Re: My ideal raps off-season
[QUOTE=barkleynash]For the raps to continue building I think they need to get out of that first round. The buzz is insane in TO right now.
1. Trade our current first round pick to the suns for Tyler Ennis
2. Resign sweet lou for 5 mill. resign amir Johnson for 6 mill.
3. Sign free-agent Paul Millsap to 3 year 36 million dollar deal.
4. Handsbrough and fields, stiesma probably won't be brought back.
5. Sign chuck hayes to cheap veteran deal.
lowry, vaz, ennis
derozen, sweet lou
ross, JJ, Bruno
millsap, Patterson
val, amir, bebe/hayes
Not sure if they can get home team discounts from Amir and Sweet Lou, but if they can squeeze millsap in, this team would start reminding me of some of the pistons teams, both in 89 and 90 as well as 2004. Quality depth at every position.
Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
I have been thinking along the same lines. Basically I'd like to see us keep our team together with the addition of Milsap. I don't think Ennis makes much sense on this team if we have Lowry, Vazques and Lou. I wouldn't want to give up a draft pick for him and I don't think he would be available for one either. But lets discuss the starting PF position as it is infinitely more important than our 3rd PG.
Ultimately I'd like to see Amir replace Tyler H as our backup Centre, with Hayes as security. I think our best bet for improving this team is by getting a legit starting PF that can rebound, play defense and score. I love Amir but he is clearly declining due to leg issues.
So if we let Tyler H, Fields and Stiemsma go (though we may keep Steamer as it doesn't really affect our salary situation; you need someone at the end of the bench making the minimum).
And if we are keeping Amir, Lou and Hayes: I project that Amir and Lou would each cost us about 6 million per year. Chuck Hayes I put at about 1.5 million.
Kyle Lowry $12,000,000
DeMar DeRozan $10,100,000
Amir Johnson $6,000,000
Greivis Vasquez $6,600,000
Charles Hayes $1,500,000
Patrick Patterson$6,268,675
Lou Williams $6,000,000
Jonas Valanciuna$4,660,482
Terrence Ross $3,553,917
James Johnson $2,500,000
Lucas Nogueira $1,842,000
Bruno Caboclo $1,524,000
Greg Stiemsma $1,000,000
#25 Pick Project$1,250,000
DeAndre Daniels$750,000
Inclusive Total: $65,549,074
Next years projected Cap is $66,500,000 and the Tax Threshold is $81,000,000
So if we want to add one free agent (thus subtract one guy at the end) we only have approx. 2 million under the cap. We are way below the tax, but that doesn't help with free agents. In fact, we would be better off over paying Amir, Lou and Hayes so that we go over the cap and then we can use the mid-level exception (not available to teams under the cap). Obviously, given the above information, we can't sign our own guys AND a premier free agent. We would have to let Amir and Lou go in order to bring in a guy like Milsap.
The other option we have is to pursue a target through trade. Then we would have the players rights so we can go over the cap to sign him. I personally think that is the best route to go. You likely have to give up two assets to get the guy you want (1st rounder and young player) but he will be easier to resign once he is on your roster.
Re: My ideal raps off-season
I think if we sign Millsap that Amir becomes expendable. He is getting more and more fragile every season with those wonky ankles and we have Patterson signed as a backup.
This will be an exciting offseason having $35.34 million dollars coming off the books, including the final year of Marcus Camby's buyout from a few years ago. Having only $48.2 million dollars on the books leaves us with a lot of flexibility, but we need to be extra careful because Valanciunas and Ross' contracts come off the books the following year and need to be resigned.
Say we sign Lou Will for $6 million and Millsap for $12 million we will be at $66.2 million dollars committed salary and $14.8 million to round out the rest of the roster (4 Players);
Valanciunas/[B]Garnett[/B]/Nogueira
[B]Millsap[/B]/Patterson
Ross/Johnson/Caboclo
DeRozan/Williams
Lowry/Vazquez
With this roster the only glaring hole would be backup C. Maybe we can sign a Garnett type veteran to a cheap deal to backup Jonas and be a mentor/veteran presence like Oakley back in the day. I would also not mind Boozer, Perkins, Asik, Dalembert, Amar'e, Chandler, Scola as backups either as they are all UFA's this off season as well.
Re: My ideal raps off-season
[QUOTE=bluerap]
And if we are keeping Amir, Lou and Hayes: I project that Amir and Lou would each cost us about 6 million per year. Chuck Hayes I put at about 1.5 million.
Kyle Lowry $12,000,000
DeMar DeRozan $10,100,000
Amir Johnson $6,000,000
Greivis Vasquez $6,600,000
Charles Hayes $1,500,000
Patrick Patterson$6,268,675
Lou Williams $6,000,000
Jonas Valanciuna$4,660,482
Terrence Ross $3,553,917
James Johnson $2,500,000
Lucas Nogueira $1,842,000
Bruno Caboclo $1,524,000
Greg Stiemsma $1,000,000
#25 Pick Project$1,250,000
DeAndre Daniels$750,000
Inclusive Total: $65,549,074
Next years projected Cap is $66,500,000 and the Tax Threshold is $81,000,000
[/QUOTE]
Good post.
If I recall we actually have 2 first rounders next season :cheers:
Right now that projects out at 25th and say a further $ 4 Million for the Knicks pick around "top 10" taking us to $69 Million. Raps via NYK for Andreas Bargnani.
As you indicate there are escalations in Val / Ross and longer term signings if you decide those guys a long term pieces (likely both are).
We also have Vasquez only on a 2 year deal with a bit of discount to current market value ??
I think if this team is that competative MLSE will spend to the luxury tax as we are currently "pushing the edge" but not over and would not face the huge multi season multiplier penalty tax. Especially with the All Star game coming via 2016.
For those of you old enough this is a bit reminiscent of the 90-93 Blue Jays.
Masai may surprise us all. He did go out and get Ike when in Denver but seemed to structure the team around players and contracts always coming due every year so he had flexibility to make opportune moves.
I do think if we land a player of the Mislap (or better quality) [I][U]the draft picks and perhaps Terrence Ross would be the players going the other way.[/U][/I] Hayes, Hansborough could be part of the sign and trade. That would leave room to have a perennial all star plus cap room for Val / Vasquez / etc etc etc until such time as the cap rises to about $75 million based on the TV revenue and the new CBA.
The reason I am suggesting Ross in particular is that: while Ross is a nice player and I do like him... there is apparent depth available at the 3. James Johnson, Bruno although some project him as a 4 not a 3, Lou, and Derozan. Plus it would appear that there are always a number of 3s coming up in the draft to re assess that position.
Re: My ideal raps off-season
[QUOTE=Jballer]Good post.
If I recall we actually have 2 first rounders next season :cheers:
Right now that projects out at 25th and say a further $ 4 Million for the Knicks pick around "top 10" taking us to $69 Million. Raps via NYK for Andreas Bargnani.
As you indicate there are escalations in Val / Ross and longer term signings if you decide those guys a long term pieces (likely both are).
We also have Vasquez only on a 2 year deal with a bit of discount to current market value ??
I think if this team is that competative MLSE will spend to the luxury tax as we are currently "pushing the edge" but not over and would not face the huge multi season multiplier penalty tax. Especially with the All Star game coming via 2016.
For those of you old enough this is a bit reminiscent of the 90-93 Blue Jays.
Masai may surprise us all. He did go out and get Ike when in Denver but seemed to structure the team around players and contracts always coming due every year so he had flexibility to make opportune moves.
I do think if we land a player of the Mislap (or better quality) [I][U]the draft picks and perhaps Terrence Ross would be the players going the other way.[/U][/I] Hayes, Hansborough could be part of the sign and trade. That would leave room to have a perennial all star plus cap room for Val / Vasquez / etc etc etc until such time as the cap rises to about $75 million based on the TV revenue and the new CBA.
[B]The reason I am suggesting Ross in particular is that: while Ross is a nice player and I do like him... there is apparent depth available at the 3. James Johnson, Bruno although some project him as a 4 not a 3, Lou, and Derozan. Plus it would appear that there are always a number of 3s coming up in the draft to re assess that position.[/B][/QUOTE]
1. Bruno is not ready for everyday backup minutes. An alley-oop and a few three pointers won't change that.
2. Lou Williams is not even close to being a small forward and nowhere near capable of guarding that position given his lack of size.
3. DeRozan is a shooting guard and I am doubtful he makes the move over to a foreign position at this stage in his career and also considering his role with the team.
We are actually not that deep at the 3 at all. The only other player we have is Daniels stashed away in Europe, and he isn't ready either.
Trading Ross should not even be a discussion. The defence him and Johnson provide have been a huge part of our early season success thus far.
Re: My ideal raps off-season
[QUOTE=barkleynash]For the raps to continue building I think they need to get out of that first round. The buzz is insane in TO right now.
1. Trade our current first round pick to the suns for Tyler Ennis
2. Resign sweet lou for 5 mill. resign amir Johnson for 6 mill.
3. Sign free-agent Paul Millsap to 3 year 36 million dollar deal.
4. Handsbrough and fields, stiesma probably won't be brought back.
5. Sign chuck hayes to cheap veteran deal.
lowry, vaz, ennis
derozen, sweet lou
ross, JJ, Bruno
millsap, Patterson
val, amir, bebe/hayes
Not sure if they can get home team discounts from Amir and Sweet Lou, but if they can squeeze millsap in, this team would start reminding me of some of the pistons teams, both in 89 and 90 as well as 2004. Quality depth at every position.
Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
mmmm
1. We should not trade for ennis as we have two capable guys unless your gonna trade one for the other.
2. Williams has been an amazing sparkplug of the bench and if we can keep him a must at that price.
3. I do not under any circumstances want millsap as we have far to many undersized 4s already in patpat, hansborough, amir, hayes. I would much prefer a guy with length and size whos a capable rebounder ala monroe or gasol via FA
4/5. bring chuck hayes back on veteran minimum his experience and tough play is invaluable to this team during crunch time. Like in the memphis game. He carries all the intangables.
Re: My ideal raps off-season
Why are we already talking offseason?
Re: My ideal raps off-season
[QUOTE=bonez26]mmmm
1. We should not trade for ennis as we have two capable guys unless your gonna trade one for the other.
2. Williams has been an amazing sparkplug of the bench and if we can keep him a must at that price.
3. I do not under any circumstances want millsap as we have far to many undersized 4s already in patpat, hansborough, amir, hayes. I would much prefer a guy with length and size whos a capable rebounder ala monroe or gasol via FA
4/5. bring chuck hayes back on veteran minimum his experience and tough play is invaluable to this team during crunch time. Like in the memphis game. He carries all the intangables.[/QUOTE]
Hansbrough, Hayes and Amir are expiring contracts. If Millsap is signed they would let Amir go I would think since we have Patterson signed for two more seasons after this season. And yes, I would much rather pay Millsap $12 million a year than Amir $8 million a year (Which he will likely get).. we have more than enough cap space to do it as well.
Re: My ideal raps off-season
[QUOTE=Toni]
Trading Ross should not even be a discussion. The defence him and Johnson provide have been a huge part of our early season success thus far.[/QUOTE]
I don't think at this time anyone is really untouchable. Great player / great depth.
I was not indicating that Ross [U]had to go [/U]and I agree he is "somewhat" a part of Raptors success to date (his D remains inconsistent). I am not sure I agree with [B]huge.[/B]..
I think Lowry / Demar / Lou have been the real cornerstones.
What I said is [COLOR="Indigo"]"if Toronto in the off season went out to snag a Mislap (or better / All Star / Super Star) caliber player - given the salary cap / luxury cap considerations I would think that Ross might have to go back to the other team likely with some draft picks". [/COLOR] I am suggesting an FA would want a sign an trade for the years on the contract.
How we would fill is Ross left i.e. Derozan/ Bruno/ Lou is certainly an open question. I don't think those options are perfect. But it also depends on who they targeted as the free agent acquisition... that player could also be a 3 or could also be capable of playing all over the court.
I was addressing the post above about cap / tax vis a vis the offseason.
I am certain that MLSE will spend up to the luxury tax in the off season especially if (1) this team goes deep into the playoffs (2) we are hosting an all star game (3) we have multiple first rounders over the next 2 years. I dont think that MLSE will spend above the luxury line.
This team has Lowry / Derozan / Vasquez/ Patterson/ Joe signed variously for the next 3 seasons on average ~ [B]i.e. there is a window to build a legitimate title challenger. [/B]
Val and Ross can be extended with raises but eventually you have to sign them or loose them.
As I say this reminds me a lot of the Blue Jays circa early 1990s. They had their core signed (Alomar/Carter/ Fernadez et al) and then brought in the missing pieces. But eventually the window closed by 1995 and all those guys were gone.
Hoepfully with the youth and smarts of Masai -the eventual drop off in 5 years is not long lived.
