Marvin "Bad News" Barnes Insanity appreciation Thread

A while back Ahlzared did a thread on John Brisker, one of the many, shall we say, colorful personalities that made the ABA what it was.

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189405[/url]

My personal favorite player in terms of all-out insanity is Marvin Barnes.

Barnes was a uber-talented 6'8" forward from Providence college who came to the ABA in 1974 with the Spirits of St. Louis. In the 1975 playoffs he outplayed Julius Erving leading St. Louis to a huge upset of defending Champion New York. Barnes averaged 24-16-3 and 2 blocks as a rookie and his numbers slide after year after. His lifestyle destroyed his body and his talent and ended his career before it ever hit the heights it should have.

In this thread, a few stories I've come across from various basketball personalities about Barnes and his infamous antics which including buying random kids Ice Cream, giving people hundred dollar bills and owing as many as 13 phones.

[B]Bob Costas,[/B] the now renowned broadcaster got his start in 1974 doing Radio for the Spirits. He recalls one of his first meetings with Barnes in the team.

[I]Late in November the Spirits had a game in Memphis, As usual I had no money and our checks were not available until noon. Consequently I didn't take the morning flight with the team. I had a 3pm flight to Memphis...but when I got to the airport there was fog in Memphis. Flights were delayed and we didn't take off until six o'clock. When it landed the game had already begun, I listened to the game on Memphis radio on my way in. Our station was playing dead air. I got to the game late in the first quarter and suffered through the rest. I thought I was going to be fired.

Back at the Hotel I told the guys what had happened and how I was in big trouble. Gus Gerard said, "So what can they do to you, they'll just fine you, you'll pay it and it's over." I told them they don't fine guys in radio, they fire them for missing games. Marvin Barnes pipped up and said; "Hey bro, don't worry about it, I've been lookin for a little white dude to drive me around in my Rolls-Royce" It was nice to know I had something to fall back on. [/I]

Harvey Weltman was the President of the Spirits during their two years of existence.
[I]
Look at what Marvin did for us a rookie. He averaged 24 points, 16 rebounds and shot 50%, and he did it with the worst shot selection I've ever seen from a pro player. He would get the ball turn and shoot it. He didn;t care where he was on the court. [/I]

Rod Thorn was the coach of the Nets in 1974-75 and the Spirits for part of 1975-76.

[I]Marvin showed up for (The 1974) playoffs. He showed a great talent he was. But even then before one of the playoff games, Marvin ate a huge plate of Nachos in the dressing room while he was changing. Most guys would throw up doing that, but he went out and played like King Kong against us.
[/I]

Costas Recalls:

[I]In game one he had 41 points. In game two we just killed them, 117-97. With 10 minutes to go, Julius had only six points, Marvin had 37 and 18 rebounds. [/I]

Barnes in his own words:

[I]"I'm a basketball player, not a monk. I play the women, I play the Clothes, I play the cars, I play everything I can play. There's players and there's playees. The playees are the ones who get played by the players. I am a player."[/I]

Don Chaney, the former Celtics and Laker guard and longtime NBA coach who played one year with Barnes.

[I]One day, Marvin came in the dressing room with a9-millimeter gun. He started pointing it at people and guys were hitting the floor. We figured he had finally freaked out, but he was just messing around. He didn't have a magazine in the gun. I don't know how many times I saw him stay out all night, get an hours sleep and then go out and score 35 points. His pregame meal was usually hamburgers, hot dogs and twinkees.[/I]

Steve Jones, another former team mate of Barnes and former TNT and NBA on NBC analyst:
[I]
"The classic Marvin Barnes story came when we played a game in New York and the next day we had a game in Norfolk. We had an early morning flight out of LaGuardia and naturally, Marvin wasn't there."[/I]

From there Spirits GM Rudy Martzke picks up the story...

[I]"I got a call about three in the afternoon from Bob MacKinnon who told me Marvin missed the 9am, 11am and 1 pm flights to Norfolk. He hadn't heard from Marvin and figured there was no way he'd make the game."[/I]

Costas picks up the story at it's turning point...

[I]"When he got the airport and found all the flights were gone, he cut a deal with a private plane to take him to Norfolk. About 10 minutes before the game, coach MacKinnon was talking strategy and Marvin burst through the doors wearing a huge grin and proclaimed "Boys, Gametime is on time."[/I]

Jones wraps up the episode...
[I]
"Marvin was wearing a big wide-brimmed hat and his floor length $100,000 mink coat. He had a bag of McDonalds hamburgers and fries with him. Then he proclaimed, "Have no fear, BB is here." He opened the coat and underneath he was wearing his Spirits uniform."[/I]
[B]
*As a side note Barnes went for 51 and 19 rebounds that game despite sitting the first 8 minutes.[/B]

Finally, Costas on Barnes fear of flying...sometimes...

It was a given that Marvin would miss the 11 a.m shoot around in Kentucky. Once we got the itinerary for that trip and noticed that the flight was exactly one hour. Because of the change of time zones our return flight would leave Louisville at 8 am and arrive in St. Louis at 7:59.
Marvin looked at it an announced "I ain't gettin' on no time machine. I ain't takin' no flight that takes me back in time. "

More to come...

Holy shit... this guy sounds amazing.

Great read, GOAT. It's hard to believe that a player like Barnes is an unknown now, despite apparently outplaying peak Julius Erving. I wish there was more footage available from before the 1980s, he sounds like he was an exciting player to watch.

[QUOTE=Alhazred]Great read, GOAT. It's hard to believe that a player like Barnes is an unknown now, despite apparently outplaying peak Julius Erving. I wish there was more footage available from before the 1980s, he sounds like he was an exciting player to watch.[/QUOTE]


I always get a kick out o fit when the kids look at say a Kevin Durrant ok the kid has 2 great years and the kids want to put him in the talk with all time greats. So many players have had short lived Great peeks, Marvin,Mcadoo,Spencer Haywood Tiny ect.... I would say it takes at least 8 years of peek performance to be a legit All TIme Great consideration. Not sure how Walton got a Pass.

[QUOTE=Alhazred]Great read, GOAT. It's hard to believe that a player like Barnes is an unknown now, despite apparently outplaying peak Julius Erving. I wish there was more footage available from before the 1980s, he sounds like he was an exciting player to watch.[/QUOTE]

Aside from the lack of footage to remember him from, he was only [I]really[/I] getting down for a year or two before coke derailed it all for him. Not much time to form memories.

[B]A quick look at the absurdity of Barnes drug addiction:[/B]

A quick, powerful 6-9 forward, Barnes often described himself as "Superman" on the court. He didn't think there was a player alive who could stop him from doing anything he pleased, and Barnes certainly didn't think cocaine could, either.

But it did. Barnes' addiction grew to the point where, toward the end of his career, he was snorting cocaine during games.

[I]"Yeah, I was doing it on the bench," Barnes said. "I was playing for the Celtics, and I was sitting next to Nate Archibald and somebody else, and I was snorting cocaine right there on the bench while the game was going on.

"They all moved away from me. I had it under a towel. I guess I don't need to say that my career didn't last much longer after that." [/I]

[I]"Man, coke intensified everything," he said. "It intensified my sex drive, it heightened my awareness, it made me more outgoing and talkative, and I thought it made me better on the court.

"But like all drugs and like alcohol, it turns on you. It started diminishing everything. It turned me inside out. I used to be a snappy dresser, I had the gift of gab, I was into working out and eating well and living well.

"But when I started doing drugs I stopped dressing nice and I became withdrawn. My game really fell off. I prided myself on being one of the best players in basketball. When I was in the ABA, I was one of the top five players in basketball -- ABA or NBA. No question. But when I turned to cocaine, alcohol and marijuana, everything fell off -- my dress, my looks, my weight and my basketball game.

"I went from being social to being antisocial. I went from being loving, caring and giving to being selfish, dishonest and mistrustful." [/I]

"I would have been one of the 50 greatest players of all time,'' said Barnes, 57, who now works with at-risk teenagers in his Men to Men program in his hometown of Providence, R.I., telling them the pitfalls of drugs. "I was one of the five best players on the planet period (with St. Louis). Just ask anybody (from) back then ... I was kicking some butt. ... But I was going on a downhill spiral. I met drug traffickers in St. Louis and they showed me another way of life. And that was detrimental to my basketball career.''
[B]
Excerpt from Fanhouse: Barnes on what his legacy would have been.[/B]

[I]"I would have been one of the 50 greatest players of all time. ... But I was going on a downhill spiral.''
- Marvin Barnes Ask Larry Brown, now Charlotte's coach, who went against Barnes in the ABA while leading the Denver Nuggets. Did Barnes have the potential to be top 50, referring to the all-time NBA list revealed in 1996-97 on the NBA's 50th anniversary?

"Oh, no doubt,'' Brown said. "He was as good as anybody in the ABA.''

For years, the 6-foot-9 power forward and center, nicknamed "Bad News,'' was able to overcome many troubles and his general zaniness and put up big numbers.

Barnes was an All-American at Providence College, where he got into trouble for allegedly hitting teammate Larry Ketvirtis with a tire iron. Barnes claims the story isn't true, that he punched Ketvirtis after practice in response to an earlier elbow from his teammate. He said he later returned with a tire iron to prevent further trouble.

Nevertheless, Barnes, who said he paid Ketvirtis $10,000 for medical damages, eventually pleaded guilty. He said he did it to avoid the possibility of jail time, which cleared him to become a pro. He got three years probation.[/I]

[B]More Marvin being Marvin from SI 1975[/B]

[I]"They say, 'No, Marvin, you've got to grow up and be responsible for the whole franchise.' They know I'm immature. If I knew better I wouldn't do some of the things I do. ... But I don't want to act like an old man of 30 when I'm only 22. I figure the time to know how to act right is when you're old because you don't want to mess around anymore anyway. But they keep telling me, 'You can't make any mistakes, Marvin. Don't miss any more planes, Marvin. Drink your milk, Marvin. Eat your vegetables, Marvin.' Bunch of frustrated mothers."[/I]

[B]Joe Caldwell, a Spirits teammate in 1974-75, [/B]

[I]"I remember Barnes once gulping down fried chicken, red beans and rice and a soda right before tipoff. By the second quarter Barnes was in "slow motion'' and ineffective the rest of the game."[/I]

[B]Caldwell recalls another of Barnes' quirks.[/B]
[I]
"He had 13 phones in his house, always wanting to be able to answer the phone with as little movement as possible."[/I]

[B]Barnes on the second amendment...[/B]

[I]"I would carry a .38 in one arm and a .45 in another, Guys would hang their pistols up in the locker room. They called us the Detroit Hoodlums. (A lot of the players) carried guns. It was a normal thing.''[/I]

[B]More of Barnes lamenting his path: [/B]

[I]"I look back with regret,'' Barnes said of his career. "I think I could have been one of the best ever. I was Rookie of the Year and I made the All-Star team (in both his ABA seasons). Everything had come so easy for me. I was destroying 7-footers like Artis Gilmore and (6-9) Dan Issel. I was destroying those guys, and I was beating Moses Malone too. And Bobby Jones.''[/I]

[B]Bob Costas recalls Barnes unique perspective of team play: [/B]
[I]

[QUOTE=AMISTILLILL]Holy shit... this guy sounds amazing.[/QUOTE]
And everybody hates Gilbert Arenas ...

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]And everybody hates Gilbert Arenas ...[/QUOTE]

Barnes was basically a 1970's Gil Arenas.

His era allowed his exploits to get more out of hand, but I'm betting theses guys should have been on the same meds.

[IMG]http://hellinthehall.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/aba-darnellhillman1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://www.remembertheaba.com/TributeMaterial/PlayerMaterial/MarvinBarnes/BarnesGrabErvingClose.jpg[/IMG]


remember the aba
Sound Clip -- December 1974: Marvin returns to the Spirits and endures endless questions about billiards.
[url]http://www.remembertheaba.com/TributeMaterial/Barnes.html[/url]

[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]Barnes was basically a 1970's Gil Arenas.

His era allowed his exploits to get more out of hand, but I'm betting theses guys should have been on the same meds.[/QUOTE]


Gil is in no way a Marvin Barnes. Gil is childish Marvin lived in the streets there is a difference a big one. BUt both were/are missunderstood.

Wow the ALl Missunderstood Team

Gil
David Thompson
Roy Tarpley
Ron Artest
Marvin

[QUOTE=Niquesports]Gil is in no way a Marvin Barnes. Gil is childish Marvin lived in the streets there is a difference a big one. BUt both were/are missunderstood.

Wow the ALl Missunderstood Team

Gil
David Thompson
Roy Tarpley
Ron Artest
Marvin[/QUOTE]
Marvin is from the hood, Gil basically "lived" in the streets as he was homeless for sometime.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]Marvin is from the hood, Gil basically "lived" in the streets as he was homeless for sometime.[/QUOTE]
A very short time I think it was like less than a year. Then him and his father found a apartment and he was taken in by a family that helped rear him and it wasnt in the hood.

[QUOTE=zizozain][IMG]http://hellinthehall.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/aba-darnellhillman1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://www.remembertheaba.com/TributeMaterial/PlayerMaterial/MarvinBarnes/BarnesGrabErvingClose.jpg[/IMG]


remember the aba
Sound Clip -- December 1974: Marvin returns to the Spirits and endures endless questions about billiards.
[url]http://www.remembertheaba.com/TributeMaterial/Barnes.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Thanks for adding that, but that top picture is Darnell Hillman

Anyway wanted to repost this snipet so more people see it. This is pure awesome.

Finally, Costas on Barnes fear of flying...sometimes...

[I]It was a given that Marvin would miss the 11 a.m shoot around in Kentucky. Once we got the itinerary for that trip and noticed that the flight was exactly one hour. Because of the change of time zones our return flight would leave Louisville at 8 am and arrive in St. Louis at 7:59.
Marvin looked at it an announced "I ain't gettin' on no time machine. I ain't takin' no flight that takes me back in time. "[/I]

Great find on Barnes. The ABA was full of bizarre personalities, as it was easier for them to thrive in a less strictly structured and organized league.

You already mentioned Brisker, a Sprewell-like guy (at his most stable...), with a Bison Dele-like end.
I propose you also look up Reggie Harding - a real life 7-foot criminal, the worst teammate anyone could ever hope to have (imagine your teammate beating you in a one-on-one game and then you telling him to get the F out of the way or else you'd take out your gun and shoot him-and meaning it. Well, this actually happened...).

[QUOTE=Niquesports]Gil is in no way a Marvin Barnes. Gil is childish Marvin lived in the streets there is a difference a big one. BUt both were/are missunderstood.

Wow the ALl Missunderstood Team

Gil
David Thompson
Roy Tarpley
Ron Artest
Marvin[/QUOTE]

I'd say Marvin was more like his era's Tarpley.