Gary Payton has become insanely underrated

On this board, there has been so much talk of Nash and Kidd being top PG's of all-time that they have forgot a gentleman named Gary Payton. Payton in his prime was known for his efficient offense and lockdown defense, something rare for PG's.

Gary had very fast hands, was fast on his feet, and had very long arms where he could guard players 2-3 inches taller and do it very well. His shooting percentages took a fall once he had to score more points, but his defense remained excellent and he put up great numbers even into his 30s. At 31, he put up 24/9/6+. Even at 34, he was putting up 20/8/4 with almost two steals a night.

Gary remained a top PG 13 seasons into his career at age 34, which is not common. He's the only guard since '89 to win DPOY. He locked down many great guards and even did a good job on Michael Jordan. When people are comparing Kidd and Nash and placing them on all-time lists, Payton is basically ignored and that is a shame.

Um, only people who never watched Payton, or only values one side of the court would rank Nash higher.

co-sign

Nash fan here... In my mind, Nash is the better shooter and passer but Payton is a MUCH better defender and could score in more ways. Effeciency wise, their about the same to me. I would rank Payton higher than Nash anyways.

[QUOTE=Nash-tastic]Nash fan here... In my mind, Nash is the better shooter and passer but Payton is a MUCH better defender and could score in more ways. Effeciency wise, their about the same to me. I would rank Payton higher than Nash anyways.[/QUOTE]
How are they same efficiency wise?

[QUOTE=D.J.]On this board, there has been so much talk of Nash and Kidd being top PG's of all-time that they have forgot a gentleman named Gary Payton. Payton in his prime was known for his efficient offense and lockdown defense, something rare for PG's.

Gary had very fast hands, was fast on his feet, and had very long arms where he could guard players 2-3 inches taller and do it very well. His shooting percentages took a fall once he had to score more points, but his defense remained excellent and he put up great numbers even into his 30s. At 31, he put up 24/9/6+. Even at 34, he was putting up 20/8/4 with almost two steals a night.

Gary remained a top PG 13 seasons into his career at age 34, which is not common. He's the only guard since '89 to win DPOY. He locked down many great guards and even did a good job on Michael Jordan. When people are comparing Kidd and Nash and placing them on all-time lists, Payton is basically ignored and that is a shame.[/QUOTE]
:applause:

Ignoring payton is a terrible disservice to the history of bball.

Payton > Nash to me, always has been.

Agreed but you probaly dealing with kids that started really watching the game in 2003 and so on.....The Glove was baller all around:cheers:

[QUOTE=Meticode]Payton > Nash to me, always has been.[/QUOTE]


I don't think it's even debatable. I think Kidd > Nash and that doesn't even get to Payton.

[QUOTE=Nash-tastic]Nash fan here... In my mind, Nash is the better shooter and passer but Payton is a MUCH better defender and could score in more ways. [B]Effeciency wise, their about the same to me[/B]. I would rank Payton higher than Nash anyways.[/QUOTE]

Payton's career TS% 52.8 Paytons peak TS% 56.4 averaging 20.6 PPG

Nash's career TS% 60.6 Nash's peak TS% 65.4 averaging 18.6 PPG

I agree that the Glove was the better all around player, but effeciency wise it's Nash and it's not even close.

[QUOTE=I'm Seriously]Payton's career TS% 52.8 Paytons peak TS% 56.4 averaging 20.6 PPG

Nash's career TS% 60.6 Nash's peak TS% 65.4 averaging 18.6 PPG

I agree that the Glove was the better all around player, but effeciency wise it's Nash and it's not even close.[/QUOTE]
This.

[QUOTE=Showtime]Um, only people who never watched Payton, or only values one side of the court would rank Nash higher.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, I'm a huge fan of Nash but Payton was clearly better.

Anybody who dares to rank Nash over Payton simply has not watched basketball for very long. Payton is the greater player and it's not even that close. GP was incredible on defense, plus he had a damn good post up game and was a great leader.

[QUOTE=D.J.]I don't think it's even debatable. I think Kidd > Nash and that doesn't even get to Payton.[/QUOTE]
It's ISH, people will debate Rose over Payton man. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=D.J.]I don't think it's even debatable. I think Kidd > Nash and that doesn't even get to Payton.[/QUOTE]
Kidd-Nash is debatable, but I give the edge to Nash there. That being said, I felt like Nash benefited greatly from the no hand-checking rule. It took away one of his biggest weaknesses.