Team possessions per game (pace) divided by team apg = possesions per assist

.

[b][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="3"]Possessions per assist[/SIZE][/COLOR] (higher number means less passing):[/B]


[I]2014 Heat[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.05[/COLOR]
[I]2013 Heat[/I]: [COLOR="green"]3.94[/COLOR]
[I]2012 Heat[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.56[/COLOR]
[I]2011 Heat[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.55[/COLOR]
____________________
[I]2010 Heat[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.75[/COLOR]
[I]2009 Heat[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.41[/COLOR]
[I]2008 Heat[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.50[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Avg. with LeBron:[/COLOR] [COLOR="Green"]4.27[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Green"]Without LeBron:[/COLOR] [COLOR="Green"]4.55[/COLOR]
____________________
[B]0.18 improvement[/B]



[I]2014 Cavs[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.41[/COLOR]
[I]2013 Cavs[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.47[/COLOR]
[I]2012 Cavs[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.61[/COLOR]
[I]2011 Cavs[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.43[/COLOR]
_____________________
[I]2010 Cavs[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.08[/COLOR]
[I]2009 Cavs[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.37[/COLOR]
[I]2008 Cavs[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.51[/COLOR]
[I]2007 Cavs[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.37[/COLOR]
[I]2006 Cavs[/I]: [COLOR="green"]4.72[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]With LeBron:[/COLOR] [COLOR="Green"]4.41[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Green"]Without LeBron:[/COLOR] [COLOR="Green"]4.48[/COLOR]
___________________
[B]0.07 improvement[/B]



[I]1998 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.74[/COLOR]
[I]1997 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.45[/COLOR]
[I]1996 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.67[/COLOR]
[I]1993 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.56[/COLOR]
[I]1992 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.40[/COLOR]
[I]1991 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.54[/COLOR]
[I]1990 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.65[/COLOR]
[I]1989 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.59[/COLOR]
[I]1988 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.65[/COLOR]
[I]1987 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.67[/COLOR]
[I]1985 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]4.09[/COLOR]
____________________
[I]1984 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.91[/COLOR]
[I]1983 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]4.18[/COLOR]
[I]1982 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.98[/COLOR]
[I]1981 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]4.28[/COLOR]
[I]1980 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.89[/COLOR]
[I]1979 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.88[/COLOR]
[I]1978 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]3.93[/COLOR]
[I]1977 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]4.12[/COLOR]
[I]1976 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]4.82[/COLOR]
[I]1975 Bulls[/I]: [COLOR="Blue"]4.45[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"]With MJ:[/COLOR] [COLOR="blue"]3.64[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]Without MJ:[/COLOR] [COLOR="blue"]4.14[/COLOR]
___________________
[B]0.50 improvement[/B]



[I]2015 GSW[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 98.3/27.4 = [COLOR="Magenta"]3.59[/COLOR]
[I]2014 Spurs[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.0/25.2 = [COLOR="Magenta"]3.77[/COLOR]
[I]2011 Mavs[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 91.3/23.8 = [COLOR="Magenta"]3.84[/COLOR]
[I]2007 Spurs[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 89.8/22.1 = [COLOR="Magenta"]4.06[/COLOR]

[I]1987 Lakers[/I]: 101.6/29.6 = [COLOR="darkgreen"]3.43[/COLOR]
[I]1986 Celtics[/I]: 102.1/29.1 = [COLOR="darkgreen"]3.47[/COLOR]

[I]Source: basketball-reference.com[/I]



[I]starting fives normally have only 1 ball-dominant, low-assisted player that teammates rarely throw assists to - the point guard.. But Lebron's point guard style from the forward position adds a [I]2nd[/I] low-assisted player that teammates can't throw assists to - he turns a normally high assisted forward position into a low assisted one, which lowers the assist capacity of the team relative to other teams whose forwards are highly-assisted.. Not surprisingly, Lebron's presence as an additional, low-assisted player didn't materially improve the [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385446]assist frequency[/url] of his Heat and Cavs teams.. Otoh, MJ was a highly-assisted, off-ball player, so his presence significantly increased the assist frequency of his teams, as the data linked above shows.

The Heat's possessions per assist only improved (declined) 0.18 during the Lebron years, and the Cavs didn't improve at all, only 0.07... Otoh, the Bulls improved exactly 0.50 during the MJ years.. They went frorm 4.14 without MJ, to 3.64 with MJ.

Clearly, MJ improved the Bulls passing a lot, while Lebron didn't improve the Cavs at all, and his Heat barely improved.. (Bosh being moved to 3-point shooter and the addition of Ray Allen made the difference in 2013 and 2014).[/I]

No wonder MJ's role players never underperformed - his relentless off-ball game made it easier for teammates to playmake.


[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-16-2015/NlRpyo.gif[/IMG]

I agree, bron sucks but im a big fan so this opinion is unbiased

Cold Hard Facts.

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

That's hard to argue against. Lebron the ball dominator.

3ball would be better off suited on RealGM, some of the stuff he posts are truly debatable in the context of the whole history of basketball teams, people on ISH will always just turn it to Jordan vs. Lebron.

Great post 3ball

the truth

I don't get it, all you did was prove the Bulls as a TEAM were better passers than Lebron's TEAMS. MJ had Pippen whom was a point forward to handle most of the PG and playmaking duties. Lebron has never had a teammate anywhere near his level as a passer or playmaker.

And before you pull the whole "Lebron is too ball dominant for anyone else to be a playmaker" bullshit out MJ has a higher usage percentage for his team than Lebron in both the regular season and playoffs.
So despite MJ haven't the ball in hands the most for the Bulls, he still is quite far off from having a higher assist percentage for his team than Bron does for his teams.

MJ is better offball, but Lebron is a better playmaker and passer, get over it.
The worst part is that all the idiot trolls in this thread blindly agree with you not knowing what you're talking about at all.

[QUOTE=Bankaii]I don't get it, all you did was prove the Bulls as a TEAM were better passers than Lebron's TEAMS. MJ had Pippen whom was a point forward to handle most of the PG and playmaking duties. Lebron has never had a teammate anywhere near his level as a passer or playmaker.

And before you pull the whole "Lebron is too ball dominant for anyone else to be a playmaker" bullshit out MJ has a higher usage percentage for his team than Lebron in both the regular season and playoffs.
So despite MJ haven't the ball in hands the most for the Bulls, he still is quite far off from having a higher assist percentage than Bron.

MJ is better offball, but Lebron is a better playmaker and passer, get over it.
The worst part is that all the idiot troll in this thread blindly agree with you not knowing what you're talking about at all.[/QUOTE]

The Bulls as a team were better passers than LeBron's team because LeBron's ball dominant style of play doesn't encourage a balanced offense with proper ball movement.

[QUOTE=warriorfan]The Bulls as a team were better passers than LeBron's team because LeBron's ball dominant style of play doesn't encourage a balanced offense with proper ball movement.[/QUOTE]
I already debunked that bullshit. Stick to sucking Curry's 0/11 dick you obviously can't have an intelligent basketball debate.

[QUOTE=Bankaii]I already debunked that bullshit. Stick to sucking Curry's 0/11 dick you obviously can't have an intelligent basketball debate.[/QUOTE]

Having a meltdown while we are having a mature basketball discussion isn't going to get you anywhere.

[QUOTE=Bankaii]I don't get it, all you did was prove the Bulls as a TEAM were better passers than Lebron's TEAMS. MJ had Pippen whom was a point forward to handle most of the PG and playmaking duties. [B]Lebron has never had a teammate anywhere near his level as a passer or playmaker.[/B]

And before you pull the whole "Lebron is too ball dominant for anyone else to be a playmaker" bullshit out MJ has a higher usage percentage for his team than Lebron in both the regular season and playoffs.
So despite MJ haven't the ball in hands the most for the Bulls, he still is quite far off from having a higher assist percentage for his team than Bron does for his teams.

MJ is better offball, but Lebron is a better playmaker and passer, get over it.
The worst part is that all the idiot trolls in this thread blindly agree with you not knowing what you're talking about at all.[/QUOTE]

:wtf:

Wade averages 6 apg for his career and is one of the best passing and playmaking SG's in history.

[QUOTE=GrapeApe]:wtf:

Wade averages 6 apg for his career and is one of the best passing and playmaking SG's in history.[/QUOTE]
Are you really arguing that Wade is as good of a playmaker as Pippen?

[QUOTE=Bankaii]Lebron has never had a teammate anywhere near his level as a passer or playmaker.
[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ci4n9kKtTFE/TxWl8Jcs1DI/AAAAAAAAE4s/J33s4SZ9dxc/s1600/heat-dwayne-wade-lebron-choke-funny-nba-photos-2012.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Bankaii]Are you really arguing that Wade is as good of a playmaker as Pippen?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59][IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ci4n9kKtTFE/TxWl8Jcs1DI/AAAAAAAAE4s/J33s4SZ9dxc/s1600/heat-dwayne-wade-lebron-choke-funny-nba-photos-2012.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
My goodness. For your sake let's say Wade is as good of a playmaker as Pippen (he isn't), that means both Lebron and Jordan had another playmaker on their team. Lebron only had Wade 4 years btw.

Care to explain why even tho Jordan had a higher usage rate his assist percentage for his team was lower than Lebron's if Lebron is so ball dominant?