Flpiii found ORIGINAL 3 seconds rule from NBA rulebook... PAINT-CAMPING WAS LEGAL

[SIZE="3"]HERE ARE THE ACTUAL RULES, WORD-FOR-WORD FROM NBA RULEBOOK[/SIZE] (courtesy Flpiii):

[url]http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html[/url]

[SIZE="5"][B](2) Guidelines for Defensive Coverage
[/B][/SIZE]
[I]a. Weakside defenders may be in a defensive position within the "outside lane" with no time limit, and within the "Inside lane" for 2.9 seconds. The defensive player must re-establish a position with both feet out of the "Insidelane" to be considered as having legally cleared the restricted area.

[B]b. When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area.
[/B]
c. An offensive player without the ball may not be double-teamed from the weakside. Only the player with the ball may be double-teamed by a weakside defensive player. Weakside and strongside restrictions shall extend from the baseline to the midcourt line.

d. When an offensive player, with or without the ball, takes a position above the foul line, the defensive player may be no farther (toward the baseline) than the "middle defensive area." Defensive player(s) may enter and re-enter the "lower defensive area" as many times as desired, so long as he does not exceed 2.9 seconds.

e. When a weakside offensive player is above the free throw line extended, his defensive man may be no lower than the "middle defensive area" extended for more than 2.9 seconds. When a weakside offensive player is below the free throw line extended, his defensive man must vacate the "inside lane" unless his man is positioned adjacent (posted up) to the threesecond lane extended. When a weakside offensive player is above the tip of the circle, his defensive man must be no lower than the "upper defensive area" for more than 2.9 seconds. When a strongside offensive player is above the tip of the circle extended, his defensive man may be no lower than the free-throw line extended (upper defensive area) for more than 2.9 seconds. When a strongside offensive player is above the free throw line extended "upper defensive area, his defensive man may be no lower than the "middle defensive area" for more than 2.9 seconds. When an offensive player on the strongside is below the free throw line extended "middle defensive area," his defender must take a position below the free throw line extended immediately or double-team the ball as soon as the ball crosses midcourt. There is no 2.9 time limit. If the offensive player relocates to a position above the free throw line extended, his defender may take a similar position no farther than one defensive area away within 2.9 seconds. In all of the situations above, a defensive player may always aggressively double-team the ball regardless of his previous position on the floor.

f. When an offensive player takes a position above the tip of the circle, with or without the ball, the defensive player may be no farther (toward the baseline) from him than the "upper defensive area."

g. A defensive player must follow his weakside offensive man, switch to another man at an area of intersection, or double-team the ball. There is no 2.9-second time limit on this play. A defensive player must execute one of these three options or he is guilty of an illegal defense immediately.

h. A defensive player must follow his strongside offensive man, switch to another man at an area of intersection, or double-team the ball. There is a 2.9-second time limit on this play which commences when the defensive player reaches the weakside and "opens up."

i. A double team is when two or more defenders aggressively pursue a player with the ball to a position close enough for a held ball to occur. Failure to comply with paragraphs (a) through (i) above will result in an Illegal Defense violation.[/I]


[B][SIZE="3"][U]CLIFFS OF THE RULES[/U][/SIZE][/B]:

The rules regarding how long a defender can stay in the lane are different depending on whether the offensive player is on the SIDES of the paint (outside the lane on either side), or whether they are at the top of the key above where players shoot free throws.

[B]Regarding when the offensive player is outside the lane on either SIDE of the paint[/B]: Rule 2b (bolded above) states that defenders could camp in the lane if their man was within 3 feet of the SIDES of the free-throw lane... This is the rule that allowed defenders to camp in the lane without having to tippy-toe... Today, players must be within "armslength", which is not long enough to reach a player outside the paint, [I]let alone 3 feet outside[/I].. and you can imagine how lax the refs were about judging the 3 feet - no wonder defenders frequently camped in the lane while guarding a 3-point shooter!

[B]Regarding when a player is at top of the key above where players shoot FT's[/B]: Rules 2d and 2e state that when a defender's man is at the top of the key above the foul line, the rules are essentially the same as today - players can sag back off their man, but if they drop back all the way to the paint, they can't be in there for more than 2.9 seconds.

So you literally cut and paste your entire posts to create threads now? GTFO. And it was a T after 1 second if your man was above the 3. So much dumb in all your posts.

okay, so this proves that eras were different, something that all reasonable fans already knew:confusedshrug:

also i'm assuming this is the older rules, do you have the newer rules? would be interested in seeing the differences

In the future you should consider denoting *defensive* in your thread titles or headlines... because there are idiots out there that won't read your post, only the headline, and your headline (though it doesn't intend to) perpetuates a myth. I hear shit all the time on my Youtube channel that Wilt in videos like my offensive scouting tool, "camped in the paint" (on offense) which is entirely false. 3 in the key is the reason for the key's entire existence. Offensively, the rule is very much as identical then as it is today.

[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]So you literally cut and paste your entire posts to create threads now? GTFO. And it was a T after 1 second if your man was above the 3. So much dumb in all your posts.[/QUOTE]
jfc... posters on here have short attention spans - since you apparently didn't read past the cliffs, i switched it around and posted the cliffs LAST, so you can see the entire rule first.

The original rule says defenders could stay in the lane as long as their man was within 3 feet of either side of the paint.

Think about that - the offensive player can be within 3 feet of either side of the paint - with hash marks on the baseline to mark the 3 feet... you can only imagine how lax refs were about the 3 feet... which is why defenders could frequently camp in the lane while defending 3-point shooters.

The original rules confirm that defenders in previous eras could camp in the paint, which would explain why they never tippy-toed in and out of the paint like today's defenders must do.
.

[QUOTE=Kvnzhangyay]

okay, so this proves that eras were different, something that all reasonable fans already knew:confusedshrug:

also i'm assuming this is the older rules, [B]do you have the newer rules[/B]? would be interested in seeing the differences

[/QUOTE]
the NEW rule says a defender must be within ARMSLENGTH to stay in the lane - see the 2nd sentence of the first paragraph here at nba.com: [url]http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html[/url]

whereas the old rule says defenders can stay in the lane as long as their man is within 3 feet of either side of the paint... with hash marks on the baseline to mark the 3 feet.

imagine how lax refs were about the 3 foot hashmarks... which is why defenders could frequently [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695139&postcount=1][u]camp in the paint while guarding 3-point shooters[/u][/url].

[QUOTE=3ball]so what's the deal here...

looks like we have confirmed that defenders could camp in the lane in previous eras.[/QUOTE]
Well not exactly.

You still weren't allowed to "camp" that's a bit of an exaggeration... it was just easier to stay inside the lane - defensively. The 3 defensive second rule still existed, there's just a modification today that intends to tighten up the distance between the defensive player and the offensive player.

Also, again just for readers skimming, offensive 3 seconds was an identical rule as today. So there is definitely no camping allowed for offensive players in any form in any era, that rule has remained unchanged.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]

You still weren't allowed to "camp" that's a bit of an exaggeration... it was just easier to stay inside the lane - defensively.

[/quote]
the rule says defenders could stay in the lane if their man was within THREE FEET of either side of the paint - how is this not [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10866902&postcount=134][u]camping in the lane[/u][/url]?


[quote]

there's just a modification today that intends to tighten up the distance between the defensive player and the offensive player.

[/QUOTE]
you make it sound like the NBA made a minor adjustment in tightening up the distance - the distance between "armslength" and 3 feet outside the lane is significant, not minor.

it's the difference between needing to tippy-toe in and out of the lane to remain in armslength reach, and just being able to stand there.

and the rule says that hashmarks on the baseline denote the 3 feet... imagine how lax refs were about the 3 foot hashmarks... which is why defenders could frequently [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695139&postcount=1][u]camp in the paint while guarding 3-point shooters[/u][/url].

[QUOTE=3ball]the rule says defenders could stay in the lane if their man was within 3 feet of either side of the paint - how is this not camping in the lane?



you make it sound like the NBA made a minor adjustment in tightening up the distance - the distance between "armslength" and 3 feet outside the lane is a big distance and not minor.

and the rule says that hashmarks on the baseline denote the 3 feet... imagine how lax refs were about the 3 foot hashmarks... which is why defenders could frequently [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695139&postcount=1][u]camp in the paint while guarding 3-point shooters[/u][/url].
.[/QUOTE]
Camping is still possible. It's just more difficult.

I'm not disputing that the change is significant. But let's be clear, it is a tightening up of the radius of how close the defender needs to be to the offensive player before he gets whistled for 3 seconds. It is not a black and white "camping was allowed then, and is not allowed now". Camping is allowed then, so long as the defensive player abided by the rules then. Camping is allowed TODAY so long as the defensive player now stays more tightly glued to the offensive player. It is going to happen much more rarely today, granted said rules. But again this isn't a cut and dry "camping was allowed then but now it is not" scenario.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]

It's no more camping in the lane than the defenders today who DO stay within 3 feet of an offensive player planted near the key are camping.

[/QUOTE]
you are grossly underestimating how big the paint is.

[B]it's math and measurements - a player's arm is 3 feet long - the paint itself from one side to the other is SIXTEEN FEET, plus 3 more feet that was allowed outside the paint... think about that.[/B]

unless a defender is standing right near the edge of the paint, they cannot be within armslength of an offensive player that is outside the paint.


[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/d6c47d055cfff266f26bde61297986cf.gif[/IMG]


look at long-armed mark eaton on bill cartwrght - cartwrght is out of armslength and could still go another 3 feet outside the lane before eaton is illegal.

notice how eaton isn't at all worried about tippy-toeing.. it's night and day difference from todaay's game, and to argue that the two environments are similar in this specific regard, is just not true.

the [I]rules[/I] say players in previous eras could camp in the lane as long as their man was within 3 feet of either side of the paint, [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10866902&postcount=134]and the eyetest backs up the rule[/url].
.

it's not camping that even matters. It is the stupid and idiotic circle around the basket........ it's the no-touch area that is so stupid and idiotic

it should be done away with instantly for being stupid and idiotic.

did david stern lose all his testosterone? because that stupid and idiotic circle looks just like a junior high girl's league rule run by a feeble old man who went stupid and idiotic.

NBA = No Boys Allowed.

Not only is that stupid and idiotic circle bad for the game but it is positively ruining careers.

Guys like Z BO and Kendrick Perkins and Nikola Pekovic and Greg Monroe are getting the full shaft on their careers because they ain't being allowed to do their job.

Go stand out in the corner and boink 3s, Chumpie Boy.... because if you come in here you're going to have to prove your mettle.

It's a Manly League that should be for [B]Men who Patrol the Paint[/B].

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]it's not camping that even matters. It is the stupid and idiotic circle around the basket........ it's the no-touch area that is so stupid and idiotic

it should be done away with instantly for being stupid and idiotic.

did david stern lose all his testosterone? because that stupid and idiotic circle looks just like a junior high girl's league rule run by a feeble old man who went stupid and idiotic.

NBA = No Boys Allowed.

Not only is that stupid and idiotic circle bad for the game but it is positively ruining careers.

Guys like Z BO and [B]Kendrick Perkins[/B] and Nikola Pekovic and Greg Monroe are getting the full shaft on their careers because they ain't being allowed to do their job.

Go stand out in the corner and boink 3s, Chumpie Boy.... because if you come in here you're going to have to prove your mettle.

It's a Manly League that should be for [B]Men who Patrol the Paint[/B].[/QUOTE]

While I agree the NBA should make the game slightly more physical (at LEAST find some way of getting rid of flopping- getting rid of flopping by itself should promote physicality), the NBA is still pretty dang physical

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]it's not camping that even matters. It is the stupid and idiotic circle around the basket........ it's the no-touch area that is so stupid and idiotic

it should be done away with instantly for being stupid and idiotic.

did david stern lose all his testosterone? because that stupid and idiotic circle looks just like a junior high girl's league rule run by a feeble old man who went stupid and idiotic.

NBA = No Boys Allowed.

Not only is that stupid and idiotic circle bad for the game but it is positively ruining careers.

Guys like Z BO and Kendrick Perkins and Nikola Pekovic and Greg Monroe are getting the full shaft on their careers because they ain't being allowed to do their job.

Go stand out in the corner and boink 3s, Chumpie Boy.... because if you come in here you're going to have to prove your mettle.

It's a Manly League that should be for [B]Men who Patrol the Paint[/B].[/QUOTE]

I don't know why, but I smell a lot of homo-eroticism in this post.

Flpiii raping retards with his research. Going full-on Chicago Manual of Style on these fools. :biggums:

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]

it's not camping that even matters.

[/QUOTE]
i don't understand why people are so afraid to admit that players could camp in the paint in previous eras - the rules say they could, as long as their man was within 3 feet of either side of the paint... naturally, [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10866902&postcount=134]the eyetest backs up the rule[/url], not that we need to verify it, since the rule already says it in black and white.

more importantly, teams didn't shoot 3's in previous eras, so MOST SHOTS WERE TAKEN WITHIN 3 FEET OF THE PAINT.... that means players, especially big men, could camp in the paint for entire possessions, as long as their man remained within 3 feet of either side of the paint.

and the rule says that hashmarks on the baseline denote the 3 feet... imagine how lax refs were about the 3 foot hashmarks... which is why defenders could frequently [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695139&postcount=1][u]camp in the paint while guarding 3-point shooters[/u][/url].

honestly, i'm about to be done with this forum... posters are actually quite dumb and can't understand advanced concepts, so if you post something remotely nuanced, it gets misunderstood... most importantly, even when you definitively prove something like we've done here proving players could camp in the lane in previous eras, posters will be immature and call you names.

this forum is for dummies.