him a running start, and you tell me what kind of actual vertical leap that he had at his peak?

[jlauber]

Maybe Wilt's vertical was not 48" as he himself claimed. But these clowns that post verticals of 24" or even 30-32" are being ridiculous. The man was a high-jump champ, as well as a long jumper and triple jumper. He was arguably the greatest athlete of all-time for cryingoutloud.

[PHILA]

HAHA! Wilt and other journalists talking about fables regarding Wilt's feats and strengths is considered hard proof now?

He ran 4.4 back then, so if we could do it again today, it would probably come out to 4.55+. His standing vert was around 23-26 inches, which isn't bad at all for a tall person, and his running vert might have hit 30.

I don't understand you internet fanboys. You disgust me. You go so far as to make up stupid stories about this guy. It's irritating and nobody actually takes you seriously.

In other words, the NCAA changed the FT shooting rules for no apparent reason. :applause:

What would be a more accurate assessment of Chamberlain's physical prowess in your opinion?

[PHILA]

Maybe Wilt's vertical was not 48" as he himself claimed. But these clowns that post verticals of 24" or even 30-32" are being ridiculous. The man was a high-jump champ, as well as a long jumper and triple jumper. He was arguably the greatest athlete of all-time for crying out loud.

Indeed the fact that he could extend himself going up beit for a rebound or a slam dunk would be a factor as well. His wingspan also I believe was longer than reported by most at 7'6.

It may, however, be time to quit posting on Chamberlain any longer as none of the detractors will ever give him proper due.

[alexandreben]

:roll: When he feels Wilt's legacy is threatened in any way(even Wilt's sex life :wtf: ), he resorts to spamming the board with irrelevant crap. It's second nature to him.
replace the name "Wilt" with "Shaq", and that's pretty much second nature to ShaqAttack3234:roll: :lol

[jlauber]

Indeed the fact that he could extend himself going up beit for a rebound or a slam dunk would be a factor as well. His wingspan also I believe was longer than reported by most at 7'6.

It may, however, be time to quit posting on Chamberlain any longer as none of the detractors will ever give him proper due.

I have been tempted. However, I can only speak for myself here...I am nearly 56 years old...I SAW Chamberlain play. And I WITNESSED many of his incredible feats.

I find it fascinating, that so many here, that did NOT see Chamberlain play...can make ridiculous comments about him. Statements like he faced 6-6 wimpy white centers. Or that he merely dunked on those helpless white centers. Or that he was a "loser", or a "choker", or a "failure" (yet Olajuwon, who also only played on two title teams, and was involved in EIGHT first round playoff exits is BETTER?) They say that Russell "owned" Wilt. Or they claim that he was far from the mythical athlete that has been written about him since the 50's. I have even read some "expert" opinions that say that Wilt would be a "poor-man's Samuel Dalembert" in TODAY's NBA...despite the fact that Chamberlain was a MUCH better athlete than ANYONE playing in today's NBA.

If posters have an agenda to diminish Chamberlain's career, then I will continue to post the real truth. Whether the other poster's want to believe it, or not.

[MasterDurant24]

HAHA! Wilt and other journalists talking about fables regarding Wilt's feats and strengths is considered hard proof now?

He ran 4.4 back then, so if we could do it again today, it would probably come out to 4.55+. His standing vert was around 23-26 inches, which isn't bad at all for a tall person, and his running vert might have hit 30.

I don't understand you internet fanboys. You disgust me. You go so far as to make up stupid stories about this guy. It's irritating and nobody actually takes you seriously.
Haha... you're a Danillo Gallinari fan...

Sorry. :hammerhead:

[ImmortalD24]

From what I've seen.. Tyson Chandler is a comparable athlete to a young Wilt imo.

[MasterDurant24]

masterdurant24 loves c0ck
Hey, I'm from H-Town, I've never heard of a Danilo Gallinari fan...

[alexandreben]

I have been tempted. However, I can only speak for myself here...I am nearly 56 years old...I SAW Chamberlain play. And I WITNESSED many of his incredible feats.

I find it fascinating, that so many here, that did NOT see Chamberlain play...can make ridiculous comments about him. Statements like he faced 6-6 wimpy white centers. Or that he merely dunked on those helpless white centers. Or that he was a "loser", or a "choker", or a "failure" (yet Olajuwon, who also only played on two title teams, and was involved in EIGHT first round playoff exits is BETTER?) They say that Russell "owned" Wilt. Or they claim that he was far from the mythical athlete that has been written about him since the 50's. I have even read some "expert" opinions that say that Wilt would be a "poor-man's Samuel Dalembert" in TODAY's NBA...despite the fact that Chamberlain was a MUCH better athlete than ANYONE playing in today's NBA.

If posters have an agenda to diminish Chamberlain's career, then I will continue to post the real truth. Whether the other poster's want to believe it, or not.
That's the spirit:applause:

You might look into setting up a vintage website with some othe experienced basketball fans, collect all sources put them into the site(google site is a very good choice by the way)...

[jlauber]

From what I've seen.. Tyson Chandler is a comparable athlete to a young Wilt imo.

How many scoring, rebounding, FG%, and assist titles has Chandler won? How many high-jump championships? How many legitimate offers for heavy-weight boxing title bouts? How many NFL coaches proclaimed that he could be an All-Pro? How many stories have been written which credit him for being one of the strongest men in the world? Did he participate in the high-jump, long-jump, triple-jump, 4x100, 440, 880, and shot-put in college? How many RULES were put in place in a futile attempt to curtail his overall dominance? And does he hold some 130+ NBA records?

[ImmortalD24]

How many scoring, rebounding, FG%, and assist titles has Chandler won? How many high-jump championships? How many legitimate offers for heavy-weight boxing title bouts? How many NFL coaches proclaimed that he could be an All-Pro? How many stories have been written which credit him for being one of the strongest men in the world? Did he participate in the high-jump, long-jump, triple-jump, 4x100, 440, 880, and shot-put in college? How many RULES were put in place in a futile attempt to curtail his overall dominance? And does he hold some 130+ NBA records?
:roll:

[SMoKe0uT]

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af298/SMoKe_U_0uT/wilt-chamberlain1.jpg

[Fatal9]

His standing vert was not 23-26 inches. At least, you could read what I wrote a little before instead of repeating the same story.

Again, play at 1:50:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tt13a6b_uA

This is not a 23-26 inch vertical jump, else his head should be 9-12 inches from the basket, which isn't the case. And it's a standing jump.

A 24-inch vertical for a male athlete, standing or not, would not be worthy of mentioning. Not now, not 100 years ago, not 2,000 years ago. The average male at an athlete's age can jump about 20 inches, without real training. What do you think the average male could jump in the 60's that would make 24 look impressive? Like 12 inches? And 8 for females?
Actually by looking at flight time (the most accurate way to determine vertical leaps from footage), his jump there is 21-22 inches (flight time = .65s - .68s). This assumes no issues with playback, and if anything the footage tends to be a fraction of a second slower. He seems to be going all out there too. Now I know Wilt is in his older days there (though he did retain a lot of his athleticism), but 25-26 inches still sounds about right for his standing vert in his younger days. Based on everything else I've said in the thread, I still see no evidence of him having a max vertical over 30-33 inches, and a standing vertical over 25-27 inches. This is still excellent for a man his size.

[PHILA]

This dunk below coming after he tore his patella tendon (not far off what Greg Oden has suffered in recent years) rehabbing his knee and working hard to come back from what was a career threatening injury in a matter of a few months.

A casual dunk attempt where he nearly bangs his head on the backboard, this in his mid 30's with an artificially repaired knee tendon.

http://i26.tinypic.com/34osba9.gif



50+ inches is just as crazy as the 20 or 24 inch claims. As to note below, he had a tremendous reach and could really extend himself.

http://i26.tinypic.com/2vimon7.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/2dbs4yu.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/20770x1.jpg

[Psileas]

Actually by looking at flight time (the most accurate way to determine vertical leaps from footage), his jump there is 21-22 inches (flight time = .65s - .68s). This assumes no issues with playback, and if anything the footage tends to be a fraction of a second slower. He seems to be going all out there too. Now I know Wilt is in his older days there (though he did retain a lot of his athleticism), but 25-26 inches still sounds about right for his standing vert in his younger days. Based on everything else I've said in the thread, I still see no evidence of him having a max vertical over 30-33 inches, and a standing vertical over 25-27 inches. This is still excellent for a man his size.

Are you sure about the flight time of .65-.68 sec? What program did you use?

Wilt's standing reach was 9'6. 22 inches would mean that his hand should be at 11'4, which is 2 inches below the top of the white square. Also that his head is 1 foot 1 inch below the rim and way below the middle of the net (which is 15-18 inches long, as written at http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1.html?nav=ArticleList).

Check the dunk at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=849_WdqJ8o8#t=3m38s
It's one of Wilt's closest to the rim plays seen from relatively close and Wilt's head looks way above the middle of the net, which, if true, should give him clearly above 27 inches (corresponding to the height of the middle of a typical net). His hand also looks to be above the top of the square, although it's tougher to judge than the head.

[jlauber]

Well, if 32" is good enough for a 7-1 man with a 7-8 wing-span to dunk on a 12 ft, rim with a basketball that has a diameter of 10"...or if is good enough to cause the powers-that-be to outlaw the dunking of FTs...or if it is good enough to allow that said player to touch the top of the backboard...or win a high-jump championship, or long-jump over 22 ft., or to block 25 shots in a game, or over 10 a game over the course of a full-season, or to grab 41 rebounds out of a total of 134 in a '67 playoff game against Russell...or to win multiple rebound titles, while so few other seven-footers have even won one...

then I will accept that Wilt had a 32" vertical leap.

[Fatal9]

Are you sure about the flight time of .65-.68 sec? What program did you use?

Wilt's standing reach was 9'6. 22 inches would mean that his hand should be at 11'4, which is 2 inches below the top of the white square. Also that his head is 1 foot 1 inch below the rim and way below the middle of the net (which is 15-18 inches long, as written at http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1.html?nav=ArticleList).

Check the dunk at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=849_WdqJ8o8#t=3m38s
It's one of Wilt's closest to the rim plays seen from relatively close and Wilt's head looks way above the middle of the net, which, if true, should give him clearly above 27 inches (corresponding to the height of the middle of a typical net). His hand also looks to be above the top of the square, although it's tougher to judge than the head.

Yes, but you have to remember when you extend with just one arm (as you do on a block or dunk), your actual reach becomes much higher than your listed standing reach. Try just putting both or one your arms up without extending, and then right after, completely extend one side of your body like you would for a block, you'll see a difference of 4 or 5 inches in your reach. I don't know if I described that well, but I think you know what I mean. As for flight time, I had the video on my computer, and I just kept cutting off the video until the exact moment when he took off/landed. When you get down to just the block portion (which is under a second), you can scroll back and forth by increments of .01s, so I would say it's pretty accurate.

[DaniloGallinari]

Haha... you're a Danillo Gallinari fan...

Sorry. :hammerhead:

Haha... You're a Durant fan...

Sorry. :hammerhead:


See how stupid you are?

[Psileas]

Yes, but you have to remember when you extend with just one arm (as you do on a block or dunk), your actual reach becomes much higher than your listed standing reach. Try just putting both or one your arms up without extending, and then right after, completely extend one side of your body like you would for a block, you'll see a difference of 4 or 5 inches in your reach. I don't know if I described that well, but I think you know what I mean. As for flight time, I had the video on my computer, and I just kept cutting off the video until the exact moment when he took off/landed. When you get down to just the block portion (which is under a second), you can scroll back and forth by increments of .01s, so I would say it's pretty accurate.

I think standing reach has to do with the highest point that you'll reach with one hand (usually your "strong" one) while standing still (not on tiptoes of course) and that you have the right to extend it as much as you can, because "not extending" is subjective.
Now, if I quote well the next thing you wrote, you mean extend my body as if I'm going up for a block but actually quickly raise on my tiptoes? Yes, that's technically not a jump, but the back side of your foot is still a few inches above the ground. But that's Wilt actually jumping. There are no tricks to reach a lot of inches above your standing reach without jumping. If you meant something else, I can't find any way to see a 4-5 inch difference compared to fully extending my hand. After all, however you want to measure jumping, the same thing applies to everyone.
That's the main reason I preferred mentioning his head's height. The hand's height is more obscure, although it still looks like Wilt's whole palm is above the fingertip of his opponent, who gets more than his whole palm above the rim.

[DaniloGallinari]

Let all the fanboys dream about this guy. 23-26 standing vert is excellent for a 7 footer. Running vert would be around 30-34, which is excellent.

Watch out though. If you talk about Wilt lying about his girl count, these fanboys might harass you with proof...

[MasterDurant24]

Haha... You're a Durant fan...

Sorry. :hammerhead:


See how stupid you are?
But there are tons more Durant fans than Gallinari fans. I was laughing because I never heard of anyone being a fan of him. So excuse me...

[DaniloGallinari]

But there are tons more Durant fans than Gallinari fans. I was laughing because I never heard of anyone being a fan of him. So excuse me...
English might not be your first language, but that's no excuse for your lack of smarts. Wise up, boy.

People can be fans of whichever player they desire. Do they have to ask for your opinion first? How stupid can you be?

You know John Amaechi had fans too right?


You were implying that with me being a Gallinari fan, my opinion on Wilt is worthless? How about your opinion? Chicken shit.

[MasterDurant24]

English might not be your first language, but that's no excuse for your lack of smarts. Wise up, boy.

People can be fans of whichever player they desire. Do they have to ask for your opinion first? How stupid can you be?

You know John Amaechi had fans too right?


You were implying that with me being a Gallinari fan, my opinion on Wilt is worthless? How about your opinion? Chicken shit.
What? Nah nah man. I wasn't saying your opinion was worthless at all. I was just being off topic and acknowledging the rarity of a Gallinari fan. Sorry if I gave you the wrong vibe...:confusedshrug:

[Calabis]

http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/wilt/article3.html

Certainly doesn't sound like the athletic freak we've heard so much about. He also had only a 7'2 wingspan which is pretty surprising. And 225lbs is just embarassing. Shaq weighed something like 310lbs at the same age with 10x the athleticism.

For comparison, Shaq had a 7'7 wingspan and 36 vertical.

I'm reading that article and I believe that was when Wilt was a freshman possibly

The Stilt is most effective simply because of his physical qualities. He stands 7-feet in his sweat socks. Over this frame are spread 225 sinewy pounds. He is almost as agile as a 5-11 playmaker. He can jump 24 inches straight up. Against the varsity he was not bothered noticeably by the new 12-foot lane. His timing on the slightly off-target shots of his mates, in another year, will match that of Bill Russell, the fabulous human funnel of San Francisco. Spectators can actually see his pie-plate hands jam down inside the net.

Dude probably increased his standing vert by the time he entered the NBA

At his athletic peak, he was said to have been measured with a vertical jump of 48-50 inches

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/130817-greatness-revisited-why-wilt-chamberlain-is-the-greatest-nba-player-ever

[MasterDurant24]

I'm reading that article and I believe that was when Wilt was a freshman possibly

The Stilt is most effective simply because of his physical qualities. He stands 7-feet in his sweat socks. Over this frame are spread 225 sinewy pounds. He is almost as agile as a 5-11 playmaker. He can jump 24 inches straight up. Against the varsity he was not bothered noticeably by the new 12-foot lane. His timing on the slightly off-target shots of his mates, in another year, will match that of Bill Russell, the fabulous human funnel of San Francisco. Spectators can actually see his pie-plate hands jam down inside the net.

Dude probably increased his standing vert by the time he entered the NBA

At his athletic peak, he was said to have been measured with a vertical jump of 48-50 inches


No 7 foot man can jump 48 inches. It doesn't happen.

[jlauber]

No 7 foot man can jump 48 inches. It doesn't happen.

And no way anyone can have a vertical of over 50" either, right? And, obviously, 60" would be a physical impossibility.

[MasterDurant24]

And no way anyone can have a vertical of over 50" either, right? And, obviously, 60" would be a physical impossibility.
Randy Moss had a 50 inch vertical; I'm pretty sure somebody can jump higher then he did in his younger days. Or perhaps you're being sarcastic?

[jlauber]

Randy Moss had a 50 inch vertical; I'm pretty sure somebody can jump higher then he did in his younger days. Or perhaps you're being sarcastic?

Well, from what I have read, the world record is 61". If someone can jump that high, why is implausible for a 7-1 high jump champ to have reached 48"?

[Calabis]

Randy Moss had a 50 inch vertical; I'm pretty sure somebody can jump higher then he did in his younger days. Or perhaps you're being sarcastic?

Randy Moss vertical leap is with a couple steps up, his standing was 39inch

* New York Jets rookie Darrelle Revis has a 38-inch vertical jump this year (NY Times, Oct 2007).
* Randy Moss has a vertical leap score of 51" (130 cm), while 265 lbs Jevon Kearse has a best jump of 40" (102 cm).
* The best vertical jump at the NFL Combine is 46" by Gerald Sensabaugh (FS), from North Carolina in 2005 (more NFL combine results).

[MasterDurant24]

Well, from what I have read, the world record is 61". If someone can jump that high, why is implausible for a 7-1 high jump champ to have reached 48"?
Name a 7 footer who has even jumped 42 inches. But s***, maybe it is possible. I just would be suprised if it was.

[MasterDurant24]

Randy Moss vertical leap is with a couple steps up, his standing was 39inch

* New York Jets rookie Darrelle Revis has a 38-inch vertical jump this year (NY Times, Oct 2007).
* Randy Moss has a vertical leap score of 51" (130 cm), while 265 lbs Jevon Kearse has a best jump of 40" (102 cm).
* The best vertical jump at the NFL Combine is 46" by Gerald Sensabaugh (FS), from North Carolina in 2005 (more NFL combine results).

Hmm, didn't know that.

[Psileas]

Sorry, but every time I'm hearing numbers like 61 inches, the only thing I think of is the technique box jumping. I've heard 56 about Kadour Ziani, and this would mean that his head should be 6 inches above the rim, which I've never seen him doing.
The highest I've seen anyone jump is Michael Wilson in his 12-foot dunk. AFAIR, his whole palm was above the 12-foot rim, which may mean that he had jumped about 50-52 inches. Too bad there are not many good films of him.

[jlauber]

Sorry, but every time I'm hearing numbers like 61 inches, the only thing I think of is the technique box jumping. I've heard 56 about Kadour Ziani, and this would mean that his head should be 6 inches above the rim, which I've never seen him doing.
The highest I've seen anyone jump is Michael Wilson in his 12-foot dunk. AFAIR, his whole palm was above the 12-foot rim, which may mean that he had jumped about 50-52 inches. Too bad there are not many good films of him.

Obviously we don't KNOW what Chamberlain was actually capable of. And for those that point out that they have never seen footage of a spectacular dunk or block by Wilt, which would demonstrate a 42"+ leap...of course, we have only seen a relatively small sample of what he accomplished.

Still, aside from the ridiculous OP, in which was inaccurate to begin with, we have several, if not many, accounts of amazing leaps by Wilt. Sonny Hill, who is truly a very respected sports figure, stated that he witnessed Chamberlain touching the top of the backboard. Well, that is KNOWN to be 13 ft. George Kisida, a well-known sports writer who covered Wilt, stated that he measured a leap in a hospital that he measured at at least 42". There have been accounts of Wilt dunking on a 12 ft. rim that mysteriously arose DURING Chamberlain's stay at Kansas.

I have read several books on, or by, Wilt, and in virtually all of them, there are usually several stories of an amazing leap. In one of them, in the early 60's, he made a block that the official called goal-tending. When Wilt's coach protested, the official told him, "what we both just witnessed was physically impossible." Another took place after he retired, and was coaching San Diego. During a practice, the ball got stuck high up in a guide-wire. One-by-one, the players attempted to knock the ball out, but none of them, including 6-11 "jumpin" Caldwell Jones, could reach it. Wilt showed up late, wearling a suit-and-tie, and asked them what was going on. When the players explained what was going on, Wilt took off his dress shoes, and easily tapped the ball down.

There is also a photo in Wilt's first book, which shows him playing volleyball, and in his 30's, and his waist is above the top of the net. I believe in Charley Rosen's book on the '72 Lakers (of which I either listened to, or watched EVERY game that season), he mentions Chick Hearn making the comment that he estimated that LA won over 80% of the center jumps that season (that was in the era when they jumped at the beginning of every quarter.)

There have been posted photos of Kareem and Gilmore, in their college careers, with their heads near rim level...and yet there is footage of Wilt outjumping both of them. Bill Russel hadworld-class high jumping ability, but he seldom outjumped Chamberlain. And speaking of high-jumping, Wilt won a conference title...however, with all of his track events and basketball practice, he could only devote a small portion of his time to that event. His technique was poor, and even his track coach believed that he was capable of close to seven-feet with proper training.

The bottom line, though, was that Wilt was the greatest rebounder, and shot-blocker that the NBA has ever seen. Clearly, his athletic ability was the major factor. He won ELEVEN NBA rebound titles, which is EIGHT more than all of the other 7-0+ players in NBA history...COMBINED (Kareem with ONE, and Motumbo with TWO.) Gilmore won three in the ABA, but even his numbers would not have won in the NBA during those years. And of course, Olajuwon was nowhere near 7-0. In any case, Chamberlain was an amazing seven-footer with incredible athletic ability. Whether his vertical was 48", as he has claimed, or closer to the more realistic 42"...he was certainly jumping much higher than 24". AND, as I have long maintained...no other NBA player has ever reached the apex that Wilt did in his career.

[no pun intended]

And no way anyone can have a vertical of over 50" either, right? And, obviously, 60" would be a physical impossibility.

Anyone? How about Kadour Ziani..60 inch vertical

[jlauber]

Anyone? How about Kadour Ziani..60 inch vertical

I did mention that the record was 61" earlier.

As far as Wilt goes, my best guess, and at his peak...somewhere around 42".

[alexandreben]

Wilt's standing reach with TWO hands is 114", it means he can reach higher with ONE hand, to touch the top of the backboard which's 13ft=156" with BOTH hands, he needs 42" vertical, if he did it with ONE hand, he needs less than 42" vert, with help of running, much less... say around 35" vertical or less.

There4, Wilt only needs around 35" vert to touch the top of the backboard, think about a younger and vertical peak Wilt with only 250lbs, sounds logical to me.

[Psileas]

Anyone? How about Kadour Ziani..60 inch vertical

That would mean that his whole head should be above the rim. I haven't ever seen any film of him doing so. Actually, I can only remember 1 play when his head seems to go above rim, and even this instant was following a two-hand dunk and was taken by a camera placed at a position notoriously bad at showing correct elevation.


Wilt's standing reach with TWO hands is 114", it means he can reach higher with ONE hand, to touch the top of the backboard which's 13ft=156" with BOTH hands, he needs 42" vertical, if he did it with ONE hand, he needs less than 42" vert, with help of running, much less... say around 35" vertical or less.

There4, Wilt only needs around 35" vert to touch the top of the backboard, think about a younger and vertical peak Wilt with only 250lbs, sounds logical to me.

Sorry, this would mean that Wilt could touch the rim without jumping and the only way he would be able to do it would be to stand on his tiptoes. This means that he'd need to jump 35 inches above his extended tiptoes, which I don't buy. It's no different than a 42-inch true vertical leap.

[Johnni Gade]

Thanks for clearing that up

[Calabis]

Anyone? How about Kadour Ziani..60 inch vertical

People this is not a stand still vertical......a vertical leap is what they do in the combine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMY295ezIH0

NBA does one standing vertical leap, then a maximum vertical leap(with a run-up)...no way is Kadour standing still and getting up 60 inches, basically when he ran and jumped his ass would be up by the rim, because he would be getting off the ground anywhere from 6-10 inches more

http://www.nbadraft.net/node/6301

[PHILA]

24 inches is quite likely for his standing vertical, but if we include running I'd estimate about 29-32 inches, which is still excellent for a man his height.

In other words, Chamberlain had an inferior standing vertical AND maximum vertical to the likes of Andrew Bogut (27.5 standing/33.5 max) as well as Yi Jianlian (33 standing/38 max).

An inferior standing vertical to Yao Ming (26 standing).

And of course his vertical was nearly 10 inches (or even more) inferior to Andrew Bynum's (33 standing/37 1-step/Max???). It turns out that Chamberlain did not differ much from Shawn Bradley as a leaper (22 standing/27 max). :facepalm

[PHILA]

On the rise or descent?


http://i26.tinypic.com/vecfaq.jpg

[alexandreben]

In other words, Chamberlain had an inferior standing vertical AND maximum vertical to the likes of Andrew Bogut (27.5 standing/33.5 max) as well as Yi Jianlian (33 standing/38 max).

An inferior standing vertical to Yao Ming (26 standing).

And of course his vertical was nearly 10 inches (or even more) inferior to Andrew Bynum's (33 standing/37 1-step/Max???). It turns out that Chamberlain did not differ much from Shawn Bradley as a leaper (22 standing/27 max). :facepalm
:facepalm :facepalm
:cheers: :cheers:

[alexandreben]

Sorry, this would mean that Wilt could touch the rim without jumping and the only way he would be able to do it would be to stand on his tiptoes. This means that he'd need to jump 35 inches above his extended tiptoes, which I don't buy. It's no different than a 42-inch true vertical leap.
http://i28.tinypic.com/2dbs4yu.jpg
is this photo fake? or just in an angle favors Wilt's reaching length.. he almost can reach the ring

[PHILA]

^^ His standing reach was 9'7.

Even as a 6'11 schoolboy he was not far off.

http://i26.tinypic.com/1564gfq.jpg

[jlauber]

Abe,

Since we don't have VIDEO footage of almost everything Wilt accomplished, it was all a big lie perpetrated by the many friends that Wilt had. He was actually on about 6-5, 175 lbs, and he had a 24" vertical...and in fact, he could not dunk...not even on an 8 ft rim. His high scoring game was actually 10 points, but the scorekeeper accidently had another zero at the end of it. The rest was history.

[Scoooter]

^^ His standing reach was 9'7.

Even as a 6'11 schoolboy he was not far off.

http://i26.tinypic.com/1564gfq.jpg
Damn, his arms are almost as long as my ****.

[PHILA]

Abe,

Since we don't have VIDEO footage of almost everything Wilt accomplished, it was all a big lie perpetrated by the many friends that Wilt had. He was actually on about 6-5, 175 lbs, and he had a 24" vertical...and in fact, he could not dunk...not even on an 8 ft rim. His high scoring game was actually 10 points, but the scorekeeper accidently had another zero at the end of it. The rest was history.
USA Today - Nov 11, 2002 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/2002-11-11-bryant-cover_x.htm)

Indeed, who would believe that a 6'5 200 lb shooting guard named after a steak could once press 300 lbs. That being the same amount of weight that his 7'1 285 lb current starting center mate could press during his ever so short 'peak'. The same man who some here had the audacity to not only declare talented on an all time level (as well as superior to D. Howard), but believed he would give Chamberlain any sort of difficulty at all in the pivot. Some have even declared in the past years on the board players like Francisco Elson would dominate the 60's.


As there is no video footage, I will not believe the testimonies that Jerry West was able to touch the top of the square on the backboard (11'6 height), nor will I believe that decades later a 17 year old Kobe Bryant was able to do the same from a standstill jump during a workout.

[jlauber]

USA Today - Nov 11, 2002 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/2002-11-11-bryant-cover_x.htm)

Indeed, who would believe that a 6'5 200 lb shooting guard named after a steak could once press 300 lbs. That being the same amount of weight that his 7'1 285 lb current starting center mate could press during his ever so short 'peak'. The same man who some here had the audacity to not only declare talented on an all time level (as well as superior to D. Howard), but believed he would give Chamberlain any sort of difficulty at all in the pivot. Some have even declared in the past years on the board players like Francisco Elson would dominate the 60's.


As there is no video footage, I will not believe the testimonies that Jerry West was able to touch the top of the square on the backboard (11'6 height), nor will I believe that decades later a 17 year old Kobe Bryant was able to do the same from a standstill jump during a workout.

Just curious...do we have any VIDEO footage of Shaq's bench press max? This article claims he could only bench 300 lbs.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Just curious...do we have any VIDEO footage of Shaq's bench press max? This article claims he could only bench 300 lbs.
7'1" 285 suggests the center who benched 300 was Andrew Bynum.

Shaq reportedly could bench 465, though I won't claim that's accurate either, but not that hard to believe.

[jlauber]

7'1" 285 suggests the center who benched 300 was Andrew Bynum.

Shaq reportedly could bench 465, though I won't claim that's accurate either, but not that hard to believe.

it was written in 2002. Not hard to believe, though, huh?

Meanwhile, just google Wilt's bench-press. Let me know the numbers.

[ShaqAttack3234]

it was written in 2002. Not hard to believe, though, huh?

The article didn't mention a 7'1", 285 pound center benching 300 those were Abe's words, the article mentioned Kobe benching 300, click on the link. And no article in 2002 would have Shaq at 285 pounds. :oldlol: Shaq was more like 380 then.

[jlauber]

Go ahead and google Wilt's bench press...

and yes, there are eye-witness accounts. BUT, even beyond that...where did ALL of these 500-550 lb numbers come from? One man started ALL of that??? You are being RIDICULOUS if you believe that.

The only doubters are the one's who never witnessed anything Wilt did. They are nerds that say it is physically impossible. Much like almost everything Wilt did...impossible...even though they existed.

[alexandreben]

Just curious...do we have any VIDEO footage of Shaq's bench press max?
good point.. there's no hard evidence to show that Shaq could bench press 465lbs, so, it doesn't exist, just another lie like Wilt could bench 465 in 62':oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

good point.. there's no hard evidence to show that Shaq could bench press 465lbs, so, it doesn't exist, just another lie like Wilt could bench 465 in 62':oldlol:

Uhhh, when did I ever say Shaq could bench press 465? I said it was reported and I said it was plausible. the man was 340-380 and threw around guys like Mutombo, Sabonis ect. like they were kids and Shaq did lift weights a lot in fact a quote from him in response to his weight was "I'm not concerned about the number, the more I lift weights, the higher the number is going to be". In fact, he lifted a lot of weights prior to the 1999-2000 season to get stronger.

Again, I won't claim Shaq can bench press 465 because for all we know he could be exaggerating, but it's not hard to believe considering his size and the strength we saw him display over the course of his 18 year NBA career.

[jlauber]

Uhhh, when did I ever say Shaq could bench press 465? I said it was reported and I said it was plausible. the man was 340-380 and threw around guys like Mutombo, Sabonis ect. like they were kids and Shaq did lift weights a lot in fact a quote from him in response to his weight was "I'm not concerned about the number, the more I lift weights, the higher the number is going to be". In fact, he lifted a lot of weights prior to the 1999-2000 season to get stronger.

Again, I won't claim Shaq can bench press 465 because for all we know he could be exaggerating, but it's not hard to believe considering his size and the strength we saw him display over the course of his 18 year NBA career.

To be honest...the highest that I read was 440 lbs. Not bad, and totally believeable. BUT, Wilt was considered among the strongest men in the world in the 60's. His reported bench-press of around 500 lbs was only about 125 off the world record at the time. And BTW, the entire Steeler O-Line, and with the help of steroids, were capable of 500 lb bench presses in the early 70's...and I don't ever recall any of them being compared to Chamberlain.

[JJ81]

Who cares... look at the ****ing numbers he put up!

[Avon Barksdale]

I don't know why people are bumping all these old ass threads today, but anyway...

I have a really, really, extremely hard time believing Wilt could bench even 400 lbs, let alone 465 or 500. There are always some nebulous "witnesses" that saw him do it, but common sense says he was probably never anywhere near that.

I've lifted weights for a long time, and while some people are clearly significantly stronger/weaker than they look, you can pretty much always get a general idea of someone's strength by looking at them. I've seen roughly 6 or 7 guys bench 400+ unequiped (and all lifted just slightly over 400) and every single one was massive with huge arms. One of them is a former Mr. America. To think that a 7+ foot guy with a relatively skinny frame could do it just seems absurd. The world record in 1967 was 615 lbs. In 1953 the record was 500 lbs. These are guys that train exclusively for lifting massive weights for very low reps, and are genetic freaks and naturally very big/strong guys with stocky builds. The idea that a lanky 7'2" guy who trains for basketball could put up those numbers is just stupid in my opinion.

Ryan Kennelly holds the current world record and he's 6'2", massive, and is a stocky guy with short arms. At 6'2" he's one of the tallest competitive power lifters. Tall guys struggle with pushing movements especially. The unequiped world record to this day, undoubtedly with steroids and exponentially more competition and better training and nutrition, is only 715 lbs if I remember correctly. I can believe some of Wilt's track claims, and they have a lot more evidence, but Wilt benching 465 at 59? ***** please. Power lifters generally peak around 40 years old. It's unlikely even an elite power lifter could put up 465 at that age even if they continued to train rigorously.

The guy was obviously a great athlete and a freak of nature, but some of these claims are absurd. Funny how these type of claims are never backed up in the age of youtube and video cameras. I don't see anyone turning water into wine, parting seas, or walking on water (unless it's frozen) in the modern age. I also don't see any lanky 7 footers with lanky builds putting up huge numbers on bench press, let alone at 60 years old. Strange, isn't it?

[Avon Barksdale]

Does anyone really believe that this guy, at his peak, training specifically for power lifting, at 5'9" 300 lbs, couldn't lift more than a 59 year old Wilt Chamberlain?

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/12/09/hepburn350x249.jpg

http://www.myclassiclyrics.com/artist_biographies/images/Wilt_Chamberlain_Biography.jpg

Please...

[OMG its McLovin]

On the forums page, when this is the last updated topic, it says

"Wilt Chamberlain: 24 Inch...."

It does not say vertical. And that is not the first word that came to mind before I entered into the NBA forum.

:roll:

Seriously though Chamberlain was extremely strong and I highly doubt he had a 24 inch vertical. Shaq weighs like 300 pounds and can jump higher than that. Also Chamberlain's numbers were spectacular, 37ppg as a rookie, 50ppg in a season, 100 point game, 55 rebounds in a game, 27.2 rbpg in a season, 72% fg in a season and many many more records. I do understand that he was from a completely different era than than Jordan's era and onwards but still, if Jordan, Kobe or Shaq were in Wilt's era, they would only see slightly better results imo. Chamberlain imo is the best player of all time tied with Kareem. A bit hard to decide because Kareem had his deadly skyhook, 38.2k points, 6 MVP titles, 3rd in total rebounds with 17.4k, had a MUCH better free throw and had more blocks. Also nobody post Jordan is the best because I'm so damn tired of Jordan being the most overrated player in history. Go ask a random who is the best player in NBA history, I bet they'll say Jordan without knowing the names Kareem,Wilt,Russell,Bird,Magic Johnson or Malone.

[Chalkmaze]

Does anyone really believe that this guy, at his peak, training specifically for power lifting, at 5'9" 300 lbs, couldn't lift more than a 59 year old Wilt Chamberlain?

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/12/09/hepburn350x249.jpg

http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/175/226/225/1rY1uWlg47pBJHn.jpg

:no:

[alexandreben]

Earl Boykins bench press is 315lbs! This weeks spotlight is on Earl Boykins bench press. Earl Boykins has a huge bench press for his weight. At a tiny 133lbs.
http://chzupnextinsports.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/funny-sports-pictures-boykins-oneal-awwwww-cute.jpg

[Avon Barksdale]

:no:

Ok...so maybe that's a more comparable picture...and he looks like Dwight Howard/Karl Malone/Kevin Willis/Alonzo Mourning/Ben Wallace/Shaq...after they fasted for 3 months.

To think that this guy could more or less equal elite, >6 foot contemporary power lifters that trained specifically for power lifting is ridiculous, let alone at 59 years old. 6'2" is really tall for a power lifter. 7'0"+ is comical.

He was a very strong guy, no doubt, but these bench press claims are stupid.

Then again, Wilt was a mountain of a man that could palm a medicine ball, walk on water, jump over the moon, wrestle mountain lions, dunk from the half court line, run a 3 second 100 m, sleep with 45 women a day, swim the English channel 8 times in a row, finish an entire keg in one keg stand, and shoot fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his ass*. :hammerhead:

*as long as no one is there to video tape it

[La Frescobaldi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpVZS26BUs

Wilt at the top on a vertical jump

[Richesly]

Saying he can jump 2 feet just shows the standards they had then...doesnt mean its all he could do. Half of ISH can jump 24 inches im sure. But half of ISH isnt getting up enough to be an NCAA highjump champ as a hobby or to long jump 22 feet as he has proven capable of.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/images/nba/1999/chamberlain/wilt2.jpg
http://www.explorepahistory.com/images/ExplorePAHistory-a0l0v1-a_349.jpg

That is not a man with a 24 inch vertical.


bro he has his legs bent to his chest.

[Richesly]

bro he has his legs bent to his chest.

put his legs down, looks like 2 feet.

[Straight_Ballin]

i laughed so hard on that one i almost felt of a chair. i didn't notice earlier that he sad that he's gay to himself
:roll: :roll:

Lol don't worry, he'll just never use that account again like every other high pitched squeaky voice teen on here that has 5 accounts but should have just realized they don't belong postin on ANY forum a long time ago.

[Marchesk]

Reading through this old thread, and the posters maintaining that Wilt was only in the 24-32" vertical range turned out to be wrong.

Somewhere between the Wilt skeptics and the legends is the truth about what Wilt could do physically. I put his vertical at minimum 36", and it's quite reasonable to think he could actually have reached the top of the backboard. So as high as 42".

Interesting to note that the anti-Wilt stans no longer debate his athleticism. No they primarily focus on weak era, slow white guys, and perceived lack of skill (moves in the post relative to modern players).

[Deuce Bigalow]

Reading through this old thread, and the posters maintaining that Wilt was only in the 24-32" vertical range turned out to be wrong.

Somewhere between the Wilt skeptics and the legends is the truth about what Wilt could do physically. I put his vertical at minimum 36", and it's quite reasonable to think he could actually have reached the top of the backboard. So as high as 42".

Interesting to note that the anti-Wilt stans no longer debate his athleticism. No they primarily focus on weak era, slow white guys, and perceived lack of skill (moves in the post relative to modern players).
This is what a 42" vertical means for Wilt

Wilt- 7'1" = 85"

+ 42" vertical

85" + 42" = 126"

126" = 10'6", meaning he could his head half a foot above the rim. Yet we have zero images of Wilt's head near the rim, let alone above it.

[Marchesk]

This is what a 42" vertical means for Wilt

Wilt- 7'1" = 85"

+ 42" vertical

85" + 42" = 126"

126" = 10'6", meaning he could his head half a foot above the rim. Yet we have zero images of Wilt's head near the rim, let alone above it.

From the SF college game video where he goes way up to block a shot, I screen printed it, and then drew a straight line from the rim that bisected his left shoulder and part of his head, which was titled away from the rim, since he was reaching with his left arm to block the shot. I put the tip of his fingers between 12'4" to 12'8", so about 12'6". And he comes down with the ball.

So that's not true. There are a couple photos were his head is right around the rim level. There is a video from the behind the backboard where he is easily blocking a shot where the top of the ball is around 12'4".

Anyway, 10'6" means that six inches of his head is above the rim, not that his entire head is six inches above the rim.

[Kblaze8855]

You cant use "Where is the footage" for a guy who peaked as an athlete late 50s early 60s. Might as well deny the era even happened if you only accept what is proven. We have zero footage of a Wilt 40 point game but he had like 300 and dozens were recorded.

You take that as evidence they didnt happen?

Jumping 40 inches for a college highjump champ is not shocking. Not in 1956 or 2006. It really isnt special. Its not even that unusual for bigmen. I mean...its unusual in that not many can do it. Its not unusual to an extent that its absurd to question. Ive seen Dan Gadzuric get headlevel off like 2 steps on a putback dunk over Kenyon Martin. Antionio Mcdyess had a 42 inch one step vertical according to the NBA and harder to believe(but NBA claimed from a combine test) 47 inch vertical on the run.

Larry Nance, Shawn Kemp, Dwight, Blake, Tyrus thomas, and so on....

Bigmen can get up there. Especially ones built like young Wilt. Lakers Wilt was getting up like few today. When he was kinda lanky? I can see him flying.

[secund2nun]

Wilt= overrated feasting on a primarily white unathletic scrub league.

[Poetry]

Yet we have zero images of Wilt's head near the rim, let alone above it.

Seems to be at around rim level here, with what looks like relative ease. Given how long his arms are, there was probably no reason for him to jump to his peak potential. He's not a 6'1 guard that needs to get as much air as possible. Look at his arms, any higher and he would overshoot the basket on shots and dunks.

http://thumbs.boa.ulximg.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/article/images/wilt_cover.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

Seems to be at around rim level here, with what looks like relative ease. Given how long his arms are, there was probably no reason for him to jump to his peak potential. He's not a 6'1 guard that needs to get as much air as possible. Look at his arms, any higher and he would overshoot the basket on shots and dunks.

http://thumbs.boa.ulximg.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/article/images/wilt_cover.jpg
Yeah and that #5 defender is almost at net level while being 3 inches off the ground, he must be like 8'3"...

[RRR3]

Yeah and that #5 defender is almost at net level while being 3 inches off the ground, he must be like 8'3"...
Still salty Wilt is 10x better than Brickbe I see

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Cy-KHqqt_YI/UfAajnUOISI/AAAAAAAAEgc/uorg5pA4f54/s800/Sequence%252001.Still001.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uUXpXjGoZok/UfAajkkJM8I/AAAAAAAAEgg/To_gD-YiPJo/s800/Sequence%252001.Still003.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

Still salty Wilt is 10x better than Brickbe I see
5>2

[RoundMoundOfReb]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Cy-KHqqt_YI/UfAajnUOISI/AAAAAAAAEgc/uorg5pA4f54/s800/Sequence%252001.Still001.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uUXpXjGoZok/UfAajkkJM8I/AAAAAAAAEgg/To_gD-YiPJo/s800/Sequence%252001.Still003.jpg
Damn that's a long arm lol. What was his wingspan?

[CavaliersFTW]

Damn that's a long arm lol. What was his wingspan?
7 feet 8 inches

[Psileas]

Wilt as a High Schooler:

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-U1241523.jpg?size=67&uid=4cb4dd6c-398e-4321-a015-75c1b72cbddd

[-23-]

Wilt as a High Schooler:

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-U1241523.jpg?size=67&uid=4cb4dd6c-398e-4321-a015-75c1b72cbddd

That looks like 24" vertical, extend his legs and it's nothing special.

[Marchesk]

That looks like 24" vertical, extend his legs and it's nothing special.

Dude, can't you tell that's a 12 foot rim? :lol

Couldn't help myself, sorry Wilt stans.

If I had a time machine, I'd go back to Wilt's college days, and record him dunking at that 12 foot rim and then come back and upload that shit to youtube, and then tell all the anti-Wilts to bite me.

[LAZERUSS]

This is what a 42" vertical means for Wilt

Wilt- 7'1" = 85"

+ 42" vertical

85" + 42" = 126"

126" = 10'6", meaning he could his head half a foot above the rim. Yet we have zero images of Wilt's head near the rim, let alone above it.

Duece Bigalow = General Custer at Little Bighorn.

http://www.manataka.org/images/Little_Big_Horn_Battle.jpg

[Greg Oden 50]

Overrated
YES.............LEBRON JAMES IS OVERRATED :rockon:

[Psileas]

:oldlol: at idiots looking at his feet instead of his head. Last time I checked, Wilt wasn't ever 8 feet tall, so jumping 24 inches high wouldn't bring his head anywhere near that level.

[Greg Oden 50]

Wilt= overrated feasting on a primarily white unathletic scrub league.

no one is more overrated than leflop James,who is invisible 6 of 7 games in 2013 Finals :roll:

[Greg Oden 50]

5>2


NO............
KOBE ONLY WINS 2 RINGS BY HIMSELF :banana:

[LAZERUSS]

You cant use "Where is the footage" for a guy who peaked as an athlete late 50s early 60s. Might as well deny the era even happened if you only accept what is proven. We have zero footage of a Wilt 40 point game but he had like 300 and dozens were recorded.

You take that as evidence they didnt happen?

Jumping 40 inches for a college highjump champ is not shocking. Not in 1956 or 2006. It really isnt special. Its not even that unusual for bigmen. I mean...its unusual in that not many can do it. Its not unusual to an extent that its absurd to question. Ive seen Dan Gadzuric get headlevel off like 2 steps on a putback dunk over Kenyon Martin. Antionio Mcdyess had a 42 inch one step vertical according to the NBA and harder to believe(but NBA claimed from a combine test) 47 inch vertical on the run.

Larry Nance, Shawn Kemp, Dwight, Blake, Tyrus thomas, and so on....

Bigmen can get up there. Especially ones built like young Wilt. Lakers Wilt was getting up like few today. When he was kinda lanky? I can see him flying.

This.

And I would like to add...in the very limited footage that we do have, Chamberlain IS blocking shots and dunking. But, I guess he should have been aware that ESPN would show highlights nightly some 30-40 years later, and touched the top of the backboard before depositing the ball in the basket, or blocked those shots with his head and chest instead of easily blocking them with his 7-8 wingspan.

I still get a kick out of one Chamberlain-basher that used to routinely post here, who had footage of Wilt running down a shooter from behind, and blocking the shot...and in it, Wilt is only a couple of feet off the ground. Of course, he failed to mention the obvious...that Wilt blocked the shot with his arm extended parallel to the ground. Had Chamberlain leaped as high as he could, he likely would have watched the shot go under his armpit and into the basket.

[CavaliersFTW]

God ISH used to be retarded when it came to Wilt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62dMFki2pts

[DatAsh]

:oldlol: at idiots looking at his feet instead of his head. Last time I checked, Wilt wasn't ever 8 feet tall, so jumping 24 inches high wouldn't bring his head anywhere near that level.

His head looks to be rim level there.

[3ball]

http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/wilt/article3.html

Certainly doesn't sound like the athletic freak we've heard so much about. He also had only a 7'2 wingspan which is pretty surprising. And 225lbs is just embarassing. Shaq weighed something like 310lbs at the same age with 10x the athleticism.

For comparison, Shaq had a 7'7 wingspan and 36 vertical.
what am i missing here - the link just goees to the sporting news homepage - i don't see any article on wilt.

[CavaliersFTW]

what am i missing here - the link just goees to the sporting news homepage - i don't see any article on wilt.
It's been taken down. But there used to be an article written in the 1950's about Wilt when he was in high school that stated he could "jump 24" straight up" and this was used by Wilt's detractors here as evidence that Wilt, one of the greatest athletes that ever existed, had a "max-vert" of only 24 inches high (4 inches less than Larry Bird).

Also in the article was a highly questionable indication of Wilt's armspan, it cited it as "7 feet 2 inches" ... however a few years later both video evidence (his armspan actually being measured on film) and articles comparing his armspan to Kareem Abdul-Jabbars surfaced that proved in reality it was 92 inches, or 7 feet 8 inches. Also it cited his weight at 225lbs... even though this was his high school weight, it didn't matter, all of this was used as evidence against testimony of his strength size and athleticism which was all deemed by ISH's band of Wilt detractors to be nothing but a myth not to be taken seriously.

In hindsight, this shit is funny as hell to read, but at the time it was frustrating because not much video or evidence to suggest otherwise existed.

[sundizz]

Serious question. Does anybody on here think Wilt could hit (touch) his head on the bottom of a 10 foot rim? From everything I've seen....it seems questionable at best. If he could that's a 34 inch vert (if he's 7'2 with his shoes on).

[CavaliersFTW]

Serious question. Does anybody on here think Wilt could hit (touch) his head on the bottom of a 10 foot rim? From everything I've seen....it seems questionable at best. If he could that's a 34 inch vert (if he's 7'2 with his shoes on).
1. Yes, quite easily. Though why would he want his head to hit the ring? He's not going to be trying to get his head near it, so given that only 2% of his career field goals exists on film, and even less of his overall career, opportunities to see his head at maximum height near the rim are going to be slim to none. Only a few pics and clips exist of him jumping high in close vicinity of the ring, but nevertheless they definitely exist and don't really leave room for reasonable doubt.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4sqgfvu0TwI/VCJUe3ra60I/AAAAAAAAFcA/Y1vyTUqYHJU/s800/1111.JPG

2. Not that this has to do with your overall point you are trying to make, but Converse All Star shoes are not 1 inch thick, those type of basketball shoes back then were wafer thin compared to modern shoes. They were probably more like a half inch thick.

[DatAsh]

1. Yes, quite easily. Though why would he want his head to hit the ring? He's not going to be trying to get his head near it, so given that only 2% of his career field goals exists on film, and even less of his overall career, opportunities to see his head at maximum height near the rim are going to be slim to none. Only a few pics and clips exist of him jumping high in close vicinity of the ring, but nevertheless they definitely exist and don't really leave room for reasonable doubt.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4sqgfvu0TwI/VCJUe3ra60I/AAAAAAAAFcA/Y1vyTUqYHJU/s800/1111.JPG

2. Not that this has to do with your overall point you are trying to make, but Converse All Star shoes are not 1 inch thick, those type of basketball shoes back then were wafer thin compared to modern shoes. They were probably more like a half inch thick.

I love the headlines on that.

[CavaliersFTW]

I love the headlines on that.
ISH headline worthy :lol

[Cobra Kai]

Wilt is a legend.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1002/rare.wilt.chamberlain.photos/images/wilt-jordan-3130400.jpg

[La Frescobaldi]

1. Yes, quite easily. Though why would he want his head to hit the ring? He's not going to be trying to get his head near it, so given that only 2% of his career field goals exists on film, and even less of his overall career, opportunities to see his head at maximum height near the rim are going to be slim to none. Only a few pics and clips exist of him jumping high in close vicinity of the ring, but nevertheless they definitely exist and don't really leave room for reasonable doubt.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4sqgfvu0TwI/VCJUe3ra60I/AAAAAAAAFcA/Y1vyTUqYHJU/s800/1111.JPG

2. Not that this has to do with your overall point you are trying to make, but Converse All Star shoes are not 1 inch thick, those type of basketball shoes back then were wafer thin compared to modern shoes. They were probably more like a half inch thick.


The articles in that old rag were most excellent.

I happen to have a few copies of that magazine; PBH was a welcome change from having Bob Ryan's Unceasing Stream of Celtics Vomit forced down your throat.

Here's some of what the writers at PBH were saying about Chamberlain, not in that copy but in 1968:

..... "Did he average 50 points in a game for a whole season? Ridiculous. He shot too much and 'loafed' on defense. Did he (after of a couple of years) pay more attention to defense? See, he wasn't scoring the way he should. Did he play every minute of every game? Silly and selfish, because he'd be more effective with a rest once in a while. Did he take (and make) fadeaway jump shots? Stupid, because he should turn in toward the basket. Did he go to the basket? Then his field goal percentage shouldn't count, and besides, he was charging all the time and they wouldn't call it. Did Bill Russell hang back after clearing the defensive board and triggering a fast break? Great for Russell, who was a wizard and a genius. Did Wilt do the same thing (only to have the fast break misfire on the way to the basket)? What a lazy player!
And so it went, for the better part of six years.
The truth of course, was quite different and not all mysterious. It all had to do with personnel.
The Celtics had great teams, balanced and deep and well-rounded.
Chamberlain seldom had comparable material to play with. When he had good teammates, his team gave Boston a good battle and overwhelmed everyone else. When he didn't, defeats were inescapable.
In the first couple of seasons, when Wilt was raising scoring totals beyond anyone's fantasies, he was acting on the orders of his owner, Eddie Gottlieb. His employer wanted him to play every second and to score as much as he could. That was exactly what he did. If it led to an unbalanced type of game, it wasn't Wilt's demand that was being met, but the owner's."
cont.......

[La Frescobaldi]

continued.........
".........Later when Paul Arizin retired and the team moved to San Francisco, Wilt was surrounded by a weak-shooting cast. In that circumstance, if he didn't do most of the shooting, the team's chances of scoring were reduced. If he (or his coaches) had listened to the criticism then, they would have been going against their own best interests - which was, of course, exactly what the critics on other teams wanted.
........ The big change in him - the thing that has been triggering stories about 'the new Chamberlain' for three years - is his defensive involvement. He has mastered the "Russell-style" defense, which means blocking shots on those who drive in, absolute control of defensive rebounds, a quick pass out to start the fast break, and bruising man-to-man defense against the opposing center.
To some extent, this represents skills gradually acquired with experience. But to a larger extent, it relects altered circumstances. Wilt can now afford to concentrate on the defensive half of the floor, becuase his team has others who can score, and becuase his present employers want him to play this way. While he is not as quick, relexively, as Russell and probably not as cerebral in aanalysis of moves, he is so much stronger and bigger- and quick enough - that he now plays Russell's game more effectively than Russell himself.........."

**************************

Which is 180 degrees out of phase with people who have only read articles from the Celtic fan-base.
The reality was, John Havlicek and Sam Jones were increasingly important to Boston's chances and the whole country knew that.
The reality was, Chamberlain demolished Russell in almost every game from '66 on, and it was there for everybody to see on national tv.
The reality was very different from the fantasy land of Ryan and those guys, and every fan in the country who wasn't a shameless Boston homer knew it at the time.

Which is yet another reason why people who believe that drivel from Bill Simmons should understand that Simmons consciously and deliberately avoided printing anything that supported Chamberlain and focused solely on leading the reader to Russell's side.
And that. is utterly disgraceful in a writer - especially one as well-known as Simmons.

[Psileas]

continued.........
".........Later when Paul Arizin retired and the team moved to San Francisco, Wilt was surrounded by a weak-shooting cast. In that circumstance, if he didn't do most of the shooting, the team's chances of scoring were reduced. If he (or his coaches) had listened to the criticism then, they would have been going against their own best interests - which was, of course, exactly what the critics on other teams wanted.
........ The big change in him - the thing that has been triggering stories about 'the new Chamberlain' for three years - is his defensive involvement. He has mastered the "Russell-style" defense, which means blocking shots on those who drive in, absolute control of defensive rebounds, a quick pass out to start the fast break, and bruising man-to-man defense against the opposing center.
To some extent, this represents skills gradually acquired with experience. But to a larger extent, it relects altered circumstances. Wilt can now afford to concentrate on the defensive half of the floor, becuase his team has others who can score, and becuase his present employers want him to play this way. While he is not as quick, relexively, as Russell and probably not as cerebral in aanalysis of moves, he is so much stronger and bigger- and quick enough - that he now plays Russell's game more effectively than Russell himself.........."

**************************

Which is 180 degrees out of phase with people who have only read articles from the Celtic fan-base.
The reality was, John Havlicek and Sam Jones were increasingly important to Boston's chances and the whole country knew that.
The reality was, Chamberlain demolished Russell in almost every game from '66 on, and it was there for everybody to see on national tv.
The reality was very different from the fantasy land of Ryan and those guys, and every fan in the country who wasn't a shameless Boston homer knew it at the time.

Which is yet another reason why people who believe that drivel from Bill Simmons should understand that Simmons consciously and deliberately avoided printing anything that supported Chamberlain and focused solely on leading the reader to Russell's side.
And that. is utterly disgraceful in a writer - especially one as well-known as Simmons.

Great additions. And what you mentioned at the end is the reason is why I told some time ago that we consider even the little Wilt vs Russell footage that exists and asked who in people's own eyes outplayed the other.
What exists of Wilt vs Russell is:

1) 1 half from Game 4 of the 1964 Finals
2) 1 half from Game 4 of the 1967 Division Finals
3) The 1969 ASG (the only game that fully exists)
4) 1 quarter from Game 7 of the 1969 Finals

Most admitted that Wilt was usually outplaying Russell in these clips. And yet Russell's teams still won every single one of the games shown, which isn't even a fair proportion compared to reality when Wilt's teams won 2 out of 5 games vs Russell's.

Btw, I wonder, is there any single NBA game of Wilt available now when his team wins, apart from Game 5 of the '72 Finals and the '72 ASG?

[DatAsh]

continued.........
".........Later when Paul Arizin retired and the team moved to San Francisco, Wilt was surrounded by a weak-shooting cast. In that circumstance, if he didn't do most of the shooting, the team's chances of scoring were reduced. If he (or his coaches) had listened to the criticism then, they would have been going against their own best interests - which was, of course, exactly what the critics on other teams wanted.
........ The big change in him - the thing that has been triggering stories about 'the new Chamberlain' for three years - is his defensive involvement. He has mastered the "Russell-style" defense, which means blocking shots on those who drive in, absolute control of defensive rebounds, a quick pass out to start the fast break, and bruising man-to-man defense against the opposing center.
To some extent, this represents skills gradually acquired with experience. But to a larger extent, it relects altered circumstances. Wilt can now afford to concentrate on the defensive half of the floor, becuase his team has others who can score, and becuase his present employers want him to play this way. While he is not as quick, relexively, as Russell and probably not as cerebral in aanalysis of moves, he is so much stronger and bigger- and quick enough - that he now plays Russell's game more effectively than Russell himself.........."

**************************

Which is 180 degrees out of phase with people who have only read articles from the Celtic fan-base.
The reality was, John Havlicek and Sam Jones were increasingly important to Boston's chances and the whole country knew that.
The reality was, Chamberlain demolished Russell in almost every game from '66 on, and it was there for everybody to see on national tv.
The reality was very different from the fantasy land of Ryan and those guys, and every fan in the country who wasn't a shameless Boston homer knew it at the time.

Which is yet another reason why people who believe that drivel from Bill Simmons should understand that Simmons consciously and deliberately avoided printing anything that supported Chamberlain and focused solely on leading the reader to Russell's side.
And that. is utterly disgraceful in a writer - especially one as well-known as Simmons.

You should post more of this stuff.

[jongib369]

1. Yes, quite easily. Though why would he want his head to hit the ring? He's not going to be trying to get his head near it, so given that only 2% of his career field goals exists on film, and even less of his overall career, opportunities to see his head at maximum height near the rim are going to be slim to none. Only a few pics and clips exist of him jumping high in close vicinity of the ring, but nevertheless they definitely exist and don't really leave room for reasonable doubt.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4sqgfvu0TwI/VCJUe3ra60I/AAAAAAAAFcA/Y1vyTUqYHJU/s800/1111.JPG

2. Not that this has to do with your overall point you are trying to make, but Converse All Star shoes are not 1 inch thick, those type of basketball shoes back then were wafer thin compared to modern shoes. They were probably more like a half inch thick.
Why would anyone in their right mind want to almost accidentally smash their head on that thing when you have a wingspan longer than Yaos and a standing reach that's just a half inch smaller?

[CavaliersFTW]

http://youtu.be/UAmuvwsDKBk

Some of the many new clips to be found in the next revision of "Wilt scouting tool".

Something like 10-15 new field goals have been found that will be added (I didn't count yet, but there's a handful of new ones)

I'm going to add about 5 to 6 minutes more footage to the "physical tools and athleticism" preface (which this is a short preview of) which includes as you can see, just a short preview of his defensive prowess.

I'm thinking about adding his passing highlights to this next revision. Which means it could finally cover the full range of Wilt's offensive capability and reveal why defenses had to be covering him a certain way (scoring highlights alone don't reveal how dangerous he was on offense). The full court outlet passes video I recently uploaded was just a sample of organizing/categorizing a specific type of pass. So expect this next version to be the first hour + long Wilt 'highlight' video ever made.

Anyways, check out that jump recovery, 290-300lbs and he would block a shot or attempt to, and recover almost immediately and be right up over your next shot in a fraction of a second. Terrifying stuff if you are trying to get inside and score. He also looks physical as **** on defense, like he's not concerned about landing on you if you are dumb enough to get underneath him.

[jongib369]

http://youtu.be/UAmuvwsDKBk

Some of the many new clips to be found in the next revision of "Wilt scouting tool".

Something like 10-15 new field goals have been found that will be added (I didn't count yet, but there's a handful of new ones)

I'm going to add about 5 to 6 minutes more footage to the "physical tools and athleticism" preface (which this is a short preview of) which includes as you can see, just a short preview of his defensive prowess.

I'm thinking about adding his passing highlights to this next revision. Which means it could finally cover the full range of Wilt's offensive capability and reveal why defenses had to be covering him a certain way (scoring highlights alone don't reveal how dangerous he was on offense). The full court outlet passes video I recently uploaded was just a sample of organizing/categorizing a specific type of pass. So expect this next version to be the first hour + long Wilt 'highlight' video ever made.

Anyways, check out that jump recovery, 290-300lbs and he would block a shot or attempt to, and recover almost immediately and be right up over your next shot in a fraction of a second. Terrifying stuff if you are trying to get inside and score. He also looks physical as **** on defense, like he's not concerned about landing on you if you are dumb enough to get underneath him.
Where did you find the clip at 2:14-15?

[fpliii]

http://youtu.be/UAmuvwsDKBk

Some of the many new clips to be found in the next revision of "Wilt scouting tool".

Something like 10-15 new field goals have been found that will be added (I didn't count yet, but there's a handful of new ones)

I'm going to add about 5 to 6 minutes more footage to the "physical tools and athleticism" preface (which this is a short preview of) which includes as you can see, just a short preview of his defensive prowess.

I'm thinking about adding his passing highlights to this next revision. Which means it could finally cover the full range of Wilt's offensive capability and reveal why defenses had to be covering him a certain way (scoring highlights alone don't reveal how dangerous he was on offense). The full court outlet passes video I recently uploaded was just a sample of organizing/categorizing a specific type of pass. So expect this next version to be the first hour + long Wilt 'highlight' video ever made.

Anyways, check out that jump recovery, 290-300lbs and he would block a shot or attempt to, and recover almost immediately and be right up over your next shot in a fraction of a second. Terrifying stuff if you are trying to get inside and score. He also looks physical as **** on defense, like he's not concerned about landing on you if you are dumb enough to get underneath him.
:applause: Looking forward to it.

Where'd you find the new footage?

[DatAsh]

http://youtu.be/UAmuvwsDKBk

Some of the many new clips to be found in the next revision of "Wilt scouting tool".

Something like 10-15 new field goals have been found that will be added (I didn't count yet, but there's a handful of new ones)

I'm going to add about 5 to 6 minutes more footage to the "physical tools and athleticism" preface (which this is a short preview of) which includes as you can see, just a short preview of his defensive prowess.

I'm thinking about adding his passing highlights to this next revision. Which means it could finally cover the full range of Wilt's offensive capability and reveal why defenses had to be covering him a certain way (scoring highlights alone don't reveal how dangerous he was on offense). The full court outlet passes video I recently uploaded was just a sample of organizing/categorizing a specific type of pass. So expect this next version to be the first hour + long Wilt 'highlight' video ever made.

Anyways, check out that jump recovery, 290-300lbs and he would block a shot or attempt to, and recover almost immediately and be right up over your next shot in a fraction of a second. Terrifying stuff if you are trying to get inside and score. He also looks physical as **** on defense, like he's not concerned about landing on you if you are dumb enough to get underneath him.

Really looking forward to all of it, especially the defensive stuff.

[eliteballer]

1. Yes, quite easily. Though why would he want his head to hit the ring? He's not going to be trying to get his head near it, so given that only 2% of his career field goals exists on film, and even less of his overall career, opportunities to see his head at maximum height near the rim are going to be slim to none. Only a few pics and clips exist of him jumping high in close vicinity of the ring, but nevertheless they definitely exist and don't really leave room for reasonable doubt.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4sqgfvu0TwI/VCJUe3ra60I/AAAAAAAAFcA/Y1vyTUqYHJU/s800/1111.JPG

2. Not that this has to do with your overall point you are trying to make, but Converse All Star shoes are not 1 inch thick, those type of basketball shoes back then were wafer thin compared to modern shoes. They were probably more like a half inch thick.

This doesn't prove anything and I'll show you why:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3qMJCS4Xck&t=3m45s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3qMJCS4Xck&t=3m55s

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2111574&postcount=21

My how times have changed :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zirehYtoxoI

[G0ATbe]

That was probably considered ridiculously impressive in that era.:facepalm

[kshutts1]

Wow, this is an old bump. And I'm not reading it all, but this jumped out at me (I changed formatting as the original post, on page 4, was a quote itself)...

(Quoted)I've heard of him triple jumping 50 feet (which depends a lot on strides and not vertical) but never long jumping 22 feet.(end quote)

It's actually found in the same source with the "24 inch" claim (Sporting News), which further disproves this claim. I quote:

Quote:
Wilt is not a one-sport man, either. At Overbrook High School in Philly, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, broad jumped 22 feet. Bill Easton, Jayhawks track boss, predicts Wilt will reach 7 feet in the high jump if he concentrates on it.
LOL at someone "broad jumping" 22 feet. I call bull.
Aside from that, man I wish I could have seen Wilt in action. Seems like he was an impressive dude.

[Psileas]

Wow, this is an old bump. And I'm not reading it all, but this jumped out at me (I changed formatting as the original post, on page 4, was a quote itself)...
LOL at someone "broad jumping" 22 feet. I call bull.
Aside from that, man I wish I could have seen Wilt in action. Seems like he was an impressive dude.

Why? That's the same as long jumping. The world record had been almost 25 feet even as early on as in 1901.

[kshutts1]

Why? That's the same as long jumping. The world record had been almost 25 feet even as early on as in 1901.
Broad jumping is done from a standstill. At least the broad jumping with which I'm familiar. Long jumping is done with a running start.

[kshutts1]

That's just a technicality, though. I'm one of Wilt's biggest non-"stan" fans. Not trying to detract from him, or what he was capable of doing. Just pointing out the error.

[-23-]

Why? That's the same as long jumping. The world record had been almost 25 feet even as early on as in 1901.


No it's not. Broad Jump is from a stand-still.

[CavaliersFTW]

Broad jumping is done from a standstill. At least the broad jumping with which I'm familiar. Long jumping is done with a running start.
The terms are inter-changeable.

[La Frescobaldi]

No it's not. Broad Jump is from a stand-still.
no. that's a standing broad jump. not the same thing.

[La Frescobaldi]

Wow, this is an old bump. And I'm not reading it all, but this jumped out at me (I changed formatting as the original post, on page 4, was a quote itself)...
LOL at someone "broad jumping" 22 feet. I call bull.
Aside from that, man I wish I could have seen Wilt in action. Seems like he was an impressive dude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_jump

The long jump (historically called the broad jump) is a track and field event in which athletes combine speed, strength, and agility in an attempt to leap as far as possible from a take off point. This event has a history in the Ancient Olympic Games and has been a modern Olympic event for men since the first Olympics in 1896 and for women since 1948.

Rank Mark Wind (m/s) Athlete Venue Date
1 8.95 m (29 ft 41⁄4 in) 0.3 Mike Powell (USA) Tokyo August 30, 1991
2 8.90 m (29 ft 21⁄4 in) A 2.0 Bob Beamon (USA) Mexico City October 18, 1968 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEt_Xgg8dzc)
3 8.87 m (29 ft 1 in) −0.2 Carl Lewis (USA) Tokyo August 30, 1991
4 8.86 m (29 ft 03⁄4 in) A 1.9 Robert Emmiyan (URS) Tsakhkadzor May 22, 1987
5= 8.74 m (28 ft 8 in) 1.4 Larry Myricks (USA) Indianapolis July 18, 1988
5= 8.74 m (28 ft 8 in) A 2.0 Erick Walder (USA) El Paso April 2, 1994
5= 8.74 m (28 ft 8 in) −1.2 Dwight Phillips (USA) Eugene June 7, 2009

22 feet is awesome......... but not compared to Mike Powell's 24 year old record (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0WfsAwvTSU)

edit ~ you should hit that Bob Beamon link because he broke the old record by some astounding figure....... crazy amount

[kshutts1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_jump

The long jump (historically called the broad jump) is a track and field event in which athletes combine speed, strength, and agility in an attempt to leap as far as possible from a take off point. This event has a history in the Ancient Olympic Games and has been a modern Olympic event for men since the first Olympics in 1896 and for women since 1948.

Rank Mark Wind (m/s) Athlete Venue Date
1 8.95 m (29 ft 41⁄4 in) 0.3 Mike Powell (USA) Tokyo August 30, 1991
2 8.90 m (29 ft 21⁄4 in) A 2.0 Bob Beamon (USA) Mexico City October 18, 1968
3 8.87 m (29 ft 1 in) −0.2 Carl Lewis (USA) Tokyo August 30, 1991
4 8.86 m (29 ft 03⁄4 in) A 1.9 Robert Emmiyan (URS) Tsakhkadzor May 22, 1987
5= 8.74 m (28 ft 8 in) 1.4 Larry Myricks (USA) Indianapolis July 18, 1988
5= 8.74 m (28 ft 8 in) A 2.0 Erick Walder (USA) El Paso April 2, 1994
5= 8.74 m (28 ft 8 in) −1.2 Dwight Phillips (USA) Eugene June 7, 2009

22 feet is awesome......... but not compared to Mike Powell's 24 year old record
Then just a difference in terms. I understood broad jumping to be a standstill, while long jump is running start.

I have been corrected.

As for the Mike Powell record, I knew about that... walked under his trajectory at some museum.. pretty ridiculous.

[kshutts1]

As for the "24 inch vertical" claim, if there's a single professional male athlete that can't do that, in any sport (except for MAYBE sumo), then they should be highly ashamed of themselves.

[La Frescobaldi]

Then just a difference in terms. I understood broad jumping to be a standstill, while long jump is running start.

I have been corrected.

As for the Mike Powell record, I knew about that... walked under his trajectory at some museum.. pretty ridiculous.

yeah.... hit that Beamon link too i just edited my post... :wtf: dude's record stood for 25 years or something

not a difference in terms though... you're prolly just too young to remember those old names :lol
standing broad jump was always called that, and broad jump was different. Which is why they abandoned the name it was always confusing