Official SG comparison thread: 2006 vs. 1997 vs. 1990

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[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR][SIZE="3"][B]SG's with 15.0 or Greater PER[/B][/SIZE]


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR][B][U]2006[/U][/B][COLOR="White"]...............................[/COLOR][B][U]1997[/U][/B][COLOR="White"]............................[/COLOR][B][U]1990[/U][/B]

Kobe Bryant..................... Michael Jordan................ Michael Jordan
Dwayne Wade.................. Clyde Drexler.................. Clyde Drexler
Manu Ginobili................... Mitch Richmond............... Joe Dumars
Ray Allen......................... Reggie Miller.................. Reggie Miller
Vince Carter......................Eddie Jones.................... Mitch Richmond
Michael Redd.................... Allan Houston................. Ronaldo Blackmon
Jason Richardson............... Nick Anderson................ Ron Harper
Richard Hamilton............... Latrell Sprewell.............. Alvin Robertson
Joe Johnson...................... Jim Jackson................... Dale Ellis
Mike Miller....................... Steve Smith................... Hersey Hawkins
Bonzi Wells....................... Kendall Gill.................... Fat Lever
Jamal Crawford................. Isiah Rider.................... Jeff Hornacek
Morris Peterson................. Bobby Phills................... Ricky Pierce
Leandro Barbosa................ Jerry Stackhouse............ Jeff Malone


With no spacing in previous eras, the option of running offense to shift the spaced-out defenders and get an open shot wasn't available, so players had to settle for contested shots more often.. When teams don't run as much offense and settle for contested shots instead, pace and shot volume increase.

The volume shooting associated with 2-pointer basketball and the wider repertoires needed to navigate defenders in closer proximity enabled previous era wings to put more pressure on defenders than today's wings - higher volume and wider repertoires meant previous eras wings were more of a threat to have a big game than today's 3-and-D players.

Otoh, today's game requires a slower pace - the spacing necessitates running more offense to shift the spaced-out defenders and set up open 3-point looks.. Also, smaller offensive repertoires are necessary for the wider lanes provided by 3-point shooting and spacing-out environments.. Naturally, it's not surprise that today's 3-and-D wings are less of a threat to go off for a big game and pose less of a threat individually to the defense.. Again, this is in contrast to the [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37][u][I]more diverse mid-range games[/I][/u][/url] of previous eras, [I][I]which enabled repeated contested shots[/I][/I] and therefore less time-consuming offense.
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[IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/qovipv.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Lebron23][IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/qovipv.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll:

2006 >>>


Why are you using '97? Why not '95 or '96?

[QUOTE=aj1987]:roll: :roll:

2006 >>>


Why are you using '97? Why not '95 or '96?[/QUOTE]
1997 is a strong guard year.. including [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=354794][u]point guards[/u][/url].

So 1997 can match 2006, but again, I think 1990 clearly reaches a higher level of two-way ability than either.. Comparing the [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353319][u]forwards[/u][/url] is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=3ball]1997 is a strong guard year.. including [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=354794][u]point guards[/u][/url].

So 1997 can match 2006, but again, I think 1990 clearly reaches a higher level of two-way ability than either.. Comparing the [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353319][u]forwards[/u][/url] is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
See, that's why you're a cherry picking retard. The '00's were consistently good with F's and G's. More so than the '90's. That's why you resort to using single years. Otherwise everyone would see your posts (they still do) for the garbage they are.

[QUOTE=aj1987]See, that's why you're a cherry picking retard. The '00's were consistently good with F's and G's. More so than the '90's. That's why you resort to using single years. Otherwise everyone would see your posts (they still do) for the garbage they are.[/QUOTE]
It's not cherry-picking because I'm using the [I]supposed strongest year[/I] of modern SG's of 2006, and exposing the myth of new fans who it's the best SG class.

Ditto on point guards - I'm using the strongest year (2014 or this year) and comparing it to a reasonably strong year from a prior era - however, I do think 2014 has the distinct edge at PG.. But at virtually every other position, they're well behind.
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[QUOTE=3ball]It's not cherry-picking because I'm using the [I]supposed strongest year[/I] of modern SG's of 2006, and exposing the myth of new fans who it's the best SG class.

Ditto on point guards - I'm using the strongest year (2014 or this year) and comparing it to a reasonably strong year from a prior era.. With regards to PG's, I do think 2014 has the distinct edge.. But at virtually every other position, they are well behind.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

God, you're dumb. Kobe played a shit ton years against ELITE competition at his position. More than MJ.

[QUOTE=aj1987]

[SIZE="4"]Kobe played against ELITE competition at his position. More than MJ.[/SIZE]

[/QUOTE]
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[B]Kobe's Best Defenders (All-NBA Defense Only)[/B]

Shawn Marion
Andre Igoudala
Paul George
Gerald Wallace
Bruce Bowen
Tayshaun Prince
Andrei Kirelinko
Lebron James
Jimmy Butler
Luol Deng
Ron Artest
Thabo Sefalosha
Raja Bell
Tony Allen
Shane Battier
Dwayne Wade
Doug Christie
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Larry Hughes



[B]MJ's Best Defenders (All-NBA Defense Only)[/B]

[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858][u]Dennis Rodman[/u][/url]
Gary Payton
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376404][u]Michael Cooper[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10536861&postcount=264][u]Derrick McKey[/u][/url]
Ronaldo Blackman
Alvin Robertson
Sidney Moncrief
Eddie Jones
John Starks
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg][u]Shawn Marion[/u][/url]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xca8mjSzjIo&t=0m28s][u]Doug Christie[/u][/url]
Clifford Robinson
Anthony Mason
Nate McMillan
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352753][u]Kevin Garnett[/u][/url]
Dan Majerle
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvquD3ktNbQ][u]Latrell Sprewell[/u][/url]
Joe Dumars
Dennis Johnson
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FERPEtMYpes][u]Jason Kidd[/u][/url]
Bobby Phills



[B]MJ's Best Two-Way Opponents:[/B]

[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24][u]Penny Hardaway[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322][u]Grant Hill[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365450][u]Kobe Bryant[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695321&postcount=8][u]Clyde Drexler[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744903&postcount=25][u]Dominique Wilkins[/u][/url]
Ron Harper
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=373989][u]Reggie Lewis[/u][/url]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOJQOMEJ4Y][u]Ray Allen[/u][/url]
Sean Elliot
Michael Finley
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744186&postcount=18][u]Kendall Gill[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30][u]Richard Dumas[/u][/url]
Nick Anderson
Jerry Stackhouse


Also, the list above doesn't include many of the tremendous offensive wings that MJ faced including: Dr. J, James Worthy, Bernard King, Mitch Richmond, Alex English, Glenn Robinson, Jamaal Mashburn, Detlef Schrempf, Chris Mullin, Larry Bird, Fat Lever, Jeff Hornacek, Allan Houston, Jeff Malone, Glen Rice, [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360034][u]Kiki Vandeweghe[/u][/url]
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Revised list:

Shawn Marion
Andre Igoudala
Paul George
Gerald Wallace
Bruce Bowen
Tayshaun Prince
Andrei Kirelinko
Lebron James
Jimmy Butler
Luol Deng
Ron Artest
Thabo Sefalosha
Raja Bell
Tony Allen
Shane Battier
Chris Paul
Kevin Garnett
Dwyane Wade
Rajon Rondo
Kirk Hinrich
Jason Kidd
Chauncey Billups
Larry Hughes
Eric Snow
Doug Christie
Gary Payton
Scottie Pippen
Michael Jordan
Dennis Rodman (was All-D during Kobe's rookie season)

Also, since we're including PF's, lets add KG and Timmy to Kobe's list.

So, in all, Kobe played against 29 All-Defensive team members. MJ? 17. :oldlol:

EDIT: How the **** did you miss Wade and Kidd, you chipmunk?

[QUOTE=aj1987]

Also, since we're including PF's, lets add KG and Timmy to Kobe's list.

[/QUOTE]
We're talking wing players - SG's and SF's only, and only All-NBA defenders.. No point guards, PF's, or non-All-NBA.. no stiffs.. you added a bunch of trolly stiffs to your list.

Garnett was included on the previous era list because he played SF the entire 2002 season, as did MJ, and the two were matched up head-to-head in their first meeting.. 38-year-old MJ destroyed a prime KG, so it was material.. Otoh, Kobe never played SF and was never matched up head-to-head with KG.
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[QUOTE=3ball]We're talking wing players - SG's and SF's only, and only All-NBA defenders.. No point guards, PF's, or non-All-NBA.. no stiffs.. you added a bunch of trolly stiffs to your list.

Garnett was included on the previous era list because he played SF the entire 2002 season, as did MJ, and the two were matched up head-to-head in their first meeting.. 38-year-old MJ destroyed a prime KG, so it was material.. Otoh, Kobe never played SF and was never matched up head-to-head with KG.

You shouldn't be surprised the previous era wing and big men were so much better.. Faster pace/volume shooting is enabled when teams are willing to settle for contested shots and not run as much offense (as the elite mid-range repertoires of previous era wings allowed, while 3-point shooting requires running offense)..

The volume shooting of 2-pointer basketball and the superior repertoires needed to navigate no-spacing afforded previous era wings the capacity to have big scoring games far more often, thus putting greater pressure on defenses than today's 3-and-D wing.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:

You're an idiot.

Kobe faced better competition and that a [B]FACT[/B]. He destroyed [B]29[/B] All-D players. MJ? [B]17[/B].

[QUOTE=aj1987]

You're an idiot.

Kobe faced better competition and that a [B]FACT[/B]. He destroyed [B]29[/B] All-D players. MJ? [B]17[/B].

[/QUOTE]
Your list includes small point guards and PF's that never guarded Kobe heads-up for any material amount of time.

I can include Shawn Kemp, Larry Nance, Ray Richardson, Mookie Blaylock, TJ Dunn, Otis Thorpe, [url=http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_Blows_By_Robert_a06301d352c7c9a7a2653e80f329d83b.gif][u]Robert Horry[/u][/url], David Robinson, Derek Harper, and tons of guys, but an ACCURATE list would be the guys that actually spent a material amount of time guarding MJ heads-up - that's what the OP list shows.
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Where's Allen Iverson? Wait, it's a 3ball thread, nevermind.

[QUOTE=3ball]Your list includes small point guards and PF's that never guarded Kobe heads-up for any material amount of time.

I can include Shawn Kemp, Larry Nance, Ray Richardson, Mookie Blaylock, TJ Dunn, Otis Thorpe, [url=http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_Blows_By_Robert_a06301d352c7c9a7a2653e80f329d83b.gif][u]Robert Horry[/u][/url], David Robinson, Derek Harper, and tons of guys, but an ACCURATE list would be the guys that actually spent a material amount of time guarding MJ heads-up - that's what the OP list shows.[/QUOTE]
29 All-Defensive players vs 17. Dat weak ass cream puff era doe. :roll:

[QUOTE=Genaro]Where's Allen Iverson? Wait, it's a 3ball thread, nevermind.[/QUOTE]
He played PG in 2006, just like Penny Hardaway did in 1997.

Tmac played SF in 2006, just like Grant Hill did in 1997.